MSU in the Crosshairs - Lawsuit Alleges MSU Encouraged Woman not to Report Rape by Basketball Players; Ohio State University Doctor Abused 177 Athlete (1 Viewer)

[rascal]

I'm not saying don't punish gymnastics. Sure, that's fine.  I just don't think there's any good argument for punishing some other sport because of misconduct in gymnastics.  

On the academic side of the house, all academic programs ultimately report to the provost.  So let's say the Department of Physics has a culture of academic misconduct, with everybody plagiarizing and fabricating data and everything.  It turns out that the chair knows, the dean knows, and the provost knows.  When this news breaks, should we dissolve the Department of Political Science because they report to the same provost?  This seems to be the exact same argument, but everybody would write it off as insane.  

I disagree with your anology as sports are not equivalent to academics.  Universities exist, at least in theory, as institutions of higher learning.  The university can continue it's purpose with no sports department.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

MSU files motion to dismiss Nasser lawsuit

 

[General Malaise]

MSU files motion to dismiss Nasser lawsuit

MSU is absolutely fuc#ed.  They will try all legal channels to limit the damages, but at what cost to their institution?  Would you send your daughter to Michigan State after reading any of this?  The PR hit alone is going to warrant introspection.  

Penn State was forced to pay out a hell of a lot more than $10MM, which was more than offset by their fan base and alumni raising the capital to pay their debts (still sickens me to this day....rally around boy rape and cover up? Barf).  Wonder if Sparty comes together to raise money to pay the damages of little girl rape?  Time will tell.

 

[jabarony]

MSU is absolutely fuc#ed.  They will try all legal channels to limit the damages, but at what cost to their institution?  Would you send your daughter to Michigan State after reading any of this?  The PR hit alone is going to warrant introspection.  

Penn State was forced to pay out a hell of a lot more than $10MM, which was more than offset by their fan base and alumni raising the capital to pay their debts (still sickens me to this day....rally around boy rape and cover up? Barf).  Wonder if Sparty comes together to raise money to pay the damages of little girl rape?  Time will tell.

So, if PSU fans didn't fund raise, where is that 10MM + coming from?  The people of PA in general (correct me if I'm wrong).

As barf inducing as it is that PSU alum ponied up for their scumbag coaches' legacy, or whatever,  it's better than the funds coming from the public.  Let the morons open their wallets.

 

[Johnny Rock]

I’ve followed along with the horrors Nasser inflicted on USA Gymnastics girls and knew he had a connection to MSU but this is absolutely heart-breaking as it keeps growing. So many failures by trusted adults. I hope their power in speaking out propels them to do even greater things in life. Good men and women need to stand up to this stuff. I know I do. What else can you do?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I disagree with your anology as sports are not equivalent to academics.  Universities exist, at least in theory, as institutions of higher learning.  The university can continue it's purpose with no sports department.

That doesn't matter.  The underlying principle is the same: we punish people who break the rules, not third parties who did nothing wrong.  

 

[Sabertooth]

Time to drop the hammer on everyone involved.

Nassar surrounded by adults who enabled his predatory behavior

I agree.  As adults we have a moral obligation to protect children from predators.  Run these bastards through the courts.  

 

[Hawkeye21]

I know many will think I'm way too harsh but I think any institution that allows acts like this to happen should be punished to the most harsh extent.  I think any part of that college that was used to support this should be shut down.  Gymnastics, baseball, swimming, basketball or football, I don't care.  I felt PSU should have lost their football program and it pisses me off that they continue on like nothing ever happened.  It's disgusting. 

 

[playin4beer]

MSU is absolutely fuc#ed.  They will try all legal channels to limit the damages, but at what cost to their institution?  Would you send your daughter to Michigan State after reading any of this?  The PR hit alone is going to warrant introspection.  

Penn State was forced to pay out a hell of a lot more than $10MM, which was more than offset by their fan base and alumni raising the capital to pay their debts (still sickens me to this day....rally around boy rape and cover up? Barf).  Wonder if Sparty comes together to raise money to pay the damages of little girl rape?  Time will tell.

