Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (3 Viewers)

[mcintyre1]

It never stops.

http://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/9/24/6838701/john-crawford-grand-jury-beavercreek-ohio-police-shooting

So I have to admit I haven't followed this story, but just reading the reports from the people who actually have viewed the video tapes, the guy picks up a bb gun and begins to walk around the store with it on his shoulder. The police are called in, tell him to put it down, he doesn't promptly comply (instead starts to argue saying something about it being a toy) and is shot.

Seems pretty cut and dry. I would tell you that I would like to go try this experiment at the local Walmart and see what happens, but guess what?? This probably be my last post on the board--because I am guessing the odds are pretty high I would be shot and killed and I am white.

i dont think that was a justified shooting in any sense of the word...he was just standing in a corner speaking to his wife on his phone holding a toy gun . He didnt aim it at the cops ...he dropped it when they started shooting...not sure why he didnt just stay down after they shot and he dove away...he gets up and moved towards the fake gun which at that point he made a stupid move...but before that he did nothing bad enough to warrant being shot.If that was a kid holding a toy gun would they shoot him?

Just to point out, there was only 1 shot fired. He had already been hit before he dropped the gun and went around the corner. I can't explain what he was doing after that, but one would assume that you aren't the most rational person when you're in shock.

 

[Courtjester]

I watched the video several times. The guy is wandering around the store with the gun--sometimes appearing to use it like almost a cane, sometimes on his shoulder, sometimes held in front of him. Now I think where the problem comes in (and I unfortunately have been in too many Walmarts) they are all mostly laid out the same. He started in the sporting goods, went to pets and then as you can see in the one clip almost looks like he is going to shoplift it and walks close enough to the front doors that they open. .He then continues to walk up behind the registers and appears back in the pet department--where he stands and plays with the gun for quite a bit, while talking on the phone.

Now, what I don't know is the time the 911 call is placed--if it is around the time he is by the doors, then you could see how someone could think this guy came in the front door with a gun. I mean it wasn't like this thing was in a box--so that is a reasonable leap and he was no longer in the gun department when he was shot.

I mean you can argue whether the police gave the guy enough time to react. That Vox site has a pretty comprehensive write up on it and they clarified that he was shot before he actually laid the weapon down because a lot of people thought he was shot after he obeyed.

Bottom line is this has nothing to do about race. It has to do about stupidity. The guy engaged in an act that was reckless and it got him killed. This could have happened to any person of any race.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I watched the video several times. The guy is wandering around the store with the gun--sometimes appearing to use it like almost a cane, sometimes on his shoulder, sometimes held in front of him. Now I think where the problem comes in (and I unfortunately have been in too many Walmarts) they are all mostly laid out the same. He started in the sporting goods, went to pets and then as you can see in the one clip almost looks like he is going to shoplift it and walks close enough to the front doors that they open. .He then continues to walk up behind the registers and appears back in the pet department--where he stands and plays with the gun for quite a bit, while talking on the phone.

Now, what I don't know is the time the 911 call is placed--if it is around the time he is by the doors, then you could see how someone could think this guy came in the front door with a gun. I mean it wasn't like this thing was in a box--so that is a reasonable leap and he was no longer in the gun department when he was shot.

I mean you can argue whether the police gave the guy enough time to react. That Vox site has a pretty comprehensive write up on it and they clarified that he was shot before he actually laid the weapon down because a lot of people thought he was shot after he obeyed.

Bottom line is this has nothing to do about race. It has to do about stupidity. The guy engaged in an act that was reckless and it got him killed. This could have happened to any person of any race.

And this is how they do it in that same state when you are white and carrying ...much different approach

KALAMAZOO, MI — Police reports and recordings of a sometimes tense 40-minute encounter with a belligerent, rifle-toting man offers insight into how officers tried to defuse a volatile situation without infringing on his right to openly carry the gun on a city street.

On May 4, Kalamazoo Department of Public Safety officers responded to multiple reports of a man, possibly intoxicated, carrying a rifle along East Cork Street in the city's Milwood neighborhood. Joseph Houseman, 63, was eventually persuaded to hand over the gun, which was returned to him the next day. Police considered but ultimately decided against seeking a misdemeanor charge of brandishing a firearm.

 

[Jim11]

I watched the video several times. The guy is wandering around the store with the gun--sometimes appearing to use it like almost a cane, sometimes on his shoulder, sometimes held in front of him. Now I think where the problem comes in (and I unfortunately have been in too many Walmarts) they are all mostly laid out the same. He started in the sporting goods, went to pets and then as you can see in the one clip almost looks like he is going to shoplift it and walks close enough to the front doors that they open. .He then continues to walk up behind the registers and appears back in the pet department--where he stands and plays with the gun for quite a bit, while talking on the phone.

Now, what I don't know is the time the 911 call is placed--if it is around the time he is by the doors, then you could see how someone could think this guy came in the front door with a gun. I mean it wasn't like this thing was in a box--so that is a reasonable leap and he was no longer in the gun department when he was shot.

