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NFL viewership off 11% YOY (1 Viewer)

Did you seriously just compare one of the most storied and successful franchise in sports that has been in LA for almost 60 years to a mediocre team with zero championships that has been in LA for a hot minute?
Estimates I've seen indicated that moving to Los Angeles increased the value of the Chargers franchise about $250 million. Of course that's just paper value - we won't know the true value until they try to sell. But I'm pretty sure the move has always been about increasing the asset value of the team for Spanos - he's never cared about any particular city or winning.

 
I don't really follow the NFL but Alex Spanos is in his 90s.  Dean mismanages the day-to-day operations but I think the old man is still the owner.  The estate tax was one of the reasons the Modells sold the Ravens.  Is that a near-term concern for the Chargers?

 
I don't really follow the NFL but Alex Spanos is in his 90s.  Dean mismanages the day-to-day operations but I think the old man is still the owner.  The estate tax was one of the reasons the Modells sold the Ravens.  Is that a near-term concern for the Chargers?
They haven't mentioned that as a motivation. Seems like these owners have been finding ways to make the tax hit not so crushing when they die. Pretty sure Dean wants to hand things over to his kids as well. John (his son, Alex's grandson) is heavily involved in the "management" of the team - including player evaluation/selection. So we're looking at long term suck here.

 
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Attendance is a big deal. Tickets and Concessions are key revenue, and they get Merch $ directly instead of thru the league. There is no way this attendance was part of the plan. There are people stressing out in a big way right now.

 
Too bad that game wasn't in London.  They could have probably had several thousand people in the crowd that could kick FG's better. 

Feel horrible for Folk though. This has to be tougher than a physical year ending injury.

 
If this attendance issue keeps up, the Raiders should move to LA where they have a massive fan base, and the Chargers should move to Vegas.  Vegas would adopt them 100x better than LA is now.

 
Using PFR's attendance numbers which look more complete than ESPN's, through the first 4 weeks, there were the same number of games, and attendance is down 118.5k total leaguewide, or 1.8k per game. The Chargers drop compared to last year accounts for 80% of that, dropping from about 57k in the first 3 homes games to 25k this year. 

Will it be that hard for the Chargers, once they have the new stadium, to get back to 57k a game? The Rams drew 83k last year. Actually, Rams were 2nd in home attendance according to PFR.

 
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Nope. Fell asleep during the pennst Clemson and Georgia games. Will tune in tonight and see what's up after dinner. Looks like some good games in progress. Hopefully that will make everyone happy but I'm sure the guys who like 50 pt margins will be sad

 
If this attendance issue keeps up, the Raiders should move to LA where they have a massive fan base, and the Chargers should move to Vegas. Vegas would adopt them 100x better than LA is now.
The Raiders don't want to move to L.A. because they want the free $750 million in taxpayer money for a new stadium (not to mention the low-interest loans and new Personal Seat Licenses).

Maybe the best thing for everyone is for the Davis and Spanos families to just switch franchises, with the Chargers moving to Las Vegas and the Raiders staying in Oakland.

 
Heinz field is only half full. Even with all of those Super Bowl trophies and playoff appearances nobody cares to go. Pittsburgh obviously isn't a football town.  They should move the Steelers to LA. 

 
they'll come back..but there are some really bad teams in the NFL now..Giants, Chargers, Ravens, Bears, Steelers..

plenty of big market teams on a downturn.so people dont watch.

the product is poor quality at best. the TV productions are lousy, enough with Terry Bradshaw he's 97 years old he's been around forever, time to move on..just stop it/

can't stand half of the announcers, the boo-hoo pregame stories about player X growing up in poverty and missing his mom bla bla bla.they're all the same. wash.rinse.repeat.

TNF has weakened the draw for me..it's CBS one week, NFN the next, Prime stream the next one,can we settle on ONE source for TNF games?! 

there's no consistency from teams, you can have one look dominant one week,and lousy the next..

 
they'll come back..but there are some really bad teams in the NFL now..Giants, Chargers, Ravens, Bears, Steelers..

plenty of big market teams on a downturn.so people dont watch.

the product is poor quality at best. the TV productions are lousy, enough with Terry Bradshaw he's 97 years old he's been around forever, time to move on..just stop it/

can't stand half of the announcers, the boo-hoo pregame stories about player X growing up in poverty and missing his mom bla bla bla.they're all the same. wash.rinse.repeat.

TNF has weakened the draw for me..it's CBS one week, NFN the next, Prime stream the next one,can we settle on ONE source for TNF games?! 

there's no consistency from teams, you can have one look dominant one week,and lousy the next..
They better hope the 2018 NFL QB draft class produces 5-6 NFL caliber starters because Gomer, Ben and Rivers are about done, Brees only has 1-2 left as does Brady. Right now the NFL product is mostly trash. Some games like the MIA-TENN game listed above are no better than USFL level play.

