Kid took air horn to the face (1 Viewer)

[parasaurolophus]

I understand this is a big fishing trip, and all that, but is there a punchline to it?because otherwise I don't see the point --- is this supposed to be some goofy metaphor for iraq, or whatever, and you want to trick everyone into a certain point of view?my 8 yr old kid blasted herself in the face with an airhorn is funny, and all that, but there's not much goin' on there to fish with.

any kind of fishing trip that brings your kids into it is a pretty crappy move.

 

[DrJ]

I understand this is a big fishing trip, and all that, but is there a punchline to it?because otherwise I don't see the point --- is this supposed to be some goofy metaphor for iraq, or whatever, and you want to trick everyone into a certain point of view?my 8 yr old kid blasted herself in the face with an airhorn is funny, and all that, but there's not much goin' on there to fish with.

any kind of fishing trip that brings your kids into it is a pretty crappy move.

But insulting someone's child like Larry has is fair game.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I understand this is a big fishing trip, and all that, but is there a punchline to it?because otherwise I don't see the point --- is this supposed to be some goofy metaphor for iraq, or whatever, and you want to trick everyone into a certain point of view?my 8 yr old kid blasted herself in the face with an airhorn is funny, and all that, but there's not much goin' on there to fish with.

any kind of fishing trip that brings your kids into it is a pretty crappy move.

yeah, but maybe he doesn't have kids -- just a lot of free time and booze.

 

[The Commish]

Maybe you should give her a trophy for outstanding pushing of a button.Just curious but where do you put yourself in the list of people to blame here?

Somewhere below the store/manufacturer who were somewhat negligent in the handling and distribution of the product, isn't that relatively clear?

I'm confused. Did the horn not work the way it was supposed to?I was under the impression that the horn worked as designed, and the injury was caused by user error.

Do you think a product that can cause serious personal injury when improperly used ought to be packaged in such a way that a user could try it out right off the shelf without having to even remove it from its package?

So far I haven't seen a reasonable defense of their packaging of the product. The simple explanation is that there isn't one.

Is this a horn targeted to kids? In other words, a horn for kids that packs an adult sound? If not, what more explanation do you need than it's targeted for an adult who understands what an air horn is and not a child??

I'm not following your logic here.

I'm not surprised.

 

[DrJ]

Maybe you should give her a trophy for outstanding pushing of a button.Just curious but where do you put yourself in the list of people to blame here?

Somewhere below the store/manufacturer who were somewhat negligent in the handling and distribution of the product, isn't that relatively clear?

I'm confused. Did the horn not work the way it was supposed to?I was under the impression that the horn worked as designed, and the injury was caused by user error.

Do you think a product that can cause serious personal injury when improperly used ought to be packaged in such a way that a user could try it out right off the shelf without having to even remove it from its package?

So far I haven't seen a reasonable defense of their packaging of the product. The simple explanation is that there isn't one.

Is this a horn targeted to kids? In other words, a horn for kids that packs an adult sound? If not, what more explanation do you need than it's targeted for an adult who understands what an air horn is and not a child??

I'm not following your logic here.

I'm not surprised.

Me either, it doesn't seem you put a lot of thought into it.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Maybe you should give her a trophy for outstanding pushing of a button.Just curious but where do you put yourself in the list of people to blame here?

Somewhere below the store/manufacturer who were somewhat negligent in the handling and distribution of the product, isn't that relatively clear?

I'm confused. Did the horn not work the way it was supposed to?I was under the impression that the horn worked as designed, and the injury was caused by user error.

Do you think a product that can cause serious personal injury when improperly used ought to be packaged in such a way that a user could try it out right off the shelf without having to even remove it from its package?

So far I haven't seen a reasonable defense of their packaging of the product. The simple explanation is that there isn't one.

Is this a horn targeted to kids? In other words, a horn for kids that packs an adult sound? If not, what more explanation do you need than it's targeted for an adult who understands what an air horn is and not a child??

I'm not following your logic here.

I'm not surprised.

Me either, it doesn't seem you put a lot of thought into it.

how big do you think this quote tree can grow?

 

[DrJ]

Maybe you should give her a trophy for outstanding pushing of a button.Just curious but where do you put yourself in the list of people to blame here?

Somewhere below the store/manufacturer who were somewhat negligent in the handling and distribution of the product, isn't that relatively clear?

I'm confused. Did the horn not work the way it was supposed to?I was under the impression that the horn worked as designed, and the injury was caused by user error.

Do you think a product that can cause serious personal injury when improperly used ought to be packaged in such a way that a user could try it out right off the shelf without having to even remove it from its package?

So far I haven't seen a reasonable defense of their packaging of the product. The simple explanation is that there isn't one.

Is this a horn targeted to kids? In other words, a horn for kids that packs an adult sound? If not, what more explanation do you need than it's targeted for an adult who understands what an air horn is and not a child??

