Ladies and Gentlemen (1 Viewer)

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

So Lhucks, you're planning to get him late 2nd? Early 3rd?

Will you draft him before a 2nd RB? Before Gates?

I'll draft him when I think I can get him. If the "experts" have him as fourth rounder I'll grab him late 3rd. If they have him as a 3rd rounder I'll draft him early 3rd unless there's better value. Cant say if I'd draft him before a 2nd RB without knowing draft specifics.

That's not a very ringing endorsement. The only way I wouldn't pick the #2 WR on my board before my second RB is if sheer idiocy had allowed one of my top-10 RBs to fall to the second round (and it wasn't a sleeper RB who I could grab later, like Ron Dayne).

ya had me until you said Ron Dayne

 

[joffer]

Jackson's been in the league 6 years with basically the same team around him the last several. He's never had 1200 yards in a season and never had double digit TDs. Can't see the reasoning behind why he'll be the #2 receiver this year. Maybe top 10, but #2 doesn't seem likely to me.

'05 ppg...next question

which ranked where again?

 

[TheFanatic]

How's his knee?

He really did look good last season when he was healthy.

looked fine in the playoffs...and now he's got 9 months to strengthen it.Not a concern.

Are you concerned at all with his 13 yards per reception in the regular season? That seems pretty low to me. I don't have the stats for the playoffs. Did his YPC go up in the playoffs?

 

[SSOG]

ya had me until you said Ron Dayne

Laugh all you want. I'm sure it would have sounded equally silly had I used Mike Anderson's name instead at this point last season, but we all saw how that worked out. I stand by my stance- Denver's starting RB is a top-10 RB, and I currently believe that Ron Dayne will be Denver's starting RB. Argue all you want, that's what I believe at this point in time.Anyway, the names are irrelevant. Let's say I think Chester Taylor will be a top-10 RB, but he's not being drafted until the 5th round. That's another time when I'd grab my #2 rated WR before a top-10 RB on my board.

Basic concept: #2 overall WR trumps second RB, unless that RB is a top-10 commodity that I don't think will last until my next pick. I don't often see those in the second round, though.

 

[joffer]

ya had me until you said Ron Dayne

Laugh all you want. I'm sure it would have sounded equally silly had I used Mike Anderson's name instead at this point last season

true, Anderson would have elicited a chuckle, but Dayne deserves a bust-o-gut, #### myself, full-fledged:

 

[LHUCKS]

How's his knee?

He really did look good last season when he was healthy.

looked fine in the playoffs...and now he's got 9 months to strengthen it.Not a concern.

Are you concerned at all with his 13 yards per reception in the regular season? That seems pretty low to me. I don't have the stats for the playoffs. Did his YPC go up in the playoffs?

His YPC and TD/rec ratio definitely limit his upside, but he has other variables that increase his draft worthiness when combined with the risks that the other WRs at the top seem to have this year....hence, the 3 page discussion concerning the ranking.

 

[Assani Fisher]

1.  Steve Smif

drumroll please....

2. Darrell Jackson

crazysee Holt

see Holts stats

Now our friend Lhucks isn't crazy.Djax represents some important factors when doing your rankings:

#1 - Qb stability, check

#2 - Coach/OC/ offense stability, check

#3 - unquestioned #1 target in passing game? check.

The following cannot say that to questions 1 & 2 - Holt,RMoss, TO, ChadJ (palmer).

Djax may very well finish #2 in WR FFL point production.

The real point is to recognize the value, grab both you rb's while the "WR studs" get taken then grab Djax as your WR1 for the best value.

I already know my draft spot in one league and at the 3 spot I'm taking one of the big 3, then best RB available in round 2 then scoop Djax in round 3 with 3.03. I guarantee he's there.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

1.  Steve Smif

drumroll please....

2. Darrell Jackson

crazysee Holt

see Holts stats

Now our friend Lhucks isn't crazy.Djax represents some important factors when doing your rankings:

#1 - Qb stability, check

#2 - Coach/OC/ offense stability, check

#3 - unquestioned #1 target in passing game? check.

The following cannot say that to questions 1 & 2 - Holt,RMoss, TO, ChadJ (palmer).

Djax may very well finish #2 in WR FFL point production.

The real point is to recognize the value, grab both you rb's while the "WR studs" get taken then grab Djax as your WR1 for the best value.

