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My Take On the CBA (1 Viewer)

David Dodds

Administrator
No link, no inside source to quote, just my opinion here....

The current CBA was very good for the owners. They made a lot of money by creating a salary cap at the time when the league was growing exponentially. A lot of revenue sources that are available now weren't readily available when they signed this deal (TV deals, new stadiums, etc).

The owners need not apologize for this situation though. The increased TV deals, new stadium revenues, merchandising are all up. But a lot of these owners and Tags had a lot to do with making the NFL the top sport by a wide margin. They deserve what they have earned.

But going into the negotiations for new CBA, the players believe they deserve more. They see all this extra revenue and want a piece of it. The owners love what they have now, but know they are going to likely have to give up some of this cash with any new agreement.

The fans and owners love the cap. It keeps a level playing field. NFL Players have agreed to play under a cap as long as they are treated fairly. But everyone knows that if the cap was lifted, players would likely get even more revenue eventually. Just look at Baseball and Hockey as examples. Certian owners will pay whatever it takes to create a winner. It only takes 3 to 4 of these owners and the dollars available for salaries would be greater. The NFLPA and players certainly know this. The owners also know this, but it's hard to quantify. The NFLPA estimates that 70% of revenues would be available for salaries in an open market. This is probably not far from the truth.

An interesting dynamic though is to get that 70% (and be uncapped), the NFL players would need to sacrifice for at least 1-2 years. For some players, that wait is too long (short careers in this violent game). This works as an advantage to the owners.

On one hand the super rich owner embraces a free market because he can afford to buy a winner. On the other hand he knows he is maximizing profit by keeping things equal for all teams. Imagine how much the Yankees would make if they could not spend more than the other teams?

The rich (but not super rich owner) can't afford to pay the higher tax (unless revenues are shared) or he will lose money. This is where the 56% and 60% differences reside in my opinion. At 56%, all owners likely can pay the salaries without additional sharing of new revenues. At 60% it is my understanding this is not the case.

Which is why we have a stalemate. Upshaw and the NFLPA were right in that this would be 100X easier to negotiate if the owners KNEW what they were going to do regarding sharing of revenues. But as soon as Upshaw said he wanted more than the 56% number, the small owners were disagreeing with the big owners which means nothing is getting negotiated.

Both the NFLPA and the owners need a unified starting position and that includes an understanding of the shared revenues involved. Tags was smart to ask for another 4 days for owner meetings. If the owners can figure out revenue sharing between themselves, I think this thing has an excellent chance of getting solved.

I still believe this thing will get done soon. The number that likely gets released will be near 60%, but will include some deductions (stadium costs, etc). But the 60% number will be released so the NFLPA can save face in front of their players. The super rich owners will give something to the less rich owners also allowing for the number to get closer to this magical 60% without the small owners feeling the pinch.

There is a ton of money to be had here in a growing segment. I don't think Upshaw is bluffing when he says that an uncapped year means the cap is dead going forward. The NFLPA knows that actually would be a very good result for the players (even if the league itself takes a bit of a hit with fans). Our own Maurile Tremblay studied this and stated that losing the salary cap would be very good for the players in the long-run.

The next few days are going to tell the story. If the super rich owners don't want a cap, then they simply refuse to share revenues. If these same owners value a cap (to maximize profit), they will share revenues making a deal more likely. But until the owners have a unified position on how the revenues get distributed among themselves, the less rich owners don't have enough information to support giving an increase to the players. And that is where we have been the last few weeks.

Again my gut says this deal gets done this time. Too many owners lose if the cap goes away. They can say they don't care about a cap, but know they will bid each other into situations where some of them will start losing money. It has happened in every other sport without a cap.

 
is it possible for the majority of owners to force revenue sharing on the super rich guys that are holding things up?

 
is it possible for the majority of owners to force revenue sharing on the super rich guys that are holding things up?
From what I gather, there's 9-10 owners in the "small market, we need more revenue sharing" camp (Green Bay for example) and also 9-10 in the "super rich marketing genius" camps (Dallas, Wash, NYG, etc.)Nine is enough for a stalemate.

Since the owners can't agree, no one can even begin to negotiate with the players as a unified front.

 
From what I gather, there's 9-10 owners in the "small market, we need more revenue sharing" camp (Green Bay for example) and also 9-10 in the "super rich marketing genius" camps (Dallas, Wash, NYG, etc.)
Long time FFT'er here...been lurking since before that site went down. I felt the need to register after hearing Green Bay propped up as small-market whiner #1, one too many times. Green Bay is actually in the top ten of revenues. Yes, they do want revenue sharing to be protected and the cap to remain in place, but they are not the ones at the front of that charge. It's being led by the owners in Buffalo and Jacksonville. Green Bay doesn't even have an owner. The Packers are more of a passive player in this, hoping the NFL doesn't screw this up. It might be nitpicking, but I hate seeing Green Bay potentially ragged on by fans of teams in big markets as holding this thing up.I've witnessed it with the Brewers and cringe at any whiff of it aimed in the direction of the Pack.

 
From what I gather, there's 9-10 owners in the "small market, we need more revenue sharing" camp (Green Bay for example) and also 9-10 in the "super rich marketing genius" camps (Dallas, Wash, NYG, etc.)
Long time FFT'er here...been lurking since before that site went down. I felt the need to register after hearing Green Bay propped up as small-market whiner #1, one too many times. Green Bay is actually in the top ten of revenues. Yes, they do want revenue sharing to be protected and the cap to remain in place, but they are not the ones at the front of that charge. It's being led by the owners in Buffalo and Jacksonville. Green Bay doesn't even have an owner. The Packers are more of a passive player in this, hoping the NFL doesn't screw this up. It might be nitpicking, but I hate seeing Green Bay potentially ragged on by fans of teams in big markets as holding this thing up.I've witnessed it with the Brewers and cringe at any whiff of it aimed in the direction of the Pack.
I also don't think its correct to label the small market teams as whiners. all they, and the majority of fans, want is a level playing field that gives all teams a relatively equal chance to be competitive.revenue sharing and the salary cap helped make the NFL what it is today. hopefully, the NFL owners who are fortunate enough to be in some of the bigger markets appreciate that fact.

 
From what I gather, there's 9-10 owners in the "small market, we need more revenue sharing" camp (Green Bay for example) and also 9-10 in the "super rich marketing genius" camps (Dallas, Wash, NYG, etc.)
Long time FFT'er here...been lurking since before that site went down. I felt the need to register after hearing Green Bay propped up as small-market whiner #1, one too many times. Green Bay is actually in the top ten of revenues. Yes, they do want revenue sharing to be protected and the cap to remain in place, but they are not the ones at the front of that charge. It's being led by the owners in Buffalo and Jacksonville. Green Bay doesn't even have an owner. The Packers are more of a passive player in this, hoping the NFL doesn't screw this up. It might be nitpicking, but I hate seeing Green Bay potentially ragged on by fans of teams in big markets as holding this thing up.I've witnessed it with the Brewers and cringe at any whiff of it aimed in the direction of the Pack.
Well, just consider me piling on then. I agree with Buffalo.The definition of "cash over cap" rich and poor teams, IIRC, often included Green Bay.

Question - and I don't know the answer - who represents the Packers' interests at an owners meeting?

