Michael Vick gets hit late all the time anybody cant see that youre bl (1 Viewer)

[delusional]

Someone just broke down the eagles 3 games this season and Vick has been hit 47 times. 7 of those hits were on called running plays. He had 1 flag thrown in his favor on a hiti n the pocket but there were 5 other times he was hit illegaly or late while in the pocket that drew no flags.

People dont understand that these are the hits he is talking about. The ones in the pocket, not the ones where he is outside the pocket & pass the LOS. You see QBs getting flags in their favor if a defender his their helmet with their hand when trying to tip the pass while coming in. Yet Vick, for instance in sundays game, was hit late & illegally and NOTHING was called. That is why he is getting frustrated. This has been going on since last season.

That "he holds the ball too long' has no bearing on this arguement. Late & illegal hits are late & illegal hits no matter what.

Also, Pereira is an ######. Of course he is going to side with the NFL. If he really had any clue he would know that this was already brought up internally & nothing has been done about it.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Sal Pal was just on 97.5 The Fanatic and said that Vick IS getting hit more than anyone else and getting hit more late, BUT, he IS getting the calls for those hits at the same rate as everyone else.

And no offense delusional, but there's no way I'm buying that Vick has run out of bounds on 17 of his 24 runs.

And I would love to see the video of those 5 hits in the pocket that should have allegedly drawn a flag.

 

[jojoh07]

Vick is a genius , flags will be flying

 

[Road Warriors]

Vick is a genius , flags will be flying

Sure worked for Harrison when he complained about getting flagged unfairly. Refs don't like to get called out. He'll get fewer borderline calls now, IMO.

 

[delusional]

Sal Pal was just on 97.5 The Fanatic and said that Vick IS getting hit more than anyone else and getting hit more late, BUT, he IS getting the calls for those hits at the same rate as everyone else. And no offense delusional, but there's no way I'm buying that Vick has run out of bounds on 17 of his 24 runs.And I would love to see the video of those 5 hits in the pocket that should have allegedly drawn a flag.

He got one roughing the passer call and that was in the 1st quarter of the 1st game. That is it. No idea what you are talking about with the running out of bounds 17 times? He ran the ball past the LOS 18 times, 7 of those were "designed runs".As for the videos. If you got the time and access to them, go rewatch all 3 games.

 

[Clinton]

Vick is a genius

The first time that phrase has ever been uttered.

 

[Dexter Manley]

Someone just broke down the eagles 3 games this season and Vick has been hit 47 times. 7 of those hits were on called running plays. He had 1 flag thrown in his favor on a hiti n the pocket but there were 5 other times he was hit illegaly or late while in the pocket that drew no flags.

People dont understand that these are the hits he is talking about. The ones in the pocket, not the ones where he is outside the pocket & pass the LOS. You see QBs getting flags in their favor if a defender his their helmet with their hand when trying to tip the pass while coming in. Yet Vick, for instance in sundays game, was hit late & illegally and NOTHING was called. That is why he is getting frustrated. This has been going on since last season.

That "he holds the ball too long' has no bearing on this arguement. Late & illegal hits are late & illegal hits no matter what.

Also, Pereira is an ######. Of course he is going to side with the NFL. If he really had any clue he would know that this was already brought up internally & nothing has been done about it.

So are you acusing Pereira of lying when he said the Eagles complain and ##### about these types of calls more than any other nfl team?

 

[egg413]

Sal thinks so and I also feel that hit where he almost had his helmet come off and reached for his head...if that hit happens on Tom Brady a yellow flag is thrown immediately.

Well, both Mike Golic and Merril Hoge have disagreed with Vick and Sal so far this morning. And with Sal being a Philly guy, I think taking his bias into account is probably proper.

Ditka agreed pretty strongly that Vick does not get the calls that "all the other Qbs get."FWIW

Im not a big fan of Vick but he does have a point. Did anybody see the Jets/Raiders game where Mohammad Wilkerson of the Jets was flagged for roughing the passer after he pushed Jason Campbell after he threw a pass?? Campbell may have went back two steps and never even fell, yet a flag was thrown. The problem is the inconsistency....the refs need to be more consistent the way they interpret roughing the passer.

 

[dynomitejd]

No one takes you serious with grammar like that.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Sal Pal was just on 97.5 The Fanatic and said that Vick IS getting hit more than anyone else and getting hit more late, BUT, he IS getting the calls for those hits at the same rate as everyone else. And no offense delusional, but there's no way I'm buying that Vick has run out of bounds on 17 of his 24 runs.And I would love to see the video of those 5 hits in the pocket that should have allegedly drawn a flag.

He got one roughing the passer call and that was in the 1st quarter of the 1st game. That is it. No idea what you are talking about with the running out of bounds 17 times? He ran the ball past the LOS 18 times, 7 of those were "designed runs".As for the videos. If you got the time and access to them, go rewatch all 3 games.

NFL.com has Vick down for 24 runs. Whether or not they were designed runs or passed the LOS doesn't matter for purposes of this discussion.

 

[Addai's Adidas]

I hope Vick gets hurt badly while playing the game for what he did to those dogs. Are we suggesting that the refs feel the same as I do and are not calling hits so he gets hurt?

 

[FarEastKilla]

Vick wants those "Super Star aka NFL-loves-you *wink* *wink*" calls like Manning or Brady, but maybe somebody should tell him in order to get those flags he needs to win at least two super bowl like Manning or Brady. Vick should just keep selling tickets and stop whining.

 

[delusional]

Wow some ignorant people in this thread

 

[tenaka]

Vick wants those "Super Star aka NFL-loves-you *wink* *wink*" calls like Manning or Brady, but maybe somebody should tell him in order to get those flags he needs to win at least two super bowl like Manning or Brady. Vick should just keep selling tickets and stop whining.

Umm... are you sewing the two brothers together for that one?

