Ladies and Gentlemen (1 Viewer)

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Can you really say you would take Darrell over Holt or CJ?

Depends on the situation...Moss/TO have proven upside. If I want upside Jackson gets bumped down to the #6 range. If I want surefire production he is #2.

Didnt ask about Moss/TO with all the Q's.What about Holt?

Tory missed 2 games and had a rookie and bum for part of his season as QB and still had 100/1300

Bulger hasn't exactly been an ironman...QB risk is evident. Also, I believe any switch from Martz equals a decrease in opportunity for WRs. Whether or not that equates into lesser targets for Holt is yet to be seen, but I would bet that it does. Yes Linehan knows he's the man, but that doesn't necessarily equate into Holt = #1 WR in FF.

Is Linehan's O that big a drop off from Martz's? He's had some solid WR's fantasy stats with him being the OC, Chambers best FF season, Moss etc.Agree with your Bulger points.

 

[Fullback Fro]

TO will blow up next year.

Depends on where he lands doesn't it?Hard to see him blowing up in ATL.

Yes, it surely does, but that being said, if he lands with any of the front runners, Dallas, Denver, KC, he will be a monster. Plus I think he stays headgood for 1 full year before his cranium betrays himm again.

 

[David Yudkin]

Can you really say you would take Darrell over Holt or CJ?

Depends on the situation...Moss/TO have proven upside. If I want upside Jackson gets bumped down to the #6 range. If I want surefire production he is #2.

Didnt ask about Moss/TO with all the Q's.What about Holt?

Tory missed 2 games and had a rookie and bum for part of his season as QB and still had 100/1300

Bulger hasn't exactly been an ironman...QB risk is evident. Also, I believe any switch from Martz equals a decrease in opportunity for WRs. Whether or not that equates into lesser targets for Holt is yet to be seen, but I would bet that it does. Yes Linehan knows he's the man, but that doesn't necessarily equate into Holt = #1 WR in FF.

Holt has averaged 11.6 ppg over his career and has seen the ups and downs of Warner, Bulger, Trent Green, and Chris Chandler. But also other less notables including Joe Germaine, Paul Justin, Jamie Martin, Scott Covington, and Ryan Fitzpatrick. I can't see Holt's numbers dipping too much if at all.

 

[Keg]

There are more ?s surrounding the top WRs this yr then i can ever remember...

the trick isnt to get #2 value out of the #7 WR but to get #1 type production from the spot that everyone got SSmith last yr which was around round 4

WRs that fall in that realm?

Roy Williams, Andre Johnson,Chambers,Bennett

my money is gonna be on chambers to put up top 5 type numbers this yr and if they sign a QB then he could be #2

 

[Bri]

1. Steve Smif

drumroll please....

2. Darrell Jackson

crazysee Holt

see Holts stats

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

1.  Steve Smif

drumroll please....

2. Darrell Jackson

crazysee Holt

see Holts stats

Now our friend Lhucks isn't crazy.Djax represents some important factors when doing your rankings:

#1 - Qb stability, check

#2 - Coach/OC/ offense stability, check

#3 - unquestioned #1 target in passing game? check.

The following cannot say that to questions 1 & 2 - Holt,RMoss, TO, ChadJ (palmer).

Djax may very well finish #2 in WR FFL point production.

The real point is to recognize the value, grab both you rb's while the "WR studs" get taken then grab Djax as your WR1 for the best value.

I already know my draft spot in one league and at the 3 spot I'm taking one of the big 3, then best RB available in round 2 then scoop Djax in round 3 with 3.03. I guarantee he's there.

 

[SSOG]

Okay, so a few people think Chad Johnson should be ranked higher.

What about the Palmer risk??

Well, Chad Johnson's 2003 season with Kitna at QB was easily better than the best season of Jackson's career.

Kitna is gone though.

Doesn't matter. Kitna was a whole lot of nothing special until Chad Johnson's phenom season. It's possible that Kitna just suddenly became good... and it's possible that Chad Johnson just suddenly made Kitna look good. Regardless, you can't get in a much worse situation that playing with a first-year starting QB... and Chad Johnson still had top 10 numbers in such a situation.At this point, I have no qualms about putting Johnson in the "He'll get his no matter WHO is at QB" category, along with Torry Holt, Randy Moss (assuming he's not injured), and Terrell Owens.

 

[LHUCKS]

1.  Steve Smif

drumroll please....

