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League in Year 22 needs some thoughts on how to handle an odd situation (1 Viewer)

MTskibum

Footballguy
Lets pretend that Team A didn't leave the league.  How would that situation be any different?  He still would have won the league last year, and Team B would still have the extra draft picks.


This is my thought, why not do this every other year. Just tank every other year and then go all in every other year.

I do not think future picks should be traded in a redraft league.

 

MTskibum

Footballguy
Lets pretend that Team A didn't leave the league.  How would that situation be any different?  He still would have won the league last year, and Team B would still have the extra draft picks.


This is my thought, why not do this every other year. Just tank every other year and then go all in every other year.

I do not think future picks should be traded in a redraft league.

 

Mjolnirs

Footballguy
Did all of this trading happen at one time, or over a few weeks?
Either way, as commish, there comes a point where you step in and put a stop to it.

 

Jaybee1200

Footballguy
Did all of this trading happen at one time, or over a few weeks?
Either way, as commish, there comes a point where you step in and put a stop to it.
pretty much at the same time, maybe a week or two. But, we had tons of people trade away lots of draft picks in the past, but they wouldnt trade such high level picks because they knew it would screw them the next year. There was a reason not to trade away super high picks. But when you know you arent coming back...

 

Runkle

Footballguy
 There was a reason not to trade away super high picks


Of course there is. Winning the current season by destroying the next is an obvious strategy in all leagues that allow trading future picks. So is tanking the current season to dominate the next draft. What's the problem here? If you allow trading future picks, this should be the norm, not rare. 

 

dhockster

Footballguy
he would not have done the trade because he would have so few players able to be drafted. He would literally end the draft with no picks in the first 3 rounds and 5 less draft picks than anyone else
Why would he not have done it? He won a championship due to the trade. Sure he would have sucked in year 2 having to pick up Free Agents after the draft to fill out his roster,  but sacrificing one season to go all in on another season is a legitimate strategy when trading future picks is allowed.

 

Mjolnirs

Footballguy
Did all of this trading happen at one time, or over a few weeks?
Either way, as commish, there comes a point where you step in and put a stop to it.
pretty much at the same time, maybe a week or two. But, we had tons of people trade away lots of draft picks in the past, but they wouldnt trade such high level picks because they knew it would screw them the next year. There was a reason not to trade away super high picks. But when you know you arent coming back...
Did everyone know he wasn't coming back?  If so, that would put a stop to any future pick trading by that owner right then.
My league that I have been in since 1990, and I have been commissioner since 1999, has a rule stating "any area not covered within this document is left to the discretion of the commissioner, pending owner approval."  Over the years this rule has allowed me to police trade collusion and actually reverse trades.

 

Jaybee1200

Footballguy
Of course there is. Winning the current season by destroying the next is an obvious strategy in all leagues that allow trading future picks. So is tanking the current season to dominate the next draft. What's the problem here? If you allow trading future picks, this should be the norm, not rare. 
We just have very very competitive owners that are also very tight with their money. No one (until this year) ever wanted to ruin one year or two, or three, just for the chance of MAYBE winning this year. With two keepers and a draft to fill your roster, no one goes into a season as the obvious winner. There are just too many unknowns. That is why this league has lasted for so long, every year, everyone has a chance, and everyone fights for that chance, but not to where they screw themselves for the next three years or whatever.

For example, we have a bonus pool called the 200 Point Club. Each week everyone automatically throws $5 into a pot. If someone scores 200 points that week, they get the pot. If no one does, that pot carries over to the next week and so on. This past season we had our first new member of the 200 Point Club in 6 years. They won over $4,000. For things like this, no one "ruins" their team for the next year as they want a chance to win this as well (the winner of the $4k last year came in 11, he just hit one badass week).

So, we never had someone intentionally ruin their future team KNOWING that they weren't going to play the following year in the first place, until now.

 

Jaybee1200

Footballguy
Did everyone know he wasn't coming back?  If so, that would put a stop to any future pick trading by that owner right then.
My league that I have been in since 1990, and I have been commissioner since 1999, has a rule stating "any area not covered within this document is left to the discretion of the commissioner, pending owner approval."  Over the years this rule has allowed me to police trade collusion and actually reverse trades.
no, no one knew until after the season was over and after he received his check...

 

Runkle

Footballguy
We just have very very competitive owners that are also very tight with their money. No one (until this year) ever wanted to ruin one year or two, or three, just for the chance of MAYBE winning this year. With two keepers and a draft to fill your roster, no one goes into a season as the obvious winner. There are just too many unknowns. That is why this league has lasted for so long, every year, everyone has a chance, and everyone fights for that chance, but not to where they screw themselves for the next three years or whatever.