 

[Khy]

Look the point is Vick is not going to draw as many flags as a passer that is strictly a pocket passer. Whether he wants them or not, he still runs a lot of his snaps, designed or not. The one hit from Chris Canty wasn't even remotely late and his helmet and shoulder hit Vick's chest the very tip of his helmet hit the very bottom of his facemask but it was by a hair. The other hit on Vick that was actually a direct helmet to helmet was just as much Vick's fault as the defender. Vick turned and ducked into his helmet as the guy went in for a sack. Officials do take notice of such things, otherwise you could just drop your helmet into the defenders whenever you needed a first down.

 

[Burl]

Look the point is Vick is not going to draw as many flags as a passer that is strictly a pocket passer. Whether he wants them or not, he still runs a lot of his snaps, designed or not. The one hit from Chris Canty wasn't even remotely late and his helmet and shoulder hit Vick's chest the very tip of his helmet hit the very bottom of his facemask but it was by a hair. The other hit on Vick that was actually a direct helmet to helmet was just as much Vick's fault as the defender. Vick turned and ducked into his helmet as the guy went in for a sack. Officials do take notice of such things, otherwise you could just drop your helmet into the defenders whenever you needed a first down.

I couldn't disagree with you more. The style of passer shouldn't matter in this discussion at all. Just because you run more (which I understand results in more hits, thus more opportunity for the flags) has nothing to do with how the rules are interpreted. The rule doesn't state, "You can't be hit in the head, unless you are a running QB, then you can". A helmet to helmet hit on a QB is not allowed, whether it be intentional or not. By the definition of the rule, those two examples you posted above are penalties. It doesn't matter if it was just a hair or if Vick moved to avoid a hit and was hit in the helmet.The NFL needs to be more clear and more consistent on this rule. It can't be called one way in one game and totally different in another. That is the problem with this whole issue.

 

[cosjobs]

He could throw the ball instead of holding it so long if he wanted to help.

empty your msg box

 

[unckeyherb]

Someone just broke down the eagles 3 games this season and Vick has been hit 47 times. 7 of those hits were on called running plays. He had 1 flag thrown in his favor on a hiti n the pocket but there were 5 other times he was hit illegaly or late while in the pocket that drew no flags.People dont understand that these are the hits he is talking about. The ones in the pocket, not the ones where he is outside the pocket & pass the LOS. You see QBs getting flags in their favor if a defender his their helmet with their hand when trying to tip the pass while coming in. Yet Vick, for instance in sundays game, was hit late & illegally and NOTHING was called. That is why he is getting frustrated. This has been going on since last season.That "he holds the ball too long' has no bearing on this arguement. Late & illegal hits are late & illegal hits no matter what.Also, Pereira is an ######. Of course he is going to side with the NFL. If he really had any clue he would know that this was already brought up internally & nothing has been done about it.

I couldn't disagree with you more. The style of passer shouldn't matter in this discussion at all. Just because you run more (which I understand results in more hits, thus more opportunity for the flags) has nothing to do with how the rules are interpreted. The rule doesn't state, "You can't be hit in the head, unless you are a running QB, then you can". A helmet to helmet hit on a QB is not allowed, whether it be intentional or not. By the definition of the rule, those two examples you posted above are penalties. It doesn't matter if it was just a hair or if Vick moved to avoid a hit and was hit in the helmet.The NFL needs to be more clear and more consistent on this rule. It can't be called one way in one game and totally different in another. That is the problem with this whole issue.

x2Exactly what I am trying to say..

 

[TobiasFunke]

Someone just broke down the eagles 3 games this season and Vick has been hit 47 times. 7 of those hits were on called running plays. He had 1 flag thrown in his favor on a hiti n the pocket but there were 5 other times he was hit illegaly or late while in the pocket that drew no flags.People dont understand that these are the hits he is talking about. The ones in the pocket, not the ones where he is outside the pocket & pass the LOS. You see QBs getting flags in their favor if a defender his their helmet with their hand when trying to tip the pass while coming in. Yet Vick, for instance in sundays game, was hit late & illegally and NOTHING was called. That is why he is getting frustrated. This has been going on since last season.That "he holds the ball too long' has no bearing on this arguement. Late & illegal hits are late & illegal hits no matter what.Also, Pereira is an ######. Of course he is going to side with the NFL. If he really had any clue he would know that this was already brought up internally & nothing has been done about it.

Out of curiosity- was the "someone" who broke down the film an Eagles fan or an impartial observer?

 

[Dizzy]

Who is going to be the first one, on television, to say Vick does not get the calls because of his color? Tonight, Tom Jackson seemed to want to say it and his anger was funny to say the least, but who is going to turn this into a race issue?

So far, it appears to be kept to football and stats indicating Vick gets more calls, but someone is bound to bring race into this. Where is Limbaugh for some comedy?

Hugh Douglas said it on ESPN First Take this morning.It was in response to a story involving Mike Pereira's (former VP of officiating) comments that the Eagles constantly complain about the officiating.

Now the host of the ESPN show quoted Pereira as saying, "Whether it's Vick or McNabb the Eagles constantly complain about how their QB's as officiated." And to be fair I haven't seen or heard that statement.

Anyway, Douglas replied to THAT with, "And what is the common denominator here? Both QB's are black (and Manning/Brady are not)."

Pereira Rant

I have to hand it to Mike Vick... he has managed to deflect nearly all of the attention off of their soft defense.

Edited w/ link on McNabb comment by Pereira:

More Pereira

 

[unckeyherb]

Someone just broke down the eagles 3 games this season and Vick has been hit 47 times. 7 of those hits were on called running plays. He had 1 flag thrown in his favor on a hiti n the pocket but there were 5 other times he was hit illegaly or late while in the pocket that drew no flags.People dont understand that these are the hits he is talking about. The ones in the pocket, not the ones where he is outside the pocket & pass the LOS. You see QBs getting flags in their favor if a defender his their helmet with their hand when trying to tip the pass while coming in. Yet Vick, for instance in sundays game, was hit late & illegally and NOTHING was called. That is why he is getting frustrated. This has been going on since last season.That "he holds the ball too long' has no bearing on this arguement. Late & illegal hits are late & illegal hits no matter what.Also, Pereira is an ######. Of course he is going to side with the NFL. If he really had any clue he would know that this was already brought up internally & nothing has been done about it.

