Missing Malaysian jet news (1 Viewer)

[culdeus]

I work in the battery industry. Our company has a policy of never shipping with commercial airlines. We can't even hand carry cells on planes. They have to go fedex. China usually doesn't allow them to come in commercial either. They are one of the hardest countries for me to get cells into. I route them through hong kong and then they go by truck to Shenzhen otherwise they could get heldup for a month in customs.

 

[Doug B]

More from Das Boot's link -- it's really required reading for anyone following this thread:

These batteries were for consumer electronic products like laptops and cell phones, not the much more powerful industrial-strength lithium-ion batteries that provide power to the systems of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, batteries that caused fire emergencies and the grounding the 787 fleet.An expert on lithium-ion technology, Dr. Victor Ettel, told me: “The organic electrolyte in lithium-ion batteries decomposes at very high temperatures, generating very toxic fumes typically containing compounds of fluorine and arsenic. Regulation packaging would inhibit the potential of open fire and therefore enhance the probability of generating toxic gases.”

In the case of the fire at Boston Logan airport in January 2013, caustic smoke originating the lower rear electronics bay very quickly filled the cabin. Since the 787 was parked at the gate and the cabin was empty there were no casualties in the cabin (firefighters who worked in the electronics bay were injured). Had the airplane been in the air, the smoke would have been lethal to both passengers and crew.

This raises the issue of whether such an event could incapacitate passengers and crew and yet leave an airplane able to fly itself.

Lithium-ion batteries do not represent a fully mastered science. An NTSB hearing on the 787 battery emergencies revealed that Boeing had subcontracted battery design to a French company, Thales, who in turn had subcontracted it to a Japanese company. The Japanese admitted that the technology was “not mature.” (The pressure to employ lithium-ion batteries comes from their ability to deliver more power for a lot less weight.)

Boeing disputed that the events were even fires. They said it would be more accurate to describe them as the venting of gases. However they are described, the effects are serious. There is no experience of lithium-ion batteries “venting” into an airplane cabin at cruise altitude and therefore no knowledge of whether, after such an event, the chain reaction that started it would stop for lack of oxygen.

Experts who have studied the erratic trajectory of MH370 after it made its turn told me that it could be attributed to the pilots dealing with the effects of either smoke, fire or a loss of oxygen due to a slow decompression of the air inside the airplane. In the case of a decompression the first response is to lose altitude as fast as possible, to get below 10,000 feet, in order to stabilize air pressure and remove the need for oxygen masks.

Reports that, instead, the 777 soared as high as 45,000 feet before rapidly falling are viewed with deep skepticism. As I have already reported, the airplane was heavy with fuel and would have struggled to reach even 38,000 feet.

Not sure what the author's source is for the bolded in blue, though I'd heard it third-hand from other people. Speaks to jon_mx's earlier point that a lot of what we "know" right now just isn't true.

 

[tjnc09]

UPS Flight 6 was the plane that crashed because of a fire from one of these batteries in 2010.

What if the Malaysian Airline had a block of these batteries packaged improperly violating the FAA standards for commercial airlines - it would definitely make sense for them to try to cover their asses and delay the hopes of finding the plane.

Also, hypoxia causes disorientation. I still can logically believe the co-pilot said good night out of confusion.

 

[Doug B]

The lithium-ion battery information keeps the Goodfellow analysis ( http://www.wired.com...lectrical-fire/ ) in play, just with a difference source for the smioke (or suffocating gasses, I suppose).

 

[culdeus]

The thought that in isolated cell under no load would just start outgassing is really preposterous.

 

[tjnc09]

The thought that in isolated cell under no load would just start outgassing is really preposterous.

Could someone create a simple device to make one catch on fire? Say a terrorist used it instead of a bomb. Smoke and small fire is equally deadly as a bomb on a plane in flight.

 

[tjnc09]

I can't find the reason why the battery on UPS Flight 6 caught on fire

 

[Sinn Fein]

Seems rather dubious that the plane would catch on fire, and it would continue to fly until fuel exhaustion. At some point you would think a fire would create problems for the airframe.

 

[culdeus]

The thought that in isolated cell under no load would just start outgassing is really preposterous.

Could someone create a simple device to make one catch on fire? Say a terrorist used it instead of a bomb. Smoke and small fire is equally deadly as a bomb on a plane in flight.

