Adam Harstad
Moderator
It's all guessing. None of us knows direct details, we're trying to put the puzzle together with the pieces we have (and it doesn't help that so many of the pieces are missing). Educated guesses are still guesses.
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Josh Gordon facing 1 year suspension? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Soulfly3
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Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Not to mention there are educated guesses, and then there are educated guesses from a Gordon-owning / loving Browns homer. The NFL is more exciting with Gordon in it IMO, and I found the thought of him missing a year while Ray Rice gets to suit up to be unbelievable on many levels. But the policy is what it is, and I'll base my personal projections on that.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
to be fair, I own Ray Rice and Gio Bernard in the same league.
You dont see me running around claiming Gio isnt gonna lose a huge chunk of carries. He will. Gotta live w that.
Rice, while he is trending downwards, can still be a difference maker - I dont want that loser to suit up and Id gladly cut him tomorrow. Fact is he is on camera beating the life from his gf and dragging her around like a caveman
Having Gordon on ONE (yes, I only own him in ONE) of my rosters isn't why Im doing this.
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B-Deep
Footballguy
I find Gordon suiting up while Ray Lewis won an MVP and is an announcer unbelievable.
Drugs, both performance enhancing and recreational are an issue the NFL and NFLPA agreed to handle in a specific way.
Crimes are handled in a separate way. Comparing the punishments is fine, but you have to understand why the punishments are applied the way they are. This does not mean the NFL and NFLPA think wife beating is less wrong than smoking weed. It just means the two different classes of infractions are handled differently.
and no one knows what Ray Rice will be facing. So far the evidence that the NFL has to act on is a police report and TMZ, I think once there is more evidence he may be facing a larger suspension than people think
but the focus should be on the fact that gordon cannot pass a drug test. unless the nfl embraces weed and says "smoke em if you got em" then evidence says he'll always have these issues.
the dude simply loves weed more than football
Drugs, both performance enhancing and recreational are an issue the NFL and NFLPA agreed to handle in a specific way.
Crimes are handled in a separate way. Comparing the punishments is fine, but you have to understand why the punishments are applied the way they are. This does not mean the NFL and NFLPA think wife beating is less wrong than smoking weed. It just means the two different classes of infractions are handled differently.
and no one knows what Ray Rice will be facing. So far the evidence that the NFL has to act on is a police report and TMZ, I think once there is more evidence he may be facing a larger suspension than people think
but the focus should be on the fact that gordon cannot pass a drug test. unless the nfl embraces weed and says "smoke em if you got em" then evidence says he'll always have these issues.
the dude simply loves weed more than football
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
can we merge these Gordon threads
Kevrunner
Footballguy
My guess is at least an 8 game suspension, but we will see soon. I just can't understand how Josh Gordon is that addicted to weed where he would risk millions of $$$$ for it. Whatever the suspension is, I just hope he gets his priorities straight for the sake of the fans of Cleveland, he is a great WR. I just can't get this scene out of my head now when I think about him:
Josh Gordon
Josh Gordon
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
I personally don't care at all if a player wants to use recreational drugs in the offseason. Now, if someone gets arrested, for whatever reason, that can potentially have a negative effect on the brand, and is worthy of disciplinary action. Gordon getting arrested with a sack of weed would be a different story to me than Gordon just failing an NFL test in April. The NFL itself caused any negative effect here -- if not for their ridiculously invasive testing policy no one would ever even know about this. Either way, KTFOing your girlfriend / wife is far worse on my personal POS scale than is smoking a joint, so the consequences should be harsher.
I'm not arguing that Gordon won't be suspended, and really not even that he shouldn't be suspended for the appropriate length of time -- for this violation. He knew the rules and broke them. But the substance abuse policy should be changed moving forward IMO. Anything that potentially takes star players off of the field for something as harmless as smoking weed in one's own home during the offseason does more harm than good IMO.
B-Deep
Footballguy
so if they ease on recreational drugs, are you ok with taking steroids being worse than KTFOing your girlfriend?
in my eyes there is no comparison, what rice did is way worse. But a repeat steroids user would be punished more than Rice. Why would that be ok?
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
IMO steroid use potentially damage the competitive fabric of the game, so yeah, it's worse than recreational drugs. IMO the steroid testing is pretty half-assed -- they don't even test for HGH -- but that's probably because the owners aren't going to try to stop something that makes the players more effective on the field.So if it were up to me, I'd punish actual arrests, ramp up steroid testing and penalties, and dump the recreational drug policy.
ETA: wife beating is worse than steroids -- I'd give Rice a year off personally.
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B-Deep
Footballguy
and please no one think i am defending rice, i think he should get hammered. I think the Ravens should do it if the league does not. But at this point it is just an unfair comparison. I think the guy us a scumball.
AS guilty as we all think Rice is, there is one video of him dragging her from an elevator. There's more to the story, and I believe a video of him punching her exists, but until they have that the NFL is wise to sit and wait and see what develops. Even once he is punished it is worth noting the nfl simply handles crimes differently from drugs. An HGH user will ultmiately be treated more harshly than a spousal abuser which seems wrong.
but the main point is right now we have no idea what is going to happen with Rice so it is way premature to compare these incidents.
If the drug policy should change, fine. But it is not unreasonable for Gordon to stay the hell away from weed untl then. And if it is, the NFLPA has to make it a priority. It seems as if HGH is the proper bargaining chips as the league and the nflpa may be coming to an agreement here. But we all know these are negotiations, and to get something like free weed use you have to give something. That's the way these things work. Either the PA did not care enough to push this till now, or they were unwilling to give up what they needed to get it.