I mean you can argue whether the police gave the guy enough time to react. That Vox site has a pretty comprehensive write up on it and they clarified that he was shot before he actually laid the weapon down because a lot of people thought he was shot after he obeyed.

Bottom line is this has nothing to do about race. It has to do about stupidity. The guy engaged in an act that was reckless and it got him killed. This could have happened to any person of any race.

And this is how they do it in that same state when you are white and carrying ...much different approach

KALAMAZOO, MI — Police reports and recordings of a sometimes tense 40-minute encounter with a belligerent, rifle-toting man offers insight into how officers tried to defuse a volatile situation without infringing on his right to openly carry the gun on a city street.

On May 4, Kalamazoo Department of Public Safety officers responded to multiple reports of a man, possibly intoxicated, carrying a rifle along East Cork Street in the city's Milwood neighborhood. Joseph Houseman, 63, was eventually persuaded to hand over the gun, which was returned to him the next day. Police considered but ultimately decided against seeking a misdemeanor charge of brandishing a firearm.

Well, you've convinced me. ALL police EVERYWHERE in the USA are foaming at the mouth for an opportunity to shoot black individuals, while striving mightily to avoid shooting white individuals, regardless of the circumstances.

Since you are obviously an expert in this area, could you let us know how the police handle Asian individuals? Hispanic? Mulatto?

 

[msommer]

And there's Jim doing whatever it is Jim does....

 

[Jackstraw]

I watched the video several times. The guy is wandering around the store with the gun--sometimes appearing to use it like almost a cane, sometimes on his shoulder, sometimes held in front of him. Now I think where the problem comes in (and I unfortunately have been in too many Walmarts) they are all mostly laid out the same. He started in the sporting goods, went to pets and then as you can see in the one clip almost looks like he is going to shoplift it and walks close enough to the front doors that they open. .He then continues to walk up behind the registers and appears back in the pet department--where he stands and plays with the gun for quite a bit, while talking on the phone.

Now, what I don't know is the time the 911 call is placed--if it is around the time he is by the doors, then you could see how someone could think this guy came in the front door with a gun. I mean it wasn't like this thing was in a box--so that is a reasonable leap and he was no longer in the gun department when he was shot.

I mean you can argue whether the police gave the guy enough time to react. That Vox site has a pretty comprehensive write up on it and they clarified that he was shot before he actually laid the weapon down because a lot of people thought he was shot after he obeyed.

Bottom line is this has nothing to do about race. It has to do about stupidity. The guy engaged in an act that was reckless and it got him killed. This could have happened to any person of any race.

And this is how they do it in that same state when you are white and carrying ...much different approachKALAMAZOO, MI — Police reports and recordings of a sometimes tense 40-minute encounter with a belligerent, rifle-toting man offers insight into how officers tried to defuse a volatile situation without infringing on his right to openly carry the gun on a city street.

On May 4, Kalamazoo Department of Public Safety officers responded to multiple reports of a man, possibly intoxicated, carrying a rifle along East Cork Street in the city's Milwood neighborhood. Joseph Houseman, 63, was eventually persuaded to hand over the gun, which was returned to him the next day. Police considered but ultimately decided against seeking a misdemeanor charge of brandishing a firearm.

Well, you've convinced me. ALL police EVERYWHERE in the USA are foaming at the mouth for an opportunity to shoot black individuals, while striving mightily to avoid shooting white individuals, regardless of the circumstances.Since you are obviously an expert in this area, could you let us know how the police handle Asian individuals? Hispanic? Mulatto?

Pretty much.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/yep-we-need-dashcams

 

[BigJohn]

I watched the video several times. The guy is wandering around the store with the gun--sometimes appearing to use it like almost a cane, sometimes on his shoulder, sometimes held in front of him. Now I think where the problem comes in (and I unfortunately have been in too many Walmarts) they are all mostly laid out the same. He started in the sporting goods, went to pets and then as you can see in the one clip almost looks like he is going to shoplift it and walks close enough to the front doors that they open. .He then continues to walk up behind the registers and appears back in the pet department--where he stands and plays with the gun for quite a bit, while talking on the phone.

Now, what I don't know is the time the 911 call is placed--if it is around the time he is by the doors, then you could see how someone could think this guy came in the front door with a gun. I mean it wasn't like this thing was in a box--so that is a reasonable leap and he was no longer in the gun department when he was shot.

I mean you can argue whether the police gave the guy enough time to react. That Vox site has a pretty comprehensive write up on it and they clarified that he was shot before he actually laid the weapon down because a lot of people thought he was shot after he obeyed.

Bottom line is this has nothing to do about race. It has to do about stupidity. The guy engaged in an act that was reckless and it got him killed. This could have happened to any person of any race.

