MERGED thread to talk about Peyton's performance in the Super Bowl (2 Viewers)

[msudaisy26]

I asked before the Pats/Broncos game, if DEN beat NE but then got hammered in the SB, would that really add to Manning's resume and detract from Brady's. Now that that's happened, of those two, whose stock went up or dropped after this post season?

I am quite certain that one of the following is true, although I'm not sure which one:

1. Brady's and Manning's stock both dropped, but Brady's dropped more.

2. Manning's and Brady's stock both rose, but Manning's rose more.

3. Manning's stock rose while Brady's stock dropped.[/quote

I disagree I think Brady's stock stayed the same or might have dropped a tad

After today though Manning's stock dropped. There was never a question on how great of a regular season quarterback he was, the knock on him was the playoffs and he had a horrible performance on the biggest stage. It is all about what you do in the big games and whether it is fair or not doesn't matter the fact is Manning has a losing record in the playoffs and the quarterback gets too much credit whether they win or lose.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I asked before the Pats/Broncos game, if DEN beat NE but then got hammered in the SB, would that really add to Manning's resume and detract from Brady's. Now that that's happened, of those two, whose stock went up or dropped after this post season?

I am quite certain that one of the following is true, although I'm not sure which one:

1. Brady's and Manning's stock both dropped, but Brady's dropped more.

2. Manning's and Brady's stock both rose, but Manning's rose more.

3. Manning's stock rose while Brady's stock dropped.[/quote

I disagree I think Brady's stock stayed the same or might have dropped a tad

After today though Manning's stock dropped. There was never a question on how great of a regular season quarterback he was, the knock on him was the playoffs and he had a horrible performance on the biggest stage. It is all about what you do in the big games and whether it is fair or not doesn't matter the fact is Manning has a losing record in the playoffs and the quarterback gets too much credit whether they win or lose.

They both dropped about the same, if anything.

 

[msudaisy26]

I asked before the Pats/Broncos game, if DEN beat NE but then got hammered in the SB, would that really add to Manning's resume and detract from Brady's. Now that that's happened, of those two, whose stock went up or dropped after this post season?

I am quite certain that one of the following is true, although I'm not sure which one:

1. Brady's and Manning's stock both dropped, but Brady's dropped more.

2. Manning's and Brady's stock both rose, but Manning's rose more.

3. Manning's stock rose while Brady's stock dropped.[/quote

I disagree I think Brady's stock stayed the same or might have dropped a tad

After today though Manning's stock dropped. There was never a question on how great of a regular season quarterback he was, the knock on him was the playoffs and he had a horrible performance on the biggest stage. It is all about what you do in the big games and whether it is fair or not doesn't matter the fact is Manning has a losing record in the playoffs and the quarterback gets too much credit whether they win or lose.

They both dropped about the same, if anything.

I don't think so a lot of people give Brady a pass because he had a lack of weapons and still got his team to the AFC title game.

 

[ptsteelers]

Simple question:

If you put the "greatest QB of all time" (whoever you think that is) in place of Peyton tonight, would the result have been different?

I'd vote yes with Thomas, Decker, Welker, & Thomas.

Well let's start a little further back with this - If you put Peyton back in this same game again do you think the result would be the same?

I am not a Peyton fan nor detractor, and my answer to your question would be "Yes. The result would have been different", but I think it would be just as different if you put Peyton in again.

To say Peyton had a bad game is to the say the Sun is hot, but the events of this game are not easily repeated, no matter who you put in at QB. This game was just Seattle D's being Super (game) worthy.

 

[gradin123]

Seattle did what teams should have done all year. They played physical and sat on all the short routes. They didn't respect Mannings arm, because at this point in his career, Mannings arm strength is gone.

I agree. I also think the Broncos division rival Chargers established the blueprint on how to beat the Broncos this year and slow down their offense but the Seahawks took that to the next level because they have a vastly superior defense than the Chargers do. The Broncos played 3 games vs SD and averaged only 24 points in those 3 games so people shouldn't be that surprised that the Seahawks shut them down.