 
They better hope the 2018 NFL QB draft class produces 5-6 NFL caliber starters because Gomer, Ben and Rivers are about done, Brees only has 1-2 left as does Brady. Right now the NFL product is mostly trash. Some games like the MIA-TENN game listed above are no better than USFL level play.


Darnold and Rosen aren't exactly lighting the world on fire in the Pac10 right now.  Other than that the rest of the draft class is super spare.

 
At what point do owners see the writing on the wall and cash out?  I really don't see it being sustainable for much longer.  A poor product is hurting it, I think concussions will kill it.  

 
At what point do owners see the writing on the wall and cash out?  I really don't see it being sustainable for much longer.  A poor product is hurting it, I think concussions will kill it.  
What are you talking about. The ratings are doing fine. 

 
At what point do owners see the writing on the wall and cash out?  I really don't see it being sustainable for much longer.  A poor product is hurting it, I think concussions will kill it.  
Even 75% of billions of dollars is, let me do the math, is still a #### loads of money.

 
At what point do owners see the writing on the wall and cash out?  I really don't see it being sustainable for much longer.  A poor product is hurting it, I think concussions will kill it.  
So the owners see the writing on the wall but the people with billions of dollars to buy an NFL team don't?

The product isn't poor. It's excellent. Of course there will be ebbs and flows but footbaw ain't going nowhere.

 
What are you talking about. The ratings are doing fine. 
national game yesterday blows away anything else on tv.  a regular season, week 5 game tops all but about 10- 15% of MLB World Series games ever.. yet everyone says the NFL is failing.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/10/09/fox-gets-big-rating-for-packers-cowboys/

The game drew a 15.0 overnight rating, a big increase from the late afternoon national game in Week Five of the 2016 season. Last year’s comparable Week Five late afternoon game, Bengals-Cowboys on CBS, drew a 13.1 overnight rating, according to Austin Karp of Sports Business Daily.

That 15.0 overnight rating is one of the best ratings in the NFL this season, although it doesn’t quite match the 16.1 for Cowboys-Broncos in Week Two. The Cowboys are the NFL’s best TV draw.

 
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This kneeling issue is temporary. CTE will be the bigger problem
Just curious to your thoughts around this.  Do you think it will come out that the NFL decided to hide evidence that it knew about long term CTE implications and didn't do anything about it...thus destroying it's reputation?  Or do you think that people in general just won't let their kids play football and then it will reduce it popularity over time?  Or both?

I'm split.  I never played football growing up (my parents wouldn't let me), but I absolutely loved it and haven't stopped loving it since I was little.  I have a lot of friends in the same group.  It's the core foundation for so much of my memories (went to college at a big school, have season tickets to NFL, fantasy, gambling, etc).

But I know it's probably horrible for long term health effects sans a few positions.  But still not enough for me not to watch.

 
Just curious to your thoughts around this.  Do you think it will come out that the NFL decided to hide evidence that it knew about long term CTE implications and didn't do anything about it...thus destroying it's reputation?  Or do you think that people in general just won't let their kids play football and then it will reduce it popularity over time?  Or both?

I'm split.  I never played football growing up (my parents wouldn't let me), but I absolutely loved it and haven't stopped loving it since I was little.  I have a lot of friends in the same group.  It's the core foundation for so much of my memories (went to college at a big school, have season tickets to NFL, fantasy, gambling, etc).

But I know it's probably horrible for long term health effects sans a few positions.  But still not enough for me not to watch.
both.

I was exactly like you.  Didn't play, but grew up just like that.   My 20 year old son is a huge sports fan.  Doesn't watch the NFL.

 
Just curious to your thoughts around this.  Do you think it will come out that the NFL decided to hide evidence that it knew about long term CTE implications and didn't do anything about it...thus destroying it's reputation?  Or do you think that people in general just won't let their kids play football and then it will reduce it popularity over time?  Or both?

I'm split.  I never played football growing up (my parents wouldn't let me), but I absolutely loved it and haven't stopped loving it since I was little.  I have a lot of friends in the same group.  It's the core foundation for so much of my memories (went to college at a big school, have season tickets to NFL, fantasy, gambling, etc).

But I know it's probably horrible for long term health effects sans a few positions.  But still not enough for me not to watch.
I don't have an opinion about the NFL hiding evidence, but I do think more evidence is bound to come out. Safety and caution are becoming so much different and much more of a priority than when I grew up in the 80's. 

I have kids now who play youth sports, and there's already a societal stigma about the parents who let their kids play football (not by me). I've got to imagine that the more evidence that comes out about long term risk and effects, the more I think you'll see of a trickle down reaction. 

Just my opinion from my local bubble of experience. 

 
both.

I was exactly like you.  Didn't play, but grew up just like that.   My 20 year old son is a huge sports fan.  Doesn't watch the NFL.
     I read some information that showed the 18-35 demographic was down an estimated 20-25% of the 2015 highs which was down more significant than any other age or race.  

