You say were following this entire Cutler story from the beginning. I guess than you forgot about the part were Cutler asked for a trade once Jeremy Bates was fired. That's what started the squabble.
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McDaniels fired (1 Viewer)
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Utter Chaos
Footballguy
That's why I said "possibilites" before the list. The Cowboys won the Super Bowl despite Switzer, not because of him. He rode Jimmy Johnson's coat-tails for a few years until reality set in. True, the players were getting older in Switzers last year but no key players were injured and the big three were still between 28 and 31. Gailey took the same team and won 10 games the following season despite Aikman missing 5 games and no Herschel Walker.Maybe Switzer isn't as bad as McDaniel but he wasn't a good coach despite his record.
Gopher State
Footballguy
Here's to hoping Denver hires Chilly as their next coach. 
VaTerp
Footballguy
That's certainly the popular opinion and I know Switzer became something of a national joke. And I won't say he was a great NFL coach but I wouldn't say he was a bad one either.The guy won 3 national championships, has one of the highest winning percentages in college football history, has a winning record against the likes of Tom Osborne, Woody Hayes, Joe Paterno, Jimmy Johnson, and Bobby Bowden. In the NFL he took over a team loaded with talent but you still have to win and he did a pretty decent job in going to the NFC Championship his first year and winning the Super Bowl his second joining Johnson as only the 2nd coach EVER to win rings in NCAA and the NFL.
Nobody in the world is that lucky. You don't have that kind of resume without being able to coach a lil bit. Again, I'm not going to say he was a great or even good as a NFL coach but Josh McDaniels does not deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Barry Switzer.
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Why the hate? After what we've endured for the past 2 years, don't we deserve to NOT be the laughingstock of the league for at least a little while??Here's to hoping Denver hires Chilly as their next coach.
Instinctive
Footballguy
More importantly, what are the implications for the Orton and LLoyd juggernaut in the coming weeks, with the RBs Coach being named interim head coach?
GoFishTN
Footballguy
gregjcross
Footballguy
You know, I hated him after his first training camp, then I couldnt believe it when he was 6-0; then I watched as two guys (one from Den and another from Cutler country, CHicago) made a mid season bet that DEN wouldn't even make the playoffs, which seemed unfathomable when they were 6-0 on Oct 14th or whatever. Then they just IMPLODED and it was like...."Now that was the guy I thought he was." Then the idiot drafts Tim Tebow round 1 in April --who everyone knew would not play!-- and I knew his fate was sealed.Oh and his Wikipedia entry says "Position - Unemployed" But i actually think they didn't as of yet, expel him from the building. So he still has health insurance.
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Did you see the 30/30 Marcus Dupree? Barry Switzer messed up the next great thing!!!
VaTerp
Footballguy
Yeah, I actually thought about that but the guy's resume is still damn impressive. Period.
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Freaky Styley
Footballguy
You forgot about the 5th round pick the Bears received which turned into Pro Bowl alternate WR Johnny Knox.I thought after the trade the Broncos got the better deal but considering it was the first in a series of actions that led to the end of the McDaniels era the Cutler trade was a mistake. The Broncos should have found a head coach that didn't desire to purge the roster of productive players that didn't mesh with his personality and/or scheme. Fix the defense, keep Shanahan and the 2009 Broncos are a playoff team.
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
Ray Rhodes's one putrid year (I know it was 8-8) with GB comes to mind.
Dizzy
Footballguy
The dude that took over for Bum Phillips in Houston back in 1980 or '81... Bile?
fatness
Footballguy
When did Matt Millen coach?
ANd that is the point that the McDaniels haters just gloss over. Cutler was already upset before the Broncos looked at Cassell. The reason why they looked was because Cutler was pissy that Bates was fired. That said McDaniels had to go. He was losing the fan base and in this economy you cannot lose the fan base. Will be interesting who they bring in. I would love to see Bill Cowher in to turn around this franchise.
Hoss_Cartwright
Footballguy
Offensive coordinator impersonating a head coach someone on ESPN radio said. Why did he need 3 qbs? (Orton, Quinn, and Tebow). He should have drafted an impact player instead of drafting another QB (tebow). Hillis for Quinn? I can't say that I'm disappointed to see Little Hoody Jr. get fired 
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squistion
Footballguy
No, that isn't accurate - there is no "they" here, it was solely Josh McDaniels. McDaniels wanted Cassel, irrespective of Cutler's attitude. Cutler was upset and complained to Bowlen about Bates but was never given a chance with McDaniels, McDaniels wanted his handpicked guy in - there are no reports that Bowlen asked McDaniels to shop Cutler or to approach New England for a trade. Cutler was never given the benefit of the doubt with McDaniels, McDaniels tried to get Cassel and then lied about it to Cutler. Cutler handled the situation poorly but was not responsible for creating the situation in the first place.ANd that is the point that the McDaniels haters just gloss over. Cutler was already upset before the Broncos looked at Cassell. The reason why they looked was because Cutler was pissy that Bates was fired.