Out of curiosity- was the "someone" who broke down the film an Eagles fan or an impartial observer?

I know Sal Paolantonio broke down the above yesterday on Mikey Mis' radio show. Sal's roots are in Philadelphia (he used to be a beat writer for the Inquirer) but he has been a reporter for ESPN for the last decade and a half. He's pretty pro-Birds, but he's reporting through ESPN, so take it as you want.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Someone just broke down the eagles 3 games this season and Vick has been hit 47 times. 7 of those hits were on called running plays. He had 1 flag thrown in his favor on a hiti n the pocket but there were 5 other times he was hit illegaly or late while in the pocket that drew no flags.People dont understand that these are the hits he is talking about. The ones in the pocket, not the ones where he is outside the pocket & pass the LOS. You see QBs getting flags in their favor if a defender his their helmet with their hand when trying to tip the pass while coming in. Yet Vick, for instance in sundays game, was hit late & illegally and NOTHING was called. That is why he is getting frustrated. This has been going on since last season.That "he holds the ball too long' has no bearing on this arguement. Late & illegal hits are late & illegal hits no matter what.Also, Pereira is an ######. Of course he is going to side with the NFL. If he really had any clue he would know that this was already brought up internally & nothing has been done about it.

Out of curiosity- was the "someone" who broke down the film an Eagles fan or an impartial observer?

I know Sal Paolantonio broke down the above yesterday on Mikey Mis' radio show. Sal's roots are in Philadelphia (he used to be a beat writer for the Inquirer) but he has been a reporter for ESPN for the last decade and a half. He's pretty pro-Birds, but he's reporting through ESPN, so take it as you want.

And what was Sal's ultimate conclusion? I'll give you a hint, Sal didn't think Vick was being treated unfairly.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Someone just broke down the eagles 3 games this season and Vick has been hit 47 times. 7 of those hits were on called running plays. He had 1 flag thrown in his favor on a hiti n the pocket but there were 5 other times he was hit illegaly or late while in the pocket that drew no flags.People dont understand that these are the hits he is talking about. The ones in the pocket, not the ones where he is outside the pocket & pass the LOS. You see QBs getting flags in their favor if a defender his their helmet with their hand when trying to tip the pass while coming in. Yet Vick, for instance in sundays game, was hit late & illegally and NOTHING was called. That is why he is getting frustrated. This has been going on since last season.That "he holds the ball too long' has no bearing on this arguement. Late & illegal hits are late & illegal hits no matter what.Also, Pereira is an ######. Of course he is going to side with the NFL. If he really had any clue he would know that this was already brought up internally & nothing has been done about it.

Out of curiosity- was the "someone" who broke down the film an Eagles fan or an impartial observer?

I know Sal Paolantonio broke down the above yesterday on Mikey Mis' radio show. Sal's roots are in Philadelphia (he used to be a beat writer for the Inquirer) but he has been a reporter for ESPN for the last decade and a half. He's pretty pro-Birds, but he's reporting through ESPN, so take it as you want.

Sal is obviously somewhat biased, but if he actually concluded that there were 5 other instances of late hits that were clearly in violation of the rules that were not called- and that this was much different than the # of calls or missed calls for other QBs over the same time frame- I would give that some credence. Is that what he said?

 

[Khy]

Look the point is Vick is not going to draw as many flags as a passer that is strictly a pocket passer. Whether he wants them or not, he still runs a lot of his snaps, designed or not. The one hit from Chris Canty wasn't even remotely late and his helmet and shoulder hit Vick's chest the very tip of his helmet hit the very bottom of his facemask but it was by a hair. The other hit on Vick that was actually a direct helmet to helmet was just as much Vick's fault as the defender. Vick turned and ducked into his helmet as the guy went in for a sack. Officials do take notice of such things, otherwise you could just drop your helmet into the defenders whenever you needed a first down.

I couldn't disagree with you more. The style of passer shouldn't matter in this discussion at all. Just because you run more (which I understand results in more hits, thus more opportunity for the flags) has nothing to do with how the rules are interpreted. The rule doesn't state, "You can't be hit in the head, unless you are a running QB, then you can". A helmet to helmet hit on a QB is not allowed, whether it be intentional or not. By the definition of the rule, those two examples you posted above are penalties. It doesn't matter if it was just a hair or if Vick moved to avoid a hit and was hit in the helmet.The NFL needs to be more clear and more consistent on this rule. It can't be called one way in one game and totally different in another. That is the problem with this whole issue.

Disagree with me or not... the fact is the style of passer does matter. The situation I was talking about when Pierre-Paul hits Vick with helmet to helmet Vick had slung out to the left and was threatening to run. Vick saw one defender coming in and turned around and ducked as he ducked Pierre-Paul happened to be right behind him and began dropping his shoulders to make the tackle (dropping a shoulder is 100% legal). Vick ducking from one defender made Pierre-Paul's hit into a helmet to helmet hit. However, Vick ducking also happened half a second after Pierre-Paul starts dropping for the hit. There is nobody in this world with enough reaction time to see that it is going to be a helmet hit and react to it in the time time Pierre-Paul had to react. Hence no penalty or fine.Then with the Canty hit, Canty takes his last step prior to first contact with the ball still in Vick's hand, then he lands the hit. Pretty positive the rules allow for one step for a defender in between the start of the throwing motion and first contact. When you account for the fact that Canty took his step as Vick release that would be the "one step" cushion for the hit. Vick is making this out to seem like he throws the ball and 3 seconds later gets thrown to the ground. It simply isn't how it went in that game. Sure, I wouldn't have been shocked if some of those calls were made. However, when those calls are made against other QBs I still disagree with them. I get the idea of protecting the players and all. The fact is this is football, players get hit. The harder they get on these rules the closer and closer we are getting to not even needing pass rushers anymore. Soon a QB is going to be like a dad playing catch with his kid. Pass rush will be illegal and the QB will just stand back there and play catch and the final score of a game will be closer to that of a NBA score than NFL score.