Yes.. I would..

This could happen to her at any College, anywhere.  Did certain people at MSU handle this the right way? Absolutely not and those people need to burn... But to say the University itself is horrible because of this? I don't get it?

 

[Hawkeye21]

Yes.. I would..

This could happen to her at any College, anywhere.  Did certain people at MSU handle this the right way? Absolutely not and those people need to burn... But to say the University itself is horrible because of this? I don't get it?

Who at the university new about it?  Who let it happen?

 

[playin4beer]

Who at the university new about it?  Who let it happen?

I don't know.. and I'm not opposed to burning the whole athletic department down even though it's punishing more innocent people than guilty.. Nothing is too drastic.. I have 4 daughters and can't imagine what I'd do if this happened to one of them.  But on the same note, I'd feel comfortable sending any of them to MSU, even after this story.

 

[Hawkeye21]

I don't know.. and I'm not opposed to burning the whole athletic department down even though it's punishing more innocent people than guilty.. Nothing is too drastic.. I have 4 daughters and can't imagine what I'd do if this happened to one of them.  But on the same note, I'd feel comfortable sending any of them to MSU, even after this story.

I prefer drastic when it comes to cases like this.  These are severe crimes and deserve maximum punishment in my opinion.  If certain departments were responsible for it then I want them gone.  If the entire university was behind (very unlikely) I'd want the whole damn place shut down.  I want the name taken away and everyone cleared out.  Let it start over as a new university and burn the old name down.

As for punishing the innocent.  Those people can go to other universities.  I would waive whatever restrictions there are for them to transfer.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

That doesn't matter.  The underlying principle is the same: we punish people who break the rules, not third parties who did nothing wrong.  

Understand everything you're saying and I've admitted I'm coming at this way too emotional. 

I still say they need to lose the entire athletic department. 

 

[Doug B]

Weird story in how low on the radar it flew nationally. This has been on the news in Michigan regularly for awhile now. MSU's administration needs to be wiped clean. 

If it weren't for this thread, I'd have never heard of this at all.

 

[Sammy3469]

If it weren't for this thread, I'd have never heard of this at all.

ESPN has learned from UNC and PSU that real scandal that harms kids doesn't really sell.

 

[Sinn Fein]

That doesn't matter.  The underlying principle is the same: we punish people who break the rules, not third parties who did nothing wrong.  

Thats just not true - anywhere.  We punish innocent people all the time.  NCAA bowl bans, tournament bans, etc.  all impact "innocent people".

In the real world - we place sanctions on countries like Iran and North Korea to punish their leaders - but the impacts are greatest on the population - who are innocent.

If - and I don't think its the case here, so we are really just talking hypotheticals - a University is complicit in a corrupt athletic department - then you punish the university by curtailing the Athletic Department - and taking away whatever prestige or advantage that the Athletic Department provides - and that impacts the University, and creates the incentive to those who over see the University to do so responsibly.

When we fine a bank for money laundering - we are punishing all shareholders - even though they did nothing wrong.  When we impose sanctions on countries like North Korea and Iran, we are negatively impacting the citizens, even though they did nothing wrong.  

 

[Tom Servo]

So, if PSU fans didn't fund raise, where is that 10MM + coming from?  The people of PA in general (correct me if I'm wrong).

As barf inducing as it is that PSU alum ponied up for their scumbag coaches' legacy, or whatever,  it's better than the funds coming from the public.  Let the morons open their wallets.

PSU has paid out $109 million to Jerry Sandusky's victims.

Also:

The latest payments mean the school's overall Sandusky-related costs now exceed a quarter-billion dollars.

Insurance paid for some of it.

Additionally the school’s insurance carriers have paid around $28.8 million in scandal-related costs, the news station added.

Given all of that plus the nature of the allegations against MSU, a $250 million should be the starting point for their financial planning for this fiasco.

 

[Hawkeye21]

That doesn't matter.  The underlying principle is the same: we punish people who break the rules, not third parties who did nothing wrong.  