I'm not following your logic here.

I'm not surprised.

Me either, it doesn't seem you put a lot of thought into it.

how big do you think this quote tree can grow?

As big as the board limits will allow, and then it'll give an error.

 

[PatsFanCT]

Word is spreading fast, and moms around the neighborhood are outraged. They agree that this place makes an active attempt to attract kids and they end up there a lot as a well. They also feel that this aggression simply cannot stand.

All the danger seeking kids in the neighborhood hang out in the boating goods aisle now because it's so dangerous, and someone can get their eardrum shot out.

 

[PatsFanCT]

Alright, got a chance to see the video. As I stated, the packaging was open, but my wife was able to easily open and close the packaging with 2 fingers. In addition to the "Push Button" that is displayed on the horn, it's the prominent label on the packaging itself. Just doesn't seem appropriate for this sort of product.

Packaging is meant to sell a product, and contain, you know, warnings. It's not to keep kids from getting to them. I don't understand your logic.I get it, I have kids and if one of them hurts themselves, it hurts me even more. But you can't just blame other people and look for a lawsuit every time they get hurt. That's pretty irresponsible as a parent.

 

[DrJ]

Alright, got a chance to see the video. As I stated, the packaging was open, but my wife was able to easily open and close the packaging with 2 fingers. In addition to the "Push Button" that is displayed on the horn, it's the prominent label on the packaging itself. Just doesn't seem appropriate for this sort of product.

Packaging is meant to sell a product, and contain, you know, warnings. It's not to keep kids from getting to them. I don't understand your logic.I get it, I have kids and if one of them hurts themselves, it hurts me even more. But you can't just blame other people and look for a lawsuit every time they get hurt. That's pretty irresponsible as a parent.

It's also part of the product safety for the consumer.

 

[The Commish]

Keep a better eye on your kid, Captain Crybaby.

I don't think an 8-9 year old needs serious supervision in this context. I'm just surprised a kid that old would be raised to feel like doing something like that is fine.

In the end, it's all about personal responsibility (ie. the parent in this case).

I agree but I don't think the issue is supervision. I think it's deeper than that. In other words, I wouldn't be afraid for my 8-year-old kid in that scenario not because I supervise them constantly but because they know better.

your 8 year old never does anything "dumb"?

My 8-year-old would not have pushed that button.

You want to recreate the scenario and give it a go?

I have. Many times.

Great, you let your kid wander through the boating goods aisle without being in arms reach regularly. So there really wasn't a problem with that part of it.

A kid wandering an isle isn't about the wandering, it's about what's in the isle they are wandering and how potentially harmful it is to wander said isle. My kid can wander the isles of Toys R Us all he wants. Not a chance in hell I turn him loose in the fishing isles of Bass Pro Shop.

 

[DrJ]

Looking at some of the sites that give information on packaging, almost all of them stress that safety is an important consideration and you have liability for failing to meet your obligations here.

 

[DrJ]

A kid wandering an isle isn't about the wandering, it's about what's in the isle they are wandering and how potentially harmful it is to wander said isle. My kid can wander the isles of Toys R Us all he wants. Not a chance in hell I turn him loose in the fishing isles of Bass Pro Shop.

The post you quoted said boating good aisle. I guess that wasn't clear enough.

 

[Witz]

I'm assuming this model of air horn was invented after March 01, 2011, right?

 

[DrJ]

I'm assuming this model of air horn was invented after March 01, 2011, right?

Not sure, I'm imagining that'll all shake out as we progress though.

 

[The Commish]

Maybe you should give her a trophy for outstanding pushing of a button.Just curious but where do you put yourself in the list of people to blame here?

Somewhere below the store/manufacturer who were somewhat negligent in the handling and distribution of the product, isn't that relatively clear?

I'm confused. Did the horn not work the way it was supposed to?I was under the impression that the horn worked as designed, and the injury was caused by user error.

Do you think a product that can cause serious personal injury when improperly used ought to be packaged in such a way that a user could try it out right off the shelf without having to even remove it from its package?

So far I haven't seen a reasonable defense of their packaging of the product. The simple explanation is that there isn't one.

Is this a horn targeted to kids? In other words, a horn for kids that packs an adult sound? If not, what more explanation do you need than it's targeted for an adult who understands what an air horn is and not a child??

I'm not following your logic here.

I'm not surprised.

Me either, it doesn't seem you put a lot of thought into it.

No thought is really necessary...it's all logic and common sense

 

[DrJ]

Maybe you should give her a trophy for outstanding pushing of a button.Just curious but where do you put yourself in the list of people to blame here?

Somewhere below the store/manufacturer who were somewhat negligent in the handling and distribution of the product, isn't that relatively clear?

I'm confused. Did the horn not work the way it was supposed to?I was under the impression that the horn worked as designed, and the injury was caused by user error.

Do you think a product that can cause serious personal injury when improperly used ought to be packaged in such a way that a user could try it out right off the shelf without having to even remove it from its package?