     Today, there are several times more entertainment options that even 10 years ago with streaming internet services.  E sports teams are now being valued at over $20 million in the US.  I remember gaming not too long ago and the largest contract team was valued at just over $1 million.  So a several thousand percent increase in a short amount of time.  In Korea, it’s their biggest sport.  

     Although the safety is a much longer term issue that will hurt the NFL, I do think the Anthem fiasco will help speed up the overall decline.  The Chargers and Rams moving to LA when there are several more popular teams in that city is cancerous as well.  You think STL and SD love the NFL still?  A lot of people hate how slow the game has gotten with instant replays, catches are almost impossible to call sometimes.  They bring a so called expert to tell us the outcome of a replay and the referee gives a different outcome.  The NFL is getting hit on many fronts, and some of these aren’t going away any time soon.  

 
i feel like everyone here is rooting for the nfl to go under.

football is what united us all here, and now, somehow, we feel wronged.

 
     I read some information that showed the 18-35 demographic was down an estimated 20-25% of the 2015 highs which was down more significant than any other age or race.  

     Today, there are several times more entertainment options that even 10 years ago with streaming internet services.  E sports teams are now being valued at over $20 million in the US.  I remember gaming not too long ago and the largest contract team was valued at just over $1 million.  So a several thousand percent increase in a short amount of time.  In Korea, it’s their biggest sport.  

     Although the safety is a much longer term issue that will hurt the NFL, I do think the Anthem fiasco will help speed up the overall decline.  The Chargers and Rams moving to LA when there are several more popular teams in that city is cancerous as well.  You think STL and SD love the NFL still?  A lot of people hate how slow the game has gotten with instant replays, catches are almost impossible to call sometimes.  They bring a so called expert to tell us the outcome of a replay and the referee gives a different outcome.  The NFL is getting hit on many fronts, and some of these aren’t going away any time soon.  
San Diego people are still incredibly livid.    ESports is now an official NCAA sport and my son might be on one of teams.  He went for some initial meeting and he said he yested out 3rd best for one of the games

 
San Diego people are still incredibly livid.    ESports is now an official NCAA sport and my son might be on one of teams.  He went for some initial meeting and he said he yested out 3rd best for one of the games
Congrats that’s exciting.  I did E sports for a couple years in the day, crazy to see how much it changed. Towards the end almost everyone was taking Adderall and some other stuff, something to keep in mind. Lots of legal brain and focus supplements as well, although I’m not sure how well they work.  

 
Just curious to your thoughts around this.  Do you think it will come out that the NFL decided to hide evidence that it knew about long term CTE implications and didn't do anything about it...thus destroying it's reputation? 

Probably.  But not soon enough to do anything about it.

Or do you think that people in general just won't let their kids play football and then it will reduce it popularity over time? 

Already happening here.  Slowly, but it's happening.  

Or both?
I don't think they are related.  The popularity of upper class sports like lacrosse is rising and basketball in lower classes is also hurting.

I'm split.  I never played football growing up (my parents wouldn't let me), but I absolutely loved it and haven't stopped loving it since I was little.  I have a lot of friends in the same group.  It's the core foundation for so much of my memories (went to college at a big school, have season tickets to NFL, fantasy, gambling, etc).

But I know it's probably horrible for long term health effects sans a few positions.  But still not enough for me not to watch.


I think the struggles are already being seen at all levels due to the decline in quality of play due to less practice. Soon you'll see less participation playing a role as ####tier players will be playing less football.  Then opportunities will go away as high schools no longer can support the costs, or there are lawsuits. 

Nobody will care in 30 years.  It won't vanish, but nobody will care.

 
I don't have an opinion about the NFL hiding evidence, but I do think more evidence is bound to come out. Safety and caution are becoming so much different and much more of a priority than when I grew up in the 80's. 

I have kids now who play youth sports, and there's already a societal stigma about the parents who let their kids play football (not by me). I've got to imagine that the more evidence that comes out about long term risk and effects, the more I think you'll see of a trickle down reaction. 

Just my opinion from my local bubble of experience. 
Makes sense.  Thanks.  Dreading the day of making the official decision.  My boys (twin 6 1/2 yos) absolutely love football.  Already decided they won't play tackle til high school at a minimum, and not even sure if I'll let them play that.  It killed me not to play when I was a kid and was pissed at my parents for it.

 
i feel like everyone here is rooting for the nfl to go under.

football is what united us all here, and now, somehow, we feel wronged.
I don't want it to go under in any form or fashion.  I think people are pissed b/c the NFL is taking its core customer for granted and thinks it's too big to fail.  It isn't....I'm not talking going under, but existing as we know might not be for much longer.

 
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Robert Kraft was at my office last Thurs...was asked where he would now look if buying another sports franchise...he said E-Sports.

 

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