MFL (1 Viewer)

[Holy Schneikes]

No.  For a commercial, paid service, 99.9% uptime is fairly typical (and amounts to about 9 hours down per year).  Anything less results in a fair amount of unhappy customers.  You have redundancy built into the system, and if a server breaks or needs to be updated, you roll the traffic/work over to another one.  For a major DB overhaul/rewrite, it would be different, but generally you would build the new system on new infrastructure and just point the network to the new system when it was ready/caught up.

Quite honestly, I don't think they know what they are doing, or they are just way behind the times tech-wise.  That is reflected in the application itself, the responsiveness of the app, and situations like this.  It is still likely as good as anything else out there sadly.  But I try not to store anything of value on this site, as I would not be surprised at all if they have been compromised at some point.

 

[GregR]

Well, this IS a database upgrade or migration, so I'd say the salient part there was that building the new system and just cutting over probably can't be done in this case.

But I agree with you that without knowing more I'd still think there might have been a lack of proper prep for it. You can't fully stage the databases in advance and just cut over. But you can practice the migration or upgrade procedure in advance to avoid most issues. 

 

[grateful zed]

on the bright side, they will allow pics!

 

[LAUNCH]

I want to be able to set up BB waivers and then a waiver priority-based process instead of a FCFS after the BB waivers - don't think I can do that either. 

If you put the FCFS calendar event to start right after the end of the BB waiver you should be good.

 

[tone1oc]

Almost a full week to upgrade DBs..  What a joke.  My guess is that they invested the least amount of money they could and hence have a amateurs doing it. 

And why would they?  The user base seems to be mostly okay with them not investing any money into their horrid UX and stack.   MFL has to be the worst website on the internet when you consider they are a monetized service with the user base they have.

::dreams of a post MFL world::

 

[-CE-]

If only AntSports had someone better than Steve ruining running it.  R.I.P.

 

[shady inc]

That'd be funny if all of the leagues were accidentally erased in this process. 

 

[Binky The Doormat]

If you put the FCFS calendar event to start right after the end of the BB waiver you should be good.

Thanks - but won't that engage the FCFS process vs. a waiver priority based process each day?  

Note: after a couple days of waiver priority based waivers it would be nice to then go FCFS.

ex.)  Is this doable at MFL?  How the hell do I set it up?

Wednesday:  Full BB waivers - as many guys as you want to spend $ on (processes 1am or so)

Thursday/Friday: "Waiver priority" based waivers one player per day - no cost (processes mid-day or so ...in time for Thursday night game)

Saturday-Sun kick off:  FCFS - no cost

 

[FreeBaGeL]

That'd be funny if all of the leagues were accidentally erased in this process. 

At this point I think there's a 50/50 chance that's already happened.

 

[tone1oc]

At this point I think there's a 50/50 chance that's already happened.

It's a safe bet that they either corrupted (most likely) or lost a good chunk of data.  Data recovery is very time consuming, and my best guess for what is causing the delays. 

 

[Golfjim]

Whomever they have as Project Lead is at best, inept, or at worst, totally incompetent.  You NEVER, and I mean NEVER, start testing against live data.  I agree with the rest of you:  they've lost data, maybe even crashed the DB, and are now trying to recover.  It's hard telling how long before they get up again if that is the case.

 

[bostonfred]

They've probably saved me from offering  countless ill advised trades as I get nervous about whether my guy is going to fall to me in the rookie draft.  

 

[Sabertooth]

I made a trade the old fashioned way today.  By talking. 

 

[Denver724]

I have really enjoyed the downtime this week. 99% of the trade proposals I receive are senseless so it has been nice not having to deal with ridiculous offers.

 

[KCitons]

I made a trade the old fashioned way today.  By talking. 

Link?

 

[tone1oc]

I have really enjoyed the downtime this week. 99% of the trade proposals I receive are senseless so it has been nice not having to deal with ridiculous offers.

If 99% of trade proposals are senseless, then maybe you're evaluation process off? 

 

[TLK]

Thanks - but won't that engage the FCFS process vs. a waiver priority based process each day?  

Note: after a couple days of waiver priority based waivers it would be nice to then go FCFS.

ex.)  Is this doable at MFL?  How the hell do I set it up?

Wednesday:  Full BB waivers - as many guys as you want to spend $ on (processes 1am or so)

Thursday/Friday: "Waiver priority" based waivers one player per day - no cost (processes mid-day or so ...in time for Thursday night game)

Saturday-Sun kick off:  FCFS - no cost

I'm fairly certain that they can handle this. This is the exact process we run, with slightly different times.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Whats a better site out there?    

