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"Mass Casualty Event" in Las Vegas (2 Viewers)

And this is about the time we get multiple news speculation reports so I stay out of the headlines until tonight or tomorrow when some of this gets sifted out.

 
Uwe Blab said:
So i wonder what was with all the reports of some lady at the concert beforehand saying "you are all gonna die here...."  Figured the companion was in it as well, but now not even in town?  These side reports as things unfold are bizarre. So I wonder if that lady was just some random Las Vegas crazy?
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Was just going to ask about this as I heard that earlier this morning. Seems to be no follow up on that yet.

 
honky kong said:
Henry Ford said:
Bronco Billy said:
So in your mind taking away the right to own guns would have prevented this?  Damn I really hate gun grabbers when they try to use these incidents as agenda firebrands.  Just disgusting.
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It's not an "agenda firebrand" it's a person outraged about the incident trying to figure out how to stop these, just like people who want to ban refugees and Middle East immigrants (which we constantly hear after other acts of terrorism.) 
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I'm wondering when it is ok to talk about this stuff. After everyone has moved on and forgot about it?
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I'm not a gun guy.

but for me, it's better to talk about this stuff after the smoke has cleared and after the dead have been counted. even though this guy is dead and the situation is over- the casualties and motive/associates are ongoing. there's still a lot to discuss before having this descend into the usual finger pointing, chest thumping that occurs on both firmly entrenched sides of the gun discussion.

eta: and that inevitable (and legitimate) discussion only distracts and detracts from the ongoing news about this... my 2c.

 
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If it was a Full-Auto Soviet LMG I have no idea how the guy got it legally...  I'm pretty Pro2A but there's no place for that kind of weapon in civillian hands. 

 
[icon] said:
If it was a Full-Auto Soviet LMG I have no idea how the guy got it legally...  I'm pretty Pro2A but there's no place for that kind of weapon in civillian hands. 
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Would such a weapon be available at a gun show? Say in a private transaction? If not, how would somebody acquire such a weapon? 

 
McJose said:
Just found out that some friends of ours were at the concert. They made it out OK.

Posted on FB that they are"fine but terrified". JFC

Also there is a rumor that a local cop was attending the concert and was killed.  But that has not been confirmed.
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Turns out local cop suffered non-life threatening injuries.

Oddly enough one of the people with my friends (I guess they went with a large group), Josh, was some sort of LEO as well.  Our friends couldn't find him in all the chaos. Seems that while the others got the hell out, Josh stayed behind to tend to the wounded.

Good lord.

 
[icon] said:
If it was a Full-Auto Soviet LMG I have no idea how the guy got it legally...  I'm pretty Pro2A but there's no place for that kind of weapon in civillian hands. 
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I've always wondered this. There is a huge arms market outside of the US where I would think you could get this kind of weapon but how do you get it into the country? Disassembled, by pieces? Label it machine parts and it typically wouldn't get checked I would think. I may or may not know a couple of guys that send weapons via mail to states that don't allow them this way. It would just take a while.

 
eoMMan said:
I definitely don't think all guns should be illegal but we definitely need to review all of our current gun rules/regulations.  For example, maybe more regulations in place in regards to who exactly should own these high powered weapons that can shoot many rounds in seconds (if anyone), background checks, mental illness history, etc etc.

To simply disregard our current gun laws/regulations and dismiss this as "Oh well, the guns themselves didn't do this" is ridiculous. 

Something needs to change.
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I am a 2nd Amendment advocate and I agree with you in regard to some limitations.

That said, bringing up the 2nd Amendment right now as if denying legal gun ownership to Americans would have somehow averted this is absolutely cashing in on the tragedy to benefit a political position and IMO is wrong considering that there are still people fighting for their lives in the wake of this.  Way out of line and abhorent.

 
Bronco Billy said:
I am a 2nd Amendment advocate and I agree with you in regard to some limitations.

That said, bringing up the 2nd Amendment right now as if denying legal gun ownership to Americans would have somehow averted this is absolutely cashing in on the tragedy to benefit a political position and IMO is wrong considering that there are still people fighting for their lives in the wake of this.  Way out of line and abhorent.
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And yet, like clockwork both sides will start pushing their agenda on the back of this tragedy in 3,2,1......

every.single.time

 
[icon] said:
If it was a Full-Auto Soviet LMG I have no idea how the guy got it legally...  I'm pretty Pro2A but there's no place for that kind of weapon in civillian hands. 
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Very light googling finds that these can be found for about $6k with replacement barrels about 300-600 each.  