For example, we have a bonus pool called the 200 Point Club. Each week everyone automatically throws $5 into a pot. If someone scores 200 points that week, they get the pot. If no one does, that pot carries over to the next week and so on. This past season we had our first new member of the 200 Point Club in 6 years. They won over $4,000. For things like this, no one "ruins" their team for the next year as they want a chance to win this as well (the winner of the $4k last year came in 11, he just hit one badass week).

So, we never had someone intentionally ruin their future team KNOWING that they weren't going to play the following year in the first place, until now.


This is simple, dude. How much does it cost to lose vs how much you get when you win. If the winner's payday covers 2, 3, 4 seasons worth of entry fees, then F it. Win one and free roll the rest until you can rebuild again.

This is the whole point of leagues where you can trade future picks. It's always the decision between "Win Now or Win Later". Only a league full of complete idiots would try to always win it all every year and put their best into every single season.

I can't believe it took 22 years to figure that out. 

 

Jaybee1200

Footballguy
This is simple, dude. How much does it cost to lose vs how much you get when you win. If the winner's payday covers 2, 3, 4 seasons worth of entry fees, then F it. Win one and free roll the rest until you can rebuild again.

This is the whole point of leagues where you can trade future picks. It's always the decision between "Win Now or Win Later". Only a league full of complete idiots would try to always win it all every year and put their best into every single season.

I can't believe it took 22 years to figure that out. 
"Only a league full of complete idiots would try to always win it all every year." - I don't even need to reply. You took care of that yourself Rooster.

 

Mrs. Rannous

Footballguy
Willie Neslon said:
The failure here is on the commissioner who's job is to protect the integrity of the league. This should have been handled as soon as the trade was executed.
This right here.  Mr R founded his league 33 years ago.  The league constitution includes "The Commishioner has the right to counter or rescind any deal deemed detrimental to the League.  The League has the right to overrule the Commishioner by a simple majority vote that the Commishioner does not vote in."  Stuff that is detrimental to the league just shouldn't be allowed.  

 

Pip's Invitation

Footballguy
IKR

@Jaybee1200 this probably belongs in the Assistant Coach forum but tbh you wouldn’t get more than 1-2 responses. The less optimal solution would be to put it in The Shark Pool - you’d get more traffic and serious responses there.

Usually FF related topics get 99% snark responses here in the Free For All. Music, streaming entertainment, gaming, fitness, personal finance & of late, grieving, are generally hot topics here. 

IDK what kind of Jedi mind trick you pulled today but serious kudos for eliciting thoughtful fantasy discussion in the FFA. This thread response is basically a unicorn, so congrats for that!
We’re being nicer because Wikkid would have wanted us to. 

 

Tom Servo

Nittany Beavers
This is the whole point of leagues where you can trade future picks. It's always the decision between "Win Now or Win Later". Only a league full of complete idiots would try to always win it all every year and put their best into every single season.
Say what?

 

Jaybee1200

Footballguy
By the way, if any of you are around ATL, free beer on me for all your help. Also, we have an opening in the league now...

 

⚡DEADHEAD⚡

Footballguy
Kinda reminds me when the 49ers rented Deion for a year, got a Super Bowl ring, and then parted ways. The 9ers did a little after that, but not much for nearly 20 years. 

 

Jaybee1200

Footballguy
There's no way all 12 teams should be in "win now" mode all season long. At some point owners should look to next year.
see the post about the 200 Point Club. Guy that finished 11th walked away with $4,000 because he never gave up. The Master's League is the greatest league of all time son! (except for this one son of a ##### that snuck out)

 

Ilov80s

Footballguy
fruity pebbles said:
Trade future picks, pay for that future year.
This. Both sides should have to commit to the following year fully for the trade to process. 

he would not have done the trade because he would have so few players able to be drafted. He would literally end the draft with no picks in the first 3 rounds and 5 less draft picks than anyone else
I would also make a rule then that if you trade away a future pick, the other team has to also give one in return so that everyone can draft a full team the next year.  I would even set a formula for that return pick to be  the round of the traded pick +4.

For example:

Player A needs 1 more piece to put him over the edge to make a title run in 2021. Player B feels like his season is a lost cause and is willing to part with Justin Jefferson in exchange for a 1st round pick in 2022. So the deal would be:

Team A gives up their 2022 1st round pick. Team B gives up Justin Jefferson and a 2022 5th round pick (1st round + 4). 

Another example:

Team A gives up a 2022 2nd round pick. Team B gives up Michael Pittman and a 2022 5th round pick (2nd round + 4)

 

Mrs. Rannous

Footballguy
no, no one knew until after the season was over and after he received his check...
Wow.  That's a #### move.  I take it there was no indication that the trade was unusual in any way?  Can you provide a description of it?

(Our league has three protects per team, with two being tradeable.  We also do in-person drafts.  We do give the previous tean to new owners.  There are no weirdo extra picks.  We also don't play for money for these kinds of reasons.  It's a lot of fun.)

