Lebron James will never win a championship... (1 Viewer)

[Anarchy99]

The Cavs are up 2-1 in the Finals against the team that destroyed the West this season, and the Cavs are doing this without three of their starters.

Who from the West beats the Cavs in a best-of-seven, especially the version of the Cavs that existed before Irving and Love got hurt?

Cleveland hasn't won the series yet, but as far as opponents from the West go, how about any of the teams that have some size, can rebound, and aren't soft. Jump shooting teams are always at risk of losing games when they don't shoot well, especially in the playoffs.

Then how on earth did GSW manage to win 67 regular season games with historically strong differentials and get through the West playoffs? Luck?

The playoffs are always different than the regular season. Most teams scoring goes down, offenses turn into half court games, the refs let more go, and games are typically much more physical. If people are not aware of this, then they haven't watched a lot of basketball over the years.

As I heard on the radio this week, players that generally are not great defenders and/or not the greatest of hustle players would be inclined to not get back on defense in the regular season but would be more inclined to pick it up in the playoffs.

Clearly GS has not put up the same offensive numbers in the playoffs and are way off that against Cleveland. That is a direct problem with what is going on against the Cavs. Cleveland gets ahead and can isolate LeBron, run down the shot clock, and live with the result of that possession, Either LeBron scores, finds someone open for a last second jump shot, or there are guys back to stop the break. If GS were ahead or had a decent size lead, CLE could not use the same strategy . . . they would have to pick up the pace of play.

In the finals, GS has averaged 97 ppg vs. 110 in the regular season (with 2 games going to OT). When you eliminate the OTs, their scoring in regulation falls to 92 ppg. Games turn out different when you score 17% fewer points. GS has seen their shooting percentage drop by almost 7 points in the finals vs. the regular season and 3 point % drop about 9%.

 

[TobiasFunke]

The Cavs are up 2-1 in the Finals against the team that destroyed the West this season, and the Cavs are doing this without three of their starters.

Who from the West beats the Cavs in a best-of-seven, especially the version of the Cavs that existed before Irving and Love got hurt?

Cleveland hasn't won the series yet, but as far as opponents from the West go, how about any of the teams that have some size, can rebound, and aren't soft. Jump shooting teams are always at risk of losing games when they don't shoot well, especially in the playoffs.

Then how on earth did GSW manage to win 67 regular season games with historically strong differentials and get through the West playoffs? Luck?

The playoffs are always different than the regular season. Most teams scoring goes down, offenses turn into half court games, the refs let more go, and games are typically much more physical. If people are not aware of this, then they haven't watched a lot of basketball over the years.

As I heard on the radio this week, players that generally are not great defenders and/or not the greatest of hustle players would be inclined to not get back on defense in the regular season but would be more inclined to pick it up in the playoffs.

Clearly GS has not put up the same offensive numbers in the playoffs and are way off that against Cleveland. That is a direct problem with what is going on against the Cavs. Cleveland gets ahead and can isolate LeBron, run down the shot clock, and live with the result of that possession, Either LeBron scores, finds someone open for a last second jump shot, or there are guys back to stop the break. If GS were ahead or had a decent size lead, CLE could not use the same strategy . . . they would have to pick up the pace of play.

1. None of this explains how the Warriors rolled through a decent Pelicans team and a very good Rockets team and was able to recover from a 2-1 hole against the Grizzlies with three straight ###-whuppings. All of that happened in the playoffs.

2. The sentiment about playoff intensity on defense has some validity, but the difference isn't nearly as stark as it used to be. Defenses are far more complex than they were even a few years ago, and guys who slack on defense these days get called out by fans and media almost instantly thanks to social media and unlimited access to game and SportVU footage.

Most of this probably belongs in the NBA thread instead of here, but the point is that what LeBron has his team doing against this Golden State squad is incredible. IMO the 2014-15 Warriors would easily go down as one of the ten best teams in NBA history if they win the title, and he's got them on the ropes with a bunch of castoffs and retreads. Nobody else I've ever seen play could do this.

 

[Capella]

I still got Wilt as #1, but Lebron has risen to #2.

