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Kobe Bryant Retires Tonight: Place In NBA History (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bruce Dickinson
- Start date
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
That's fair. As a guy growing up in rural VA, it was the opposite for me. I got to see the early Magic Lakers on ABC on Sundays, and then many of the playoff games, but it wasn't a daily following like the Kobe led cable TV era Lakers where I watched #8/24 on my TV 80 times per year.
timschochet
Footballguy
In a thread that's supposed to be discussing Kobe and all of the greatest players of all time and where he belongs on that list, what's with all this McGrady talk? I've seen McGrady mentioned a dozen times in this thread.
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Abraham
Footballguy
I think there is a case to be made that peak McGrady was on par with peak Kobe. Of course the peak McGrady didn't last long enough to actually make that a conversation. Seven years of being better than 24/6/5 is no joke. Yes, Wade and Kobe better for longer. But McGrady was really really good for a spell.
SWC
Bromigo
oh man it was always a dead nuts lock that he was trying to actually turn in to mike jordan sort of like he was optimiss prime and could transform from a guy who shot all the time in to mike but he could not in the end and that is the moral of the story take that to the bank brohans
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Top 8-15 all time, not sure of the exact spot.
Best player of his generation. I thought LeBron would kick him out of the top spot, but it doesn't look like that's happening.
2nd best shooting guard ever.
3rd greatest Laker of all time (behind Kareem and Magic), assuming we're just talking about their tenures as Lakers.
Scoring 81 points in the modern era as a shooting guard, where huge scoring numbers weren't a fluke for the player in question - that alone probably puts him in the top 10 all time for me.
Thanks for all the entertainment Mr. Bryant.
Best player of his generation. I thought LeBron would kick him out of the top spot, but it doesn't look like that's happening.
2nd best shooting guard ever.
3rd greatest Laker of all time (behind Kareem and Magic), assuming we're just talking about their tenures as Lakers.
Scoring 81 points in the modern era as a shooting guard, where huge scoring numbers weren't a fluke for the player in question - that alone probably puts him in the top 10 all time for me.
Thanks for all the entertainment Mr. Bryant.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
The love is mutual Ferris. The back and forth has made me a better fan. I appreciate you being a part of the journey.I feel like it's the end of an era for us and we should be splitting a basket of tacos and some beers over this.
Few positive thoughts on Kobe from my POV that probably got lost in the noise over the years:
* I grew to appreciate how Kobe embraced the game as theater. Even when it came off as contrived like the "underbite scowl", he knew it was more than just an athletic competition. It was quite the accomplishment how he could play the face in Staples and work heel on the road.
* Kobe was always compelling. Who followed the game closely over the last 20 years and was indifferent about Kobe Bryant? Love him or hate him, Kobe made you care.
* I LOVED watching him play in the 2009 season. Bouncing back from the Finals disappointment, working Gasol into the fold for a full season, Bynum starting to deliver on his promise. Kobe had other years with better numbers, but IMO that season saw Kobe as a true veteran leader - LAL had their share of bad breaks during that season, yet LAL won the title with only one Game 7. The combo of Kobe in the Game 7 in that HOU series where he sat back and let the big dogs eat against the Yao-less interior, followed up by that amazing Game 1 he had against DEN where he asserted his dominance over Billups and Iverson without killing the game plan or flow showed a depth to his game he hadn't seen often.
* Kobe is a lot more book-smart than a lot of people know. He got tracked wrong in school when he came back to the States after Jellybean was done playing in Europe. Kobe was a bright kid who spoke several languages, but his intelligence got hidden when he was tested on trivial things like spelling and idioms, and his introverted nature got quiet and shy misinterpreted as a lack a curiosity. But he got it worked out by high school and was a good student. It's widely believed had the NBA draft not been an option for Kobe directly out of high school he would have gone to Duke. If you've ever wondered how Kobe could have been more polarizing, there you go.
* I sincerely do think Kobe would be a great front-office executive if he goes that route. He's smart enough to understand the money side. He embraced the theater and worked hard on his brand as a player so you know he gets the marketing side. And he for damn sure knows what it takes to be player. I doubt he would have the patience to deal with the day-to-day of coaching, but IMO he would be a better choice for GM or team president that a lot of people in those positions now.
(ETA: Kobe is far from alone among all-time great players who wouldn't have the temperament to be coaches. Magic only lasted part of an interim season and didn't even want to be interviewed for the full-time gig. Bird knew he would only last three season tops and only put himself through it because he thought it would make him a better GM when he moved upstairs. West didn't last as a coach, and he's one of the best front-office execs in any pro sport. )
Nothin' but love for you, GunZ. Always respect for your passion, thankful for your forgiveness, and above all being such a good sport and great fan.
I absolutely understand why Kobe is so disliked by so many. Not just because he can be an #######, but the style in which his Laker teams won isn't aesthetically pleasing. Golden State's style is entertaining in and of itself and it's the way I learned the game growing up - ball movement, hit the open man, pass up good looks to get great looks, etc. In that way, the Lakers, especially the Kobe/Shaq Lakers, could be brutal to watch at times. Feed-the-post and wing ISO's are not as fun to watch.