What if those third parties are what actually made it all possible?  For PSU the athletic department is what made it possible for Sandusky to do what he did.  If I were to get caught poaching the DNR would not only fine me and put me in jail but they would also seize everything I have with me including my vehicle.  Now, what did my vehicle do wrong?  It was an innocent third party and I was responsible for driving it.

Why is it acceptable for the DNR to place that kind of punishment down on people for killing some animals but when it comes to ruining human lives we need to take it easy.

 

[Tom Servo]

So, if PSU fans didn't fund raise, where is that 10MM + coming from?  The people of PA in general (correct me if I'm wrong).

As barf inducing as it is that PSU alum ponied up for their scumbag coaches' legacy, or whatever,  it's better than the funds coming from the public.  Let the morons open their wallets.

Where the cash came from to pay Sandusky’s victims.

 

[whoknew]

Judge said this morning that there are now up to 120 victim impact statements to be read and the sentencing could last until Tuesday.

120. Jesus.

 

[General Malaise]

So, if PSU fans didn't fund raise, where is that 10MM + coming from?  The people of PA in general (correct me if I'm wrong).

As barf inducing as it is that PSU alum ponied up for their scumbag coaches' legacy, or whatever,  it's better than the funds coming from the public.  Let the morons open their wallets.

PSU's endowment is $3.6 Billion - why would the tax payers be on the hook?

 

[General Malaise]

Yes.. I would..

This could happen to her at any College, anywhere.  Did certain people at MSU handle this the right way? Absolutely not and those people need to burn... But to say the University itself is horrible because of this? I don't get it?

It could happen to any college anywhere, but it didn't.  It happened at Michigan State.  I understand bad things can and do happen at most if not all colleges, but it's the actions - or more specifically, lack thereof - of the people working for those institutions that reflect poorly on the institution as a whole.  What do you think of when you hear Penn State or Baylor?  I know what I think.  Wretched sexual atrocities that were covered up, ignored or dismissed out of hand because those who knew didn't want to hurt their major money maker, the football team.  You may not regard that as a failure by the institution, but I do.  And the more I read about Nassar and his time at MSU not just sexually abusing gymnasts, but volleyball players and track and field athletes, the more I believe MSU is culpable.  And this abuse lasted 20 years with more than 14 - FOURTEEN - MSU reps being told by victims of the abuse.  

So no, I wouldn't be sending my daughter or my son to MSU.  I can't support that college with my money.  I just can't.  You don't get why I can't, I don't get why you could, but the world is full of people who disagree and that's ok.  I'd urge you to read the below article re: the reporting of abuse with nothing done.  It's disheartening to say the least.

14 Michigan State Reps Reportedly Heard About Abuser Larry Nassar And Did Nothing

Eight young women say they told MSU about the doctor over the course of two decades.

At least 14 Michigan State University staffers and representatives were warned about Larry Nassar’s sexual abuse over the course of two decades and allegedly did nothing to stop it, according to an explosive new report from the Detroit News.

Accusations from eight young women about the former USA Gymnastics and MSU team doctor’s behavior reportedly reached trainers, coaches, an MSU police detective and MSU President Lou Anna Simon, dating back to 1997. Simon learned about the problem in 2014 when a Title IX complaint and a police report were filed against an unidentified doctor. 

“I was informed that a sports medicine doctor was under investigation,” Simon told the News on Wednesday after she appeared in court for Nassar’s sentencing hearing. “I told people to play it straight up, and I did not receive a copy of the report. That’s the truth.” 

MSU has repeatedly denied covering up Nassar’s behavior in any way. 

“Any suggestion that the university covered up Nassar’s horrific conduct is simply false,” MSU spokesperson Jason Cody told HuffPost earlier this month. “Nassar preyed on his victims, changing their lives in terrible ways. As President Simon has said, MSU is truly sorry for the abuse all victims suffered, the pain it caused, and the pain it still causes.”

According to the Detroit News, the people who were told of Nassar’s abuse include former MSU head gymnastics coach Kathie Klages, current volleyball team trainer Lianna Hadden, current gymnastics team trainer Destiny Teachnor-Hauk, former MSU clinical psychologist Dr. Gary Stollak and officers at the Meridian Township Police Department. 