So far I haven't seen a reasonable defense of their packaging of the product. The simple explanation is that there isn't one.

Is this a horn targeted to kids? In other words, a horn for kids that packs an adult sound? If not, what more explanation do you need than it's targeted for an adult who understands what an air horn is and not a child??

I'm not following your logic here.

I'm not surprised.

Me either, it doesn't seem you put a lot of thought into it.

No thought is really necessary...it's all logic and common sense

Agreed. What's bothering me is that none of you have made a logical argument in defense of the package.

 

[The Commish]

Agreed. What's bothering me is that none of you have made a logical argument in defense of the package.

Because most of us see the packaging as what it is, packaging. It's not there as a last line of defense for parents who aren't paying attention to what their kids are doing. It's probably a good idea to actually bait the hook if you want to catch something. All you have right now is a hook in the water

 

[DrJ]

Agreed. What's bothering me is that none of you have made a logical argument in defense of the package.

Because most of us see the packaging as what it is, packaging. It's not there as a last line of defense for parents who aren't paying attention to what their kids are doing. It's probably a good idea to actually bait the hook if you want to catch something. All you have right now is a hook in the water

It seems that the law actually feels differently and considers it one aspect of product safety.

 

[PatsFanCT]

Alright, got a chance to see the video. As I stated, the packaging was open, but my wife was able to easily open and close the packaging with 2 fingers. In addition to the "Push Button" that is displayed on the horn, it's the prominent label on the packaging itself. Just doesn't seem appropriate for this sort of product.

Packaging is meant to sell a product, and contain, you know, warnings. It's not to keep kids from getting to them. I don't understand your logic.I get it, I have kids and if one of them hurts themselves, it hurts me even more. But you can't just blame other people and look for a lawsuit every time they get hurt. That's pretty irresponsible as a parent.

It's also part of the product safety for the consumer.

Really? According to who? Is this a fact?

 

[DrJ]

Alright, got a chance to see the video. As I stated, the packaging was open, but my wife was able to easily open and close the packaging with 2 fingers. In addition to the "Push Button" that is displayed on the horn, it's the prominent label on the packaging itself. Just doesn't seem appropriate for this sort of product.

Packaging is meant to sell a product, and contain, you know, warnings. It's not to keep kids from getting to them. I don't understand your logic.I get it, I have kids and if one of them hurts themselves, it hurts me even more. But you can't just blame other people and look for a lawsuit every time they get hurt. That's pretty irresponsible as a parent.

It's also part of the product safety for the consumer.

Really? According to who? Is this a fact?

Seems to be. Here's one link.

These standards includeanalysis to identify and eliminate the foreseeablemisuse of products. These standards not only applyto the product itself but also sales literature,packaging, instructions and warnings thataccompany it. Courts have found that compliancewith government or industry voluntary standardsconstitute design minimums and offer littleprotection in a lawsuit.

http://www.cna.com/vcm_content/CNA/internet/Static%20File%20for%20Download/risk_control/Exposure_Guides/Products_Liability.pdf

 

[The Commish]

Agreed. What's bothering me is that none of you have made a logical argument in defense of the package.

Because most of us see the packaging as what it is, packaging. It's not there as a last line of defense for parents who aren't paying attention to what their kids are doing. It's probably a good idea to actually bait the hook if you want to catch something. All you have right now is a hook in the water

It seems that the law actually feels differently and considers it one aspect of product safety.

What does the law say about the packaging if it's opened as you suggest in your initial post? As a company, I can "child proof" things until the cows come home. After it leaves my factory, if someone opens it, I'm guessing all bets are off.

 

[DrJ]

Agreed. What's bothering me is that none of you have made a logical argument in defense of the package.

Because most of us see the packaging as what it is, packaging. It's not there as a last line of defense for parents who aren't paying attention to what their kids are doing. It's probably a good idea to actually bait the hook if you want to catch something. All you have right now is a hook in the water

It seems that the law actually feels differently and considers it one aspect of product safety.

What does the law say about the packaging if it's opened as you suggest in your initial post? As a company, I can "child proof" things until the cows come home. After it leaves my factory, if someone opens it, I'm guessing all bets are off.

Seems there's an increasing number of liability lawsuits by people hurting themselves on packaging itself after they take the product home. So they need to take reasonable precautions in that event too.

 

[The Commish]

Agreed. What's bothering me is that none of you have made a logical argument in defense of the package.

Because most of us see the packaging as what it is, packaging. It's not there as a last line of defense for parents who aren't paying attention to what their kids are doing. It's probably a good idea to actually bait the hook if you want to catch something. All you have right now is a hook in the water

It seems that the law actually feels differently and considers it one aspect of product safety.

What does the law say about the packaging if it's opened as you suggest in your initial post? As a company, I can "child proof" things until the cows come home. After it leaves my factory, if someone opens it, I'm guessing all bets are off.