At the same time, always being a glue guy myself in HS and AAU, I also appreciate and admire guys who have both the guts and the talent to take the rock and demand everyone else get out of the way. Anyone who has played a lot of hoops has been on the court at least a couple of times when you were that guy; for most of us it was in a gym with a few friends and a loss meant sitting out 3-4 games until you were up next. That feeling is intoxicating, even when there is nothing on the line. I can't imagine how it feels in road playoff games when the greatest athletes in the world who have put in thousands of hours of work, and with 3 minutes left everyone clears out because they want you to go ISO, because you're the alpha of the alphas. That's respect, and it's been fun to watch that for the last 20 years, even though lots of those ISOs didn't turn into buckets.
Anyway, it will seem silly to most, as the Kobe farewell is both anticlimactic and stale at this point, but it will be a sad night at Casa de GunZ this evening. In the silly world that is my sports experience, I'm not sure I'll get another Kobe. I'll be entertained and I'll have new favorites, but I doubt I'll ever be as vested and receive such a return on that investment as I did with Kobe.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Dunk on KG shoulda been higher.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
You won't get another Kobe. Neither will I. A player could come along and replicate Kobe's entire career, but it still wouldn't be the same for us because of how differently we view the world now. The lens of age is a mother####er.tommyGunZ said:
Part of me wishes he wouldn't retire. I've been hearing about and watching this guy for 20 years and if he retires, it's like I have to acknowledge those 20 years have passed.
Maybe KG will come back and play again next year and I can continue denying that time moves.
Peyton Marino
Footballguy
right. if you're gonna bring up anybody, I think it should be Iverson.timschochet said:
rodg12
Footballguy
Niles Standish
Footballguy
Basketball history.
I'd put Russell, Bird, Kareem, Magic, Shaq, Jordan, Duncan above him.
I'd put him in the same range as Moses, Hakeem, Wilt, Oscar, Dr J.
I'd expect Lebron to probably pass him and who knows with Curry. But based on his current trajectory he has a very good shot.
I'm not a big Kobe fan but apparently I have him somewhere between 8 and 13. Although to be honest this is off the top of my head I might be missing someone.
That puts him between 3rd and 5th guard.
And at Laker I'd have him 3rd to 4th depending on if Shaq counts as a Laker. He did win 3 titles there.
I'd put Russell, Bird, Kareem, Magic, Shaq, Jordan, Duncan above him.
I'd put him in the same range as Moses, Hakeem, Wilt, Oscar, Dr J.
I'd expect Lebron to probably pass him and who knows with Curry. But based on his current trajectory he has a very good shot.
I'm not a big Kobe fan but apparently I have him somewhere between 8 and 13. Although to be honest this is off the top of my head I might be missing someone.
That puts him between 3rd and 5th guard.
And at Laker I'd have him 3rd to 4th depending on if Shaq counts as a Laker. He did win 3 titles there.
Nice ESPN article about Kobe's mentors: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15193525/kobe-bryant-personal-mount-rushmore-mentors-starting-michael-jackson
And his best quotes from throughout his career: http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/page/instantawesome-KobeQuotes/wit-wisdom-words-kobe
My fave: "Better learn not to talk to me. You shake the tree, a leopard's gonna fall out."
And his best quotes from throughout his career: http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/page/instantawesome-KobeQuotes/wit-wisdom-words-kobe
My fave: "Better learn not to talk to me. You shake the tree, a leopard's gonna fall out."
rodg12
Footballguy
Brendon1215
Footballguy
Kobe is an incredible basketball player, but do people really think he's the greatest to ever play? <_<
Peyton Marino
Footballguy
what would a leopard be doing in a tree?
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Just doesn't feel right to have this thread without linking to the spectacular Most Valuable Puppets commercial series.
IIRC, that's David Alan Grier as Kobe, and Kenan Thompson as LeBron.
IIRC, that's David Alan Grier as Kobe, and Kenan Thompson as LeBron.
SWC
Bromigo
that is honestly just totally lame bromigo i am actually embarassed that anyone might ever think that is neat maybe they could have him conducting witness silence by paying them off then maybe it would be at least a little true take that to the bank
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
SWC
Bromigo
actually i am glad it is nice to not see milwaukee in any way related to that pos the company you keep and all that take that to teh bank brohan
Gr00vus
Footballguy
19. June 2010, after winning his fifth title: "I just got one more than Shaq. So you can take that to the bank."
Well, I guess we know who SWC is. It all makes sense now.
My favorite Kobe stretch ever is those 7 games leading up to his Achilles tear, the last time Kobe was Kobe. He refuses to let the Lakers miss the playoffs after assembling the Kobe-Pau-Howard-Nash team that was favored to win the title. So down the stretch he plays 45.6 minutes a game despite barely being able to walk when he got off the court (one game he was on crutches), playing through aches and injuries to average 28.9 pts, 8.4 ast, 7.3 reb, 2.1 stl and a block right up until his body broke, after which he still hit those needed FTs. The Lakers won 6 of those 7 to eek out the 8th seed, and Kobe pushed himself to the breaking point to make it happen.