2. Darrell Jackson

crazysee Holt

see Holts stats

Now our friend Lhucks isn't crazy.Djax represents some important factors when doing your rankings:

#1 - Qb stability, check

#2 - Coach/OC/ offense stability, check

#3 - unquestioned #1 target in passing game? check.

The following cannot say that to questions 1 & 2 - Holt,RMoss, TO, ChadJ (palmer).

Djax may very well finish #2 in WR FFL point production.

The real point is to recognize the value, grab both you rb's while the "WR studs" get taken then grab Djax as your WR1 for the best value.

I already know my draft spot in one league and at the 3 spot I'm taking one of the big 3, then best RB available in round 2 then scoop Djax in round 3 with 3.03. I guarantee he's there.

 

[Bri]

Now our friend Lhucks isn't crazy.

this should be a poll Seriously, I like his away from the norm way of thinkin'

 

[joffer]

1.  Steve Smif

drumroll please....

2. Darrell Jackson

crazysee Holt

see Holts stats

Now our friend Lhucks isn't crazy.Djax represents some important factors when doing your rankings:

#1 - Qb stability, check

#2 - Coach/OC/ offense stability, check

#3 - unquestioned #1 target in passing game? check.

#4 - hands like ping pong paddles, check

The following cannot say that to questions 1 & 2 - Holt,RMoss, TO, ChadJ (palmer).

disagree on Holt

 

[-OZ-]

I don't have a problem with the projection, it's somewhat reasonable, but with the loss of Hutchinson, IMO the whole offense goes down a bit.

I'll say my top 5

#81*

#89

#85

#18

#11

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

1.  Steve Smif

drumroll please....

2. Darrell Jackson

crazysee Holt

see Holts stats

Now our friend Lhucks isn't crazy.Djax represents some important factors when doing your rankings:

#1 - Qb stability, check

#2 - Coach/OC/ offense stability, check

#3 - unquestioned #1 target in passing game? check.

#4 - hands like ping pong paddles, check

The following cannot say that to questions 1 & 2 - Holt,RMoss, TO, ChadJ (palmer).

disagree on Holt

I agree that Holt should produce no matter what. But he has a new Coach/OC with a new system.

Plus Bulger has hurt his shoulder three times the past two years.

 

[joffer]

Seriously, I like his away from the norm way of thinkin'

I agree, it's out of the box and good discussion, even if i think the prediction is too high.

 

[David Yudkin]

Jackson runs too upright.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Jackson runs too upright.

 

[LHUCKS]

Okay, so a few people think Chad Johnson should be ranked higher. 

What about  the Palmer risk??

Well, Chad Johnson's 2003 season with Kitna at QB was easily better than the best season of Jackson's career.

Kitna is gone though.

Regardless, you can't get in a much worse situation that playing with a first-year starting QB... and Chad Johnson still had top 10 numbers in such a situation.

Rookie QBs often lock onto their best WR.

 

[LHUCKS]

Jackson runs too upright.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Okay, so a few people think Chad Johnson should be ranked higher. 

What about  the Palmer risk??

Well, Chad Johnson's 2003 season with Kitna at QB was easily better than the best season of Jackson's career.

Kitna is gone though.

link to him signing with another team?

 

[LHUCKS]

Okay, so a few people think Chad Johnson should be ranked higher. 

What about  the Palmer risk??

Well, Chad Johnson's 2003 season with Kitna at QB was easily better than the best season of Jackson's career.

Kitna is gone though.

link to him signing with another team?

correction: it is likely that Kitna is gone.Until I know that Palmer will be starting week 1 or that Kitna remainst the backup, I refuse to rank CJ in the top 3. With a healthy Palmer he's right there.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Seriously, I like his away from the norm way of thinkin'

I agree, it's out of the box and good discussion, even if i think the prediction is too high.

Maybe it's just this post, but really click on lhucks llinks to his 05 rankings. Not too much out of the norm in there.

 

[SSOG]

Rookie QBs often lock onto their best WR.

Great, so when they're managing to throw the ball on-target, and not getting it intercepted, and not getting sacked, and not handing the ball off to keep them from making too many decisions, then they'll be able to throw the ball to their best WR as he runs short little dink-and-dunk patterns.I did a brief perusal of Pro-football-reference and didn't find a single WR playing with a first-year starting QB in the past 7 years who topped either Johnson's 1274 yards or 9 TDs (although in Pennington's first year, Coles got ~1260 yards and Chrebet got 9 TDs). In fact, the second-best season by a WR with a first-year starting QB (at least that I found in cursory examination)... was Steve Smith in Delhomme's first season. He had 7 fewer receptions for 164 fewer yards and 2 fewer TDs.