 
Green Bay is always just lopped in there as an assumption. The reason I can say this with confidence is because they really don't maintain a national profile with the national media. There really is no face for them nationally with regard to the media on league matters. So whenever you read a report that sticks Green Bay with the 9-10 holdouts who want more revenue sharing its an assumption.

The Packers face and representive behind closed doors is team president Bob Harlan. But he's far from a demanding character in all this. Pretty much goes with whatever the NFL decides.

There are 9-10 owners fighting hard for a bigger slice of the pie, and 9-10 that don't really want to divide it more. From everything I've read locally and nationally, my bet is that GB is in that other 10-12 watching from the sidelines.

 
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From what I gather, there's 9-10 owners in the "small market, we need more revenue sharing" camp (Green Bay for example) and also 9-10 in the "super rich marketing genius" camps (Dallas, Wash, NYG, etc.)
Long time FFT'er here...been lurking since before that site went down. I felt the need to register after hearing Green Bay propped up as small-market whiner #1, one too many times. Green Bay is actually in the top ten of revenues. Yes, they do want revenue sharing to be protected and the cap to remain in place, but they are not the ones at the front of that charge. It's being led by the owners in Buffalo and Jacksonville. Green Bay doesn't even have an owner. The Packers are more of a passive player in this, hoping the NFL doesn't screw this up. It might be nitpicking, but I hate seeing Green Bay potentially ragged on by fans of teams in big markets as holding this thing up.I've witnessed it with the Brewers and cringe at any whiff of it aimed in the direction of the Pack.
Well, just consider me piling on then. I agree with Buffalo.The definition of "cash over cap" rich and poor teams, IIRC, often included Green Bay.

Question - and I don't know the answer - who represents the Packers' interests at an owners meeting?
the team President, I think... there is an "acting" owner of the team, he just doesn't actually own the team...
 
Nope no acting owner. Just a team president who is a face for the shareholders, the Green Bay Packer's fans.

That's a big part of the reason why Green Bay never stirs the pot on one side or the other.

From Packers.com...

Green Bay Packers, Inc., has been a publicly-owned, non-profit corporation since Aug. 18, 1923, when original articles of incorporation were filed with Wisconsin's secretary of state.

A total of 4,749,925 shares are owned by 111,921 stockholders - none of whom receives any dividend on the initial investment.

The corporation is governed by a board of directors and a seven-member executive committee.

To protect against someone taking control of the team, the articles of incorporation prohibit any person from owning more than 200,000 shares.
 
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When the league stresses the importance of revenue sharing it's more at the league's behest, wanting to preserve a good thing, not a Green Bay representative begging and pleading. The only time the Packers organation did any begging and pleading was on a local level, trying to garner support for a stadium sales tax to refurbish Lambeau. Luckliy the NFL recognizes a good thing and does the fighting for a place like Green Bay, because without an owner, they really don't speak up too much on their own behalf.

 
Green Bay is always just lopped in there as an assumption. The reason I can say this with confidence is because they really don't maintain a national profile with the national media. There really is no face for them nationally with regard to the media on league matters. So whenever you read a report that sticks Green Bay with the 9-10 holdouts who want more revenue sharing its an assumption.

The Packers face and representive behind closed doors is team president Bob Harlan. But he's far from a demanding character in all this. Pretty much goes with whatever the NFL decides.

There are 9-10 owners fighting hard for a bigger slice of the pie, and 9-10 that don't really want to divide it more. From everything I've read locally and nationally, my bet is that GB is in that other 10-12 watching from the sidelines.
Fair enough.I think that there's validity to both camps.

Nearly half of the NFL owners (14) are new since 1993 when the current CBA architecture was implimented.

When these owners purchased their franchises, they paid a premium associated with that franchise (e.g. Dan Snyder / Washington) that included this extra revenue. So now these relatively new owners are about to have their personal investments devalued. Some have also improved team revenues via stadium names and other advertising rights (Washington was the first with a sponsor backdrop at press conferences). With profit sharing, they will be less incentivized to go get these extra dollars nor will they have any say in how well other teams pursue these dollars.

As for the owners that want to get more sharing, I can't say I blame them. In the Wellington Mara spirit, the league was founded in the early 60's upon the "haves" agreeing to share $$ with the "have nots". "Cash over cap" money has grown year over year as teams market more locally and with corporate names on the stadium and in the luxury boxes. Some markets just don't have that many dollars to pursue - after Kodak and Rich foods, exactly how many other big employers are there in greater Buffalo?

I don't think this is necessarily over, nor do I believe that the players vs. owners is the main issue. This is an owner vs. owner issue. We shall see who gets :own3d:

 
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i thought this was a balanced article that didn't oversimplify some of the truly complex issues that have beset league ownership... it was written by the author of barbarians at the gate, & he is obviously familiar with many of the finer points of the debate...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?i...ht&lid=tab1pos1

Labor peace threatened by rift between owners

By John Helyar

ESPN.com

As the National Football League and its players try to close their differences, another dueling set of economic interests must also try to close theirs: the NFL owners. The NFL's long era of labor peace is in danger of blowing apart, not just because Gene Upshaw wants a bigger piece of the revenue pie, but because small-market owners like Buffalo's Ralph Wilson and Jacksonville's Wayne Weaver do, too.

The NFL has enjoyed labor harmony like no other league since its 1993 collective bargaining agreement, which created the current salary cap and free-agency rules. The agreement has quietly been renewed four times. This go-around, however, Commissioner Paul Tagliabue has been playing a far more difficult game of three-dimensional chess.

Number one is with the NFL Players Association, which wants a bigger piece of the revenue pie. Number two is with his owners, among whom a $100 million-plus gap has grown between the teams with the most revenues and those with the least. Number three, arguably, is with the NFL's stakeholders: Sponsors and broadcasters, fans and municipalities. Tagliabue must convince them that any changes these negotiations produce will preserve the economic and competitive parity that has fueled the league's 13-year growth surge.

"Here is a substantial and growing difference between the high and low revenue teams and it's a significant issue," says Dean Bonham, a sports-business consultant who worked for Jacksonville in its recent renegotiation of the Jaguars' stadium lease. "It has to be resolved or they're headed for the kind of disparity we've seen in Major League Baseball."

The economic backbone of the NFL has been broad-based revenue-sharing ever since 1961, when then-commissioner Pete Rozelle convinced teams to split network TV money equally. Franchises could thus exist in markets as disparate as New York and Green Bay because national broadcast rights provided clubs with a common, equal economic foundation. The national TV deals are still by far the greatest source of income for NFL teams, with each receiving about $85 million last year.

What has changed is the amount of locally generated revenue, which as recently as 1993 was paltry enough that the union didn't press to include it in "designated gross revenue." (That's the pool of money that determines the salary cap.) The stadium-building boom since then, however, has produced facilities which throw off huge sums of cash: from suite leases, naming rights, corporate sponsors and a cornucopia of other income-producing opportunities. Locally generated income has grown from 12 percent of total league revenue to 20 percent, according to league officials.