 

[Bushead]

Someone just broke down the eagles 3 games this season and Vick has been hit 47 times. 7 of those hits were on called running plays. He had 1 flag thrown in his favor on a hiti n the pocket but there were 5 other times he was hit illegaly or late while in the pocket that drew no flags.

People dont understand that these are the hits he is talking about. The ones in the pocket, not the ones where he is outside the pocket & pass the LOS. You see QBs getting flags in their favor if a defender his their helmet with their hand when trying to tip the pass while coming in. Yet Vick, for instance in sundays game, was hit late & illegally and NOTHING was called. That is why he is getting frustrated. This has been going on since last season.

That "he holds the ball too long' has no bearing on this arguement. Late & illegal hits are late & illegal hits no matter what.

Also, Pereira is an ######. Of course he is going to side with the NFL. If he really had any clue he would know that this was already brought up internally & nothing has been done about it.

Out of curiosity- was the "someone" who broke down the film an Eagles fan or an impartial observer?

I know Sal Paolantonio broke down the above yesterday on Mikey Mis' radio show. Sal's roots are in Philadelphia (he used to be a beat writer for the Inquirer) but he has been a reporter for ESPN for the last decade and a half. He's pretty pro-Birds, but he's reporting through ESPN, so take it as you want.

And what was Sal's ultimate conclusion? I'll give you a hint, Sal didn't think Vick was being treated unfairly.

Really? I think he said the exact opposite - that he agrees with Vick. podcast of segment

 

[Wrigley]

I'm assuming Vick wouldn't be complaining if they were 3-0

 

[silentmark]

Every big play he makes in the pocket he is constantly getting pummelled every down. Its B.S Dont feed me some crap about every qb gets hit like Vick because its b.s. Nobody in the league gets hit more than Vick in the pocket and i challenge anyone to tell me otherwise.I suggest you review his games. This dude gets hit on every single throw on every single down. The refs dont throw a flag or anything. People claim hes a running back, when hes trying to pass out of the pocket. Both of his injuries happened while he was in the pocket.For people that want to say he runs around to much. On both injuries he made big plays in the air and completed them.NFL needs to take notice of this crap. If Defenses fear him this much where they have to get illegal hits on him. They must fear the guys playmaking ability.Keep this football related i dont care about his past. These refs need to treat him like a QB.

Karma's a ##### get over it ...

 

[Amused to Death]

It's just going to end up being another frustrating season for Philly and somehow the blame will fall on Vick or the refs or someone other than Reid. Just like I predicted it would end with McNabb. How that Reid keeps a job is beyond me. He's the new Shottenheimer to me. He'll make your team respectable and build you up to a point but then you'll always come up short because he's just not as bright as everyone seems to think he is...it seems like every game there's a time management/field management decision that he makes that ends up screwing the team. Already this year, he decided not to challenge that interception that was obviously not an interception in that Atlanta game. The guy is a hack. Look at how they've found a way to declaw Vick of his weapons. Let him play more fluidly and let him roll out and move around...it's what the guy does. If you don't want that...then don't let the Commissioner steer that type of player your way. Reid consistently ends up blowing his way through his timeouts and leaves the team in a lurch at the end of halves. He is a coordinator and an excellent one at that...or at best, a GM...but he is not a coach and never will be.

Marty's a good comparison, but I think Sam Wyche is closer. They have coached the same number of years with the same number of NFL championships (0) and conference championships (1).Andy's agent compared him to Marv Levy. Not sure that's a compliment. But Marv has 3 more conference championships to his name. If someone guaranteed me Andy would bring 3 more Super Bowl appearances but loose them all, I'd want a new coach and take my chances at the Big Prize with someone else.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Someone just broke down the eagles 3 games this season and Vick has been hit 47 times. 7 of those hits were on called running plays. He had 1 flag thrown in his favor on a hiti n the pocket but there were 5 other times he was hit illegaly or late while in the pocket that drew no flags.

People dont understand that these are the hits he is talking about. The ones in the pocket, not the ones where he is outside the pocket & pass the LOS. You see QBs getting flags in their favor if a defender his their helmet with their hand when trying to tip the pass while coming in. Yet Vick, for instance in sundays game, was hit late & illegally and NOTHING was called. That is why he is getting frustrated. This has been going on since last season.

That "he holds the ball too long' has no bearing on this arguement. Late & illegal hits are late & illegal hits no matter what.

Also, Pereira is an ######. Of course he is going to side with the NFL. If he really had any clue he would know that this was already brought up internally & nothing has been done about it.

Out of curiosity- was the "someone" who broke down the film an Eagles fan or an impartial observer?

I know Sal Paolantonio broke down the above yesterday on Mikey Mis' radio show. Sal's roots are in Philadelphia (he used to be a beat writer for the Inquirer) but he has been a reporter for ESPN for the last decade and a half. He's pretty pro-Birds, but he's reporting through ESPN, so take it as you want.

And what was Sal's ultimate conclusion? I'll give you a hint, Sal didn't think Vick was being treated unfairly.

Really? I think he said the exact opposite - that he agrees with Vick. podcast of segment

He said that he agrees with Vick that he's getting hit more, but that he disagrees with Vick in that Vick is also getting more calls as well. And that's the crux of the issue; is Vick getting the same calls as other QBs? Sal said he was.He did think that the Canty hit should have been called, but there are close calls that refs hold back on for other players as well. I saw Eli get planted several times in that game with no call either. Jeff Triplette told the Eagles sideline that Canty hit Vick's shoulder, not his helmet. Even with slo-mo instant replay it's tough to tell for sure.

But Sal's bottom line was that Vick DOES get hit more than other QBs, but he DOES get the same rate of calls as well.