The eight women who reported Nassar’s abuse to the university include gymnast Larissa Boyce, runner Christie Achenbach, softball player Tiffany Thomas Lopez, Nassar family friend Kyle Stephens, soccer and tennis player Brianne Randall-Gay and gymnast Amanda Thomashow (whose sister Jessica has also accused the doctor).

Larissa Boyce, who is believed to be one of the first victims to report Nassar’s behavior, said she talked to Kathie Klages in 1997. The gymnastics coach allegedly told Boyce that she must have misunderstood the medical procedure. Now 37, Boyce said Nassar abused her from 1997 to 2001, beginning when she was 16. 

“They are denying any responsibility, saying they didn’t know a predator was among them,” Boyce told HuffPost earlier this month. “That is like a slap in the face to the ... girls who over the past 20 years told multiple MSU employees and [they] did nothing about it. How is that not showing their complete negligence?” 

Christie Achenbach said she reported Nassar’s behavior to assistant running coach Kelli Bert in 1999, but nothing ever came of it. Bert told the Detroit News that she didn’t recall the interaction. 

“If he had done something sexual, I believe I would have reported that immediately,” Bert said. 

Tiffany Thomas Lopez said she told Lianna Hadden, then an MSU softball trainer, in 2000 that Nassar had sexually abused her during a medical exam. Hadden reportedly told another trainer, Destiny Teachnor-Hauk, who assured Thomas Lopez that the exam was “actual medical treatment.”

During this week’s sentencing hearing, Jennifer Rood Bedford, a former MSU volleyball player, said she also reported Nassar’s behavior to Hadden, who allegedly discouraged her from filing a complaint. 

“Everyone trusted him so I told myself I needed to trust him, too,” Rood Bedford said in her victim impact statement. Now she said, “I constantly ask myself: Did I have the power to stop him?”

Since Nassar’s abuse went public in 2016, many victims have alleged that MSU and USA Gymnastics employees failed to comply with mandatory reporting regulations when they were told about his behavior.

Olympic gymnast and Nassar abuse survivor Aly Raisman called out USA Gymnastics earlier this month in a series of tweets. “You are 100% responsible. It was mandatory to get ‘treatment’ by Nassar,” she wrote, adding, “The system has to change so that athletes are safe. Enablers need to be held accountable.” 

Six of Nassar’s accusers recently told HuffPost that they don’t believe MSU and USA Gymnastics have faced sufficient punishment for their failures. 

“I’m sick of MSU trying to look good instead of be good,” said Jessica Smith, who alleges that Nassar abused her for a few months when she was 17. 

MSU gymnastics coach Klages and MSU doctor Brooke Lemmen have both resigned in the face of mounting accusations. The dean of MSU’s College of Osteopathic Medicine, William D. Strampel, took a medical leave from his position in December. The president of USA Gymnastics, Steve Penny,  resigned in March 2017 after public scrutiny of the matter.

“I think that everyone that either was reported to by victims, or that had knowledge that this was going on and didn’t do anything, should have been terminated immediately, and that’s not the case,” 18-year-old survivor Morgan McCaul told HuffPost. “I feel like this sends a big message to victims that there are no consequences for what these people did.”

 

[playin4beer]

I guess I just can't fault an entire University full of people, students and professors that didn't have a clue what was going on.

My oldest daughter actually applied for and was accepted to MSU.  She decided to attend Grand Rapids Community College and then transfer to Grand Valley.

I still wouldn't be upset if she called me today and said she changed her mind and was going to attend MSU.

 

[General Malaise]

I guess I just can't fault an entire University full of people, students and professors that didn't have a clue what was going on.

My oldest daughter actually applied for and was accepted to MSU.  She decided to attend Grand Rapids Community College and then transfer to Grand Valley.

I still wouldn't be upset if she called me today and said she changed her mind and was going to attend MSU.

