Lebron James will never win a championship... (2 Viewers)

[No. 16]

just seems like LeBrons biggest issue is that his jumper isnt that reliable. Jordan, Kobe,Bird Even Dirk. I just knew those guys shots were going in at the end of the game. LeBron is a great athlete that plays baksetball and he needs to work on his jumper, badly.

LeBron shot 44.7% from 10-15 feet. 45% from 16-23 feet and 33% from 3. There is nothing wrong with his jumper.

Yes there is. His mid-range game is very weak. Heard Jalen Rose say exactly that on the radio yesterday. And I'm not just taking his word for it. I've thought the same thing.

Statistics say otherwise. He shot ~45% from 10-23 feet in the regular season. League average is 39.5%.Granted this is the first year his mid-range went up that high after toiling around 40% previously in his career so we'll have to see if that improvement is legit. However, based on his 2010-2011 REGULAR SEASON play his mid-range jumper is above league average.

% is cute an all, but how is his shot volume from that range? He seemed every reluctant to shoot from that range vs Dallas.

Hoopdata.com is your friend. But here it is, since I enjoy this stuff:10-23 feet combinedLBJ: 3.1/7 out 18.8 FGALG AVG: 1.1/2.6 = when combined them it increase from ~39 from 10-15 and 16-23 to 42%Swingmen (SF/SG) who play 30+mpg: 1.9/4.7 (quick and dirty way to compare to other prime time perimeter players)- Durant: 3.8/8.9 out of 19.7 FGA- Wade: 2.1/5.4 out of 18.2 FGA- Kobe: 3.8/9.1 out of 20 FGA- Kevin Martin: 2/5.4 out of 15.8 FGA- Monta Ellis: 3/8 out of 20.1 FGA

 

[Ghost Rider]

You would have never seen a Kobe team get beaten so badly that they give up the final 2 minutes of a game. Pathetic.

No. 16 had to have been kidding. Or else he missed Game 6 of the 2008 Finals. Or the Game 6 loss to the Spurs in 2003. I wonder if he saw Game 4 against the Mavericks last month.

 

[got_nugs]

You would have never seen a Kobe team get beaten so badly that they give up the final 2 minutes of a game. Pathetic.

No. 16 had to have been kidding. Or else he missed Game 6 of the 2008 Finals. Or the Game 6 loss to the Spurs in 2003. I wonder if he saw Game 4 against the Mavericks last month.

Best.Post.Ever.Today.

 

[Statorama]

ITS THE ONLY ARGUMENT I NEED SHAWN

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Just selecting a range of distance doesn't show what kind of shot it was. Note I said, "pull up" and "mid-range game". Sure he can catch and shoot at that distance, but that is different than being able to take one or two dribbles with a man on you and then stop, jump and shoot a quality shot over the defender. That is what I'm talking about and if he had that, he would be unstoppable ala MJ & Kobe. Because when push comes to shove and you need a basket, being able to hit a jump shot the second your defender is a little off balance and can't jump with you is the easiest, most consistent play in basketball. If do right, no can defense. Come to think of it, I did it this morning for game point in a pickup game against a younger, taller, more athletic player. I got the ball on the wing, drove two dribbles hard to my right and once the defender had to commit to cutting me off, I pulled up and hit an open jump shot. Lebron just doesn't do it enough, but I'm guessing I've practiced mine more than he has (mostly because I'm older and it was the only way I could score in college).

So you probably wouldn't believe it when I told you less than about 20% (10% from 10-15 and 22% from 15-23) of his shots from that range are assisted which means the vast majority are not catch and shoot but that he is in fact creating his own shot.I guess you should give LeBron a call and teach him this shot. I'm sure he love to hear the advice of a guy who hit a pull up jumper in a pickup game. I'm sure you've spent much more time working on your game than he has on his.So, you want to change it from pull up jumpers to something else? Maybe 1 legged Dirk jumpers he isn't good at hitting? Mid-range jumpers when his right shoe is tied tighter than his left? If you throw those kind of variables in then we definitely won't be able to use clearly defined statistics.

 

[No. 16]

You would have never seen a Kobe team get beaten so badly that they give up the final 2 minutes of a game. Pathetic.

No. 16 had to have been kidding. Or else he missed Game 6 of the 2008 Finals. Or the Game 6 loss to the Spurs in 2003. I wonder if he saw Game 4 against the Mavericks last month.

Best.Post.Ever.Today.

Went over this before. Kobe teams will lose. It happens, but it is the manner in which they lost that is important. Aside from the Phoenix playoff game, has anyone EVER accused Kobe or the other greats of mailing it in like LBJ does?The main Kobe hater arguments is that Kobe TRIES TO DO TOO MUCH BY HIMSELF when the game is on the line. The polar opposite of LBJ. So Kobe led teams have lost and lost big, but it's not because Kobe stopped trying to impose his will on the game.

 

[boubucarow]

I will give some rope to jayron because only 1.6 of his 7 mid range shots came from inside 15 feet. Mainly it is because James is a pull up jump shooter without the Kobe or Jordan 2nd career mid range post games. I see his point.

 

[boubucarow]

You would have never seen a Kobe team get beaten so badly that they give up the final 2 minutes of a game. Pathetic.

No. 16 had to have been kidding. Or else he missed Game 6 of the 2008 Finals. Or the Game 6 loss to the Spurs in 2003. I wonder if he saw Game 4 against the Mavericks last month.

Best.Post.Ever.Today.

Went over this before. Kobe teams will lose. It happens, but it is the manner in which they lost that is important. Aside from the Phoenix playoff game, has anyone EVER accused Kobe or the other greats of mailing it in like LBJ does?The main Kobe hater arguments is that Kobe TRIES TO DO TOO MUCH BY HIMSELF when the game is on the line. The polar opposite of LBJ. So Kobe led teams have lost and lost big, but it's not because Kobe stopped trying to impose his will on the game.

You are forgetting the Suns game 7 when Kobe took 3 shots and scored 1 point.

 

[No. 16]

I will give some rope to jayron because only 1.6 of his 7 mid range shots came from inside 15 feet. Mainly it is because James is a pull up jump shooter without the Kobe or Jordan 2nd career mid range post games. I see his point.

I think that has more to do with shot selection/aggressiveness rather than ability to make the shorter mid range jumpers.

 

[Ghost Rider]

You would have never seen a Kobe team get beaten so badly that they give up the final 2 minutes of a game. Pathetic.

No. 16 had to have been kidding. Or else he missed Game 6 of the 2008 Finals. Or the Game 6 loss to the Spurs in 2003. I wonder if he saw Game 4 against the Mavericks last month.

Best.Post.Ever.Today.

Went over this before. Kobe teams will lose. It happens, but it is the manner in which they lost that is important. Aside from the Phoenix playoff game, has anyone EVER accused Kobe or the other greats of mailing it in like LBJ does?

Yes. Game 7 against Phoenix.

 

[No. 16]

You would have never seen a Kobe team get beaten so badly that they give up the final 2 minutes of a game. Pathetic.

No. 16 had to have been kidding. Or else he missed Game 6 of the 2008 Finals. Or the Game 6 loss to the Spurs in 2003. I wonder if he saw Game 4 against the Mavericks last month.

Best.Post.Ever.Today.

Went over this before. Kobe teams will lose. It happens, but it is the manner in which they lost that is important. Aside from the Phoenix playoff game, has anyone EVER accused Kobe or the other greats of mailing it in like LBJ does?The main Kobe hater arguments is that Kobe TRIES TO DO TOO MUCH BY HIMSELF when the game is on the line. The polar opposite of LBJ.