Seems there's an increasing number of liability lawsuits by people hurting themselves on packaging itself after they take the product home. So they need to take reasonable precautions in that event too.

Doesn't answer my question.

 

[hutchins929]

I scratched my balls today because they itched a little... I just cut my finger nails last night, but I still managed to cut my sac from a nail that wasn't properly cut. I'm gonna sue the maker of the fingernail clippers.

 

[DrJ]

Agreed. What's bothering me is that none of you have made a logical argument in defense of the package.

Because most of us see the packaging as what it is, packaging. It's not there as a last line of defense for parents who aren't paying attention to what their kids are doing. It's probably a good idea to actually bait the hook if you want to catch something. All you have right now is a hook in the water

It seems that the law actually feels differently and considers it one aspect of product safety.

What does the law say about the packaging if it's opened as you suggest in your initial post? As a company, I can "child proof" things until the cows come home. After it leaves my factory, if someone opens it, I'm guessing all bets are off.

Seems there's an increasing number of liability lawsuits by people hurting themselves on packaging itself after they take the product home. So they need to take reasonable precautions in that event too.

Doesn't answer my question.

You said all bets are off after it leaves the factory. Clearly that's not the case.

 

[The Commish]

Agreed. What's bothering me is that none of you have made a logical argument in defense of the package.

Because most of us see the packaging as what it is, packaging. It's not there as a last line of defense for parents who aren't paying attention to what their kids are doing. It's probably a good idea to actually bait the hook if you want to catch something. All you have right now is a hook in the water

It seems that the law actually feels differently and considers it one aspect of product safety.

What does the law say about the packaging if it's opened as you suggest in your initial post? As a company, I can "child proof" things until the cows come home. After it leaves my factory, if someone opens it, I'm guessing all bets are off.

Seems there's an increasing number of liability lawsuits by people hurting themselves on packaging itself after they take the product home. So they need to take reasonable precautions in that event too. In this case the packaging was far too flimsy to house the danger contained within.

How do you know if it was already opened?

 

[The Commish]

Agreed. What's bothering me is that none of you have made a logical argument in defense of the package.

Because most of us see the packaging as what it is, packaging. It's not there as a last line of defense for parents who aren't paying attention to what their kids are doing. It's probably a good idea to actually bait the hook if you want to catch something. All you have right now is a hook in the water

It seems that the law actually feels differently and considers it one aspect of product safety.

What does the law say about the packaging if it's opened as you suggest in your initial post? As a company, I can "child proof" things until the cows come home. After it leaves my factory, if someone opens it, I'm guessing all bets are off.

Seems there's an increasing number of liability lawsuits by people hurting themselves on packaging itself after they take the product home. So they need to take reasonable precautions in that event too.

Doesn't answer my question.

You said all bets are off after it leaves the factory. Clearly that's not the case.

You conveniently gloss over the "if someone opens it" part.

 

[PatsFanCT]

Alright, got a chance to see the video. As I stated, the packaging was open, but my wife was able to easily open and close the packaging with 2 fingers. In addition to the "Push Button" that is displayed on the horn, it's the prominent label on the packaging itself. Just doesn't seem appropriate for this sort of product.

Packaging is meant to sell a product, and contain, you know, warnings. It's not to keep kids from getting to them. I don't understand your logic.I get it, I have kids and if one of them hurts themselves, it hurts me even more. But you can't just blame other people and look for a lawsuit every time they get hurt. That's pretty irresponsible as a parent.

It's also part of the product safety for the consumer.

Really? According to who? Is this a fact?

Seems to be. Here's one link.

These standards includeanalysis to identify and eliminate the foreseeablemisuse of products. These standards not only applyto the product itself but also sales literature,packaging, instructions and warnings thataccompany it. Courts have found that compliancewith government or industry voluntary standardsconstitute design minimums and offer littleprotection in a lawsuit.

http://www.cna.com/vcm_content/CNA/internet/Static%20File%20for%20Download/risk_control/Exposure_Guides/Products_Liability.pdf

That's a private company to sell something, and your quote here doesn't say anything about packaging liability.I don't know, so I'm asking. Can a company really be liable because of packaging? It doesn't seem to make any sense, but if that's what you're suing for, you better make sure you know what you're talking about.

 

[DrJ]

Agreed. What's bothering me is that none of you have made a logical argument in defense of the package.

Because most of us see the packaging as what it is, packaging. It's not there as a last line of defense for parents who aren't paying attention to what their kids are doing. It's probably a good idea to actually bait the hook if you want to catch something. All you have right now is a hook in the water

It seems that the law actually feels differently and considers it one aspect of product safety.

What does the law say about the packaging if it's opened as you suggest in your initial post? As a company, I can "child proof" things until the cows come home. After it leaves my factory, if someone opens it, I'm guessing all bets are off.