I hear you, but I disagree with your stance.  I know not everybody who practices Catholicism is at fault for the sexual abuse of children, but I hold the entire church in disdain and don't understand how a parishioner can give time and money to a religion that protected the monsters who preyed upon children.  My wife's family is Catholic.  My MIL is a devout Catholic.  We have great respect for each other.  I don't discuss my problems with the Catholic church with her and she has never even once asked to Christen my children as she respects my beliefs, even though her other grandchildren are Christened and it's important to her.  

I don't want my money supporting an institution that turned a blind eye to rape and abuse.  And yes, I know not everybody at MSU is at fault; I don't care.  14 people knew about the abuse and 14 people did nothing to stop it.  I won't support Baylor or PSU if my children wanted to go there.  I mean, they could go if they wanted, but I would not assist with one penny of my money to aid them.

 

[Spartans Rule]

I still say they need to lose the entire athletic department. 

If you extend this same logic to US Gymnastics, which also overlooked Nassar's abuse... then it's time to shut down the USOC and end American participation in the Olympics.

Seems a little extreme to me.

 

[otb_lifer]

If you extend this same logic to US Gymnastics, which also overlooked Nassar's abuse... then it's time to shut down the USOC and end American participation in the Olympics.

Seems a little extreme to me.

i suggested earlier that if this were any country but the US of A, i believe the IOC would've dropped one epic ####### ban hammer on them - an "Olympic death sentence" so to speak ... but no U.S.A. means no money - and, as far as filth and corruption go, the NCAA got nuttin' on the IOC. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

What if those third parties are what actually made it all possible?  For PSU the athletic department is what made it possible for Sandusky to do what he did.  If I were to get caught poaching the DNR would not only fine me and put me in jail but they would also seize everything I have with me including my vehicle.  Now, what did my vehicle do wrong?  It was an innocent third party and I was responsible for driving it.

Why is it acceptable for the DNR to place that kind of punishment down on people for killing some animals but when it comes to ruining human lives we need to take it easy.

People who facilitated abuse are guilty of wrong-doing.  By definition, they're not innocent third parties.

I don't understand your point about poaching.  If you get caught poaching, you get punished, which means (I guess) losing your vehicle.  They don't take your boss's vehicle or your neighbor's vehicle.

 

[Thomas The Skank Engine]

it's time to shut down the USOC and end American participation in the Olympics.

agree

 

[whoknew]

Jesus Christ (from twitter) - 

The MSU board gave Lou Anna Simon a vote of support today.

 

[Dedfin]

SHUT IT DOWN

 

[flranger]

I don't understand why people keep saying punish the institution.  The only thing that can be punished is people.

Institutions do not have feelings.  Corporations do not have feelings.  Neither have hearts or anything that resembles emotion.  They feel no joy or sorrow, and they feel no pleasure or punishment.  Whether it be a large college, or a huge business, all they really are is pieces of paper stating a legal entity.  If MSU was totally destroyed tomorrow, shut down, to never again exist, the pieces of paper that document what is the entity of MSU wouldn't have a care in the world.     It's only the people who are associated that can truly be impacted.

What you can punish is people.  And you do that through either incarceration, taking away livelihoods, restricting future earnings, and what of course normally happens is taking away their money.   So what should happen is to punish the people who have responsibility.  Restrict their ability to profit in the future, or perhaps take some of their profits from the past.  If it rises to that level, pursue criminal actions.  That is the only place that punishment should be placed.

 

[Ilov80s]

Now up to 120 women that want to come to the court and confront the monster. 

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Jesus Christ (from twitter) - 

The MSU board gave Lou Anna Simon a vote of support today.

They're lucky I'm not a state legislator in Michigan. 

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

oooooooooooooooofffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2018/01/19/msu-board-trustees-still-supporting-simon/1049205001/

 

[culdeus]

Now up to 120 women that want to come to the court and confront the monster. 

120?!? 

Explain to me this, is this doctor in like a university hospital thing? Did he teach, or did he just work at the hospital? I never could figure out the extent of his role there.  

 

[otb_lifer]

oooooooooooooooofffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2018/01/19/msu-board-trustees-still-supporting-simon/1049205001/

anyone still think the University shouldn't be punished?

