Jerry Sandusky accused of child molestation (7 Viewers)

[crewmember]

I don't know that Joe knew about kids being raped over years. The one incident he heard about it he went to his boss's. The emails might change the whole context of that, like I said we are still learning things. I do feel awful for the victims, and I can also feel bad for a guy getting torched by the county, who may have not done anything wrong. While having doing many great things in his life.

Not sure why I can't feel bad for more then one person. The whole thing has been a sideshow from the beginning. The media was disgusting, covering 30 minutes on Paterno and then adding a line about how they were thinking of the victims. The story has been covered more about trying to tear down the famous guy then giving a flying #### about the victims.

I'm just trying to call it like I see it. For full disclsoure I hate Penn State, and have spent the past few years making fun of Paterno on Saturdays, about how he's just kind of there(and doesn't really coach anymore)

According to Joe, he heard about "something of a sexual nature" in a shower. If you have a grown man doing that with young boys, I'm sorry, telling one guy and then ignoring it while the guy sticks around and showers with other young boys is not enough. At all. This new email doesn't really change anything imo. From the beginning, it was clear they knew enough that they had to axe Sandusky from the team. Anything of a sexual nature with a young boy naked in the shower bad enough to get him axed from the team is bad enough to go to the authorities.

Let me get this straight. You feel bad for Joe Paterno? You have sympathy for him. Feel he was a victim. Something like that?

I agree, but just going with the facts before a couple days ago. Just trying to put myself in the guy's shoes. Some kid see's a crime, told me he saw something, I tell my boss's and tell the kid to talk to them. I would expect the witness or my boss's to report it to the police if it was worthy of doing so. I just hope I'm not held to such standards in my life, where I have to be the policeman of the world. If I'm Mcreery or the President I am definately going to the police. If I am the coach, I'm trying to beat Michigian on Saturday, I would expect the people around me to not be so stupid.

I really hope that you, or anybody else for that matter, would have the courage to do what Joe didn't have the courage to do. I hope you don't shrink from helping innocent boys getting raped, because if you hear about or witness something like that, you may not be the policeman of the world, but I think you have a responsibility as a human being to at the very least say something. It doesn't matter what your job title is. You make sure the cops know about it.Also, it's "bosses" - you will find some helpful information here

If it's a co-worker who was a witness and my bosses knew about it, not sure where my place is considering there was no specific crime reported. Sandusky probably told them he was horsing around. If I knew a kid was anally raped and nothing happened after awhile I would follow up with the police. Joe got some stupid explanation from Mcreery though, cause he didn't want to say dirty words in front of the old man.

 

[crewmember]

It's everybody's job to keep the world rape free, dude

I'm watching TV and don't feel like getting up. Tommorow is church day, so maybe I'll go snoop around there.

 

[fatness]

Here is an illustrative anecdote that ought to give you a sense of the man’s stature, influence, and judgment. Some years back, Penn State set out to cut its budget, and the authorities there decided to eliminate the classics department. When word reached Paterno, who had studied Latin assiduously in his youth at a Catholic high school, he made one public comment – that he did not want to coach at a university that had no classics department. Penn State backed off on its plans immediately; donors magically appeared eager to endow faculty lines in the classics department; and it is still there.

Pause and think about this. Where else in the United States would a coach be the defender of a university’s academic integrity? Where else would the administration and the faculty accede to a coach’s wishes in curricular matters? At Penn State, Paterno had authority – moral authority. He rarely asserted himself. But when he did and when he made a recommendation, the men to whom he reported did his bidding. The email exchange is clear. Tim Curley met with Joe Paterno, and everyone fell in line. They would take “a more humane” course, speak with Sandusky, and not report the incident.

Of course, the policy that had worked well in Paterno’s management of his team worked abysmally in this case. But it was obvious that it would. Sandusky had been involved in an earlier comparable incident. It had been handled in a similar fashion, and his predatory activity had continued. All four men involved -- Paterno, Curley, Schultz, and Spanier --knew this.

link

 

[NJDawgPound]

Anyone, I mean anyone, who defends anyone at PSU who knew of or witnessed Sandusky's behavior and did not immediately go to police needs to realize that this could have easily been their kid being sexually assaulted.

And yes, Paterno is a monster. He had more power than anyone and could have stopped this and protected the school's image at the same time. He covered up and more kids got abused after the fact.

 

[fatness]

Yeah that was my point. These particular emails were likely leaked intentionally since the heat will be turned up on all of them now that Sandusky has been dealt with. And it's what makes them all even more despicable. Now it's Curley's word vs. a dead guy.

That's inaccurate. Neither Curley nor Paterno said a word publicly about those emails.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

The only people singling Paterno out are the ones defending him. The rest of us think everyone who knew and covered this up are equally guilty. Also, the fact that he's dead doesn't matter at all.

This doesn't seem true at all. Since the story broke Paterno has been talked about as much as Sandusky himself. He's the only famous person involved in the story, thus has recieved all the venom even though many peoople involved did much worse.

Nobody's defending the other guys responsible for sweeping this under the rug, because none of those guys were involved with the precious football team. Take away the people who seem to think that the fact that he allowed children to be raped under his nose shouldn't define his legacy and I doubt he gets a lot more attention than any of the other administrators. "Aside from that one little thing, John Wilkes Booth was a great guy"



Paterno's legacy is that of a man who cared more about the reputation of his football program than he did innocent children who were getting raped in the showers of his very building. This isn't a one time mistake, either. This is something he's hidden and subsequently enabled for a decade that we know of, it could be even longer. That shows a complete lack of integrity. Whatever Paterno preached to his football players, it was just a show. Character and integrity are what you do when nobody's watching. When nobody was watching, those in charge at PSU decided on something so abhorrent I don't even want to think about it. Including everybody's precious football coach. Despite the fact that he won football games. We thought Paterno was a man of character and honor for a long time. He had us fooled, and the fact that he had us fooled for a long time doesn't change the legacy he left, which is what he truly is - a man who will look after his own self interests and protect his friend instead of protect innocent children.