 
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Mrs. Rannous

Footballguy
There's no way all 12 teams should be in "win now" mode all season long. At some point owners should look to next year.
They aren't.  They are in win mode during the draft.  By about week 6-8, it generally becomes clear who will contend this year.  Our trade deadline is Dec 1st.

 

Mrs. Rannous

Footballguy
I would also make a rule then that if you trade away a future pick, the other team has to also give one in return so that everyone can draft a full team the next year.  I would even set a formula for that return pick to be  the round of the traded pick +4.
Not necessary.  Everyone in our league who does not have a complete roster drafts those picks at the end.  Sometimes people will finish their draft in round 7 or 8 in a 13 round draft.

 

Ilov80s

Footballguy
Not necessary.  Everyone in our league who does not have a complete roster drafts those picks at the end.  Sometimes people will finish their draft in round 7 or 8 in a 13 round draft.
For sure, I just think it helps retain some competitive balance if the team getting an extra 1st does have to sacrifice something like a 4th or 5th round pick in the deal. Helps retain a little balance. 

 

Mrs. Rannous

Footballguy
For sure, I just think it helps retain some competitive balance if the team getting an extra 1st does have to sacrifice something like a 4th or 5th round pick in the deal. Helps retain a little balance. 
We've never had a problem with that.

 

jvdesigns2002

Footballguy
I havent read the thread—but it seems simple. You need to be prepaid for next season before you are allowed to trade next seasons picks.  If the team trading away or receiving next seasons picks are not prepaid for next year—the trade is nullified. 

 

Tom Servo

Nittany Beavers
There's no way all 12 teams should be in "win now" mode all season long. At some point owners should look to next year.
But that's not what you said:

Only a league full of complete idiots would try to always win it all every year and put their best into every single season.

 

Dez89

Footballguy
Ok, it wasn't clear from the outset that this is a redraft league.  That changes things a little, but not much.

Also, you made it sound like Team B won a championship already, but it's THIS year that they get the extra picks.  So nothing has been ruined.

An extra 1st, 2nd, 3rd is certainly going to be an advantage in redraft, but I find it highly unlikely that they run away with it.  I'd even bet that they don't win it all.

 

Jaybee1200

Footballguy
I havent read the thread—but it seems simple. You need to be prepaid for next season before you are allowed to trade next seasons picks.  If the team trading away or receiving next seasons picks are not prepaid for next year—the trade is nullified. 
The best response yet... this is close to what I had came up with. Our entry fee is around $500 (it goes up slowly overtime but nothing dramatic). We have some cheap bastards in our league so I was going to say if you want to do a trade involving picks from future years then you have to pay $300, but that $300 would count towards your entry fee for that next year. So if I trade away my 4th round pick for next year, I have to pay $300 before the trade goes through, BUT, that means I only have to pay $200 the next year. 

 
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The best response yet... this is close to what I had came up with. Our entry fee is around $500 (it goes up slowly overtime but nothing dramatic). We have some cheap bastards in our league so I was going to say if you want to do a trade involving picks from future years then you have to pay $300, but that $300 would count towards your entry fee for that next year. So if I trade away my 4th round pick for next year, I have to pay $300 before the trade goes through, BUT, that means I only have to pay $200 the next year. 
This may or may not solve the issue though depending on how much the league winner gets.  For example's sake if they get like 5k for winning the league then $500 isn't going to be a major deterrent.  I would probably limit the amount of draft picks you can trade for the next year.  Don't let a situation where a team can trade multiple high level picks.

 

Zow

Footballguy
Chemical X said:
you can’t trade draft picks in future years while the season is ongoing.  seems like a rookie move.
My dynasty league has done this for years without issue. We do, though, have a trade committee to review trades and would have vetoed this sort of thing if we knew the owner was leaving. 

 

Zow

Footballguy
MTskibum said:
This is my thought, why not do this every other year. Just tank every other year and then go all in every other year.

I do not think future picks should be traded in a redraft league.
Oh wait, this is a redraft?? Yeah, that's silly. 

 

Jaybee1200

Footballguy
My dynasty league has done this for years without issue. We do, though, have a trade committee to review trades and would have vetoed this sort of thing if we knew the owner was leaving. 
no one knew he was leaving, and the trades themselves were not inherently bad  

 

Pip's Invitation

Footballguy
Jaybee1200 said:
The best response yet... this is close to what I had came up with. Our entry fee is around $500 (it goes up slowly overtime but nothing dramatic). We have some cheap bastards in our league so I was going to say if you want to do a trade involving picks from future years then you have to pay $300, but that $300 would count towards your entry fee for that next year. So if I trade away my 4th round pick for next year, I have to pay $300 before the trade goes through, BUT, that means I only have to pay $200 the next year. 
I was in a now-defunct league that had something like that. We had 3 keepers per team. If you traded away a draft pick for next year, you had to pay an advance on next year’s fee depending on what round it was in order for the trade to go through. It was the entire fee if the pick was in the first 5 rounds, and went down from there. 

 

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