Seems there's an increasing number of liability lawsuits by people hurting themselves on packaging itself after they take the product home. So they need to take reasonable precautions in that event too. In this case the packaging was far too flimsy to house the danger contained within.

How do you know if it was already opened?

In either event, I'd still say they didn't take reasonable precautions to foresee and prevent misuse of the product.

 

[DrJ]

Alright, got a chance to see the video. As I stated, the packaging was open, but my wife was able to easily open and close the packaging with 2 fingers. In addition to the "Push Button" that is displayed on the horn, it's the prominent label on the packaging itself. Just doesn't seem appropriate for this sort of product.

Packaging is meant to sell a product, and contain, you know, warnings. It's not to keep kids from getting to them. I don't understand your logic.I get it, I have kids and if one of them hurts themselves, it hurts me even more. But you can't just blame other people and look for a lawsuit every time they get hurt. That's pretty irresponsible as a parent.

It's also part of the product safety for the consumer.

Really? According to who? Is this a fact?

Seems to be. Here's one link.

These standards includeanalysis to identify and eliminate the foreseeablemisuse of products. These standards not only applyto the product itself but also sales literature,packaging, instructions and warnings thataccompany it. Courts have found that compliancewith government or industry voluntary standardsconstitute design minimums and offer littleprotection in a lawsuit.

http://www.cna.com/vcm_content/CNA/internet/Static%20File%20for%20Download/risk_control/Exposure_Guides/Products_Liability.pdf

That's a private company to sell something, and your quote here doesn't say anything about packaging liability.I don't know, so I'm asking. Can a company really be liable because of packaging? It doesn't seem to make any sense, but if that's what you're suing for, you better make sure you know what you're talking about.

Again, I won't represent myself. Should I elect to pursue this option, I'll find someone with expertise in this area.

 

[DrJ]

Agreed. What's bothering me is that none of you have made a logical argument in defense of the package.

Because most of us see the packaging as what it is, packaging. It's not there as a last line of defense for parents who aren't paying attention to what their kids are doing. It's probably a good idea to actually bait the hook if you want to catch something. All you have right now is a hook in the water

It seems that the law actually feels differently and considers it one aspect of product safety.

What does the law say about the packaging if it's opened as you suggest in your initial post? As a company, I can "child proof" things until the cows come home. After it leaves my factory, if someone opens it, I'm guessing all bets are off.

Seems there's an increasing number of liability lawsuits by people hurting themselves on packaging itself after they take the product home. So they need to take reasonable precautions in that event too.

Doesn't answer my question.

You said all bets are off after it leaves the factory. Clearly that's not the case.

You conveniently gloss over the "if someone opens it" part.

If someone opens it because the company didn't take reasonable precautions to seal it given the nature of the product, I don't see how that limits their liability.

 

[PatsFanCT]

Alright, got a chance to see the video. As I stated, the packaging was open, but my wife was able to easily open and close the packaging with 2 fingers. In addition to the "Push Button" that is displayed on the horn, it's the prominent label on the packaging itself. Just doesn't seem appropriate for this sort of product.

Packaging is meant to sell a product, and contain, you know, warnings. It's not to keep kids from getting to them. I don't understand your logic.I get it, I have kids and if one of them hurts themselves, it hurts me even more. But you can't just blame other people and look for a lawsuit every time they get hurt. That's pretty irresponsible as a parent.

It's also part of the product safety for the consumer.

Really? According to who? Is this a fact?

Seems to be. Here's one link.

These standards includeanalysis to identify and eliminate the foreseeablemisuse of products. These standards not only applyto the product itself but also sales literature,packaging, instructions and warnings thataccompany it. Courts have found that compliancewith government or industry voluntary standardsconstitute design minimums and offer littleprotection in a lawsuit.

http://www.cna.com/vcm_content/CNA/internet/Static%20File%20for%20Download/risk_control/Exposure_Guides/Products_Liability.pdf

That's a private company to sell something, and your quote here doesn't say anything about packaging liability.I don't know, so I'm asking. Can a company really be liable because of packaging? It doesn't seem to make any sense, but if that's what you're suing for, you better make sure you know what you're talking about.

Again, I won't represent myself. Should I elect to pursue this option, I'll find someone with expertise in this area.

So you're saying that even if packaging is not liable, you'll find a lawyer that will manipulate the system enough to get you a payout? And you're cool with that?

 

[DrJ]

We can go to legal-dictionary and we get similar stuff.

Negligence

The duty to guard against negligence and supply a safe product applies to everyone in the chain of distribution, including a manufacturer who carelessly makes a defective product, the company that uses the product to assemble something else without discovering an obvious defect, and the vendor who should exercise greater care in offering products for sale. These individuals owe a duty of care to anyone who is likely to be injured by such a product if it is defective, including the initial buyer, that person's family members, any bystanders, and persons who lease the item or hold it for the purchaser.