If someone comes in here trying to defend any of the other administrators, we can have the same conversation about them. But as long as we've got people in here defending Paterno, I'll be happy to point out the fact that they're defending a spineless coward who was a selfish liar for years and years.

I know no one is defending the others involved, just that they don't constly get flinged #### at like Paterno does. To me, Mcreery and his dad are two of the stupidest people to walk the face of the earth. I guess I just have diffrent expectations for a coach of a football team then others do, when the witness, police, and presidents of the university can't get the job done my anger doesn't go towards the guy who's game planning for Nebraska on Saturday. New evidnce is coming out now which is changing my opinion quite a bit, but Paterno was being crucified way before this came out. Of course people will now claim they knew this is what happened, but in reality they had no idea.

No, we did know because McQueary stated he had told Paterno what he saw. Paterno is Penn State. There is no way this is happening for over a decade right in front of his eyes without him knowing.It's sad but Paterno was more interested in protacting his program and image than young boys. I'm truly sorry that many PSU fans hero turned out to be this kind of person but it's disgusting watching people point fingers at everyone but Paterno. Probably because most fans don't care what happens to the A.D. or President but leave their damn football program alone. Sad.

 

[the moops]

The one incident he heard about it he went to his boss's.

Seriously, who the #### does this? What the hell does his boss have to do with a kid getting raped?I hear someone is fondling little kids in my workplace, my first move is to call the police. My second move is to watch the mother ####er every step he takes when he is in the workplace with me. My third step is to tell everyone I know to watch the dude and make sure their kids are not left alone with him. My fourth step is me telling my boss that he needs to fire the dude immediately.Nowhere in my thinking is, hey let me tell my boss what happened and I'll let them decide what to do. ####### despicable.

 

[ICON211]

Enough with referring to Peterno as just the football coach. He had more power than anyone else at the university and his "boss" the AD was supposedly his handpicked choice. The reason he is getting a lot of blame is because he was the one with the most power and influence.

 

[Sea Duck]

If it's a co-worker who was a witness and my bosses knew about it, not sure where my place is considering there was no specific crime reported.

If you don't think that "sexual fondling" of a little boy qualifies as a specific crime, then you are as morally inept as Paterno.

 

[Short Corner]

I just hope I'm not held to such standards in my life

Pretty sure the world be a better place if you aren't.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Nothing much to say here. Assuming the emails and context are true when the investigation is complete and released, it's a sad day for everyone. I do find a sad irony in this whole thing. At the beginning of the thread, almost all the anger at Paterno is based on the "he just reported it to Curley and then did nothing" angle. If this leak is true than I wish that HAD been all he did. :(

 

[crewmember]

The one incident he heard about it he went to his boss's.

Seriously, who the #### does this? What the hell does his boss have to do with a kid getting raped?I hear someone is fondling little kids in my workplace, my first move is to call the police. My second move is to watch the mother ####er every step he takes when he is in the workplace with me. My third step is to tell everyone I know to watch the dude and make sure their kids are not left alone with him. My fourth step is me telling my boss that he needs to fire the dude immediately.Nowhere in my thinking is, hey let me tell my boss what happened and I'll let them decide what to do. ####### despicable.

Mcreery watered down what happened to Paterno. If someone at a bar said he witnessed something this, and then he went to managment of the bar, I would assume it would be resolved without my intervention.I really need to stop arguing this honestly, because the new emails change my opinion big time. Before I wasn't ready to make assumptions without evidence. I just think that before this people on here were being overly harsh to anyone that said anything nice about Paterno. People should be able to disagree without someone being treated like they are the devil. I'll stop now because I'm starting to join the Anti-Paterno crowd, so at this point I'm arguing just for the sake of arguing if I continue.

 

[crewmember]

Enough with referring to Peterno as just the football coach. He had more power than anyone else at the university and his "boss" the AD was supposedly his handpicked choice. The reason he is getting a lot of blame is because he was the one with the most power and influence.

I understand this but it's no excuse, the president and AD need to do to their job. I know he had a lot of pull at PSU but I don't think he was very interested in dealing with that sort of thing. There's a difference between having a lot of pull and doing everything in the AD and president's job description. This was probably something Joe didn't want to deal with and wanted his "bosses" to take care of it. Now if he convinced them to go against reporting it to authorities, then that of course is a very serious and bad thing he did.

 

[crewmember]

The emails throw plausible deniability out the window. There's nothing left worth defending.

Yes if this is true, I am doing no defending of the coach. Still weak moral courage for the higher ups to cave but Joe will have deserved the venom thrown his way.

 

[crewmember]

The only people singling Paterno out are the ones defending him. The rest of us think everyone who knew and covered this up are equally guilty. Also, the fact that he's dead doesn't matter at all.

This doesn't seem true at all. Since the story broke Paterno has been talked about as much as Sandusky himself. He's the only famous person involved in the story, thus has recieved all the venom even though many peoople involved did much worse.

Nobody's defending the other guys responsible for sweeping this under the rug, because none of those guys were involved with the precious football team. Take away the people who seem to think that the fact that he allowed children to be raped under his nose shouldn't define his legacy and I doubt he gets a lot more attention than any of the other administrators. "Aside from that one little thing, John Wilkes Booth was a great guy"



Paterno's legacy is that of a man who cared more about the reputation of his football program than he did innocent children who were getting raped in the showers of his very building. This isn't a one time mistake, either. This is something he's hidden and subsequently enabled for a decade that we know of, it could be even longer. That shows a complete lack of integrity. Whatever Paterno preached to his football players, it was just a show. Character and integrity are what you do when nobody's watching. When nobody was watching, those in charge at PSU decided on something so abhorrent I don't even want to think about it. Including everybody's precious football coach. Despite the fact that he won football games. We thought Paterno was a man of character and honor for a long time. He had us fooled, and the fact that he had us fooled for a long time doesn't change the legacy he left, which is what he truly is - a man who will look after his own self interests and protect his friend instead of protect innocent children.



