MAC_32
Footballguy
I disagree, Battle has looked just like he has in the past - replacement level.
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Mathews On Short Leash (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter just_want_2_win
- Start date
two_dollars
Footballguy
Here is the bottom line. Battle is not on Mathews talent level. There will be a time, soon, when Battle will not be getting the 1st downs. Mathews will come in, and he will show he IS better. They will say Mathews made changes, learned his lesson, blah blah, and becomes lead back again.
two_dollars
Footballguy
14 for 61, 4.35 ypc
15 for 39, 2.60 ypc
15 for 39, 2.60 ypc
DevilintheDetail
Footballguy
Didn't Matthews get almost all of his carries in the 4th quarter once the defense had worn down?
shadyridr
Footballguy
No he got all his carries in the 4th quarter when the defense was geared up to stop the run(lol I love how people can spin things both ways to prove their point)
MAC_32
Footballguy
Forget the spin machine, the eye test matches the numbers for Battle - not good. There's a library to reference for Mathews' numbers, not just one game, and that catelog says he is a significantly better option than Battle.
I have no idea how that process works, but did Norv officially give that depth chart to the team website? Isn't it possible this is simply a reflection of how the last game went and a meaningless part of the website is being updated?
John 14:6
Jesus is Lord!
Matthews AND Battle may both be worth starting this week...I'm still steaming from week 4. I personally have no idea how to take this. All I know is NO is a very juicy match-up, which makes Matthews a must start. Is Norv still 'sending a message' or is there more there that we don;t know about?Why so upset. Wasn't Battle #2 last week? He got the start and lots of work, I would take this as a good sign.@*#**@ Norv!!!
need2know
Footballguy
that's crazy. I own battle and hope to get some points out of him but I understand its a short time thing. cannot believe they changed the depth chart. its a 50/50 split at best for battle and prob more like a 60/40 Mathews with gl looks to battleI have no idea how that process works, but did Norv officially give that depth chart to the team website? Isn't it possible this is simply a reflection of how the last game went and a meaningless part of the website is being updated?
need2know
Footballguy
the eye test doesn't matter. Mathews can have his 40-50 more yards. I want the tds. battle looking like a great start this week
aggie_dave
Footballguy
Maybe I have no clue what I'm talking about, but I thought the official website depth charts all came from what teams submit to the NFL. I'm happy to hear from someone if you know I'm wrong. If that is true, this looks like a pretty good sign for Battle. I don't remember Norv having a history of playing a lot of cat and mouse.I have no idea how that process works, but did Norv officially give that depth chart to the team website? Isn't it possible this is simply a reflection of how the last game went and a meaningless part of the website is being updated?
shadyridr
Footballguy
You dont remember LAST WEEK?Maybe I have no clue what I'm talking about, but I thought the official website depth charts all came from what teams submit to the NFL. I'm happy to hear from someone if you know I'm wrong. If that is true, this looks like a pretty good sign for Battle. I don't remember Norv having a history of playing a lot of cat and mouse.I have no idea how that process works, but did Norv officially give that depth chart to the team website? Isn't it possible this is simply a reflection of how the last game went and a meaningless part of the website is being updated?
silentcoach
Footballguy
Mathews owners sure are bitter, and I get it.
You can say all you want about his talent but he in deep manure if he fumbles in the next two games, and this is a risk Mathews owners need to absorb and reflect in their evaluation of Mathews.
You can say all you want about his talent but he in deep manure if he fumbles in the next two games, and this is a risk Mathews owners need to absorb and reflect in their evaluation of Mathews.
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In thinking about the situation some more, this is very likely "official" and could be a part of the new Mathews narrative -- him being eased back in after his injury...http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/oct/01/chargers-easing-ryan-mathews-action/Maybe I have no clue what I'm talking about, but I thought the official website depth charts all came from what teams submit to the NFL. I'm happy to hear from someone if you know I'm wrong. If that is true, this looks like a pretty good sign for Battle. I don't remember Norv having a history of playing a lot of cat and mouse.I have no idea how that process works, but did Norv officially give that depth chart to the team website? Isn't it possible this is simply a reflection of how the last game went and a meaningless part of the website is being updated?
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
All I can say is..yikes. Not sure if I want to buy-low anymore.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
It's all about the touchdowns, those win games.
Is it?:
1. The Ballad of Jackie Battle is here to stay;
- or -
2. Mathews comes back real good, real fast?
Is it?:
1. The Ballad of Jackie Battle is here to stay;
- or -
2. Mathews comes back real good, real fast?
sporthenry
Footballguy
Not sure it is worth the gamble to buy low at this point b/c most owners won't panic but if an owner panics or he has a few more bad games, I think he is definitely worth a buy low. As SD gets into a playoff battle, they will need Matthews to run the ball and it isn't so much what can you do for me now but what can you do for me in the playoffs where Matthews has a fairly favorable schedule.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
should of fired AJ smith 2 seasons ago
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
According to the Chargers, Jackie Battle vaulted Ryan Mathews on the team's official depth chart because "he just started last week, so that's why he's there."