The Future Champs
Footballguy
There's no way Kobe was more important to the Lakers than Kareem. In 20 years you'll pretend you never wrote that.
End of an era
For me, it signifies the ending of a great era of superstars - Duncan, Kobe, Garnett, Nowitzki, Nash, Pierce, Iverson, Allen, McGrady - the last ones drafted before the turn of the century. Though Duncan and arguably Garnett were better players, Kobe was the most visible and the face of the league. Their careers were just taking off when the Jordan/Olajuwon/Ewing/Malone/Barkley era was coming to a close. Both groups were drafted over a relatively small period and centered on the strength of all-time great drafts, 1984 and 1996.
For me, it signifies the ending of a great era of superstars - Duncan, Kobe, Garnett, Nowitzki, Nash, Pierce, Iverson, Allen, McGrady - the last ones drafted before the turn of the century. Though Duncan and arguably Garnett were better players, Kobe was the most visible and the face of the league. Their careers were just taking off when the Jordan/Olajuwon/Ewing/Malone/Barkley era was coming to a close. Both groups were drafted over a relatively small period and centered on the strength of all-time great drafts, 1984 and 1996.
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To me, Kareem is the greater overall player, but Kobe spending all 20 seasons on the Lakers makes him the greater Laker.
Short Corner
Footballguy
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
11-20 range overall, though closer to 20 I think
2-5 for SGs but 6-10 for all guards
2-5 for his peer group. Clearly behind Duncan, LeBron, Shaq at a minimum
I voted 4 for his tenure as a Laker behind Kareem, Magic and Jerry West. I'll give him a nod over Shaq here since he played his whole career with LA. vs. only 8 for Shaq, though Shaq was obviously the much better player for the majority of their shared time together
2-5 for SGs but 6-10 for all guards
2-5 for his peer group. Clearly behind Duncan, LeBron, Shaq at a minimum
I voted 4 for his tenure as a Laker behind Kareem, Magic and Jerry West. I'll give him a nod over Shaq here since he played his whole career with LA. vs. only 8 for Shaq, though Shaq was obviously the much better player for the majority of their shared time together
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Listen, kid. Kareem's out there busting his butt EVERY NIGHT. Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes.
I'd say he has the reputation of being aloof and surly every bit as much as Kobe. But Kobe has been a loyal Laker. Yeah, he got fed up playing with the likes of Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm and Smush Parker, but since then he's said he would never play with another team. Even if it would have been better for him these past few years.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Even before the Colorado incident and that comical last few years I was never really a big Kobe fan - something about him I didn't like. I think it had to do with the MJ comparisons - and I'm not a huge MJ fan but grew up in the 80's and early 90's and MJ was (and is) a god. Still, he was a great player - I ranked him 11-20 overall and 6-10 in guards.
I really hate the Black Mamba crap. Forced nicknames always suck. Kobe is a cool enough name, just stick with Kobe.
PS - I always liked his personality(rape aside, he said she said stuff can't be judged, so I'll leave it alone). He always seemed witty and intelligent, and his work with Cabbie is great TV. I might be the only guy who thinks the player is overrated, but the person is underrated(of course assuming there is no rape).
PS - I always liked his personality(rape aside, he said she said stuff can't be judged, so I'll leave it alone). He always seemed witty and intelligent, and his work with Cabbie is great TV. I might be the only guy who thinks the player is overrated, but the person is underrated(of course assuming there is no rape).
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Peyton Marino
Footballguy
Say what you want about Wilt, but there's a guy that allegedly had sex with thousands of women. Never raped a single one. Speaks volumes imo.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
h/t to the crew at Basketball-Reference for this one...
Kobe Bryant is the #3 scorer among players who wore jersey #8, and the #3 scorer among players who wore jersey #24. And that was achieved as if Kobe8 and Kobe24 were two different people, stopping his #8 jersey points count when he switched jerseys and resetting his points to zero when he donned #24.
in case you were wondering, the #8s ahead of Kobe are Walt Bellamy and Eddie Johnson.
The #24s are Rick Barry and Reggie Theus.
Kobe Bryant is the #3 scorer among players who wore jersey #8, and the #3 scorer among players who wore jersey #24. And that was achieved as if Kobe8 and Kobe24 were two different people, stopping his #8 jersey points count when he switched jerseys and resetting his points to zero when he donned #24.
in case you were wondering, the #8s ahead of Kobe are Walt Bellamy and Eddie Johnson.
The #24s are Rick Barry and Reggie Theus.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
He may not be the #1 NBA player of all time, but he's #1 in the hearts of all the haters.
SWC
Bromigo
hes numero three out of the guys that wore number 8 and also number three in life and if you will all recall numero three is code for diareha take that to the bank bromigos
The Commish
Footballguy
He's still perpetuating that lie about being "snubbed" by the Hornets? I feel bad for that guy. 
So deluded.
So deluded. 
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Hubie Brown just said Kobe had "ridiculous athletic talent". :cough:
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
5 in a row! Kobe is on FIRE!
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