Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (1 Viewer)

[Sweet J]

So the riots weren't about hands up don't shoot but instead speeding tickets?

The riots grew out of the protests and the police response to them. The protests were about all of it- the incident, how the incident fit into the larger framework of discrimination and abuse of power in that community, the horrifying police response to the initial protests and the media coverage of them, the way people like yourself respond to this complex dynamic and justifiable anger by reducing it to pithy nonsense ... it goes on and on. These are complicated problems.

Oh come on, no they weren't. They were about the lie Johnson told that many others repeated that Wilson just blew him away in cold blood for no reason all the while Brown was yelling "DON'T SHOOT!!" with his hands high in the air.

Initially, maybe. But the reason they spread like wildfire and people started traveling to join the protests and it became a national news story is because it fit a larger pattern of discrimination and abuse of power and lack of accountability in the city and elsewhere. And in any event, what does it matter? The protests and outrage have unearthed something truly terrible that needs to be fixed.

And frankly, can you even blame the people of Ferguson for reaching the decision they did? Have you read the DOJ report? If not, let John Oliver sum it up for you.

If law enforcement and the city government acted that ways towards your race or religion or whatever, you would assume the worst, and rightfully so. You'd be angry as hell, and rightfully so. And saying "Darren Wilson might actually have acted reasonably!" does nothing to change that. He's a part of an institution where racism is rampant and he shot an unarmed black kid. You expect those people to keep their cool and not rush to judgment in that context? Look how upset you got about people "verbally abusing" you ... and those are unarmed civilians. Blacks in Ferguson and elsewhere in the cityare being treated like garbage by armed officers of the law and other government officials.

If you can't maintain a level-headed attitude towards unarmed civilians who yell at you, how can you expect people to maintain a level-headed attitude towards armed government officials who are supposed to be protecting them, but instead are harassing and arresting them for completely innocent actions like driving or even just sitting in a parked car, or comparing them to dogs because dogs are also "unemployed, lazy, can't speak English and have no idea who their daddies are"?

I think it's just funny what people and the press focus on.

We've had a guy sat on and killed by a cop here in NO (outside a bar), we have had the cops take people off and burn them in their cars (Glover), shoot people including a mentally handicapped kid during a crisis with no reason (Danziger Bridge), we've had a kid shot while snooping around a house, we've had a police force taken over by the feds, years ago we had a crooked cop shoot up a Viet restaurant and kill everyone inside and then later they found bodies under her (yes, her) house, and there's corruption a mile deep to boot .... no one gives a sht outside NO, nope, not nationally.

And btw New Orleans is illustrative, because at least we have had black mayors and police chiefs and majority black councils where at least people can say they were represented, so yes you can blame the people of Ferguson because they are what 60-70% black and those folks can't muster more than a 10% turnout for elections? They have a white council and a white mayor and white police chief.... and they don't vote. There is ZERO excuse for that. Show up and exercise your rights in the ballot box. People have died for that, in wars and on bridges and not just in Selma.

Election don't change anything. Whether blacks, whites, browns, demoblicans or republicrats are elected, it doesn't change the fundamental nature of the state and its costumed enforcers.

It may not change the fact that elected officials suck, but I absolutely think it will change the manner in which they suck.

 

[CowboysFromHell]

It may not change the fact that elected officials suck, but I absolutely think it will change the manner in which they suck.

Can I use that one, or is it trademarked?

 

[Jack White]

So the riots weren't about hands up don't shoot but instead speeding tickets?

The riots grew out of the protests and the police response to them. The protests were about all of it- the incident, how the incident fit into the larger framework of discrimination and abuse of power in that community, the horrifying police response to the initial protests and the media coverage of them, the way people like yourself respond to this complex dynamic and justifiable anger by reducing it to pithy nonsense ... it goes on and on. These are complicated problems.

Oh come on, no they weren't. They were about the lie Johnson told that many others repeated that Wilson just blew him away in cold blood for no reason all the while Brown was yelling "DON'T SHOOT!!" with his hands high in the air.

Initially, maybe. But the reason they spread like wildfire and people started traveling to join the protests and it became a national news story is because it fit a larger pattern of discrimination and abuse of power and lack of accountability in the city and elsewhere. And in any event, what does it matter? The protests and outrage have unearthed something truly terrible that needs to be fixed.

And frankly, can you even blame the people of Ferguson for reaching the decision they did? Have you read the DOJ report? If not, let John Oliver sum it up for you.

If law enforcement and the city government acted that ways towards your race or religion or whatever, you would assume the worst, and rightfully so. You'd be angry as hell, and rightfully so. And saying "Darren Wilson might actually have acted reasonably!" does nothing to change that. He's a part of an institution where racism is rampant and he shot an unarmed black kid. You expect those people to keep their cool and not rush to judgment in that context? Look how upset you got about people "verbally abusing" you ... and those are unarmed civilians. Blacks in Ferguson and elsewhere in the cityare being treated like garbage by armed officers of the law and other government officials.

If you can't maintain a level-headed attitude towards unarmed civilians who yell at you, how can you expect people to maintain a level-headed attitude towards armed government officials who are supposed to be protecting them, but instead are harassing and arresting them for completely innocent actions like driving or even just sitting in a parked car, or comparing them to dogs because dogs are also "unemployed, lazy, can't speak English and have no idea who their daddies are"?

I think it's just funny what people and the press focus on.

