Madonna with a lesson on how not to be a content creator (1 Viewer)

[Todem]

IDK, she seemed genuinely curious why someone was sitting. I don't sense any shaming in her tone or words. She even apologizes and thanks the person for being there. I assume, as far as Madonna could see, this was the only person not standing. That was noticeable. This is different than someone putting out content and not everyone likes it. This is a concert where people pay a cost to be there. Maybe she just wanted to make sure that person was having a good time.

I think Joe's point is a good one for people in certain lines of business, but I'm not sure how relatable this video is to that point.

While this is a fair point, Madonna has such a long history of treating her fans like crap (see: her decades of showing up hours late to shows) that it is hard to give her the benefit of the doubt.

And I like a fair amount of Madonna songs. Live to Tell and Borderline are two of my favorite songs from my 80s playlist, Ray of Light is a terrific record from start to finish, and she has plenty of other good songs scattered about over the years, but she's just really hard to like as a person.

I don't disagree about your sentiment on Madonna both as a person and an artist.

But that was a nothing burger innocent instance of concert shtick that kinda backfired and she immediately apologized.

There was no cruel intent in her tone or anything.

Nothing to see here at all IMO.

And also an instance of the hyper sensitivity this nation has become because of social media
Nit picking and everyone who has an opinion on everything.

No offense to Joe either.

 

[Wildcat]

IDK, she seemed genuinely curious why someone was sitting. I don't sense any shaming in her tone or words. She even apologizes and thanks the person for being there. I assume, as far as Madonna could see, this was the only person not standing. That was noticeable. This is different than someone putting out content and not everyone likes it. This is a concert where people pay a cost to be there. Maybe she just wanted to make sure that person was having a good time.

I think Joe's point is a good one for people in certain lines of business, but I'm not sure how relatable this video is to that point.

While this is a fair point, Madonna has such a long history of treating her fans like crap (see: her decades of showing up hours late to shows) that it is hard to give her the benefit of the doubt.

And I like a fair amount of Madonna songs. Live to Tell and Borderline are two of my favorite songs from my 80s playlist, Ray of Light is a terrific record from start to finish, and she has plenty of other good songs scattered about over the years, but she's just really hard to like as a person.

I don't disagree about your sentiment on Madonna both as a person and an artist.

But that was a nothing burger innocent instance of concert shtick that kinda backfired and she immediately apologized.

There was no cruel intent in her tone or anything.

Nothing to see here at all IMO.

And also an instance of the hyper sensitivity this nation has become because of social media
Nit picking and everyone who has an opinion on everything.

No offense to Joe either.

Excellent take. No cruel intent and she apologized. We have all put our foot in our mouth at some point. We just haven't done it before a large audience where we are also being recorded.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I don't disagree about your sentiment on Madonna both as a person and an artist.

But that was a nothing burger innocent instance of concert shtick that kinda backfired and she immediately apologized.

There was no cruel intent in her tone or anything.

Nothing to see here at all IMO.

And also an instance of the hyper sensitivity this nation has become because of social media
Nit picking and everyone who has an opinion on everything.

No offense to Joe either.

I'm not sure on "kinda backfired". I don't know how this could have backfired more for her.

And I don't think anyone thought there was any cruel intent at all on her part.

But Madonna herself was not important to the point.

The point was to not worry about the folks that aren't with you. For one reason, they may well have a good reason for appearing to not be with you, as was the case here.

But the bigger picture point is just don't worry at all. If the fan had been sitting because they actually didn't like the song, the same advice would hold: Don't sweat the small percentage of folks who aren't with you.

I was thinking mostly from the angle of people who create content. Like people writing about fantasy football or any other sort of endeavor with an audience. I see lots of content creators obsess over the (often extremely small) number of people who aren't with them. Or criticize them.

It's human nature to focus sometimes on the negative more heavily than the positive. But I think that can be crippling for creators. They'll put out an article that 99 people love and one person doesn't. And instead of being happy about bringing value to 99%, they'll focus on the 1%. When the reality is they should be happy about the 99.