That said McDaniels had to go. He was losing the fan base and in this economy you cannot lose the fan base. Will be interesting who they bring in. I would love to see Bill Cowher in to turn around this franchise.
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bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Broncos are not even close, Detroit Lions down?shredhead said:Why the hate? After what we've endured for the past 2 years, don't we deserve to NOT be the laughingstock of the league for at least a little while??Here's to hoping Denver hires Chilly as their next coach.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I think people should remember that lots of talented coordinators struggle as head coaches. Point being, while I certainly don't see how Josh's tenure in Denver is defensible, I also think it's very foolhardy to throw him out as an NFL mind and dismiss the possibility that he'll have a long and fruitful career as an NFL coordinator. Given his age, that also means he may well get another crack at head coaching, too.
squistion
Footballguy
Yeah, you would think so. But the same thing was said about Les Stekel after he was fired from the Vikings after a 3-13 record in 1984 and he never was a head coach again. It will depend on how long the negatives about McDaniels remains in people's minds. If he can convince prospective teams that he has learned from his experience with the Broncos and has matured, then he could well get another shot, but there is a lot of baggage from the debacle in Denver that he will carry with him from this point forward.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I don't disagree. But to me that will be more about how he comports himself, and what went on behind the scenes versus what he did on the sidelines. I'm not privy to what Bowlen and the players really think of him, nor do I know how malicious he was in terms of his intent with the video taping, etc... but as an Xs and Os guy, he'll get more work.When the Eagles hired Marty Mornhinweg after his disaster in Detroit, I cringed a bit. But he's turned into quite an effective lieutenant for Reid and has taken on an ever-increasing amount of responsibility. I think one of the things a lot of people forget is that what makes a great head coach is not directly correlated with what makes a great coordinator. It's an entirely different basket of responsibilities and, therefore, requires a different set of skills.
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
Bronco fan of 40 plus years and I was one of the biggest McDaniels haters after the Cutler mess went down and I took a lot of grief that I needed to take a step back and give him a chance. But the team is pretty much at the worst case scenaro that I could have imagined some 2 years ago right now.
This timing of the firing was done IMO because Bohlen could see he was losing the fans. which means a ton of lost $$$. The last home game was nowhere near sold out and I can guarantee the last 2 home games of the season would have seen a half-filled stadium. This stops that. The fans will come out and rally behind this team and Coach Studesville even though the games are meaningless.
This team needs to re-sign Bailey ASAP if anything, because he is about the only leader this team has right now. Other than that, this team needs to get younger on defense like yesterday, which probably means Dawkins is gone at season's end. I think Denver has a 1st, two 2nds, a 3rd, a 6th and a seventh. Of course the team's 4th round pick was traded by McDaniels to get Maroney-- great move there Josh
and the other 6th round pick goes to Cleveland for taking that terrible ( 
) RB Hillis off our hands. If there is a lockout, this team is easily 2 drafts away (at a min.) from being competitive and the draft and FA needs to be all about the defense--which is what McDaniels was supposed to do 2 years ago.
The sad part about all of this is Josh will get another job. He will be just fine. Heck, he will probably get another HC coach job down the road. So all the last two years amount to for him were a training experience for a future job, but all us fans are left with is a franchise that was once great, now in a complete mess. It is going to be really interesting to see who is brought in to fix this.
This timing of the firing was done IMO because Bohlen could see he was losing the fans. which means a ton of lost $$$. The last home game was nowhere near sold out and I can guarantee the last 2 home games of the season would have seen a half-filled stadium. This stops that. The fans will come out and rally behind this team and Coach Studesville even though the games are meaningless.
This team needs to re-sign Bailey ASAP if anything, because he is about the only leader this team has right now. Other than that, this team needs to get younger on defense like yesterday, which probably means Dawkins is gone at season's end. I think Denver has a 1st, two 2nds, a 3rd, a 6th and a seventh. Of course the team's 4th round pick was traded by McDaniels to get Maroney-- great move there Josh
and the other 6th round pick goes to Cleveland for taking that terrible ( ) RB Hillis off our hands. If there is a lockout, this team is easily 2 drafts away (at a min.) from being competitive and the draft and FA needs to be all about the defense--which is what McDaniels was supposed to do 2 years ago.The sad part about all of this is Josh will get another job. He will be just fine. Heck, he will probably get another HC coach job down the road. So all the last two years amount to for him were a training experience for a future job, but all us fans are left with is a franchise that was once great, now in a complete mess. It is going to be really interesting to see who is brought in to fix this.