If someone comes in here trying to defend any of the other administrators, we can have the same conversation about them. But as long as we've got people in here defending Paterno, I'll be happy to point out the fact that they're defending a spineless coward who was a selfish liar for years and years.

I know no one is defending the others involved, just that they don't constly get flinged #### at like Paterno does. To me, Mcreery and his dad are two of the stupidest people to walk the face of the earth. I guess I just have diffrent expectations for a coach of a football team then others do, when the witness, police, and presidents of the university can't get the job done my anger doesn't go towards the guy who's game planning for Nebraska on Saturday. New evidnce is coming out now which is changing my opinion quite a bit, but Paterno was being crucified way before this came out. Of course people will now claim they knew this is what happened, but in reality they had no idea.

The facts seem to contradict this line of reasoning. I think most people had exactly the right idea of what happened, while a minority of people deluded themselves that it wasn't exactly as bad (or worse) than it initially appeared.

Fair enough, agree to disagree. There's no way to prove it either way. I think it was a witch hunt because of his celeberity status with the facts that were presented at the time. I respect your opinion, I guess manybe I took more of an innocent until proven guilty mentaility. There was no reason for me to delude myself, I've made fun of Paterono's "coaching" for the last 10 years and would love to rub it into my PSU friends who love to boast about the school's moral character.

 

[the moops]

This was probably something Joe didn't want to deal with and wanted his "bosses" to take care of it.

What a terrible copout.I imagine if everyone had the choice, they would choose to not have to deal with a pedophile working underneath them. However, your choice in the matter goes away once you gain knowledge of it. It is something that is not just passed up the chain of command.

 

[crewmember]

I just hope I'm not held to such standards in my life

I still can't believe this comment. You hope that nobody would expect you to turn in a child rapist. You hope that if you have the power to stop the sexual torture of a child that nobody would expect you to raise a finger. That you should be able to go about your business and hope someone else deals with the hard problem. Ick.

Unreal, whenever you disagree on this site you get painted as the Devil. Of course I would report child rape, my point was there was already a witnesses and Presidents of the University that were aware of the incident that I did not witness. I don't watch the news at 6pm and then call the police on every crime they just reported.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I just hope I'm not held to such standards in my life

I still can't believe this comment. You hope that nobody would expect you to turn in a child rapist. You hope that if you have the power to stop the sexual torture of a child that nobody would expect you to raise a finger. That you should be able to go about your business and hope someone else deals with the hard problem. Ick.

Unreal, whenever you disagree on this site you get painted as the Devil. Of course I would report child rape, my point was there was already a witnesses and Presidents of the University that were aware of the incident that I did not witness. I don't watch the news at 6pm and then call the police on every crime they just reported.

Just stop

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I just hope I'm not held to such standards in my life

I still can't believe this comment. You hope that nobody would expect you to turn in a child rapist. You hope that if you have the power to stop the sexual torture of a child that nobody would expect you to raise a finger. That you should be able to go about your business and hope someone else deals with the hard problem. Ick.

Unreal, whenever you disagree on this site you get painted as the Devil. Of course I would report child rape, my point was there was already a witnesses and Presidents of the University that were aware of the incident that I did not witness. I don't watch the news at 6pm and then call the police on every crime they just reported.

Just stop

Please make him stop.

 

[crewmember]

The only people singling Paterno out are the ones defending him. The rest of us think everyone who knew and covered this up are equally guilty. Also, the fact that he's dead doesn't matter at all.

This doesn't seem true at all. Since the story broke Paterno has been talked about as much as Sandusky himself. He's the only famous person involved in the story, thus has recieved all the venom even though many peoople involved did much worse.

This is just insane to me. It's incredible the lengths some people are going to excuse those who enabled a child predator. There seem to be two kinds of people: Those who understand the magnitude of what occurred here, and those who don't. It's sickening to me that the latter group exists, and I think it's safe to assume that if you belong in that category you're of the same ilk of those who thought this was not that big of a deal and could be swept under the rug.

Ham I respected your 2nd post after this, but this was unfair. If I had my the FBI would bust into the Catholic Church and have free reign to investigate anything they wanted. It infuriates me how the church operates like organized crime or the mafia with all the protection they get. I also want to see the higher ups at PSU to be proscuted for purjy and anything else to the fullest extent of the law. Ironically, I think the bashing of Paterno takes away from the focus of the victims and that this story wouldn't be nearly as big if it didn't involve him and a huge university. Incredibly uncalled for just because we disagreed on the responsibily of one man.

 

[crewmember]

I just hope I'm not held to such standards in my life

I still can't believe this comment. You hope that nobody would expect you to turn in a child rapist. You hope that if you have the power to stop the sexual torture of a child that nobody would expect you to raise a finger. That you should be able to go about your business and hope someone else deals with the hard problem. Ick.

Unreal, whenever you disagree on this site you get painted as the Devil. Of course I would report child rape, my point was there was already a witnesses and Presidents of the University that were aware of the incident that I did not witness. I don't watch the news at 6pm and then call the police on every crime they just reported.

Just stop

Please make him stop.

yea, such a conterversial statement You guys accuse me of condoning child rape and I'm the one that should stop.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I just hope I'm not held to such standards in my life

I still can't believe this comment. You hope that nobody would expect you to turn in a child rapist. You hope that if you have the power to stop the sexual torture of a child that nobody would expect you to raise a finger. That you should be able to go about your business and hope someone else deals with the hard problem. Ick.

Unreal, whenever you disagree on this site you get painted as the Devil. Of course I would report child rape, my point was there was already a witnesses and Presidents of the University that were aware of the incident that I did not witness. I don't watch the news at 6pm and then call the police on every crime they just reported.

Just stop

Please make him stop.

yea, such a conterversial statement You guys accuse me of condoning child rape and I'm the one that should stop.

Its not from 1 single post, and you know it. There is no excuse for JoPa not doing everything possible (including taking the matter into his own hands with a baseball bat) to stop that problem. None.

 

[Smack Tripper]

The only people singling Paterno out are the ones defending him. The rest of us think everyone who knew and covered this up are equally guilty. Also, the fact that he's dead doesn't matter at all.

This doesn't seem true at all. Since the story broke Paterno has been talked about as much as Sandusky himself. He's the only famous person involved in the story, thus has recieved all the venom even though many peoople involved did much worse.

Nobody's defending the other guys responsible for sweeping this under the rug, because none of those guys were involved with the precious football team. Take away the people who seem to think that the fact that he allowed children to be raped under his nose shouldn't define his legacy and I doubt he gets a lot more attention than any of the other administrators. "Aside from that one little thing, John Wilkes Booth was a great guy"



Paterno's legacy is that of a man who cared more about the reputation of his football program than he did innocent children who were getting raped in the showers of his very building. This isn't a one time mistake, either. This is something he's hidden and subsequently enabled for a decade that we know of, it could be even longer. That shows a complete lack of integrity. Whatever Paterno preached to his football players, it was just a show. Character and integrity are what you do when nobody's watching. When nobody was watching, those in charge at PSU decided on something so abhorrent I don't even want to think about it. Including everybody's precious football coach. Despite the fact that he won football games. We thought Paterno was a man of character and honor for a long time. He had us fooled, and the fact that he had us fooled for a long time doesn't change the legacy he left, which is what he truly is - a man who will look after his own self interests and protect his friend instead of protect innocent children.



If someone comes in here trying to defend any of the other administrators, we can have the same conversation about them. But as long as we've got people in here defending Paterno, I'll be happy to point out the fact that they're defending a spineless coward who was a selfish liar for years and years.

I know no one is defending the others involved, just that they don't constly get flinged #### at like Paterno does. To me, Mcreery and his dad are two of the stupidest people to walk the face of the earth. I guess I just have diffrent expectations for a coach of a football team then others do, when the witness, police, and presidents of the university can't get the job done my anger doesn't go towards the guy who's game planning for Nebraska on Saturday. New evidnce is coming out now which is changing my opinion quite a bit, but Paterno was being crucified way before this came out. Of course people will now claim they knew this is what happened, but in reality they had no idea.

The facts seem to contradict this line of reasoning. I think most people had exactly the right idea of what happened, while a minority of people deluded themselves that it wasn't exactly as bad (or worse) than it initially appeared.

Fair enough, agree to disagree. There's no way to prove it either way. I think it was a witch hunt because of his celeberity status with the facts that were presented at the time. I respect your opinion, I guess manybe I took more of an innocent until proven guilty mentaility. There was no reason for me to delude myself, I've made fun of Paterono's "coaching" for the last 10 years and would love to rub it into my PSU friends who love to boast about the school's moral character.

I think you are confusing concepts of a "witch hunt" and an event so strange and out of character involving a person, the divide itself becomes news. A witch hunt is a situation like OJ Simpson's subsequent legal problems, or the Wikileaks guy being arrested or Barry Bonds or Clemens roid cases. Guys that annoyed and seemed like they were doing "wrong" even though we had next to parameter by which to frame a "wrong" in a legal sense around their conduct.

Paterno was certainly a galvanizing character in his heyday, but largely revered by most inside of the insular community of college football. I don't think people eyed Joe as doing something wrong and were just waiting to nail him on SOMETHING. Some were, but most were not I would say.

The difference is, this is news, in the strictest sense of dog bites man vs. man bites dog. When you not only position yourself as paragon of virtue but also use the example of yourself and "your" program as a guide to "how things are done". When a moral crusader gets caught associated with something immoral, then it is by definition, news worthy. And a scandal of this sort is unprecedented to my recollection in college football, a notoriously down and dirty business.

Add to this, the fact that his choice of action, which was inaction, created really incalculable harm to who knows how many more children with ten years of free reign when there was every reason to believe something was askew.

There are so many simple course of of action that could have done much to redeem Paterno.

-pursue police action- the obviously advisable course

-push for a removal from the PSU community- a choice that would have been pushing the problem off but at least have in a public way put forth a message of non-support

-allowed Sandusky access but forbid him to bring children to the facility

I think THAT last point is the most sickening aspect. I don't agree with inaction, because having been around teachers grown up that we made jokes about being kid touchers and were later revealed to be so, I find it hard to believe the jokes and whispers of a community wouldn't echo and the concept that Jerry might be a little "too friendly" is hardly a thought that would have emerged in 2001 or even 1998 but in time well before that. But that's speculation. You know about these allegations, and if you want to live in denial, I think there is a great human capacity for that, look at the guy's wife. But even in a state of denial, to know what was alleged, even in a whisper, to let this guy bring kids around PSU, and in effect, use it as bait or a lure for the children, to let this guy take kids on bowl trips and road trips, JFC, I'm revolted just thinking about it.

You can not possibly put for a justification for allowing THAT to happen.

I get that Joe is an old school ginzo from New York, and may well live with a "credo" of don't rat on your friends (although I don't think this sort of conduct was covered in that maxim). You can do a whole lot between not "ratting" and at least throwing a major roadblock so this sort of behavior doesn't happen in your world.

 

[Sea Duck]

Mcreery watered down what happened to Paterno.

First off, if you want people to think that you know what you're talking about, you should at least know the names of the people you're talking about.Secondly, why does it matter if Mike McQueary's description was "watered down" or not? The 'watered down' description was so heinous that Paterno should have called the cops immediately. Here's how McQueary described it to Paterno: "Jerry Sandusky fondling a young boy in the shower. It was of a sexual nature. It was inappropriate."

How can you justify NOT calling the police after being told that??

 

[drfeelgood]

Add to this, the fact that his choice of action, which was inaction, created really incalculable harm to who knows how many more children with ten years of free reign when there was every reason to believe something was askew.

The harm could have been stopped four years prior to the Penn State shower incident that McQueary witnessed. DA Ray Gricar could have pressed charges against Sandusky in 1998 after a boy told his mother and police that he showered with Sandusky, but Gricar decided not to press charges. He never explained why, but he disappeared in 2005, so it's a mystery. He set up a sting at the boy's house, and Sandusky asked the mother for forgiveness saying,"I understand. I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness from you. I know I won't get it from you. I wish I were dead." Two years after this in 2000 a Penn State janitor told his co-workers he saw Sandusky sexually assaulting a boy in the shower. A lot of people failed to stop the abuse.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Add to this, the fact that his choice of action, which was inaction, created really incalculable harm to who knows how many more children with ten years of free reign when there was every reason to believe something was askew.

The harm could have been stopped four years prior to the Penn State shower incident that McQueary witnessed. DA Ray Gricar could have pressed charges against Sandusky in 1998 after a boy told his mother and police that he showered with Sandusky, but Gricar decided not to press charges. He never explained why, but he disappeared in 2005, so it's a mystery. He set up a sting at the boy's house, and Sandusky asked the mother for forgiveness saying,"I understand. I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness from you. I know I won't get it from you. I wish I were dead." Two years after this in 2000 a Penn State janitor told his co-workers he saw Sandusky sexually assaulting a boy in the shower. A lot of people failed to stop the abuse.

No doubt, but my thoughts were confined to giving Paterno specifically every possible benefit of the doubt within the strains of reason. You can't tell me people at that charity didn't know things were squirrely in a time frame you suggest.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Not saying JoPa hands are cleaned, but he did a lot of good for that University area and that you cannot just forget.

Not saying Jerry Sandusky's hands are cleaned, but he did a lot of good for that University area and that you cannot just forget. By your logic.

You cannot be that stupid. Unless your saying that JoPA is the one who committed this crime?

I don't know PA law, but if Paterno covered up for a child molester, he may very well have committed a crime. In many states, people like Paterno would be legally required to report abuse of children (including sexual abuse, obviously) to law enforcement.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

On a side note, how can you rise to the level of senior administration at a major research university and still be stupid enough to talk about your plan to cover up serial child molestation via email? These people should all have the BAs and PhDs revoked.

 

[Dragons]

Not saying JoPa hands are cleaned, but he did a lot of good for that University area and that you cannot just forget.

Not saying Jerry Sandusky's hands are cleaned, but he did a lot of good for that University area and that you cannot just forget. By your logic.

You cannot be that stupid. Unless your saying that JoPA is the one who committed this crime?

I don't know PA law, but if Paterno covered up for a child molester, he may very well have committed a crime. In many states, people like Paterno would be legally required to report abuse of children (including sexual abuse, obviously) to law enforcement.

The law requires someone to report suspected abuse to either the appropriate authorities, or your superiors. Many claimed Paterno did enough by telling McQueary to report it to the president, claiming that was the end of his involvement in the matter. If that were true, it may have been enough by law, but many of us said it's not enough as a human being. Of course, most of us weren't gullible enough to think that Paterno's involvement ended there, given his stature at the university.

 

[fatness]

Unreal, whenever you disagree on this site you get painted as the Devil. Of course I would report child rape, my point was there was already a witnesses and Presidents of the University that were aware of the incident that I did not witness.

Your point is that everyone above Paterno and below Paterno had the responsibility to do something. And that Paterno did not. We get it.

 

[crewmember]

Unreal, whenever you disagree on this site you get painted as the Devil. Of course I would report child rape, my point was there was already a witnesses and Presidents of the University that were aware of the incident that I did not witness.

Your point is that everyone above Paterno and below Paterno had the responsibility to do something. And that Paterno did not. We get it.

Many had a lot greater responsibilty, and if they did their job it would be a non-issue. It didn't work out that way, and Joe spent his last days with regret that he hadn't done more. My point is that anyone on here that says anything positive at all about Joe's life or points out that he was far down the list on accountability, gets their head torn off. There's more venom in here for Joe then Sandusky, McQueery, his father, the DA, the PSU presidents, and Sandusky's supposedly deaf wife. Since the beginning this story broke, you would think Joe was in there raping the kids himself. The media wouldn't have covered the story nearly as much as they did if there weren't the Paterno side story.

 

[Billy Bats]

On a side note, how can you rise to the level of senior administration at a major research university and still be stupid enough to talk about your plan to cover up serial child molestation via email? These people should all have the BAs and PhDs revoked.

Been thinking that too. They should've done like Big Paulie and have runners talking over pay phones.

 

[crewmember]

By the way, I am going to court with an angry guy who on a golf course pushed me down and threatened to kill me. It would be more conveniant for me to just let it go but I believe the guy may end up hurting someone. And I did think about the Paterno situation, and that it would be the right thing for me to press charges. Just to let you know, for people that may think I'm the devil.

 

[crewmember]

Mcreery watered down what happened to Paterno.

First off, if you want people to think that you know what you're talking about, you should at least know the names of the people you're talking about.Secondly, why does it matter if Mike McQueary's description was "watered down" or not? The 'watered down' description was so heinous that Paterno should have called the cops immediately. Here's how McQueary described it to Paterno: "Jerry Sandusky fondling a young boy in the shower. It was of a sexual nature. It was inappropriate."

How can you justify NOT calling the police after being told that??

Why did MCQUEARY not go to the police, or his dad? Why not the administartion who are the superiors, who are the ones that are supposed to be reported to.If Joe convinced them not to go to authorities, then that is horrible indeed.

 

[mad sweeney]

Unreal, whenever you disagree on this site you get painted as the Devil. Of course I would report child rape, my point was there was already a witnesses and Presidents of the University that were aware of the incident that I did not witness.

Your point is that everyone above Paterno and below Paterno had the responsibility to do something. And that Paterno did not. We get it.

Many had a lot greater responsibilty, and if they did their job it would be a non-issue. It didn't work out that way, and Joe spent his last days with regret that he hadn't done more. My point is that anyone on here that says anything positive at all about Joe's life or points out that he was far down the list on accountability, gets their head torn off. There's more venom in here for Joe then Sandusky, McQueery, his father, the DA, the PSU presidents, and Sandusky's supposedly deaf wife. Since the beginning this story broke, you would think Joe was in there raping the kids himself. The media wouldn't have covered the story nearly as much as they did if there weren't the Paterno side story.

He was not far down the list of accountability. As the most pewerful figure in Happy Valley he had the ultimate authority. And those emails certainly suggest that he used it to keep the issue quiet. The president went to Joe to talk about the fact that they were going to tell the police and the charity, but after that talk he decided not to. To keep it in house. A ####### child rapist in house. And they were dumb enough to even admit that they knew they'd get in trouble down the line if Sandusky did it again. And all those people saw him with kids for another decade. Joe knew and could've done the right thing but he chose the image over what's legally, morally and humanly right. So those with greater authority (which they actually idn't have, Paterno did) were going to do the right thing. Then after Joe they didn't. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.The venom towards Joe is because he is who he is. A supposed paragon of virtue, truth, honesty, and old school values. The higher you are, the harder you fall. He was the face of the school and the football team. Of course he's going to be focused on. Everyon knows Sandusky is a monster, even Joe did. And he still let the manster run around with little boys in Joe's turf and he did nothing. He didn't rape any boys, but all those boys that were land squarely on Joe's shoulders for letting the monster run free.

 

[crewmember]

I just hope I'm not held to such standards in my life

I still can't believe this comment. You hope that nobody would expect you to turn in a child rapist. You hope that if you have the power to stop the sexual torture of a child that nobody would expect you to raise a finger. That you should be able to go about your business and hope someone else deals with the hard problem. Ick.

Unreal, whenever you disagree on this site you get painted as the Devil. Of course I would report child rape, my point was there was already a witnesses and Presidents of the University that were aware of the incident that I did not witness. I don't watch the news at 6pm and then call the police on every crime they just reported.

Just stop

Please make him stop.

yea, such a conterversial statement You guys accuse me of condoning child rape and I'm the one that should stop.

Its not from 1 single post, and you know it. There is no excuse for JoPa not doing everything possible (including taking the matter into his own hands with a baseball bat) to stop that problem. None.

baseball bat? Ok, you're done lecturing me on right and wrong.

 

[mad sweeney]

Mcreery watered down what happened to Paterno.

First off, if you want people to think that you know what you're talking about, you should at least know the names of the people you're talking about.Secondly, why does it matter if Mike McQueary's description was "watered down" or not? The 'watered down' description was so heinous that Paterno should have called the cops immediately. Here's how McQueary described it to Paterno: "Jerry Sandusky fondling a young boy in the shower. It was of a sexual nature. It was inappropriate."

How can you justify NOT calling the police after being told that??

Why did MCQUEARY not go to the police, or his dad? Why not the administartion who are the superiors, who are the ones that are supposed to be reported to.If Joe convinced them not to go to authorities, then that is horrible indeed.

Because McQueary is a coward and also put his career ahead of what is right. He deserves to be ridiculed and shunned for the rest of his life.

 

[Ketamine Dreams]

On a side note, how can you rise to the level of senior administration at a major research university and still be stupid enough to talk about your plan to cover up serial child molestation via email? These people should all have the BAs and PhDs revoked.

That's what I was wondering. Let's document this whole fiasco on email as we muck it up.

 

[fatness]

Your point is that everyone above Paterno and below Paterno had the responsibility to do something. And that Paterno did not. We get it.

Many had a lot greater responsibilty, and if they did their job it would be a non-issue.

Everyone involved who knew of this had the responsiblity to go to the police. None of them did.Stop exempting Paterno.

 

[crewmember]

The only people singling Paterno out are the ones defending him. The rest of us think everyone who knew and covered this up are equally guilty. Also, the fact that he's dead doesn't matter at all.

This doesn't seem true at all. Since the story broke Paterno has been talked about as much as Sandusky himself. He's the only famous person involved in the story, thus has recieved all the venom even though many peoople involved did much worse.

Nobody's defending the other guys responsible for sweeping this under the rug, because none of those guys were involved with the precious football team. Take away the people who seem to think that the fact that he allowed children to be raped under his nose shouldn't define his legacy and I doubt he gets a lot more attention than any of the other administrators. "Aside from that one little thing, John Wilkes Booth was a great guy"



Paterno's legacy is that of a man who cared more about the reputation of his football program than he did innocent children who were getting raped in the showers of his very building. This isn't a one time mistake, either. This is something he's hidden and subsequently enabled for a decade that we know of, it could be even longer. That shows a complete lack of integrity. Whatever Paterno preached to his football players, it was just a show. Character and integrity are what you do when nobody's watching. When nobody was watching, those in charge at PSU decided on something so abhorrent I don't even want to think about it. Including everybody's precious football coach. Despite the fact that he won football games. We thought Paterno was a man of character and honor for a long time. He had us fooled, and the fact that he had us fooled for a long time doesn't change the legacy he left, which is what he truly is - a man who will look after his own self interests and protect his friend instead of protect innocent children.



If someone comes in here trying to defend any of the other administrators, we can have the same conversation about them. But as long as we've got people in here defending Paterno, I'll be happy to point out the fact that they're defending a spineless coward who was a selfish liar for years and years.

I know no one is defending the others involved, just that they don't constly get flinged #### at like Paterno does. To me, Mcreery and his dad are two of the stupidest people to walk the face of the earth. I guess I just have diffrent expectations for a coach of a football team then others do, when the witness, police, and presidents of the university can't get the job done my anger doesn't go towards the guy who's game planning for Nebraska on Saturday. New evidnce is coming out now which is changing my opinion quite a bit, but Paterno was being crucified way before this came out. Of course people will now claim they knew this is what happened, but in reality they had no idea.

The facts seem to contradict this line of reasoning. I think most people had exactly the right idea of what happened, while a minority of people deluded themselves that it wasn't exactly as bad (or worse) than it initially appeared.

Fair enough, agree to disagree. There's no way to prove it either way. I think it was a witch hunt because of his celeberity status with the facts that were presented at the time. I respect your opinion, I guess manybe I took more of an innocent until proven guilty mentaility. There was no reason for me to delude myself, I've made fun of Paterono's "coaching" for the last 10 years and would love to rub it into my PSU friends who love to boast about the school's moral character.

I think you are confusing concepts of a "witch hunt" and an event so strange and out of character involving a person, the divide itself becomes news. A witch hunt is a situation like OJ Simpson's subsequent legal problems, or the Wikileaks guy being arrested or Barry Bonds or Clemens roid cases. Guys that annoyed and seemed like they were doing "wrong" even though we had next to parameter by which to frame a "wrong" in a legal sense around their conduct.

Paterno was certainly a galvanizing character in his heyday, but largely revered by most inside of the insular community of college football. I don't think people eyed Joe as doing something wrong and were just waiting to nail him on SOMETHING. Some were, but most were not I would say.

The difference is, this is news, in the strictest sense of dog bites man vs. man bites dog. When you not only position yourself as paragon of virtue but also use the example of yourself and "your" program as a guide to "how things are done". When a moral crusader gets caught associated with something immoral, then it is by definition, news worthy. And a scandal of this sort is unprecedented to my recollection in college football, a notoriously down and dirty business.

Add to this, the fact that his choice of action, which was inaction, created really incalculable harm to who knows how many more children with ten years of free reign when there was every reason to believe something was askew.

There are so many simple course of of action that could have done much to redeem Paterno.

-pursue police action- the obviously advisable course

-push for a removal from the PSU community- a choice that would have been pushing the problem off but at least have in a public way put forth a message of non-support

-allowed Sandusky access but forbid him to bring children to the facility

I think THAT last point is the most sickening aspect. I don't agree with inaction, because having been around teachers grown up that we made jokes about being kid touchers and were later revealed to be so, I find it hard to believe the jokes and whispers of a community wouldn't echo and the concept that Jerry might be a little "too friendly" is hardly a thought that would have emerged in 2001 or even 1998 but in time well before that. But that's speculation. You know about these allegations, and if you want to live in denial, I think there is a great human capacity for that, look at the guy's wife. But even in a state of denial, to know what was alleged, even in a whisper, to let this guy bring kids around PSU, and in effect, use it as bait or a lure for the children, to let this guy take kids on bowl trips and road trips, JFC, I'm revolted just thinking about it.

You can not possibly put for a justification for allowing THAT to happen.

I get that Joe is an old school ginzo from New York, and may well live with a "credo" of don't rat on your friends (although I don't think this sort of conduct was covered in that maxim). You can do a whole lot between not "ratting" and at least throwing a major roadblock so this sort of behavior doesn't happen in your world.

sorry, no respone. I don't disagree with most of what you said. When the story broke, there would be a 30 minute segment on tv about paterno, while these clowns on tv would every now and then lecture us about how its about the victims, that was abit sickening to me.

 

[crewmember]

Unreal, whenever you disagree on this site you get painted as the Devil. Of course I would report child rape, my point was there was already a witnesses and Presidents of the University that were aware of the incident that I did not witness.

Your point is that everyone above Paterno and below Paterno had the responsibility to do something. And that Paterno did not. We get it.

Many had a lot greater responsibilty, and if they did their job it would be a non-issue. It didn't work out that way, and Joe spent his last days with regret that he hadn't done more. My point is that anyone on here that says anything positive at all about Joe's life or points out that he was far down the list on accountability, gets their head torn off. There's more venom in here for Joe then Sandusky, McQueery, his father, the DA, the PSU presidents, and Sandusky's supposedly deaf wife. Since the beginning this story broke, you would think Joe was in there raping the kids himself. The media wouldn't have covered the story nearly as much as they did if there weren't the Paterno side story.

He was not far down the list of accountability. As the most pewerful figure in Happy Valley he had the ultimate authority. And those emails certainly suggest that he used it to keep the issue quiet. The president went to Joe to talk about the fact that they were going to tell the police and the charity, but after that talk he decided not to. To keep it in house. A ####### child rapist in house. And they were dumb enough to even admit that they knew they'd get in trouble down the line if Sandusky did it again. And all those people saw him with kids for another decade. Joe knew and could've done the right thing but he chose the image over what's legally, morally and humanly right. So those with greater authority (which they actually idn't have, Paterno did) were going to do the right thing. Then after Joe they didn't. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.The venom towards Joe is because he is who he is. A supposed paragon of virtue, truth, honesty, and old school values. The higher you are, the harder you fall. He was the face of the school and the football team. Of course he's going to be focused on. Everyon knows Sandusky is a monster, even Joe did. And he still let the manster run around with little boys in Joe's turf and he did nothing. He didn't rape any boys, but all those boys that were land squarely on Joe's shoulders for letting the monster run free.

I've said before if the new emails are true then I agree with you. I was referring to prior rage. The thing about Joe's reputation is I never saw him bragging about it. I'm sure other people did, but I never saw him come out and say how great a person he was. I could have missed that though.

 

[JZilla]

Well I tried to give Paterno the benefit of the doubt early on but now it appears he was at the very least complicit in the cover-up, most likely directing the whole thing. One of these flunkies will spill the beans on everything that happened soon enough. Pretty crazy stuff I'm sure.

An entire legacy wiped by arrogance and moral detachment. Classic!

 

[crewmember]

Anywho, this is pointless and not productive. If anyone wants to set up a paypal to give to a charity revolved around this issue we could turn these feelings into something positive. I don't have much money but will chip in a few bucks. It's a 138 page thread and I'm sure many other football guys would contribute so we could get a nice pool going.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

RAINN is an excellent organization that lots of PSUers donated to when this first broke. In fact I'm wearing the PSU v Nebraska t-shirt they created for that first game after it blew up. Link

 

[crewmember]

RAINN is an excellent organization that lots of PSUers donated to when this first broke. In fact I'm wearing the PSU v Nebraska t-shirt they created for that first game after it blew up. Link

That's cool I would like to donate to an organization that spends most of its efforts educating children and parents to avoid bad situations and empower victims to speak up if something happens. Rehibilation to victims is great too,. It would be nice to see a group that really goes after empowering kids. This is a crime that can actually be drastically cut down, considering a large percentage of predators were abused themself at one point.

 

[mad sweeney]

Unreal, whenever you disagree on this site you get painted as the Devil. Of course I would report child rape, my point was there was already a witnesses and Presidents of the University that were aware of the incident that I did not witness.

Your point is that everyone above Paterno and below Paterno had the responsibility to do something. And that Paterno did not. We get it.

Many had a lot greater responsibilty, and if they did their job it would be a non-issue. It didn't work out that way, and Joe spent his last days with regret that he hadn't done more. My point is that anyone on here that says anything positive at all about Joe's life or points out that he was far down the list on accountability, gets their head torn off. There's more venom in here for Joe then Sandusky, McQueery, his father, the DA, the PSU presidents, and Sandusky's supposedly deaf wife. Since the beginning this story broke, you would think Joe was in there raping the kids himself. The media wouldn't have covered the story nearly as much as they did if there weren't the Paterno side story.

He was not far down the list of accountability. As the most pewerful figure in Happy Valley he had the ultimate authority. And those emails certainly suggest that he used it to keep the issue quiet. The president went to Joe to talk about the fact that they were going to tell the police and the charity, but after that talk he decided not to. To keep it in house. A ####### child rapist in house. And they were dumb enough to even admit that they knew they'd get in trouble down the line if Sandusky did it again. And all those people saw him with kids for another decade. Joe knew and could've done the right thing but he chose the image over what's legally, morally and humanly right. So those with greater authority (which they actually idn't have, Paterno did) were going to do the right thing. Then after Joe they didn't. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.The venom towards Joe is because he is who he is. A supposed paragon of virtue, truth, honesty, and old school values. The higher you are, the harder you fall. He was the face of the school and the football team. Of course he's going to be focused on. Everyon knows Sandusky is a monster, even Joe did. And he still let the manster run around with little boys in Joe's turf and he did nothing. He didn't rape any boys, but all those boys that were land squarely on Joe's shoulders for letting the monster run free.

I've said before if the new emails are true then I agree with you. I was referring to prior rage. The thing about Joe's reputation is I never saw him bragging about it. I'm sure other people did, but I never saw him come out and say how great a person he was. I could have missed that though.

Joe IS Penn State. There's a statue of him on campus. What does it matter if he talked about how great he is. All of the good stuff you want to remember over his one mistake built his reputation. As for prior rage, his Grand Jury testimony had already showed that he knew enough about the 2001 incident to shut Sandysky down and he didn't. Thats damning enough already.

 

[fatness]

Top Pennsylvania State University officials held a three-hour meeting to discuss Jerry Sandusky in 2001 over concerns about the former coach's behavior with a boy in the football showers. A law-firm billing record from that conversation describes a "report of suspected child abuse," according to a person with knowledge of an independent investigation into the matter.

link

Mr. Paterno was often at the center of conversations related to disciplinary issues in the program, even when it wasn't his place to handle such problems. And according to documents obtained by The Chronicle, administrators at the highest levels made sure he got his way.

Letters and e-mails that one former top Penn State administrator provided to Mr. Freeh's investigators show that Mr. Spanier and Wendell V. Courtney, the university's general counsel, repeatedly intervened on Coach Paterno's behalf in an apparent attempt to quash problems.

Mr. Spanier also became involved in the university’s disciplinary process in that case, helping schedule player interviews and organizing a meeting at his home with Mr. Paterno, Mr. Curley, Mr. Courtney, and the then-vice president of student affairs, Vicky Triponey. In a letter that Ms. Triponey wrote to Mr. Spanier ahead of that meeting, she expressed concerns that she was being pressured to alter discipline decisions involving football players.

"I am being forced into a meeting that seriously jeopardizes my ability to be an impartial appeal officer in our student discipline system and the Division of Student Affairs is being pressured to make decisions that go beyond the boundaries and jeopardize the integrity of our student discipline process," she wrote.

In an e-mail to Mr. Spanier and Mr. Curley, Mr. Courtney, the lawyer, said he had informed Ms. Triponey about how she should act in the meeting with Mr. Paterno, whose initials were JVP.

"I did note the possibility that JVP could try to negotiate at some level," he wrote, "and she should listen and try to keep comments to a bare minimum."

 

[Joe Summer]

It seemed like a minor detail at the time, but this story back in May has a direct link to the latest developments.

Prosecutors are no longer thinking that Mike McQueary saw Jerry Sandusky sexually assaulting a boy in a Penn State locker room the night before spring break in 2002.

Instead, new evidence shows what McQueary saw happened instead in February 2001, the attorney general's office said in court paperwork filed today.

"new evidence" = prosecutors found the emails.

 

[Smack Tripper]

It seemed like a minor detail at the time, but this story back in May has a direct link to the latest developments.

Prosecutors are no longer thinking that Mike McQueary saw Jerry Sandusky sexually assaulting a boy in a Penn State locker room the night before spring break in 2002.

Instead, new evidence shows what McQueary saw happened instead in February 2001, the attorney general's office said in court paperwork filed today.

"new evidence" = prosecutors found the emails.

Would that be grounds for a mistrial even though he was acquitted of those charges given it would have occurred outside of the statute of limitations window? I have to think that testimony might have colored all the rest of th judgement

 

[fatness]

Would that be grounds for a mistrial even though he was acquitted of those charges given it would have occurred outside of the statute of limitations window? I have to think that testimony might have colored all the rest of th judgement

The prosecution amended the date before the case went to trial. The defense and the judge were aware of this.He was convicted on 3 of the 4 charges involving what McQueary saw, and acquitted on only one of them because the jury said McQueary did not actually see the penis go in the ######.