It's not just the union that wants to tap into these lush revenue streams, but a growing number of owners. This is unshared revenue, and this is what has opened the yawning gap, between the league's haves and have-nots. "The teams in smaller markets, like Jacksonville and Cincinnati, got their stadiums first," says Marc Ganis of Sportscorp Ltd., who has consulted on a number of NFL stadium deals. "Then it was the big markets' turn -- Boston, Houston, Philadelphia, and soon New York and Dallas. The disparities between markets have become magnified."

That's because the teams in bigger cities have more corporate fat cats and can command more for their premium seating. The New England Patriots lease their suites for $100,000 to $300,000 a year, according to a team spokesman. Some of the Indianapolis Colts' suites go for as little as $34,000, according to the sports division of Fitch Ratings, which rates stadium bond issues. Reliant Energy pays $10 million a year to hang its name on the Houston Texans' stadium. RCA has been paying the Colts only $1 million a year for stadium "naming rights," according to Fitch.

A team like the Rams, which ranked among the top six NFL franchises in revenue after its 1995 move from Los Angeles to St. Louis, is now in the bottom half of the league, according to Ganis. Its once-enviable stadium deal has been eclipsed by those of bigger markets. A team like the Jaguars recently had to overhaul its lease with Jacksonville, in an effort to keep within hailing distance of bigger market teams. According to union officials, high-revenue teams like Washington and Dallas spend about 40 percent of their gross on player payroll, while low-revenue teams like Indianapolis spend about 70 percent on payroll.

The last time things seemed this out of whack was back when distressed franchises like the Rams, Cleveland Browns and Houston Oilers were hop-scotching around the country looking for greener pastures in St. Louis, Baltimore and Nashville, respectively. The league initiated some programs that helped settle things down: a supplemental revenue-sharing program, which makes a $40 million pool available to low-end clubs and its G-3 stadium program, which since 1999 has extended nearly $700 million to help clubs finance new facilities. But even with a 53 percent increase in TV rights fees about to kick in, guaranteeing $3.7 billion per year through 2011, the league has lurched out of economic equilibrium again -- all because of the growth of unshared revenue. "The tectonic plates get out of whack and start to grind against each other," says one league official.

In 2004, Commissioner Tagliabue formed an owners' economic study committee, which so far has mostly just laid bare the economic fault lines among the owners. The committee is chaired by Texans owners Bob McNair, who is every bit the new-breed owner. He paid $700 million for his expansion franchise and must run it aggressively to make it pay off. On the other end of the spectrum is the Pittsburgh Steelers' Dan Rooney, whose father founded the team for a fee of $2,500 in 1933. They may play the same game, but it's almost as though they aren't in the same business.

It's not that most high-revenue teams are dead set against broadened revenue sharing. According to a league official, McNair's committee has been kicking around formulas calling for sharing anywhere from 20 percent to 34 percent of now unshared local revenues. But owners who have privately financed new stadiums want their debt and other expenses taken into account, not just their gross.

Bob Kraft vaulted his New England Patriots from dead last in the NFL in revenue, at the time he bought the club in 1994, to near the top of the league after opening Gillette Stadium in 2002. But he also took on $350 million of debt. And high-powered entrepreneurs like the Cowboys' Jerry Jones, who maximize every revenue opportunity extant, say they refuse to subsidize less driven ones. Make the "have nots" meet certain business performance standards, they declare, before being eligible for "welfare." (Yes, that sort of pejorative occasionally gets tossed around in these heated discussions among multi-millionaires.)

The entrepreneurs can neither understand nor abide an old-guarder like Cincinnati Bengals owner Mike Brown, who decided against putting a company's name on his new stadium -- and pocketing big bucks -- and instead named it Paul Brown Stadium, in honor of his father. Says one team executive: "It's a philosophical split, as well as an economic one."

There's another aspect to the debate, too: is the revenue disparity really here to stay, unless owners change the way they divide the pie? Or is this just a transitional period, which doesn't call for structural change? The big-revenue owners point to "poor" clubs like the Indianapolis Colts and Arizona Cardinals, which have new stadiums in the works and which will no longer be laggards. The Green Bay Packers moved onto sold financial footing after revamping Lambeau Field, along with making it more a year-round tourist attraction. The team -- the only one in the NFL to publicly report its financials -- made a net profit of $25 million in its 2005 fiscal year, ended last March 31. But small-market owners don't generally buy the "transitional" argument. Some now openly, bitterly note that they helped finance the cash-spewing big-market stadiums, by approving G-3 financing, and they deserve a return on their investment.

It takes a two-thirds vote of owners (24 of 32) to change the revenue-sharing formula, and that's tough enough. But it's harder still because nearly half of the NFL owners (14) are new since 1993. They bought their pricey franchises and built their costly stadiums under the assumptions and economics of the current system. It's hard to blame the New Guarders for resisting change, especially when the Old Guard's interests seemed so closely aligned with the union's. But the fact is that the NFL's foundation was laid, at key junctures, by owners who put the league's overall interests ahead of their own.

If Wellington Mara hadn't sacrificed his New York Giants' TV rights in order to allow Rozelle to sell a national network package to CBS, the league would never have enjoyed its first great growth spurt in the 1960s. Many billions of dollars later, this may be another key juncture.

"You've got institutional memory butting up against the realities of leveraged debt," says Michael MacCambridge, author of an authoritative NFL history, America's Game. "In the past, the people with institutional memory have held sway, but that doesn't necessarily mean it will be that way this time."

 
i thought this was a balanced article that didn't oversimplify some of the truly complex issues that have beset league ownership... it was written by the author of barbarians at the gate, & he is obviously familiar with many of the finer points of the debate...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?i...ht&lid=tab1pos1

Labor peace threatened by rift between owners

By John Helyar

ESPN.com

As the National Football League and its players try to close their differences, another dueling set of economic interests must also try to close theirs: the NFL owners. The NFL's long era of labor peace is in danger of blowing apart, not just because Gene Upshaw wants a bigger piece of the revenue pie, but because small-market owners like Buffalo's Ralph Wilson and Jacksonville's Wayne Weaver do, too.

The NFL has enjoyed labor harmony like no other league since its 1993 collective bargaining agreement, which created the current salary cap and free-agency rules. The agreement has quietly been renewed four times. This go-around, however, Commissioner Paul Tagliabue has been playing a far more difficult game of three-dimensional chess.

Number one is with the NFL Players Association, which wants a bigger piece of the revenue pie. Number two is with his owners, among whom a $100 million-plus gap has grown between the teams with the most revenues and those with the least. Number three, arguably, is with the NFL's stakeholders: Sponsors and broadcasters, fans and municipalities. Tagliabue must convince them that any changes these negotiations produce will preserve the economic and competitive parity that has fueled the league's 13-year growth surge.

"Here is a substantial and growing difference between the high and low revenue teams and it's a significant issue," says Dean Bonham, a sports-business consultant who worked for Jacksonville in its recent renegotiation of the Jaguars' stadium lease. "It has to be resolved or they're headed for the kind of disparity we've seen in Major League Baseball."

The economic backbone of the NFL has been broad-based revenue-sharing ever since 1961, when then-commissioner Pete Rozelle convinced teams to split network TV money equally. Franchises could thus exist in markets as disparate as New York and Green Bay because national broadcast rights provided clubs with a common, equal economic foundation. The national TV deals are still by far the greatest source of income for NFL teams, with each receiving about $85 million last year.