Top-10 WRs are almost always the product of an experienced QB. The fact that Johnson made it without one shows that he's a stud WR capable of making it with ANYONE. At least, in my opinion it does.

 

[joffer]

Seriously, I like his away from the norm way of thinkin'

I agree, it's out of the box and good discussion, even if i think the prediction is too high.

Maybe it's just this post, but really click on lhucks llinks to his 05 rankings. Not too much out of the norm in there.

oh, i was just talking about this prediction. I disagree with it, but it's not too far out there and it's a good discussion.

 

[LHUCKS]

Top-10 WRs are almost always the product of an experienced QB. The fact that Johnson made it without one shows that he's a stud WR capable of making it with ANYONE. At least, in my opinion it does.

Nobody is arguing that CJ isn't a stud...as a matter of fact he's my #4 right now. I'm just not sold on the QB situation and I don't believe there is a WR in the NFL(including a healthy Moss) that is likely to put up top 3 numbers without decent QB play. Yes it has happened, but I'm not going to bet on it.

 

[Bri]

Top-10 WRs are almost always the product of an experienced QB. The fact that Johnson made it without one shows that he's a stud WR capable of making it with ANYONE. At least, in my opinion it does.

Nobody is arguing that CJ isn't a stud...as a matter of fact he's my #4 right now. I'm just not sold on the QB situation and I don't believe there is a WR in the NFL(including a healthy Moss) that is likely to put up top 3 numbers without decent QB play. Yes it has happened, but I'm not going to bet on it.

well then what starting QBs would you say aren't decent?

 

[purestrength]

After reading this thread and the names being mentioned, it looks like I'll have no trouble picking up Marvin Harrison in thie third round of 12-team redrafts.

I'm relieved.

 

[SSOG]

After reading this thread and the names being mentioned, it looks like I'll have no trouble picking up Marvin Harrison in thie third round of 12-team redrafts.

I'm relieved.

I don't think Harrison is underrated. He's finished 8th, 5th, and 5th over the last 3 seasons (the 8th was most recent). Reggie Wayne just got resigned and will remain to take away from his production. I think Harrison is a near-lock to finish in the top-10, but I'd be surprised to see him in the top-5. Which means he'll be a nice pickup in third round. He's not likely to outperform his draft position... but he's not likely to underperform it, either.

 

[ratbast]

DJax has a higher floor than many and Harrison has probably the highest floor in our hobby. I do argue that Djax ceiling is lower than most "stud" WRs, and Harrison's is #1.

DJax? Top 10 sure. Top 5, nahh. Top 15 probably.

(assuming good health)

 

[Wingnut]

TO will blow up next year.

My top 5

TO

S.Smiff

Holt

Fitz

DJAX

You GOTTA have #85 in there somewhere....Id say with Edge on board in Arizona, Fitz could fall a bit in production...Fitz and Boldin both had 100 catches last year with almost no running game....I dont see him falling off dramatically, but I see him closer to WR10 than WR 5.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

1. Steve Smif

drumroll please....

2. Darrell Jackson

Good thread. DJax is not in my top five, so this gives me a different perspective to think about.

 

[Carpe135]

I don't have a problem with the projection, it's somewhat reasonable, but with the loss of Hutchinson, IMO the whole offense goes down a bit.

I'll say my top 5

#81*

#89

#85

#18

#11

Now we're talking, OZ. I agree, there is no way Roy Williams doesn't make it in the top 5 with Martz in town.

 

[LHUCKS]

I don't have a problem with the projection, it's somewhat reasonable, but with the loss of Hutchinson, IMO the whole offense goes down a bit.

I'll say my top 5

#81*

#89

#85

#18

#11

Now we're talking, OZ. I agree, there is no way Roy Williams doesn't make it in the top 5 with Martz in town.

You can have the greatest system in the world but if Joey Harrington is at the helm you have to have a little sense of .Roy will not be in my top 10 from the looks of things.

 

[Arm Chair Express]

TO will blow up next year.

My top 5

TO

S.Smiff

Holt

Fitz

DJAX

You GOTTA have #85 in there somewhere....Id say with Edge on board in Arizona, Fitz could fall a bit in production...Fitz and Boldin both had 100 catches last year with almost no running game....I dont see him falling off dramatically, but I see him closer to WR10 than WR 5.