In other words, it's semantics. Although the Chargers' actions have officially gone beyond simple message sending, it's clear they're not on the verge of a sea change in the backfield. Battle's big week came against a non-competitive Chiefs team, and the 29-year-old spare part simply isn't talented enough to out-carry Mathews when games are on the line. Beat writer Michael Gehlken "wouldn't read into" the depth chart shenanigans, and believes it's "likely only a matter of time" before Mathews moves back ahead of Battle. However, Gehlken does expect Battle to remain involved in Week 5, perhaps as the goal-line back. That would be unideal for Mathews' fantasy value, but he's simply too talented not to re-emerge as a RB1, and soon. Mathews remains the top buy-low candidate in all of fantasy football.
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5603/ryan-mathews
In other words, it's semantics. Although the Chargers' actions have officially gone beyond simple message sending, it's clear they're not on the verge of a sea change in the backfield. Battle's big week came against a non-competitive Chiefs team, and the 29-year-old spare part simply isn't talented enough to out-carry Mathews when games are on the line. Beat writer Michael Gehlken "wouldn't read into" the depth chart shenanigans, and believes it's "likely only a matter of time" before Mathews moves back ahead of Battle. However, Gehlken does expect Battle to remain involved in Week 5, perhaps as the goal-line back. That would be unideal for Mathews' fantasy value, but he's simply too talented not to re-emerge as a RB1, and soon. Mathews remains the top buy-low candidate in all of fantasy football.
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5603/ryan-mathews
Donsmith753
Footballguy
Am I crazy for not being concerned at all by this?
Tau837
Footballguy
I'm a little concerned, but not because of Mathews or Battle... because of A.J. Smith. I think he was behind what happened last week, and he has shown extreme stubbornness in sticking to his views, to the possible detriment of the team, in the past. And it doesn't seem like Norv is able to stand up to him.That said, I think Mathews is still likely to finish the season as a top 10 RB.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Ewart? typo on the birth certificate?My man's real name is Ewart Haron Battle. Go walk in traffic Ewart.
Should you be concerned a 29 yr old journeyman is going to take the job of a 24 yr old who averaged over 100 total YPG last season?Norv Turner is one of the worst coaches in the NFL, so anythings possible, but it will guarantee Turner is fired before next season.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Norv & AJ are a packaged deal, unless the Owner tell AJ smith you can stay but Norv has to go.AJ wants a chump he can push around.
JHuber77
Footballguy
Something had to happen (other than the fumble)for it to come to this. For those suggesting that Matthews is being eased back in from injury, broken bones don't necessitate having to ease someone back in like an ACL or something like that. Matthews had to have said something or did something that either Norv Turner or more importantly AJ Smith didn't like. It could't have been just the fumble in week 3 or dating back to last year. Norv Turner even stated before Matthews broke his collarbone that the Chargers would give everything Matthews could handle when referring to him being the workhorse back. Even if the fumble costed the Chargers a 14 point swing as some suggest, they still would have lost by 10 points. Rivers went 21/38 for 173 and 2 INT's. This whole situation doesn't make a bit of sense as Matthews is clearly the better runner. This whole situation reminds me of Peyton Hillis in Denver. Come to find out Hillis allegedly hit on McDaniels wife and that was the reason why his playing time was decreased and was ultimately traded to Cleveland. Something definately smells 
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boonesfarm4me
Footballguy
This is silly
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Fireballer
Footballguy
This is what I've been thinking since Smith's comments last week. Mathews probably gave Smith an "FU" after Smith confronts Mathews about the fumble against the Falcons. In retaliation, Smith gives Mathews a really big "FU" by riding the Battle train this week and the near future.Something had to happen (other than the fumble)for it to come to this. For those suggesting that Matthews is being eased back in from injury, broken bones don't necessitate having to ease someone back in like an ACL or something like that. Matthews had to have said something or did something that either Norv Turner or more importantly AJ Smith didn't like. It could't have been just the fumble in week 3 or dating back to last year. Norv Turner even stated before Matthews broke his collarbone that the Chargers would give everything Matthews could handle when referring to him being the workhorse back. Even if the fumble costed the Chargers a 14 point swing as some suggest, they still would have lost by 10 points. Rivers went 21/38 for 173 and 2 INT's. This whole situation doesn't make a bit of sense as Matthews is clearly the better runner. This whole situation reminds me of Peyton Hillis in Denver. Come to find out Hillis allegedly hit on McDaniels wife and that was the reason why his playing time was decreased and was ultimately traded to Cleveland. Something definately smells
silentcoach
Footballguy
The reactions in this thread crack me up a little.