What has changed is the amount of locally generated revenue, which as recently as 1993 was paltry enough that the union didn't press to include it in "designated gross revenue." (That's the pool of money that determines the salary cap.) The stadium-building boom since then, however, has produced facilities which throw off huge sums of cash: from suite leases, naming rights, corporate sponsors and a cornucopia of other income-producing opportunities. Locally generated income has grown from 12 percent of total league revenue to 20 percent, according to league officials.

It's not just the union that wants to tap into these lush revenue streams, but a growing number of owners. This is unshared revenue, and this is what has opened the yawning gap, between the league's haves and have-nots. "The teams in smaller markets, like Jacksonville and Cincinnati, got their stadiums first," says Marc Ganis of Sportscorp Ltd., who has consulted on a number of NFL stadium deals. "Then it was the big markets' turn -- Boston, Houston, Philadelphia, and soon New York and Dallas. The disparities between markets have become magnified."

That's because the teams in bigger cities have more corporate fat cats and can command more for their premium seating. The New England Patriots lease their suites for $100,000 to $300,000 a year, according to a team spokesman. Some of the Indianapolis Colts' suites go for as little as $34,000, according to the sports division of Fitch Ratings, which rates stadium bond issues. Reliant Energy pays $10 million a year to hang its name on the Houston Texans' stadium. RCA has been paying the Colts only $1 million a year for stadium "naming rights," according to Fitch.

A team like the Rams, which ranked among the top six NFL franchises in revenue after its 1995 move from Los Angeles to St. Louis, is now in the bottom half of the league, according to Ganis. Its once-enviable stadium deal has been eclipsed by those of bigger markets. A team like the Jaguars recently had to overhaul its lease with Jacksonville, in an effort to keep within hailing distance of bigger market teams. According to union officials, high-revenue teams like Washington and Dallas spend about 40 percent of their gross on player payroll, while low-revenue teams like Indianapolis spend about 70 percent on payroll.

The last time things seemed this out of whack was back when distressed franchises like the Rams, Cleveland Browns and Houston Oilers were hop-scotching around the country looking for greener pastures in St. Louis, Baltimore and Nashville, respectively. The league initiated some programs that helped settle things down: a supplemental revenue-sharing program, which makes a $40 million pool available to low-end clubs and its G-3 stadium program, which since 1999 has extended nearly $700 million to help clubs finance new facilities. But even with a 53 percent increase in TV rights fees about to kick in, guaranteeing $3.7 billion per year through 2011, the league has lurched out of economic equilibrium again -- all because of the growth of unshared revenue. "The tectonic plates get out of whack and start to grind against each other," says one league official.

In 2004, Commissioner Tagliabue formed an owners' economic study committee, which so far has mostly just laid bare the economic fault lines among the owners. The committee is chaired by Texans owners Bob McNair, who is every bit the new-breed owner. He paid $700 million for his expansion franchise and must run it aggressively to make it pay off. On the other end of the spectrum is the Pittsburgh Steelers' Dan Rooney, whose father founded the team for a fee of $2,500 in 1933. They may play the same game, but it's almost as though they aren't in the same business.

It's not that most high-revenue teams are dead set against broadened revenue sharing. According to a league official, McNair's committee has been kicking around formulas calling for sharing anywhere from 20 percent to 34 percent of now unshared local revenues. But owners who have privately financed new stadiums want their debt and other expenses taken into account, not just their gross.

Bob Kraft vaulted his New England Patriots from dead last in the NFL in revenue, at the time he bought the club in 1994, to near the top of the league after opening Gillette Stadium in 2002. But he also took on $350 million of debt. And high-powered entrepreneurs like the Cowboys' Jerry Jones, who maximize every revenue opportunity extant, say they refuse to subsidize less driven ones. Make the "have nots" meet certain business performance standards, they declare, before being eligible for "welfare." (Yes, that sort of pejorative occasionally gets tossed around in these heated discussions among multi-millionaires.)

The entrepreneurs can neither understand nor abide an old-guarder like Cincinnati Bengals owner Mike Brown, who decided against putting a company's name on his new stadium -- and pocketing big bucks -- and instead named it Paul Brown Stadium, in honor of his father. Says one team executive: "It's a philosophical split, as well as an economic one."

There's another aspect to the debate, too: is the revenue disparity really here to stay, unless owners change the way they divide the pie? Or is this just a transitional period, which doesn't call for structural change? The big-revenue owners point to "poor" clubs like the Indianapolis Colts and Arizona Cardinals, which have new stadiums in the works and which will no longer be laggards. The Green Bay Packers moved onto sold financial footing after revamping Lambeau Field, along with making it more a year-round tourist attraction. The team -- the only one in the NFL to publicly report its financials -- made a net profit of $25 million in its 2005 fiscal year, ended last March 31. But small-market owners don't generally buy the "transitional" argument. Some now openly, bitterly note that they helped finance the cash-spewing big-market stadiums, by approving G-3 financing, and they deserve a return on their investment.

It takes a two-thirds vote of owners (24 of 32) to change the revenue-sharing formula, and that's tough enough. But it's harder still because nearly half of the NFL owners (14) are new since 1993. They bought their pricey franchises and built their costly stadiums under the assumptions and economics of the current system. It's hard to blame the New Guarders for resisting change, especially when the Old Guard's interests seemed so closely aligned with the union's. But the fact is that the NFL's foundation was laid, at key junctures, by owners who put the league's overall interests ahead of their own.

If Wellington Mara hadn't sacrificed his New York Giants' TV rights in order to allow Rozelle to sell a national network package to CBS, the league would never have enjoyed its first great growth spurt in the 1960s. Many billions of dollars later, this may be another key juncture.

"You've got institutional memory butting up against the realities of leveraged debt," says Michael MacCambridge, author of an authoritative NFL history, America's Game. "In the past, the people with institutional memory have held sway, but that doesn't necessarily mean it will be that way this time."
:goodposting: but I liked my Reader's Digest version better :)
 
It's an odd situation, and Green Bay makes it even stranger. In my edited post above, you'll see that the Packers are a non-profit organization...every single penny goes back into the team. It's hard to even say they'd be 100% committed to either side. Sharing more revenue takes money out of no one's pockets on their end. On the other hand, there's no rich owner whose can pull out his wallet and pay exorbiting signing bonuses if spending gets out of whack. Green Bay simply banks extra revenue after expenses in a fund, I believe well over $120 million right now, generated only since the stadium renovation. They plan to just keep increasing that safety fund in order to keep up with this cash over cap situation. It's also used for stadium upkeep. One of the reasons the Pack's training facilities are the best. Also a reason why Green Bay shouldn't have to succumb to selling Lambeau's naming rights.

 
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Its a fascinating debate. The NFL owners are a bunch of ultra-succesful capatalists stuck in a socialist framework. And the rift between Rich and Poor Owners is far greater than the rift between Players and Owners.

Ultimatley, I agree with Jerry Jones (Gasp!) who says that the "Smaller" Owners should meet some 'minimum' revenue requirements before qualifying for total shared-revenues (which are funded-largely by the "Bigger Clubs"). If Mike Brown is not willing - at the very least - to find a sponsor and change the name of "Paul Brown" Stadium, why on earth should he be allowed to benefit from the other owners that DID generate revenues from Stadium-naming rights in their markets? Its absurd.