We've had a guy sat on and killed by a cop here in NO (outside a bar), we have had the cops take people off and burn them in their cars (Glover), shoot people including a mentally handicapped kid during a crisis with no reason (Danziger Bridge), we've had a kid shot while snooping around a house, we've had a police force taken over by the feds, years ago we had a crooked cop shoot up a Viet restaurant and kill everyone inside and then later they found bodies under her (yes, her) house, and there's corruption a mile deep to boot .... no one gives a sht outside NO, nope, not nationally.

And btw New Orleans is illustrative, because at least we have had black mayors and police chiefs and majority black councils where at least people can say they were represented, so yes you can blame the people of Ferguson because they are what 60-70% black and those folks can't muster more than a 10% turnout for elections? They have a white council and a white mayor and white police chief.... and they don't vote. There is ZERO excuse for that. Show up and exercise your rights in the ballot box. People have died for that, in wars and on bridges and not just in Selma.

Election don't change anything. Whether blacks, whites, browns, demoblicans or republicrats are elected, it doesn't change the fundamental nature of the state and its costumed enforcers.

It may not change the fact that elected officials suck, but I absolutely think it will change the manner in which they suck.

If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.

 

[Sweet J]

It may not change the fact that elected officials suck, but I absolutely think it will change the manner in which they suck.

Can I use that one, or is it trademarked?

LOL. It's all yours.

 

[Clifford]

This is still a thing?

I know, right? Can't we just put this pesky little "racist/power-abusing law enforcement" thing behind us? What's the big deal, people?

Because not only there is no evidence that this is what happened, there is plenty of evidence, and eyewitnesses that prove it wasn't a "racist/power-abusing law enforcement" thing much to the disappointment of Holder who so badly wanted it to be?

There is a ton of evidence that it has happened and continues to happen in Ferguson and elsewhere. Dismissing the outrage demonstrated at the Ferguson protests and around the country as being solely about Michael Brown is part of the problem- it's silly and counterproductive and people need to stop doing it IMO. It would be like if we decided not to worry about racism in public accommodations in the 50s and 60s because it turned out that that Rosa Parks actually didn't want to sit there anyway. This problem outgrew the facts of the Michael Brown incident months ago; sometimes it seems to me that the people who insist otherwise are doing so because they want to pretend the larger problem doesn't exist.

BTW there is evidence that it happened in the Michael Brown case, too. There's just other evidence that contradicts it.

Without the systemic targeting and persecution of poor and minorities at the hands of the police, Micheal Brown incidient would not have blown up the way it did.

This has been a problem for a looooong time and it deserves the attention of the DOJ.

A man in my state, Indian, was simply walking down his son's street, was stopped because a neighbor called in a "suspicious-looking (read Brown) man." Officers stopped him, arrested him for nothing other than walking down the street, slammed him to the ground, and this man is now paralyzed.

There is a serious problem all across the country where cops feel they can place anyone in cuffs for any reason they choose, and undertake any means they feel like once people are in cuffs. They do not understand the law, and do not respect it. Many, many officers feel that whatever they say is law and are immune to any consequences of actions undertaken while wearing the uniform. That is a HUGE problem.

It needs to be addressed or all of our rights are ####ed. Right now, a cop can do anything to anyone and there is very little recourse to the citizen. I would guess about half or more of police departments are as bad as Ferguson and in need of reorganization just as much.

 

[Clifford]

Wow, surprised that no one has mentioned that DOJ vindicated Wilson. Hands up don't shoot was proven to be bull ####.

Maybe because he wasn't vindicated. The DOJ declined to bring charges, that is not a vindication.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/04/politics/ferguson-darren-wilson-justice-department-report/

In a report released Wednesday, prosecutors said that "Wilson's actions do not constitute prosecutable violations" of federal civil rights law.

"There is no evidence upon which prosecutors can rely to disprove Wilson's anyone's stated subjective belief that he feared for his safety," the Justice Department report said.

Fixed. Which is why subjective belief should never be the sole determining factor. How far away was the victim/perp when shot? What actions had he taken before? Did the shooter have reasonable evidence to believe victim could attack from a distance?

FWIW from evidence I think Wilson's actions were justified. But not because of what he believed, because of ballistic evidence, his testimony of events, and the fact that his testimony was corroborated by some of the eye witnesses.

 

[Raider Nation]

FERGUSON • Two police officers were hit by gunfire early Thursday outside the Ferguson police department.The shots were fired as police were confronting protesters who had gathered outside the police station.

 

[Widbil83]

Honestly surprised this hasn't happened sooner there with the frenzy the media, Sharpton and Holder have worked the protesters into. What a mess.

 

[avoiding injuries]

And just like that, public support swings back to the police there.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

As well it should. We can talk all we want about isolated incidents of perceived police injustices, but these officers work with the worst of the worst every day; Liars, cheats, rapist, child molesters , wife beaters, drug addicts, drug pushers, armed robbers, and killers. What we should be is amazed, that with the hundreds of thousands of police officers and the millions of confrontations they have that there are so few incidents. We are quick to thank the armed forces for their service, why not the guys that are on the frontline at home protecting us.

 

[Godsbrother]

If I were a white cop on the Ferguson police force I would quit immediately. Whatever they are getting paid is not enough.