So Kobe led teams have lost and lost big, but it's not because Kobe stopped trying to impose his will on the game.

You are forgetting the Suns game 7 when Kobe took 3 shots and scored 1 point.

BOLD.

 

[got_nugs]

You would have never seen a Kobe team get beaten so badly that they give up the final 2 minutes of a game. Pathetic.

No. 16 had to have been kidding. Or else he missed Game 6 of the 2008 Finals. Or the Game 6 loss to the Spurs in 2003. I wonder if he saw Game 4 against the Mavericks last month.

Best.Post.Ever.Today.

Went over this before. Kobe teams will lose. It happens, but it is the manner in which they lost that is important. Aside from the Phoenix playoff game, has anyone EVER accused Kobe or the other greats of mailing it in like LBJ does?The main Kobe hater arguments is that Kobe TRIES TO DO TOO MUCH BY HIMSELF when the game is on the line. The polar opposite of LBJ. So Kobe led teams have lost and lost big, but it's not because Kobe stopped trying to impose his will on the game.

Didn't James score the last 10 points of a game in the playoffs this year? Wasn't it a given that when it came to the 4th quarter this season in the playoffs that it was LeBrons time to shine? I get your point and can't disagree that he's had a few games where nobody can give me a rational explanation on why he closed shop, I don't think it accurately defines his output as a whole. As a Heat fan I couldn't wait to watch him explode down the stretch like he did repeatedly this year....until he didn't. I don't think that defines a polar opposite....but I could be an idiot. Been called that and worse before. Just what my eyes saw.

 

[Jayrod]

Just selecting a range of distance doesn't show what kind of shot it was. Note I said, "pull up" and "mid-range game". Sure he can catch and shoot at that distance, but that is different than being able to take one or two dribbles with a man on you and then stop, jump and shoot a quality shot over the defender. That is what I'm talking about and if he had that, he would be unstoppable ala MJ & Kobe. Because when push comes to shove and you need a basket, being able to hit a jump shot the second your defender is a little off balance and can't jump with you is the easiest, most consistent play in basketball. If do right, no can defense. Come to think of it, I did it this morning for game point in a pickup game against a younger, taller, more athletic player. I got the ball on the wing, drove two dribbles hard to my right and once the defender had to commit to cutting me off, I pulled up and hit an open jump shot. Lebron just doesn't do it enough, but I'm guessing I've practiced mine more than he has (mostly because I'm older and it was the only way I could score in college).

So you probably wouldn't believe it when I told you less than about 20% (10% from 10-15 and 22% from 15-23) of his shots from that range are assisted which means the vast majority are not catch and shoot but that he is in fact creating his own shot.I guess you should give LeBron a call and teach him this shot. I'm sure he love to hear the advice of a guy who hit a pull up jumper in a pickup game. I'm sure you've spent much more time working on your game than he has on his.So, you want to change it from pull up jumpers to something else? Maybe 1 legged Dirk jumpers he isn't good at hitting? Mid-range jumpers when his right shoe is tied tighter than his left? If you throw those kind of variables in then we definitely won't be able to use clearly defined statistics.

See post #1105.And since I'm 33, and played from the time I could walk and played in college, there is a very good chance I worked on my game as much or more than LeBron. I've pretty obviously spent more time on two dribble pull up jumpers since he was afraid to even attempt one with the NBA finals on the line. But then again, I'm only 6'2", slow, and could barely dunk in my prime. But I'll be damned if I was playing in the NBA finals and could do what he can do, that I wouldn't have tried to take my man to the baseline or elbow and elevate over him time and time again. That fact that he didn't even attempt it shows how glaring a weakness it is and the fact that a player who did play in the NBA and makes a career out of watching and evaluating NBA players says the same thing, you may want to rethink your stance on just how good his mid-range game really is.

 

[No. 16]

Jack HaleyThe 6’10” center made bigger contributions to the 1996 Bulls team off the court than on it, as he was basically on the team to control Dennis Rodman, the wild forward who went down as one of the best rebounders in the NBA. Haley and Rodman became friends when they played for San Antonio, and Haley was the only player in Chicago that Rodman would trust. Haley’s 3.2 points per game and 2.7 rebounding average over his career has to be some kind of record. if jack haley can win a ring, anyone can

William BedfordBedford was the Suns’ No.1 pick in 1986, and he was supposed to be the next big thing. He wastraded to Detroit, and he managed to stay out of drug trouble long enough to rope himself achampionship ring with the 1990 Pistons squad. Bedford retired after six seasons with averagesof 4.1 points and 2.4 boards, and is currently in a Texas jail serving a 10-year sentence for drugtrafficking.

You could name all the scrubs you want. Hell DJ Mbenga, Brian Cardinal, Brian Scalabrine, Will Purdue, and a bunch of other stiffs have won championships but even LBJ won't be able to win one as a bench scrub. Dude will be shooting movies or playing in Turkey before he ever considers himself a bench player. He's that full of himself.

 

[boubucarow]

You would have never seen a Kobe team get beaten so badly that they give up the final 2 minutes of a game. Pathetic.

No. 16 had to have been kidding. Or else he missed Game 6 of the 2008 Finals. Or the Game 6 loss to the Spurs in 2003. I wonder if he saw Game 4 against the Mavericks last month.

Best.Post.Ever.Today.

Went over this before. Kobe teams will lose. It happens, but it is the manner in which they lost that is important. Aside from the Phoenix playoff game, has anyone EVER accused Kobe or the other greats of mailing it in like LBJ does?The main Kobe hater arguments is that Kobe TRIES TO DO TOO MUCH BY HIMSELF when the game is on the line. The polar opposite of LBJ.

So Kobe led teams have lost and lost big, but it's not because Kobe stopped trying to impose his will on the game.

You are forgetting the Suns game 7 when Kobe took 3 shots and scored 1 point.

BOLD.

Sorry, on my phone and my reading comprehension plummets along with my grammar.

 

[No. 16]

Just selecting a range of distance doesn't show what kind of shot it was. Note I said, "pull up" and "mid-range game". Sure he can catch and shoot at that distance, but that is different than being able to take one or two dribbles with a man on you and then stop, jump and shoot a quality shot over the defender. That is what I'm talking about and if he had that, he would be unstoppable ala MJ & Kobe. Because when push comes to shove and you need a basket, being able to hit a jump shot the second your defender is a little off balance and can't jump with you is the easiest, most consistent play in basketball. If do right, no can defense. Come to think of it, I did it this morning for game point in a pickup game against a younger, taller, more athletic player. I got the ball on the wing, drove two dribbles hard to my right and once the defender had to commit to cutting me off, I pulled up and hit an open jump shot. Lebron just doesn't do it enough, but I'm guessing I've practiced mine more than he has (mostly because I'm older and it was the only way I could score in college).

So you probably wouldn't believe it when I told you less than about 20% (10% from 10-15 and 22% from 15-23) of his shots from that range are assisted which means the vast majority are not catch and shoot but that he is in fact creating his own shot.I guess you should give LeBron a call and teach him this shot. I'm sure he love to hear the advice of a guy who hit a pull up jumper in a pickup game. I'm sure you've spent much more time working on your game than he has on his.So, you want to change it from pull up jumpers to something else? Maybe 1 legged Dirk jumpers he isn't good at hitting? Mid-range jumpers when his right shoe is tied tighter than his left? If you throw those kind of variables in then we definitely won't be able to use clearly defined statistics.