And I realize this forum audience is less related to creating content than my Twitter audience where I have lots more people reading there who are in the content creating space.

I for sure took no offense to your thoughtful post @Todem. I just don't agree this was about hyper sensitivity or nit picking. For me, it was about not obsessing over a few people who might not seemingly be with you on something.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I honestly wasn't confused until everybody else was. I assumed Joe meant that Madonna was the content creator and that his message was directed at people who are writing, filming, etc. Don't do what Madonna did to her seated fan.

Aside from the original point of not being distracted by a few folks seemingly not with you, this thread was another excellent example of how difficult it can be to clearly make a point.

Always a learning experience.

 

[ChiefD]

This is one strange thread.

 

[El Floppo]

I honestly wasn't confused until everybody else was. I assumed Joe meant that Madonna was the content creator and that his message was directed at people who are writing, filming, etc. Don't do what Madonna did to her seated fan.

Aside from the original point of not being distracted by a few folks seemingly not with you, this thread was another excellent example of how difficult it can be to clearly make a point.

Always a learning experience.

There was a point?







I kid! I think...
Ahem... Don't sweat negativity in an age of hot take social media trolls. More or less.

 

[Willie Neslon]

I think the issue was you misrepresented the Madonna clip and twisted it to fit your narrative. But I agree that "ignore the haters" is good advice for anyone.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I think the issue was you misrepresented the Madonna clip and twisted it to fit your narrative. But I agree that "ignore the haters" is good advice for anyone.

And at me staying in on this but I'm genuinely interested in how people see it.

What was "misrepresented"? I said don't worry about calling out the people not going along. Like she did.

And what was the "twisted to fit my narrative"? I thought it was pretty clear: Don't do what she did here. But obviously not.

 

[Gally]

I was thinking mostly from the angle of people who create content. Like people writing about fantasy football or any other sort of endeavor with an audience. I see lots of content creators obsess over the (often extremely small) number of people who aren't with them. Or criticize them.

But isn't doing the bolded a way to improve your content? I wouldn't say "obsessing" over the negative is what I am talking about but if you are trying to improve your content taking into account the complaints is a beneficial approach. It's not to say that you need to change everything for the minority complaint but you may be able to improve the overall content by understanding the complaint and adjusting. Of course, there are always some complaints that don't have merit and then you move on from that as well. But completely ignoring negative inputs can be detrimental to your improvement as well.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I was thinking mostly from the angle of people who create content. Like people writing about fantasy football or any other sort of endeavor with an audience. I see lots of content creators obsess over the (often extremely small) number of people who aren't with them. Or criticize them.

But isn't doing the bolded a way to improve your content? I wouldn't say "obsessing" over the negative is what I am talking about but if you are trying to improve your content taking into account the complaints is a beneficial approach. It's not to say that you need to change everything for the minority complaint but you may be able to improve the overall content by understanding the complaint and adjusting. Of course, there are always some complaints that don't have merit and then you move on from that as well. But completely ignoring negative inputs can be detrimental to your improvement as well.

He isnt saying not to focus on why the person was not pleased with your content or to not have some introspection.

He is saying dont focus on the individual.

Lets say lady wasnt in a wheelchair. How does madonna get better because she called her out for not standing?

This isnt like madonna sought her out after the show to get some constructive criticism.

 

[Todem]

I don't disagree about your sentiment on Madonna both as a person and an artist.

But that was a nothing burger innocent instance of concert shtick that kinda backfired and she immediately apologized.

There was no cruel intent in her tone or anything.

Nothing to see here at all IMO.

And also an instance of the hyper sensitivity this nation has become because of social media
Nit picking and everyone who has an opinion on everything.

No offense to Joe either.

I'm not sure on "kinda backfired". I don't know how this could have backfired more for her.

And I don't think anyone thought there was any cruel intent at all on her part.

But Madonna herself was not important to the point.