 

[PinkydaPimp]

As well it should. We can talk all we want about isolated incidents of perceived police injustices, but these officers work with the worst of the worst every day; Liars, cheats, rapist, child molesters , wife beaters, drug addicts, drug pushers, armed robbers, and killers. What we should be is amazed, that with the hundreds of thousands of police officers and the millions of confrontations they have that there are so few incidents. We are quick to thank the armed forces for their service, why not the guys that are on the frontline at home protecting us.

Maybe if the officers looked at their practices and did not incite violence themselves or harass the communities they are policing it would help reduce violence, not increase it.

 

[parasaurolophus]

As well it should. We can talk all we want about isolated incidents of perceived police injustices, but these officers work with the worst of the worst every day; Liars, cheats, rapist, child molesters , wife beaters, drug addicts, drug pushers, armed robbers, and killers. What we should be is amazed, that with the hundreds of thousands of police officers and the millions of confrontations they have that there are so few incidents. We are quick to thank the armed forces for their service, why not the guys that are on the frontline at home protecting us.

That's because the armed forces don't affect them. People complain about the police when they get a ticket for doing 15 over. Think about how much hatred there would be if police actually enforced every law. You would hear cries daily about poor taxes and persecution.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

As well it should. We can talk all we want about isolated incidents of perceived police injustices, but these officers work with the worst of the worst every day; Liars, cheats, rapist, child molesters , wife beaters, drug addicts, drug pushers, armed robbers, and killers. What we should be is amazed, that with the hundreds of thousands of police officers and the millions of confrontations they have that there are so few incidents. We are quick to thank the armed forces for their service, why not the guys that are on the frontline at home protecting us.

Maybe if the officers looked at their practices and did not incite violence themselves or harass the communities they are policing it would help reduce violence, not increase it.

Bull....#### excuse for criminal behavior.

 

[PinkydaPimp]

As well it should. We can talk all we want about isolated incidents of perceived police injustices, but these officers work with the worst of the worst every day; Liars, cheats, rapist, child molesters , wife beaters, drug addicts, drug pushers, armed robbers, and killers. What we should be is amazed, that with the hundreds of thousands of police officers and the millions of confrontations they have that there are so few incidents. We are quick to thank the armed forces for their service, why not the guys that are on the frontline at home protecting us.

Maybe if the officers looked at their practices and did not incite violence themselves or harass the communities they are policing it would help reduce violence, not increase it.

Bull....#### excuse for criminal behavior.

When a child acts out in school, don't they in most cases look into whats going on at home? whats causing this behavior? This is no different. Until we look toward the root of these issues we will never move forward. DOJ did that and its no surprise that things are so bad there. It doesnt excuse criminal behavior. However, you arent going to make things better there unless the underlying issues are fixed. However, part of me thinks people like yourself would rather things arent fixed!

 

[Rayderr]

As well it should. We can talk all we want about isolated incidents of perceived police injustices, but these officers work with the worst of the worst every day; Liars, cheats, rapist, child molesters , wife beaters, drug addicts, drug pushers, armed robbers, and killers. What we should be is amazed, that with the hundreds of thousands of police officers and the millions of confrontations they have that there are so few incidents. We are quick to thank the armed forces for their service, why not the guys that are on the frontline at home protecting us.

Maybe if the officers looked at their practices and did not incite violence themselves or harass the communities they are policing it would help reduce violence, not increase it.

Bull....#### excuse for criminal behavior.

When a child acts out in school, don't they in most cases look into whats going on at home? whats causing this behavior? This is no different. Until we look toward the root of these issues we will never move forward. DOJ did that and its no surprise that things are so bad there. It doesnt excuse criminal behavior. However, you arent going to make things better there unless the underlying issues are fixed. However, part of me things people like yourself would rather things arent fixed!

So the people of Ferguson are all just a bunch of children?

 

[PinkydaPimp]

As well it should. We can talk all we want about isolated incidents of perceived police injustices, but these officers work with the worst of the worst every day; Liars, cheats, rapist, child molesters , wife beaters, drug addicts, drug pushers, armed robbers, and killers. What we should be is amazed, that with the hundreds of thousands of police officers and the millions of confrontations they have that there are so few incidents. We are quick to thank the armed forces for their service, why not the guys that are on the frontline at home protecting us.

Maybe if the officers looked at their practices and did not incite violence themselves or harass the communities they are policing it would help reduce violence, not increase it.

Bull....#### excuse for criminal behavior.

When a child acts out in school, don't they in most cases look into whats going on at home? whats causing this behavior? This is no different. Until we look toward the root of these issues we will never move forward. DOJ did that and its no surprise that things are so bad there. It doesnt excuse criminal behavior. However, you arent going to make things better there unless the underlying issues are fixed. However, part of me things people like yourself would rather things arent fixed!

So the people of Ferguson are all just a bunch of children?

if thats what you got from what i wrote then

 

[Rayderr]

As well it should. We can talk all we want about isolated incidents of perceived police injustices, but these officers work with the worst of the worst every day; Liars, cheats, rapist, child molesters , wife beaters, drug addicts, drug pushers, armed robbers, and killers. What we should be is amazed, that with the hundreds of thousands of police officers and the millions of confrontations they have that there are so few incidents. We are quick to thank the armed forces for their service, why not the guys that are on the frontline at home protecting us.

Maybe if the officers looked at their practices and did not incite violence themselves or harass the communities they are policing it would help reduce violence, not increase it.

Bull....#### excuse for criminal behavior.

