What I mean is, if I said "I happen to think it is because blacks are more violent, which leads to more arrests", immediately red flags of racism will be raised.
Says who?
Mattyl has a very good point: it is very very
hard to talk about intrinsic differences between the races without being labeled as a racist from the outset. for a variety of reasons that are difficult to discuss from my phone. I happen to disagree that there are indeed intrinsic differences -- I think most (maybe all) of the apparent differences we see can be attributed to cultural factors.
But I for one will try to keep from passing judgment. I've failed a few times in this thread already. But whatever.
I don't think you guys are using "intrinsic" correctly. Because if you are, then proposing that there are
any differences other than physical ones would be pretty much the dictionary definition of racism. "Intrinsic" means internal, innate, belonging to something's essential nature.
Similarly, if matttyl is saying that black people are more violent because of something "intrinsic" rather than because of external factors, then yeah, that's racist. Really, really racist. The kind of stuff that even 100 years ago people wouldn't say without first putting on a white hood to cloak their identity.
I don't think matttyl or SweetJ or anyone else here actually thinks those things, but just a heads-up that you all might want to be a little more careful with the word choice.
No, I was using it correctly (or, more accurately -- I was using the word "intrinsically" in the same way that Tobias defined). I used it because it was my understanding of what Mattyl was saying. If Mattyl comes back and says "no, that's not what I meant," then I will stand corrected.
But I do disagree on one thing: I think it is entirely fair to ask the question of whether there are "intrinsic" differences between the races. In any discussion of cause/effect or analytic study, or whatever, I think it is entirely reasonable to throw out all potential causes/scenarios, test them, discuss them, whatever. I don't think there are "intrinsic" differences between the races, but I can certainly understand why someone would think so. And, if he expressed a question about it, I would hope I don't throw out a douchey response that your post comes dangerously close to hitting (I'm not trying to flame, it's just that, if I DID think someone was well-intentioned but racist (or just way, way, wrong), I think I'd hold off on the accusations of racism before hearing them out and their perceptions.
Actually, I'll be less diplomatic: I don't like your post. You don't really know where I am coming from, and I certainly don't know where Mattyl is coming from, and you throw out the histrionics of kkk and whatever. It really is ok to ask: Are there any "intrinsic" differences (physical, emotional, health, intellegence, etc.), between any of the differering "races" on this earth.
And there are many perfectly acceptable answers (from "hell no," to "what exactly to you mean by "differences," to "well possibly, if you are talking about a person's susceptability to cicle-cell anemia, but not really anything else"). But "you are a racist for even rasing the question" is a douchey answer and doesn't contribute to a constructive dialogue at all.
EDIT: I just noticed Tobias' bolded part (I bolded for him so he wouldn't have to in his reply). Yeah, ok. I get it. And I get the horrible history that we have with this issue.
I guess my point it this: People like Mattyl are going to believe what they believe regardless of whether a whiney east-coast liberal yells at him that he's a racist. He has probably experienced things himself, or seen enough of the world to make conclusions based on his anecdotal experience, or learned from friends or parents -- because that's how a grand majority of us define our worldview.
So, yeah, to the extent that he or anyone else may think there are some "intrinsic" differences between white people and black, asian, or other descent, I am genuinely curious for his thoughts. And you coming in here with your histrionics get in the way of an honest answer from him. (and I know I'm not one to talk, really, I made my own attacks in this thread. But whatever. I just wanted to hear his honest response).
i hope your fishing.
Pre-judging other people is human nature. It's simple pattern recognition and a defense mechanism. What we need to remember is that just because a group demonstrates a particular pattern of behavior does not mean that every person in that group behaves that way, just that most, or even just some, do. Blacks may prejudge police, and it may indeed be justified. That doesn't mean every cop is bad. The victim here might want to think twice before riding that train again, and indeed he says he won't ride again for a while. That doesn't mean every train that is occupied by predominantly black teens is dangerous, or that every black person on that train is a criminal.