 

[Ilov80s]

120?!? 

Explain to me this, is this doctor in like a university hospital thing? Did he teach, or did he just work at the hospital? I never could figure out the extent of his role there.  

Those are just the ones that want to speak in court- there's more than that that have came forward as part of the suit. He was the Olympic team doctor employed by USA Gymnastics and a faculty member at MSU. I'm not sure exactly his role on the faculty was.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Nassar was also present in some capacity at the training facility that Bela Karyola (sp? sorry - on my phone) and his wife run in Texas. That's been taken off of the USAG grid now, too, and they are scrambling for a training center.

 

[General Malaise]

120?!? 

Explain to me this, is this doctor in like a university hospital thing? Did he teach, or did he just work at the hospital? I never could figure out the extent of his role there.  

Larry was an Athletic trainer throughout medical school. During the late 1980s in the US, he was very much involved with the initial training camp movement in Region 5. Under his guidance and educational influence, Region 5 prospered in the area of preventative and rehabilitative procedures as related to assisting our athletes reach their ultimate goals. [4]

Since 1986, he was an active member of the USA Gymnastics National Team medical staff and then later the National Team Physician. He was also appointed to the Board of Directors as the National Medical Coordinator in 1996. [5]

He was a part of 4 Olympic Games in which his role in the medical staff was a vital force. The games were: Atlanta, Sydney, Beijing, and London. During this time, he became an essential figure in revolutionizing how professional athletes train and require medical assistance by combining the two at the upper levels of Gymnastics. [6] 

He later became the Team physician at Michigan State University for the Women's Gymnastics and Women's Crew Teams. While there, he worked as the associate professor in the Department of Radiology, Division of Sports Medicine. He also taught sports medicine and physical exam skills to the first and second year medical students in the College of Osteopathic Medicine at M.S.U.

 

[General Malaise]

Jesus, this is a hard read.  These poor girls....

 

THE FIRST WOMAN to testify in Michigan state court about Nassar's abuse was Kyle Stephens. She says she was about 6 years old when he first exposed himself to her. It took her roughly six more years to realize that she was being sexually abused and to gather the courage to tell her parents. And it would take another six years before her father believed her.

Stephens, who initially spoke to Outside the Lines on the condition of anonymity but identified herself publicly Tuesday during Nassar's sentencing hearing, says she frequently spent her childhood weekend afternoons and evenings at Nassar's split-level home in Holt, Michigan. Her parents were close friends with Nassar and his wife, Stefanie, and they often cooked together on Sundays.

She and her older brother sometimes played hide-and-seek with Nassar in the basement while the other adults remained upstairs. She says she'd often hide in his boiler room, tucked between a furnace and a sink. On several occasions, she says, Nassar entered the room and, pretending not to see her, masturbated in front of her. He stashed a bottle of lotion in the room.

"I still know that [lotion's] smell," she said in her first court appearance. "The smell still makes me sick."

Over the course of the next several years, Nassar grew bolder. She says that he would sit next to her on a basement couch while she and her brother watched television and rubbed her feet against his crotch. He progressed to putting a blanket over himself and her feet, and she says he pulled out his genitals and rubbed them against her feet. Eventually, and on multiple occasions, he put his finger inside her. The woman says she didn't understand the nature of what was happening to her until a friend described an abusive encounter of her own while they rode the bus together in sixth grade. She realized similar things had happened to her, and that she needed to tell her parents.

"Mom," Stephens says she told her mother one night in her bedroom during the summer after she completed sixth grade, "when Larry rubs my feet, he uses his penis."

Her mother went gaunt. She had her daughter repeat the story to her father. The parents decided they would consult a psychologist. They took her to Dr. Gary Stollak, who was then a Michigan State professor and a clinical psychologist. Stollak organized a meeting with the woman's parents and Nassar to discuss her accusations. Stephens, then a young teenager, was not at the meeting, and Nassar denied any wrongdoing. She says she visited Stollak's office roughly eight times, sometimes by herself and sometimes with her parents. She doesn't recall the doctor ever asking her questions about the abuse when her parents were absent or trying to determine whether her side of the story was true. She described their session as more akin to "uncomfortable" sex education lessons.