I already know my draft spot in one league and at the 3 spot I'm taking one of the big 3, then best RB available in round 2 then scoop Djax in round 3 with 3.03. I guarantee he's there.

Who is the unquestioned #1 target in the Seattle passing game then?

 

[LHUCKS]

So Lhucks, you're planning to get him late 2nd? Early 3rd?

Will you draft him before a 2nd RB? Before Gates?

I'll draft him when I think I can get him. If the "experts" have him as fourth rounder I'll grab him late 3rd. If they have him as a 3rd rounder I'll draft him early 3rd unless there's better value. Cant say if I'd draft him before a 2nd RB without knowing draft specifics.

That's not a very ringing endorsement. The only way I wouldn't pick the #2 WR on my board before my second RB is if sheer idiocy had allowed one of my top-10 RBs to fall to the second round (and it wasn't a sleeper RB who I could grab later, like Ron Dayne).

I wouldn't draft Jackson until the 3rd round as it stands now. This is looking like a RB-RB year. As a matter fact my initial analysis show that only 2/3 non RBs should be considered in the first two rounds of a 12 teamer. BTW, I'm not a stud RB theorist by any stretch of the imagination...I simply draft the value as I see it year to year.

 

[joffer]

Jackson's been in the league 6 years with basically the same team around him the last several. He's never had 1200 yards in a season and never had double digit TDs. Can't see the reasoning behind why he'll be the #2 receiver this year. Maybe top 10, but #2 doesn't seem likely to me.

'05 ppg...next question

which ranked where again?

:crickets:

 

[LHUCKS]

Jackson's been in the league 6 years with basically the same team around him the last several. He's never had 1200 yards in a season and never had double digit TDs. Can't see the reasoning behind why he'll be the #2 receiver this year. Maybe top 10, but #2 doesn't seem likely to me.

'05 ppg...next question

which ranked where again?

:crickets:

I don't have a list of PPG rankings...out of curiosity where did he land?

 

[radballs.]

Jackson's been in the league 6 years with basically the same team around him the last several. He's never had 1200 yards in a season and never had double digit TDs. Can't see the reasoning behind why he'll be the #2 receiver this year. Maybe top 10, but #2 doesn't seem likely to me.

'05 ppg...next question

which ranked where again?

:crickets:

I don't have a list of PPG rankings...out of curiosity where did he land?

11th in standard leagues

 

[bentley]

Jackson's been in the league 6 years with basically the same team around him the last several. He's never had 1200 yards in a season and never had double digit TDs. Can't see the reasoning behind why he'll be the #2 receiver this year. Maybe top 10, but #2 doesn't seem likely to me.

'05 ppg...next question

which ranked where again?

:crickets:

I don't have a list of PPG rankings...out of curiosity where did he land?

11th in standard leagues

Hey rad, what's up? LHUCKS up to his usual nonsense?

 

[radballs.]

Jackson's been in the league 6 years with basically the same team around him the last several. He's never had 1200 yards in a season and never had double digit TDs. Can't see the reasoning behind why he'll be the #2 receiver this year. Maybe top 10, but #2 doesn't seem likely to me.

'05 ppg...next question

which ranked where again?

:crickets:

I don't have a list of PPG rankings...out of curiosity where did he land?

11th in standard leagues

Hey rad, what's up? LHUCKS up to his usual nonsense?

Hey bentley. Actually, I'm not sure when D Jax got hurt during the game that he went out. But, if you spot him one game and made his PPG based off of 5 games instead of 6, then he jumps all the way to 5th.

 

[LHUCKS]

11th in standard leagues

11th in ppg coupled with low risk = #2 WR this year.

 

[LHUCKS]

Hey bentley. Actually, I'm not sure when D Jax got hurt during the game that he went out. But, if you spot him one game and made his PPG based off of 5 games instead of 6, then he jumps all the way to 5th.

I'm not at home right now, but this may be the reason why I was impressed with his ppg...can't be sure until I get home.

 

[radballs.]

11th in standard leagues

11th in ppg coupled with low risk = #2 WR this year.

How is a guy who only played 6 games last year due to injury low risk for this year?

 

[radballs.]

His 16 game pace would have given him 101 receptions which is a bonus for ppr leagues too.