It would be a real stretch to take lets say an iphone or laptop battery and rig it to explode.

The biggest risk of explosion in a battery is over charging. So you would have to disable the high side protector and fuses and then find a way to continue to charge it past the safe range, lets say 4.5V-ish while actually on the plane.

Still you would need something the size of a carry on to really do any damage. We have had batteries blow up here from time to time with nobody getting too hurt.

Of course you could force them to outgass if you shorted them out, but modern liion cells have self extinguishing resin around it.

The biggest risk, is a battery that runs off in the weeds gets quite hot.

 

[Doug B]

Sinn, don't think a fire is being posited here.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Jimmy Hoffa must've been flying this thing.

 

[17seconds]

I see CNN is now saying "The pilot made a phone call from his cell before the plane left."



Well, now I'm convinced it was suicide. What person in their right mind uses a phone before leaving the country?

And he had FILES on his flight simulator computer that were DELETED!

 

[tjnc09]

The thought that in isolated cell under no load would just start outgassing is really preposterous.

Could someone create a simple device to make one catch on fire? Say a terrorist used it instead of a bomb. Smoke and small fire is equally deadly as a bomb on a plane in flight.

It would be a real stretch to take lets say an iphone or laptop battery and rig it to explode.

The biggest risk of explosion in a battery is over charging. So you would have to disable the high side protector and fuses and then find a way to continue to charge it past the safe range, lets say 4.5V-ish while actually on the plane.

Still you would need something the size of a carry on to really do any damage. We have had batteries blow up here from time to time with nobody getting too hurt.

Of course you could force them to outgass if you shorted them out, but modern liion cells have self extinguishing resin around it.

The biggest risk, is a battery that runs off in the weeds gets quite hot.

What do you think happened on the UPS flight to cause one to catch fire? I can not find any reasonable explanation. It was supposedly a very hot and Id guess humid night when 370 departed.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

UPS Flight 6 was the plane that crashed because of a fire from one of these batteries in 2010.

What if the Malaysian Airline had a block of these batteries packaged improperly violating the FAA standards for commercial airlines - it would definitely make sense for them to try to cover their asses and delay the hopes of finding the plane.

Also, hypoxia causes disorientation. I still can logically believe the co-pilot said good night out of confusion.

I thought it was well established this was common for pilots to say as they enter and leave different air spaces.

 

[tjnc09]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/03/accident-report-lithium-batteries-ups-plane/

Crazy how little time the pilots have once smoke/fire is detected. It also supports the assumption that nothing makes sense with all of the confusion and lack of visibility in regards to how the plane is being operated.

 

[tjnc09]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/03/accident-report-lithium-batteries-ups-plane/

Crazy how little time the pilots have once smoke/fire is detected. It also supports the assumption that nothing makes sense with all of the confusion and lack of visibility in regards to how the plane is being operated.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_planes_bomb_plot

Al Qaeda actually took responsibility for that crash. Perhaps they created a bomb to look like a battery - it didn't detonate but rather sparked and caught on fire.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Seems rather dubious that the plane would catch on fire, and it would continue to fly until fuel exhaustion. At some point you would think a fire would create problems for the airframe.

Some damn good piloting to know that they needed to turn the plane back before it was on fire too.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Telegraph report of transcript between plane and various ATC

A couple of oddities pointed out. But keep in mind its a translated transcript.

 

[JetMaxx]

Telegraph report of transcript between plane and various ATC

A couple of oddities pointed out. But keep in mind its a translated transcript.

The other odd feature, one reason for suspicions that the plane’s disappearance was no accident, was that its loss of communication and subsequent sharp turn west occurred at the handover from air traffic controllers in Kuala Lumpur to those in Ho Chi Minh City.

“If I was going to steal the aeroplane, that would be the point I would do it,” said Stephen Buzdygan, a former British Airways pilot who flew 777s.

“There might be a bit of dead space between the air traffic controllers … It was the only time during the flight they would maybe not have been able to be seen from the ground.”

The main reason why I have felt from the beginning that this was no accident.

 

[Sand]

CNN saying the currents could have caused the wreckage to drift 1100 miles. The search area is 1500 miles from Australia. A few more days and they should be able to search the beaches.

Or Antarctica

Brings up a new theory. Can you land a 777 on a huge sheet of ice, refuel, and take off again. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned salt flats.

Did the deleted files on the pilot's computer include Firefox?

