Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
If Rogers returns & Miller is in the rotation I could see trading Nate, who might have lost his #5 spot to Jurrjins.
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***Official 2008 DETROIT TIGERS Thread*** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Doctor Detroit
- Start date
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
I doubt Bondo or Jurrjens are going anywhere but I agree on Robertson who does have value. Rumors abound on a Robertson for Renteria deal also.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Yes, there was a stat that they gave up 50 more runs from the 7th-9th than they scored. Of course some of that was a lack of late inning hitting compared to 2006.
ChrisCooleyFan
Footballguy
M. Cabrera played LF huh? What would it cost for him?
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Miguel Cabrera? Probably the entire farm system and Oscar's Coney Island on Grand River should be a good starting point.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Yeah he's like one of the nicest guys in baseball. He's super smart and a good hometown Chicago guy who treats the fans and city of Detroit with great respect. No wonder he is by far the most popular Tiger and that was even before this past season. Not my favorite Tiger, but he's in my top five and he's as nice an athlete as you will find.Green94 said:
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
The big talk around the campfire this week is the possibility of adding Geoff Jenkins to play LF next year. I don't think that is a horrible move but it's not something I'd be all that excited about either. Why bring in another guy who won't be patient at the plate?
If it's a one or two year deal and you can get a LH bat to play LF (Jenkins is also an above average LFer who can also play RF) while you wait for Maybin then that seems reasonable especially when you'll give some of those games to Ryan Raburn in LF. I have backed off my stance that Maybin will supplant Granderson in CF. Although I still believe Maybin has the better pure skills, Granderson is just too good to move. So now it seems Maybin would be out of CF but also IMO he'll be out of LF also. No reason to waste that big arm and range in LF when you can put him in RF in 2009 and move Mags to DH. I think it's probable that this will be Sheff's last year, so it all will probably work out. `
So the Tigers could IMO add a long-term solution in LF with a fat contract if such a player became available via trade. Adam Dunn immediately comes to mind but that will certainly cost some pitching. Jenkins, Shannon Stewart, and Mike Cameron could be more short term fixes and Ibanez would certainly be interesting. I'd like them to make a serious run at Kosuke ####udome who I think would be the perfect fit for Comerica with his gap power. Of all the choices, ####udome would be optimal compared to the others because we wouldn't have to give anything away and he's a LH with good power. I also am a fan of bringing Cameron in for one year. Curtis Pride is a FA also.
There is little doubt they will also add at least two relievers but one could be bringing Todd Jones back. With Bazardo, DelaCruz, and Zumaya the Tigers have three guys in the system with closer stuff. There is no sense spending a lot on a Francisco Cordero or giving any free agent closer anything more than a one year deal (so no Mariano). Thus I see Jones coming back but not necessarily as the closer.
SS is an interesting case. I like the Jack Wilson idea if he comes at a fairly low trade cost (mid level pitching prospect) because the Pirates already said they'd pick up some of his salary. Wilson I think would really benefit from a new environment and he's a very good fielder with a better bat than Santiago. Renteria may also be in play if the Tigers can not give the farm for his services. Some of his salary will be paid by Boston, which is always nice.
If it's a one or two year deal and you can get a LH bat to play LF (Jenkins is also an above average LFer who can also play RF) while you wait for Maybin then that seems reasonable especially when you'll give some of those games to Ryan Raburn in LF. I have backed off my stance that Maybin will supplant Granderson in CF. Although I still believe Maybin has the better pure skills, Granderson is just too good to move. So now it seems Maybin would be out of CF but also IMO he'll be out of LF also. No reason to waste that big arm and range in LF when you can put him in RF in 2009 and move Mags to DH. I think it's probable that this will be Sheff's last year, so it all will probably work out. `
So the Tigers could IMO add a long-term solution in LF with a fat contract if such a player became available via trade. Adam Dunn immediately comes to mind but that will certainly cost some pitching. Jenkins, Shannon Stewart, and Mike Cameron could be more short term fixes and Ibanez would certainly be interesting. I'd like them to make a serious run at Kosuke ####udome who I think would be the perfect fit for Comerica with his gap power. Of all the choices, ####udome would be optimal compared to the others because we wouldn't have to give anything away and he's a LH with good power. I also am a fan of bringing Cameron in for one year. Curtis Pride is a FA also.