VaTerp
Footballguy
Because ITS NOT TRUE. And I'm not a "McDaniels hater." I just call it like I see it. The guys record speaks for itself. He's young and obviously knows how to run an offense so he will find a job in the NFL soon and could very well get another shot as a HC down the road. But he clearly botched this job from the very beginning and just dug a deeper and deeper hole. That's true, no matter how much the "McDaniels apologist" want to spin things.http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3995461
That said McDaniels had to go. He was losing the fan base and in this economy you cannot lose the fan base. Will be interesting who they bring in. I would love to see Bill Cowher in to turn around this franchise.
"Yes, I was upset when they let Jeremy go because Mr. Bowlen had assured me when Mike [shanahan] was fired that the offense wouldn't change because it was the second-ranked offense in football," Cutler said. "But I didn't push for a trade then."
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Shutout
Footballguy
Having never coached, I can't say, but I imagine you hve to be pretty good at a lot of things AND be willing to sacrifice like crazy JUST TO GET A HEAD COACHING JOB. So it didn't look pretty and didn't end pretty here for McDaniels but I definitely wouldn't categorize him as terrible.
Every time I want to say "this guy is bad" or "good riddence", I look at the Browns and Belichick. If I had a dollar for every fan that has probably looked at that situation and thought "What if", I would own an NFL team.
Every time I want to say "this guy is bad" or "good riddence", I look at the Browns and Belichick. If I had a dollar for every fan that has probably looked at that situation and thought "What if", I would own an NFL team.
dhockster
Footballguy
No, I don't think so.Dom coached two expansion franchises and they were in worse shape when he left then when he got there.Dom is a great defensive coordinator, but a bad head coach. He had young offensive talent in both jobs anddid nothing to develop that young talent in either Carolina or Houston.
massraider
Footballguy
I am so enjoying your McDaniels defenses this past week. 'Hillis wasn't his kind of back''he was losing the fan base'---Love it. It implies, 'Hey, wasn't a terrible coach, but the fans didn't like him, and in this economy......" If it wasn't for stinking' Lehman Brothers, this guy mighta had a chance to really implement his schemes!!ANd that is the point that the McDaniels haters just gloss over. Cutler was already upset before the Broncos looked at Cassell. The reason why they looked was because Cutler was pissy that Bates was fired. That said McDaniels had to go. He was losing the fan base and in this economy you cannot lose the fan base. Will be interesting who they bring in. I would love to see Bill Cowher in to turn around this franchise.
His staff was caught cheating, and he lost 17 of the last 21. That's called losing games, not the fan base.Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
I'm not a FL guy, or a Tebow guy. But I think the real issue is that NFL coaches don't know how to use QBs like him. Some creativity at the NFL coaching level would be nice to see every 100 years or so.
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Dexter Manley
Footballguy
Richie Pettibone (Redskins) deserves at least an honorable mention here.
Utter Chaos
Footballguy
My bad, Millen wasn't the coach. He did drive the team into the ground from 2001 to 2008 though as President and CEO. They had a 31 and 97 record during that time including an 0-16 season. That's an average season of 4-12 for 8 years.He drafted players in the first round like 2002 QB Joey Harrington, 2003 WR Charles Rogers (one spot ahead of Andre Johnson), 2004 WR Roy Williams, 2005 WR Mike Williams. He finally got one right in 2007 with Calvin Johnson.
ROBOPUNTER
Footballguy
Are you confusing yourself? It seems like everyone else is responding to your topic, except you. What did Barry Switzer do to drive the Cowboys into the ground (faster than McD)?
Jagerbomber
Footballguy
Two questions
Where does McD-bag go next?
How crappy is Bellichick's coaching tree?
Where does McD-bag go next?
How crappy is Bellichick's coaching tree?
Well it may have been true.. according to Peter King"I heard one other interesting thing Sunday: Cutler asked for a trade shortly after the Broncos lost offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates -- Cutler's confidant -- to USC after the season. So maybe both sides need to go into marriage counseling here."Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...l#ixzz17SiyTV5PBecause ITS NOT TRUE. And I'm not a "McDaniels hater." I just call it like I see it. The guys record speaks for itself. He's young and obviously knows how to run an offense so he will find a job in the NFL soon and could very well get another shot as a HC down the road. But he clearly botched this job from the very beginning and just dug a deeper and deeper hole. That's true, no matter how much the "McDaniels apologist" want to spin things.http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3995461ANd that is the point that the McDaniels haters just gloss over. Cutler was already upset before the Broncos looked at Cassell. The reason why they looked was because Cutler was pissy that Bates was fired.
That said McDaniels had to go. He was losing the fan base and in this economy you cannot lose the fan base. Will be interesting who they bring in. I would love to see Bill Cowher in to turn around this franchise.