Ultimately, the small owners are going to have to capitulate. They may not like the current deal on the table, but they will like an uncapped year even less. Thats ultimtately why a deal will get done, imo.

 
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It's an odd situation, and Green Bay makes it even stranger. In my edited post above, you'll see that the Packers are a non-profit organization...every single penny goes back into the team. It's hard to even say they'd be 100% committed to either side. Sharing more revenue takes money out of no one's pockets on their end. On the other hand, there's no rich owner whose can pull out his wallet and pay exorbiting signing bonuses if spending gets out of whack. Green Bay simply banks extra revenue after expenses in a fund, I believe well over $120 million right now, generated only since the stadium renovation. They plan to just keep increasing that safety fund in order to keep up with this cash over cap situation. It's also used for stadium upkeep. One of the reasons the Pack's training facilities are the best. Also a reason why Green Bay shouldn't have to succumb to selling Lambeau's naming rights.
to be quite blunt about it... the Packers couldn't PAY a local business to put thier name on Lambeau Field, the business would be dead instantly as a large portion of Packer fans would refuse to ever buy thier product again...
 
It's an odd situation, and Green Bay makes it even stranger. In my edited post above, you'll see that the Packers are a non-profit organization...every single penny goes back into the team. It's hard to even say they'd be 100% committed to either side. Sharing more revenue takes money out of no one's pockets on their end. On the other hand, there's no rich owner whose can pull out his wallet and pay exorbiting signing bonuses if spending gets out of whack. Green Bay simply banks extra revenue after expenses in a fund, I believe well over $120 million right now, generated only since the stadium renovation. They plan to just keep increasing that safety fund in order to keep up with this cash over cap situation. It's also used for stadium upkeep. One of the reasons the Pack's training facilities are the best. Also a reason why Green Bay shouldn't have to succumb to selling Lambeau's naming rights.
to be quite blunt about it... the Packers couldn't PAY a local business to put thier name on Lambeau Field, the business would be dead instantly as a large portion of Packer fans would refuse to ever buy thier product again...
Larry is right - Mayflower in Maryland was shunned by locals for many years. The resentment still exists 22 years later after the trucks rolled out on a snowy March night bound for Indiana.
 
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:goodposting: but I liked my Reader's Digest version better :)
The point is that your Reader's Digest version was erroneous. You cited the Packers as the sole example of the "small market, we need more revenue sharing camp", which is a common falacy. Packers fans get uppity over stuff like this - we have a strong small market inferiority complex!
 
On the original article, the current CBA was implemented to give the players free agency with a salary cap. As far as I can tell, players love free agency. Player salaries have sky rocketed since they have been given free agency. So the players have not made out poorly either.

The negotiations are simply a case of having a very good thing and figuring out how to divide up the riches.

My prediction: there will be some sort of additional revenue sharing between teams and a program or incentive for lower revenue teams to increase local revenues.

 
It's an odd situation, and Green Bay makes it even stranger. In my edited post above, you'll see that the Packers are a non-profit organization...every single penny goes back into the team. It's hard to even say they'd be 100% committed to either side. Sharing more revenue takes money out of no one's pockets on their end. On the other hand, there's no rich owner whose can pull out his wallet and pay exorbiting signing bonuses if spending gets out of whack. Green Bay simply banks extra revenue after expenses in a fund, I believe well over $120 million right now, generated only since the stadium renovation. They plan to just keep increasing that safety fund in order to keep up with this cash over cap situation. It's also used for stadium upkeep. One of the reasons the Pack's training facilities are the best. Also a reason why Green Bay shouldn't have to succumb to selling Lambeau's naming rights.
to be quite blunt about it... the Packers couldn't PAY a local business to put thier name on Lambeau Field, the business would be dead instantly as a large portion of Packer fans would refuse to ever buy thier product again...
Who said it would have to be local? How about a larger company like Microsoft?
 
It's an odd situation, and Green Bay makes it even stranger. In my edited post above, you'll see that the Packers are a non-profit organization...every single penny goes back into the team. It's hard to even say they'd be 100% committed to either side. Sharing more revenue takes money out of no one's pockets on their end. On the other hand, there's no rich owner whose can pull out his wallet and pay exorbiting signing bonuses if spending gets out of whack. Green Bay simply banks extra revenue after expenses in a fund, I believe well over $120 million right now, generated only since the stadium renovation. They plan to just keep increasing that safety fund in order to keep up with this cash over cap situation. It's also used for stadium upkeep. One of the reasons the Pack's training facilities are the best. Also a reason why Green Bay shouldn't have to succumb to selling Lambeau's naming rights.
to be quite blunt about it... the Packers couldn't PAY a local business to put thier name on Lambeau Field, the business would be dead instantly as a large portion of Packer fans would refuse to ever buy thier product again...
Who said it would have to be local? How about a larger company like Microsoft?
they would still alienate a lot of people, and no company would do that...
 
The rich (but not super rich owner) can't afford to pay the higher tax (unless revenues are shared) or he will lose money. This is where the 56% and 60% differences reside in my opinion. At 56%, all owners likely can pay the salaries without additional sharing of new revenues. At 60% it is my understanding this is not the case.
I have a different opinion on this. I don't think any of the owners would lose money if the percentage went to 60%, I still believe all teams could meet the maximum salary cap number. However, this is the issue; the small business owners. These are the Bidwells, Rooneys, Browns et al who use their NFL franchise as their single source of income. What happens for these individuals is if the number gets pushed to 60%, they have to either choose to spend to the cap maximum or not spend to the cap maximum so they can take some money home. Although their franchises continue to appreciate in value thus making the ownership of the club a profitable situation, they don't have the liquid assets unless they start selling off portions of the club.Revenue Sharing: I know a lot of people question the big owners (Snyder and Jones) for not sharing their revenue; basically why they will not give away something for nothing. Although fair, this mentality of Jones and Snyder is the same mentality small single-business owners are taking in regards to the 60% cut for the players; these owners currently have a profit and they would be asked to give their profits away for nothing.

FYI - I don't side with the big market owners, I just understand their position. I definitely think the Union is overstepping it's bounds in this negogiation.

 
It's an odd situation, and Green Bay makes it even stranger. In my edited post above, you'll see that the Packers are a non-profit organization...every single penny goes back into the team. It's hard to even say they'd be 100% committed to either side. Sharing more revenue takes money out of no one's pockets on their end. On the other hand, there's no rich owner whose can pull out his wallet and pay exorbiting signing bonuses if spending gets out of whack. Green Bay simply banks extra revenue after expenses in a fund, I believe well over $120 million right now, generated only since the stadium renovation. They plan to just keep increasing that safety fund in order to keep up with this cash over cap situation. It's also used for stadium upkeep. One of the reasons the Pack's training facilities are the best. Also a reason why Green Bay shouldn't have to succumb to selling Lambeau's naming rights.
to be quite blunt about it... the Packers couldn't PAY a local business to put thier name on Lambeau Field, the business would be dead instantly as a large portion of Packer fans would refuse to ever buy thier product again...
Who said it would have to be local? How about a larger company like Microsoft?
they would still alienate a lot of people, and no company would do that...
:bs: You hear the same thing about ANY big stadium. We heard the same thing about Boston Garden. It's not the end of the world and SOMEONE would pay a LOT of money to name that stadium after themselves. I am not saying it is a good thing, but someone would do it for CERTAIN.