I think them playing from behind all the time had just as much to do with their pass attempts than lack of running game did. That being said, if they don't fix their defense they should still get plenty of balls thrown around there.

 

[AB in DC]

disagree on Holt

Plus Bulger has hurt his shoulder three times the past two years.

Bump for Frerotte signing.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I don't have a problem with the projection, it's somewhat reasonable, but with the loss of Hutchinson, IMO the whole offense goes down a bit.

I'll say my top 5

#81*

#89

#85

#18

#11

Now we're talking, OZ. I agree, there is no way Roy Williams doesn't make it in the top 5 with Martz in town.

You can have the greatest system in the world but if Joey Harrington is at the helm you have to have a little sense of .Roy will not be in my top 10 from the looks of things.

Bump for Roy with Kitna/ McCown.Haven't thought about it alot but he's still not top 10.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

he's got less risk than Holt or CJ?  His hands are average at best, and there is some injury history.

Edit: the highest i can see myself ranking him right now is WR6.

I don't think his injury risk is any higher than the other top WRs.As for Holt's risk, new system and Bulger injury history scare me.

As for CJ's risk...Carson Palmer.

Zero risk isn't the right answer........he was out large chunks from last season. He's no Brett Farve or Peyton Manning, those guys are as close to zero risk as you can get, not a player who missed multiple games just last season.If everything falls the right way for him, he could possibly be No.2. But I can say that for a handful of Wrs in he NFL right now.

 

[redman]

Where do you see Vince Young on this list?

At #6- no, #16.

 

[LHUCKS]

I don't have a problem with the projection, it's somewhat reasonable, but with the loss of Hutchinson, IMO the whole offense goes down a bit.

I'll say my top 5

#81*

#89

#85

#18

#11

Now we're talking, OZ. I agree, there is no way Roy Williams doesn't make it in the top 5 with Martz in town.

You can have the greatest system in the world but if Joey Harrington is at the helm you have to have a little sense of .Roy will not be in my top 10 from the looks of things.

Bump for Roy with Kitna/ McCown.Haven't thought about it alot but he's still not top 10.

Roy's stock definitely goes up IMHO. I knew Martz was too smart to give Suckington another chance.

 

[LHUCKS]

he's got less risk than Holt or CJ?  His hands are average at best, and there is some injury history.

Edit: the highest i can see myself ranking him right now is WR6.

I don't think his injury risk is any higher than the other top WRs.As for Holt's risk, new system and Bulger injury history scare me.

As for CJ's risk...Carson Palmer.

Zero risk isn't the right answer........he was out large chunks from last season. He's no Brett Farve or Peyton Manning, those guys are as close to zero risk as you can get, not a player who missed multiple games just last season.If everything falls the right way for him, he could possibly be No.2. But I can say that for a handful of Wrs in he NFL right now.

I was embelleshing a bit, buthHe has the least amount of risk of all the WRs in the top 10 IMHO.(after Smith) Although I love the Frerotte signing for St. Louis and what it means for Holt.

 

[GRIDIRON ASSASSIN]

The Seahawks really missed D-Jax while he was out last year.

They went on to win NINE straight games with ZERO losses.

He'll be Top 10.... Not Top 2 though...

 

[fruity pebbles]

Jackson's been in the league 6 years with basically the same team around him the last several. He's never had 1200 yards in a season and never had double digit TDs. Can't see the reasoning behind why he'll be the #2 receiver this year. Maybe top 10, but #2 doesn't seem likely to me.

 

[LHUCKS]

Jackson's been in the league 6 years with basically the same team around him the last several. He's never had 1200 yards in a season and never had double digit TDs. Can't see the reasoning behind why he'll be the #2 receiver this year. Maybe top 10, but #2 doesn't seem likely to me.

'05 ppg...next question

 

[-OZ-]

I don't have a problem with the projection, it's somewhat reasonable, but with the loss of Hutchinson, IMO the whole offense goes down a bit.

I'll say my top 5

#81*

#89

#85

#18

#11

Now we're talking, OZ. I agree, there is no way Roy Williams doesn't make it in the top 5 with Martz in town.

You can have the greatest system in the world but if Joey Harrington is at the helm you have to have a little sense of .Roy will not be in my top 10 from the looks of things.

Bump for Roy with Kitna/ McCown.Haven't thought about it alot but he's still not top 10.

Roy's stock definitely goes up IMHO. I knew Martz was too smart to give Suckington another chance.