Since he has been starting, Vick has gotten more late hit/Unsportsmanlike conduct penalties than Manning, Rodgers, Brees and Brady COMBINED.

 

[Bushead]

Someone just broke down the eagles 3 games this season and Vick has been hit 47 times. 7 of those hits were on called running plays. He had 1 flag thrown in his favor on a hiti n the pocket but there were 5 other times he was hit illegaly or late while in the pocket that drew no flags.

People dont understand that these are the hits he is talking about. The ones in the pocket, not the ones where he is outside the pocket & pass the LOS. You see QBs getting flags in their favor if a defender his their helmet with their hand when trying to tip the pass while coming in. Yet Vick, for instance in sundays game, was hit late & illegally and NOTHING was called. That is why he is getting frustrated. This has been going on since last season.

That "he holds the ball too long' has no bearing on this arguement. Late & illegal hits are late & illegal hits no matter what.

Also, Pereira is an ######. Of course he is going to side with the NFL. If he really had any clue he would know that this was already brought up internally & nothing has been done about it.

Out of curiosity- was the "someone" who broke down the film an Eagles fan or an impartial observer?

I know Sal Paolantonio broke down the above yesterday on Mikey Mis' radio show. Sal's roots are in Philadelphia (he used to be a beat writer for the Inquirer) but he has been a reporter for ESPN for the last decade and a half. He's pretty pro-Birds, but he's reporting through ESPN, so take it as you want.

And what was Sal's ultimate conclusion? I'll give you a hint, Sal didn't think Vick was being treated unfairly.

Really? I think he said the exact opposite - that he agrees with Vick. podcast of segment

He said that he agrees with Vick that he's getting hit more, but that he disagrees with Vick in that Vick is also getting more calls as well. And that's the crux of the issue; is Vick getting the same calls as other QBs? Sal said he was.He did think that the Canty hit should have been called, but there are close calls that refs hold back on for other players as well. I saw Eli get planted several times in that game with no call either. Jeff Triplette told the Eagles sideline that Canty hit Vick's shoulder, not his helmet. Even with slo-mo instant replay it's tough to tell for sure.

But Sal's bottom line was that Vick DOES get hit more than other QBs, but he DOES get the same rate of calls as well.

Since he has been starting, Vick has gotten more late hit/Unsportsmanlike conduct penalties than Manning, Rodgers, Brees and Brady COMBINED.

Maybe I am listening to a differnt segment than you? Sal doesn't say any of the above in the podcast at the link above. He opens the M&M segment saying - I agree and think MV is right, he is getting hit late and it is not getting called. I didn't hear Sal compare Vick to other QB's, other than to say in 2011 that Vick has been hit 50 times compared to Brady being hit 9. They talk about other missed calls, but I heard no comparison on the rate of calls Vick gets vs other QBs

 

[RudeDog]

Vick wants those "Super Star aka NFL-loves-you *wink* *wink*" calls like Manning or Brady, but maybe somebody should tell him in order to get those flags he needs to win at least two super bowl like Manning or Brady. Vick should just keep selling tickets and stop whining.

Umm... are you sewing the two brothers together for that one?

 

[fred_1_15301]

Someone just broke down the eagles 3 games this season and Vick has been hit 47 times. 7 of those hits were on called running plays. He had 1 flag thrown in his favor on a hiti n the pocket but there were 5 other times he was hit illegaly or late while in the pocket that drew no flags.

People dont understand that these are the hits he is talking about. The ones in the pocket, not the ones where he is outside the pocket & pass the LOS. You see QBs getting flags in their favor if a defender his their helmet with their hand when trying to tip the pass while coming in. Yet Vick, for instance in sundays game, was hit late & illegally and NOTHING was called. That is why he is getting frustrated. This has been going on since last season.

That "he holds the ball too long' has no bearing on this arguement. Late & illegal hits are late & illegal hits no matter what.

Also, Pereira is an ######. Of course he is going to side with the NFL. If he really had any clue he would know that this was already brought up internally & nothing has been done about it.

Out of curiosity- was the "someone" who broke down the film an Eagles fan or an impartial observer?

I know Sal Paolantonio broke down the above yesterday on Mikey Mis' radio show. Sal's roots are in Philadelphia (he used to be a beat writer for the Inquirer) but he has been a reporter for ESPN for the last decade and a half. He's pretty pro-Birds, but he's reporting through ESPN, so take it as you want.

And what was Sal's ultimate conclusion? I'll give you a hint, Sal didn't think Vick was being treated unfairly.

Really? I think he said the exact opposite - that he agrees with Vick. podcast of segment

He said that he agrees with Vick that he's getting hit more, but that he disagrees with Vick in that Vick is also getting more calls as well. And that's the crux of the issue; is Vick getting the same calls as other QBs? Sal said he was.He did think that the Canty hit should have been called, but there are close calls that refs hold back on for other players as well. I saw Eli get planted several times in that game with no call either. Jeff Triplette told the Eagles sideline that Canty hit Vick's shoulder, not his helmet. Even with slo-mo instant replay it's tough to tell for sure.

But Sal's bottom line was that Vick DOES get hit more than other QBs, but he DOES get the same rate of calls as well.

Since he has been starting, Vick has gotten more late hit/Unsportsmanlike conduct penalties than Manning, Rodgers, Brees and Brady COMBINED.

This is the way I heard it when i listened to Sal live a couple days ago. Haven't listened to the podcast yet so I'm not sure if Sal has changed his stance?

 

[unckeyherb]

This is the way I heard it when i listened to Sal live a couple days ago. Haven't listened to the podcast yet so I'm not sure if Sal has changed his stance?

The first words out of his mouth: "I think Michael Vick is Right. I think he is getting hit late and its not getting called."

 

[fred_1_15301]

This is the way I heard it when i listened to Sal live a couple days ago. Haven't listened to the podcast yet so I'm not sure if Sal has changed his stance?

The first words out of his mouth: "I think Michael Vick is Right. I think he is getting hit late and its not getting called."