 
NFL Team Valuations

This is from 2004 but it does show the income differences between teams like the Redskins and Cardinals.

I really wonder how some of the bottom teams are going be profitable with the higher salary cap without more revenue sharing between the owners. The higher cap is good for teams like the Redskins, who will likely keep maxing it out, but teams like the Cardinals may go $20 million under year after year. My guess is that the owners will work out some agreement to share a portion of the extra revenues from stadiums, etc.

 
NFL Team Valuations

This is from 2004 but it does show the income differences between teams like the Redskins and Cardinals.

I really wonder how some of the bottom teams are going be profitable with the higher salary cap without more revenue sharing between the owners. The higher cap is good for teams like the Redskins, who will likely keep maxing it out, but teams like the Cardinals may go $20 million under year after year. My guess is that the owners will work out some agreement to share a portion of the extra revenues from stadiums, etc.
Arizona is opening the most modern, state of the art stadium in August.
 
It's an odd situation, and Green Bay makes it even stranger. In my edited post above, you'll see that the Packers are a non-profit organization...every single penny goes back into the team. It's hard to even say they'd be 100% committed to either side. Sharing more revenue takes money out of no one's pockets on their end. On the other hand, there's no rich owner whose can pull out his wallet and pay exorbiting signing bonuses if spending gets out of whack. Green Bay simply banks extra revenue after expenses in a fund, I believe well over $120 million right now, generated only since the stadium renovation. They plan to just keep increasing that safety fund in order to keep up with this cash over cap situation. It's also used for stadium upkeep. One of the reasons the Pack's training facilities are the best. Also a reason why Green Bay shouldn't have to succumb to selling Lambeau's naming rights.
to be quite blunt about it... the Packers couldn't PAY a local business to put thier name on Lambeau Field, the business would be dead instantly as a large portion of Packer fans would refuse to ever buy thier product again...
Who said it would have to be local? How about a larger company like Microsoft?
they would still alienate a lot of people, and no company would do that...
:bs: You hear the same thing about ANY big stadium. We heard the same thing about Boston Garden. It's not the end of the world and SOMEONE would pay a LOT of money to name that stadium after themselves. I am not saying it is a good thing, but someone would do it for CERTAIN.
the only possibility would be a national company (like Microsoft) there isn't a local company or even a Wisconsin-based company that would even DREAM of putting htier name on Lambeau...besides, most of the likely sources or renaming the stadium have already sponsored "pieces" of the stadium, so they should be ok and are getting namings rights fees of some sort.

 
:goodposting: but I liked my Reader's Digest version better :)
The point is that your Reader's Digest version was erroneous. You cited the Packers as the sole example of the "small market, we need more revenue sharing camp", which is a common falacy. Packers fans get uppity over stuff like this - we have a strong small market inferiority complex!
I've already rescinded the comment about Green Bay, although they still are getting lumped in by many reporters as if they were in the small market owner camp. The natural assumption comes from Green Bay being in a small market, but Packers fans are right in that there's no "owner" bellyaching about revenue sharing.I still believe in my "Reader's Digest" version:

Green Bay is always just lopped in there as an assumption. The reason I can say this with confidence is because they really don't maintain a national profile with the national media. There really is no face for them nationally with regard to the media on league matters. So whenever you read a report that sticks Green Bay with the 9-10 holdouts who want more revenue sharing its an assumption.

The Packers face and representive behind closed doors is team president Bob Harlan. But he's far from a demanding character in all this. Pretty much goes with whatever the NFL decides.

There are 9-10 owners fighting hard for a bigger slice of the pie, and 9-10 that don't really want to divide it more. From everything I've read locally and nationally, my bet is that GB is in that other 10-12 watching from the sidelines.
Fair enough.I think that there's validity to both camps.

Nearly half of the NFL owners (14) are new since 1993 when the current CBA architecture was implimented.

When these owners purchased their franchises, they paid a premium associated with that franchise (e.g. Dan Snyder / Washington) that included this extra revenue. So now these relatively new owners are about to have their personal investments devalued. Some have also improved team revenues via stadium names and other advertising rights (Washington was the first with a sponsor backdrop at press conferences). With profit sharing, they will be less incentivized to go get these extra dollars nor will they have any say in how well other teams pursue these dollars.

As for the owners that want to get more sharing, I can't say I blame them. In the Wellington Mara spirit, the league was founded in the early 60's upon the "haves" agreeing to share $$ with the "have nots". "Cash over cap" money has grown year over year as teams market more locally and with corporate names on the stadium and in the luxury boxes. Some markets just don't have that many dollars to pursue - after Kodak and Rich foods, exactly how many other big employers are there in greater Buffalo?

I don't think this is necessarily over, nor do I believe that the players vs. owners is the main issue. This is an owner vs. owner issue. We shall see who gets :own3d:
 
the only possibility would be a national company (like Microsoft) there isn't a local company or even a Wisconsin-based company that would even DREAM of putting htier name on Lambeau...

besides, most of the likely sources or renaming the stadium have already sponsored "pieces" of the stadium, so they should be ok and are getting namings rights fees of some sort.
Who cares where the money comes from? My point is, if the pack said they were selling the naming rights today, they'd have offers tomorrow. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.
 
the only possibility would be a national company (like Microsoft) there isn't a local company or even a Wisconsin-based company that would even DREAM of putting htier name on Lambeau...

besides, most of the likely sources or renaming the stadium have already sponsored "pieces" of the stadium, so they should be ok and are getting namings rights fees of some sort.
Who cares where the money comes from? My point is, if the pack said they were selling the naming rights today, they'd have offers tomorrow. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.
they tried a little, sent out feelers to see who would be interested in renaming the whole stadium when they were doing the other stuff and NO ONE was interested...
 
The rich (but not super rich owner) can't afford to pay the higher tax (unless revenues are shared) or he will lose money.  This is where the 56% and 60% differences reside in my opinion.  At 56%, all owners likely can pay the salaries without additional sharing of new revenues.  At 60% it is my understanding this is not the case.
I have a different opinion on this. I don't think any of the owners would lose money if the percentage went to 60%, I still believe all teams could meet the maximum salary cap number. However, this is the issue; the small business owners. These are the Bidwells, Rooneys, Browns et al who use their NFL franchise as their single source of income. What happens for these individuals is if the number gets pushed to 60%, they have to either choose to spend to the cap maximum or not spend to the cap maximum so they can take some money home. Although their franchises continue to appreciate in value thus making the ownership of the club a profitable situation, they don't have the liquid assets unless they start selling off portions of the club.Revenue Sharing: I know a lot of people question the big owners (Snyder and Jones) for not sharing their revenue; basically why they will not give away something for nothing. Although fair, this mentality of Jones and Snyder is the same mentality small single-business owners are taking in regards to the 60% cut for the players; these owners currently have a profit and they would be asked to give their profits away for nothing.