Also, the way the Broncos like to play offense plays right into the strength of the Seahawks D.

 

[Workhorse]

“@HubbuchNYP: Broncos center Manny Ramirez said Peyton was responsible for the safety because he stepped up after making the final adjustment.”

 

[kyoun1e]

I asked before the Pats/Broncos game, if DEN beat NE but then got hammered in the SB, would that really add to Manning's resume and detract from Brady's. Now that that's happened, of those two, whose stock went up or dropped after this post season?

What has Brady won lately?

OK. I'll play along. What has Peyton won lately?

AFC championship - Brady?

Been to 3 straight AFC championships including this year with a team that was a M*A*S*H unit.

Okay, so then what props do you give Manning for getting to the Super Bowl with the M*A*S*H unit that was the Denver Broncos?

Seriously?

He manned the greatest offense of all time.

NE had well documented and more significant injuries on BOTH sides of the ball.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Simple question:

If you put the "greatest QB of all time" (whoever you think that is) in place of Peyton tonight, would the result have been different?

Honestly, no. Whoever was playing QB for Denver could have played the best game of their career and it wouldn't have been enough.

That's not to say that Manning wasn't horrible -- he was of course.

 

[kyoun1e]

I asked before the Pats/Broncos game, if DEN beat NE but then got hammered in the SB, would that really add to Manning's resume and detract from Brady's. Now that that's happened, of those two, whose stock went up or dropped after this post season?

I am quite certain that one of the following is true, although I'm not sure which one:

1. Brady's and Manning's stock both dropped, but Brady's dropped more.

2. Manning's and Brady's stock both rose, but Manning's rose more.

3. Manning's stock rose while Brady's stock dropped.

You must have been locking the threads.

 

[kyoun1e]

Before this game started, I gave Seattle the edge. I felt they were the better overall team and more importantly had an incredible defense that Manning hadn't seen the likes of all season.

All that said, I felt that there was risk for Seattle that Manning and the supposed "GREATEST OFFENSE OF ALL TIME" would get it done. Because Manning could potentially play a great, flawless game, I figured this game would be one of the great ones.

Greatest offense of all time vs. one of the best defenses.

There was no contest here.

You have to be disappointed in Denver and Manning here.

It's not all on Manning's shoulders at all but in the biggest game with a historic offense an egg was laid.

He takes a hit.

 

[bostonfred]

In 2004 manning set the nfl record for passing touchdowns. He looked good in the early rounds of the playoffs against poor defenses. When he finally encountered a talented defense, he led the colts to three points.

In 2013 manning set the nfl record for passing touchdowns. He looked good in the early rounds of the playoffs against poor defenses. When he finally encountered a talented defense, he led the broncos to eight points.

 

[lod01]

In 2004 manning set the nfl record for passing touchdowns. He looked good in the early rounds of the playoffs against poor defenses. When he finally encountered a talented defense, he led the colts to three points.

In 2013 manning set the nfl record for passing touchdowns. He looked good in the early rounds of the playoffs against poor defenses. When he finally encountered a talented defense, he led the broncos to eight points.

He stat whored it up this year against the easiest schedule in the league and then right on cue, he Favred in the post season.

 

[Possum]

Manning couldn't handle a bad snap on the first play, safety, followed by a three and out and then his first interception. He had another interception that was tipped, a fumble lost, and twice turned the ball over on fourth and short. He led the highest scoring offense of all time to a grand total of one score.

Seattle played a great game, and lots of denver players didn't. But manning was one of them. Its not an indictment on his marvelous regular season career, and he's clearly one of the greatest of all time. But this is yet another data point in a pattern of poor individual postseason performances that span his entire career. Its part of the package you get with him.

