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MSU in the Crosshairs - Lawsuit Alleges MSU Encouraged Woman not to Report Rape by Basketball Players; Ohio State University Doctor Abused 177 Athlete (1 Viewer)

Yankee23Fan said:
Sadly.

MSU should have been decertified and closed already. And the NCAA allowing it to compete is a continuation of its crimes. 
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I'd like to see the place shut down, stripped of everything it has accomplished, all staff let go and completely start over again under a new name.  I'd like to see a new board of directors and the hiring process for professors can start.  I'd allow all past professors to apply for jobs again and let the new board decide on who comes back and who doesn't.

I know this is extreme and most likely would never happen but I'd love to see it.  I'd love to see everything MSU has done over the years wiped out and eventually forgotten.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
I'd like to see the place shut down, stripped of everything it has accomplished, all staff let go and completely start over again under a new name.  I'd like to see a new board of directors and the hiring process for professors can start.  I'd allow all past professors to apply for jobs again and let the new board decide on who comes back and who doesn't.

I know this is extreme and most likely would never happen but I'd love to see it.  I'd love to see everything MSU has done over the years wiped out and eventually forgotten.
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off the meds I see....

 
Hawkeye21 said:
I told you, it's extreme and I know it wouldn't happen.  I'd just like to see something serious happen to show this will not be tolerated.  I take it you don't care for the idea.
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I honestly hope this all didn’t go down as she has described because its beyond ridiculous if this is accurate. Not an Engler fan, but he’d been doing a decent job so far. It’s starting to feel like anyone in a leadership role at MSU is taking stupid pills.

There definitely needs to be huge changes at the top. The entire Board has needed to be gone a lot time ago.  I've tried voting them out many times, but they continue to be seated.

Until the alumni get behind this in large fashion, it's sadly going to be business as usual.

 
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Koya said:
For a counselor to betray someone like that, and for a system to purposefully use that channel to protect their athletic program over the well being and mental health of the very students the University has already failed, is abhorrent beyond words.
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Yeah, that person should be forced out of the profession.  That was evil.

 
Half a billion dollars. But agree it doesn't seem enough for so many victims. 

Everybody out to protect their phoney-baloney jobs and a corrupt institution. Engler brought in for the fix not accountability.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
I'd like to see the place shut down, stripped of everything it has accomplished, all staff let go and completely start over again under a new name.  I'd like to see a new board of directors and the hiring process for professors can start.  I'd allow all past professors to apply for jobs again and let the new board decide on who comes back and who doesn't.

I know this is extreme and most likely would never happen but I'd love to see it.  I'd love to see everything MSU has done over the years wiped out and eventually forgotten.
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This is idiotic.  There's likely not a single faculty member who has the slightest thing to do with any of this.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
This is idiotic.  There's likely not a single faculty member who has the slightest thing to do with any of this.
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I don’t really care to be honest with you. Schools and businesses get shut down for different reasons all the time. People get laid off as well. Most of those reasons are not near as bad as what happened at MSU. 

 
Hawkeye21 said:
I don’t really care to be honest with you. Schools and businesses get shut down for different reasons all the time. People get laid off as well. Most of those reasons are not near as bad as what happened at MSU. 
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I need a list of 10 schools that have been shut down and the reasons for doing so. :link:  

 
Tom Servo said:
I need a list of 10 schools that have been shut down and the reasons for doing so. :link:  
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You've seriously never heard of a school getting shut down because of lack of students or funding?  Businesses close all the time and employees need to find new jobs.  Just 4 years ago I closed my appliance business because I didn't want to do it anymore.  People get laid off because their business isn't busy or because Trump starts a trade war.

I wasn't specifically saying that schools and businesses get shut down due to scandals like MSU.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
You've seriously never heard of a school getting shut down because of lack of students or funding?  Businesses close all the time and employees need to find new jobs.  Just 4 years ago I closed my appliance business because I didn't want to do it anymore.  People get laid off because their business isn't busy or because Trump starts a trade war.

I wasn't specifically saying that schools and businesses get shut down due to scandals like MSU.
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So you can’t provide an example of a school being shut down?

We’re done here. Climb down off your soapbox and move along; the homeless want peace and quiet around this park bench. 

 
Hawkeye21 said:
You've seriously never heard of a school getting shut down because of lack of students or funding?  Businesses close all the time and employees need to find new jobs.  Just 4 years ago I closed my appliance business because I didn't want to do it anymore.  People get laid off because their business isn't busy or because Trump starts a trade war.