See post #1105.And since I'm 33, and played from the time I could walk and played in college, there is a very good chance I worked on my game as much or more than LeBron. I've pretty obviously spent more time on two dribble pull up jumpers since he was afraid to even attempt one with the NBA finals on the line. But then again, I'm only 6'2", slow, and could barely dunk in my prime. But I'll be damned if I was playing in the NBA finals and could do what he can do, that I wouldn't have tried to take my man to the baseline or elbow and elevate over him time and time again. That fact that he didn't even attempt it shows how glaring a weakness it is and the fact that a player who did play in the NBA and makes a career out of watching and evaluating NBA players says the same thing, you may want to rethink your stance on just how good his mid-range game really is.

Like I said earlier that's a matter of shot selection/mindset/will/aggressiveness rather than actual ability to make the mid-range jump shot.

 

[got_nugs]

Just selecting a range of distance doesn't show what kind of shot it was. Note I said, "pull up" and "mid-range game". Sure he can catch and shoot at that distance, but that is different than being able to take one or two dribbles with a man on you and then stop, jump and shoot a quality shot over the defender. That is what I'm talking about and if he had that, he would be unstoppable ala MJ & Kobe. Because when push comes to shove and you need a basket, being able to hit a jump shot the second your defender is a little off balance and can't jump with you is the easiest, most consistent play in basketball. If do right, no can defense. Come to think of it, I did it this morning for game point in a pickup game against a younger, taller, more athletic player. I got the ball on the wing, drove two dribbles hard to my right and once the defender had to commit to cutting me off, I pulled up and hit an open jump shot. Lebron just doesn't do it enough, but I'm guessing I've practiced mine more than he has (mostly because I'm older and it was the only way I could score in college).

So you probably wouldn't believe it when I told you less than about 20% (10% from 10-15 and 22% from 15-23) of his shots from that range are assisted which means the vast majority are not catch and shoot but that he is in fact creating his own shot.I guess you should give LeBron a call and teach him this shot. I'm sure he love to hear the advice of a guy who hit a pull up jumper in a pickup game. I'm sure you've spent much more time working on your game than he has on his.So, you want to change it from pull up jumpers to something else? Maybe 1 legged Dirk jumpers he isn't good at hitting? Mid-range jumpers when his right shoe is tied tighter than his left? If you throw those kind of variables in then we definitely won't be able to use clearly defined statistics.

See post #1105.And since I'm 33, and played from the time I could walk and played in college, there is a very good chance I worked on my game as much or more than LeBron. I've pretty obviously spent more time on two dribble pull up jumpers since he was afraid to even attempt one with the NBA finals on the line. But then again, I'm only 6'2", slow, and could barely dunk in my prime. But I'll be damned if I was playing in the NBA finals and could do what he can do, that I wouldn't have tried to take my man to the baseline or elbow and elevate over him time and time again. That fact that he didn't even attempt it shows how glaring a weakness it is and the fact that a player who did play in the NBA and makes a career out of watching and evaluating NBA players says the same thing, you may want to rethink your stance on just how good his mid-range game really is.

Like I said earlier that's a matter of shot selection/mindset/will/aggressiveness rather than actual ability to make the mid-range jump shot.

Concur.

 

[No. 16]

You would have never seen a Kobe team get beaten so badly that they give up the final 2 minutes of a game. Pathetic.

No. 16 had to have been kidding. Or else he missed Game 6 of the 2008 Finals. Or the Game 6 loss to the Spurs in 2003. I wonder if he saw Game 4 against the Mavericks last month.

Best.Post.Ever.Today.

Went over this before. Kobe teams will lose. It happens, but it is the manner in which they lost that is important. Aside from the Phoenix playoff game, has anyone EVER accused Kobe or the other greats of mailing it in like LBJ does?The main Kobe hater arguments is that Kobe TRIES TO DO TOO MUCH BY HIMSELF when the game is on the line. The polar opposite of LBJ. So Kobe led teams have lost and lost big, but it's not because Kobe stopped trying to impose his will on the game.

Didn't James score the last 10 points of a game in the playoffs this year? Wasn't it a given that when it came to the 4th quarter this season in the playoffs that it was LeBrons time to shine? I get your point and can't disagree that he's had a few games where nobody can give me a rational explanation on why he closed shop, I don't think it accurately defines his output as a whole. As a Heat fan I couldn't wait to watch him explode down the stretch like he did repeatedly this year....until he didn't. I don't think that defines a polar opposite....but I could be an idiot. Been called that and worse before. Just what my eyes saw.

Dude is a frontrunner.Again, not denying LBJ is a great player or can't impose his will on games but the scary thing is that he DOESN'T even try when the going gets tough. He defers waaaaay too much to his teammates.

 

[got_nugs]

Am I the only one that thinks LeBron/Wade/Bosh is the best thing that has happened to the NBA post Jordan? I think good press/bad press is really working in Sterns favor here. I know i've never watched more NBA. Even if you loathe LeBron...you are watching to see what he does or does not do next.

 

[Jayrod]

Just selecting a range of distance doesn't show what kind of shot it was. Note I said, "pull up" and "mid-range game". Sure he can catch and shoot at that distance, but that is different than being able to take one or two dribbles with a man on you and then stop, jump and shoot a quality shot over the defender. That is what I'm talking about and if he had that, he would be unstoppable ala MJ & Kobe. Because when push comes to shove and you need a basket, being able to hit a jump shot the second your defender is a little off balance and can't jump with you is the easiest, most consistent play in basketball. If do right, no can defense. Come to think of it, I did it this morning for game point in a pickup game against a younger, taller, more athletic player. I got the ball on the wing, drove two dribbles hard to my right and once the defender had to commit to cutting me off, I pulled up and hit an open jump shot. Lebron just doesn't do it enough, but I'm guessing I've practiced mine more than he has (mostly because I'm older and it was the only way I could score in college).

So you probably wouldn't believe it when I told you less than about 20% (10% from 10-15 and 22% from 15-23) of his shots from that range are assisted which means the vast majority are not catch and shoot but that he is in fact creating his own shot.I guess you should give LeBron a call and teach him this shot. I'm sure he love to hear the advice of a guy who hit a pull up jumper in a pickup game. I'm sure you've spent much more time working on your game than he has on his.So, you want to change it from pull up jumpers to something else? Maybe 1 legged Dirk jumpers he isn't good at hitting? Mid-range jumpers when his right shoe is tied tighter than his left? If you throw those kind of variables in then we definitely won't be able to use clearly defined statistics.

See post #1105.And since I'm 33, and played from the time I could walk and played in college, there is a very good chance I worked on my game as much or more than LeBron. I've pretty obviously spent more time on two dribble pull up jumpers since he was afraid to even attempt one with the NBA finals on the line. But then again, I'm only 6'2", slow, and could barely dunk in my prime. But I'll be damned if I was playing in the NBA finals and could do what he can do, that I wouldn't have tried to take my man to the baseline or elbow and elevate over him time and time again. That fact that he didn't even attempt it shows how glaring a weakness it is and the fact that a player who did play in the NBA and makes a career out of watching and evaluating NBA players says the same thing, you may want to rethink your stance on just how good his mid-range game really is.

Like I said earlier that's a matter of shot selection/mindset/will/aggressiveness rather than actual ability to make the mid-range jump shot.