At one point, people blamed the colts teams for not being good enough, even though he played with a ridiculous collection of offensive talent his entire career. But now we've seen that you can literally give him his choice of any team in the nfl, a great young set of receivers and let him pick the best receiver off his biggest rivals team, a good defense that got better as the season went on, and spot him a game against an 8-8 team that snuck into the playoffs followed by a home game against a patriots team that was absolutely decimated on both sides of the ball, and you still get this. There's no excuses left. He is what he is. An incredibly talented, cerebral quarterback who, for whatever reason, has played really badly in the playoffs once he ran into any kind of adversity.

Absolutely one of the all time greats. Absolutely not at the top of that list.

This is speculation mostly, but I get the impression Manning isn't much of a leader. He's a great leader in-so-far as he sets an example by being disciplined and executing properly, but I don't think he inspires anyone the way great leaders are supposed to--off the field, I'd bet the only Bronco he spends time with is John Elway.

We've seen little examples of it over the years: Reggie Wayne pushing him during a sideline huddle, him and Jeff Saturday going at it after a failed drive, his 'we had protections problems' public refrain following a playoff loss to Pittsburgh, etc.

He came into the league with a huge pedigree, and has basically been NFL royalty ever since--obviously he commands respect, but I wonder if teammates really want to win for him. He carries himself as though he's above the team, and when things get tough and someone needs to rally the troops, he can't do it. That's the best explanation I can think of for his playoff failures.

Contrast that with Brady: Yeah, he's a star and all that, but the guy still admits in a post game interview that he 'sucked pretty bad' in an AFCCG that the Patriots won in part because, 4th and goal from the one, and the team had to have a TD, Brady puts it in like a man (taking a vicious hit from Ray Lewis in the process). As tough as he is on his teammates, he's still a part of the team and not above it the way Manning always seems to be.

Everyone keeps saying Seattle was unbeatable...

If Manning didnt look like Andy Dalton, maybe it would've been a much tighter game.

He looked really bad.

Blame the OL, game plan, or whatever you want, but there is no denying how terrible Peyton played. It was painful to watch.

Peyton had a chance to cement his legacy and he just looked awful... Like absolutely terrible!!!

Wherever you had him ranked prior to tonight, you have to bring him down 2-3 spots.

His left tackle was out (been out all year) and he was playing against an elite defense. Their OL was atrocious and Seattle's DL was dominant. That was the biggest difference in the game. Blaming Manning is just lazy analysis.

Meh, excuses. We can pay a QB HALF of what Manning gets and get the same result in this game. The point in paying him all that $$ is NOT to have him set all kinds of meaningless records in the regular season, but rather to "raise all boats" as he supposedly does.

Yes, I am a pissed Bronco's fan right now.. but Manning just doesn't have 'it'. Yes, the team ##### the bed as the game progressed, but he just has no sense of pocket awareness apparently and his passes (many un-incumbered) were garbage in general.

I hope this game kills the concept of the finesse offense, it doesn't work... at least not with happy feet Manning.

You could pick the best QB in the history of the world and put him back there tonight and the result does not change. Seattle dominated the LOS.

I agree with your LOS comment, but couldn't disagree more with any QB. Collin K had them beat two weeks ago, were it not for some bonehead plays.

Watching the Broncos as I have, I have come to a few conclusions;

1) Manning needs a 'perfect' environment to win. This doesn't mean weather, it means a quiet crowd when he's on offense and a nice pocket to pass from.

2) If both of the above conditions are not met, he fails.

3) He makes poor passing decisions more than I thought he did when he was a Colt. MANY times, he depends on WR's in double coverage (which is okay ON OCCASION), and throws passes he shouldn't.

4) Arm strength is not great.

The whole team fell flat tonight, but the failure was led by PFM and the offense. 4 turnovers is inexcusable.

Seattle played a hell of a game, but we really saw the SB two weeks ago when SF and Seattle went at it in the NFC championship game.

all of these are very

 

[shader]

Simple question:

If you put the "greatest QB of all time" (whoever you think that is) in place of Peyton tonight, would the result have been different?

Honestly, no. Whoever was playing QB for Denver could have played the best game of their career and it wouldn't have been enough.

That's not to say that Manning wasn't horrible -- he was of course.