Wow - theres an old reference...

That is a classic. Still comes on TNT every once in a while.

 

[Sand]

Unless this plane flies into a landmark in the next few weeks, it's seems highly unlikely we will ever know exactly what happened. The conditions off the coast of Australia sound miserable.

Heard an interview with an Australian professor who said there have been more people in the international space station than on that patch of ocean. It is the figurative end of the world.

 

[Das Boot]

Malaysia Airlines flight not hijacked says Lockerbie expert

This article is from the future Saturday 22 March 2014

Of interest:

The fire onboard could have knocked out the aircraft’s transponder and the Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS), he said.
The disabling of the two systems has been used as evidence of foul play but Mr Vincent said shutting down the ACARS deliberately would involve a complicated process, beyond the training of most pilots.

 

[Otis]

CNN has had the BREAKING NEWS banner up for two weeks now, but really there has been no news since the plane disappeared. THIS JUST IN -- A GUY HAS A THEORY.

 

[Fennis]

Jimmy Hoffa must've been flying this thing.

have they looked under the endzone of the Meadowlands for the plane?

 

[bigmarc27]

Can someone give me a quick summation of this entire story?

Plane disappears and no one knows where it went... is that about the gist of it or am I missing something?

 

[SacramentoBob]

Can someone give me a quick summation of this entire story?

Plane disappears and no one knows where it went... is that about the gist of it or am I missing something?

That about sums up all the reliable info we have.

 

[Christo]

Well?

 

[KCitons]

Can someone give me a quick summation of this entire story?

Plane disappears and no one knows where it went... is that about the gist of it or am I missing something?

Yep, you now know as much as the prime minister of Malaysia.

 

[KCitons]

BREAKING: (not really)

Iran is building a replica Nimitz class aircraft carrier.

I think we can conclude that Iran stole MH370 to use in conjunction with this carrier.

 

[jon_mx]

BREAKING: (not really)

Iran is building a replica Nimitz class aircraft carrier.

I think we can conclude that Iran stole MH370 to use in conjunction with this carrier.

Stealing my theory that China stole it for their carrier.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Can someone give me a quick summation of this entire story?

Plane disappears and no one knows where it went... is that about the gist of it or am I missing something?

That about sums up all the reliable info we have.

To follow-up... It is either in the ocean, landed somewhere, or sucked into a black-hole.

 

[culdeus]

The thought that in isolated cell under no load would just start outgassing is really preposterous.

Could someone create a simple device to make one catch on fire? Say a terrorist used it instead of a bomb. Smoke and small fire is equally deadly as a bomb on a plane in flight.

It would be a real stretch to take lets say an iphone or laptop battery and rig it to explode.

The biggest risk of explosion in a battery is over charging. So you would have to disable the high side protector and fuses and then find a way to continue to charge it past the safe range, lets say 4.5V-ish while actually on the plane.

Still you would need something the size of a carry on to really do any damage. We have had batteries blow up here from time to time with nobody getting too hurt.

Of course you could force them to outgass if you shorted them out, but modern liion cells have self extinguishing resin around it.

The biggest risk, is a battery that runs off in the weeds gets quite hot.

What do you think happened on the UPS flight to cause one to catch fire? I can not find any reasonable explanation. It was supposedly a very hot and Id guess humid night when 370 departed.

I'm not sure. We move lots of cells. Anything that's flying like that is probably EVT material. Most cells for mass production are made and sealed in the same country. Anything early production could easily have a defect that could be triggered by cold temps or low air pressure.

All it would take is one bad cell heating up and you could get runaway in all it's neighbors.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Can someone give me a quick summation of this entire story?

Plane disappears and no one knows where it went... is that about the gist of it or am I missing something?

At least 339 people know where it went.

 

[KCitons]

Can someone give me a quick summation of this entire story?

Plane disappears and no one knows where it went... is that about the gist of it or am I missing something?

At least 339 people know where it went.

239 on board? who are the other 100 people?

 

[Fennis]

Can someone give me a quick summation of this entire story?

Plane disappears and no one knows where it went... is that about the gist of it or am I missing something?

At least 339 people know where it went.

are you one of the extra 100?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Can someone give me a quick summation of this entire story?

Plane disappears and no one knows where it went... is that about the gist of it or am I missing something?