1. Wilt Chamberlain

2. Lebron James

3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar

4. Michael Jordan

5. Magic Johnson

6. Shaquille O' Neil

7. Larry Bird

8. Kobe Bryant

9. Tim Duncan

10. Bill Russell- Oscar Robertson TIE

I'm not sure what is best about this list. 1. Jordan at 4

2. Kobe over Duncan

3. On a purely opinion list you had a ####### tie.

Yea the tie is my favorite part.

 

[Anarchy99]

The Cavs are up 2-1 in the Finals against the team that destroyed the West this season, and the Cavs are doing this without three of their starters.

Who from the West beats the Cavs in a best-of-seven, especially the version of the Cavs that existed before Irving and Love got hurt?

Cleveland hasn't won the series yet, but as far as opponents from the West go, how about any of the teams that have some size, can rebound, and aren't soft. Jump shooting teams are always at risk of losing games when they don't shoot well, especially in the playoffs.

Then how on earth did GSW manage to win 67 regular season games with historically strong differentials and get through the West playoffs? Luck?

The playoffs are always different than the regular season. Most teams scoring goes down, offenses turn into half court games, the refs let more go, and games are typically much more physical. If people are not aware of this, then they haven't watched a lot of basketball over the years.

As I heard on the radio this week, players that generally are not great defenders and/or not the greatest of hustle players would be inclined to not get back on defense in the regular season but would be more inclined to pick it up in the playoffs.

Clearly GS has not put up the same offensive numbers in the playoffs and are way off that against Cleveland. That is a direct problem with what is going on against the Cavs. Cleveland gets ahead and can isolate LeBron, run down the shot clock, and live with the result of that possession, Either LeBron scores, finds someone open for a last second jump shot, or there are guys back to stop the break. If GS were ahead or had a decent size lead, CLE could not use the same strategy . . . they would have to pick up the pace of play.

1. None of this explains how the Warriors rolled through a decent Pelicans team and a very good Rockets team and was able to recover from a 2-1 hole against the Grizzlies with three straight ###-whuppings. All of that happened in the playoffs.

2. The sentiment about playoff intensity on defense has some validity, but the difference isn't nearly as stark as it used to be. Defenses are far more complex than they were even a few years ago, and guys who slack on defense these days get called out by fans and media almost instantly thanks to social media and unlimited access to game and SportVU footage.

Most of this probably belongs in the NBA thread instead of here, but the point is that what LeBron has his team doing against this Golden State squad is incredible. IMO the 2014-15 Warriors would easily go down as one of the ten best teams in NBA history if they win the title, and he's got them on the ropes with a bunch of castoffs and retreads. Nobody else I've ever seen play could do this.

This year's Warriors finished with several other teams for the 6th highest winning percentage in history. 4 of the 5 teams above them won the title. 3 of the 5 teams tied with them won the title. 3 of the other 4 teams to have an .800 winning percentage in a season won a title. So before this year, 10 of the 14 teams to win 80% or more in the regular season won the title.

I still think GS will win the title this year. Let's see if LeBron & Co. can keep it up.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Which teams from the West would have eliminated CLE in a best-of-seven?

 

[Anarchy99]

Which teams from the West would have eliminated CLE in a best-of-seven?

The teams that would have won four games. This is silly. CLE didn't play anyone other than GS. Let's see if they can beat them before we debate what would have happened in games that were never played.

 

[ShamrockPride]

Which teams from the West would have eliminated CLE in a best-of-seven?

Hard to say with all the damn injuries this year...

 

[Tau837]

The Cavs are up 2-1 in the Finals against the team that destroyed the West this season, and the Cavs are doing this without three of their starters.

Who from the West beats the Cavs in a best-of-seven, especially the version of the Cavs that existed before Irving and Love got hurt?

Spurs

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Which teams from the West would have eliminated CLE in a best-of-seven?

The teams that would have won four games. This is silly. CLE didn't play anyone other than GS. Let's see if they can beat them before we debate what would have happened in games that were never played.

The consensus is the road to the Finals is tougher through the West. I'm trying to figure out how much tougher it actually is. It's a perfectly fair question for the discussion.

 

[Slapdash]

Proof that Tim is full shtick.

This board was much better when the troll stayed in his thread.