There is little doubt they will also add at least two relievers but one could be bringing Todd Jones back. With Bazardo, DelaCruz, and Zumaya the Tigers have three guys in the system with closer stuff. There is no sense spending a lot on a Francisco Cordero or giving any free agent closer anything more than a one year deal (so no Mariano). Thus I see Jones coming back but not necessarily as the closer.
SS is an interesting case. I like the Jack Wilson idea if he comes at a fairly low trade cost (mid level pitching prospect) because the Pirates already said they'd pick up some of his salary. Wilson I think would really benefit from a new environment and he's a very good fielder with a better bat than Santiago. Renteria may also be in play if the Tigers can not give the farm for his services. Some of his salary will be paid by Boston, which is always nice.
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Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
HMM... some tough decisions this offseason I would probably like to see one of these options as my ideal offseason scenario:
Option 1:
Adam Dunn in LF
Jack Wilson/Renteria at SS
Rivera/Cordero to close
Option 2:
ARod in at 3B or SS
Ibanez in LF
Dotel in as setup man or Todd Jones back to close
Option 1:
Adam Dunn in LF
Jack Wilson/Renteria at SS
Rivera/Cordero to close
Option 2:
ARod in at 3B or SS
Ibanez in LF
Dotel in as setup man or Todd Jones back to close
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
oof
JohnDoe
Footballguy
As reported Elseware:
Tigers acquire Edgar Renteria from Atlanta Braves
DETROIT -- The Detroit Tigers announced today that the club has acquired shortstop Edgar Renteria from the Atlanta Braves in exchange for righthanded pitcher Jair Jurrjens and outfielder Gorkys Hernandez.
"We are excited to add an all-star caliber shortstop in Edgar Renteria to the Tigers organization," Tigers President, Chief Executive Officer and General Manager David Dombrowski said. "Edgar is a quality player, proven winner and tremendous leader that solidifies our infield."
Renteria batted .332 in 124 games with the Braves in 2007, scoring 87 runs and collecting 30 doubles, 12 home runs and 57 RBI. He tied for third in the National League with a .332 batting average.
A veteran of 12 seasons at the major league level with the Florida Marlins (1996-98), St. Louis Cardinals (1999-2004), Boston Red Sox (2005) and Braves (2006-07), Renteria has compiled a .291 batting average (1934-for-6637) in 1,722 games during his career. He has scored 1,021 runs during his major league career, while he has collected 370 doubles, 24 triples, 117 home runs, 762 RBI and 274 stolen bases.
"Edgar is a premier major league player that is a great fit for our club," Tigers Manager Jim Leyland said. "I have a great history with him and I'm looking forward to being reunited with him."
Renteria has been named to the National League's all-star squad five times during his career (1998, 2000, 2003-04, 2006). Additionally, he has won the Silver Slugger Award for National League shortstops three times (2000, 2002-03) and the Rawlings Gold Glove Award for league shortstops twice (2002-03).
Jurrjens started seven games for the Tigers in 2007, compiling a 3-1 record and 4.70 ERA (30.2IP/16ER). In 19 starts with Double A Erie last season, Jurrjens finished 7-5 with a 3.20 ERA (112.2IP/40ER).
Hernandez spent the entire 2007 season with Single A West Michigan and he batted .293 (141-for-481) with 84 runs scored, 25 doubles, five triples, four home runs, 50 RBI and 54 stolen bases in 124 games.