This video syncs the 911 call with probably the best video from the store that I've seen. It's really hard for me to decide what to think here. The cop gives a very loud command to drop the weapon. Crawford was on his phone, so I can understand why he may not have heard. However, there is almost no time between the cops command and the 2 shots being fired. There were 2 kids and their mom(who died of a heart attack) right behind the cops in the aisle. So, the cop has kids in the immediate area, plus was going in unsure if this kid was an active shooter or not.

The doors that you see in the video lead to the garden center, not the front of the store. This video shows the grand jury decision in its entirety. It's a little long, but worth the watch if you are interested at all. It shows his movements in the store, the entire time he was in there.

IMO, this is a tragedy from all perspectives. Th kid surely didn't deserve to die, but it doesn't take much common sense to realize that carrying a gun like this around is bound to lead down dangerous roads. Not to mention, the mom of 4 kids who died from a heart attack.

 

[CBusAlex]

Bottom line is this has nothing to do about race. It has to do about stupidity. The guy engaged in an act that was reckless and it got him killed. This could have happened to any person of any race.

Just to be clear, you're placing the blame on the "reckless and stupid" behavior of buying a toy gun at WalMart?

 

[Gary Coal Man]

It never stops.

http://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/9/24/6838701/john-crawford-grand-jury-beavercreek-ohio-police-shooting

So I have to admit I haven't followed this story, but just reading the reports from the people who actually have viewed the video tapes, the guy picks up a bb gun and begins to walk around the store with it on his shoulder. The police are called in, tell him to put it down, he doesn't promptly comply (instead starts to argue saying something about it being a toy) and is shot.

Seems pretty cut and dry. I would tell you that I would like to go try this experiment at the local Walmart and see what happens, but guess what?? This probably be my last post on the board--because I am guessing the odds are pretty high I would be shot and killed and I am white.

I'm guessing that you're likely wrong about that. The odds, IMO, are considerably lower that you would be shot than if you were black. The person who called the police and the police man who responded likely viewed the black man with a gun as violent and criminal because it's known that black men commit a disproportionate amount of violent crime. Due to black men being the demographic most associated with crime, people are less likely to give a black man the benefit of the doubt that they might extent to other individuals. That association with crime and the stricter scrutiny that comes with it may be unfair, but it will never change until the rate of crime among black men drops precipitously. Black men are the ones most in control of how others view black men.

 

[BigJohn]

Bottom line is this has nothing to do about race. It has to do about stupidity. The guy engaged in an act that was reckless and it got him killed. This could have happened to any person of any race.

Just to be clear, you're placing the blame on the "reckless and stupid" behavior of buying a toy gun at WalMart?

Youre not serious, right?

 

[Gary Coal Man]

At the UN, Obama invokes Ferguson: ‘We welcome the scrutiny of the world’

Washington Post, September 24, 2014

President Obama invoked the unrest in Ferguson, Mo., Wednesday, telling diplomats gathered for the UN General Assembly that in the United States "we have our own racial and ethnic tensions."

“I realize that America’s critics will be quick to point out that at times we too have failed to live up to our ideals; that America has plenty of problems within our own borders. This is true,” Obama said. “In a summer marked by instability in the Middle East and Eastern Europe, I know the world also took notice of the small American city of Ferguson, Missouri – where a young man was killed, and a community was divided. So yes, we have our own racial and ethnic tensions. And like every country, we continually wrestle with how to reconcile the vast changes wrought by globalization and greater diversity with the traditions that we hold dear.”

The nearly 40-minute speech focused primarily on the need for the international community to band together to combat terrorist and militant groups. The remarks were the second time Obama has addressed on a national stage the ongoing fallout of the Aug. 9 shooting of Michael Brown, an unarmed black man, by Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson, who is white. The shooting prompted weeks of protests calling for Wilson’s arrest, with protesters clashing at times with heavily-armed police officers, prompting several international groups and foreign governments to condemn the police action.

In his speech Wednesday, Obama directly addressed those critics. “We welcome the scrutiny of the world – because what you see in America is a country that has steadily worked to address our problems and make our union more perfect,” Obama said. “America is not the same as it was 100 years ago, 50 years ago, or even a decade ago. Because we fight for our ideals, and are willing to criticize ourselves when we fall short.”


Obama’s remarks Wednesday come just one day after Attorney General Eric Holder – who often serves as Obama’s surrogate on issues of race and ethnicity – said the nation was at a “moment of decision” following the Ferguson shooting and called for the country to “reassess” the way law enforcement interacts with minorities.

"Will we yet again turn a blind eye to the hard truths that Ferguson exposed? Or will we finally accept this mandate for open and honest dialogue?" Holder asked on Tuesday during a speech at New York University.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I watched the video several times. The guy is wandering around the store with the gun--sometimes appearing to use it like almost a cane, sometimes on his shoulder, sometimes held in front of him. Now I think where the problem comes in (and I unfortunately have been in too many Walmarts) they are all mostly laid out the same. He started in the sporting goods, went to pets and then as you can see in the one clip almost looks like he is going to shoplift it and walks close enough to the front doors that they open. .He then continues to walk up behind the registers and appears back in the pet department--where he stands and plays with the gun for quite a bit, while talking on the phone.