 

[JMon348]

Did someone actually place Wilt in the 3rd tier?

And Bird. Under Kobe.

He has Kobe as his avatar, though...so there's that.

 

[Jayrod]

Did someone actually place Wilt in the 3rd tier?

And Bird. Under Kobe.

He has Kobe as his avatar, though...so there's that.

#5 all time. He had 3 MVP's before Magic had one. If his back had held up, he could have been #2. He could do it all and do it all very well.

 

[timschochet]

Alternate top ten:

1. Bill Walton

2. Lew Alcindor

3. Gail Goodrich

4. Reggie Miller

5. Sidney Wicks

6. Don MacLean

7. Keith Wilkes

8. Marques Johnson

9. Pooh Richardson

10. Ed O' Bannon

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Did someone actually place Wilt in the 3rd tier?

And Bird. Under Kobe.

He has Kobe as his avatar, though...so there's that.

#5 all time. He had 3 MVP's before Magic had one. If his back had held up, he could have been #2. He could do it all and do it all very well.

Bird>>Kobe

 

[JMon348]

Did someone actually place Wilt in the 3rd tier?

And Bird. Under Kobe.

He has Kobe as his avatar, though...so there's that.

#5 all time. He had 3 MVP's before Magic had one. If his back had held up, he could have been #2. He could do it all and do it all very well.

IF.

Great player, but his career was cut short due to injuries.

Did someone actually place Wilt in the 3rd tier?

And Bird. Under Kobe.

He has Kobe as his avatar, though...so there's that.

#5 all time. He had 3 MVP's before Magic had one. If his back had held up, he could have been #2. He could do it all and do it all very well.

Bird>>Kobe

Bryant>>>Larry

 

[matuski]

41%, 38%, 35%

Clearly, unless one shoots as well as Curry or Korver from three, they are not a legitimate 3 pt shooter

He's one of the best shooters in the league from the elbows, too.He's played 45 fewer career playoff minutes than Jordan. In the postseason, MJ and LBJ's eFG% and TS% are pretty much equal. LeBron has slight edge on eFG% because he shoots twos so well, TS% is pretty much a dead heat with Jordan's edge shooting ones. Keep in mind that a lot of Jordan's 3PTA volume was when the league moved the three-point line in over a foot for a couple years.

There is no way in hell anyone here is going to take Lebron over MJ or Kobe from midrange to 3's and post it with a straight face.

Jordan career 3-point % - 32.7%

Bryant career 3-point % - 33.4%

James career 3-point % - 34.2%

Notice you didn't say it. Exactly.

 

[[icon]]

The Cavs are up 2-1 in the Finals against the team that destroyed the West this season, and the Cavs are doing this without three of their starters.

Who from the West beats the Cavs in a best-of-seven, especially the version of the Cavs that existed before Irving and Love got hurt?

Update?

 

[[icon]]

I still got Wilt as #1, but Lebron has risen to #2.

1. Wilt Chamberlain

2. Lebron James

3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar

4. Michael Jordan

5. Magic Johnson

6. Shaquille O' Neil

7. Larry Bird

8. Kobe Bryant

9. Tim Duncan

10. Bill Russell- Oscar Robertson TIE

I'm not sure what is best about this list.1. Jordan at 4

2. Kobe over Duncan

3. On a purely opinion list you had a ####### tie.

Yea the tie is my favorite part.

I'm most surprised his white guilt complex let him put Bird on there

 

[igbomb]

41%, 38%, 35%

Clearly, unless one shoots as well as Curry or Korver from three, they are not a legitimate 3 pt shooter

He's one of the best shooters in the league from the elbows, too.He's played 45 fewer career playoff minutes than Jordan. In the postseason, MJ and LBJ's eFG% and TS% are pretty much equal. LeBron has slight edge on eFG% because he shoots twos so well, TS% is pretty much a dead heat with Jordan's edge shooting ones. Keep in mind that a lot of Jordan's 3PTA volume was when the league moved the three-point line in over a foot for a couple years.

There is no way in hell anyone here is going to take Lebron over MJ or Kobe from midrange to 3's and post it with a straight face.

Jordan career 3-point % - 32.7%

Bryant career 3-point % - 33.4%

James career 3-point % - 34.2%

Notice you didn't say it. Exactly.