Additionally, the duty to exercise care involves all phases of getting a product to the consumers or users. The product must be designed in such a way that it is safe for its intended use. It must be inspected and tested at different stages, made from the appropriate materials, and assembled carefully. The product's container or packaging must be adequate. The manufacturer must also furnish adequate warnings and directions for use with the product. The seller is proscribed from misrepresenting the safety or character of the product and must disclose all defects.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Product+Liability

 

[DrJ]

Alright, got a chance to see the video. As I stated, the packaging was open, but my wife was able to easily open and close the packaging with 2 fingers. In addition to the "Push Button" that is displayed on the horn, it's the prominent label on the packaging itself. Just doesn't seem appropriate for this sort of product.

Packaging is meant to sell a product, and contain, you know, warnings. It's not to keep kids from getting to them. I don't understand your logic.I get it, I have kids and if one of them hurts themselves, it hurts me even more. But you can't just blame other people and look for a lawsuit every time they get hurt. That's pretty irresponsible as a parent.

It's also part of the product safety for the consumer.

Really? According to who? Is this a fact?

Seems to be. Here's one link.

These standards includeanalysis to identify and eliminate the foreseeablemisuse of products. These standards not only applyto the product itself but also sales literature,packaging, instructions and warnings thataccompany it. Courts have found that compliancewith government or industry voluntary standardsconstitute design minimums and offer littleprotection in a lawsuit.

http://www.cna.com/vcm_content/CNA/internet/Static%20File%20for%20Download/risk_control/Exposure_Guides/Products_Liability.pdf

That's a private company to sell something, and your quote here doesn't say anything about packaging liability.I don't know, so I'm asking. Can a company really be liable because of packaging? It doesn't seem to make any sense, but if that's what you're suing for, you better make sure you know what you're talking about.

Again, I won't represent myself. Should I elect to pursue this option, I'll find someone with expertise in this area.

So you're saying that even if packaging is not liable, you'll find a lawyer that will manipulate the system enough to get you a payout? And you're cool with that?

If the packaging is not liable, I don't think that's how it works.

 

[bakes]

And yes, I am aware the situation might have been avoidable if we leashed our children. There's also other ways it could be avoidable though, so I'm not sure that's reasonable.

Correct. The child will never again press a button without reading what it's for, so now it's avoidable. Lesson learned. Should it have been at a level where kids could reach it? Probably not.Reminds me of the time my wife and I were out roaming the countryside and found a maple syrup place. One of our friends walks up to the sugar shack and sees a button with a sign that says "PUSH BUTTON FOR WALT" He gets all excited and says "I wanna push it! I wanna push it!" and runs up to it. Presses the button and a 130 dB buzzer goes off that they probably heard the next county over. We all jumped a foot in the air and he said "JESUS CHRIST I JUST PISSED MYSELF!" Did he sue Walt? No, because it was his own damn fault.

 

[DrJ]

And yes, I am aware the situation might have been avoidable if we leashed our children. There's also other ways it could be avoidable though, so I'm not sure that's reasonable.

Correct. The child will never again press a button without reading what it's for, so now it's avoidable. Lesson learned. Should it have been at a level where kids could reach it? Probably not.Reminds me of the time my wife and I were out roaming the countryside and found a maple syrup place. One of our friends walks up to the sugar shack and sees a button with a sign that says "PUSH BUTTON FOR WALT" He gets all excited and says "I wanna push it! I wanna push it!" and runs up to it. Presses the button and a 130 dB buzzer goes off that they probably heard the next county over. We all jumped a foot in the air and he said "JESUS CHRIST I JUST PISSED MYSELF!" Did he sue Walt? No, because it was his own damn fault.

Yeah, that seems like the same thing.

 

[DrJ]

Alright, well thanks for the help guys, definitely have a better idea of how I should probably proceed.

 

[PatsFanCT]

We can go to legal-dictionary and we get similar stuff.

Negligence

The duty to guard against negligence and supply a safe product applies to everyone in the chain of distribution, including a manufacturer who carelessly makes a defective product, the company that uses the product to assemble something else without discovering an obvious defect, and the vendor who should exercise greater care in offering products for sale. These individuals owe a duty of care to anyone who is likely to be injured by such a product if it is defective, including the initial buyer, that person's family members, any bystanders, and persons who lease the item or hold it for the purchaser.

Additionally, the duty to exercise care involves all phases of getting a product to the consumers or users. The product must be designed in such a way that it is safe for its intended use. It must be inspected and tested at different stages, made from the appropriate materials, and assembled carefully. The product's container or packaging must be adequate. The manufacturer must also furnish adequate warnings and directions for use with the product. The seller is proscribed from misrepresenting the safety or character of the product and must disclose all defects.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Product+Liability

I think you're straining a muscle with that stretch.I hope your child is ok, but I hope you lose your lawsuit.

 

[PatsFanCT]

Alright, well thanks for the help guys, definitely have a better idea of how I should probably proceed.