Tigers acquire Edgar Renteria from Atlanta Braves
DETROIT -- The Detroit Tigers announced today that the club has acquired shortstop Edgar Renteria from the Atlanta Braves in exchange for righthanded pitcher Jair Jurrjens and outfielder Gorkys Hernandez.
"We are excited to add an all-star caliber shortstop in Edgar Renteria to the Tigers organization," Tigers President, Chief Executive Officer and General Manager David Dombrowski said. "Edgar is a quality player, proven winner and tremendous leader that solidifies our infield."
Renteria batted .332 in 124 games with the Braves in 2007, scoring 87 runs and collecting 30 doubles, 12 home runs and 57 RBI. He tied for third in the National League with a .332 batting average.
A veteran of 12 seasons at the major league level with the Florida Marlins (1996-98), St. Louis Cardinals (1999-2004), Boston Red Sox (2005) and Braves (2006-07), Renteria has compiled a .291 batting average (1934-for-6637) in 1,722 games during his career. He has scored 1,021 runs during his major league career, while he has collected 370 doubles, 24 triples, 117 home runs, 762 RBI and 274 stolen bases.
"Edgar is a premier major league player that is a great fit for our club," Tigers Manager Jim Leyland said. "I have a great history with him and I'm looking forward to being reunited with him."
Renteria has been named to the National League's all-star squad five times during his career (1998, 2000, 2003-04, 2006). Additionally, he has won the Silver Slugger Award for National League shortstops three times (2000, 2002-03) and the Rawlings Gold Glove Award for league shortstops twice (2002-03).
Jurrjens started seven games for the Tigers in 2007, compiling a 3-1 record and 4.70 ERA (30.2IP/16ER). In 19 starts with Double A Erie last season, Jurrjens finished 7-5 with a 3.20 ERA (112.2IP/40ER).
Hernandez spent the entire 2007 season with Single A West Michigan and he batted .293 (141-for-481) with 84 runs scored, 25 doubles, five triples, four home runs, 50 RBI and 54 stolen bases in 124 games.
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
While the Tigers seem to have paid a bit too much, I think with so many older players that they feel they have to make this move. Sheffield, Pudge, Jones, Rogers (if he comes back), Ordonez, etc. aren't getting any younger. I think you have to go for it before the window closes.
Not only does he fill a huge hole at SS, he can lead off and allow Granderson to be moved down in the lineup.
Overall, I like the move.
Not only does he fill a huge hole at SS, he can lead off and allow Granderson to be moved down in the lineup.
Overall, I like the move.
whoknew
Footballguy
My first reaction was I hated it. But this is a team with a lot of money to spend, so I'm not too worried about losing Hernandez. He's a A ball player with a lot of potential -- but at the end of the day he's a slick fielding, singles hitter with great speed. A good prospect? No doubt. Irreplaceable? No.JJ -- that's tougher. It would be painful to trade the Braves another Smoltz. On the other hand, this certainly makes the Tigers pretty damn dangerous this year. And there is no such thing as a pitching prospect.If they win the WS -- and Renteria is good -- it'll all be worth it!