 

[LHUCKS]

11th in standard leagues

11th in ppg coupled with low risk = #2 WR this year.

How is a guy who only played 6 games last year due to injury low risk for this year?

Well I evaluate injury to injury and the fact that he had been solid beforehand, not to mention he bounced back already in the playoffs gives me very little concern.If people are going to downgrade him because of injury concern, that's all the more value he'll be.

 

[Buckeyedawgs]

one thing you guys are missing with all this DJ hype is unlike Smith, Owens, and even Chad, you have a RB hoging the TD's IN HAWK COUNTRY.

DJ is a very good receiver with top 5 talent. But as Engram showed last year Alexander will get so many end zone carries it takes away from DJ fantasy strength. Top 5 in consistancy, but lucky for top ten in fantasy scoreing is my prediction if healthy.

 

[joffer]

11th in standard leagues

11th in ppg coupled with low risk = #2 WR this year.

sorry, just not seeing it. I don't see how his '05 ppg helps your argument at all.

 

[Blackjacks]

How's his knee?

He really did look good last season when he was healthy.

looked fine in the playoffs...and now he's got 9 months to strengthen it.Not a concern.

Are you concerned at all with his 13 yards per reception in the regular season? That seems pretty low to me. I don't have the stats for the playoffs. Did his YPC go up in the playoffs?

Well this is the way I see it. I looked over alot of the wr's ypc last year and I actually see the # that D-JAx had was around the more reliable wr's. He's in the same category 12.5 to 14ypc as Holt, Chambers, Wayne, Harrison and Boldin. Big name players with higher ypc seem like guys that if they don't get the long bomb they won't get you anything. This list contains of players with 15.5 and up S and R Moss, Galloway, Glenn and Burress. These guys seem alot less consistent than the list above. Now there are guys that I left off that are in the high ypc including S. Smith and T.O. but basically what I showing is the more catches usually limits this ypc. I think most people would agree that if you look at the #'s like I did the majority of the top ten wr's have an avg. ypg, under 15.

 

[LHUCKS]

11th in standard leagues

11th in ppg coupled with low risk = #2 WR this year.

sorry, just not seeing it. I don't see how his '05 ppg helps your argument at all.

#5 in PPG with little risk...sounds like a #2 to me.

 

[joffer]

11th in standard leagues

11th in ppg coupled with low risk = #2 WR this year.

sorry, just not seeing it. I don't see how his '05 ppg helps your argument at all.

#5 in PPG with little risk...sounds like a #2 to me.

when did he go from #11 to #5?

 

[bagger.]

That's not a very ringing endorsement. The only way I wouldn't pick the #2 WR on my board before my second RB is if sheer idiocy had allowed one of my top-10 RBs to fall to the second round (and it wasn't a sleeper RB who I could grab later, like Ron Dayne).

You need a lesson on value. If the #2 WR on your board is going in the 4th round, you'd take him in the 2nd?That is horrible draft management.

 

[bagger.]

ya had me until you said Ron Dayne

Laugh all you want. I'm sure it would have sounded equally silly had I used Mike Anderson's name instead at this point last season

true, Anderson would have elicited a chuckle, but Dayne deserves a bust-o-gut, #### myself, full-fledged:

I cannot believe that people are still touting Dayne. I would have thought this would have ended in 2003.

I think these are just the dying convulsions in the Ron Dayne hype machine. Sort of how a chicken runs around with its head chopped off.

 

[AB in DC]

Hey bentley. Actually, I'm not sure when D Jax got hurt during the game that he went out. But, if you spot him one game and made his PPG based off of 5 games instead of 6, then he jumps all the way to 5th.

I'm not at home right now, but this may be the reason why I was impressed with his ppg...can't be sure until I get home.

If you take out the Indy game (3/34...how much did he actually play?) you're looking at 12.7 ppg, or #6 among WRs.

 

[simmonjm]

Lhucks with Keyshawn to Carolina and D-Jax undergoing surgery do you plan on changing your rankings?

 

[LHUCKS]

Lhucks with Keyshawn to Carolina and D-Jax undergoing surgery do you plan on changing your rankings?

Yes...all news impacts projections.I'm not as concerned with D-JAX's follow up surgery as others appear to be, but nonetheless, I think it does increase his risk...I'm waiting to hear more about it.