FYI - I don't side with the big market owners, I just understand their position. I definitely think the Union is overstepping it's bounds in this negogiation.
I'll give you alla little inside poop. Onion is right The small market teams have to decide if they want to spend up to the cap or not.There are two issues that drive the NFLPA right now. 1 is a BIG potential revenue producer, the other a BIG revenue drain on small market teams.

1-Big Revenue Potential=NFL Network. The players now see games getting moved to this network, and want a peice of that pie. This is different from the "sold" rights deals w/ ESPN et al. This is a portion of revenue the owners can in effect "hide". They say it costs X$'s to run the Network and they can offset the X$'s of income against it.

2-Big Revenue Cost for small market teams=Health Insurance. All Vested NFL Players want LIFETIME HEALTH INSURANCE BENEFITS. Imaging the expense of paying for a families health insurance for a guy who is football "old" at 35? but not old by any stretch in real working years tearms. This cost alone drives the % numbers of payroll/cost up between 5%-7% PER YEAR when compounded.

So the botton line? There are two BIG issues, that have very little to do w/ cash over cap and actual payroll that are hurting this deal.

 
It's an odd situation, and Green Bay makes it even stranger. In my edited post above, you'll see that the Packers are a non-profit organization...every single penny goes back into the team. It's hard to even say they'd be 100% committed to either side. Sharing more revenue takes money out of no one's pockets on their end. On the other hand, there's no rich owner whose can pull out his wallet and pay exorbiting signing bonuses if spending gets out of whack. Green Bay simply banks extra revenue after expenses in a fund, I believe well over $120 million right now, generated only since the stadium renovation. They plan to just keep increasing that safety fund in order to keep up with this cash over cap situation. It's also used for stadium upkeep. One of the reasons the Pack's training facilities are the best. Also a reason why Green Bay shouldn't have to succumb to selling Lambeau's naming rights.
to be quite blunt about it... the Packers couldn't PAY a local business to put thier name on Lambeau Field, the business would be dead instantly as a large portion of Packer fans would refuse to ever buy thier product again...
Who said it would have to be local? How about a larger company like Microsoft?
they would still alienate a lot of people, and no company would do that...
Hardly. But if this is the case then shouldn'y all those who would feel alienated step up and fork over the difference for not having a sponsorship?
 
the only possibility would be a national company (like Microsoft) there isn't a local company or even a Wisconsin-based company that would even DREAM of putting htier name on Lambeau...

besides, most of the likely sources or renaming the stadium have already sponsored "pieces" of the stadium, so they should be ok and are getting namings rights fees of some sort.
Who cares where the money comes from? My point is, if the pack said they were selling the naming rights today, they'd have offers tomorrow. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.
The Packers are different team than most and just talking about renaming the stadium would cause an uproar. I doubt many companies want to get involved in destroying a legendary stadium like that and the negative publicity it would cause.
 
the only possibility would be a national company (like Microsoft) there isn't a local company or even a Wisconsin-based company that would even DREAM of putting htier name on Lambeau...

besides, most of the likely sources or renaming the stadium have already sponsored "pieces" of the stadium, so they should be ok and are getting namings rights fees of some sort.
Who cares where the money comes from? My point is, if the pack said they were selling the naming rights today, they'd have offers tomorrow. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.
The Packers are different team than most and just talking about renaming the stadium would cause an uproar. I doubt many companies want to get involved in destroying a legendary stadium like that and the negative publicity it would cause.
Where as Boston Garden was chopped liver and no one cared about renaming it?San Fran fans thought the same thing about candlestick, broncos fans thought the same thing about mile high, this is nothing new. No one wants to admit it but SOMEONE would pay to rename ANY stadium.

 
the only possibility would be a national company (like Microsoft) there isn't a local company or even a Wisconsin-based company that would even DREAM of putting htier name on Lambeau...

besides, most of the likely sources or renaming the stadium have already sponsored "pieces" of the stadium, so they should be ok and are getting namings rights fees of some sort.
Who cares where the money comes from? My point is, if the pack said they were selling the naming rights today, they'd have offers tomorrow. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.
The Packers are different team than most and just talking about renaming the stadium would cause an uproar. I doubt many companies want to get involved in destroying a legendary stadium like that and the negative publicity it would cause.
Regardless, there is a gap in renenue generation because other clubs have sold their naming rights to their fields. If the Packers don't want to sell the naming rights to Lambeau field, that is fine. However, they still have an obligation to close the gap in terms of generating revenue. The alternative would be raising ticket sales so the Packers could subsidize themselves for not selling the naming rights.In what I expect the words of Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones to be, "Don't give me excuses, give me solutions."

 
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the only possibility would be a national company (like Microsoft) there isn't a local company or even a Wisconsin-based company that would even DREAM of putting htier name on Lambeau...

besides, most of the likely sources or renaming the stadium have already sponsored "pieces" of the stadium, so they should be ok and are getting namings rights fees of some sort.
Who cares where the money comes from? My point is, if the pack said they were selling the naming rights today, they'd have offers tomorrow. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.
The Packers are different team than most and just talking about renaming the stadium would cause an uproar. I doubt many companies want to get involved in destroying a legendary stadium like that and the negative publicity it would cause.
Regardless, there is a gap in renenue gerenation because other clubs have sold their naming rights to field. If the Packers don't want to selling the naming rights to Lambeau field, that is fine. However, they still have an obligation to close the gap in terms of generating revenue. The alternative would be raising ticket sales so the Packers could subsidize themselves for not selling the naming rights.In what I expect the words of Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones to be, "Don't give me excuses, give me solutions."
I agree.
 
I'm kinda looking forward to the possibility of "anarchy." I'd love to see how the league looks when there is no cap, contract rules or even a draft.

 
The fans and owners love the cap. It keeps a level playing field. NFL Players have agreed to play under a cap as long as they are treated fairly. But everyone knows that if the cap was lifted, players would likely get even more revenue eventually. Just look at Baseball and Hockey as examples. Certian owners will pay whatever it takes to create a winner. It only takes 3 to 4 of these owners and the dollars available for salaries would be greater. The NFLPA and players certainly know this. The owners also know this, but it's hard to quantify. The NFLPA estimates that 70% of revenues would be available for salaries in an open market. This is probably not far from the truth.
Good post. But a few quick questions about that 70% figure. How in the world do they come up with that? And does that assume revenues will stay the same? I think it's possible that a capless NFL would lose attendance and viewership. I know that personally I wouldn't want to watch an NFL that's anything like MLB. I think that there would be a very real possibility of an overall decrease in revenue. So even if the players take home 70% of the revenue, it could be less than what they're taking home now.