MJ mid-range was a maniac. Lebron is better long-range and near the hoop.

But I'll take Lebron over Kobe in every single facet of the game.

 

[igbomb]

41%, 38%, 35%

Clearly, unless one shoots as well as Curry or Korver from three, they are not a legitimate 3 pt shooter

He's one of the best shooters in the league from the elbows, too.He's played 45 fewer career playoff minutes than Jordan. In the postseason, MJ and LBJ's eFG% and TS% are pretty much equal. LeBron has slight edge on eFG% because he shoots twos so well, TS% is pretty much a dead heat with Jordan's edge shooting ones. Keep in mind that a lot of Jordan's 3PTA volume was when the league moved the three-point line in over a foot for a couple years.

There is no way in hell anyone here is going to take Lebron over MJ or Kobe from midrange to 3's and post it with a straight face.

Jordan career 3-point % - 32.7%

Bryant career 3-point % - 33.4%

James career 3-point % - 34.2%

Notice you didn't say it. Exactly.

MJ mid-range was a maniac. Lebron is better long-range and near the hoop.

But I'll take Lebron over Kobe in every single facet of the game.

Oh my bad. If I need a free throw I guess I'll put Kobe in.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

The Cavs are up 2-1 in the Finals against the team that destroyed the West this season, and the Cavs are doing this without three of their starters.

Who from the West beats the Cavs in a best-of-seven, especially the version of the Cavs that existed before Irving and Love got hurt?

Update?

CLE has still won two more games in this series than I expected them to without three of their starters.For all the shade tossed on CLE for coming out of the easy conference, only one user offered one possible answer (Spurs), a team knocked out in the first round that CLE wouldn't have faced if the were in the West.

Are you surprised CLE has given GSW a series? I'm stunned. I think LeBron has a really good shot at being named Finals MVP win or lose.

 

[Capella]

I don't think there is any doubt Lebron is the finals MVP. You don't have to give it to a GS player and nobody on that team has come close to earning it.

 

[[icon]]

I don't think there is any doubt Lebron is the finals MVP. You don't have to give it to a GS player and nobody on that team has come close to earning it.

Vegas agrees it's a 2 horse race:

2015 NBA Finals MVP - Odds to Win - All Bets Action (Others on Request) - June 25, 2015 20:35 EDTStephen Curry (Warriors) -150

LeBron James (Cavaliers) +120

Andre Iguodala (Warriors)+650

Draymond Green (Warriors)+5000

Klay Thompson (Warriors)+5000

Timofey Mozgov (Cavaliers)+10000

Matthew Dellavedova (Cavaliers)+20000

Speaks volumes that the next Cavs candidate is 50-1....

 

[Capella]

Betting Steph at -150 is a projection of him blowing up these next 2/3 games. He is nowhere near the MVP at the moment.

 

[[icon]]

Betting Steph at -150 is a projection of him blowing up these next 2/3 games. He is nowhere near the MVP at the moment.

I would concur.

 

[RUSF18]

The Cavs are up 2-1 in the Finals against the team that destroyed the West this season, and the Cavs are doing this without three of their starters.

Who from the West beats the Cavs in a best-of-seven, especially the version of the Cavs that existed before Irving and Love got hurt?

Update?

It's 2-2 now. HTH.

 

[[icon]]

The Cavs are up 2-1 in the Finals against the team that destroyed the West this season, and the Cavs are doing this without three of their starters.

Who from the West beats the Cavs in a best-of-seven, especially the version of the Cavs that existed before Irving and Love got hurt?

Update?

It's 2-2 now.

Thanks.

 

[timschochet]

Betting Steph at -150 is a projection of him blowing up these next 2/3 games. He is nowhere near the MVP at the moment.

He doesn't need to blow up. If GS wins out, he'll be MVP. They should give it to Lebron anyhow, but they never do that anymore.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Those Finals MVP odds sure think LeBron has a good shot at winning MVP without winning the Finals. I doubt the media has the guts to make such an unconventional move, and the story of the little guy from the little college rising up to league MVP and Finals MVP is too much for them to pass up.