All Mathews owners can do is understand that Mathews' ppg may have taken a hit (and can take more of a hit if he fumbles), and move on. There is nothing you can do about the moaning and groaning. We can only start, sit, or trade players. Make your decision, because yelling at Norv won't change anything.
All Mathews owners can do is understand that Mathews' ppg may have taken a hit (and can take more of a hit if he fumbles), and move on. There is nothing you can do about the moaning and groaning. We can only start, sit, or trade players. Make your decision, because yelling at Norv won't change anything.
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Badgers Fan
Footballguy
I just dealt him for Ridley and Vernon Davis. Feel like I lost though. Good bye one headache, hello to another.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
>>>It was Mathews’ 11th fumble in what can barely be considered two NFL seasons. It was his sixth lost fumble, the third inside the red zone. ...
“I am very concerned, and it has to stop,” the Chargers’ personnel boss said. “I believe you can improve in ball security. And no one works any harder in trying to get better than Ryan. However, if it continues he will play less.” ...
...“Let me cut to the chase on chronic fumblers,” Smith said. “Here’s my view on it ...” ...
...“Extremely talented players like Ryan get multiple opportunities to improve,” Smith continued. “What happens to fumblers is, first, they play less. Second, if it continues while they’re playing on a limited basis, then you don’t play for a while and you get to sit and think about it. ...
... “Third, when you get the call to go back on the field and the fumbling continues, then you will be somebody else’s fumbler.” ...
... Turner on Monday said as much, saying “There are certain situations where we will limit his exposure.” That certainly means near the goal line. (Ouch, said fantasy footballers across the land.) ...
... Mathews is averaging a fumble every 42½ times he touches the ball, losing a fumble every 78 touches.
Can he lose the propensity to lose the ball? Sure. Others have, though among the list of backs people throw out as guys who chronically fumbled early in their careers and then stopped, only Tiki Barber (with 11) has anywhere near as many fumbles through his first 467 touches.<<<
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/sep/27/acee-chargers-cant-have-infinite-tolerance-mathews/?page=2#article
Just wondering if people have seen all of this interview and are aware of the number of fumbles?
Mathews' career could be on the brink. With the Chargers' schedule he could be Top-8, or he might just be getting much more time on the bench and even a ticket out of town with just one more fumble. What a role of the dice.
“I am very concerned, and it has to stop,” the Chargers’ personnel boss said. “I believe you can improve in ball security. And no one works any harder in trying to get better than Ryan. However, if it continues he will play less.” ...
...“Let me cut to the chase on chronic fumblers,” Smith said. “Here’s my view on it ...” ...
...“Extremely talented players like Ryan get multiple opportunities to improve,” Smith continued. “What happens to fumblers is, first, they play less. Second, if it continues while they’re playing on a limited basis, then you don’t play for a while and you get to sit and think about it. ...
... “Third, when you get the call to go back on the field and the fumbling continues, then you will be somebody else’s fumbler.” ...
... Turner on Monday said as much, saying “There are certain situations where we will limit his exposure.” That certainly means near the goal line. (Ouch, said fantasy footballers across the land.) ...
... Mathews is averaging a fumble every 42½ times he touches the ball, losing a fumble every 78 touches.
Can he lose the propensity to lose the ball? Sure. Others have, though among the list of backs people throw out as guys who chronically fumbled early in their careers and then stopped, only Tiki Barber (with 11) has anywhere near as many fumbles through his first 467 touches.<<<
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/sep/27/acee-chargers-cant-have-infinite-tolerance-mathews/?page=2#article
Just wondering if people have seen all of this interview and are aware of the number of fumbles?
Mathews' career could be on the brink. With the Chargers' schedule he could be Top-8, or he might just be getting much more time on the bench and even a ticket out of town with just one more fumble. What a role of the dice.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Dude its the first post and entire reason for this thread
Wadsworth
Footballguy
Seriously?
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Just a general question to the people who think he's a good "buy low"--because I think he could be. I don't want to ask specifically who to trade for him as this is not the Assistant Coach forum--but assume that I'm a guy who wants to land him. What is a reasonable offer for him right now? Does it take a WR1 to land him--or do you think offering a WR2 based on the present situation could actually work? As of this moment--how far has Matthews stock fallen? Nobody in any of my leagues has traded him so I'm not sure what kinds of offers to put out.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Ok, got it, a poor attempt at a bump. I think the above comment was where I was really going.