My very early guess is he opened up with something belt fed then switched to bump fire or modded stuff once he melted down the lmg barrell or ran out of belt.  

Acoustic "experts from the internet" say the majority of the rounds "sound like" 7.62.  This aligns with reports from the ground, but there were also 308 sounding rounds as well later on.  

The confusion here comes from when each video that came out fit in the timeline, i.e. before or after the initial shots.

 
Sabertooth said:
Bronco Billy said:
I am a 2nd Amendment advocate and I agree with you in regard to some limitations.

That said, bringing up the 2nd Amendment right now as if denying legal gun ownership to Americans would have somehow averted this is absolutely cashing in on the tragedy to benefit a political position and IMO is wrong considering that there are still people fighting for their lives in the wake of this.  Way out of line and abhorent.
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And yet, like clockwork both sides will start pushing their agenda on the back of this tragedy in 3,2,1......

every.single.time
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agree with both of you.

but we can and have done much better here in the FFA lately... and we still can.

 
timschochet said:
Would such a weapon be available at a gun show? Say in a private transaction? If not, how would somebody acquire such a weapon? 
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One may be displayed at such shows, but not sold, as in carried out the door.  Transfer of such weapons takes the cooperation of a Federally licensed firearms dealer and a form 4 transfer.  Costly and takes weeks to months involving heightened scrutiny background checks by BATFE.

 
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timschochet said:
Would such a weapon be available at a gun show? Say in a private transaction? If not, how would somebody acquire such a weapon? 
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Tim--there is a dark market for anything.   I'm not sure how this is hard to understand.  There are drugs that have been illegal for many years--yet millions of people still manage to get their hands on them.  If somebody wants something that bad--they will find a way to get it--and somebody will provide it to them if the price is high enough.   I don't want to get into a gun control debate--as I'm not interested in that. I'm not a gun guy and frankly they scare the heck out of me--but the notion that making something illegal--or that something that is already illegal--makes that something impossible or nearly impossible to get  is absurd.  Aside from that--being that this event just happened--and bodies are still being identified and counted--it's probably best to focus on thoughts, prayers at this moment.   The gun debate should happen in the sub-forum at a later date in my opinion.  

 
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beer 30 said:
I've always wondered this. There is a huge arms market outside of the US where I would think you could get this kind of weapon but how do you get it into the country? Disassembled, by pieces? Label it machine parts and it typically wouldn't get checked I would think. I may or may not know a couple of guys that send weapons via mail to states that don't allow them this way. It would just take a while.
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Semi-Auto versions can be readily purchased/exchanged... Full Auto? I have no idea but guessing it's not readily available at a Gun show. From what I've seen... gun shows generally are by the book when it comes to class 3 weapons (full auto / silenced)... requiring proof of federal ATF paperwork. Not to say there aren't guys with stuff under their tables.. who knows. 

Now... grey/black market? I'm sure anything is available if you know where to look.. and no amount of regulation will impact that, unfortunately. See prohibition, war on drugs, etc. 


 

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
One may be displayed at such shows, but not sold, as in carried out the door.  Transfer of such weapons takes th ecooperation of a Federally licensed firearms dealer and a form 4 transfer.  Costly and takes weeks to months involving heightened scrutiny background checks by BATFA.
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:goodposting:  

Form 4 transfers are pretty serious stuff... I think you have to get your local Sheriff to sign off on you (not his secretary or deputy) as part of the process. I may be wrong. It's a highly involved, time consuming, and expensive process though. 

 
Excellent speech by President Trump just now.  :thumbup:

Most people here know that I'm not a fan, but no complaints today. He acted as President. 

 
[icon] said:
It's funny how some people hate LEO.... until they need them. Proud of LVPD's response to this horrible event. Glad to see them getting recognition. 
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I don't think anybody hates LEO. Certainly nobody that has ever posted in this forum that I know of. 

 
beer 30 said:
I'd venture to say some NFL players would beg to differ given recent events
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I wouldn't. This isn't the thread for it, but I invite you to come into the thread devoted to that subject and name the NFL players that hate the police and provide proof. 

 
beer 30 said:
timschochet said:
I don't think anybody hates LEO. Certainly nobody that has ever posted in this forum that I know of. 
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I'd venture to say some NFL players would beg to differ given recent events
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this is a completely different, and equally hot-button top guys. 

and of course there are people who don't like LEO- for a variety of reasons... here and everywhere. but again- IMO- best left elswhere.