The point was to not worry about the folks that aren't with you. For one reason, they may well have a good reason for appearing to not be with you, as was the case here.

But the bigger picture point is just don't worry at all. If the fan had been sitting because they actually didn't like the song, the same advice would hold: Don't sweat the small percentage of folks who aren't with you.

I was thinking mostly from the angle of people who create content. Like people writing about fantasy football or any other sort of endeavor with an audience. I see lots of content creators obsess over the (often extremely small) number of people who aren't with them. Or criticize them.

It's human nature to focus sometimes on the negative more heavily than the positive. But I think that can be crippling for creators. They'll put out an article that 99 people love and one person doesn't. And instead of being happy about bringing value to 99%, they'll focus on the 1%. When the reality is they should be happy about the 99.

And I realize this forum audience is less related to creating content than my Twitter audience where I have lots more people reading there who are in the content creating space.

I for sure took no offense to your thoughtful post @Todem. I just don't agree this was about hyper sensitivity or nit picking. For me, it was about not obsessing over a few people who might not seemingly be with you on something.

Good point Joe. I agree with the over obsession of people counting their likes and clicks.

That is a very good angle and thanks for clarifying that as well.

 

[Willie Neslon]

I think the issue was you misrepresented the Madonna clip and twisted it to fit your narrative. But I agree that "ignore the haters" is good advice for anyone.

And at me staying in on this but I'm genuinely interested in how people see it.

What was "misrepresented"? I said don't worry about calling out the people not going along. Like she did.

And what was the "twisted to fit my narrative"? I thought it was pretty clear: Don't do what she did here. But obviously not.

Because she wasn't trying to humiliate the woman. She wasn't trying to make the woman feel ashamed for not standing. She was asking why she wasn't standing. She was trying to include her in that moment. She's done thousands of shows and I'm going to guess that somebody not standing who is that close to the stage would have been a rare occurrence. Madge was genuinely "shuked". She also immediately apologized when she could see why the woman wasn't standing and went the extra mile to let her know she was glad she was there. There is no "Ouch" there.

And as far as twisting it to fit a narrative, you represent the clip in a negative way to make a roundabout point about how you shouldn't focus on people who aren't cheering you on in the business of content creation which is a bit of an absurd connection to make. The woman at the concert in the wheelchair was a Madonna fan. She wasn't someone who wasn't cheering because she wasn't a fan which is the point you were trying to make. If you had used that clip to say something like "some of our followers may not be able to interact with us for reasons that we can't know or see", that would have made much more sense than the way you used the clip to illustrate your point. It would have been kind of a ridiculous and unnecessary point to make but it would have at least fit with the video.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I think the issue was you misrepresented the Madonna clip and twisted it to fit your narrative. But I agree that "ignore the haters" is good advice for anyone.

And at me staying in on this but I'm genuinely interested in how people see it.

What was "misrepresented"? I said don't worry about calling out the people not going along. Like she did.

And what was the "twisted to fit my narrative"? I thought it was pretty clear: Don't do what she did here. But obviously not.

Because she wasn't trying to humiliate the woman. She wasn't trying to make the woman feel ashamed for not standing. She was asking why she wasn't standing. She was trying to include her in that moment. She's done thousands of shows and I'm going to guess that somebody not standing who is that close to the stage would have been a rare occurrence. Madge was genuinely "shuked". She also immediately apologized when she could see why the woman wasn't standing and went the extra mile to let her know she was glad she was there. There is no "Ouch" there.

And as far as twisting it to fit a narrative, you represent the clip in a negative way to make a roundabout point about how you shouldn't focus on people who aren't cheering you on in the business of content creation which is a bit of an absurd connection to make. The woman at the concert in the wheelchair was a Madonna fan who was in a wheelchair. She wasn't someone who wasn't cheering because she wasn't a fan which is the point you were trying to make. If you had used that clip to say something like "some of our followers may not be able to interact with us for reasons that we can't know or see", that would have made much more sense than the way you used the clip to illustrate your point. It would have been kind of a ridiculous and unnecessary point to make but it would have at least fit with the video.

Thanks for sharing. We'll agree to disagree there but thanks for sharing the insights on how you saw it. Super interesting.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

I know this is probably an unpopular take—but I feel like there is a lot of reaching to extract some sort of life lesson from this particular situation. I’m not a Madonna fan, but I also think that in this case—all she is guilty of is misreading a situation, she instantly became aware that she misread the situation—and instantly apologized and moved on. She is an entertainer and she seemed concerned that a person at her show was not being entertained. The moment she found out that this was not a case of an unhappy consumer, but rather somebody with a disability—she stepped back. We can try to extract that her “calling somebody out” was wack—but how about giving her some credit for immediately backing off and apologizing the very moment she was confronted with more information? Expecting perfection from an entertainer or a content creator is passing judgement. We are all humans, we all have had and will have many missteps—it’s how we correct and move forward from those lapses of judgment that creates progress. In this era—where entertainers have been chastised and blamed for not paying attention to crowds—with people having too much fun and getting rowdy to the point where people get trampled, to people falling sick at concerts and the entertainer continuing on and not paying attention—I do think that her paying close attention to her crowd is probably something that deserves a little bit of credit. If that same person didn’t stand up because they had fallen ill or suffered an injury—her calling that out would have immediately exposed it—and she would have been praised for that.

 

[jhib]

The "Oh. Politically incorrect. Sorry." gave the apology a sarcastic tone to me, but I'm probably just being uncharitable.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I was thinking mostly from the angle of people who create content. Like people writing about fantasy football or any other sort of endeavor with an audience. I see lots of content creators obsess over the (often extremely small) number of people who aren't with them. Or criticize them.

But isn't doing the bolded a way to improve your content? I wouldn't say "obsessing" over the negative is what I am talking about but if you are trying to improve your content taking into account the complaints is a beneficial approach. It's not to say that you need to change everything for the minority complaint but you may be able to improve the overall content by understanding the complaint and adjusting. Of course, there are always some complaints that don't have merit and then you move on from that as well. But completely ignoring negative inputs can be detrimental to your improvement as well.

He isnt saying not to focus on why the person was not pleased with your content or to not have some introspection.

He is saying dont focus on the individual.

Lets say lady wasnt in a wheelchair. How does madonna get better because she called her out for not standing?

This isnt like madonna sought her out after the show to get some constructive criticism.

Who knows what her intent was. Maybe if the audience member had said "I don't really like this next song" she would have asked her what song she wanted her to perform instead?

Or maybe she just got caught up in the moment, and if you're talking in front of 20,000 people 10 times a year for 20 years eventually you're going to say something kinda stupid. Pretty sure it happens to everyone that speaks publicly and it's pretty much just up to the rage baiters and what they decide to focus on. I mean if she was running for president this moment wouldn't even crack the top 100 of stupid stuff presidential candidates have said in front of a bunch of people over the last 10 years.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Who knows what her intent was. Maybe if the audience member had said "I don't really like this next song" she would have asked her what song she wanted her to perform instead?

Or maybe she just got caught up in the moment, and if you're talking in front of 20,000 people 10 times a year for 20 years eventually you're going to say something kinda stupid. Pretty sure it happens to everyone that speaks publicly and it's pretty much just up to the rage baiters and what they decide to focus on. I mean if she was running for president this moment wouldn't even crack the top 100 of stupid stuff presidential candidates have said in front of a bunch of people over the last 10 years.

There is no safe way for me to point out how silly this post is.

And certainly not getting baited into political discussion.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Did this particular episode get a bunch of play on social media and I just missed it? A lot of people seem to be bringing pre-baked arguments into this thread, and I can't quite figure out why. I watched the video, and I see a performer making a social faux pas on the same order as asking a woman if she's pregnant and being told no. It doesn't make her evil or anything, but its a little mortifying and serves as a warning to the rest of us. Why are people mad about this?

 

[UncleZen]

For all her faults, I would like to create some content with Madonna.