It's impossible to say that. I think people are really understating how bad Peyton was last night.

The Broncos defense held tough in the first half. They stopped the run and held them to 2 early field goals.

What would have happened if a strong-armed QB had been in the game? It's already been said that Manning might have been responsible for the early safety. What about the pick 6? What if a QB had made the Seahawks respect the deep ball with the bevy of receivers that they have? What if a QB that had mobility had been able to escape the pocket and make plays?

Take away the pick 6, run for a first down or two, and soften up the defense by throwing the ball deep, and it might have been a different game.

In truth, one of the reasons the Seahawks looked so good is Peyton's lack of arm strength. They shortened the field as if they were playing against Chad Pennington, and it worked. That strategy would not have worked against Aaron Rodgers.

 

[kyoun1e]

Simple question:

If you put the "greatest QB of all time" (whoever you think that is) in place of Peyton tonight, would the result have been different?

Honestly, no. Whoever was playing QB for Denver could have played the best game of their career and it wouldn't have been enough.

That's not to say that Manning wasn't horrible -- he was of course.

It's impossible to say that. I think people are really understating how bad Peyton was last night.

The Broncos defense held tough in the first half. They stopped the run and held them to 2 early field goals.

What would have happened if a strong-armed QB had been in the game? It's already been said that Manning might have been responsible for the early safety. What about the pick 6? What if a QB had made the Seahawks respect the deep ball with the bevy of receivers that they have? What if a QB that had mobility had been able to escape the pocket and make plays?

Take away the pick 6, run for a first down or two, and soften up the defense by throwing the ball deep, and it might have been a different game.

In truth, one of the reasons the Seahawks looked so good is Peyton's lack of arm strength. They shortened the field as if they were playing against Chad Pennington, and it worked. That strategy would not have worked against Aaron Rodgers.

Interesting analysis.

In the AFC, Manning can get away with this.

 

[Riversco]

spot him a game against an 8-8 team that snuck into the playoffs

Whoa whoa WHOA! The Chargers were 9-7! And they will win the West next year. I expect them to seriously contend for the AFC crown. The Chargers are a team that truly arrived towards the end of the regular season. One more good draft should put them over the top.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Simple question:

If you put the "greatest QB of all time" (whoever you think that is) in place of Peyton tonight, would the result have been different?

Honestly, no. Whoever was playing QB for Denver could have played the best game of their career and it wouldn't have been enough.

That's not to say that Manning wasn't horrible -- he was of course.

It's impossible to say that. I think people are really understating how bad Peyton was last night.

The Broncos defense held tough in the first half. They stopped the run and held them to 2 early field goals.

What would have happened if a strong-armed QB had been in the game? It's already been said that Manning might have been responsible for the early safety. What about the pick 6? What if a QB had made the Seahawks respect the deep ball with the bevy of receivers that they have? What if a QB that had mobility had been able to escape the pocket and make plays?

Take away the pick 6, run for a first down or two, and soften up the defense by throwing the ball deep, and it might have been a different game.

In truth, one of the reasons the Seahawks looked so good is Peyton's lack of arm strength. They shortened the field as if they were playing against Chad Pennington, and it worked. That strategy would not have worked against Aaron Rodgers.

Nah, the entire Denver team just failed to show up last night. Manning was definitely bad, but Seattle out-played Denver in every possible phase of the game. Swapping out one guy at one position wasn't going to change the outcome.

 

[skinsrule05]

Peyton had a chance to cement his legacy and he just looked awful... Like absolutely terrible!!!

Wherever you had him ranked prior to tonight, you have to bring him down 2-3 spots.

That is pretty silly to say. I don't know where you had him ranked before this but who are the guys that moved up? The only active one that is probably in your top 5 is Brady and he had an awful post season. So he couldn't move up.