Maybe but I thought his overall point was that he wasn't getting hit late (and unflagged) proportionally more than other qbs. I could be wrong though.....I'll obviously need to listen to the podcast. The most important thing out of this will be to see what happens if Vick plays on Sunday. Will he get bad calls in his favor? Will the refs ignore late hits? Will anything change at all?

 

[Manster]

i've seen some mention consistency. this is the key. And not just for QB's. If you hit a guy hard you might get flagged and fined. ask Allan Ball. Luckily that penalty didnt affect the outcome of the game. It almost did.

Vick just sounds like a whiny ##### to me. the hits i've seen on him (not all) that dont get flags, seemed legal to me.

 

[unckeyherb]

i've seen some mention consistency. this is the key. And not just for QB's. If you hit a guy hard you might get flagged and fined. ask Allan Ball. Luckily that penalty didnt affect the outcome of the game. It almost did.Vick just sounds like a whiny ##### to me. the hits i've seen on him (not all) that dont get flags, seemed legal to me.

Here are two scenarios, 1. Trent Cole is about to sack Peyton Manning. He reaches up to swipe from behind at the ball while Manning is releasing and his finger grazes the back of Manning's helmet.2. A DE rushing Vick in the pocket, sees Vick throwing and pulls up as Vick releases but still manages to run into him and knocks him down. Explain to me why the Manning 'hit' is a 15 yard foul and the knockdown on Vick is nothing. Don't say its subjective, because thats the whole point Vick is trying to make. #2 seemingly happens on every other passing play IN THE POCKET. If I had the time and the know how I would link footage of it.

 

[TobiasFunke]

i've seen some mention consistency. this is the key. And not just for QB's. If you hit a guy hard you might get flagged and fined. ask Allan Ball. Luckily that penalty didnt affect the outcome of the game. It almost did.Vick just sounds like a whiny ##### to me. the hits i've seen on him (not all) that dont get flags, seemed legal to me.

Here are two scenarios, 1. Trent Cole is about to sack Peyton Manning. He reaches up to swipe from behind at the ball while Manning is releasing and his finger grazes the back of Manning's helmet.2. A DE rushing Vick in the pocket, sees Vick throwing and pulls up as Vick releases but still manages to run into him and knocks him down. Explain to me why the Manning 'hit' is a 15 yard foul and the knockdown on Vick is nothing. Don't say its subjective, because thats the whole point Vick is trying to make. #2 seemingly happens on every other passing play IN THE POCKET. If I had the time and the know how I would link footage of it.

It's hard to say without the footage, and if we're forced to rely on your descriptions it's inherently subjective. But I believe there's different rules applicable to head/helmet contact and body contact. So that's a pretty bad example to choose.But more importantly, you can't say if someone is treated unfairly by comparing two incidents. If so every player is treated unfairly because everyone has contact on them that was missed that should have been called, and there's plenty of examples of calls that were made but shouldn't have been made to compare it to. It's a silly argument from the start. The only way to properly argue the point is to look at all the data, and every single person who has done that has concluded that the treatment of Vick is fair and in line with the rest of the league's QBs. Until you can show otherwise, all you're doing is offering up subjective perceptions (I notice you're from Philly) and arguments based on cherry-picked case studies.

 

[Bushead]

i've seen some mention consistency. this is the key. And not just for QB's. If you hit a guy hard you might get flagged and fined. ask Allan Ball. Luckily that penalty didnt affect the outcome of the game. It almost did.

Vick just sounds like a whiny ##### to me. the hits i've seen on him (not all) that dont get flags, seemed legal to me.

Here are two scenarios, 1. Trent Cole is about to sack Peyton Manning. He reaches up to swipe from behind at the ball while Manning is releasing and his finger grazes the back of Manning's helmet.

2. A DE rushing Vick in the pocket, sees Vick throwing and pulls up as Vick releases but still manages to run into him and knocks him down.

Explain to me why the Manning 'hit' is a 15 yard foul and the knockdown on Vick is nothing. Don't say its subjective, because thats the whole point Vick is trying to make. #2 seemingly happens on every other passing play IN THE POCKET. If I had the time and the know how I would link footage of it.

example 2 (25 second mark)

edit: agree with the above this doesn't prove anything, just posting links to the examples

 

[Dexter Manley]

Looks like Vick got lucky and somehow avoided a fine for criticizing the refs.

 

[unckeyherb]

It's hard to say without the footage, and if we're forced to rely on your descriptions it's inherently subjective. But I believe there's different rules applicable to head/helmet contact and body contact. So that's a pretty bad example to choose.But more importantly, you can't say if someone is treated unfairly by comparing two incidents. If so every player is treated unfairly because everyone has contact on them that was missed that should have been called, and there's plenty of examples of calls that were made but shouldn't have been made to compare it to. It's a silly argument from the start. The only way to properly argue the point is to look at all the data, and every single person who has done that has concluded that the treatment of Vick is fair and in line with the rest of the league's QBs. Until you can show otherwise, all you're doing is offering up subjective perceptions (I notice you're from Philly) and arguments based on cherry-picked case studies.

I don't believe there is any difference. Roughing the passer is roughing the passer. Its also silly to ask someone to post every single example of late hits on Vick (I wouldn't even know where to start-though, maybe someone is working on that right now out in cyberspace.) Every single person has absolutely not concluded that the hits are fair. There has been a pretty good split from what I've seen/heard. I'm from Philly, doesn't mean I'm blind. Again, all studies are cherry picked guy, unless like I said, I link every single hit I think was late and not called. I don't have the time/ability/desire to go through that pointless exercise. In the end its all subjective anyways.

 

[unckeyherb]

I don't see how that last hit isn't a penalty. The ball is out of his hands and Canty kept running and lowered his helmet into Vick's chest and ran through the hit. And for the guy above that thinks everyone disagrees, listen to this linked commentary-they agree that he is getting hit a ton, they agree that he is not getting the late hit calls, they are validating it however, based on the fact that he is a mobile QB. Whatever, agree to disagree.