Sure it sucks, but there is no better alternative

If you're playing redraft switch to yahoo and you'll never look back.

MFL blows 

 

[Soulfly3]

yahoo for redraft is the GREATEST and it's not even close.

 

[Mister CIA]

Given the ancient nature of the web site design, my wild guess is that their propensity to kick the can down the road finally met a compliance issue that was tired of being ignored, hence the late April upgrade.

Speculation - They're in crisis mode and negotiating consulting contracts at this moment, likely with a slightly disgruntled ex-employee.

 

[shady inc]

Their twitter account said getting back up by tonight would be optimistic...

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

It's a safe bet that they either corrupted (most likely) or lost a good chunk of data.  Data recovery is very time consuming, and my best guess for what is causing the delays

Worst IT department ever

 

[WheelsUp]

this is disappointing so close to the nfl draft. this is a problem when someone has a monopoly. i wonder if they even care since this will not effect their bottom line and we are at their mercy.

 

[Soulfly3]

Their twitter account said getting back up by tonight would be optimistic...

Or this month

 

[Borden]

Worst IT department ever

More like, every IT department ever. 

 

[Mister CIA]

More like, every IT department ever. 

You get what you pay for.

 

[tangfoot]

MFL is almost never down all year long they are making some adjustments in April and some are getting up in arms about it and what to move to another site.

Pretty crazy how fast some people turn on what has been an excellent site.  My suggestion would be to plan on this 3-4 day stoppage on MFL in mid to late April every year.

MFL is one hell of a site and pretty cheap no complaints here.

Update?

 

[Pipes]

Redraft is where people won't be even thinking about the NFL for another few months. Being down with less than a week before the NFL draft IS a big deal for dynasty leagues. Many leagues have their annual rookie drafts start right after the NFL draft, many startups start their initial drafts right after the NFL draft. Being down impacts those leagues and owners who are usually negotiating trades in the days leading up to those events.

I'm fine with them doing an upgrade and it even taking longer than expected, love the website. But no, the timing absolutely stinks, makes no sense why they do it just before the NFL Draft every year. 

We're still a week away from the NFL draft and I would be shocked if things aren't up and running by then.  Trades can be negotiated outside of MFL and worst case you push your rookie draft back a week or two until mid May.  I think everyone will be ok.

 

[Slider]

I hope the "some time Friday" is west coast.

 

[Pipes]

Terrible post. 

Ha ha.  Look at the calendar.  Things will be up and running soon and your rookie drafts and fantasy offseason will go on just fine.  Some of you take this pretend football hobby way too seriously.  

 

[Borden]

We're still a week away from the NFL draft and I would be shocked if things aren't up and running by then.  Trades can be negotiated outside of MFL and worst case you push your rookie draft back a week or two until mid May.  I think everyone will be ok.

I don't like this idea. Yes changes can be made but it doesn't mean that they should. Plus, moving picks before the draft is important because guys to buy and sell early before what they think will either be a rise or fall in prices. Think about how many times you've read "depends on his landing spot" about this draft. Plus, if this was planned it should've been done when the league/season roll over happened. 

To be clear, I'm not upset about it being down (other then I enjoy trying to make trades) but it is an issue. MFL, I'm guessing, carries a large chunk of dynasty leagues and part of the draw of these leagues is year round use. This is part of what is being paid for. It also seems that more of the issues people have is that it's gone past it's expected return date. Concessions were already made by the users but they still aren't back yet. Again, I personally am not that bothered but I do think people have a reason to be upset since the yearly service they pay for is not working. 

 

[FreeBaGeL]

 Trades can be negotiated outside of MFL and worst case you push your rookie draft back a week or two until mid May.  I think everyone will be ok.

How do you come up with trades when you can't see anyone's roster?

 

[Hankmoody]

Ha ha.  Look at the calendar.  Things will be up and running soon and your rookie drafts and fantasy offseason will go on just fine.  Some of you take this pretend football hobby way too seriously.  

Terrible post.

 

[32 Counter Pass]

Wow! Looks like some of you are wound a little too tight.

Putting the fact that the season is 4 months or so way, MFL gave what I thought was ample notice about the downtime. If this was going to really be such a disruption to your league activities you should have made other arrangements. If the upgrades improve future service I have no issue with it.

 

[dipandglide]

Ha ha.  Look at the calendar.  Things will be up and running soon and your rookie drafts and fantasy offseason will go on just fine.  Some of you take this pretend football hobby way too seriously.  

DISLIKE

 

[dipandglide]

Wow! Looks like some of you are wound a little too tight.