Manning had a record season and prior to the SB was aging a great post season. Then he goes up against Seattle who had the best defensive performance ever in a superbow. Manning was lousy. The only thing this changes for his all time ranking is that The discussion about him and Montana as the top should be done.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Maybe the Denver team failed to show up and looked flat because the big stage was overwhelming to their leader

A group of young stars see their Captain looking like a deer in headlights and they all are overwhelmed...

Not saying this is a definite, but it is certainly possible.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Peyton had a chance to cement his legacy and he just looked awful... Like absolutely terrible!!!

Wherever you had him ranked prior to tonight, you have to bring him down 2-3 spots.

That is pretty silly to say. I don't know where you had him ranked before this but who are the guys that moved up? The only active one that is probably in your top 5 is Brady and he had an awful post season. So he couldn't move up.

Manning had a record season and prior to the SB was aging a great post season. Then he goes up against Seattle who had the best defensive performance ever in a superbow. Manning was lousy. The only thing this changes for his all time ranking is that The discussion about him and Montana as the top should be done.

Really? He had the opportunity to enter the conversation of greatest ever and he failed to do so... Not sure what is silly?

 

[Anarchy99]

Simple question:

If you put the "greatest QB of all time" (whoever you think that is) in place of Peyton tonight, would the result have been different?

Honestly, no. Whoever was playing QB for Denver could have played the best game of their career and it wouldn't have been enough.

That's not to say that Manning wasn't horrible -- he was of course.

It's impossible to say that. I think people are really understating how bad Peyton was last night.

The Broncos defense held tough in the first half. They stopped the run and held them to 2 early field goals.

What would have happened if a strong-armed QB had been in the game? It's already been said that Manning might have been responsible for the early safety. What about the pick 6? What if a QB had made the Seahawks respect the deep ball with the bevy of receivers that they have? What if a QB that had mobility had been able to escape the pocket and make plays?

Take away the pick 6, run for a first down or two, and soften up the defense by throwing the ball deep, and it might have been a different game.

In truth, one of the reasons the Seahawks looked so good is Peyton's lack of arm strength. They shortened the field as if they were playing against Chad Pennington, and it worked. That strategy would not have worked against Aaron Rodgers.

Nah, the entire Denver team just failed to show up last night. Manning was definitely bad, but Seattle out-played Denver in every possible phase of the game. Swapping out one guy at one position wasn't going to change the outcome.

I mostly agree that SEA was most likely going to win last night, but if on the first play from scrimmage would the game have played out differently if instead of a botched snap DEN hit DThomas along the sideline and the guy covering him slipped and fell and it went for an 86-yard TD? That would have been just as fluky and just as big a momentum boost for DEN as the safety was for SEA.

 

[JuniorNB]

A win over such a great defense would have put him as the best quarterback ever, in my opinion.

The loss prevents him from vaulting over Montana. Joe was just plain money in big games.

Manning remains #2 all-time.

 

[Riversco]

A win over such a great defense would have put him as the best quarterback ever, in my opinion.

The loss prevents him from vaulting over Montana. Joe was just plain money in big games.

Manning remains #2 all-time.

Even with a win he doesn't vault Montana. Not even close.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

There's a whole lot of people in this thread that think the QB is the entire team. Not just for Manning either.

 

[fantasycurse42]

A win over such a great defense would have put him as the best quarterback ever, in my opinion.

The loss prevents him from vaulting over Montana. Joe was just plain money in big games.

Manning remains #2 all-time.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

There's a whole lot of people in this thread that think the QB is the entire team. Not just for Manning either.

That guy in Denver is the offense. The captain of the best offense in the history of the NFL. That same offense didn't score until the very end of the 3rd quarter in what was basically garbage time.

 

[bostonfred]

There's a whole lot of people in this thread that think the QB is the entire team. Not just for Manning either.