If by proceed you mean drop the lawsuit, then I'm glad I could help.

 

[bigbottom]

We can go to legal-dictionary and we get similar stuff.

Negligence

The duty to guard against negligence and supply a safe product applies to everyone in the chain of distribution, including a manufacturer who carelessly makes a defective product, the company that uses the product to assemble something else without discovering an obvious defect, and the vendor who should exercise greater care in offering products for sale. These individuals owe a duty of care to anyone who is likely to be injured by such a product if it is defective, including the initial buyer, that person's family members, any bystanders, and persons who lease the item or hold it for the purchaser.

Additionally, the duty to exercise care involves all phases of getting a product to the consumers or users. The product must be designed in such a way that it is safe for its intended use. It must be inspected and tested at different stages, made from the appropriate materials, and assembled carefully. The product's container or packaging must be adequate. The manufacturer must also furnish adequate warnings and directions for use with the product. The seller is proscribed from misrepresenting the safety or character of the product and must disclose all defects.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Product+Liability

I think you're straining a muscle with that stretch.I hope your child is ok, but I hope you lose your lawsuit.

If his child is okay, there won't be much to collect in a lawsuit.

 

[bakes]

And yes, I am aware the situation might have been avoidable if we leashed our children. There's also other ways it could be avoidable though, so I'm not sure that's reasonable.

Correct. The child will never again press a button without reading what it's for, so now it's avoidable. Lesson learned. Should it have been at a level where kids could reach it? Probably not.Reminds me of the time my wife and I were out roaming the countryside and found a maple syrup place. One of our friends walks up to the sugar shack and sees a button with a sign that says "PUSH BUTTON FOR WALT" He gets all excited and says "I wanna push it! I wanna push it!" and runs up to it. Presses the button and a 130 dB buzzer goes off that they probably heard the next county over. We all jumped a foot in the air and he said "JESUS CHRIST I JUST PISSED MYSELF!" Did he sue Walt? No, because it was his own damn fault.

Yeah, that seems like the same thing.

Reminds me <> Exactly the same as. Maybe you had to be there to laugh like hell as the 5'5" dude who looked like one of the Wizard of Oz flying monkeys ran up the hill with a growing wet spot on his pants to appreciate it.

 

[Ursa M]

Looking at some of the sites that give information on packaging, almost all of them stress that safety is an important consideration and you have liability for failing to meet your obligations here.

Any credibility you had as a stand-on-your-own-feet conservative has fled shrieking for the exit. I flat can't believe you're serious about this.

 

[Tabasco Red]

Somewhere below the store/manufacturer who were somewhat negligent in the handling and distribution of the product, isn't that relatively clear?

I'm confused. Did the horn not work the way it was supposed to?I was under the impression that the horn worked as designed, and the injury was caused by user error.

Do you think a product that can cause serious personal injury when improperly used ought to be packaged in such a way that a user could try it out right off the shelf without having to even remove it from its package?

So far I haven't seen a reasonable defense of their packaging of the product. The simple explanation is that there isn't one.

Is this a horn targeted to kids? In other words, a horn for kids that packs an adult sound? If not, what more explanation do you need than it's targeted for an adult who understands what an air horn is and not a child??

I'm not following your logic here.

I'm not surprised.

Me either, it doesn't seem you put a lot of thought into it.

how big do you think this quote tree can grow?

As big as the board limits will allow, and then it'll give an error.

Looks like 10is the limit.

 

[Tabasco Red]

I'm confused. Did the horn not work the way it was supposed to?I was under the impression that the horn worked as designed, and the injury was caused by user error.

Do you think a product that can cause serious personal injury when improperly used ought to be packaged in such a way that a user could try it out right off the shelf without having to even remove it from its package?

So far I haven't seen a reasonable defense of their packaging of the product. The simple explanation is that there isn't one.

Is this a horn targeted to kids? In other words, a horn for kids that packs an adult sound? If not, what more explanation do you need than it's targeted for an adult who understands what an air horn is and not a child??

I'm not following your logic here.

I'm not surprised.

Me either, it doesn't seem you put a lot of thought into it.

how big do you think this quote tree can grow?

As big as the board limits will allow, and then it'll give an error.

Looks like 10is the limit.

For the record, I think it should default to two.

 

[The Commish]

Agreed. What's bothering me is that none of you have made a logical argument in defense of the package.

Because most of us see the packaging as what it is, packaging. It's not there as a last line of defense for parents who aren't paying attention to what their kids are doing. It's probably a good idea to actually bait the hook if you want to catch something. All you have right now is a hook in the water

It seems that the law actually feels differently and considers it one aspect of product safety.

What does the law say about the packaging if it's opened as you suggest in your initial post? As a company, I can "child proof" things until the cows come home. After it leaves my factory, if someone opens it, I'm guessing all bets are off.