whoknew
Footballguy
Eh. I'm coming around on this trade. JJ looks good -- but we really don't know where he'd be. In reality, his ceiling is probably a 2/3 starter. And its not like the Tigers don't have a lot of young pitchers. And finally, there's no such thing as a pitching prospect!So -- I think its ok. I think its good.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Gorkys Hernandez is the player you have to be worried about becoming a star, not Jurrjens. Hernandez is a highly rated OF prospect (#2 in Tigers organization) with tremendous speed and range. Jurrjens has great control for his age but he has a fastball that tops out at 93 and usually hits between 89-90. Jurrjens also has some shoulder issues as we witnessed this year and the sample size for his production is way too small. He's definitely not the next John Smoltz, he's no where close to being that good. He probably was the #4 pitching prospect (if you still consider Miller in this conversation) and they still have Tata, Vasquez, and Bazardo outside of the aforementioned/suggested Trahern, Miller, and Porcello. Throw in Furbush and Crosby and losing Jurrjens doesn't really hurt at all. Hernandez however is a future everyday player who has tremendous speed. He doesn't have power but they are working on putting weight on him without taking away his speed. He's also a high single A player and three years away from playing in the show. What the Tigers are doing is realizing that this team with Pudge and Sheff near the end of their careers if not in their last year, Guillen and Mags on the downside of their peak years, and a very good pitching staff when healthy is trying to win right now. I think they have the opportunity to be good for awhile with all the pitching talent in the organization but they are close now to winning it all and Renteria is a fielding upgrade over Guillen and a hitting upgrade over Casey who he replaces in the line-up, and over Santiago who would have been the SS. Also the argument I've heard about what happened in Boston was more due to the pressure of playing there more than it had to do with Renteria being unable to adjust to the AL or anything of that sort. Renteria is an under the radar guy who will be playing with a manager he knows, for a team loaded with Hispanic players who are the team leaders. I think he'll feel a lot more comfortable in Detroit and produce above his career averages at the plate and better than Guillen in the field (which isn't saying a lot considering he probably would have had 40 errors if Casey wasn't a genius in digging balls out of the dirt). From Rotoworld:
From MLBTR
So overall this is definitely a good trade for the Tigers. Boston will pick up 3 million of Renteria's salary in 2008 so you are looking at around 17.3 million for an above average SS over the next two years. Jurrjens will be a good pitcher, Hernandez is still a mystery but a good bet to be an everyday player in the bigs in two or three years but with what kind of impact is uncertain.
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the moops
Footballguy
The big question is which Renteria are you going to get. Over the past 6 years, he has had 2 excellent years (2007 and 2003), 1 very good year (2002), 1 average year (2006) and 2 stinkers (2004 and 2005).
His OPS has been everywhere from as low as 720 to as high as 874. He has had some very good years in the field, and some pretty damn bad ones.
I wouldn't be all that excited, or all that disappointed in having him be my starting SS.
His OPS has been everywhere from as low as 720 to as high as 874. He has had some very good years in the field, and some pretty damn bad ones.
I wouldn't be all that excited, or all that disappointed in having him be my starting SS.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Per Buster Olney before the Renteria trade:
the moops
Footballguy
It is a good move. Dont know how anyone can call it "great" though.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Ya, I think right now it was a good move for you guys. You probably got the most return on JJ that you'd ever see and your major league OF should be 2/3 set for years to come (lessoning the blow of Gork becoming a solid player). I don't see the Braves doing this deal for one of them, and I'm not sure if there were other players discussed instead of both of these guys.This is the type of move I want to see my Tribe make, just not for a SS.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
He strikes out a lot but he also led all ML SS in BABIP which means when he does make contact he has a better chance to get a hit than most players. He will take between 45 and 60 walks and if he's batting later in the order (he'll bat 2nd or 7th IMO) he may be inclined to take more walks. Can't compare him to Pudge no matter what though. You are talking about only the second player in major league history with more than 500 PA in a season and less than 10 walks. He's averaged about three walks in every 100 ABs over the past 3 years while Renteria has averaged almost three times that.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Actually herd someone on the radio saying if we signed Arod and didnt make the WS, the Tigers would probably lose money this season.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Good. Lets move on and find someone to play LF and get the pitching staff set. All indications are that Rogers will return and I heard Schilling is asking for 13 mill a year, so he won't be coming which is fine by me.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
And yet there are still people (Stark) who say in the end it's going to be the Tigers, as they'll sit back--watch everything unfold--then pounce when the time/money is right.I think Kurchin said this morning he thinks it the Dodgers.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
for Schill or Arod?