But why? It just doesn't make any sense. If you practice something to the point that it is a quality basketball play, why not try to use it when the freaking NBA championship is on the line? I guess I just didn't see enough of the Heat play this year, but I do not remember him ever utilizing a mid-range game. Like I said in post #1105, I just must have missed the times it was on display.If he truly had developed that part of his game, it makes ZERO sense what he was doing in the finals.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Just selecting a range of distance doesn't show what kind of shot it was. Note I said, "pull up" and "mid-range game". Sure he can catch and shoot at that distance, but that is different than being able to take one or two dribbles with a man on you and then stop, jump and shoot a quality shot over the defender. That is what I'm talking about and if he had that, he would be unstoppable ala MJ & Kobe. Because when push comes to shove and you need a basket, being able to hit a jump shot the second your defender is a little off balance and can't jump with you is the easiest, most consistent play in basketball. If do right, no can defense. Come to think of it, I did it this morning for game point in a pickup game against a younger, taller, more athletic player. I got the ball on the wing, drove two dribbles hard to my right and once the defender had to commit to cutting me off, I pulled up and hit an open jump shot. Lebron just doesn't do it enough, but I'm guessing I've practiced mine more than he has (mostly because I'm older and it was the only way I could score in college).

So you probably wouldn't believe it when I told you less than about 20% (10% from 10-15 and 22% from 15-23) of his shots from that range are assisted which means the vast majority are not catch and shoot but that he is in fact creating his own shot.I guess you should give LeBron a call and teach him this shot. I'm sure he love to hear the advice of a guy who hit a pull up jumper in a pickup game. I'm sure you've spent much more time working on your game than he has on his.So, you want to change it from pull up jumpers to something else? Maybe 1 legged Dirk jumpers he isn't good at hitting? Mid-range jumpers when his right shoe is tied tighter than his left? If you throw those kind of variables in then we definitely won't be able to use clearly defined statistics.

See post #1105.And since I'm 33, and played from the time I could walk and played in college, there is a very good chance I worked on my game as much or more than LeBron. I've pretty obviously spent more time on two dribble pull up jumpers since he was afraid to even attempt one with the NBA finals on the line. But then again, I'm only 6'2", slow, and could barely dunk in my prime. But I'll be damned if I was playing in the NBA finals and could do what he can do, that I wouldn't have tried to take my man to the baseline or elbow and elevate over him time and time again. That fact that he didn't even attempt it shows how glaring a weakness it is and the fact that a player who did play in the NBA and makes a career out of watching and evaluating NBA players says the same thing, you may want to rethink your stance on just how good his mid-range game really is.

Do we need to bring up stupid stuff Jalen Rose has said? Rose has his job because he has a great personality and says crap to get attention not because of his scouting prowess. I would really like to hear more about how you can hit pull-up jumpers in pick up games. I feel that it directly correlates to LeBron James inability to do so in the NBA finals against other NBA players. My favorite part is how you somehow think that you've spent more time on your game than a guy who is one of the best players in the world and has been playing against elite competition the majority of his life.We don't know why LeBron didn't do certain things in the finals, only he does.

 

[No. 16]

Just selecting a range of distance doesn't show what kind of shot it was. Note I said, "pull up" and "mid-range game". Sure he can catch and shoot at that distance, but that is different than being able to take one or two dribbles with a man on you and then stop, jump and shoot a quality shot over the defender. That is what I'm talking about and if he had that, he would be unstoppable ala MJ & Kobe. Because when push comes to shove and you need a basket, being able to hit a jump shot the second your defender is a little off balance and can't jump with you is the easiest, most consistent play in basketball. If do right, no can defense.

Come to think of it, I did it this morning for game point in a pickup game against a younger, taller, more athletic player. I got the ball on the wing, drove two dribbles hard to my right and once the defender had to commit to cutting me off, I pulled up and hit an open jump shot. Lebron just doesn't do it enough, but I'm guessing I've practiced mine more than he has (mostly because I'm older and it was the only way I could score in college).

So you probably wouldn't believe it when I told you less than about 20% (10% from 10-15 and 22% from 15-23) of his shots from that range are assisted which means the vast majority are not catch and shoot but that he is in fact creating his own shot.I guess you should give LeBron a call and teach him this shot. I'm sure he love to hear the advice of a guy who hit a pull up jumper in a pickup game. I'm sure you've spent much more time working on your game than he has on his.

So, you want to change it from pull up jumpers to something else? Maybe 1 legged Dirk jumpers he isn't good at hitting? Mid-range jumpers when his right shoe is tied tighter than his left? If you throw those kind of variables in then we definitely won't be able to use clearly defined statistics.

See post #1105.And since I'm 33, and played from the time I could walk and played in college, there is a very good chance I worked on my game as much or more than LeBron. I've pretty obviously spent more time on two dribble pull up jumpers since he was afraid to even attempt one with the NBA finals on the line. But then again, I'm only 6'2", slow, and could barely dunk in my prime. But I'll be damned if I was playing in the NBA finals and could do what he can do, that I wouldn't have tried to take my man to the baseline or elbow and elevate over him time and time again. That fact that he didn't even attempt it shows how glaring a weakness it is and the fact that a player who did play in the NBA and makes a career out of watching and evaluating NBA players says the same thing, you may want to rethink your stance on just how good his mid-range game really is.

Like I said earlier that's a matter of shot selection/mindset/will/aggressiveness rather than actual ability to make the mid-range jump shot.

But why? It just doesn't make any sense. If you practice something to the point that it is a quality basketball play, why not try to use it when the freaking NBA championship is on the line? I guess I just didn't see enough of the Heat play this year, but I do not remember him ever utilizing a mid-range game. Like I said in post #1105, I just must have missed the times it was on display.If he truly had developed that part of his game, it makes ZERO sense what he was doing in the finals.

Uhhh... that's kind of the whole point.

 

[got_nugs]

Just selecting a range of distance doesn't show what kind of shot it was. Note I said, "pull up" and "mid-range game". Sure he can catch and shoot at that distance, but that is different than being able to take one or two dribbles with a man on you and then stop, jump and shoot a quality shot over the defender. That is what I'm talking about and if he had that, he would be unstoppable ala MJ & Kobe. Because when push comes to shove and you need a basket, being able to hit a jump shot the second your defender is a little off balance and can't jump with you is the easiest, most consistent play in basketball. If do right, no can defense. Come to think of it, I did it this morning for game point in a pickup game against a younger, taller, more athletic player. I got the ball on the wing, drove two dribbles hard to my right and once the defender had to commit to cutting me off, I pulled up and hit an open jump shot. Lebron just doesn't do it enough, but I'm guessing I've practiced mine more than he has (mostly because I'm older and it was the only way I could score in college).

So you probably wouldn't believe it when I told you less than about 20% (10% from 10-15 and 22% from 15-23) of his shots from that range are assisted which means the vast majority are not catch and shoot but that he is in fact creating his own shot.I guess you should give LeBron a call and teach him this shot. I'm sure he love to hear the advice of a guy who hit a pull up jumper in a pickup game. I'm sure you've spent much more time working on your game than he has on his.So, you want to change it from pull up jumpers to something else? Maybe 1 legged Dirk jumpers he isn't good at hitting? Mid-range jumpers when his right shoe is tied tighter than his left? If you throw those kind of variables in then we definitely won't be able to use clearly defined statistics.