"Yes, I was upset when they let Jeremy go because Mr. Bowlen had assured me when Mike [shanahan] was fired that the offense wouldn't change because it was the second-ranked offense in football," Cutler said. "But I didn't push for a trade then."
Bottom line: it McDaniels is done and this move did not get McDaniels fired, his spygate II and losing the fans was his downfall. He just never reached the fanbase that he should have. But in reading reports sounds like he did not handle people with in the organization well.
People did not complain about the Hillis trade at the time of the trade. I had hopes for Brady Quinn that could replace Orton..(before Tebow.. and I was pissed he drafted Tebow). Look McDaniels has made mistakes for sure. Trading a 1st for short DB then cutting him. But the trades of Marshall and Cutler were not huge mistakes. But what he did with those picks has hurt Denver that will take years to recover. And the Defence is still in the same sorry shape as it was when he took over.
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My reaction to this thread and the media coverage I have seen is that it's entirely misguided to try to point to any one piece of McDaniels' tenure as the downfall. Enough debating if Cutler was his fault and the impact of the videotaping.
As a lifelong Broncos fan, I think the real story here is the complete destruction of the Broncos identity in such a short amount of time.
I know Shanahan's post-super bowl struggles, but two years ago I still saw the Broncos as dangerous--- everyone in the league knew that we could come up with a scheme to beat the Pats or the Chargers or Colts on any given day. Everyone knew the Broncos could run the ball. As a homer, I have felt for 20 years that I rooted for a feared, exciting team... even if it often had huge holes (a soft spot in my heart for generally horrible special teams, reaches on free agent signings and early draft picks, and teams that started the season strong and then faded). Reeves and Shanahan represent different styles, but this team has been an AFC power.
Doesn't everyone see that what is left now is a shell of a team with no identity? Seriously, what can you hang your hat on that McD was trying to build? The Orton misfit passing unit is McD's best result, and that didn't scare anyone or have any lasting power. The change of a franchise who wouldn't except "pretty good" to a team with no direction is his legacy.
As a lifelong Broncos fan, I think the real story here is the complete destruction of the Broncos identity in such a short amount of time.
I know Shanahan's post-super bowl struggles, but two years ago I still saw the Broncos as dangerous--- everyone in the league knew that we could come up with a scheme to beat the Pats or the Chargers or Colts on any given day. Everyone knew the Broncos could run the ball. As a homer, I have felt for 20 years that I rooted for a feared, exciting team... even if it often had huge holes (a soft spot in my heart for generally horrible special teams, reaches on free agent signings and early draft picks, and teams that started the season strong and then faded). Reeves and Shanahan represent different styles, but this team has been an AFC power.
Doesn't everyone see that what is left now is a shell of a team with no identity? Seriously, what can you hang your hat on that McD was trying to build? The Orton misfit passing unit is McD's best result, and that didn't scare anyone or have any lasting power. The change of a franchise who wouldn't except "pretty good" to a team with no direction is his legacy.
WRONG!!!!People complained for the entire 2009 season that Hillis wasn't being utilized properly. Maybe the complaining wasn't as loud when the trade happened because we felt that we might as well get something for Hillis since McDumarse is too stupid to use him. Dumarse was probably going to cut Hillis anyway. I for one am not surprised in the slightest at Hillis' production this year, because I paid attention in 2008.greenroom said:
faulkfan
Footballguy
In all fairness, Vick was a novelty. He couldn't throw a pass with any touch, he couldn't read defenses very well, and he wanted to run all the time. Now, he looks like he has a clue about reading a defense, still doesn't have a nice, soft pass, but gets it done when needed, and runs more judiciously. The guy might win the MVP and I think he fits the notion of a novelty turning into a consistent winner.
Wreckincrew
Footballguy
The dude pretended to eat crap from a diaper - no team in their right mind would even think about hiring him as a head coach after that.
S.K.A.
Trout Bum
Bill F'n Callahan.
Utter Chaos
Footballguy
I'm not saying he did or didn't drive the team into the ground faster than McDaniel. I said he was a possibility. I didn't spend a lot of time researching when I made the original list but now that I've examined it, it took Switzer about twice as long as it did McDaniel. Sorry I mentioned him since he didn't do it faster than McDaniel. If you re-read my reply to you in post #147 you'll see the reasons why some people could make the argument that he did "drive the team into the ground".ROBOPUNTER said:
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=12665130One of the reasons he got the job was because he knew Jerry Jones from when Switzer was an assistant coach at Arkansas. The drafts for Dallas from 1994 to 1997 did not produce many good players (exceptions: Larry Allen, and maybe Randall Godfrey and Dexter Coakley but nothing on the offensive side of the ball. Anybody remember Sherman Williams?). Jones probably had the most say in the draft picks but I'm sure Switzer contributed somewhat.
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Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
The team looks much better now.
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