Now, what I don't know is the time the 911 call is placed--if it is around the time he is by the doors, then you could see how someone could think this guy came in the front door with a gun. I mean it wasn't like this thing was in a box--so that is a reasonable leap and he was no longer in the gun department when he was shot.

I mean you can argue whether the police gave the guy enough time to react. That Vox site has a pretty comprehensive write up on it and they clarified that he was shot before he actually laid the weapon down because a lot of people thought he was shot after he obeyed.

Bottom line is this has nothing to do about race. It has to do about stupidity. The guy engaged in an act that was reckless and it got him killed. This could have happened to any person of any race.

And this is how they do it in that same state when you are white and carrying ...much different approachKALAMAZOO, MI — Police reports and recordings of a sometimes tense 40-minute encounter with a belligerent, rifle-toting man offers insight into how officers tried to defuse a volatile situation without infringing on his right to openly carry the gun on a city street.

On May 4, Kalamazoo Department of Public Safety officers responded to multiple reports of a man, possibly intoxicated, carrying a rifle along East Cork Street in the city's Milwood neighborhood. Joseph Houseman, 63, was eventually persuaded to hand over the gun, which was returned to him the next day. Police considered but ultimately decided against seeking a misdemeanor charge of brandishing a firearm.

Well, you've convinced me. ALL police EVERYWHERE in the USA are foaming at the mouth for an opportunity to shoot black individuals, while striving mightily to avoid shooting white individuals, regardless of the circumstances.Since you are obviously an expert in this area, could you let us know how the police handle Asian individuals? Hispanic? Mulatto?

Pretty much.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/yep-we-need-dashcams

Thats insane.....not unlike the guy in walmart...the cops are so eager to shoot and ask questions later...all i know is that if i ever have a cop say anything to me im just standing completely still ...i dont care what he asks me to do...and im white

 

[kentric]

Based on the 911 call, the person calling in said that Crawford was pointing the gun at people and looked to be loading it. I can see this heightening the tension of responding police officers. When you respond to a call where an individual is point a gun and potentially loading the gun, you're not going in expecting to find someone holding a pellet gun, rather, you're going in expecting to be facing a person who may shoot you.

 

[kentric]

I watched the video several times. The guy is wandering around the store with the gun--sometimes appearing to use it like almost a cane, sometimes on his shoulder, sometimes held in front of him. Now I think where the problem comes in (and I unfortunately have been in too many Walmarts) they are all mostly laid out the same. He started in the sporting goods, went to pets and then as you can see in the one clip almost looks like he is going to shoplift it and walks close enough to the front doors that they open. .He then continues to walk up behind the registers and appears back in the pet department--where he stands and plays with the gun for quite a bit, while talking on the phone.

Now, what I don't know is the time the 911 call is placed--if it is around the time he is by the doors, then you could see how someone could think this guy came in the front door with a gun. I mean it wasn't like this thing was in a box--so that is a reasonable leap and he was no longer in the gun department when he was shot.

I mean you can argue whether the police gave the guy enough time to react. That Vox site has a pretty comprehensive write up on it and they clarified that he was shot before he actually laid the weapon down because a lot of people thought he was shot after he obeyed.

Bottom line is this has nothing to do about race. It has to do about stupidity. The guy engaged in an act that was reckless and it got him killed. This could have happened to any person of any race.

And this is how they do it in that same state when you are white and carrying ...much different approachKALAMAZOO, MI — Police reports and recordings of a sometimes tense 40-minute encounter with a belligerent, rifle-toting man offers insight into how officers tried to defuse a volatile situation without infringing on his right to openly carry the gun on a city street.

On May 4, Kalamazoo Department of Public Safety officers responded to multiple reports of a man, possibly intoxicated, carrying a rifle along East Cork Street in the city's Milwood neighborhood. Joseph Houseman, 63, was eventually persuaded to hand over the gun, which was returned to him the next day. Police considered but ultimately decided against seeking a misdemeanor charge of brandishing a firearm.

Well, you've convinced me. ALL police EVERYWHERE in the USA are foaming at the mouth for an opportunity to shoot black individuals, while striving mightily to avoid shooting white individuals, regardless of the circumstances.Since you are obviously an expert in this area, could you let us know how the police handle Asian individuals? Hispanic? Mulatto?

Pretty much.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/yep-we-need-dashcams

While this is tragic, how does this substantiate that police are on the prowl looking for innocent black men to shoot. The cop lost his position in the force and is being charged with aggravated assault. Poor guy who was shot. All I was doing was reaching in my car for my license like you asked.

eta. I just read that due to this incident, the South Carolina Police Commission has extended new recruits' training by 50%. It will now be a two week program.

 

[kentric]

Can Admin please change the title of the thread to "random instances of black men being shot by racist cops"

 

[Sweet J]

Pretty much.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/yep-we-need-dashcams

That is really an incredible video. I can't believe that played out so quickly. Scary.