Of course the QB isn't the whole team. But Manning was voted the most valuable player in the entire NFL this year. More than his center, offensive guard, offensive tackle, wide receiver, slot receiver, tight end, running back, or certainly any of his defensive players. The record books show that Peyton Manning holds the yardage and touchdown records, not Demaryius Thomas and Eric Decker and Wes Welker and Julius Thomas and Knowshon Moreno. Nobody seemed to be complaining about his individual accolades when he was receiving them.But when the Broncos turn the ball over four times, and Manning's individually responsible for two interceptions and a fumble, at least partially responsible for the safety, and also failed to convert on either fourth and two, he does bear some of the blame. And consider that the Seahawks scored 26 points off turnovers, not including turnovers on downs. Which means the Seahawks scored 17 offensive points without the benefit of turnovers, all but one of which were committed by Manning himself.

You know how, in baseball, when a pitcher hits a home run and throws a shutout - he didn't literally win the game by himself, but it's kind of similar? Now consider that Manning led the team to just 8 points all game, but the Seahawks scored 26 points off his turnovers.

 

[sho nuff]

A win over such a great defense would have put him as the best quarterback ever, in my opinion.

The loss prevents him from vaulting over Montana. Joe was just plain money in big games.

Manning remains #2 all-time.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I asked before the Pats/Broncos game, if DEN beat NE but then got hammered in the SB, would that really add to Manning's resume and detract from Brady's. Now that that's happened, of those two, whose stock went up or dropped after this post season?

What has Brady won lately?

OK. I'll play along. What has Peyton won lately?

AFC championship - Brady?

Been to 3 straight AFC championships including this year with a team that was a M*A*S*H unit.

Okay, so then what props do you give Manning for getting to the Super Bowl with the M*A*S*H unit that was the Denver Broncos?

Seriously?

He manned the greatest offense of all time.

NE had well documented and more significant injuries on BOTH sides of the ball.

NE may have had more injuries, but the Broncos still had a lot of them. Consider what Manning did with the offense this year despite missing his starting center all season and his all-pro left tackle for most of it. And he got them to 13-3 and the Super Bowl despite having a porous defense that was missing a ton of players due to injury for most of the season, including barely having their one stud defender Von Miller.

A win over such a great defense would have put him as the best quarterback ever, in my opinion.

The loss prevents him from vaulting over Montana. Joe was just plain money in big games.

Manning remains #2 all-time.

Did you know that Montana once threw for barely 100 yards and two interceptions in a 49-3 playoff loss to the Giants? Oh, but it wasn't the Super Bowl, so who cares, right? All great quarterbacks have bad games. It happens.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Really? He had the opportunity to enter the conversation of greatest ever and he failed to do so... Not sure what is silly?

Enter the conversation? He was already in that mix, and he still is.

 

[General Tso]

I keep reading that Seattle was the far superior team and that Denver didn't have a chance, no matter what Peyton did. What's already forgotten is that Denver was considered the better team going in and was favored to win the game.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Really? He had the opportunity to enter the conversation of greatest ever and he failed to do so... Not sure what is silly?

Enter the conversation? He was already in that mix, and he still is.

Not greatest ever... Top 5, sure debate him with Young, Favre, Marino, etc... But don't bring this guy into a conversation with Montana. Personally I take Elway and Brady over him, but this will get argued left right and sideways by a bunch of people.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Denver was only favored because the betting public went heavy on them right away, since the public loves to bet offense over defense. But them being a slight Vegas favorite doesn't mean they were considered the better team.

 

[JuniorNB]

A win over such a great defense would have put him as the best quarterback ever, in my opinion.

The loss prevents him from vaulting over Montana. Joe was just plain money in big games.

Manning remains #2 all-time.

Absolutely. The next guy (probably Elway) is a distant third

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Really? He had the opportunity to enter the conversation of greatest ever and he failed to do so... Not sure what is silly?

Enter the conversation? He was already in that mix, and he still is.

Not greatest ever... Top 5, sure debate him with Young, Favre, Marino, etc... But don't bring this guy into a conversation with Montana. Personally I take Elway and Brady over him, but this will get argued left right and sideways by a bunch of people.

Yeah, I don't think that Joe Montana is clearly, unarguably better than any of the guys you just mentioned. Was Elway better than Montana? I don't have an opinion either way and honestly I have a hard time understanding people who do. They're in the same general tier of all-time upper-echelon greats. That's enough.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

People are missing something important here.