When a child acts out in school, don't they in most cases look into whats going on at home? whats causing this behavior? This is no different. Until we look toward the root of these issues we will never move forward. DOJ did that and its no surprise that things are so bad there. It doesnt excuse criminal behavior. However, you arent going to make things better there unless the underlying issues are fixed. However, part of me things people like yourself would rather things arent fixed!

So the people of Ferguson are all just a bunch of children?

if thats what you got from what i wrote then

You're the one that made the comparison, chief.

 

[Jayrod]

How about we flip it? What kind of people live in Ferguson and how does that effect the police force? Who looks at their society and points a finger?

This isn't a child/parent relationship. It isn't a customer/vendor relationship. It isn't a co-worker relationship. This is a unique relationship and no analogy can do it justice.

 

[ffldrew]

As well it should. We can talk all we want about isolated incidents of perceived police injustices, but these officers work with the worst of the worst every day; Liars, cheats, rapist, child molesters , wife beaters, drug addicts, drug pushers, armed robbers, and killers. What we should be is amazed, that with the hundreds of thousands of police officers and the millions of confrontations they have that there are so few incidents. We are quick to thank the armed forces for their service, why not the guys that are on the frontline at home protecting us.

Don't forget jaywalkers

 

[TobiasFunke]

How about we flip it? What kind of people live in Ferguson and how does that effect the police force? Who looks at their society and points a finger?

This isn't a child/parent relationship. It isn't a customer/vendor relationship. It isn't a co-worker relationship. This is a unique relationship and no analogy can do it justice.

Sure, flip it if you like. What kind of people live in Ferguson? And why are they different from the kind of people who live elsewhere?

 

[PinkydaPimp]

How about we flip it? What kind of people live in Ferguson and how does that effect the police force? Who looks at their society and points a finger?

This isn't a child/parent relationship. It isn't a customer/vendor relationship. It isn't a co-worker relationship. This is a unique relationship and no analogy can do it justice.

Understood, but the point of the analogy was to say that we still need to look at the root causes. People seem more focused on pointing fingers then trying to find ways to prevent these things from happening over and over. But the questions you are asking are also relevant and will help in getting to the root of these issues.

 

[BigJohn]

So, cops are now responsible for raising kids?

 

[HellToupee]

If I were a white cop on the Ferguson police force I would quit immediately. Whatever they are getting paid is not enough.

the magic word would be STRESS. I dont think it would be hard to go out on paid leave under stress

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

FERGUSON • Two police officers were hit by gunfire early Thursday outside the Ferguson police department.The shots were fired as police were confronting protesters who had gathered outside the police station.

People have completely lost their minds there.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/12/us/ferguson-protests/index.html

Several protesters said the shooter was not near the crowd of demonstrators, but was up on a grassy hill.

The gunman was "no less than 100 feet" away, protester Kayla Reed said.

But the protest Wednesday night appeared to be the largest since November, when a grand jury decided not to indict Wilson for Brown's death. The latest protest suggests anger in Ferguson is far from over, even after the police chief's departure.

"We aren't satisfied with this," Reed said of Jackson's resignation. "It's a step in the right direction, but it's not what total justice looks like in Ferguson."

Total justice, she said, would include the departure of the mayor. McKesson said justice would also include criminal charges against Wilson -- which a grand jury has already to decided against.

Honestly at what point do the AG and the DOJ try to calm things down there? Basically you have a populace that has been told an 18 year old was gunned down for no reason and that they have no rights. This is getting close to revolt. It would be nice to hear Holder tell, them, sorry, Wilson is totally innocent, that's what his own DOJ says. It's hard to believe this is going on.

 

[Rayderr]

FERGUSON • Two police officers were hit by gunfire early Thursday outside the Ferguson police department.The shots were fired as police were confronting protesters who had gathered outside the police station.

People have completely lost their minds there.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/12/us/ferguson-protests/index.html

Several protesters said the shooter was not near the crowd of demonstrators, but was up on a grassy hill.

The gunman was "no less than 100 feet" away, protester Kayla Reed said.

But the protest Wednesday night appeared to be the largest since November, when a grand jury decided not to indict Wilson for Brown's death. The latest protest suggests anger in Ferguson is far from over, even after the police chief's departure.

"We aren't satisfied with this," Reed said of Jackson's resignation. "It's a step in the right direction, but it's not what total justice looks like in Ferguson."

Total justice, she said, would include the departure of the mayor. McKesson said justice would also include criminal charges against Wilson -- which a grand jury has already to decided against.

The Honestly at what point do the AG and the DOJ try to calm things down there? Basically you have a populace that has been told an 18 year old was gunned down for no reason and that they have no rights. This is getting close to revolt. It would be nice to hear Holder tell, them, sorry, Wilson is totally innocent, that's what his own DOJ says. It's hard to believe this is going on.

Their attempts to "calm things down" are what's lead to things like this.

 

[kentric]

FERGUSON • Two police officers were hit by gunfire early Thursday outside the Ferguson police department.The shots were fired as police were confronting protesters who had gathered outside the police station.

People have completely lost their minds there.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/12/us/ferguson-protests/index.html

Several protesters said the shooter was not near the crowd of demonstrators, but was up on a grassy hill.

The gunman was "no less than 100 feet" away, protester Kayla Reed said.

But the protest Wednesday night appeared to be the largest since November, when a grand jury decided not to indict Wilson for Brown's death. The latest protest suggests anger in Ferguson is far from over, even after the police chief's departure.

