I'm guessing, GUESSING, GUESSING, that one of the prior shots made him buckle in such a way that his head went forward.So while Brown was bum rushing Wilson for the distance of 20 or 30 feet was he staring at the ground ?Im trying to figure out how the bullet went into the top of his head
You completely chopped an important part of my statement. The report of the broken eye socket and evidence of a struggle for the gun came from the same source. So if the source was incorrect on the eye socket, then there's reason to doubt his or her claim on there being evidence of a stuggle for the gun. Furthermore, both seemed to be critical points of evidence that folks here were using to justify Wilson's actionsThis:What? If Wilson wasn't the victim of a severe beating and there's no evidence of a struggle for the gun, then his case for shooting Brown seems much weaker than has been stated by people here, including me, who were basing it off of the Fox report.I was addressing your legal analysis not the strength of the evidence--which we really don't have much of at this point.Hence why I said the claim that there's evidence Brown grabbed for his gun was dubious. If I recall correctly, both claims came from the same source.I don't agree with your analysis. If the kid did try to grab the cop's weapon once and then he started charging the cop again that would cause the cop to fear for his life whether or not he had suffered a severe beating. As a matter of fact it would meet that requirement even if the kid had never hit him. Cops are not required to physically fight someone and risk having their gun taken away from them. Especially when that person has already demonstrated his intent to take the weapon.Wilson must show that he feared for his life. So if Wilson wasn't the victim of a severe beating, then his case for killing Brown becomes weaker. Moreover, if the report that Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket was false, then the report's claim that there's evidence of stuggle for the gun is also dubious.What was this guy thinking trying to protect himself against a 290 lb guy...shockerCNN is reporting that Wilson had a swollen face but didn't suffer any fractures.
Wilson must show that he feared for his life. So if Wilson wasn't the victim of a severe beating, then his case for killing Brown becomes weaker.
Wilson doesn't have to show anything actually. Probably like George Z, if he ever goes to trial he'll never testify. Just have his defense team question the witnesses, get a jury dominated by older white people, and then his lawyer argues the state can't prove it (which is probably true). And he'll walk.
Like I said before, that part goes to the strength of the evidence--which we actually haven't seen yet. You are conflating issues.You completely chopped an important part of my statement. The report of the broken eye socket and evidence of a struggle for the gun came from the same source. So if the source was incorrect on the eye socket, then there's reason to doubt his or her claim on there being evidence of a stuggle for the gun. Furthermore, both seemed to be critical points of evidence that folks here were using to justify Wilson's actions
Christo, lmao at you believing someone grabs a cops gun. You won't be honest but you know I'm right. You know cops use this as a defense.I don't agree with your analysis. If the kid did try to grab the cop's weapon once and then he started charging the cop again that would cause the cop to fear for his life whether or not he had suffered a severe beating. As a matter of fact it would meet that requirement even if the kid had never hit him. Cops are not required to physically fight someone and risk having their gun taken away from them. Especially when that person has already demonstrated his intent to take the weapon.Wilson must show that he feared for his life. So if Wilson wasn't the victim of a severe beating, then his case for killing Brown becomes weaker. Moreover, if the report that Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket was false, then the report's claim that there's evidence of stuggle for the gun is also dubious.What was this guy thinking trying to protect himself against a 290 lb guy...shockerCNN is reporting that Wilson had a swollen face but didn't suffer any fractures.
Why is everything about race. It is the worst Schlick on this forum. Why can't you frame arguments based on the evidence and stop assuming that every person of every race behavior is based on race.Wilson doesn't have to show anything actually. Probably like George Z, if he ever goes to trial he'll never testify. Just have his defense team question the witnesses, get a jury dominated by older white people, and then his lawyer argues the state can't prove it (which is probably true). And he'll walk.
So that must mean it never happens.Christo, lmao at you believing someone grabs a cops gun. You won't be honest but you know I'm right. You know cops use this as a defense.I don't agree with your analysis. If the kid did try to grab the cop's weapon once and then he started charging the cop again that would cause the cop to fear for his life whether or not he had suffered a severe beating. As a matter of fact it would meet that requirement even if the kid had never hit him. Cops are not required to physically fight someone and risk having their gun taken away from them. Especially when that person has already demonstrated his intent to take the weapon.Wilson must show that he feared for his life. So if Wilson wasn't the victim of a severe beating, then his case for killing Brown becomes weaker. Moreover, if the report that Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket was false, then the report's claim that there's evidence of stuggle for the gun is also dubious.What was this guy thinking trying to protect himself against a 290 lb guy...shockerCNN is reporting that Wilson had a swollen face but didn't suffer any fractures.