I wasn't specifically saying that schools and businesses get shut down due to scandals like MSU.
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I'm sorry to be non-excellent, but you're being stupid about this.  Schools like Michigan State are essentially little cities.  What you are proposing is that the whole city should shut down and fire everybody because the chief of police was a corrupt scumbag.  That's stupid.  Stop being stupid.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I'm sorry to be non-excellent, but you're being stupid about this.  Schools like Michigan State are essentially little cities.  What you are proposing is that the whole city should shut down and fire everybody because the chief of police was a corrupt scumbag.  That's stupid.  Stop being stupid.
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It took a lot more than just one person being a scumbag for what happened to have happened. 

I don't support shutting the school down, but the NCAA should penalize them hard. 

 
Their athletic department should be heavily penalized, but to shut down the entire school is ridiculous.

 
Tom Servo said:
So you can’t provide an example of a school being shut down?

We’re done here. Climb down off your soapbox and move along; the homeless want peace and quiet around this park bench. 
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There are schools in small towns around me that have been shut down over the years due to not enough children.  Schools get shut down all across the country for different reasons.  Don't be so obtuse.

This should be all the info you need.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I'm sorry to be non-excellent, but you're being stupid about this.  Schools like Michigan State are essentially little cities.  What you are proposing is that the whole city should shut down and fire everybody because the chief of police was a corrupt scumbag.  That's stupid.  Stop being stupid.
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Not being stupid at all.  Sorry you don't like my opinion on it.  I said it was an extreme one and I don't really care if you don't like it.  I don't expect it ever to happen.  Get over yourselves.

 
RC94 said:
Their athletic department should be heavily penalized, but to shut down the entire school is ridiculous.
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I didn't suggest closing the entire school for good.  It was just an idea of starting the school over with a clean slate.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
There are schools in small towns around me that have been shut down over the years due to not enough children.  Schools get shut down all across the country for different reasons.  Don't be so obtuse.

This should be all the info you need.
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So, moving the goal posts, eh Tom Dempsey? You want MSU burned to the ground for this scandal, but when I challenged you to show me schools likewise closed due to scandal you point me to public schools closed due to insufficient students?  :lmao:   :lmao:   Oh, and bonus points for throwing up your old appliance business because "you didn't feel like it anymore". Perhaps the "scandal" there was you were too much like the Maytag Repairman.

You're awesome; never change, dude.

 
Tom Servo said:
So, moving the goal posts, eh Tom Dempsey? You want MSU burned to the ground for this scandal, but when I challenged you to show me schools likewise closed due to scandal you point me to public schools closed due to insufficient students?  :lmao:   :lmao:   Oh, and bonus points for throwing up your old appliance business because "you didn't feel like it anymore". Perhaps the "scandal" there was you were too much like the Maytag Repairman.

You're awesome; never change, dude.
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Go back and read what I said and what you said.  I never said schools closed for any scandals.  You also never asked for a list of schools shut down for scandals.  I have not moved any goal posts and I'm not sure why you're so upset over all this.  You seem to be taking this a little too personal.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
Go back and read what I said and what you said.  I never said schools closed for any scandals.  You also never asked for a list of schools shut down for scandals.  I have not moved any goal posts and I'm not sure why you're so upset over all this.  You seem to be taking this a little too personal.
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So, you're talking about closing MSU over this, yet you knew you couldn't substantiate a precedent for it, so you resorted to talking about insufficient enrollment closures.

When I said this,  I also told you to give me the reasons why. I knew you couldn't provide a list of scandal-ridden schools. You wanted to bolster your case that you thought MSU should be closed, but knew you couldn't support it, so you shifted it to schools closing due to lack of students. Not exactly the same thing...not even close. And it doesn't even make sense in the context of the discussion going on here.

This is not an education thread; we're talking about a scandal at a major American university. Neither I not @IvanKaramazov are worked up about this; we're trying to show you how whacked your argument is. 

 
Tom Servo said:
So, you're talking about closing MSU over this, yet you knew you couldn't substantiate a precedent for it, so you resorted to talking about insufficient enrollment closures.

When I said this,  I also told you to give me the reasons why. I knew you couldn't provide a list of scandal-ridden schools. You wanted to bolster your case that you thought MSU should be closed, but knew you couldn't support it, so you shifted it to schools closing due to lack of students. Not exactly the same thing...not even close. And it doesn't even make sense in the context of the discussion going on here.