At least 339 people know where it went.

are you one of the extra 100?

oops, 239. Well 240 if you count the Malaysian transportation Minister.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Maybe old news, CNN reported last night that it could take more than a month to cover even the narrowed search grid with the Australian resources, but maybe they will get help with other assets?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Well?

What are your sources saying?

 

[KCitons]

Well?

What are your sources saying?

His sources are saying Wayne Knight was on the plane.

 

[T Bell]

Telegraph report of transcript between plane and various ATC

A couple of oddities pointed out. But keep in mind its a translated transcript.

I believe that all international ATC communications is in English.

EDIT- nevermind, I see the footnote about this being translated from Mandarin. My statement above is correct, however, which means that the actual communications were in English, translated to Mandarin, and then translated back into English.

 

[T Bell]

Telegraph report of transcript between plane and various ATC

A couple of oddities pointed out. But keep in mind its a translated transcript.

The other odd feature, one reason for suspicions that the plane’s disappearance was no accident, was that its loss of communication and subsequent sharp turn west occurred at the handover from air traffic controllers in Kuala Lumpur to those in Ho Chi Minh City.

“If I was going to steal the aeroplane, that would be the point I would do it,” said Stephen Buzdygan, a former British Airways pilot who flew 777s.

“There might be a bit of dead space between the air traffic controllers … It was the only time during the flight they would maybe not have been able to be seen from the ground.”

The main reason why I have felt from the beginning that this was no accident.

And yet we do live in a world where coincidences occur however suspicious they may be in hindsight, so...

 

[ChiefD]

Well?

What are your sources saying?

His sources are saying Wayne Knight was on the plane.

Newman. :jerryseinfeldvoice:

 

[T Bell]

Jimmy Hoffa must've been flying this thing.

have they looked under the endzone of the Meadowlands for the plane?

Well, the plane's possible flight arcs do intersect with Newjerseystan, so...

 

[JetMaxx]

Telegraph report of transcript between plane and various ATC

A couple of oddities pointed out. But keep in mind its a translated transcript.

The other odd feature, one reason for suspicions that the plane’s disappearance was no accident, was that its loss of communication and subsequent sharp turn west occurred at the handover from air traffic controllers in Kuala Lumpur to those in Ho Chi Minh City.

“If I was going to steal the aeroplane, that would be the point I would do it,” said Stephen Buzdygan, a former British Airways pilot who flew 777s.

“There might be a bit of dead space between the air traffic controllers … It was the only time during the flight they would maybe not have been able to be seen from the ground.”

The main reason why I have felt from the beginning that this was no accident.

And yet we do live in a world where coincidences occur however suspicious they may be in hindsight, so...

There are thousands of flights per day, let alone per year, etc, but the one that disappeared did this??

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

CNN has a psychic on... [ETA: it's Headline News]

Psychics almost always say that the missing person is near a body of water, because that's pretty much always true. Pretty much everywhere humans go is near a lake or a stream or a pond or a river or a pool or something like that.

In this case, that would seem even less helpful than usual.

 

[KCitons]

Breaking News ‏@BreakingNews 17m
Fire reported in cargo hold on a Fedex plane about to land at Spokane Airport; an extrication has been requested - @KHQLocalNew

Lithium Batteries?

The plane hasn't even landed yet, but we are getting twitter updates.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Little known fact: lithium batteries sunk the Titanic.

 

[mr. furley]

Can someone give me a quick summation of this entire story?

Plane disappears and no one knows where it went... is that about the gist of it or am I missing something?

That about sums up all the reliable info we have.

To follow-up... It is either in the ocean, landed somewhere, or sucked into a black-hole.

if my last ex-gf had done this she would have posted about it on facebook by now

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Can someone give me a quick summation of this entire story?

Plane disappears and no one knows where it went... is that about the gist of it or am I missing something?

That about sums up all the reliable info we have.

To follow-up... It is either in the ocean, landed somewhere, or sucked into a black-hole.

if my last ex-gf had done this she would have posted about it on facebook by now

Sherry from LaPointe?

 

[mr. furley]

Can someone give me a quick summation of this entire story?

Plane disappears and no one knows where it went... is that about the gist of it or am I missing something?

That about sums up all the reliable info we have.

To follow-up... It is either in the ocean, landed somewhere, or sucked into a black-hole.

if my last ex-gf had done this she would have posted about it on facebook by now

Sherry from LaPointe?

short tall chick brunette with brown highlights?