Stollak retired from Michigan State in 2010. He testified in court that he suffered a stroke after retirement that has significantly impaired his memory. He also said he disposed of the notes he kept on his clients when he retired. There is no record that Stollak, who was bound by state law to report suspected abuse, talked with anyone else at the university or to police about the alleged abuse. He told the court that he did not recall seeing the woman as a patient.

After the meeting with Nassar and Stollak, Stephens says her parents brought her back to Nassar's home and told her to apologize to him. She refused and stuck to her story for the following year. Her relationship with her father became "volatile" during that time. He routinely pressured her to admit that what she had told them about Nassar was a lie. About a year later, when she was 13 years old, her father made it clear his patience had run out.

"If you don't tell the truth," he told her, "I'm going to make your life a living hell."

Stephens says the look on his face that day made her believe him, "and if I wasn't already in a living hell, I was unprepared to endure one." She says she decided it would be easier to concede to the story he wanted to believe.

Several parents who spoke to Outside the Lines say Nassar was as effective in grooming them as he was in grooming his victims. Tony Guerrero says he beamed with pride the first time he brought his daughter to Nassar's office on Michigan State's campus in 2014. The walls of the two rooms where Nassar saw patients were plastered with autographed photos and memorabilia from Olympic gymnasts and figure skaters. He says it all made him feel like he was providing his daughter -- at the time a 12-year-old aspiring to be an elite gymnast -- an opportunity to receive world-class care.

Nassar gave her a floor pass from the Olympic Games signed by gold medalist Nastia Liukin and allowed Guerrero to sit in the room throughout the treatment. He was in the room each time his daughter saw Nassar. He says Nassar used his body to block Guerrero's view and talked casually as Nassar touched his daughter.

"He was a professional at what he did. Not a doctor -- a professional predator," Guerrero says. "He positioned himself in places where I couldn't see where his hands were, and he would be doing what he wanted. The whole time she's thinking it's normal because I'm sitting there with her, and he's doing stuff he shouldn't be doing."

Others trusted Nassar enough to drop off their daughters at his house for treatment, often late at night. He was an in-demand doctor who was willing to find time after hours to help their family. Lindsey Lemke, the Michigan State gymnast who grew up in the same town as Nassar, says he gained her family's trust because he would do "anything for anybody at any time of day that you asked."

Christy Lemke-Akeo, Lindsey's mother, socialized with Nassar and considered him a family friend. They exchanged Christmas gifts. She didn't hesitate to run errands while Lindsey was at Nassar's office or in his home at night.

"How could we have missed this?" Lemke-Akeo says. "I was on my kid's back 24/7 about Facebook and Twitter. I would follow them on their phones to see where they went every night. I thought I had everything under control. ... It was a terrible feeling as a parent because you do feel like you've dropped the ball."

Lemke-Akeo says she asked her daughter several times in the fall of 2016 if Nassar had ever abused her, and Lindsey shook her off. Both women had trouble coming to grips with their shattered reality. It wasn't until he was charged with child pornography possession -- authorities found more than 37,000 images -- that they fully believed Nassar had ill intentions when treating her.

Stephens, whose father did not believe that she had been abused, says the fact she refused to apologize to Nassar was a constant subject in what had become a contentious relationship with her father. She says he branded her as a liar. Her father suffered from chronic debilitating physical pain throughout much of her life, and she says the cocktail of drugs he was prescribed to manage that affected his mental well-being.

A month before she left for college in 2010, she decided it was time to try again to tell her father that Nassar had assaulted her.

"I wasn't lying," she remembers telling him, before his hand shot out and pinned her neck to the chair where she was sitting. "Then he said -- well, he growled, 'What did you say?' I gasped, 'I wasn't lying.' He said it again. I was basically choking, and I said, 'I. Was. Not. Lying.' He just crumpled. You could see his face just completely shatter, like, 'Holy ####, this 18-year-old doesn't have any reason to stick to that story at this point.' He just sat on the couch and just stared into space for a while."