Sometimes in front of spectators...Christo, lmao at you believing someone grabs a cops gun.
I hope this is sarcasm because it does happen when people try and grab a cops gun. Google it.Christo, lmao at you believing someone grabs a cops gun. You won't be honest but you know I'm right. You know cops use this as a defense.I don't agree with your analysis. If the kid did try to grab the cop's weapon once and then he started charging the cop again that would cause the cop to fear for his life whether or not he had suffered a severe beating. As a matter of fact it would meet that requirement even if the kid had never hit him. Cops are not required to physically fight someone and risk having their gun taken away from them. Especially when that person has already demonstrated his intent to take the weapon.Wilson must show that he feared for his life. So if Wilson wasn't the victim of a severe beating, then his case for killing Brown becomes weaker. Moreover, if the report that Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket was false, then the report's claim that there's evidence of stuggle for the gun is also dubious.What was this guy thinking trying to protect himself against a 290 lb guy...shockerCNN is reporting that Wilson had a swollen face but didn't suffer any fractures.
I picture him in black leather bra and panties with a spike collar and cowboy boots.Anyone else picturing Todd Andrews with albino white skin, johnny winters hair walking around in a black panther outfit with a beret? Lolz...
equally unconfirmed at leastYes, presumably it's all from the same source.Still unnamed sources?
What evidence is there on either side that is indisputable? Seems like only evidence is where and how many times he was shot. But both sides are on their way to a defense.Why is everything about race. It is the worst Schlick on this forum. Why can't you frame arguments based on the evidence and stop assuming that every person of every race behavior is based on race.Wilson doesn't have to show anything actually. Probably like George Z, if he ever goes to trial he'll never testify. Just have his defense team question the witnesses, get a jury dominated by older white people, and then his lawyer argues the state can't prove it (which is probably true). And he'll walk.
thats one magic bulletSo while Brown was bum rushing Wilson for the distance of 20 or 30 feet was he staring at the ground ?Im trying to figure out how the bullet went into the top of his head
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzziiipppppI picture him in black leather bra and panties with a spike collar and cowboy boots.Anyone else picturing Todd Andrews with albino white skin, johnny winters hair walking around in a black panther outfit with a beret? Lolz...
Will you look at that. Christo speculating.I don't agree with your analysis. If the kid did try to grab the cop's weapon once and then he started charging the cop again that would cause the cop to fear for his life whether or not he had suffered a severe beating. As a matter of fact it would meet that requirement even if the kid had never hit him. Cops are not required to physically fight someone and risk having their gun taken away from them. Especially when that person has already demonstrated his intent to take the weapon.Wilson must show that he feared for his life. So if Wilson wasn't the victim of a severe beating, then his case for killing Brown becomes weaker. Moreover, if the report that Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket was false, then the report's claim that there's evidence of stuggle for the gun is also dubious.What was this guy thinking trying to protect himself against a 290 lb guy...shockerCNN is reporting that Wilson had a swollen face but didn't suffer any fractures.
Nope no sarcasm. Cops use the grap my weapon defense a lot.Stinger Ray said:I hope this is sarcasm because it does happen when people try and grab a cops gun. Google it.metoo said:Christo, lmao at you believing someone grabs a cops gun. You won't be honest but you know I'm right. You know cops use this as a defense.I don't agree with your analysis. If the kid did try to grab the cop's weapon once and then he started charging the cop again that would cause the cop to fear for his life whether or not he had suffered a severe beating. As a matter of fact it would meet that requirement even if the kid had never hit him. Cops are not required to physically fight someone and risk having their gun taken away from them. Especially when that person has already demonstrated his intent to take the weapon.Wilson must show that he feared for his life. So if Wilson wasn't the victim of a severe beating, then his case for killing Brown becomes weaker. Moreover, if the report that Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket was false, then the report's claim that there's evidence of stuggle for the gun is also dubious.What was this guy thinking trying to protect himself against a 290 lb guy...shockerCNN is reporting that Wilson had a swollen face but didn't suffer any fractures.
And you can't defend against it unless you have have a camera. DNA will not protect you.Nope no sarcasm. Cops use the grap my weapon defense a lot.Stinger Ray said:I hope this is sarcasm because it does happen when people try and grab a cops gun. Google it.metoo said:Christo, lmao at you believing someone grabs a cops gun. You won't be honest but you know I'm right. You know cops use this as a defense.I don't agree with your analysis. If the kid did try to grab the cop's weapon once and then he started charging the cop again that would cause the cop to fear for his life whether or not he had suffered a severe beating. As a matter of fact it would meet that requirement even if the kid had never hit him. Cops are not required to physically fight someone and risk having their gun taken away from them. Especially when that person has already demonstrated his intent to take the weapon.Wilson must show that he feared for his life. So if Wilson wasn't the victim of a severe beating, then his case for killing Brown becomes weaker. Moreover, if the report that Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket was false, then the report's claim that there's evidence of stuggle for the gun is also dubious.What was this guy thinking trying to protect himself against a 290 lb guy...shockerCNN is reporting that Wilson had a swollen face but didn't suffer any fractures.
So it's like a get out of jail free card...And you can't defend against it unless you have have a camera. DNA will not protect you.Nope no sarcasm. Cops use the grap my weapon defense a lot.Stinger Ray said:I hope this is sarcasm because it does happen when people try and grab a cops gun. Google it.metoo said:Christo, lmao at you believing someone grabs a cops gun. You won't be honest but you know I'm right. You know cops use this as a defense.I don't agree with your analysis. If the kid did try to grab the cop's weapon once and then he started charging the cop again that would cause the cop to fear for his life whether or not he had suffered a severe beating. As a matter of fact it would meet that requirement even if the kid had never hit him. Cops are not required to physically fight someone and risk having their gun taken away from them. Especially when that person has already demonstrated his intent to take the weapon.Wilson must show that he feared for his life. So if Wilson wasn't the victim of a severe beating, then his case for killing Brown becomes weaker. Moreover, if the report that Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket was false, then the report's claim that there's evidence of stuggle for the gun is also dubious.What was this guy thinking trying to protect himself against a 290 lb guy...shockerCNN is reporting that Wilson had a swollen face but didn't suffer any fractures.
Sure he was going for her gun? A good lawyer would make the case that he was just trying to get one last piece of ### before he gets sent to Alcatraz for life.Gary Coal Man said:Sometimes in front of spectators...metoo said:Christo, lmao at you believing someone grabs a cops gun.
What am I speculating about?msommer said:Will you look at that. Christo speculating.Not an emoticon in sightI don't agree with your analysis. If the kid did try to grab the cop's weapon once and then he started charging the cop again that would cause the cop to fear for his life whether or not he had suffered a severe beating. As a matter of fact it would meet that requirement even if the kid had never hit him. Cops are not required to physically fight someone and risk having their gun taken away from them. Especially when that person has already demonstrated his intent to take the weapon.Wilson must show that he feared for his life. So if Wilson wasn't the victim of a severe beating, then his case for killing Brown becomes weaker. Moreover, if the report that Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket was false, then the report's claim that there's evidence of stuggle for the gun is also dubious.What was this guy thinking trying to protect himself against a 290 lb guy...shockerCNN is reporting that Wilson had a swollen face but didn't suffer any fractures.
I'm impressed (by financewonk, not Christo)
LOL. Show me an arrest?Gary Coal Man said:Sometimes in front of spectators...metoo said:Christo, lmao at you believing someone grabs a cops gun.
I bet you wish you could go back and not write those first two sentences.Nope no sarcasm. Cops use the grap my weapon defense a lot.Stinger Ray said:I hope this is sarcasm because it does happen when people try and grab a cops gun. Google it.metoo said:Christo, lmao at you believing someone grabs a cops gun. You won't be honest but you know I'm right. You know cops use this as a defense.I don't agree with your analysis. If the kid did try to grab the cop's weapon once and then he started charging the cop again that would cause the cop to fear for his life whether or not he had suffered a severe beating. As a matter of fact it would meet that requirement even if the kid had never hit him. Cops are not required to physically fight someone and risk having their gun taken away from them. Especially when that person has already demonstrated his intent to take the weapon.Wilson must show that he feared for his life. So if Wilson wasn't the victim of a severe beating, then his case for killing Brown becomes weaker. Moreover, if the report that Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket was false, then the report's claim that there's evidence of stuggle for the gun is also dubious.What was this guy thinking trying to protect himself against a 290 lb guy...shockerCNN is reporting that Wilson had a swollen face but didn't suffer any fractures.
WTF are you talking about?Sometimes in front of spectators...Gary Coal Man said:Christo, lmao at you believing someone grabs a cops gun.