Putting the fact that the season is 4 months or so way, MFL gave what I thought was ample notice about the downtime. If this was going to really be such a disruption to your league activities you should have made other arrangements. If the upgrades improve future service I have no issue with it.

I'm in the middle of a startup draft. If we had an "ample" notice we wouldn't have planned our draft during this time. To have your product be down for this length of time is embarrassing. Add in the fact that the update was supposed to be done Thursday, then Friday, and now with no ETA and its an absolute joke. There's no room for excuses. 

 

[Game Time]

from their twitter page...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cgsmqw_WsAEPmtW.jpg

 

[barackdhouse]

from their twitter page...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cgsmqw_WsAEPmtW.jpg

That's encouraging.  I was about to say that even the lousiest IT team imaginable backs up everything,  so the likelihood of losing data is almost nil. But there's a million other types of delays that can occur.  I hope they figure it out. 

 

[Leroy's Aces]

As a part-owner of the FFPC (and owner of 8 dynasty teams on MFL), which has our own platform which is not down, but is not at all comparable to MFL, I want to say a few things. I personally know Mike Hall, the owner of MFL. He is probably one of the most decent people in the entire industry of fantasy sports, bar none. He sincerely cares about his product, his customers and the fantasy sports industry. If it is taking a long time, it is not by choice and I am sure he is personally wishing things could be done sooner. For those that cannot possibly tolerate a few days of downtime, go ahead and play with some faceless corporate ######## site like CBS that rapes their customers with 50% payouts in their pay leagues. I never will. 

Dave Gerczak

co-founder

The FFPC

co-founder

The Small Businesses of Fantasy Sports - A Trade Association

 

[Soulfly3]

go ahead and play with some faceless corporate ######## site like CBS that rapes their customers with 50% payouts in their pay leagues. I never will. 

Just so we're clear... rape implies a lack of consent.

Anyone playing on CBS consents to their rules and payout structures. 

Ya know... Just to be clear.

 

[tone1oc]

As a part-owner of the FFPC (and owner of 8 dynasty teams on MFL), which has our own platform which is not down, but is not at all comparable to MFL, I want to say a few things. I personally know Mike Hall, the owner of MFL. He is probably one of the most decent people in the entire industry of fantasy sports, bar none. He sincerely cares about his product, his customers and the fantasy sports industry. If it is taking a long time, it is not by choice and I am sure he is personally wishing things could be done sooner. For those that cannot possibly tolerate a few days of downtime, go ahead and play with some faceless corporate ######## site like CBS that rapes their customers with 50% payouts in their pay leagues. I never will. 

Dave Gerczak

co-founder

The FFPC

co-founder

The Small Businesses of Fantasy Sports - A Trade Association

I'm sure Mike Hall is a great guy and I always try to work with small/medium sized businesses.   I give over $200 a year to MFL, and I do appreciate that they provide a platform for dynasty football.   But as a paying customer I think it's more than fair to criticize.  The downtime isn't even a big rub for me, it just exasperates my real frustration.  I believe that any web based platform with the user base as large as their's should invest in improving what is a nightmare of a UX.   The site is slow and has far too much markup (waves to mobile users with limited data) and the stack itself is a dinosaur that doesn't leverage any modern web frameworks/philosophies.   Fleaflicker is getting closer every year to duplicating the functionality with a modern, responsive design.   But I'm rooting for MFL, I want them to see the light.  They absolutely will cease to exist if they don't acknowledge the dinosaur in the room.

And my guess is the database migration was 10000x harder than it should be because their stack is so dated.

Invest in the product. 

 

[Pipes]

Terrible post.

You've already said that.  Please explain.

 

[Leroy's Aces]

I'm sure Mike Hall is a great guy and I always try to work with small/medium sized businesses.   I give over $200 a year to MFL, and I do appreciate that they provide a platform for dynasty football.   But as a paying customer I think it's more than fair to criticize.  The downtime isn't even a big rub for me, it just exasperates my real frustration.  I believe that any web based platform with the user base as large as their's should invest in improving what is a nightmare of a UX.   The site is slow and has far too much markup (waves to mobile users with limited data) and the stack itself is a dinosaur that doesn't leverage any modern web frameworks/philosophies.   Fleaflicker is getting closer every year to duplicating the functionality with a modern, responsive design.   But I'm rooting for MFL, I want them to see the light.  They absolutely will cease to exist if they don't acknowledge the dinosaur in the room.

And my guess is the database migration was 10000x harder than it should be because their stack is so dated.

Invest in the product. 

I am not smart enough to disagree with the majority of your post; you may be right.