 

[Courtjester]

What could end up being a side issue here is why is the bb gun just laying there? I admit I haven't bought a bb gun in years, but every one I have seen is usually in a box or attached by those plastic ties to at least a cardboard backing. Why is it just randomly there and how much will Walmart get sued if it shouldn't have been there?

 

[BigJohn]

What could end up being a side issue here is why is the bb gun just laying there? I admit I haven't bought a bb gun in years, but every one I have seen is usually in a box or attached by those plastic ties to at least a cardboard backing. Why is it just randomly there and how much will Walmart get sued if it shouldn't have been there?

Supposedly it was removed from the box by someone else. So, it is normally packaged, but it was on the shelf this time.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Pretty much.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/yep-we-need-dashcams

That is really an incredible video. I can't believe that played out so quickly. Scary.

This should be its own thread...

 

[spreagle]

Pretty much.http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/yep-we-need-dashcams

That is really an incredible video. I can't believe that played out so quickly. Scary.

This one makes me angry. That poor guy was just scared and he got shot for it. One wrong twitch and every interaction between a black citizen and police could end like this. Perhaps they need to think about limiting such interactions, like pulling someone over for bogus seat belt violations or jaywalking.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I mentioned this in the other thread - but perhaps we need to have police officers work with partners instead of going solo.

Two police officers make it more likely they can collectively control a situation, than a single cop, who could feel overwhelmed and make panicked-driven decisions...

However we move forward, we have to move away from a shoot-first mentality, and towards a containment policy.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Cop shot in Ferguson... Nice place:

http://www.businessinsider.com/cop-shot-in-ferguson-missouri-2014-9

 

[fatness]

In a letter to Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson, the Justice Department said residents had told its investigators that officers policing protest sites on Tuesday in Ferguson were seen wearing "I am Darren Wilson" bracelets.

The letter said the bracelets had "upset and agitated" people and "reinforce the very 'us versus them' mentality that many residents of Ferguson believe exists." The DOJ said it had been assured by officials with the county and state police, which have been brought in to help in Ferguson, that their officers would not wear them.

In a separate letter sent to Jackson earlier this week, the Justice Department said its investigators had observed Ferguson police officers not wearing, or obscuring, their name tags on their uniforms, a violation of the police department's rules.

"The failure to wear name plates conveys a message to community members that, through anonymity, officers may seek to act with impunity," the letter said.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/justice-department-tells-ferguson-police-to-stop-wearing-bracelets.378014/

 

[Christo]

In a letter to Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson, the Justice Department said residents had told its investigators that officers policing protest sites on Tuesday in Ferguson were seen wearing "I am Darren Wilson" bracelets.

The letter said the bracelets had "upset and agitated" people and "reinforce the very 'us versus them' mentality that many residents of Ferguson believe exists." The DOJ said it had been assured by officials with the county and state police, which have been brought in to help in Ferguson, that their officers would not wear them.

In a separate letter sent to Jackson earlier this week, the Justice Department said its investigators had observed Ferguson police officers not wearing, or obscuring, their name tags on their uniforms, a violation of the police department's rules.

"The failure to wear name plates conveys a message to community members that, through anonymity, officers may seek to act with impunity," the letter said.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/justice-department-tells-ferguson-police-to-stop-wearing-bracelets.378014/

Or, they don't want to be targeted off-duty for just doing their jobs.

 

[fatness]

In a letter to Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson, the Justice Department said residents had told its investigators that officers policing protest sites on Tuesday in Ferguson were seen wearing "I am Darren Wilson" bracelets.

The letter said the bracelets had "upset and agitated" people and "reinforce the very 'us versus them' mentality that many residents of Ferguson believe exists." The DOJ said it had been assured by officials with the county and state police, which have been brought in to help in Ferguson, that their officers would not wear them.

In a separate letter sent to Jackson earlier this week, the Justice Department said its investigators had observed Ferguson police officers not wearing, or obscuring, their name tags on their uniforms, a violation of the police department's rules.

"The failure to wear name plates conveys a message to community members that, through anonymity, officers may seek to act with impunity," the letter said.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/justice-department-tells-ferguson-police-to-stop-wearing-bracelets.378014/

Or, they don't want to be targeted off-duty for just doing their jobs.

That's a possible reason, yeah. Another is that they don't want to be reported for misconduct.

I'm not sure how someone can report an officer for misconduct when the officer shows no identification.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

In a letter to Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson, the Justice Department said residents had told its investigators that officers policing protest sites on Tuesday in Ferguson were seen wearing "I am Darren Wilson" bracelets.

The letter said the bracelets had "upset and agitated" people and "reinforce the very 'us versus them' mentality that many residents of Ferguson believe exists." The DOJ said it had been assured by officials with the county and state police, which have been brought in to help in Ferguson, that their officers would not wear them.

In a separate letter sent to Jackson earlier this week, the Justice Department said its investigators had observed Ferguson police officers not wearing, or obscuring, their name tags on their uniforms, a violation of the police department's rules.