 

[fred_1_15301]

It's hard to say without the footage, and if we're forced to rely on your descriptions it's inherently subjective. But I believe there's different rules applicable to head/helmet contact and body contact. So that's a pretty bad example to choose.But more importantly, you can't say if someone is treated unfairly by comparing two incidents. If so every player is treated unfairly because everyone has contact on them that was missed that should have been called, and there's plenty of examples of calls that were made but shouldn't have been made to compare it to. It's a silly argument from the start. The only way to properly argue the point is to look at all the data, and every single person who has done that has concluded that the treatment of Vick is fair and in line with the rest of the league's QBs. Until you can show otherwise, all you're doing is offering up subjective perceptions (I notice you're from Philly) and arguments based on cherry-picked case studies.

I don't believe there is any difference. Roughing the passer is roughing the passer. Its also silly to ask someone to post every single example of late hits on Vick (I wouldn't even know where to start-though, maybe someone is working on that right now out in cyberspace.) Every single person has absolutely not concluded that the hits are fair. There has been a pretty good split from what I've seen/heard. I'm from Philly, doesn't mean I'm blind. Again, all studies are cherry picked guy, unless like I said, I link every single hit I think was late and not called. I don't have the time/ability/desire to go through that pointless exercise. In the end its all subjective anyways.

Picking 2 examples doesn't prove anything. If you want to compare Manning with Vick, you have to compare the entire body of work. Among all hits that Manning takes, what proportion of those hits are illegal but unflagged. Among all hits that Vick takes, what proportion of those hits are illegal but unflagged. Show that the proportion for Vick is much higher than the proportion for Manning and you have a much better case IMHO. Vick and Philly fans are the ones complaining that Vick is being treated differently so the onus is on them to support their case.

 

[TobiasFunke]

It's hard to say without the footage, and if we're forced to rely on your descriptions it's inherently subjective. But I believe there's different rules applicable to head/helmet contact and body contact. So that's a pretty bad example to choose.

But more importantly, you can't say if someone is treated unfairly by comparing two incidents. If so every player is treated unfairly because everyone has contact on them that was missed that should have been called, and there's plenty of examples of calls that were made but shouldn't have been made to compare it to. It's a silly argument from the start. The only way to properly argue the point is to look at all the data, and every single person who has done that has concluded that the treatment of Vick is fair and in line with the rest of the league's QBs. Until you can show otherwise, all you're doing is offering up subjective perceptions (I notice you're from Philly) and arguments based on cherry-picked case studies.

I don't believe there is any difference. Roughing the passer is roughing the passer. Its also silly to ask someone to post every single example of late hits on Vick (I wouldn't even know where to start-though, maybe someone is working on that right now out in cyberspace.) Every single person has absolutely not concluded that the hits are fair. There has been a pretty good split from what I've seen/heard. I'm from Philly, doesn't mean I'm blind. Again, all studies are cherry picked guy, unless like I said, I link every single hit I think was late and not called. I don't have the time/ability/desire to go through that pointless exercise. In the end its all subjective anyways.

That would be a good argument if they called roughing the passer on the Cole hit on Manning. But they didn't. They called unnecessary roughness- blow to the head. Possibly this rule:

15 Yards (and disqualification if flagrant)..

.

Striking opponent on head or neck with forearm, elbow, or hands whether or not the initial contact is made below the neck area.

LinkIt's bad enough drawing conclusions based on a single case study, but if you're gonna do it at least compare apples to apples.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Example 2 was an illegal hit and should have been flagged. Still doesn't prove his case to me. You watch every Eagles game and so you see the late hits that are being uncalled. Do you watch all the games for other QBs as well? If not, I'm not sure how you can say that he is being treated unfairly relative to his peers.

 

[Bushead]

I was just agreeing that 2 examples don't prove an overall bias/problem - I think Canty should have been a penalty. It was a late hit that he followed through on after the ball was clearly no longer in Vick's hands AND it was helmet to helmet

 

[Bushead]

It's hard to say without the footage, and if we're forced to rely on your descriptions it's inherently subjective. But I believe there's different rules applicable to head/helmet contact and body contact. So that's a pretty bad example to choose.

But more importantly, you can't say if someone is treated unfairly by comparing two incidents. If so every player is treated unfairly because everyone has contact on them that was missed that should have been called, and there's plenty of examples of calls that were made but shouldn't have been made to compare it to. It's a silly argument from the start. The only way to properly argue the point is to look at all the data, and every single person who has done that has concluded that the treatment of Vick is fair and in line with the rest of the league's QBs. Until you can show otherwise, all you're doing is offering up subjective perceptions (I notice you're from Philly) and arguments based on cherry-picked case studies.

I don't believe there is any difference. Roughing the passer is roughing the passer. Its also silly to ask someone to post every single example of late hits on Vick (I wouldn't even know where to start-though, maybe someone is working on that right now out in cyberspace.) Every single person has absolutely not concluded that the hits are fair. There has been a pretty good split from what I've seen/heard. I'm from Philly, doesn't mean I'm blind. Again, all studies are cherry picked guy, unless like I said, I link every single hit I think was late and not called. I don't have the time/ability/desire to go through that pointless exercise. In the end its all subjective anyways.

That would be a good argument if they called roughing the passer on the Cole hit on Manning. But they didn't. They called unnecessary roughness- blow to the head. Possibly this rule:

15 Yards (and disqualification if flagrant)..

.

Striking opponent on head or neck with forearm, elbow, or hands whether or not the initial contact is made below the neck area.

LinkIt's bad enough drawing conclusions based on a single case study, but if you're gonna do it at least compare apples to apples.

Does it really matter? The point was/is that Manning and others are protected in a differnt manner than Vick. Are you suggesting that opposing players are never allowed to touch the other teams's helmets? and that when they do they are getting 15 yard penalties? I think it is apples to apples for the purpose of this discussion - and isn't helmet to helmet contact unnecessary roughnessc call too?