His stock may rise, but he isn't top 10 with any of those QBs. I know Carpe was joking, but you others know who #11 is here, right?

 

[fruity pebbles]

Jackson's been in the league 6 years with basically the same team around him the last several. He's never had 1200 yards in a season and never had double digit TDs. Can't see the reasoning behind why he'll be the #2 receiver this year. Maybe top 10, but #2 doesn't seem likely to me.

'05 ppg...next question

He's didn't play in enough games to project out with any level of accuracy. As long as Shaun Alexander's on the team, there won't be enough TDs left to spread around to make him #2.

 

[Challenge Everything]

Jackson's been in the league 6 years with basically the same team around him the last several. He's never had 1200 yards in a season and never had double digit TDs. Can't see the reasoning behind why he'll be the #2 receiver this year. Maybe top 10, but #2 doesn't seem likely to me.

'05 ppg...next question

He's didn't play in enough games to project out with any level of accuracy. As long as Shaun Alexander's on the team, there won't be enough TDs left to spread around to make him #2.

Way to go out on a limb LHUCKS.In response to the quote though. Shaun Alexander has one person to thank for his MVP season as well as his large new contract. That person is Darrell Jackson. Had Jackson not been hurt early in the year, no way does Alexander have the year he did.

 

[-OZ-]

Jackson's been in the league 6 years with basically the same team around him the last several. He's never had 1200 yards in a season and never had double digit TDs. Can't see the reasoning behind why he'll be the #2 receiver this year. Maybe top 10, but #2 doesn't seem likely to me.

'05 ppg...next question

He's didn't play in enough games to project out with any level of accuracy. As long as Shaun Alexander's on the team, there won't be enough TDs left to spread around to make him #2.

Way to go out on a limb LHUCKS.In response to the quote though. Shaun Alexander has one person to thank for his MVP season as well as his large new contract. That person is Darrell Jackson. Had Jackson not been hurt early in the year, no way does Alexander have the year he did.

Entirely possible, but impossible to determine.Seems to me that the record he broke was made by a RB who had to "share" TDs with the best TE in the game at the time, and an ok WR.

How does the pending loss of Hutch impact DJax's projections?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I don't have a problem with the projection, it's somewhat reasonable, but with the loss of Hutchinson, IMO the whole offense goes down a bit.

I'll say my top 5

#81*

#89

#85

#18

#11

Now we're talking, OZ. I agree, there is no way Roy Williams doesn't make it in the top 5 with Martz in town.

You can have the greatest system in the world but if Joey Harrington is at the helm you have to have a little sense of .Roy will not be in my top 10 from the looks of things.

Bump for Roy with Kitna/ McCown.Haven't thought about it alot but he's still not top 10.

Roy's stock definitely goes up IMHO. I knew Martz was too smart to give Suckington another chance.

His stock may rise, but he isn't top 10 with any of those QBs. I know Carpe was joking, but you others know who #11 is here, right?

nope enlighten me

 

[Bri]

In response to the quote though. Shaun Alexander has one person to thank for his MVP season as well as his large new contract. That person is Darrell Jackson. Had Jackson not been hurt early in the year, no way does Alexander have the year he did.

I'd bet 5 linemen and a FB disagree with you

 

[Bri]

So Lhucks, you're planning to get him late 2nd? Early 3rd?

Will you draft him before a 2nd RB? Before Gates?

 

[LHUCKS]

So Lhucks, you're planning to get him late 2nd? Early 3rd?

Will you draft him before a 2nd RB? Before Gates?

I'll draft him when I think I can get him. If the "experts" have him as fourth rounder I'll grab him late 3rd. If they have him as a 3rd rounder I'll draft him early 3rd unless there's better value. Cant say if I'd draft him before a 2nd RB without knowing draft specifics.

 

[SSOG]

So Lhucks, you're planning to get him late 2nd? Early 3rd?

Will you draft him before a 2nd RB? Before Gates?

I'll draft him when I think I can get him. If the "experts" have him as fourth rounder I'll grab him late 3rd. If they have him as a 3rd rounder I'll draft him early 3rd unless there's better value. Cant say if I'd draft him before a 2nd RB without knowing draft specifics.

That's not a very ringing endorsement. The only way I wouldn't pick the #2 WR on my board before my second RB is if sheer idiocy had allowed one of my top-10 RBs to fall to the second round (and it wasn't a sleeper RB who I could grab later, like Ron Dayne).