On March 30, 2016, he died by suicide.

Stephens says she reached a level of peace with her father in the years that followed that altercation. He told her he was wracked with guilt for believing Nassar, especially because he worked for many years as a caretaker in a home for abused children. She says she thinks the chronic pain with no hope of relief was the main reason her father took his life, but the guilt he felt in those final years "really broke his spirit and his belief that he was worth keeping alive."

Less than six months after his death, a 31-year-old lawyer and mother of three named Rachael Denhollander filed a police report alleging that Nassar had abused her when she was a teenage gymnast. She became the first person to publicly accuse Nassar of assault, in an article published in The Indianapolis Star in September 2016.

Denhollander's story convinced dozens of other women and girls to come forward. This week, many of them will detail their tragic encounters with Nassar in a Michigan courtroom. The stories that have existed in isolation for a quarter-century will be for the first time told in a common setting as Nassar and a judge who will decide his prison sentence listen.

The trusted reputation he built as a shield and the gaps of communication in which he preyed upon young girls and women for decades will be gone. For Denhollander and the many other women like her, only a portion of the justice they seek will be done. The questions and fallout from Nassar's action will linger for them and for all who surrounded Nassar for so many years.

"The culture of enabling is absolutely vital to why pedophiles flourish," Denhollander said when Nassar pleaded guilty to abusing her and nine others in November. "You don't get someone like Larry Nassar, you don't get a pedophile who is able to abuse without there being a culture surrounding him in that place. Until we deal with the enablers, this is going to continue to happen."

More heads will roll.  Of that I am certain. 

 

[SWC]

same thing i said in the penn state case you burn everyone involved down they all go and the state should be prosecuting everyone who covered this up or failed to act when they could have just fn ridiculous burn this crap to the ground take that to the this judge rules so hard what a woman stand your ground bromiga 

 

[AAABatteries]

Jesus, this is a hard read.  These poor girls....

 

More heads will roll.  Of that I am certain. 

How can any father have their daughter tell them repeatedly that another adult is molesting her and they not only don't believe them but make them apologize.  It's a horrible story but that Father deserves the hell he went through.

 

[AAABatteries]

Is there any chance this could end the University completely? 

 

[Ilov80s]

Is there any chance this could end the University completely? 

No. Better chance it ends USA Gymnastics. 

 

[tri-man 47]

Jesus Christ (from twitter) - 

The MSU board gave Lou Anna Simon a vote of support today.

It's not about her being the "right one" to lead the university, as they state it.  Everything is secondary to the university sending a signal that they understand how serious this is and taking an action that reinforces that point.  The best way to show their accountability and demonstrate their concern for the victims would be to let the President go ..."tone at the top," as they say.  

 

[Ilov80s]

How can any father have their daughter tell them repeatedly that another adult is molesting her and they not only don't believe them but make them apologize.  It's a horrible story but that Father deserves the hell he went through.

This is a really big thing. It happened a lot. My MIL has talked about a neighbor that touched her- she shut it down by hitting him and biting him. She told her parents and they both didn't believe her, said the neighbor was a part of their church and made her apologize for being a bratty kid who cried wolf. 

 

[Kal El]

120?!? 

Explain to me this, is this doctor in like a university hospital thing? Did he teach, or did he just work at the hospital? I never could figure out the extent of his role there.  

At this point, does it really matter what he was supposed to be doing? He abused kids. He deserves much worse than what he's getting.

 

[Ilov80s]

At this point, does it really matter what he was supposed to be doing? He abused kids. He deserves much worse than what he's getting.

I don't think he's trying to find any justification, @culdeus is just wondering how this nightmare grew so large 

 

[Kal El]

I don't think he's trying to find any justification, @culdeus is just wondering how this nightmare grew so large 

I see. From what it looks like, it's a lot of people refusing to believe little kids. The system failed them. I'm getting very tired of these stories where predators are allowed to act with impunity, and only when the number tops 3 digits is something actually done.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Execute sparty