"We aren't satisfied with this," Reed said of Jackson's resignation. "It's a step in the right direction, but it's not what total justice looks like in Ferguson."

Total justice, she said, would include the departure of the mayor. McKesson said justice would also include criminal charges against Wilson -- which a grand jury has already to decided against.

The Honestly at what point do the AG and the DOJ try to calm things down there? Basically you have a populace that has been told an 18 year old was gunned down for no reason and that they have no rights. This is getting close to revolt. It would be nice to hear Holder tell, them, sorry, Wilson is totally innocent, that's what his own DOJ says. It's hard to believe this is going on.

Their attempts to "calm things down" are what's lead to things like this.

The Federal Government hasn't taken much of an active role in calming things down.

 

[PinkydaPimp]

FERGUSON • Two police officers were hit by gunfire early Thursday outside the Ferguson police department.The shots were fired as police were confronting protesters who had gathered outside the police station.

People have completely lost their minds there.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/12/us/ferguson-protests/index.html

Several protesters said the shooter was not near the crowd of demonstrators, but was up on a grassy hill.

The gunman was "no less than 100 feet" away, protester Kayla Reed said.

But the protest Wednesday night appeared to be the largest since November, when a grand jury decided not to indict Wilson for Brown's death. The latest protest suggests anger in Ferguson is far from over, even after the police chief's departure.

"We aren't satisfied with this," Reed said of Jackson's resignation. "It's a step in the right direction, but it's not what total justice looks like in Ferguson."

Total justice, she said, would include the departure of the mayor. McKesson said justice would also include criminal charges against Wilson -- which a grand jury has already to decided against.

Honestly at what point do the AG and the DOJ try to calm things down there? Basically you have a populace that has been told an 18 year old was gunned down for no reason and that they have no rights. This is getting close to revolt. It would be nice to hear Holder tell, them, sorry, Wilson is totally innocent, that's what his own DOJ says. It's hard to believe this is going on.

The problem is not Wilson. The problem is the systemic racial bias that has been going on for decades. Thats why they are protesting. Telling them that its all ok now is a lie because it isn't. Unfortunately, there really isnt anything that can change/fix things right away as this takes time.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Well, the most immediate problem is citizens attacking and/or shooting police.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Well, the most immediate problem is citizens attacking and/or shooting police.

Generally something has to happen more than once for it to be considered an ongoing problem. Do the Orioles have a "throwing bats at opposing players" problem?

 

[Rayderr]

FERGUSON • Two police officers were hit by gunfire early Thursday outside the Ferguson police department.The shots were fired as police were confronting protesters who had gathered outside the police station.

People have completely lost their minds there.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/12/us/ferguson-protests/index.html

Several protesters said the shooter was not near the crowd of demonstrators, but was up on a grassy hill.

The gunman was "no less than 100 feet" away, protester Kayla Reed said.

But the protest Wednesday night appeared to be the largest since November, when a grand jury decided not to indict Wilson for Brown's death. The latest protest suggests anger in Ferguson is far from over, even after the police chief's departure.

"We aren't satisfied with this," Reed said of Jackson's resignation. "It's a step in the right direction, but it's not what total justice looks like in Ferguson."

Total justice, she said, would include the departure of the mayor. McKesson said justice would also include criminal charges against Wilson -- which a grand jury has already to decided against.

The Honestly at what point do the AG and the DOJ try to calm things down there? Basically you have a populace that has been told an 18 year old was gunned down for no reason and that they have no rights. This is getting close to revolt. It would be nice to hear Holder tell, them, sorry, Wilson is totally innocent, that's what his own DOJ says. It's hard to believe this is going on.

Their attempts to "calm things down" are what's lead to things like this.

The Federal Government hasn't taken much of an active role in calming things down.

Kinda my point. If anything, they've made it worse in the past 6 years.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

FERGUSON • Two police officers were hit by gunfire early Thursday outside the Ferguson police department.The shots were fired as police were confronting protesters who had gathered outside the police station.

People have completely lost their minds there.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/12/us/ferguson-protests/index.html

Several protesters said the shooter was not near the crowd of demonstrators, but was up on a grassy hill.

The gunman was "no less than 100 feet" away, protester Kayla Reed said.

But the protest Wednesday night appeared to be the largest since November, when a grand jury decided not to indict Wilson for Brown's death. The latest protest suggests anger in Ferguson is far from over, even after the police chief's departure.

"We aren't satisfied with this," Reed said of Jackson's resignation. "It's a step in the right direction, but it's not what total justice looks like in Ferguson."

Total justice, she said, would include the departure of the mayor. McKesson said justice would also include criminal charges against Wilson -- which a grand jury has already to decided against.

Honestly at what point do the AG and the DOJ try to calm things down there? Basically you have a populace that has been told an 18 year old was gunned down for no reason and that they have no rights. This is getting close to revolt. It would be nice to hear Holder tell, them, sorry, Wilson is totally innocent, that's what his own DOJ says. It's hard to believe this is going on.

The problem is not Wilson. The problem is the systemic racial bias that has been going on for decades. Thats why they are protesting. Telling them that its all ok now is a lie because it isn't. Unfortunately, there really isnt anything that can change/fix things right away as this takes time.

Pinky I get all that, I've pointed out that I'm well familiar with this stuff here.