In discussions about Dungy and Caldwell and past Colts teams and players and last year's Broncos team, what always comes up is how those guys get less credit for their achievements on the field because Manning was QB and because he was the coach on the field.

Supposedly the story circulating yesterday was that Manning had called around and gotten inside baseball on the Seahawks from Eli and other various coaches and players who had played SEA this year. There is no way that any coach, player or whoever else that has seen the Seahawks play this year told Manning to come out throwing and to keep throwing.

From the opening play where Manning started audibiling from the shotgun he appeared to screw up the game plan. A great QB would have buckled down and tried to run it 30+ times against Seattle. It does not matter how great or diminished his skills are (and they are still great IMO) he completely screwed his team yesterday with his playcalling. Absolute coaching malpractice there and yes he gets elevated as a "coach" or "coordinator" on the field so he absolutely takes the blame here. This was arrogance at a high level.

The missed snap for the safety, two interceptions, the lost fumble and overall just plain putting his team in the hole. He could have had two more picks.

The plain hard terrible fact is that as great as this man has been at QB he has occasionally done this in the playoffs, but this has to rank as the worst example ever on his part.

Sorry, but last night's performance takes him out of the very top, very short tier of all time greats.

 

[sho nuff]

Really? He had the opportunity to enter the conversation of greatest ever and he failed to do so... Not sure what is silly?

Enter the conversation? He was already in that mix, and he still is.

Not greatest ever... Top 5, sure debate him with Young, Favre, Marino, etc... But don't bring this guy into a conversation with Montana. Personally I take Elway and Brady over him, but this will get argued left right and sideways by a bunch of people.

Yeah, Favre never crapped the bed in the playoffs either.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Sorry, but last night's performance takes him out of the very top, very short tier of all time greats.

Couldn't agree more...

For me personally, that tier is Montana, Elway, & Brady...

Peyton lands in the tier with Young, Marino, & Farve

 

[fantasycurse42]

Really? He had the opportunity to enter the conversation of greatest ever and he failed to do so... Not sure what is silly?

Enter the conversation? He was already in that mix, and he still is.

Not greatest ever... Top 5, sure debate him with Young, Favre, Marino, etc... But don't bring this guy into a conversation with Montana. Personally I take Elway and Brady over him, but this will get argued left right and sideways by a bunch of people.

Yeah, Favre never crapped the bed in the playoffs either.

Durrrrrrr and I have them ranked in the same tier

 

[jon_mx]

Joe Montana rode Jerry RIce's coattails

 

[fantasycurse42]

Joe Montana rode Jerry RIce's coattails

You gotta be ####ting me? He won two Super Bowls before Jerry arrived...

18-1 the season before Jerry got there.

 

[General Tso]

People are missing something important here.

In discussions about Dungy and Caldwell and past Colts teams and players and last year's Broncos team, what always comes up is how those guys get less credit for their achievements on the field because Manning was QB and because he was the coach on the field.

Supposedly the story circulating yesterday was that Manning had called around and gotten inside baseball on the Seahawks from Eli and other various coaches and players who had played SEA this year. There is no way that any coach, player or whoever else that has seen the Seahawks play this year told Manning to come out throwing and to keep throwing.

From the opening play where Manning started audibiling from the shotgun he appeared to screw up the game plan. A great QB would have buckled down and tried to run it 30+ times against Seattle. It does not matter how great or diminished his skills are (and they are still great IMO) he completely screwed his team yesterday with his playcalling. Absolute coaching malpractice there and yes he gets elevated as a "coach" or "coordinator" on the field so he absolutely takes the blame here. This was arrogance at a high level.

The missed snap for the safety, two interceptions, the lost fumble and overall just plain putting his team in the hole. He could have had two more picks.

The plain hard terrible fact is that as great as this man has been at QB he has occasionally done this in the playoffs, but this has to rank as the worst example ever on his part.