One thing no one is acknowledging is that season-long and dynasty fantasy sports as we know it may be gone soon with the current DFS legislative bills being passed that encompass both private and commercial season-long fantasy sports leagues. As in, it may soon be illegal to have private fantasy leagues for money depending on how dumb the legislators are in your state and no one is talking about it. 

When you put in that context, MFL being down for a few days isn't so big of a deal. 

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

from their twitter page...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cgsmqw_WsAEPmtW.jpg

Who posts a screenshot from their Notes app as their database status update? That's the sort of thing I would expect out of a "database admin" whose mom just called him up to bed because he has a Pokemon tournament tomorrow morning.

 

[Borden]

As a part-owner of the FFPC (and owner of 8 dynasty teams on MFL), which has our own platform which is not down, but is not at all comparable to MFL, I want to say a few things. I personally know Mike Hall, the owner of MFL. He is probably one of the most decent people in the entire industry of fantasy sports, bar none. He sincerely cares about his product, his customers and the fantasy sports industry. If it is taking a long time, it is not by choice and I am sure he is personally wishing things could be done sooner. For those that cannot possibly tolerate a few days of downtime, go ahead and play with some faceless corporate ######## site like CBS that rapes their customers with 50% payouts in their pay leagues. I never will. 

Dave Gerczak

co-founder

The FFPC

co-founder

The Small Businesses of Fantasy Sports - A Trade Association

"Mike's a good guy" doesn't cut it. Nor does your one example of CBS. Yahoo redraft leagues are free and still have a keeper function and quite a few options for the league setup. They don't currently have offseason leagues hence the strong MFL draw for those kinds of leagues. So, when paying customers don't have access to this and keep getting their date pushed back, they have reason to be upset.

As a "small business co-founder in fantasy sports" you should know that telling people to go get raped by a faceless bull#### company if they don't like the fact that the service they pay for isn't working, probably isn't very professional move. And you say this after asking for patience/tolerance from the customers. This isn't meant to be a personal attack but when you announce yourself the way you did it comes across as you representing the Fantasy community and MFL/Mike indirectly. 

 

[jeaton6]

D ithis is disappointing so close to the nfl draft. this is a problem when someone has a monopoly. i wonder if they even care since this will not effect their bottom line and we are at their mercy.

It most definitely will affect their bottom line. This will sour some and I'll bet some people will take business elsewhere. Also wouldn't be shocked if it impacts their growth to some degree. Short term they're losing MFL 10/25 business while they're down. 

Wouldnt be surprised if they offer some free MFL 10's to existing customers.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

It most definitely will affect their bottom line. This will sour some and I'll bet some people will take business elsewhere. Also wouldn't be shocked if it impacts their growth to some degree. Short term they're losing MFL 10/25 business while they're down. 

Wouldnt be surprised if they offer some free MFL 10's to existing customers.

For dynasty leagues with customized lineups/scoring where else can people go?  There might be other options but i personally don't know of any that fit the needs of dynasty leagues and the various lineups/scoring leagues use.

 

[jeaton6]

For dynasty leagues with customized lineups/scoring where else can people go?  There might be other options but i personally don't know of any that fit the needs of dynasty leagues and the various lineups/scoring leagues use.

I think you may be overestimating the amount of customization that actually is happening in dynasty leagues on average (or how much value add customization is actually going on).  I'm in 12 MFL dynos (all different Commish) and  they are all structured very similarly with very few exceptions. Don't disagree they offer most customization options so probably are the only option for some.  Unless this update blows us all away (still no idea what they actually are doing)  I'll bet this will make at least some rethink starting a new league on MFL. It a perfect excuse to try something different and see how/if it works out.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

I think you may be overestimating the amount of customization that actually is happening in dynasty leagues on average (or how much value add customization is actually going on).  I'm in 12 MFL dynos (all different Commish) and  they are all structured very similarly with very few exceptions. Don't disagree they offer most customization options so probably are the only option for some.  Unless this update blows us all away (still no idea what they actually are doing)  I'll bet this will make at least some rethink starting a new league on MFL. It a perfect excuse to try something different and see how/if it works out.

True, i guess it might cause some to look at other options, which makes this "mistake" by them potentially costly.  i've always been happy with their product so haven't bothered to look anywhere else. would really have no idea where to look.

What are some other options for dynasty leagues?  

 

[lsutigers]

What are some other options for dynasty leagues?  

I'm in a first year Reality Sports Online league (contract auction with IDP option.)  It's not the same level customizable as MFL but as pointed out, what else is. There are some positive connections with Waldman and Harstad including a review on FBG.

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=Harstad_RSO_Review

(FWIW I also have a long time MFL league that I continue to commish and will continue to host there.)