See post #1105.And since I'm 33, and played from the time I could walk and played in college, there is a very good chance I worked on my game as much or more than LeBron. I've pretty obviously spent more time on two dribble pull up jumpers since he was afraid to even attempt one with the NBA finals on the line. But then again, I'm only 6'2", slow, and could barely dunk in my prime. But I'll be damned if I was playing in the NBA finals and could do what he can do, that I wouldn't have tried to take my man to the baseline or elbow and elevate over him time and time again. That fact that he didn't even attempt it shows how glaring a weakness it is and the fact that a player who did play in the NBA and makes a career out of watching and evaluating NBA players says the same thing, you may want to rethink your stance on just how good his mid-range game really is.

Do we need to bring up stupid stuff Jalen Rose has said? Rose has his job because he has a great personality and says crap to get attention not because of his scouting prowess. I would really like to hear more about how you can hit pull-up jumpers in pick up games. I feel that it directly correlates to LeBron James inability to do so in the NBA finals against other NBA players. My favorite part is how you somehow think that you've spent more time on your game than a guy who is one of the best players in the world and has been playing against elite competition the majority of his life.We don't know why LeBron didn't do certain things in the finals, only he does.

 

[CBusAlex]

the point is saying he will NEVER win is silly. He could win one simply by being on a great team and he sits the bench.

This is exponentially less likely than him winning one as a starter.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Again, not denying LBJ is a great player or can't impose his will on games but the scary thing is that he DOESN'T even try when the going gets tough. He defers waaaaay too much to his teammates.

But the going go tough in both the Chicago and Boston series, and he kept up big time. He was very clutch in those two series, even when playing from behind in some of those games. Which makes his Finals play that much more inexplicable. It is like a switch was flicked to where he decided to just stop playing his normal type of game. A lot of credit must go to the Dallas defense, which collectively played really well and made a point to not let him dominate, but at some point, you have to try and fight through it. And James never did. And only he knows why.

 

[got_nugs]

Again, not denying LBJ is a great player or can't impose his will on games but the scary thing is that he DOESN'T even try when the going gets tough. He defers waaaaay too much to his teammates.

But the going go tough in both the Chicago and Boston series, and he kept up big time. He was very clutch in those two series, even when playing from behind in some of those games. Which makes his Finals play that much more inexplicable. It is like a switch was flicked to where he decided to just stop playing his normal type of game. A lot of credit must go to the Dallas defense, which collectively played really well and made a point to not let him dominate, but at some point, you have to try and fight through it. And James never did. And only he knows why.

No front-running in those series. 2 weeks ago Scottie Pippen said he could end up being greater than Jordan. Silly as that sounds now, it does at least give us a reminder of how well he was playing at that time, in the clutch, when it mattered the most. Maybe Bibby was dishing on his sister in the finals?

 

[culdeus]

I love the people here that say LeBron will win a ring while rotting on the bench in mop-up duty.

 

[Jayrod]

Just selecting a range of distance doesn't show what kind of shot it was. Note I said, "pull up" and "mid-range game". Sure he can catch and shoot at that distance, but that is different than being able to take one or two dribbles with a man on you and then stop, jump and shoot a quality shot over the defender. That is what I'm talking about and if he had that, he would be unstoppable ala MJ & Kobe. Because when push comes to shove and you need a basket, being able to hit a jump shot the second your defender is a little off balance and can't jump with you is the easiest, most consistent play in basketball. If do right, no can defense.

Come to think of it, I did it this morning for game point in a pickup game against a younger, taller, more athletic player. I got the ball on the wing, drove two dribbles hard to my right and once the defender had to commit to cutting me off, I pulled up and hit an open jump shot. Lebron just doesn't do it enough, but I'm guessing I've practiced mine more than he has (mostly because I'm older and it was the only way I could score in college).

So you probably wouldn't believe it when I told you less than about 20% (10% from 10-15 and 22% from 15-23) of his shots from that range are assisted which means the vast majority are not catch and shoot but that he is in fact creating his own shot.I guess you should give LeBron a call and teach him this shot. I'm sure he love to hear the advice of a guy who hit a pull up jumper in a pickup game. I'm sure you've spent much more time working on your game than he has on his.

So, you want to change it from pull up jumpers to something else? Maybe 1 legged Dirk jumpers he isn't good at hitting? Mid-range jumpers when his right shoe is tied tighter than his left? If you throw those kind of variables in then we definitely won't be able to use clearly defined statistics.

See post #1105.And since I'm 33, and played from the time I could walk and played in college, there is a very good chance I worked on my game as much or more than LeBron. I've pretty obviously spent more time on two dribble pull up jumpers since he was afraid to even attempt one with the NBA finals on the line. But then again, I'm only 6'2", slow, and could barely dunk in my prime. But I'll be damned if I was playing in the NBA finals and could do what he can do, that I wouldn't have tried to take my man to the baseline or elbow and elevate over him time and time again. That fact that he didn't even attempt it shows how glaring a weakness it is and the fact that a player who did play in the NBA and makes a career out of watching and evaluating NBA players says the same thing, you may want to rethink your stance on just how good his mid-range game really is.

Do we need to bring up stupid stuff Jalen Rose has said? Rose has his job because he has a great personality and says crap to get attention not because of his scouting prowess. I would really like to hear more about how you can hit pull-up jumpers in pick up games. I feel that it directly correlates to LeBron James inability to do so in the NBA finals against other NBA players. My favorite part is how you somehow think that you've spent more time on your game than a guy who is one of the best players in the world and has been playing against elite competition the majority of his life.

We don't know why LeBron didn't do certain things in the finals, only he does.

I have a 7 year head start, that's how. And I'd love to hear your obvious credentials for critiquing his game since you obviously know more than me or Jalen Rose. Tell me, Cliff, how many years did you play competitive ball? How many summer days have you spent in a gym working on your footwork with and without the ball so that when you elevate to shoot it is exactly the same? How many two ball dribble drills and Mikan drills did you do? How many Steve Alford shooting workouts did you do? How many pickup games have you played against players who at least played in college? Because for me, it is more than I can even remember.

You can keep your stats, because my eyes don't lie, and you know what, neither does the game. Because when the game was on the line, Lebron didn't shoot quality mid-range jumpers and his team didn't win and despite being hands down the most gifted athlete on the floor for six games, he could only help his team win 2 of them. When you play 19% of your team's minutes and have his skills, that is inexcusable and so for the 3rd time now, I'll admit that maybe I just didn't get to "witness" this great mid-range game of his and he truly does have the skills, but I have NEVER, EVER SEEN IT. Not in previous years and not in the finals and until I do, I'll take Rose's assessment as reinforcement of what I've seen with my own eyes; LeBron's mid-range game is weak.

 

[got_nugs]

Kurt Vonnegut hated the semi colon.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Just selecting a range of distance doesn't show what kind of shot it was. Note I said, "pull up" and "mid-range game". Sure he can catch and shoot at that distance, but that is different than being able to take one or two dribbles with a man on you and then stop, jump and shoot a quality shot over the defender. That is what I'm talking about and if he had that, he would be unstoppable ala MJ & Kobe. Because when push comes to shove and you need a basket, being able to hit a jump shot the second your defender is a little off balance and can't jump with you is the easiest, most consistent play in basketball. If do right, no can defense.

Come to think of it, I did it this morning for game point in a pickup game against a younger, taller, more athletic player. I got the ball on the wing, drove two dribbles hard to my right and once the defender had to commit to cutting me off, I pulled up and hit an open jump shot. Lebron just doesn't do it enough, but I'm guessing I've practiced mine more than he has (mostly because I'm older and it was the only way I could score in college).