SS is still my top ranked WR. Adding Keyshawn doesn't effect his value IMHO.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Lhucks with Keyshawn to Carolina and D-Jax undergoing surgery do you plan on changing your rankings?

Yes...all news impacts projections.I'm not as concerned with D-JAX's follow up surgery as others appear to be, but nonetheless, I think it does increase his risk...I'm waiting to hear more about it.

SS is still my top ranked WR. Adding Keyshawn doesn't effect his value IMHO.

What about Burleson going to Seattle?

 

[LHUCKS]

Lhucks with Keyshawn to Carolina and D-Jax undergoing surgery do you plan on changing your rankings?

Yes...all news impacts projections.I'm not as concerned with D-JAX's follow up surgery as others appear to be, but nonetheless, I think it does increase his risk...I'm waiting to hear more about it.

SS is still my top ranked WR. Adding Keyshawn doesn't effect his value IMHO.

What about Burleson going to Seattle?

I'm not sure what to make of this yet...they payed him good money so he's obviously a threat to Engram's numbers. Doubtful a 100% D-Jax sees less targets, but it's possible. I'm waiting to hear more.

 

[pigskinliquors]

I'll spot you three spots for a signature bet = I don't think D-Jax will be top 5. Since you think he'll be top 2 this should be a tasty bet for you. Top 5 in standard scoring you win; out of top 5 I win...

 

[LHUCKS]

I'll spot you three spots for a signature bet = I don't think D-Jax will be top 5. Since you think he'll be top 2 this should be a tasty bet for you. Top 5 in standard scoring you win; out of top 5 I win...

Actually, in ff at WR no bet that any WR will finish top 5 is often not wise. I'd take that bet with Steve Smith this year and that's about it.

 

[SSOG]

That's not a very ringing endorsement. The only way I wouldn't pick the #2 WR on my board before my second RB is if sheer idiocy had allowed one of my top-10 RBs to fall to the second round (and it wasn't a sleeper RB who I could grab later, like Ron Dayne).

You need a lesson on value. If the #2 WR on your board is going in the 4th round, you'd take him in the 2nd?That is horrible draft management.

I don't need any lessons on value, thank you. If a guy's not being taken in the first 2-3 rounds, odds are he isn't one of my top-2 WRs. The vast majority of people usually agree on who the top-5 RBs and WRs are every season, so it's more likely that I can wait on my #2 RB (who is not top-5) than it is that I can wait on my #1 WR (who is top-5).

SS is still my top ranked WR. Adding Keyshawn doesn't effect his value IMHO.

I strongly disagree here.Here are the average numbers from Steve Smith and Muhsin Muhammad over the past 2 seasons (when there was no credible #2 WR):

172 targets, 98 receptions, 1484 yards, 14 TDs. Both seasons, the WR finished #1 overall.

Here are the numbers put up by the #2 WR over that same two-year span.

70 targets, 36 receptions, 598 yards, 4.5 TDs.

I really don't expect Keyshawn Johnson to finish with only 36 receptions next season. I also really don't expect Carolina's #1 WR to put up such ridiculous stats now that there's another target to throw to. I expect to see something more similar to the 2003 Steve Smith/Muhsin Muhammed numbers now.

 

[BassNBrew]

I'll spot you three spots for a signature bet = I don't think D-Jax will be top 5.  Since you think he'll be top 2 this should be a tasty bet for you.  Top 5 in standard scoring you win; out of top 5 I win... 

Actually, in ff at WR no bet that any WR will finish top 5 is often not wise. I'd take that bet with Steve Smith this year and that's about it.

In for a 2007 subscription???

 

[BassNBrew]

That's not a very ringing endorsement. The only way I wouldn't pick the #2 WR on my board before my second RB is if sheer idiocy had allowed one of my top-10 RBs to fall to the second round (and it wasn't a sleeper RB who I could grab later, like Ron Dayne).

You need a lesson on value. If the #2 WR on your board is going in the 4th round, you'd take him in the 2nd?That is horrible draft management.

I don't need any lessons on value, thank you. If a guy's not being taken in the first 2-3 rounds, odds are he isn't one of my top-2 WRs. The vast majority of people usually agree on who the top-5 RBs and WRs are every season, so it's more likely that I can wait on my #2 RB (who is not top-5) than it is that I can wait on my #1 WR (who is top-5).