And even if there is no cap, you're still not going to see the outlandish spending like with the Yankees. The Yankees make a large amount of their money because of their tv and radio money. They don't have to share that with the other teams (well, they kind of have to with the semi-soft cap they have) like NFL teams share the tv money. On the other hand, some of those NFL guys are pretty rich...Paul Allen anyone?

 
the only possibility would be a national company (like Microsoft) there isn't a local company or even a Wisconsin-based company that would even DREAM of putting htier name on Lambeau...

besides, most of the likely sources or renaming the stadium have already sponsored "pieces" of the stadium, so they should be ok and are getting namings rights fees of some sort.
Who cares where the money comes from? My point is, if the pack said they were selling the naming rights today, they'd have offers tomorrow. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.
The Packers are different team than most and just talking about renaming the stadium would cause an uproar. I doubt many companies want to get involved in destroying a legendary stadium like that and the negative publicity it would cause.
Regardless, there is a gap in renenue generation because other clubs have sold their naming rights to their fields. If the Packers don't want to sell the naming rights to Lambeau field, that is fine. However, they still have an obligation to close the gap in terms of generating revenue. The alternative would be raising ticket sales so the Packers could subsidize themselves for not selling the naming rights.In what I expect the words of Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones to be, "Don't give me excuses, give me solutions."
Not to jump into a fight that isn't mine, but it has been posted multiple times on this board in the past week that the Packers are a top 10 revenue team. So it would seem that they are not under any obligation to close any gap because there is no gap for them to close. There is no reason to force them to sell the naming rights to their stadium because they have done a perfectly good job raising revenue without selling it.
 
If Wellington Mara hadn't sacrificed his New York Giants' TV rights in order to allow Rozelle to sell a national network package to CBS, the league would never have enjoyed its first great growth spurt in the 1960s. Many billions of dollars later, this may be another key juncture.
This is somewhat a disingenuous statement by the writer, I think he only tells half the story.Here is my two cents:

First, Wellington Mara- There is no doubt Wellington Mara was one of the most influential people when it came to shaping the NFL and what it is today. As a small market fan (Vikings), I thank him everyday for what he did. But I think it is important to acknowledge all the facts. Wellington Mara did not sacrifice his local New York television deal and turn it over to the NFL for nothing. Mara was willing to look at the big picture and realize the potential of a National Television Market, but Mara also took measures to ensure he had some input on how these joint-league wide decisions would be made. Fair enough.

Secondly, Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones - It is my believe that these owners are not to far removed from Wellington Mara and his actions in the 1960s. Mara, Snyder and Jones are all solid businessmen and certainly want what is best for the league. We know Mara was willing to sacrifice his monopoly on the New York television market (it is history), but I also think Snyder and Jones are willing to sacrifice their local revenue streams for revenue sharing as well. But much like Mara, who was willing to make a sacrifice provided he still had some input, I believe Jones and Snyder feel the same way. They don’t mind sacrificing their local revenue to smaller market teams in terms of revenue sharing, but they to want to secure some input on how these sacrifices are utilized.

 
There are two issues that drive the NFLPA right now. 1 is a BIG potential revenue producer, the other a BIG revenue drain on small market teams.

1-Big Revenue Potential=NFL Network. The players now see games getting moved to this network, and want a peice of that pie. This is different from the "sold" rights deals w/ ESPN et al. This is a portion of revenue the owners can in effect "hide". They say it costs X$'s to run the Network and they can offset the X$'s of income against it.

2-Big Revenue Cost for small market teams=Health Insurance. All Vested NFL Players want LIFETIME HEALTH INSURANCE BENEFITS. Imaging the expense of paying for a families health insurance for a guy who is football "old" at 35? but not old by any stretch in real working years tearms. This cost alone drives the % numbers of payroll/cost up between 5%-7% PER YEAR when compounded.

So the botton line? There are two BIG issues, that have very little to do w/ cash over cap and actual payroll that are hurting this deal.
Two solid points.
 
the only possibility would be a national company (like Microsoft) there isn't a local company or even a Wisconsin-based company that would even DREAM of putting htier name on Lambeau...

besides, most of the likely sources or renaming the stadium have already sponsored "pieces" of the stadium, so they should be ok and are getting namings rights fees of some sort.
Who cares where the money comes from? My point is, if the pack said they were selling the naming rights today, they'd have offers tomorrow. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.
The Packers are different team than most and just talking about renaming the stadium would cause an uproar. I doubt many companies want to get involved in destroying a legendary stadium like that and the negative publicity it would cause.
Regardless, there is a gap in renenue generation because other clubs have sold their naming rights to their fields. If the Packers don't want to sell the naming rights to Lambeau field, that is fine. However, they still have an obligation to close the gap in terms of generating revenue. The alternative would be raising ticket sales so the Packers could subsidize themselves for not selling the naming rights.In what I expect the words of Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones to be, "Don't give me excuses, give me solutions."
Not to jump into a fight that isn't mine, but it has been posted multiple times on this board in the past week that the Packers are a top 10 revenue team. So it would seem that they are not under any obligation to close any gap because there is no gap for them to close. There is no reason to force them to sell the naming rights to their stadium because they have done a perfectly good job raising revenue without selling it.
I believe the Packers are a top-10 team in net revenue, but not gross revenue which I believe seperates the haves and have nots.But lets assume the Packers are a top-10 team in revenue. Shouldn't the Packers try to emulate Wellington Mara and sell the naming rights to their stadium to help subsidize other small market clubs?

 
I'm kinda looking forward to the possibility of "anarchy." I'd love to see how the league looks when there is no cap, contract rules or even a draft.
I am intrigued by the possibility as well. As you know Yankee23Fan, I have become much more interested in the economics of sports than most of the actual sports themselves.
 
Is there a published list of NFL team revenues? Even a 1-32 ranking with no $'s would be interesting to see.

 
I believe Jones and Snyder feel the same way. They don’t mind sacrificing their local revenue to smaller market teams in terms of revenue sharing, but they to want to secure some input on how these sacrifices are utilized.
That's my take on it too. They do not mind sharing revenue if there's some effort on the part of those they're sharing with to boost income, or some input from the wealthier owners on business decisions to boost revenues. If those don't occur, it's just a pure welfare handout from the "extremely wealthy" to the "wealthy", and that will never fly.
 
From what I gather, there's 9-10 owners in the "small market, we need more revenue sharing" camp (Green Bay for example) and also 9-10 in the "super rich marketing genius" camps (Dallas, Wash, NYG, etc.)
Long time FFT'er here...been lurking since before that site went down. I felt the need to register after hearing Green Bay propped up as small-market whiner #1, one too many times. Green Bay is actually in the top ten of revenues. Yes, they do want revenue sharing to be protected and the cap to remain in place, but they are not the ones at the front of that charge. It's being led by the owners in Buffalo and Jacksonville. Green Bay doesn't even have an owner. The Packers are more of a passive player in this, hoping the NFL doesn't screw this up. It might be nitpicking, but I hate seeing Green Bay potentially ragged on by fans of teams in big markets as holding this thing up.I've witnessed it with the Brewers and cringe at any whiff of it aimed in the direction of the Pack.
Hi Mr. A, :goodposting: That is exactly the point I think. It would be a shame if the Packers ever got the point where the Brewers are. Or the Steelers to where the Pirates are. Or the Chiefs to where the Royals are. Etc.

In the long run, that's terrible for the game.

J

 
Great thread on all fronts.

The one issue that resonates with me is the aspect of including debt positions into the calculations for pooling non-core revenues [i.e., local]. Of COURSE teams that self-financed their stadiums should be given allowances against that debt burden, that's basic finance.

So ultimately if that's REALLY the hang up between the fat cat owners and the small market owners, I agree with Dodds that this will get itself worked out. Even the small market owners are well versed in financial valuation at a basic level [and then some], how they could legitimately argue against netbacks for debt burden is beyond me.

 

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