But there is no denying the fact that national media and the feds all the way to the very to have made 1. a false representation scenario about what happened to Brown, and 2. created a situation where the policies in place are connected to his death. We have been dealing with this for years here. We have a strong black political base, we have had black police chiefs, we have had black mayors and majority councils, we talk and interact as "races" constantly and politically, we have an inspector general, we have a police monitor, we have had the feds investigate, we have active reporting locally. The people of Ferguson don't have any of this, they don't seem to want it, and no one is suggesting they do it.

Instead we have one damning report from the DOJ purposefully follow the one exonerating report. So now 2 cops have been shot which is as connected to the second report's release as Ferguson's policies are to Brown's death. That's getting really close to blood for blood.

At some point other people have to say the rage needs to be focused into change and reform and not rage.

It sounds like they want Wilson prosecuted and sentenced to life or executed and won't accept anything else. This is damned near lynch mob stuff and it is not constructive.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Well, the most immediate problem is citizens attacking and/or shooting police.

Generally something has to happen more than once for it to be considered an ongoing problem. Do the Orioles have a "throwing bats at opposing players" problem?

They did...and it was handled. Nobody came to his defense or made excuses. This also isn't a single incident.

 

[[icon]]

As well it should. We can talk all we want about isolated incidents of perceived police injustices, but these officers work with the worst of the worst every day; Liars, cheats, rapist, child molesters , wife beaters, drug addicts, drug pushers, armed robbers, and killers. What we should be is amazed, that with the hundreds of thousands of police officers and the millions of confrontations they have that there are so few incidents. We are quick to thank the armed forces for their service, why not the guys that are on the frontline at home protecting us.

Maybe if the officers looked at their practices and did not incite violence themselves or harass the communities they are policing it would help reduce violence, not increase it.

Bull....#### excuse for criminal behavior.

When a child acts out in school, don't they in most cases look into whats going on at home? whats causing this behavior? This is no different. Until we look toward the root of these issues we will never move forward. DOJ did that and its no surprise that things are so bad there. It doesnt excuse criminal behavior. However, you arent going to make things better there unless the underlying issues are fixed. However, part of me things people like yourself would rather things arent fixed!

So the people of Ferguson are all just a bunch of children?

Seems like some of them are acting like it, no?

 

[[icon]]

Well, the most immediate problem is citizens attacking and/or shooting police.

Generally something has to happen more than once for it to be considered an ongoing problem. Do the Orioles have a "throwing bats at opposing players" problem?

They did...and it was handled. Nobody came to his defense or made excuses.This also isn't a single incident.

Be prepared for him to now back away from his statement, doing a little dance of semantics, coming up with arbitrary qualifications for his statement that weren't expressed initially... etc.

Congrats, you're Funke'd

 

[Rayderr]

Well, the most immediate problem is citizens attacking and/or shooting police.

Generally something has to happen more than once for it to be considered an ongoing problem. Do the Orioles have a "throwing bats at opposing players" problem?

Well, it happened twice last night (unless one bullet stroke both officers) and you got the NYC incident not too long ago, Officer in Philly killed last week, Fulton County GA officer also killed last week, Minneapolis police officer 3 weeks ago...

 

[TobiasFunke]

Well, the most immediate problem is citizens attacking and/or shooting police.

Generally something has to happen more than once for it to be considered an ongoing problem. Do the Orioles have a "throwing bats at opposing players" problem?

They did...and it was handled. Nobody came to his defense or made excuses.This also isn't a single incident.

1. Plenty of people came to his defense and made excuses.

2. I'm not aware of any other police being shot in Ferguson, but maybe I missed something?

3. The point, as I'm sure you know, is that when someone does something wrong, we should condemn the person who did the bad thing, not everyone who is affiliated with them somehow even if they're not involved in the wrongdoing.

I gotta say I find it odd that conservatives are all about accountability and personal responsibility and individuality 99% of the time, but now somehow the shooting is a product of all these different factors: the media and the feds, the tone struck by the protestors, all that stuff. How about we condemn the POS that shot at the cops? If this becomes an ongoing thing we can ask why, but it hasn't been so far.

 

[[icon]]

Well, the most immediate problem is citizens attacking and/or shooting police.

Generally something has to happen more than once for it to be considered an ongoing problem. Do the Orioles have a "throwing bats at opposing players" problem?

Well, it happened twice last night (unless one bullet stroke both officers) and you got the NYC incident not too long ago, Officer in Philly killed last week, Fulton County GA officer also killed last week, Minneapolis police officer 3 weeks ago...

He clearly meant it had to happen more than once between 6pm and midnight on March 11th within a 2mi radius of these incidents.

Get it together, dude.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Well, the most immediate problem is citizens attacking and/or shooting police.

Generally something has to happen more than once for it to be considered an ongoing problem. Do the Orioles have a "throwing bats at opposing players" problem?

Well, it happened twice last night (unless one bullet stroke both officers) and you got the NYC incident not too long ago, Officer in Philly killed last week, Fulton County GA officer also killed last week, Minneapolis police officer 3 weeks ago...

I assume it was the same shooter, no?

And law enforcement have been getting killed even since we had laws that needed enforcing. What's unusual here (and in NYC) is that the shooting was random and not connected to other criminal activity. Some googling tells me that's not the case with the other incidents. Not to condone police shootings- they're all terrible and tragic and we should do what we can to stop them. But police getting shot in the line of duty is not a new thing.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

3. The point, as I'm sure you know, is that when someone does something wrong, we should condemn the person who did the bad thing

Like when someone commits robbery and multiple assaults in a short period of time?