"The failure to wear name plates conveys a message to community members that, through anonymity, officers may seek to act with impunity," the letter said.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/justice-department-tells-ferguson-police-to-stop-wearing-bracelets.378014/

Or, they don't want to be targeted off-duty for just doing their jobs.

That's a possible reason, yeah. Another is that they don't want to be reported for misconduct.

I'm not sure how someone can report an officer for misconduct when the officer shows no identification.

the people protesting can just say''it was a white guy in a uniform...they all look the same to me ''

 

[Jules Winnfield]

In a letter to Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson, the Justice Department said residents had told its investigators that officers policing protest sites on Tuesday in Ferguson were seen wearing "I am Darren Wilson" bracelets.

The letter said the bracelets had "upset and agitated" people and "reinforce the very 'us versus them' mentality that many residents of Ferguson believe exists." The DOJ said it had been assured by officials with the county and state police, which have been brought in to help in Ferguson, that their officers would not wear them.

In a separate letter sent to Jackson earlier this week, the Justice Department said its investigators had observed Ferguson police officers not wearing, or obscuring, their name tags on their uniforms, a violation of the police department's rules.

"The failure to wear name plates conveys a message to community members that, through anonymity, officers may seek to act with impunity," the letter said.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/justice-department-tells-ferguson-police-to-stop-wearing-bracelets.378014/

Or, they don't want to be targeted off-duty for just doing their jobs.

Become a cop, that's one of the dangers of the job

 

[Christo]

Or people could just take down their badge numbers.

 

[timschochet]

Lot of straw arguments going on in here. Cops don't think of themselves as racist; their intentions in these situations are almost never bad; and they certainly don't go around looking for young black males to kill.

When I and others use the term "institutionalized racism" we are specifically referring to the perception among most police in this country that black males are threatening and must be regarded with more suspicion (and caution) than just about anyone else. This perception leads to everything that happens of concern: harassment, profiling, brutality, and of course unjustified shootings. It's a real problem, and there are reasons for it that are both historical and happening today. It's not the police's fault that so many young black men do commit felonies at a much higher percentage than the rest of the population. But it is the police's fault for relying on stereotypes as a result of this fact. It's lazy and it's wrong and it leads to bad things.

That being said, simply having racist attitudes does not make one a racist. I firmly believe most police are good people with good intent. We need to find a way to stop the stereotyping and get the cops to treat everyone as individuals without prior conceptions based on skin color.

 

[Todd Andrews]

In a letter to Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson, the Justice Department said residents had told its investigators that officers policing protest sites on Tuesday in Ferguson were seen wearing "I am Darren Wilson" bracelets.

The letter said the bracelets had "upset and agitated" people and "reinforce the very 'us versus them' mentality that many residents of Ferguson believe exists." The DOJ said it had been assured by officials with the county and state police, which have been brought in to help in Ferguson, that their officers would not wear them.

In a separate letter sent to Jackson earlier this week, the Justice Department said its investigators had observed Ferguson police officers not wearing, or obscuring, their name tags on their uniforms, a violation of the police department's rules.

"The failure to wear name plates conveys a message to community members that, through anonymity, officers may seek to act with impunity," the letter said.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/justice-department-tells-ferguson-police-to-stop-wearing-bracelets.378014/

Or, they don't want to be targeted off-duty for just doing their jobs.

Screw them. Tell them to get off the taxpayer dime then.

 

[Todd Andrews]

Or people could just take down their badge numbers.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

In a letter to Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson, the Justice Department said residents had told its investigators that officers policing protest sites on Tuesday in Ferguson were seen wearing "I am Darren Wilson" bracelets.

The letter said the bracelets had "upset and agitated" people and "reinforce the very 'us versus them' mentality that many residents of Ferguson believe exists." The DOJ said it had been assured by officials with the county and state police, which have been brought in to help in Ferguson, that their officers would not wear them.

In a separate letter sent to Jackson earlier this week, the Justice Department said its investigators had observed Ferguson police officers not wearing, or obscuring, their name tags on their uniforms, a violation of the police department's rules.

"The failure to wear name plates conveys a message to community members that, through anonymity, officers may seek to act with impunity," the letter said.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/justice-department-tells-ferguson-police-to-stop-wearing-bracelets.378014/

Or, they don't want to be targeted off-duty for just doing their jobs.

Yep.

It's really hard to believe that this gets is still getting more sickening every day. Everybody seems to really enjoy fanning the flames of hatred. I love reading this thread to see so many of you pretending you know WTF you are talking about when it comes to Ferguson.

 

[fatness]

Or people could just take down their badge numbers.

What's easier to read at night, or at a distance, or while in motion --- a badge number or a name?

 

[Rohn Jambo]

I have been following the pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbjNg2U8m8k

http://www.vox.com/2014/9/28/6856663/hong-kong-democracy-protests-photos

No looting yet...