SS is still my top ranked WR.  Adding Keyshawn doesn't effect his value IMHO.

I strongly disagree here.Here are the average numbers from Steve Smith and Muhsin Muhammad over the past 2 seasons (when there was no credible #2 WR):

172 targets, 98 receptions, 1484 yards, 14 TDs. Both seasons, the WR finished #1 overall.

Here are the numbers put up by the #2 WR over that same two-year span.

70 targets, 36 receptions, 598 yards, 4.5 TDs.

I really don't expect Keyshawn Johnson to finish with only 36 receptions next season. I also really don't expect Carolina's #1 WR to put up such ridiculous stats now that there's another target to throw to. I expect to see something more similar to the 2003 Steve Smith/Muhsin Muhammed numbers now.

SSOG...you can't go back and use the Smith/Muhammy split. I view this more as a TO/Rice situation. Smith had to grow into the position of being a stud. I believe he started out as just a returner. Also, in 2003, Delhomme was just taking the reigns. If you toss out Smith's first four games in, roughly 13-130-1, and replace them with his four playoff games, you have an elte WR.

 

[Big Score]

Actually, I'm not sure when D Jax got hurt during the game that he went out. But, if you spot him one game and made his PPG based off of 5 games instead of 6, then he jumps all the way to 5th.

D-Jax played 6 full games.D-Jax sufferd his injury 10/02 against Washington. He played until there was 1:23 left and was in on the last Seattle TD, which was a pass to him tying the game & sending it to OT.

Washington won the coin toss and ended up kicking game winning FG.

 

[pigskinliquors]

I'll spot you three spots for a signature bet = I don't think D-Jax will be top 5. Since you think he'll be top 2 this should be a tasty bet for you. Top 5 in standard scoring you win; out of top 5 I win...

Actually, in ff at WR no bet that any WR will finish top 5 is often not wise. I'd take that bet with Steve Smith this year and that's about it.

Then why are you so adamant about him being #2?

 

[LHUCKS]

I'll spot you three spots for a signature bet = I don't think D-Jax will be top 5.  Since you think he'll be top 2 this should be a tasty bet for you.  Top 5 in standard scoring you win; out of top 5 I win... 

Actually, in ff at WR no bet that any WR will finish top 5 is often not wise. I'd take that bet with Steve Smith this year and that's about it.

Then why are you so adamant about him being #2?

There's a huge difference between a ranking, and an over/under on where a particular player will finish.

 

[Bri]

LHucks,

time for a new thread man. #5 TE? Sleeper QB?

 

[Fullback Fro]

TO will blow up next year.

My top 5

TO

S.Smiff

Holt

Fitz

DJAX

RECOGNIZE FOOLS

 

[pigskinliquors]

I'll spot you three spots for a signature bet = I don't think D-Jax will be top 5. Since you think he'll be top 2 this should be a tasty bet for you. Top 5 in standard scoring you win; out of top 5 I win...

Actually, in ff at WR no bet that any WR will finish top 5 is often not wise. I'd take that bet with Steve Smith this year and that's about it.

Then why are you so adamant about him being #2?

There's a huge difference between a ranking, and an over/under on where a particular player will finish.

When they are your rankings, their absolutely is

 

[LHUCKS]

I'll spot you three spots for a signature bet = I don't think D-Jax will be top 5.  Since you think he'll be top 2 this should be a tasty bet for you.  Top 5 in standard scoring you win; out of top 5 I win... 

Actually, in ff at WR no bet that any WR will finish top 5 is often not wise. I'd take that bet with Steve Smith this year and that's about it.

Then why are you so adamant about him being #2?

There's a huge difference between a ranking, and an over/under on where a particular player will finish.

When they are your rankings, their absolutely is

Do I need to list my finishes in FBG leagues last year?

 

[Bri]

thanks

 

[BassNBrew]

I'll spot you three spots for a signature bet = I don't think D-Jax will be top 5.  Since you think he'll be top 2 this should be a tasty bet for you.  Top 5 in standard scoring you win; out of top 5 I win... 

Actually, in ff at WR no bet that any WR will finish top 5 is often not wise. I'd take that bet with Steve Smith this year and that's about it.

In for a 2007 subscription???