 

[TobiasFunke]

3. The point, as I'm sure you know, is that when someone does something wrong, we should condemn the person who did the bad thing

Like when someone commits robbery and multiple assaults in a short period of time?

Yup. Committing robbery and multiple assaults in a short period of time is a bad thing, and the person that does it should be arrested and charged with those crimes.

 

[Rayderr]

Well, the most immediate problem is citizens attacking and/or shooting police.

Generally something has to happen more than once for it to be considered an ongoing problem. Do the Orioles have a "throwing bats at opposing players" problem?

Well, it happened twice last night (unless one bullet stroke both officers) and you got the NYC incident not too long ago, Officer in Philly killed last week, Fulton County GA officer also killed last week, Minneapolis police officer 3 weeks ago...

I assume it was the same shooter, no?

And law enforcement have been getting killed even since we had laws that needed enforcing. What's unusual here (and in NYC) is that the shooting was random and not connected to other criminal activity. Some googling tells me that's not the case with the other incidents. Not to condone police shootings- they're all terrible and tragic and we should do what we can to stop them. But police getting shot in the line of duty is not a new thing.

Whoa! Did you all see that? Those goal posts just moved 30 yards to the left!

 

[TobiasFunke]

Well, the most immediate problem is citizens attacking and/or shooting police.

Generally something has to happen more than once for it to be considered an ongoing problem. Do the Orioles have a "throwing bats at opposing players" problem?

Well, it happened twice last night (unless one bullet stroke both officers) and you got the NYC incident not too long ago, Officer in Philly killed last week, Fulton County GA officer also killed last week, Minneapolis police officer 3 weeks ago...

I assume it was the same shooter, no?

And law enforcement have been getting killed even since we had laws that needed enforcing. What's unusual here (and in NYC) is that the shooting was random and not connected to other criminal activity. Some googling tells me that's not the case with the other incidents. Not to condone police shootings- they're all terrible and tragic and we should do what we can to stop them. But police getting shot in the line of duty is not a new thing.

Whoa! Did you all see that? Those goal posts just moved 30 yards to the left!

No, not at all. I think it's very clear in this context that the "problem" being discussed here is people taking random shots at cops out of anger or retaliation for police shootings/discrimination. That's why I mentioned people blaming the media or the tone of the protests. If you want to talk about the problem of people shooting officers generally it's a totally different discussion for a totally different thread and a problem that dates back to the invention of guns.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

FERGUSON • Two police officers were hit by gunfire early Thursday outside the Ferguson police department.The shots were fired as police were confronting protesters who had gathered outside the police station.

People have completely lost their minds there.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/12/us/ferguson-protests/index.html

Several protesters said the shooter was not near the crowd of demonstrators, but was up on a grassy hill.

The gunman was "no less than 100 feet" away, protester Kayla Reed said.

But the protest Wednesday night appeared to be the largest since November, when a grand jury decided not to indict Wilson for Brown's death. The latest protest suggests anger in Ferguson is far from over, even after the police chief's departure.

"We aren't satisfied with this," Reed said of Jackson's resignation. "It's a step in the right direction, but it's not what total justice looks like in Ferguson."

Total justice, she said, would include the departure of the mayor. McKesson said justice would also include criminal charges against Wilson -- which a grand jury has already to decided against.

Honestly at what point do the AG and the DOJ try to calm things down there? Basically you have a populace that has been told an 18 year old was gunned down for no reason and that they have no rights. This is getting close to revolt. It would be nice to hear Holder tell, them, sorry, Wilson is totally innocent, that's what his own DOJ says. It's hard to believe this is going on.

The problem is not Wilson. The problem is the systemic racial bias that has been going on for decades. Thats why they are protesting. Telling them that its all ok now is a lie because it isn't. Unfortunately, there really isnt anything that can change/fix things right away as this takes time.

So the police force needs to be fixed but none of the people they police need fixing?

 

[mcintyre1]

FERGUSON • Two police officers were hit by gunfire early Thursday outside the Ferguson police department.The shots were fired as police were confronting protesters who had gathered outside the police station.

People have completely lost their minds there.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/12/us/ferguson-protests/index.html

Several protesters said the shooter was not near the crowd of demonstrators, but was up on a grassy hill.

The gunman was "no less than 100 feet" away, protester Kayla Reed said.

But the protest Wednesday night appeared to be the largest since November, when a grand jury decided not to indict Wilson for Brown's death. The latest protest suggests anger in Ferguson is far from over, even after the police chief's departure.

"We aren't satisfied with this," Reed said of Jackson's resignation. "It's a step in the right direction, but it's not what total justice looks like in Ferguson."

Total justice, she said, would include the departure of the mayor. McKesson said justice would also include criminal charges against Wilson -- which a grand jury has already to decided against.

Honestly at what point do the AG and the DOJ try to calm things down there? Basically you have a populace that has been told an 18 year old was gunned down for no reason and that they have no rights. This is getting close to revolt. It would be nice to hear Holder tell, them, sorry, Wilson is totally innocent, that's what his own DOJ says. It's hard to believe this is going on.

The problem is not Wilson. The problem is the systemic racial bias that has been going on for decades. Thats why they are protesting. Telling them that its all ok now is a lie because it isn't. Unfortunately, there really isnt anything that can change/fix things right away as this takes time.

So the police force needs to be fixed but none of the people they police need fixing?