So you probably wouldn't believe it when I told you less than about 20% (10% from 10-15 and 22% from 15-23) of his shots from that range are assisted which means the vast majority are not catch and shoot but that he is in fact creating his own shot.I guess you should give LeBron a call and teach him this shot. I'm sure he love to hear the advice of a guy who hit a pull up jumper in a pickup game. I'm sure you've spent much more time working on your game than he has on his.

So, you want to change it from pull up jumpers to something else? Maybe 1 legged Dirk jumpers he isn't good at hitting? Mid-range jumpers when his right shoe is tied tighter than his left? If you throw those kind of variables in then we definitely won't be able to use clearly defined statistics.

See post #1105.And since I'm 33, and played from the time I could walk and played in college, there is a very good chance I worked on my game as much or more than LeBron. I've pretty obviously spent more time on two dribble pull up jumpers since he was afraid to even attempt one with the NBA finals on the line. But then again, I'm only 6'2", slow, and could barely dunk in my prime. But I'll be damned if I was playing in the NBA finals and could do what he can do, that I wouldn't have tried to take my man to the baseline or elbow and elevate over him time and time again. That fact that he didn't even attempt it shows how glaring a weakness it is and the fact that a player who did play in the NBA and makes a career out of watching and evaluating NBA players says the same thing, you may want to rethink your stance on just how good his mid-range game really is.

Do we need to bring up stupid stuff Jalen Rose has said? Rose has his job because he has a great personality and says crap to get attention not because of his scouting prowess. I would really like to hear more about how you can hit pull-up jumpers in pick up games. I feel that it directly correlates to LeBron James inability to do so in the NBA finals against other NBA players. My favorite part is how you somehow think that you've spent more time on your game than a guy who is one of the best players in the world and has been playing against elite competition the majority of his life.

We don't know why LeBron didn't do certain things in the finals, only he does.

I have a 7 year head start, that's how. And I'd love to hear your obvious credentials for critiquing his game since you obviously know more than me or Jalen Rose. Tell me, Cliff, how many years did you play competitive ball? How many summer days have you spent in a gym working on your footwork with and without the ball so that when you elevate to shoot it is exactly the same? How many two ball dribble drills and Mikan drills did you do? How many Steve Alford shooting workouts did you do? How many pickup games have you played against players who at least played in college? Because for me, it is more than I can even remember.

You can keep your stats, because my eyes don't lie, and you know what, neither does the game. Because when the game was on the line, Lebron didn't shoot quality mid-range jumpers and his team didn't win and despite being hands down the most gifted athlete on the floor for six games, he could only help his team win 2 of them. When you play 19% of your team's minutes and have his skills, that is inexcusable and so for the 3rd time now, I'll admit that maybe I just didn't get to "witness" this great mid-range game of his and he truly does have the skills, but I have NEVER, EVER SEEN IT. Not in previous years and not in the finals and until I do, I'll take Rose's assessment as reinforcement of what I've seen with my own eyes; LeBron's mid-range game is weak.

I've played hockey for the last 25 years. In my beer league I can step over the blue line and fire a slapshot top shelf about 30% of the time. It amazes that the Canucks and Bruins can't do this. I know that I've put in a lot more work on my game because some of them are only 23 years old so I have a big head start on them. How many Bobby Orr instructional videos have they watched? How many Al Macinnis shooting videos have they watched? It baffles me that they aren't doing this when the game is on the line. If I can do it in my beer league then the Sedin's sure as hell should be able to do it in the NHL finals. Your arguments are ridiculous. You are right that LeBron did not play well in the finals but it had nothing to do with his ability. If you want to make statements about his heart/drive/passion, go right ahead, I won't argue those. But saying that he is a poor mid-range shooter is completely false and there is a pile of evidence to back it up.

You must not watch much ball if you haven't seen it. LeBron took 553 mid-range jumpshots this year or 7 per game.

 

[Kev4029]

Just selecting a range of distance doesn't show what kind of shot it was. Note I said, "pull up" and "mid-range game". Sure he can catch and shoot at that distance, but that is different than being able to take one or two dribbles with a man on you and then stop, jump and shoot a quality shot over the defender. That is what I'm talking about and if he had that, he would be unstoppable ala MJ & Kobe. Because when push comes to shove and you need a basket, being able to hit a jump shot the second your defender is a little off balance and can't jump with you is the easiest, most consistent play in basketball. If do right, no can defense.

Come to think of it, I did it this morning for game point in a pickup game against a younger, taller, more athletic player. I got the ball on the wing, drove two dribbles hard to my right and once the defender had to commit to cutting me off, I pulled up and hit an open jump shot. Lebron just doesn't do it enough, but I'm guessing I've practiced mine more than he has (mostly because I'm older and it was the only way I could score in college).

So you probably wouldn't believe it when I told you less than about 20% (10% from 10-15 and 22% from 15-23) of his shots from that range are assisted which means the vast majority are not catch and shoot but that he is in fact creating his own shot.I guess you should give LeBron a call and teach him this shot. I'm sure he love to hear the advice of a guy who hit a pull up jumper in a pickup game. I'm sure you've spent much more time working on your game than he has on his.

So, you want to change it from pull up jumpers to something else? Maybe 1 legged Dirk jumpers he isn't good at hitting? Mid-range jumpers when his right shoe is tied tighter than his left? If you throw those kind of variables in then we definitely won't be able to use clearly defined statistics.

See post #1105.And since I'm 33, and played from the time I could walk and played in college, there is a very good chance I worked on my game as much or more than LeBron. I've pretty obviously spent more time on two dribble pull up jumpers since he was afraid to even attempt one with the NBA finals on the line. But then again, I'm only 6'2", slow, and could barely dunk in my prime. But I'll be damned if I was playing in the NBA finals and could do what he can do, that I wouldn't have tried to take my man to the baseline or elbow and elevate over him time and time again. That fact that he didn't even attempt it shows how glaring a weakness it is and the fact that a player who did play in the NBA and makes a career out of watching and evaluating NBA players says the same thing, you may want to rethink your stance on just how good his mid-range game really is.

Do we need to bring up stupid stuff Jalen Rose has said? Rose has his job because he has a great personality and says crap to get attention not because of his scouting prowess. I would really like to hear more about how you can hit pull-up jumpers in pick up games. I feel that it directly correlates to LeBron James inability to do so in the NBA finals against other NBA players. My favorite part is how you somehow think that you've spent more time on your game than a guy who is one of the best players in the world and has been playing against elite competition the majority of his life.

We don't know why LeBron didn't do certain things in the finals, only he does.

I have a 7 year head start, that's how. And I'd love to hear your obvious credentials for critiquing his game since you obviously know more than me or Jalen Rose. Tell me, Cliff, how many years did you play competitive ball? How many summer days have you spent in a gym working on your footwork with and without the ball so that when you elevate to shoot it is exactly the same? How many two ball dribble drills and Mikan drills did you do? How many Steve Alford shooting workouts did you do? How many pickup games have you played against players who at least played in college? Because for me, it is more than I can even remember.

You can keep your stats, because my eyes don't lie, and you know what, neither does the game. Because when the game was on the line, Lebron didn't shoot quality mid-range jumpers and his team didn't win and despite being hands down the most gifted athlete on the floor for six games, he could only help his team win 2 of them. When you play 19% of your team's minutes and have his skills, that is inexcusable and so for the 3rd time now, I'll admit that maybe I just didn't get to "witness" this great mid-range game of his and he truly does have the skills, but I have NEVER, EVER SEEN IT. Not in previous years and not in the finals and until I do, I'll take Rose's assessment as reinforcement of what I've seen with my own eyes; LeBron's mid-range game is weak.