Sorry, but last night's performance takes him out of the very top, very short tier of all time greats.

This is a great post - probably the best analysis of Manning I have heard yet. I have been sharply critical of Manning over the years in one particular area, and that is play calling. To his credit he is supremely confident in his abilities and not shy about taking on huge responsibilities. But at times he does seem to take on too much. I hated the pursuit of the TD record this year and the main reason was that it made Denver too one dimensional. The Poster is correct - the better gameplan against Seattle was to run the ball more. Play good, safe, ball control against that defense - at least at the outset. Hopefully Peyton will come to this realization someday.

 

[dickey moe]

Can't see how anyone couldn't say his legacy was somewhat tarnished after last night (apologize for the double negative).

 

[Anarchy99]

NE may have had more injuries, but the Broncos still had a lot of them. Consider what Manning did with the offense this year despite missing his starting center all season and his all-pro left tackle for most of it. And he got them to 13-3 and the Super Bowl despite having a porous defense that was missing a ton of players due to injury for most of the season, including barely having their one stud defender Von Miller.

Yes, DEN was missing a great OL and decent center for pretty much the entire season. From what I remember (which may not be accurate), those were the major injuries on offense this year for the Broncos.

The Pats had one TE that missed the first and last thirds of the season. Their other TE is rotting in jail. Amendola and Vereen got hurt the first game of the season, with one out some and hobbled the rest of the season and the other out for 2/3 of it. Their three rookie WRs all missed a ton of time or had to play banged up because they had no one else healthy. NE had their own All-Pro OT go on IR and miss half the season and had three other lineman miss time and had to play through injury.

Tip the hat to Manning for having a great season, but it certainly seems like the injury bug impacted Brady more than Manning this year.

 

[dickey moe]

If anything, he's probably been removed from consideration as Greatest of All Time.

 

[rct]

Otto Von Biz Markie @Passionweiss

No country for old Mannings.

 

[skinsrule05]

Sorry, but last night's performance takes him out of the very top, very short tier of all time greats.

Couldn't agree more...

For me personally, that tier is Montana, Elway, & Brady...

Peyton lands in the tier with Young, Marino, & Farve

This makes it seem like you watched a few SBs a decade ago and then stopped paying attention. There is no way you can put Brady up there and say Manning isn't in the discussion. Yes, Brady was key in a few SB wins (although the kicker was more key). But since then what has he done to make himself a hands down top 3?

This year is a perfect example. Manning had possibly the worst post season performance of his career. But his post season QBR was still higher then Brady's this season.

Over the last 8 years Manning has had a better post season QBR the Brady 6 times (Brady was better once, manning out once)

Mannings post season QBR over that time frame is 92 and Brady is 83.

Yet, Manning doesn't belong in the discussion w Brady. You lose all merit when you say that.

 

[Franknbeans]

methinks Brady would have been able score more than a TD

 

[JuniorNB]

Sorry, but last night's performance takes him out of the very top, very short tier of all time greats.

Couldn't agree more...

For me personally, that tier is Montana, Elway, & Brady...

Peyton lands in the tier with Young, Marino, & Farve

So, this week's big game performance puts Manning down below Brady, whom he outplayed significantly just two weeks ago? How come you aren't as hard on Brady for his big game fails? In fact, since Spygate, Brady hasn't gotten it done once, including an 18-0 team that many considered the greatest of all-time before they choked in the Super Bowl.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Sorry, but last night's performance takes him out of the very top, very short tier of all time greats.

Couldn't agree more...

For me personally, that tier is Montana, Elway, & Brady...

Peyton lands in the tier with Young, Marino, & Farve

So, this week's big game performance puts Manning down below Brady, whom he outplayed significantly just two weeks ago? How come you aren't as hard on Brady for his big game fails? In fact, since Spygate, Brady hasn't gotten it done once, including an 18-0 team that many considered the greatest of all-time before they choked in the Super Bowl.

What has Manning done compared to Brady since Skygate? Just curious.