Seems there's an increasing number of liability lawsuits by people hurting themselves on packaging itself after they take the product home. So they need to take reasonable precautions in that event too. In this case the packaging was far too flimsy to house the danger contained within.

How do you know if it was already opened?

In either event, I'd still say they didn't take reasonable precautions to foresee and prevent misuse of the product.

Who is "they" exactly? Company or store?

 

[bakes]

Oh for the love of.... IT'S A DAMN AIR HORN.

Look at the thing. It's a can with a trumpet attached. Pretty sure most of us saw what a trumpet does by the age of 6 - something that looks like that makes noise. There was no misuse - you push the button and a loud and instantaneous noise occurs. It worked as intended. My guess is that if you asked the kid (and no I'm not reading 7 pages to find out if this happened) why he pressed the button, he'll say "Looked like it would make noise!" And it made noise.

The human ear can endure short loud durations of sound and not incur permanent damage. Will it take a few days for the ringing to stop? Certainly. Permanent? Have him checked by an audiologist after a week or two. Hopefully the kid didn't incur permanent loss due to his actions. As someone who relies on his ears for his part-time work, I hope that his hearing is still perfect years from now.

 

[DrJ]

Oh for the love of.... IT'S A DAMN AIR HORN.Look at the thing. It's a can with a trumpet attached. Pretty sure most of us saw what a trumpet does by the age of 6 - something that looks like that makes noise. There was no misuse - you push the button and a loud and instantaneous noise occurs. It worked as intended. My guess is that if you asked the kid (and no I'm not reading 7 pages to find out if this happened) why he pressed the button, he'll say "Looked like it would make noise!" And it made noise. The human ear can endure short loud durations of sound and not incur permanent damage. Will it take a few days for the ringing to stop? Certainly. Permanent? Have him checked by an audiologist after a week or two. Hopefully the kid didn't incur permanent loss due to his actions. As someone who relies on his ears for his part-time work, I hope that his hearing is still perfect years from now.

Actually, her immediate response was confusion and her first words were "why was that so loud?". This thing is intended to be heard for a ####### mile. This isn't a trumpet. It's isn't one of those little air horns you see at a kid's party. I felt it on my ears from 10 feet away. Maybe this is why you guys aren't getting this - this thing is ridiculously dangerous for that packaging and to have inviting "push button" labels all over it. It wasn't reasonable for my kid to believe it would make this insane amount of noise, because it wasn't reasonable for it to be packaged in this fashion.

 

[mr fancypants]

We can go to legal-dictionary and we get similar stuff.

Negligence

The duty to guard against negligence and supply a safe product applies to everyone in the chain of distribution, including a manufacturer who carelessly makes a defective product, the company that uses the product to assemble something else without discovering an obvious defect, and the vendor who should exercise greater care in offering products for sale. These individuals owe a duty of care to anyone who is likely to be injured by such a product if it is defective, including the initial buyer, that person's family members, any bystanders, and persons who lease the item or hold it for the purchaser.

Additionally, the duty to exercise care involves all phases of getting a product to the consumers or users. The product must be designed in such a way that it is safe for its intended use. It must be inspected and tested at different stages, made from the appropriate materials, and assembled carefully. The product's container or packaging must be adequate. The manufacturer must also furnish adequate warnings and directions for use with the product. The seller is proscribed from misrepresenting the safety or character of the product and must disclose all defects.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Product+Liability

I think you're straining a muscle with that stretch.I hope your child is ok, but I hope you lose your lawsuit.

Better call Saul

http://www.bettercallsaul.com/

 

[bakes]

Oh for the love of.... IT'S A DAMN AIR HORN.

Look at the thing. It's a can with a trumpet attached. Pretty sure most of us saw what a trumpet does by the age of 6 - something that looks like that makes noise. There was no misuse - you push the button and a loud and instantaneous noise occurs. It worked as intended. My guess is that if you asked the kid (and no I'm not reading 7 pages to find out if this happened) why he pressed the button, he'll say "Looked like it would make noise!" And it made noise.

The human ear can endure short loud durations of sound and not incur permanent damage. Will it take a few days for the ringing to stop? Certainly. Permanent? Have him checked by an audiologist after a week or two. Hopefully the kid didn't incur permanent loss due to his actions. As someone who relies on his ears for his part-time work, I hope that his hearing is still perfect years from now.

Actually, her immediate response was confusion and her first words were "why was that so loud?". This thing is intended to be heard for a ####### mile. This isn't a trumpet. It's isn't one of those little air horns you see at a kid's party. I felt it on my ears from 10 feet away. Maybe this is why you guys aren't getting this - this thing is ridiculously dangerous for that packaging and to have inviting "push button" labels all over it. It wasn't reasonable for my kid to believe it would make this insane amount of noise, because it wasn't reasonable for it to be packaged in this fashion.

See, there's the problem. If it would have said "For Walt" then she would have known it was gonna be one loud SOB.