 

[St. Louis Bob]

One person makes a claim via Twitter, "protesters" decided to try and burn the business down. I love Faraci's pizza so hard, I hope the people responsible catch themselves on fire next time. I'm really so ####### sick of this ####. These people running the pizza joint have ZERO, NOTHING, to do with Michael Brown. Yet a mob of black people decide that they are going to burn the place down, with them inside mind you. Nothing from the media. Nothing from President Obama. Nobody trying to do anything to get order restored. Just keep fanning the flames and let these people continue to get away with hate crimes and attempted murder.

 

[jon_mx]

One person makes a claim via Twitter, "protesters" decided to try and burn the business down. I love Faraci's pizza so hard, I hope the people responsible catch themselves on fire next time. I'm really so ####### sick of this ####. These people running the pizza joint have ZERO, NOTHING, to do with Michael Brown. Yet a mob of black people decide that they are going to burn the place down, with them inside mind you. Nothing from the media. Nothing from President Obama. Nobody trying to do anything to get order restored. Just keep fanning the flames and let these people continue to get away with hate crimes and attempted murder.

I am sure Holder is down there right now investigating the owner of the Pizza place for potential hate crimes.

 

[fantasycurse42]

These people have been protesting for the better part of 7 weeks now

They need to get a ####### life or do something productive!

 

[Jackstraw]

Lot of straw arguments going on in here. Cops don't think of themselves as racist; their intentions in these situations are almost never bad; and they certainly don't go around looking for young black males to kill.

When I and others use the term "institutionalized racism" we are specifically referring to the perception among most police in this country that black males are threatening and must be regarded with more suspicion (and caution) than just about anyone else. This perception leads to everything that happens of concern: harassment, profiling, brutality, and of course unjustified shootings. It's a real problem, and there are reasons for it that are both historical and happening today. It's not the police's fault that so many young black men do commit felonies at a much higher percentage than the rest of the population. But it is the police's fault for relying on stereotypes as a result of this fact. It's lazy and it's wrong and it leads to bad things.

That being said, simply having racist attitudes does not make one a racist. I firmly believe most police are good people with good intent. We need to find a way to stop the stereotyping and get the cops to treat everyone as individuals without prior conceptions based on skin color.

These people have been protesting for the better part of 7 weeks now

They need to get a ####### life or do something productive!

Yeah. If you can't get something done in seven weeks you should always just give up!

 

[Dondante]

These people have been protesting for the better part of 7 weeks now

They need to get a ####### life or do something productive!

Barking up the wrong tree with this group.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Lot of straw arguments going on in here. Cops don't think of themselves as racist; their intentions in these situations are almost never bad; and they certainly don't go around looking for young black males to kill.

When I and others use the term "institutionalized racism" we are specifically referring to the perception among most police in this country that black males are threatening and must be regarded with more suspicion (and caution) than just about anyone else. This perception leads to everything that happens of concern: harassment, profiling, brutality, and of course unjustified shootings. It's a real problem, and there are reasons for it that are both historical and happening today. It's not the police's fault that so many young black men do commit felonies at a much higher percentage than the rest of the population. But it is the police's fault for relying on stereotypes as a result of this fact. It's lazy and it's wrong and it leads to bad things.

That being said, simply having racist attitudes does not make one a racist. I firmly believe most police are good people with good intent. We need to find a way to stop the stereotyping and get the cops to treat everyone as individuals without prior conceptions based on skin color.

These people have been protesting for the better part of 7 weeks now

They need to get a ####### life or do something productive!

Yeah. If you can't get something done in seven weeks you should always just give up!

Yes, because nothing is being done.

See the problem is there is a mob a of people, almost all black, but nowhere close to all black people, causing serious problems. Their demand is simple, stack the deck with the prosecuting attorney of their choice, forgo the entire legal process, and have this cop killed, preferably, or jailed for the rest of his life. Like right now. Until their demand is met, they are going to keep terrorizing random white people because it's obvious to them that all white people are in on the killing of Michael Brown. All white people are racist. They are as bad as the KKK but nobody in the higher ranks of the government will call them out, or do anything, to try and restore order because if they do, they risk being called a racist, an Uncle Tom or a traitor to their skin color. The Mayor, Chief of Police, Governor, State Highway Patrol Chief, all have tried. Nothing.

 

[timschochet]

I don't blame people who join the mob. They're furious, and they have a right to be furious.

But it's tragic because ultimately Bob is right. An angry mob is never going to produce anything worthwhile. All they will end up doing is hurting innocent people and property and creating more anger from all sides.

 

[StrikeS2k]

I don't blame people who join the mob. They're furious, and they have a right to be furious.

But it's tragic because ultimately Bob is right. An angry mob is never going to produce anything worthwhile. All they will end up doing is hurting innocent people and property and creating more anger from all sides.

And perpetuating the same stereotypes that cause the "institutionalized racism" to begin with.

 

[Gary Coal Man]

I don't blame people who join the mob. They're furious, and they have a right to be furious.