Come on now, even you're not this obtuse. Which is a reasonable expectation of the state: eliminating racism, cronyism, and corruption from an office of the state, or forcefully re-educating tens of thousands of citizens?

 

[lod01]

Looks like these so called protesters are just a bunch of life's losers. Here we have two officers shot in front of the police HQ and no one stepping forward and pointing them out. Pretty much defeats their whole purpose yet they do nothing about it.

 

[jonessed]

As well it should. We can talk all we want about isolated incidents of perceived police injustices, but these officers work with the worst of the worst every day; Liars, cheats, rapist, child molesters , wife beaters, drug addicts, drug pushers, armed robbers, and killers. What we should be is amazed, that with the hundreds of thousands of police officers and the millions of confrontations they have that there are so few incidents. We are quick to thank the armed forces for their service, why not the guys that are on the frontline at home protecting us.

Maybe if the officers looked at their practices and did not incite violence themselves or harass the communities they are policing it would help reduce violence, not increase it.

Bull....#### excuse for criminal behavior.

When a child acts out in school, don't they in most cases look into whats going on at home? whats causing this behavior? This is no different. Until we look toward the root of these issues we will never move forward. DOJ did that and its no surprise that things are so bad there. It doesnt excuse criminal behavior. However, you arent going to make things better there unless the underlying issues are fixed. However, part of me thinks people like yourself would rather things arent fixed!

Ahh, so the criminals are just like children. I guess I never looked at it that way.

 

[mcintyre1]

FERGUSON • Two police officers were hit by gunfire early Thursday outside the Ferguson police department.The shots were fired as police were confronting protesters who had gathered outside the police station.

People have completely lost their minds there.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/12/us/ferguson-protests/index.html

Several protesters said the shooter was not near the crowd of demonstrators, but was up on a grassy hill.

The gunman was "no less than 100 feet" away, protester Kayla Reed said.

But the protest Wednesday night appeared to be the largest since November, when a grand jury decided not to indict Wilson for Brown's death. The latest protest suggests anger in Ferguson is far from over, even after the police chief's departure.

"We aren't satisfied with this," Reed said of Jackson's resignation. "It's a step in the right direction, but it's not what total justice looks like in Ferguson."

Total justice, she said, would include the departure of the mayor. McKesson said justice would also include criminal charges against Wilson -- which a grand jury has already to decided against.

Honestly at what point do the AG and the DOJ try to calm things down there? Basically you have a populace that has been told an 18 year old was gunned down for no reason and that they have no rights. This is getting close to revolt. It would be nice to hear Holder tell, them, sorry, Wilson is totally innocent, that's what his own DOJ says. It's hard to believe this is going on.

Confirmation from St Louis Co Police Chief Belmar that the shots came from distance:

• Chief Belmar: Officers saw muzzle flashes about 125 yards away. Officers drew guns, but did not fire. #Ferguson

 

[Ditka Butkus]

FERGUSON • Two police officers were hit by gunfire early Thursday outside the Ferguson police department.The shots were fired as police were confronting protesters who had gathered outside the police station.

People have completely lost their minds there.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/12/us/ferguson-protests/index.html

Several protesters said the shooter was not near the crowd of demonstrators, but was up on a grassy hill.

The gunman was "no less than 100 feet" away, protester Kayla Reed said.

But the protest Wednesday night appeared to be the largest since November, when a grand jury decided not to indict Wilson for Brown's death. The latest protest suggests anger in Ferguson is far from over, even after the police chief's departure.

"We aren't satisfied with this," Reed said of Jackson's resignation. "It's a step in the right direction, but it's not what total justice looks like in Ferguson."

Total justice, she said, would include the departure of the mayor. McKesson said justice would also include criminal charges against Wilson -- which a grand jury has already to decided against.

Honestly at what point do the AG and the DOJ try to calm things down there? Basically you have a populace that has been told an 18 year old was gunned down for no reason and that they have no rights. This is getting close to revolt. It would be nice to hear Holder tell, them, sorry, Wilson is totally innocent, that's what his own DOJ says. It's hard to believe this is going on.

The problem is not Wilson. The problem is the systemic racial bias that has been going on for decades. Thats why they are protesting. Telling them that its all ok now is a lie because it isn't. Unfortunately, there really isnt anything that can change/fix things right away as this takes time.

So the police force needs to be fixed but none of the people they police need fixing?

Come on now, even you're not this obtuse. Which is a reasonable expectation of the state: eliminating racism, cronyism, and corruption from an office of the state, or forcefully re-educating tens of thousands of citizens?

So we eliminate racism, cronyism and corruption from a police force but still have all the criminals and you think the outcome will be different. No unarmed black criminals who are assaulting a police officer will ever be shot and killed again right. The fact of the matter is from here to the end of time if a white police officer shoots a black criminal he will be considered a racist by the black community. Do we ever have this conversation when a black officer shoots an unarmed black criminal?

 

[Clifford]

As well it should. We can talk all we want about isolated incidents of perceived police injustices, but these officers work with the worst of the worst every day; Liars, cheats, rapist, child molesters , wife beaters, drug addicts, drug pushers, armed robbers, and killers. What we should be is amazed, that with the hundreds of thousands of police officers and the millions of confrontations they have that there are so few incidents. We are quick to thank the armed forces for their service, why not the guys that are on the frontline at home protecting us.

We are talking about systemic, prolonged incidents of real police injustice, not isolated incidents of perceived police injustice.