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Sorry....Arod.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
I just don't think ARod would want to play in Detroit. I mean what does he really want? Is it just about the money? Does he want to win a championship and will he play at a slight discount to win one? What about his wife? LA seems logical for everyone but if he has to play at Dodger Stadium for the rest of his career that will hurt his chances of becoming the all-time HR leader. Same applies to Detroit really, we are talking two very friendly pitchers parks. My thought is that although I'd be nuts not to want A-Rod as a Tiger for his impact, I'm just not sure building a team like that makes sense. If the Tigers are willing to spend more money (keep in mind they shed a ton of salary after 2009) then why not wait and sign a couple of impact guys for less money? Plus the Tigers will have to start talking extensions with Verlander and Granderson as soon as next off season and they are gonna cost a lot. I think brining in A-Rod sets the franchise for a great 2008, but it's murky at best after with all that money going to just one player.Call me crazy but I'd rather have a good chance to win a title in seven of the next nine years instead of loading up for just a one or two year run. There are no guarantees either way so I'll take the long-term chance.
Greco
Footballguy
Party pooper. A-Rod would make Detroit sexy. I want it now!!! Nothing is guaranteed. Strike while the A-Rod is hot. Plus Inge could be shown the door....
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Even on the longshot of A-rod coming, I think they would still keep Inge as a super-sub like when he first came up. I like him in that role.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Win now. Dr.D besides the young pitching core, the positional players on this squad are old and need to win a title next year. Maggs,Pudge,Guillen,Sheff. these guys only have a years or two left. An Arod move sets us up for now and the the next 5 years too. I dont think it will happen though. Unless we spend the most, which I dont think we have the $$$ to do thatI would move sign Arod and much to Greco's dismay play Inge in Left, or go with Ryan Rayburn.
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Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
They can. They had a ton of injuries to the pitching staff this year which is unlikely to happen next year. They had the 5th best record in the AL this year and they were probably the 5th best team in baseball and for a month or so before the break, they were playing as well as anyone. They can win now, and will with or without A-Rod. Why throw so much gas on one fire when all it is going to do is burn out quicker?
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
good pointsThey can. They had a ton of injuries to the pitching staff this year which is unlikely to happen next year. They had the 5th best record in the AL this year and they were probably the 5th best team in baseball and for a month or so before the break, they were playing as well as anyone. They can win now, and will with or without A-Rod. Why throw so much gas on one fire when all it is going to do is burn out quicker?
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
slow playing his hand
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Exactly what Stark is thinking.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Where did you get this information? Don't think that's true at all.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Dombrowski presser notes courtesy of MTS
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Ilitch Forbes Magazine profile
He posed in front of one of the Tiger statues in front of Comerica wearing a Tigers jacket. No suit, no tie, no bull####ting. I love this guy.
Net worth: 1.5 Billion dollarsRank: 242nd richest American (Steinbrenner is 380)
He posed in front of one of the Tiger statues in front of Comerica wearing a Tigers jacket. No suit, no tie, no bull####ting. I love this guy.
ChrisCooleyFan
Footballguy
Sorry but this has Jeff Kent written all over it!!!!!
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
I've seen three sources now saying the Tigers will pursue Eric Gagne which I think is a great idea. I think he will be a lot cheaper because of his meltdown in Boston and his upside is higher than Cordero. Boras will likely want to deal with the Tigers since a lot of other suitors may try to lowball him. Chances of Gagne staying healthy for an entire season are almost zero but again, I think he has a lot of upside and the Tigers need this kind of arm in the pen. I think Jones comes back either way though unless he goes to Atlanta and the Tigers then get Dotel. I prefer Dotel (who has a team option) over all of them.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
herd some guy on fox sports radio this morning from MLBTV, seth? saying that the Tigers were his dark horse in the Arod sweepstakes
Bobcat10
Footballguy
I think this is a fantastic idea!
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Yes, Dotel & or Gagne would be an upgrade and their stats would be better in Commerica than most parks.Bobcat10 said:
