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Jordan Cameron/Jimmy Graham ... statistical pace after 4 games (1 Viewer)

Raider Nation

Devil's Advocate
This is insanity.

GRAHAM

Receptions: 108

Yards: 1,832

TDs: 24


CAMERON

Receptions: 120

Yards: 1,440

TDs: 20


:loco:

This isn't one fluke game we're talking about. A quarter of the season is a fair sample size.

 

ConnSKINS26

Footballguy
I'm contemplating sending Godfather type offers for Cameron in a couple leagues before its too late and his value is cemented.

 

Raider Nation

Devil's Advocate
I'm contemplating sending Godfather type offers for Cameron in a couple leagues before its too late and his value is cemented.
Bloom already has him in the Graham/Gronk tier (in the Week 4 review show last night).

Not sure how I feel about putting him on that level at this juncture.

 

Run It Up

Footballguy
I don't think he can break that barrier on that team, I just don't think its possible, that being said I would love nothing more for the Pats to sell the farm to obtain Cameron or Graham.

 
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ConnSKINS26

Footballguy
I'm contemplating sending Godfather type offers for Cameron in a couple leagues before its too late and his value is cemented.
Bloom already has him in the Graham/Gronk tier (in the Week 4 review show last night).

Not sure how I feel about putting him on that level at this juncture.
Eventually, defenses will try to take him away. Soon. If he belongs in that tier, nothing will work, and he'll continue to produce. It bodes well that he's playing all over the field, so mismatches will always happen. Hell, he's a walking mismatch. I think he will prove to belong in that tier, the question is, will his QB continue to get him the ball.

I'm going to try to "overpay" now so that in a month, it's still less than anyone has paid for Gronk/Graham the last couple years. We'll see.

 
I picked him up on almost all teams just because of the hype I kept hearing - including the FBG podcast.

Sadly, if not for him...I'd really be in the ####ter in some leagues thanks to the TRiches, Spillers, Wilsons, Ridleys, Martin, etc. that many of us spent our first couple rounds going after.

 

ConnSKINS26

Footballguy
Eventually, defenses will try to take him away.
Which is music to the ears of Gordon owners. As if he wasn't awesome enough already. :)
Good point. Hopefully they continue to feed off each other. But I will say, there are more conventional ways to take away a receiver like Gordon, even as good as he is already, than there are ways to attempt to combat the versatile usage of a guy like Cameron.

 

Adam Harstad

Moderator
Buying players on a hot streak rarely works out well, as their cost already reflects assumptions that it can be maintained, when it usually can't.

To provide the most extreme example I can think of, after four games in 2010, Dustin Keller had 19 receptions, 254 yards, and 5 TDs. Over the remainder of the season, Keller had 36 receptions, 433 yards, and 0 TDs. I highly doubt Cameron will crash back to earth anywhere near that hard, but I'm certainly not making a "godfather offer" for him at this stage. I'd love to have him and think he's the #3 fantasy TE going forward, but I don't think he'll produce at anywhere near his current pace over the final 12 weeks.

 
Defenses take him away?

Trying to add up how many years I keep hearing that about Gronk and Graham but I'm too tired.

Someone help me out...

He's not going to have HoF games every week but given his value return, mind blown.

 

ConnSKINS26

Footballguy
Buying players on a hot streak rarely works out well, as their cost already reflects assumptions that it can be maintained, when it usually can't.

To provide the most extreme example I can think of, after four games in 2010, Dustin Keller had 19 receptions, 254 yards, and 5 TDs. Over the remainder of the season, Keller had 36 receptions, 433 yards, and 0 TDs. I highly doubt Cameron will crash back to earth anywhere near that hard, but I'm certainly not making a "godfather offer" for him at this stage. I'd love to have him and think he's the #3 fantasy TE going forward, but I don't think he'll produce at anywhere near his current pace over the final 12 weeks.
My point, in case it was missed (and maybe it wasn't), was that making what amounts to a Godfather offer now, at his current value, could look like a steal in a month or two. It's a gamble, but it's cheaper than he'll be if he keeps it up. The whole idea is to pay what looks to be a lot for Cameron now, to avoid paying Graham/Gronk level prices later.
 