GZ did have some pics from shortly after the shooting with scrapes and blood on the back of his head. Maybe they took similar pictures of Wilson but haven't released them yet.Wilson doesn't have to show anything actually. Probably like George Z, if he ever goes to trial he'll never testify. Just have his defense team question the witnesses, get a jury dominated by older white people, and then his lawyer argues the state can't prove it (which is probably true). And he'll walk.
Show me someone being arrested, reaching for a cops gun. It happens a lot. There should be a lot of photos.Sometimes in front of spectators...Christo, lmao at you believing someone grabs a cops gun.
Show me on the street.Sometimes in front of spectators...Christo, lmao at you believing someone grabs a cops gun.
Show me on the steets where a black man grabs a cops gun? I'm tired of this narrative by cops and white folks being it.
http://www.policeone.com/close-quarters-combat/articles/100228-Cases-of-Officers-Killed-by-Their-Own-Guns-Likely-Will-Not-Change-R-I-Policies/Show me on the streets where a black man grabs a cops gun? I'm tired of this narrative by cops and white folks being it.
All right, tell you what jon, if you become Wilson's lawyer, you get a jury filled with blacks and young people. See how that does for you.Why is everything about race. It is the worst Schlick on this forum. Why can't you frame arguments based on the evidence and stop assuming that every person of every race behavior is based on race.Wilson doesn't have to show anything actually. Probably like George Z, if he ever goes to trial he'll never testify. Just have his defense team question the witnesses, get a jury dominated by older white people, and then his lawyer argues the state can't prove it (which is probably true). And he'll walk.
I saw that story. Allegedly the prosecutor has told MSNBC that there was never a report completed or filed.NBC reporting that Ferg PD has told them Wilson did not file an incident report of the shooting!! What???? Are you kidding me?? This is a cover-up!!!
No need to get the truth involved.http://www.policeone.com/close-quarters-combat/articles/100228-Cases-of-Officers-Killed-by-Their-Own-Guns-Likely-Will-Not-Change-R-I-Policies/Show me on the streets where a black man grabs a cops gun? I'm tired of this narrative by cops and white folks being it.
http://lapd.com/news/headlines/lapd_officer_shot_with_own_gun_city_news_service/
http://www.wistv.com/story/18948579/north-charleston-police-officer-shot-search-for-gunman-underway
No need to get the truth involved.http://www.policeone.com/close-quarters-combat/articles/100228-Cases-of-Officers-Killed-by-Their-Own-Guns-Likely-Will-Not-Change-R-I-Policies/Show me on the streets where a black man grabs a cops gun? I'm tired of this narrative by cops and white folks being it.
http://lapd.com/news/headlines/lapd_officer_shot_with_own_gun_city_news_service/
http://www.wistv.com/story/18948579/north-charleston-police-officer-shot-search-for-gunman-underway
http://www.live5news.com/story/23911537/police-sergeant-fired-after-lying-about-self-inflicted-shooting
Do you really believe that not one African American person has tried to grab the gun of a police officer?No need to get the truth involved.http://www.live5news.com/story/23911537/police-sergeant-fired-after-lying-about-self-inflicted-shootinghttp://www.policeone.com/close-quarters-combat/articles/100228-Cases-of-Officers-Killed-by-Their-Own-Guns-Likely-Will-Not-Change-R-I-Policies/http://lapd.com/news/headlines/lapd_officer_shot_with_own_gun_city_news_service/http://www.wistv.com/story/18948579/north-charleston-police-officer-shot-search-for-gunman-underwayShow me on the streets where a black man grabs a cops gun? I'm tired of this narrative by cops and white folks being it.
Because all he wanted to do is shoot a guy in the back running away from him without any provocation.So... anyone want to speculate as to why the cop never called EMS, waited to call in the shooting, and never filed a report?
will forensics be able to determine the distance between them?That depends. There may be blood spatter where sots hit and blood trails from those points. The blood patterns are different from a hit and then a continuing bleed out. If the Officer had a semiautomatic gun, a likelihood, there will be ejected shell casings. Now ejection is not uniform, and shell casings do bounce irregularly, but we can get some indication of officer position and movement from these. Also, related to stippling is gun shot residue, GSR. Relative amounts of residue deposit are related to distance, and of course potentially repeated exposure, but yes, forensics can help enlighten the matter, while still not being 100% determinative." post="17126784" timestamp="1408629425"]
very well said.I wonder whether a young person who has maybe had it in his head to try to disarm a cop, finding himself fairly close to the cop might try to rush at that much smaller cop if he saw that cop take his eyes off of him and look at the co-suspect? At 30 feet away, a mere 10 yards, a distance a world class athlete can cover in a second, that young man might be tempted, after all young men can overestimate their abilities and often feel impregnable. Now if that distance was only 20 feet, having been misestimated as folks often do, might the young man have been more tempted? I don't know, but in that instance the young man would not be far off from having estimated correctly. A persons reaction time is slow enough to allow most of us to cover around 10 to 12 feet before they can respond. Of course if the response was shooting and backing away, thus creating more space and time that would be a bad decision, but one a young man might be foolish enough to make. Hell, I've seen young people make lots of foolish life or death choices behind the wheel of a car or on bikes or skateboards in traffic.