But if Curry has another shooting night like he did in Game 2 and GSW wins the series, I don't know what other choice they will have. LeBron is having a better Finals than West had when he won Finals MVP in the losing side.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

The Cavs are up 2-1 in the Finals against the team that destroyed the West this season, and the Cavs are doing this without three of their starters.

Who from the West beats the Cavs in a best-of-seven, especially the version of the Cavs that existed before Irving and Love got hurt?

Update?

It's 2-2 now.

Thanks.

Not that the world needs more insight into your propensity for dildonic behavior, but of all the posts you could have bumped in this thread, why that one?

 

[Capella]

Betting Steph at -150 is a projection of him blowing up these next 2/3 games. He is nowhere near the MVP at the moment.

He doesn't need to blow up. If GS wins out, he'll be MVP.

No, they won't.

 

[RUSF18]

The Cavs are up 2-1 in the Finals against the team that destroyed the West this season, and the Cavs are doing this without three of their starters.

Who from the West beats the Cavs in a best-of-seven, especially the version of the Cavs that existed before Irving and Love got hurt?

Update?

It's 2-2 now.

Thanks.

Not that the world needs more insight into your propensity for dildonic behavior, but of all the posts you could have bumped in this thread, why that one?

And why did you feel the need to edit out my "HTH"?

 

[[icon]]

The Cavs are up 2-1 in the Finals against the team that destroyed the West this season, and the Cavs are doing this without three of their starters.

Who from the West beats the Cavs in a best-of-seven, especially the version of the Cavs that existed before Irving and Love got hurt?

Update?

It's 2-2 now.

Thanks.

Not that the world needs more insight into your propensity for dildonic behavior, but of all the posts you could have bumped in this thread, why that one?

And why did you feel the need to edit

I like editing.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

So now its more important who gets MVP than who wins?

 

[tonydead]

So now its more important who gets MVP than who wins?

I suppose it would be if that's all you got a shot at.

 

[TobiasFunke]

So now its more important who gets MVP than who wins?

Well, we already know who wins. LeBron plays for one of the teams, and the OP made it clear that LeBron will never win a championship due to his lack of a killer instinct and clutch play.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

So now its more important who gets MVP than who wins?

I don't think that anyone is necessarily saying it is more important, but rather commenting on the overall context of the series and LeBron's place in it. Also perhaps trying to point out that you can't blindly use championships as the measure of a great player.

 

[Capella]

So now its more important who gets MVP than who wins?

I think we're actually just having a conversation between games and not saying that at all.

 

[Jayrod]

Did someone actually place Wilt in the 3rd tier?

And Bird. Under Kobe.

He has Kobe as his avatar, though...so there's that.

#5 all time. He had 3 MVP's before Magic had one. If his back had held up, he could have been #2. He could do it all and do it all very well.

IF.

Great player, but his career was cut short due to injuries.

It wasn't cut too short to get three straight MVP's and maintain a GOAT ranking well above Kobe. After 5 years in the league, he had won ROY, 3 MVP's and 2 rings with 2 Finals MVPs. He was still effective for another 2 years after that before his back really started to shut down. Still, limping along for a few years, his career averages are amazing. 24.3 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 6.3 apg and a better than 2:1 assist/turnover ratio.

I'm not saying Bird's #2, as we'll just never know how he would have faired as he got older, but those first 5 years were some of the greatest basketball ever played including a 3 year run of league dominance.

 

[JMon348]

Did someone actually place Wilt in the 3rd tier?

And Bird. Under Kobe.

He has Kobe as his avatar, though...so there's that.

#5 all time. He had 3 MVP's before Magic had one. If his back had held up, he could have been #2. He could do it all and do it all very well.

IF.

Great player, but his career was cut short due to injuries.

It wasn't cut too short to get three straight MVP's and maintain a GOAT ranking well above Kobe. After 5 years in the league, he had won ROY, 3 MVP's and 2 rings with 2 Finals MVPs. He was still effective for another 2 years after that before his back really started to shut down. Still, limping along for a few years, his career averages are amazing. 24.3 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 6.3 apg and a better than 2:1 assist/turnover ratio.

I'm not saying Bird's #2, as we'll just never know how he would have faired as he got older, but those first 5 years were some of the greatest basketball ever played including a 3 year run of league dominance.