This is not an education thread; we're talking about a scandal at a major American university. Neither I not @IvanKaramazov are worked up about this; we're trying to show you how whacked your argument is. 
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My point was that schools and businesses close for various different reasons and people are left without their jobs.  It's not always fair but it happens.  Closing MSU would fall in line with that.  My suggestion of closing the school was only to be temporary and a means to start over.  A university like MSU can be similar to a business and businesses do restructure.

Here's a school that got shut down due to a cheating scandal.

I get it, you don't like my idea.  Move along then.

 
Here are some more schools that closed due to scandals that I found with a quick search.  There are more.

https://educationvotes.nea.org/2018/06/01/charter-school-accused-of-defrauding-taxpayers-of-1-6-million-set-to-close-in-ct/#.WxGTc1xmesg.twitter

https://www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/news/education/article_82749648-5d15-11e8-a0f0-9b11d0258685.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/03/preschool-sex-scandal-california_n_2607512.html

https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2016/may/12/ticker-investigation-green-elementary-sex-scandal/#

Not scandal related but some college closures.  

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/11/13/spate-recent-college-closures-has-some-seeing-long-predicted-consolidation-taking

https://hechingerreport.org/question-no-one-can-answer-closed-colleges-students-go/

 
Tom Servo said:
Game recognizes game. 
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I'm not trolling at all.  All I did was voice my opinion on what I'd like to see be done.  I said what I wanted to be done was extreme and I didn't expect it to ever happen but I'd still like something happen.  My thought is that if a punishment this extreme were to happen it may help prevent it happening at other schools.

I didn't expect many to like my idea and that's fine.  You don't have to.  I'm just not a fan of seeing these schools go on as if nothing really happened.

 
Tom Servo said:
So, moving the goal posts, eh Tom Dempsey? You want MSU burned to the ground for this scandal, but when I challenged you to show me schools likewise closed due to scandal you point me to public schools closed due to insufficient students?  :lmao:   :lmao:   Oh, and bonus points for throwing up your old appliance business because "you didn't feel like it anymore". Perhaps the "scandal" there was you were too much like the Maytag Repairman.

You're awesome; never change, dude.
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Hey Gordon jump was a good man.  Just playing a role on diffrent strokes.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
My thought is that if a punishment this extreme were to happen it may help prevent it happening at other schools.
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Humans don't operate this way. Sounds counter-intuitive ... but draconian punishments don't change human behavior at all.

 
Doug B said:
Humans don't operate this way. Sounds counter-intuitive ... but draconian punishments don't change human behavior at all.
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That's true.  It wouldn't stop certain people from committing those acts but could it give universities a bigger reason to report these issues right away instead of covering them up.  I wouldn't suggest that severe of punishment for a college that has an instance like that, just the ones that go out of their way to cover it up and allow it to happen more.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
That's true.  It wouldn't stop certain people from committing those acts but could it give universities a bigger reason to report these issues right away instead of covering them up.  I wouldn't suggest that severe of punishment for a college that has an instance like that, just the ones that go out of their way to cover it up and allow it to happen more.
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Other way around -- it would make the cover-up more desperate and intense. And much harder to investigate.

Say I am MSU faculty, and I've heard third-hand rumors of what's going on. But it has nothing to do at all with my department, with the people I work with or report to, nothing at all. Why would I cooperate freely with an investigation when the known aim is to close the university closing and thus cause me to lose my livelihood?

People who can help with an investigation -- especially those who are truly innocent of crimes and were only in a position to report on rumor and gossip -- need to have an "out", a guarantee that they will not suffer or even be inconvenienced much for their cooperation. Such people may have great sympathy for the victims and deep disdain for the perpetrator(s), but that doesn't mean they're willing to risk all that much skin to get justice served.

 
Doug B said:
Other way around -- it would make the cover-up more desperate and intense. And much harder to investigate.

Say I am MSU faculty, and I've heard third-hand rumors of what's going on. But it has nothing to do at all with my department, with the people I work with or report to, nothing at all. Why would I cooperate freely with an investigation when the known aim is to close the university closing and thus cause me to lose my livelihood?

People who can help with an investigation -- especially those who are truly innocent of crimes and were only in a position to report on rumor and gossip -- need to have an "out", a guarantee that they will not suffer or even be inconvenienced much for their cooperation. Such people may have great sympathy for the victims and deep disdain for the perpetrator(s), but that doesn't mean they're willing to risk all that much skin to get justice served.
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That's possible.  I would think it would make then want to get it taken care of sooner.  The more it's covered up the harsher the punishment.  If it's reported sooner then there could be fewer penalties for the school itself.  Just a thought.  All I know is that something has to change to prevent these cover ups from happening.

 
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