But it's tragic because ultimately Bob is right. An angry mob is never going to produce anything worthwhile. All they will end up doing is hurting innocent people and property and creating more anger from all sides.

Based on your own conclusions, it sounds like you should blame people for joining the angry mob.

So there's no better way for people to channel their frustration than looting, rioting, and joining a de facto lynch mob? Maybe people have little reservation about joining this angry mob because, as Bob points out, nobody is holding the mob members accountable for their choice to join the mob (including you).

 

[jonessed]

The whole idea of looting and burning down a random pizza joint because I'm mad at the police is so foreign to me. It's not very logical.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

I don't blame people who join the mob. They're furious, and they have a right to be furious.

But it's tragic because ultimately Bob is right. An angry mob is never going to produce anything worthwhile. All they will end up doing is hurting innocent people and property and creating more anger from all sides.

Oh, they're doing this now.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

Lot of straw arguments going on in here. Cops don't think of themselves as racist; their intentions in these situations are almost never bad; and they certainly don't go around looking for young black males to kill.

When I and others use the term "institutionalized racism" we are specifically referring to the perception among most police in this country that black males are threatening and must be regarded with more suspicion (and caution) than just about anyone else. This perception leads to everything that happens of concern: harassment, profiling, brutality, and of course unjustified shootings. It's a real problem, and there are reasons for it that are both historical and happening today. It's not the police's fault that so many young black men do commit felonies at a much higher percentage than the rest of the population. But it is the police's fault for relying on stereotypes as a result of this fact. It's lazy and it's wrong and it leads to bad things.

That being said, simply having racist attitudes does not make one a racist. I firmly believe most police are good people with good intent. We need to find a way to stop the stereotyping and get the cops to treat everyone as individuals without prior conceptions based on skin color.

These people have been protesting for the better part of 7 weeks now

They need to get a ####### life or do something productive!

Yeah. If you can't get something done in seven weeks you should always just give up!

Yes, because nothing is being done.

See the problem is there is a mob a of people, almost all black, but nowhere close to all black people, causing serious problems. Their demand is simple, stack the deck with the prosecuting attorney of their choice, forgo the entire legal process, and have this cop killed, preferably, or jailed for the rest of his life. Like right now. Until their demand is met, they are going to keep terrorizing random white people because it's obvious to them that all white people are in on the killing of Michael Brown. All white people are racist. They are as bad as the KKK but nobody in the higher ranks of the government will call them out, or do anything, to try and restore order because if they do, they risk being called a racist, an Uncle Tom or a traitor to their skin color. The Mayor, Chief of Police, Governor, State Highway Patrol Chief, all have tried. Nothing.

What you call "stack the deck", others might call something else. This is an opinion piece that's several weeks old but there's some interesting information regarding the track record of prosecuting white cops shooting blacks in Ferguson (maybe this has already been posted).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-ferguson-tragedy-becoming-a-farce/2014/09/12/e52226ca-3a82-11e4-9c9f-ebb47272e40e_story.html

I certainly don't advocate looting or the terrorizing of innocent people but it appears there might be good reason for distrust of the "legal process"

 

[timschochet]

I don't blame people who join the mob. They're furious, and they have a right to be furious.

But it's tragic because ultimately Bob is right. An angry mob is never going to produce anything worthwhile. All they will end up doing is hurting innocent people and property and creating more anger from all sides.

Based on your own conclusions, it sounds like you should blame people for joining the angry mob.

So there's no better way for people to channel their frustration than looting, rioting, and joining a de facto lynch mob? Maybe people have little reservation about joining this angry mob because, as Bob points out, nobody is holding the mob members accountable for their choice to join the mob (including you).

Ultimately, if they commit crimes, they are responsible for those crimes. All I'm suggesting is that it's important to understand the reasons and motivations as to why they take these actions in the first place. The same holds true for gang members, and even for terrorists. I believe there is evil in the world but that very few people are actually evil. Most people who commit bad acts are simply confused, and in this case angry. They perceive the authorities are against them and so they don't understand why the law should be obeyed.

They absolutely need to be held accountable for whatever wrong things they do. But that doesn't stop me from feeling sorry for them, and trying to see if there might be larger scale solutions that will prevent these sorts of things from happening in the first place.

 

[Courtjester]

Even the people that live in Fergusson say the people that are continuing to perpetrate these riots do not represent them. These rioters are thugs, criminals and opportunists--bottom line.

I could maybe buy your argument when the protests first began, but the people that are there now are just criminals looking for an excuse to be a criminal and possible get a free shot in at a cop or a free tv.

 

[fatness]

See the problem is there is a mob a of people, almost all black, but nowhere close to all black people, causing serious problems.

Didn't someone get killed also? Or is that all resolved and not a problem now?

 

[parasaurolophus]

See the problem is there is a mob a of people, almost all black, but nowhere close to all black people, causing serious problems.

Didn't someone get killed also? Or is that all resolved and not a problem now?

The cop wasn't killed, he was only shot in the arm.