Maybe you can argue Bird had a better peak than Kobe.

I think Kobe's had a better career.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Did someone actually place Wilt in the 3rd tier?

And Bird. Under Kobe.

He has Kobe as his avatar, though...so there's that.

#5 all time. He had 3 MVP's before Magic had one. If his back had held up, he could have been #2. He could do it all and do it all very well.

IF.

Great player, but his career was cut short due to injuries.

It wasn't cut too short to get three straight MVP's and maintain a GOAT ranking well above Kobe. After 5 years in the league, he had won ROY, 3 MVP's and 2 rings with 2 Finals MVPs. He was still effective for another 2 years after that before his back really started to shut down. Still, limping along for a few years, his career averages are amazing. 24.3 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 6.3 apg and a better than 2:1 assist/turnover ratio.

I'm not saying Bird's #2, as we'll just never know how he would have faired as he got older, but those first 5 years were some of the greatest basketball ever played including a 3 year run of league dominance.

Bird was an elite player the moment he entered the league. He didn't spend three years as a bench player first.

Bird's last season was his age-35 year. He made over 40% of his three-pointers and over 90% of his free throws, pulling down 9.6 boards per game and dishing out 6.8 assists per game. He was aging gracefully.

On Bird v Kobe, largely what is comes down to is how you feel about those years Kobe led in the league in Usage and didn't guard anybody on teams that went nowhere. There's also an element of how much credit individuals deserve when the organization wins a title.

 

[JMon348]

Larry attended Indiana State university for 3 years.

Kobe did not go to college, instead jumping straight into the NBA.

Bird barely averaged one 3 pointer a game his last year.

Kobe made the All NBA Defensive 1st team an NBA record 9 times (2nd team 3 times)

Bird never made the 1st team in his career (2nd team 3 times)

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Larry attended Indiana State university for 3 years.

Kobe did not go to college, instead jumping straight into the NBA.

Bird barely averaged one 3 pointer a game his last year.

Kobe made the All NBA Defensive 1st team an NBA record 9 times (2nd team 3 times)

Bird never made the 1st team in his career (2nd team 3 times)

In Bird's last season, 2 made 3PT per game led the league in makes. 1.2 made 3PT over a full season would have been in the gray ink.

If anything, Bird is underrated as a 3PT shooter. He was shooting them at a high percentage in high volume at a time when few players were. 3PTA volume didn't spike until the first generation of players who shot threes in high school, club ball, and college joined the NBA.

Analysts like Zach Lowe and John Hollinger have proven over and over that Kobe didn't deserve several of his All-D awards. Not enough tough assignments over enough minutes.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Larry attended Indiana State university for 3 years.

Kobe did not go to college, instead jumping straight into the NBA.

Bird barely averaged one 3 pointer a game his last year.

Kobe made the All NBA Defensive 1st team an NBA record 9 times (2nd team 3 times)

Bird never made the 1st team in his career (2nd team 3 times)

In Bird's last season, 2 made 3PT per game led the league in makes. 1.2 made 3PT over a full season would have been in the gray ink.

If anything, Bird is underrated as a 3PT shooter. He was shooting them at a high percentage in high volume at a time when few players were. 3PTA volume didn't spike until the first generation of players who shot threes in high school, club ball, and college joined the NBA.

Analysts like Zach Lowe and John Hollinger have proven over and over that Kobe didn't deserve several of his All-D awards. Not enough tough assignments over enough minutes.

What do/did people generally think about Bird defensively? You don't hear much about it. Not asking to make a point in any sort of player comparison, genuinely curious.

 

[[icon]]

I wish I loved anything as much as 8ebok24 loves Kobe.

You think he uses an overhand or underhand grip when fapping to his posters?

 

[[icon]]

Larry attended Indiana State university for 3 years.

Kobe did not go to college, instead jumping straight into the NBA.

Bird barely averaged one 3 pointer a game his last year.

Kobe made the All NBA Defensive 1st team an NBA record 9 times (2nd team 3 times)

Bird never made the 1st team in his career (2nd team 3 times)

In Bird's last season, 2 made 3PT per game led the league in makes. 1.2 made 3PT over a full season would have been in the gray ink.