But i do not think those changes will make the NFL punishment system more logically fair. Crimes will still be held to a different standard than PEDs, even though most of us agree crimes, particularly violent ones, are worse.
AS guilty as we all think Rice is, there is one video of him dragging her from an elevator. There's more to the story, and I believe a video of him punching her exists, but until they have that the NFL is wise to sit and wait and see what develops. Even once he is punished it is worth noting the nfl simply handles crimes differently from drugs. An HGH user will ultmiately be treated more harshly than a spousal abuser which seems wrong.
but the main point is right now we have no idea what is going to happen with Rice so it is way premature to compare these incidents.
If the drug policy should change, fine. But it is not unreasonable for Gordon to stay the hell away from weed untl then. And if it is, the NFLPA has to make it a priority. It seems as if HGH is the proper bargaining chips as the league and the nflpa may be coming to an agreement here. But we all know these are negotiations, and to get something like free weed use you have to give something. That's the way these things work. Either the PA did not care enough to push this till now, or they were unwilling to give up what they needed to get it.
But i do not think those changes will make the NFL punishment system more logically fair. Crimes will still be held to a different standard than PEDs, even though most of us agree crimes, particularly violent ones, are worse.
B-Deep
Footballguy
NFLPA stopped HGH testing, the league has been pushing for it. And the question is not should PEDs be worse than weed, but should they be worse then abuse? Because they will be. If that is unfair which do we change?
And, punishing arrests is risky. An arrests does not necessarily mean the person did anything wrong.
In this case it is pretty clear he did, but there is a risk when you make rules based on one case
logic might dictate let someone analyze these case by case, but there is a lot of hand wringing when the commissioner is thought to have too much power.
I don;t have answers, I am simply trying to point out how complex it al is and why the rice comparisons are expected, but sketchy
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Good points all, and there are no easy answers, obviously. I'm OK with punishing arrests, personally, as they do potentially damage the NFL brand PR-wise. Not saying automatically throw the book at someone the first time -- more thinking about serial offenders like Kenny Britt and Pacman Jones here. Rice being on video makes his case a bit different than the typical he said / she said domestic violence situation IMO. I'm comfortable in his case with heavy consequences even though it's the first time (that he's been caught, anyway) -- not that I think he'll get anything major but he should.
Drug abuse / addiction isn't something that the NFL needs to address at all IMO, until it leads to arrests and negative publicity, etc. Individual teams helping their own individual players through intervention, support, counseling, etc would be a far more effective way of treating / helping with these issues vs invasive testing and draconian suspension policies. Artificial consequences for drug addiction aren't necessary; there are plenty of real world natural consequences that an addict will face. Nor do they help, IMO. Addiction is a disease that requires treatment as opposed to a behavior that can be corrected / changed with punishment.
Josh the FunkDOC
Footballguy
browns homer here
i'm with coeur de lion on most of this stuff, though it's oversimplification to boil most domestic cases down to "he said/she said"; any quality study on this subject will tell you that only around 2% of sexual abuse accusations are proven false. our society treats abuse survivors so awfully that there isn't exactly a ton of incentive to lie here...heck, look at how many celebs circled the wagons around woody allen!
as for gordon, i can't really fault him for getting as much money as he can out of a POS owner who specifically targeted mexicans with his corporate shenanigans. annoying to me as a fan of the team, but haslam is a cancer and i don't see us becoming anything serious until he's forced out one way or another...
i'm with coeur de lion on most of this stuff, though it's oversimplification to boil most domestic cases down to "he said/she said"; any quality study on this subject will tell you that only around 2% of sexual abuse accusations are proven false. our society treats abuse survivors so awfully that there isn't exactly a ton of incentive to lie here...heck, look at how many celebs circled the wagons around woody allen!
as for gordon, i can't really fault him for getting as much money as he can out of a POS owner who specifically targeted mexicans with his corporate shenanigans. annoying to me as a fan of the team, but haslam is a cancer and i don't see us becoming anything serious until he's forced out one way or another...
cstu
Footballguy
This is the biggest issue I have for the league's policy on drug use. The consequence for testing positive should be an immediate trip to rehab, not suspensions. Force the guys to get help, not punish them for their problems. The NFL has a chance to lose two of its best young WR's because they are more focused on punishment than treatment.
Just read an article by Jim Trotter on ESPN.com which details fact that Goodell has not suspended a player under the personal conduct policy since 2012 when he suspended Britt. So we are coming up on two years since he's suspended anyone for a crime.
Article referenced how he's yet to take action against Rice or Aldon Smith and mentions he might be urging teams to handle discipline internally.
Don't have a point really, just thought it was somewhat on topic.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
I've mentioned this before. When Bountygate broke, Roger Goodell took huge, sweeping action and later got smacked down and embarrassed for it. Since then, he's shown MUCH more restraint, to the point where I don't even sweat "character guys" as risks anymore.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
BroadwayG
Footballguy
matttyl
Footballguy
Faust
MVP
I took it as a question, and it is indicative of the hope that many are holding that the suspension won't be as bad as initially feared.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
That's in there as part of Stage One. A player failing a test is evaluated and if need a treatment plan is created.cstu said:
grateful zed
Footballguy
bumpWhile I think this HAS to be in the back of Goodell's mind, I dont know how much an effect it'll havethe guy sells tickets and with manzel in town the whole world will be watching. methinks he gets a slap on the wrist.
the nfl isnt about justice, its about
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