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Cawbird
Footballguy
I think the price will dramatically change, one way or the other after the New Orleans game. Matthews could get the bulk of the carries and Battle only gets the goal-line work (sans 2011 Tolbert). That will drive Matthews' price way up. Or.......it could be a true split and Battle happens to start the game again. That will scare the Matthews' owner and you can probably trade a WR2/3 for him. Just don't know which way it will go this Sunday. They could both have strong games and we have no further clarity on the situation!!!So if you have both.............do you run them both out there this week until things clear up? I know that the Assistant Coach forum police will attack the question, so I will leave it at that.
VaTerp
Footballguy
I'm a Mathews owner in two leagues. In one he was drafted as my RB2 behind McCoy. I need WR help but would need someone I valued as a strong WR1 to give him up.In my auction I really got Mathews thinking he would be my RB1. In this league I would deal Mathews but it would have to be package offer that I don't think I'd get from anyone. That to say, I think it highly depends on the roster and situation of individual Mathews owners. Someone who got him a little cheaper and/or have hit on low round picks or guys like Spiller/Morris, etc. are probably much more likely to move him at a lower cost if it will help them at another position.And owners who are panicking might be willing to sell him for someone you view as a sell high. For owners like me Mathews is likely to stay on the roster because rightly or wrongly (and it doesnt look good now), I value his upside too much and it's too important a part of what I see as my path to success in FF this year. If you had the faith to draft him and have gone through these two weeks you feel you've invested a lot and and really waiting/hoping for the ROI.If I were looking to acquire Mathews I would probably offer a WR2 who I was not too high on and/or maybe package a RB like IDK Leshoure or somebody. I would start low then depending on how much you want him sweeten the deal.My
as a double Mathews owner.
Sweetness_34
Footballguy
Drafting Matthews at 1.04 was as bad as drafting CJ0k in the 1st round
Muahahaha
Footballguy
YPC means little. The effectiveness of the run means everything. If Battle was getting his runs on 3rd and 1, 2 yards is great. If Matthews is getting his runs on 3rd and 6, 5 yards is bad.After four weeks, Football Outsiders has Battle the 7th best RB in the league in terms of DVOA. Battle's success rate on runs has been 53%, which is 11th out of the 35 running backs Outsiders ranked. By any objective measure, Battle is getting it done for San Diego right now.By contrast, Matthews' DVOA is -11.0%, lower than replacement value. And he has fumbled.The stats say that the starters' job certainly looks like Battle's to lose right now.EDIT: Also, Battle's YPC for 2012 is better, even factoring in that game. 5.1 vs 4.4.
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JHuber77
Footballguy
Nobody drafted him at 1.04 unless you drafted in July before his injury
shadyridr
Footballguy
sounds like a legit stat to use
Wadsworth
Footballguy
Luckily Battle was barely able to beat out Tashard Choice at 9th. Clearly the Bills need to sit Fred Jackson. Also, Ronnie Brown ranks number one for receiving RBs, I guess the Battle/Brown combo would be epic.Love the stat butchering on tiny samples used to draw conclusions.
Muahahaha
Footballguy
Well, what you need to know about DVOA, it that it is heavily biased by the team in the case of running backs. So, it is not always a great tool at comparing RBs on different teams. They have different blockers, QBs, etc.Houston RBs, for example, almost always have higher DVOAs than Arizona RBs, no matter who the running back is.However, DVOA is very good at comparing RBs on the same team, because in that case you are controlling for the individual team situation.In your example of Tashard Choice, it is interesting that CJ Spiller is the number one DVOA back in the league. DVOA would suggest that Choice is a worse performing back in Buffalo's system.Another example is Shonn Greene vs Bilal Powell. Shonn Greene has a -30DVOA vs 12 Powell. That would suggest Powell has been better.I've never seen a RB hold on to his job with DVOA when there was another RB on his team with a significantly better DVOA. I use it to predict when a change is going to occur. Hence, I have Powell on my bench, but haven't considered Choice. Spiller has clearly been the better back.That is the thought process. I picked up Battle because DVOA as well as the actual use of Battle by Turner has suggested he could get a lot more carries this year.Luckily Battle was barely able to beat out Tashard Choice at 9th. Clearly the Bills need to sit Fred Jackson. Also, Ronnie Brown ranks number one for receiving RBs, I guess the Battle/Brown combo would be epic.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Battle's YPC is probably largely inflated by that game he went 3/58, no?. Count me in as someone who thinks Battle is only a minimal threat to Mathews. He's still the same near 30 year old back I watched plod away on KC last year. I'm assuming SD would like to keep winning and I'd also assume using your most talented offense player will lead to those wins. Mathews and DMC are prime buy-low candidates right now.
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