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Raider Nation

Devil's Advocate
Buying players on a hot streak rarely works out well, as their cost already reflects assumptions that it can be maintained, when it usually can't.

To provide the most extreme example I can think of, after four games in 2010, Dustin Keller had 19 receptions, 254 yards, and 5 TDs. Over the remainder of the season, Keller had 36 receptions, 433 yards, and 0 TDs. I highly doubt Cameron will crash back to earth anywhere near that hard, but I'm certainly not making a "godfather offer" for him at this stage. I'd love to have him and think he's the #3 fantasy TE going forward, but I don't think he'll produce at anywhere near his current pace over the final 12 weeks.
My point, in case it was missed (and maybe it wasn't), was that making what amounts to a Godfather offer now, at his current value, could look like a steal in a month or two. It's a gamble, but it's cheaper than he'll be if he keeps it up. The whole idea is to pay what looks to be a lot for Cameron now, to avoid paying Graham/Gronk level prices later.
I'd be interested in hearing what this offer will be. Got a rough sketch in mind?

 

ConnSKINS26

Footballguy
Buying players on a hot streak rarely works out well, as their cost already reflects assumptions that it can be maintained, when it usually can't. To provide the most extreme example I can think of, after four games in 2010, Dustin Keller had 19 receptions, 254 yards, and 5 TDs. Over the remainder of the season, Keller had 36 receptions, 433 yards, and 0 TDs. I highly doubt Cameron will crash back to earth anywhere near that hard, but I'm certainly not making a "godfather offer" for him at this stage. I'd love to have him and think he's the #3 fantasy TE going forward, but I don't think he'll produce at anywhere near his current pace over the final 12 weeks.
My point, in case it was missed (and maybe it wasn't), was that making what amounts to a Godfather offer now, at his current value, could look like a steal in a month or two. It's a gamble, but it's cheaper than he'll be if he keeps it up. The whole idea is to pay what looks to be a lot for Cameron now, to avoid paying Graham/Gronk level prices later.
I'd be interested in hearing what this offer will be. Got a rough sketch in mind?
I really haven't figured it out yet and I'd hate to mislead, so if I put an offer on the table I'll report it in this thread. But I won't be moving a stud for him, yet. I'll probably start by offering multiple startable players who are not universally considered elite, and add draft picks as much as I have to. And I'm only considering this approach because in one league, a rebuilding owner has both Graham and Cameron, so I'm hoping he'll see multiple guys that will improve his roster across the board and not require a stud back. I'm not talking about garbage players, but guys like Miller who have their believers and lots of appeal to certain owners. But again, I don't have a specific offer in mind so I could change my mind.

 

SCT

Footballguy
I just had my offer accepted in a dynasty ppr league. My McFadden, Sproles, Gonzo for his Forte, Michael Floyd, Cameron

 

Squintz82

Footballguy
As long as Gordon is starting, teams aren't going to be able to sell out on one of them. As we saw, they are both capable of big games together. Personally, Gordon is the bigger threat tottake it to the house on any play. I don't think teams let up on Gordon much to cover Cameron.

 

lod01

Footballguy
Saw a dynasty trade last week for Cameron.

Cameron for

D Williams

2014 1st

2014 2nd (both probably early)
As a dynasty owner of both Graham and Cameron, I would laugh at that weak ### offer. In Dynasty it would take a minimum of 2 1st, all money that Cameron earns for 2 years (we pay out $ for the top 3 at each position), and 1 stud RB or WR. Why? Because it is real hard to find a TE at this caliber and if Graham goes down the week after I trade Cameron, I want to make sure I was well compensated for losing all my TE points.

 

Craig_MiamiFL

Footballguy
12 team Redraft 1 PPR: (accepted today in league)

Spiller, J.Cook, Sean Lee

Cameron, J.Starks, D.McCluster

 
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bicycle_seat_sniffer

Smells like chicken
I dont think Jimmy Graham is on a hot streak, 100 catches is do-able, 1400 yards is do-able, more like 15 tds ish though rather than 24. Yikes

 

McGarnicle

Footballguy
I'll tell you cats one thing, I'm damn happy to have drafted Cameron in the 13th round, damn happy to have Vernon Davis riding the pine as his backup, and damn sure not going to trade him. Whoops, looks like that was three things.

 

tsarc888

Footballguy
I'll tell you cats one thing, I'm damn happy to have drafted Cameron in the 13th round, damn happy to have Vernon Davis riding the pine as his backup, and damn sure not going to trade him. Whoops, looks like that was three things.
ditto here. Vernon Davis was wally pipped by Cameron.

 

LionOfGosforth

Footballguy
Owned both of them, traded Cameron after week 1 for Garcon (needed WR help pretty badly). With hindsight, would have waited and looked for a better deal later but trades just don't generally happen in this local league so decided to do it. Hardly upset since Graham is blowing the doors off weekly but each good Cameron week stings a little.

 

Deadly Carbon

Footballguy
I was offered AJ Green/T. Gonzalez for J. Nelson/Cameron...and turned it down. I would have never thought that would happen a few weeks ago.

 

theToes

Footballguy
I just traded Cameron

Rivers / Cameron / Steve Johnson / Pierce for Cam Newton / Calvin Johnson / Gio Bernard / Scott Chandler

I was not looking to trade Cameron but I like what I got in return

 

msudaisy26

Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
weebs said:
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
I dont think Jimmy Graham is on a hot streak, 100 catches is do-able, 1400 yards is do-able, more like 15 tds ish though rather than 24. Yikes
Gronk owner who got destroyed by graham this year?
no sir,I own Jimmy in 3 out of my 5 leagues. not sure of your point
Graham lover who thinks Graham is 1000 times better than Gronk. God forbid their be a 2 or 3 dominant tight ends in the league.

 

msudaisy26

Footballguy
I just traded Cameron

Rivers / Cameron / Steve Johnson / Pierce for Cam Newton / Calvin Johnson / Gio Bernard / Scott Chandler

I was not looking to trade Cameron but I like what I got in return
Nice haul, someone just paid you a Graham or Gronk price for Cameron

 

theToes

Footballguy
I just traded Cameron

Rivers / Cameron / Steve Johnson / Pierce for Cam Newton / Calvin Johnson / Gio Bernard / Scott Chandler

I was not looking to trade Cameron but I like what I got in return
Nice haul, someone just paid you a Graham or Gronk price for Cameron
Yeah I'm pretty happy with the deal. Like I said I wasn't looking to trade Cameron but couldn't pass up what was offered.

I have Brees so I could afford to move Rivers.

I have Finley for a backup TE. Even if he misses a week or two I can find a suitable fill in on the WW to cover.

We only start 2 WR and they are now Calvin and DT.

It's also a ppr league so Gio will fit in nicely with Forte and sub for McFadden.

I like my team a lot post trade.

 
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encaitar

Footballguy
Graham can absolutely keep up his production. He was double teamed on almost every pass he caught yesterday and was still unstoppable. I honestly think he's as dominant of a receiving threat as Calvin Johnson right now. His 1st touchdown catch last night he made against perfect coverage. He just went up over the 2 guys on him and was strong enough to bring it down. It really isn't fair.

Cameron has looked great this year too, but he's been seeing single coverage mostly from what I've seen. If he keeps putting up these stats he'll start to draw a lot more doubles even with Gordon's as a deep threat, especially in the red zone. It will be interesting to see if he can beat them consistently like Jimmy has this year.

 

Art Vandalay

Footballguy
The thing is that Cameron and Gronk are TE's

Graham is a WR and the NFL should force him to change his designation. The Saints will be forced to pay him as one by rule of the number of snaps he has taken at that position if the franchise him and I would love the league to make him change his title to WR.

 

ClownDogs

Footballguy
right before season started, i got Cameron for M.Bennett in a 16 team, 1.5ppr league.

I am sitting with Cameron/Graham as my weekly TE's and needless to say, 1st in overall points.

Figured Cameron would be good, but NEVER expected this good, doubt anyone could have.

 

Deadly Carbon

Footballguy
I was offered AJ Green/T. Gonzalez for J. Nelson/Cameron...and turned it down. I would have never thought that would happen a few weeks ago.
Interesting. As a Cameron owner, I have to believe I would accept that deal.
Green and Gonzo haven't been producing consistant numbers like Nelson and Cameron. Ironically, it was put back on the table for Nelson or Fitzgerald. Now you are making me think twice!

 
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msudaisy26

Footballguy
I was offered AJ Green/T. Gonzalez for J. Nelson/Cameron...and turned it down. I would have never thought that would happen a few weeks ago.
Interesting. As a Cameron owner, I have to believe I would accept that deal.
Green and Gonzo haven't been producing consistant numbers like Nelson and Cameron. Ironically, it was put back on the table for Nelson or Fitzgerald. Now you are making me think twice!
Redraft I can understand turning it down. Nelson is already past his bye and maybe you like his chances better this year. Dynasty I think I have to take Green

 

Deadly Carbon

Footballguy
I was offered AJ Green/T. Gonzalez for J. Nelson/Cameron...and turned it down. I would have never thought that would happen a few weeks ago.
Interesting. As a Cameron owner, I have to believe I would accept that deal.
Green and Gonzo haven't been producing consistant numbers like Nelson and Cameron. Ironically, it was put back on the table for Nelson or Fitzgerald. Now you are making me think twice!
Redraft I can understand turning it down. Nelson is already past his bye and maybe you like his chances better this year. Dynasty I think I have to take Green
It is redraft.

 

NREC34

Footballguy
I just traded Cameron

Rivers / Cameron / Steve Johnson / Pierce for Cam Newton / Calvin Johnson / Gio Bernard / Scott Chandler

I was not looking to trade Cameron but I like what I got in return
If that makes Newton your qb1 I don't like it for you.

 

CoachJankySpanky

Footballguy
I just traded Cameron

Rivers / Cameron / Steve Johnson / Pierce for Cam Newton / Calvin Johnson / Gio Bernard / Scott Chandler

I was not looking to trade Cameron but I like what I got in return
You won that one big.Cam >> Rivers

Calvin >> Cameron

Gio >= Stevie/Pierce

Chandler >= raging hemorrhoids

I have tried proposing similar deals like what you gave up for Calvin only and have been shot down. To get Cam and Gio on top of that is an unbelievable haul.

 

socrates

Footballguy
I was offered AJ Green/T. Gonzalez for J. Nelson/Cameron...and turned it down. I would have never thought that would happen a few weeks ago.
Interesting. As a Cameron owner, I have to believe I would accept that deal.
Green and Gonzo haven't been producing consistant numbers like Nelson and Cameron. Ironically, it was put back on the table. Now you are making me think twice!
I am assuming redraft.

Probably, the other owner is figuring Gonzo's value is up after he embarrassed NE Sunday night, and it well should be. We know what Gonzo is capable of. He does not have the speed he once possessed, but he is a wily veteran who knows how to get open, and he has as good of hands as anyone, especially around the goalline. I expect Gonzalez to easily be among the top 10 TE's when this season is in the books, and a top 5 finish is likely (Gonzo is at 5 right now, in my PPR league). Cameron certainly looks the part of being even better than that, and so the question is, do you take a step down at TE to upgrade from Jordy Nelson to AJ Green? I think yes.

Nelson is ahead of Green's production at the moment, but I do not see that trend continuing. I have far more faith in AJ Green finishing in the top 5 than I do in Jordy Nelson finishing that high, and that is not to say I am down on Nelson, just more of an endorsement of Green.

Another factor I would consider: Gonzo has been as consistent as any TE, finishing at or near the top at his position season after season. Jordan Cameron looks like another Jimmy Graham type talent at the moment, but can he stay healthy? Can he maintain this torrid pace? I don't think Cameron has had any particular durability concerns, although I remember dropping him early last season after he had missed some time due to a (back strain?) and then a (concussion?). I do not remember the particulars, but again, I do remember having high hopes, then dropping him. I do not bring that up as a suggestion that Cameron is injury prone, more to say, we know what we have in Gonzo, for the most part. Cameron is that shiny new toy at the moment, but we have less history with him.

All in all, I guess it comes down to whether you can live with watching Cameron potentially have a record-setting season for your opponent. I tend to play it conservative when it comes to my weekly starters, and swing for the fences with my bench players. In this instance, I like the Gonzo-Green side of the deal, albeit not by a wide margin.

 

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