I've played hockey for the last 25 years. In my beer league I can step over the blue line and fire a slapshot top shelf about 30% of the time. It amazes that the Canucks and Bruins can't do this. I know that I've put in a lot more work on my game because some of them are only 23 years old so I have a big head start on them. How many Bobby Orr instructional videos have they watched? How many Al Macinnis shooting videos have they watched? It baffles me that they aren't doing this when the game is on the line. If I can do it in my beer league then the Sedin's sure as hell should be able to do it in the NHL finals. Your arguments are ridiculous. You are right that LeBron did not play well in the finals but it had nothing to do with his ability. If you want to make statements about his heart/drive/passion, go right ahead, I won't argue those. But saying that he is a poor mid-range shooter is completely false and there is a pile of evidence to back it up.

You must not watch much ball if you haven't seen it. LeBron took 553 mid-range jumpshots this year or 7 per game.

This argument you're having reminds me very much of anything to try to say to MPL or JMon, you bring all this evidence to the table and they dismiss it because "that's not what I see". Keep fightin the good fight.

 

[got_nugs]

Kurt Vonnegut hated the semi colon.

I thought it was the right place there. However, I'm getting way too fired up considering the subject matter and that it is early on Tuesday.

You'd have to ask Kurt on that. I have been writing since pre-K, perfecting my cursive and punctuation. Trying to dot that I the same way each time and all that...but only Kurt could answer the semi colon's relevance to him.Just having fun at this point obviously. This isn't something that can be debated to a conclusion, only played out by LBJ and Co.It's fun, though.

 

[Tom Servo]

It's good to see Jayrod & Cliff Claven going Kenny Powers on us.

 

[Jayrod]

I've played hockey for the last 25 years. In my beer league I can step over the blue line and fire a slapshot top shelf about 30% of the time. It amazes that the Canucks and Bruins can't do this. I know that I've put in a lot more work on my game because some of them are only 23 years old so I have a big head start on them. How many Bobby Orr instructional videos have they watched? How many Al Macinnis shooting videos have they watched? It baffles me that they aren't doing this when the game is on the line. If I can do it in my beer league then the Sedin's sure as hell should be able to do it in the NHL finals. Your arguments are ridiculous. You are right that LeBron did not play well in the finals but it had nothing to do with his ability. If you want to make statements about his heart/drive/passion, go right ahead, I won't argue those. But saying that he is a poor mid-range shooter is completely false and there is a pile of evidence to back it up.You must not watch much ball if you haven't seen it. LeBron took 553 mid-range jumpshots this year or 7 per game.

Right, like I thought, no basketball experience. Clearly you know your stuff. Look man, ball is ball. What I can do to that 20-something guy in a pickup game this morning, LeBron can do to Kidd, Stevenson, or whoever is checking him in a finals game, and should be able to do it better....because unlike being 5 years older, slower and shorter he is actually younger, faster and taller than those guys. So yeah, my experience is relevant. For the FOURTH TIME NOW, I admit I didn't watch much NBA this year and the only time I really watched the Heat was in the Finals. Maybe if you spent as much time reading my posts as you do coming up with clever replies, you would have caught that. Maybe LeBron has the mid-range game you claim and maybe he just lost it somewhere after Chicago. Or maybe, it isn't as great as the stats show (wouldn't be the first time), and when the going got tough, he didn't trust it enough. Either way, I've still never seen this facet to his game and such am very skeptical as to its existence.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I've played hockey for the last 25 years. In my beer league I can step over the blue line and fire a slapshot top shelf about 30% of the time. It amazes that the Canucks and Bruins can't do this. I know that I've put in a lot more work on my game because some of them are only 23 years old so I have a big head start on them. How many Bobby Orr instructional videos have they watched? How many Al Macinnis shooting videos have they watched? It baffles me that they aren't doing this when the game is on the line. If I can do it in my beer league then the Sedin's sure as hell should be able to do it in the NHL finals. Your arguments are ridiculous. You are right that LeBron did not play well in the finals but it had nothing to do with his ability. If you want to make statements about his heart/drive/passion, go right ahead, I won't argue those. But saying that he is a poor mid-range shooter is completely false and there is a pile of evidence to back it up.You must not watch much ball if you haven't seen it. LeBron took 553 mid-range jumpshots this year or 7 per game.

Right, like I thought, no basketball experience. Clearly you know your stuff. Look man, ball is ball. What I can do to that 20-something guy in a pickup game this morning, LeBron can do to Kidd, Stevenson, or whoever is checking him in a finals game, and should be able to do it better....because unlike being 5 years older, slower and shorter he is actually younger, faster and taller than those guys. So yeah, my experience is relevant. For the FOURTH TIME NOW, I admit I didn't watch much NBA this year and the only time I really watched the Heat was in the Finals. Maybe if you spent as much time reading my posts as you do coming up with clever replies, you would have caught that. Maybe LeBron has the mid-range game you claim and maybe he just lost it somewhere after Chicago. Or maybe, it isn't as great as the stats show (wouldn't be the first time), and when the going got tough, he didn't trust it enough. Either way, I've still never seen this facet to his game and such am very skeptical as to its existence.

So you only watched LeBron for 6 games this year but can definitively say that he has no mid-range game even though every single statistic says that he does? We know that LeBron did not play up to his potential in the finals. No one is denying that. Maybe you should spend less time schooling guys that quicker, younger and taller than you and spend some time watching the Heat play if you want to accurately rip on his abilities.I have been reading your posts. And for the THIRD TIME NOW, your pickup game skillz are completely irrelevant. You seriously believe that the ball you play against a bunch of random guys is the same as the ball played in the NBA? Wow.

 

[got_nugs]

 

[Jayrod]

I have been reading your posts. And for the THIRD TIME NOW, your pickup game skillz are completely irrelevant. You seriously believe that the ball you play against a bunch of random guys is the same as the ball played in the NBA? Wow.

Nice strawman. I really hope your reading comprehension isn't so poor as to lead you to believe that is actually what I am saying and are just trying to be cute, but just in case let me spell it out for you real slow, grade school style:Jayrod is to pickup guy defender as LeBron is to Dallas Mavericks defender

Got it? It is an apt comparison because the corresponding defenders are at our respective levels of talent. And despite the vast dropoff in talent, it isn't so great as to actually change the game we are playing. It is still basketball played by grown men on a similar court with the same size ball, the same size goals and almost exactly the same rules. Especially since all I am talking about is one basic move that has been used in basketball games for decades.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I have been reading your posts. And for the THIRD TIME NOW, your pickup game skillz are completely irrelevant. You seriously believe that the ball you play against a bunch of random guys is the same as the ball played in the NBA? Wow.

Nice strawman. I really hope your reading comprehension isn't so poor as to lead you to believe that is actually what I am saying and are just trying to be cute, but just in case let me spell it out for you real slow, grade school style:Jayrod is to pickup guy defender as LeBron is to Dallas Mavericks defender

Got it? It is an apt comparison because the corresponding defenders are at our respective levels of talent. And despite the vast dropoff in talent, it isn't so great as to actually change the game we are playing. It is still basketball played by grown men on a similar court with the same size ball, the same size goals and almost exactly the same rules. Especially since all I am talking about is one basic move that has been used in basketball games for decades.

Cliff is to beer league goalie as Daniel Sedin is to NHL goalie.I score 4 goals a game. Why doesn't Sedin? Or Crosby? Or Ovechkin? All I'm talking about is a slapshot from the blueline. It is the same shot that has been used in hockey games for decades.