 
Anybody seen an official count of 70? It was mentioned in here a bit earlier but all the mainstream sites still have the count at 50.

 
PIK95 said:
I just read this.  Where did you see that that report you read out of curiosity?
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yahoo.   obviously bs.   but  thats what you get in the first hour or two after something like this.

regardless, at this point i'm debating whether i'll go down there this weekend or not.  Not real excited about going to vegas right now.   also what the #### compelled somme guy to open fire on a concert?   story makes no sense at all

 
tommyboy said:
regardless, at this point i'm debating whether i'll go down there this weekend or not.  Not real excited about going to vegas right now.   also what the #### compelled somme guy to open fire on a concert?   story makes no sense at all
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I would venture to say this weekend would probably be the safest time to be in Vegas if that was your concern.

What compels someone to do this? Nothing any of us can relate to but if you want to cause a mass casualty event, we are primed for these things across the US. Very surprised something like this hasn't happened before now. Think of any major city and anything that they do that ends in "fest". Thousands of people cordoned off in a small area with no easy means of egress. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

 
Just saw an interview with a brother.  That is a guy in total disbelieve.  My  brother was just a guy no signs for any of this.

 
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Just terrible that we have nut jobs like this amongst us.  Just a bunch of people having fun and listening to some good music.  Disgusting.  

 
Been waiting to post something.   My sister lives in Vegas was at the Mandalay Bay.  Not at the concert but gambling.  That is her regular spot.   I just talking to her and she said it was a scene of total chaos as nobody inside knew what was going on at first.  Then police were rushing in and people started running out thinking maybe a bomb went off and not knowing there was a mass shooting outside.   When she got outside she said she thought for sure a bomb had gone off seeing all the people wounded and then running. One of her friends is a dealer there told her that when people realized something bad was going on  some  were grabbing chips off tables and buckets of chips from slot players  and running outside.

 
T's & P's to everyone involved. Absolutely heart broken to hear of the number of deaths (so far) and injuries. :(

 
It's always dangerous to cast a wide net to try to cover all the people who do this sort of thing, but I'll say I think there is a subset of person that this guy likely falls into. I'm going to guess his target was chosen out of convenience and likelihood of success, instead of an agenda against the band/fans/etc. These folks tend to off themselves at the end, whereas politically/racially/religiously motivated folks seem a bit more likely to stick around for the aftermath. 

IMO these types live a mundane day to day life. Feel insignificant, detached from society. Likely resent those around them for various things... and through mental issues builds this into a delusion of detachment. 

Something generally radicalizes/triggers them on some level... and they decide to end their life, but on the way out they seek that recognition and validation that they are missing in life. They want to be someone... to emerge from the shadows of obscurity. These shooting sprees offer a means to make everyone acknowledge their existence. There definitely seems to be a "high score" factor... with planning centered on taking as many people with them as possible.  

This guy definitely put a lot of planning into going for as many casualties as possible.... Not sure how you identify and intercept these sort of plans. 

 
Da Guru said:
Been waiting to post something.   My sister lives in Vegas was at the Mandalay Bay.  Not at the concert but gambling.  That is her regular spot.   I just talking to her and she said it was a scene of total chaos as nobody inside knew what was going on at first.  Then police were rushing in and people started running out thinking maybe a bomb went off and not knowing there was a mass shooting outside.   When she got outside she said she thought for sure a bomb had gone off seeing all the people wounded and then running. One of her friends is a dealer there told her that when people realized something bad was going on  some  were grabbing chips off tables and buckets of chips from slot players  and running outside.
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Despicable.... 

 
Da Guru said:
 One of her friends is a dealer there told her that when people realized something bad was going on  some  were grabbing chips off tables and buckets of chips from slot players  and running outside.
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completely of topic, but I could image this is a major problem for the casino in chaos situations. I thought about that when there was the shooting threat after the fight that the Seattle FB player was involved in. IDK if I was a dealer, do I save myself or save the table? 

 
glvsav37 said:
completely of topic, but I could image this is a major problem for the casino in chaos situations. I thought about that when there was the shooting threat after the fight that the Seattle FB player was involved in. IDK if I was a dealer, do I save myself or save the table? 
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I mean, those casinos have cameras everywhere. I reckon all those people that stole #### are going to face charges.

 
glvsav37 said:
completely of topic, but I could image this is a major problem for the casino in chaos situations. I thought about that when there was the shooting threat after the fight that the Seattle FB player was involved in. IDK if I was a dealer, do I save myself or save the table? 
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save yourself.   the casino profits/loss is irrelvant

 
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