For the record I am still awaiting the autopsy and the forensics. I am not advocating the above position, I am recognizing a possibility, and I understand that possibility would, at this time, be nothing more than wild speculation not remotely based on any information thus offered or remotely confirmed.
Forensics will be interesting.
Thanks,bro!Do you really believe that not one African American person has tried to grab the gun of a police officer?No need to get the truth involved.http://www.live5news.com/story/23911537/police-sergeant-fired-after-lying-about-self-inflicted-shootinghttp://www.policeone.com/close-quarters-combat/articles/100228-Cases-of-Officers-Killed-by-Their-Own-Guns-Likely-Will-Not-Change-R-I-Policies/http://lapd.com/news/headlines/lapd_officer_shot_with_own_gun_city_news_service/http://www.wistv.com/story/18948579/north-charleston-police-officer-shot-search-for-gunman-underwayShow me on the streets where a black man grabs a cops gun? I'm tired of this narrative by cops and white folks being it.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/08/21/prosecutors-have-not-spoken-to-darren-wilson-yet/A family friend of Wilson’s told The Washington Post that Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/police-officer-who-shot-michael-brown-suffered-fractured-eye-socket-friend-says/2014/08/21/177524ea-293c-11e4-958c-268a320a60ce_story.html?hpid=z1a family friend of the officer who fatally shot Brown came forward to allege new details of the incident, saying that the officer suffered a fracture to his eye socket in a scuffle with the unarmed teenager before opening fire.
Fox NewsDarren Wilson, the Ferguson, Mo., police officer whose fatal shooting of Michael Brown touched off more than a week of demonstrations, suffered severe facial injuries and was nearly beaten unconscious by Brown moments before firing his gun, a source close to the department's top brass told FoxNews.com.
“The Assistant (Police) Chief took him to the hospital, his face all swollen on one side,” said the insider. “He was beaten very severely.”
Ann CoulterThis week, we saw the X-ray of Officer Wilson's fractured eye socket.
allenwestrepublicBREAKING REPORT: Officer Darren Wilson Suffered “Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket” During Mike Brown Attack
http://www.salon.com/2014/08/21/cnn_refutes_claim_that_officer_darren_wilson_had_a_fractured_eye_socket/CNN’s Don Lemon has reported that Wilson did not, in fact, have a broken eye socket,
I'll speculate. He lost his ####, no excuse. If you're involved in something like this, you better make damn sure you cross the Ts and dot the Is. If other officers were on the scene shortly after, wouldn't/couldn't they assist with the report?So... anyone want to speculate as to why the cop never called EMS, waited to call in the shooting, and never filed a report?
You may be the biggest racist here.Thanks,bro!Do you really believe that not one African American person has tried to grab the gun of a police officer?No need to get the truth involved.http://www.live5news.com/story/23911537/police-sergeant-fired-after-lying-about-self-inflicted-shootinghttp://www.policeone.com/close-quarters-combat/articles/100228-Cases-of-Officers-Killed-by-Their-Own-Guns-Likely-Will-Not-Change-R-I-Policies/http://lapd.com/news/headlines/lapd_officer_shot_with_own_gun_city_news_service/http://www.wistv.com/story/18948579/north-charleston-police-officer-shot-search-for-gunman-underwayShow me on the streets where a black man grabs a cops gun? I'm tired of this narrative by cops and white folks being it.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/michael-brown-shooting-why-ferguson-police-never-filed-incident-report-n186431Critics and news media outlets have questioned why Ferguson police released an incident report from a robbery in which Brown was a suspect, as well as security video showing the stick-up, but not the report on the shooting of the unarmed 18-year-old a short time later by Officer Darren Wilson.
The reason, according to the office of St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Robert P. McCulloch, is that it doesn’t exist.
The St. Louis County police department presumably did file an incident report, but any such documents will not be made public until a grand jury investigating the officer-involved shooting concludes its investigation, according to officials from the office who briefed NBC News on the case.