If anything, Bird is underrated as a 3PT shooter. He was shooting them at a high percentage in high volume at a time when few players were. 3PTA volume didn't spike until the first generation of players who shot threes in high school, club ball, and college joined the NBA.

Analysts like Zach Lowe and John Hollinger have proven over and over that Kobe didn't deserve several of his All-D awards. Not enough tough assignments over enough minutes.

What do/did people generally think about Bird defensively? You don't hear much about it. Not asking to make a point in any sort of player comparison, genuinely curious.

Bird is 27th All Time in Defensive Win Shares

 

[JMon348]

Larry attended Indiana State university for 3 years.

Kobe did not go to college, instead jumping straight into the NBA.

Bird barely averaged one 3 pointer a game his last year.

Kobe made the All NBA Defensive 1st team an NBA record 9 times (2nd team 3 times)

Bird never made the 1st team in his career (2nd team 3 times)

In Bird's last season, 2 made 3PT per game led the league in makes. 1.2 made 3PT over a full season would have been in the gray ink.

If anything, Bird is underrated as a 3PT shooter. He was shooting them at a high percentage in high volume at a time when few players were. 3PTA volume didn't spike until the first generation of players who shot threes in high school, club ball, and college joined the NBA.

Analysts like Zach Lowe and John Hollinger have proven over and over that Kobe didn't deserve several of his All-D awards. Not enough tough assignments over enough minutes.

Amazing production his last year, 52 3 pointers in 45 games. Really wish he didn't hurt his back. Would have loved Bird and Magic's last years if they didn't have their careers cut short. Early 90's would have been a lot more interesting with better Laker and Celtic teams.

 

[Jayrod]

Larry attended Indiana State university for 3 years.

Kobe did not go to college, instead jumping straight into the NBA.

Bird barely averaged one 3 pointer a game his last year.

Kobe made the All NBA Defensive 1st team an NBA record 9 times (2nd team 3 times)

Bird never made the 1st team in his career (2nd team 3 times)

In Bird's last season, 2 made 3PT per game led the league in makes. 1.2 made 3PT over a full season would have been in the gray ink.

If anything, Bird is underrated as a 3PT shooter. He was shooting them at a high percentage in high volume at a time when few players were. 3PTA volume didn't spike until the first generation of players who shot threes in high school, club ball, and college joined the NBA.

Analysts like Zach Lowe and John Hollinger have proven over and over that Kobe didn't deserve several of his All-D awards. Not enough tough assignments over enough minutes.

Still. I'll give Kobe the nod over Bird defensively.In every other facet, Bird was greater. Kobe lasted longer, but he was never as good as Birds best years. And a three year run in a league with Magic & Kareem is pretty damn impressive.

Kobe, during his peak, lost out on two MVPs to Steve Nash.

 

[JMon348]

Larry attended Indiana State university for 3 years.

Kobe did not go to college, instead jumping straight into the NBA.

Bird barely averaged one 3 pointer a game his last year.

Kobe made the All NBA Defensive 1st team an NBA record 9 times (2nd team 3 times)

Bird never made the 1st team in his career (2nd team 3 times)

In Bird's last season, 2 made 3PT per game led the league in makes. 1.2 made 3PT over a full season would have been in the gray ink.

If anything, Bird is underrated as a 3PT shooter. He was shooting them at a high percentage in high volume at a time when few players were. 3PTA volume didn't spike until the first generation of players who shot threes in high school, club ball, and college joined the NBA.

Analysts like Zach Lowe and John Hollinger have proven over and over that Kobe didn't deserve several of his All-D awards. Not enough tough assignments over enough minutes.

Still. I'll give Kobe the nod over Bird defensively.In every other facet, Bird was greater. Kobe lasted longer, but he was never as good as Birds best years. And a three year run in a league with Magic & Kareem is pretty damn impressive.

Kobe, during his peak, lost out on two MVPs to Steve Nash.

Analysts like Bill Simmons and Hubie Brown have said over and over that Kobe deserved at least one more MVP, often citing one of Nash's.

 

[Capella]

I think it's fair to say Kobe deserved both one more MVP and about 5 less defensive first teams.