 

[[icon]]

maybe if vick could read defenses, he wouldnt hold onto the ball so long.

The problem is Vick is just not very smart... slow at reading defenses so he can't release the ball quickly. Couple that with a crappy O line for the eagles and you have what we're seeing.

 

[unckeyherb]

It's hard to say without the footage, and if we're forced to rely on your descriptions it's inherently subjective. But I believe there's different rules applicable to head/helmet contact and body contact. So that's a pretty bad example to choose.

But more importantly, you can't say if someone is treated unfairly by comparing two incidents. If so every player is treated unfairly because everyone has contact on them that was missed that should have been called, and there's plenty of examples of calls that were made but shouldn't have been made to compare it to. It's a silly argument from the start. The only way to properly argue the point is to look at all the data, and every single person who has done that has concluded that the treatment of Vick is fair and in line with the rest of the league's QBs. Until you can show otherwise, all you're doing is offering up subjective perceptions (I notice you're from Philly) and arguments based on cherry-picked case studies.

I don't believe there is any difference. Roughing the passer is roughing the passer. Its also silly to ask someone to post every single example of late hits on Vick (I wouldn't even know where to start-though, maybe someone is working on that right now out in cyberspace.) Every single person has absolutely not concluded that the hits are fair. There has been a pretty good split from what I've seen/heard. I'm from Philly, doesn't mean I'm blind. Again, all studies are cherry picked guy, unless like I said, I link every single hit I think was late and not called. I don't have the time/ability/desire to go through that pointless exercise. In the end its all subjective anyways.

That would be a good argument if they called roughing the passer on the Cole hit on Manning. But they didn't. They called unnecessary roughness- blow to the head. Possibly this rule:

15 Yards (and disqualification if flagrant)..

.

Striking opponent on head or neck with forearm, elbow, or hands whether or not the initial contact is made below the neck area.

LinkIt's bad enough drawing conclusions based on a single case study, but if you're gonna do it at least compare apples to apples.

Fair enough, my point still remains. I am citing two examples-one where there was almost no contact and one where there was enough contact to knock the QB down. The calls were totally different.Regarding watching the games, yes, I've seen all the hits Vick has taken and am attesting to there being a lot of non-calls when there should been flags. I don't watch every single game, so I can't run down the proportions of hits vs. illegal hits vs. unflagged illegal hits for every player in the league. From my couch, in the games that I watch, Vick gets hits more than almost anyone else, he gets hit late more than anyone else and while he gets more calls than anyone else, he also gets more non-calls than everyone else. You want to believe that he's just being a #####, fine. I'm not here to convert you.

 

[TobiasFunke]

It's hard to say without the footage, and if we're forced to rely on your descriptions it's inherently subjective. But I believe there's different rules applicable to head/helmet contact and body contact. So that's a pretty bad example to choose.

But more importantly, you can't say if someone is treated unfairly by comparing two incidents. If so every player is treated unfairly because everyone has contact on them that was missed that should have been called, and there's plenty of examples of calls that were made but shouldn't have been made to compare it to. It's a silly argument from the start. The only way to properly argue the point is to look at all the data, and every single person who has done that has concluded that the treatment of Vick is fair and in line with the rest of the league's QBs. Until you can show otherwise, all you're doing is offering up subjective perceptions (I notice you're from Philly) and arguments based on cherry-picked case studies.

I don't believe there is any difference. Roughing the passer is roughing the passer. Its also silly to ask someone to post every single example of late hits on Vick (I wouldn't even know where to start-though, maybe someone is working on that right now out in cyberspace.) Every single person has absolutely not concluded that the hits are fair. There has been a pretty good split from what I've seen/heard. I'm from Philly, doesn't mean I'm blind. Again, all studies are cherry picked guy, unless like I said, I link every single hit I think was late and not called. I don't have the time/ability/desire to go through that pointless exercise. In the end its all subjective anyways.

That would be a good argument if they called roughing the passer on the Cole hit on Manning. But they didn't. They called unnecessary roughness- blow to the head. Possibly this rule:

15 Yards (and disqualification if flagrant)..

.

Striking opponent on head or neck with forearm, elbow, or hands whether or not the initial contact is made below the neck area.

LinkIt's bad enough drawing conclusions based on a single case study, but if you're gonna do it at least compare apples to apples.

Fair enough, my point still remains. I am citing two examples-one where there was almost no contact and one where there was enough contact to knock the QB down. The calls were totally different.Regarding watching the games, yes, I've seen all the hits Vick has taken and am attesting to there being a lot of non-calls when there should been flags. I don't watch every single game, so I can't run down the proportions of hits vs. illegal hits vs. unflagged illegal hits for every player in the league. From my couch, in the games that I watch, Vick gets hits more than almost anyone else, he gets hit late more than anyone else and while he gets more calls than anyone else, he also gets more non-calls than everyone else. You want to believe that he's just being a #####, fine. I'm not here to convert you.

I don't see how your point remains. You can't compare the two because you're talking about two different penalties. You might as well compare the hit on Vick that you think should have been a roughing the passer to a block in the back penalty. Otherwise, sure, believe what you want. You're a Philly fan. I asked for evidence from someone other than a Philly fan perspective, and I didn't get it. I think that's telling, but given your perspective I certainly don't intend to convince you. I just wanted to gauge it for myself, and the data from Mike Pereira combined with the lack of anything to contradict it other than subjective evaluations from Philly fans tells me all I need to know.

 

[Mario Kart]

You know, Brett Favre got hit a lot in his days. He also had many injuries in his days of playing. How many late hit calls did Favre receive? Just curious.

Hell, the Packers could have had more Super Bowls had Favre received more late hit calls. And, the Vikings may have had one more Super Bowl appearance had some late hit calls been called during that NFC game. I don't recall ever hearing Favre mention getting hit late and not getting flags.

And, he was the face of the NFL, in the medias eyes, for how many years? Yeah, Vick has a complaint and he also has the answer... play better.