 

[Jayrod]

So you only watched LeBron for 6 games this year but can definitively say that he has no mid-range game even though every single statistic says that he does? We know that LeBron did not play up to his potential in the finals. No one is denying that. Maybe you should spend less time schooling guys that quicker, younger and taller than you and spend some time watching the Heat play if you want to accurately rip on his abilities.

Beyond the six games, I've watched LeBron for years now and haven't seen the mid-range game. I sit and watch the finals and, guess what?, he shows a poor mid-range game. Maybe he has it, maybe he doesn't. Past history and what I just saw says he doesn't. There are lies, damn lies and stats. They don't tell the whole story and never will. I've got my preconceived idea from years of observation, confirmed by the 6 most recent games and a professional analyst. I may be wrong, but you may be too.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

So you only watched LeBron for 6 games this year but can definitively say that he has no mid-range game even though every single statistic says that he does? We know that LeBron did not play up to his potential in the finals. No one is denying that. Maybe you should spend less time schooling guys that quicker, younger and taller than you and spend some time watching the Heat play if you want to accurately rip on his abilities.

Beyond the six games, I've watched LeBron for years now and haven't seen the mid-range game. I sit and watch the finals and, guess what?, he shows a poor mid-range game. Maybe he has it, maybe he doesn't. Past history and what I just saw says he doesn't. There are lies, damn lies and stats. They don't tell the whole story and never will. I've got my preconceived idea from years of observation, confirmed by the 6 most recent games and a professional analyst. I may be wrong, but you may be too.

I'm not wrong. The statistics prove that he has a better jumper shot than his peers.

 

[Jayrod]

I have been reading your posts. And for the THIRD TIME NOW, your pickup game skillz are completely irrelevant. You seriously believe that the ball you play against a bunch of random guys is the same as the ball played in the NBA? Wow.

Nice strawman. I really hope your reading comprehension isn't so poor as to lead you to believe that is actually what I am saying and are just trying to be cute, but just in case let me spell it out for you real slow, grade school style:Jayrod is to pickup guy defender as LeBron is to Dallas Mavericks defender

Got it? It is an apt comparison because the corresponding defenders are at our respective levels of talent. And despite the vast dropoff in talent, it isn't so great as to actually change the game we are playing. It is still basketball played by grown men on a similar court with the same size ball, the same size goals and almost exactly the same rules. Especially since all I am talking about is one basic move that has been used in basketball games for decades.

Cliff is to beer league goalie as Daniel Sedin is to NHL goalie.I score 4 goals a game. Why doesn't Sedin? Or Crosby? Or Ovechkin? All I'm talking about is a slapshot from the blueline. It is the same shot that has been used in hockey games for decades.

If you were talking about a penalty shot, I'd agree. In basketball, a one on one move is the equivalent of a penalty shot. Just you, the one defender and the goal. I'd expect you to beat a comparative beer league goalie as often as Sedin beats an NHL goalie in a penalty shot.

 

[Jayrod]

So you only watched LeBron for 6 games this year but can definitively say that he has no mid-range game even though every single statistic says that he does?

We know that LeBron did not play up to his potential in the finals. No one is denying that. Maybe you should spend less time schooling guys that quicker, younger and taller than you and spend some time watching the Heat play if you want to accurately rip on his abilities.

Beyond the six games, I've watched LeBron for years now and haven't seen the mid-range game. I sit and watch the finals and, guess what?, he shows a poor mid-range game. Maybe he has it, maybe he doesn't. Past history and what I just saw says he doesn't. There are lies, damn lies and stats. They don't tell the whole story and never will. I've got my preconceived idea from years of observation, confirmed by the 6 most recent games and a professional analyst. I may be wrong, but you may be too.

I'm not wrong. The statistics prove that he has a better jumper shot than his peers.

The statistics prove one thing, that he makes a higher % of his shots from that range than his peers and nothing more or less. "Better" includes so many things that you can never quantify and I'll promise you that Kobe Bryant has a better mid-range game than Lebron James no matter what the stats say.

 

[gandalas]

So you only watched LeBron for 6 games this year but can definitively say that he has no mid-range game even though every single statistic says that he does? We know that LeBron did not play up to his potential in the finals. No one is denying that. Maybe you should spend less time schooling guys that quicker, younger and taller than you and spend some time watching the Heat play if you want to accurately rip on his abilities.

Beyond the six games, I've watched LeBron for years now and haven't seen the mid-range game. I sit and watch the finals and, guess what?, he shows a poor mid-range game. Maybe he has it, maybe he doesn't. Past history and what I just saw says he doesn't. There are lies, damn lies and stats. They don't tell the whole story and never will. I've got my preconceived idea from years of observation, confirmed by the 6 most recent games and a professional analyst. I may be wrong, but you may be too.

I'm not wrong. The statistics prove that he has a better jumper shot than his peers.

Just to jump in the middle here, but you are both arguing about his Finals performance, not his regular season stats. So what was his percentage of Mid-range jumpers taken and made in the Finals, since those are the games that Jayrod watched? Maybe you are both right?You just keep reiterating that his regular season stats show he is above average, but what about just this series?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

lol at, "Kobe would never quit except for that time he quit."

 

[Bob Sacamano]

GB you Deeples. Doing the lord's work in here.

 

[No. 16]

lol at, "Kobe would never quit except for that time he quit."

He quit because he was foolishly sending a message, not because he withered due to pressure.

 

[JMon348]

Scottie Pippen had it all wrong when he recently compared LeBron James with Michael Jordan, said one former Chicago Bulls teammate.

"The irony to me is that LeBron is not Michael. LeBron is actually Scottie," former Bull and current television analyst Steve Kerr said Monday on "The Waddle & Silvy Show" on ESPN 1000. "He's so similar to Scottie in that defensively he was just a monster, could guard anybody, really more of a point forward than scoring guard. Scottie always loved to distribute the ball. That's really where LeBron's preference is.

"Phil Jackson used to call Scottie a 'sometimes shooter.' Sometimes they would go in, sometimes they wouldn't. That's how it is with LeBron. He's a great talent and a great player but you can see his flaws as as a basketball player. He doesn't have an offensive game that he can rely on: no low-post game, no mid-range jump shot so when the game really gets tough he has a hard time finding easy baskets and getting himself going. That's what Michael did in his sleep so that's why the comparison is wrong."

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/214106/Kerr_Sees_Similarities_Between_James_Pippen#ixzz1PH1jrv5c-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steve Kerr, former GM, ex player.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

lol at, "Kobe would never quit except for that time he quit."

He quit because he was foolishly sending a message, not because he withered due to pressure.

Sometimes I dreamThat he is meYou've got to see that's how I dream to be

 

[No. 16]

The sample size of the regular season >>> than sample size of the finals of the playoffs. Which means a greater accuracy of LBJ's shooting accuracy.

People who are bashing LBJ are bashing because his aggressiveness/play drastically changed not because he lost the ability to do certain things in the playoffs.

So looking at his mid-range attempts/FG% for the finals is rather pointless regarding his mid-range ability. The bottom line is his midrange game was above average during the regular season.

Jayrod is saying LBJ didn't shoot the midrange in the finals because he sucks at it.

Myself and maybe Cliff are saying LBJ has a solid midrange game. So why he did not use it in the finals is the question everyone would like the answer too.

 

[Ghost Rider]

James is neither Jordan nor Pippen. Comparisons to either are rather silly, but I get how people always want to compare current player to ones in the past, but really, he isn't close to being either.