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***OFFICIAL*** 2013 MINNESOTA VIKINGS SEASON THREAD (1 Viewer)

cassell looking pretty good... he can stretch the field, has better arm than ponder, making better use of simpson...

competent passing game opening things up for peterson...

on jennings 70 yd catch and run for TD, he showed more burst than I have seen in about 2-3 years...

I'd they can get patterson involved, could have the makings of a good offense...

 
cassell looking pretty good... he can stretch the field, has better arm than ponder, making better use of simpson...

competent passing game opening things up for peterson...

on jennings 70 yd catch and run for TD, he showed more burst than I have seen in about 2-3 years...

I'd they can get patterson involved, could have the makings of a good offense...
This is the key. You don't have to be Peyton Manning w/ Peterson back there, just halfway decent. The switch in KC from Cassell to Alex Smith turning them from a 2 win team to 3 in 3 weeks isn't exactly a ringing endorsement but maybe the change of scenery is what Cassell needed.

 
Cassel is smarter than Ponder. Physically, Ponder and Cassel are equal. But Ponder hasn't mentally progressed in 3 years.

 
Cassel is smarter than Ponder. Physically, Ponder and Cassel are equal. But Ponder hasn't mentally progressed in 3 years.
:goodposting: Cassel seems like he is anticipating the WRs getting open much better than Ponder. Ponder seems to throw to the WR where Cassel throws to a spot and lets the receivers get it.

 
Everson Griffen postponed Frasier's firing today. Vikings D has so much talent and continues to under perform.
Do you really think Frasier is that close to being fired? Probably 2 more years (this year + next) given no major strides forward. Possible if they really suck this year and are in line for a high draft pick they try to get a new coaching staff to go with a new QB, but a record around .500 and we'll likely see the same coaching staff through next year as well. If they tank next year, then maybe a new staff so that they can build some momentum to carry into the new stadium opening the following year.

 
Cassel is smarter than Ponder. Physically, Ponder and Cassel are equal. But Ponder hasn't mentally progressed in 3 years.
:goodposting: Cassel seems like he is anticipating the WRs getting open much better than Ponder. Ponder seems to throw to the WR where Cassel throws to a spot and lets the receivers get it.
I agree Cassel's anticipation and ball placement is better. I'm still not convinced Ponder has been the biggest problem in the first few games, but the best player should play at each position (unless they are a rookie, obviously, I mean, lets not go crazy here.)

 
Everson Griffen postponed Frasier's firing today. Vikings D has so much talent and continues to under perform.
Do you really think Frasier is that close to being fired? Probably 2 more years (this year + next) given no major strides forward. Possible if they really suck this year and are in line for a high draft pick they try to get a new coaching staff to go with a new QB, but a record around .500 and we'll likely see the same coaching staff through next year as well. If they tank next year, then maybe a new staff so that they can build some momentum to carry into the new stadium opening the following year.
I would think Frazeir is far from safe, considering they only picked up this season on his contract.

 
Everson Griffen postponed Frasier's firing today. Vikings D has so much talent and continues to under perform.
Do you really think Frasier is that close to being fired? Probably 2 more years (this year + next) given no major strides forward. Possible if they really suck this year and are in line for a high draft pick they try to get a new coaching staff to go with a new QB, but a record around .500 and we'll likely see the same coaching staff through next year as well. If they tank next year, then maybe a new staff so that they can build some momentum to carry into the new stadium opening the following year.
I would think Frazeir is far from safe, considering they only picked up this season on his contract.
The Vikings picked up the option for 2014. Safe to say that if he doesn't improve, they won't extend it beyond that, but I don't see him getting fired after this season. Edit to add: there are rumors that he and the team have already talked about and potentially already negotiated a 3 year extension, to be announced soon. If true, wouldn't be surprised to see it announced during the bye week, after a win and during a relative low news cycle for the Vikes.

 
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Everson Griffen postponed Frasier's firing today. Vikings D has so much talent and continues to under perform.
Do you really think Frasier is that close to being fired? Probably 2 more years (this year + next) given no major strides forward. Possible if they really suck this year and are in line for a high draft pick they try to get a new coaching staff to go with a new QB, but a record around .500 and we'll likely see the same coaching staff through next year as well. If they tank next year, then maybe a new staff so that they can build some momentum to carry into the new stadium opening the following year.
I would think Frazeir is far from safe, considering they only picked up this season on his contract.
The Vikings picked up the option for 2014. Safe to say that if he doesn't improve, they won't extend it beyond that, but I don't see him getting fired after this season. Edit to add: there are rumors that he and the team have already talked about and potentially already negotiated a 3 year extension, to be announced soon. If true, wouldn't be surprised to see it announced during the bye week, after a win and during a relative low news cycle for the Vikes.
I would be shocked if they accounced an extension this week after the way the season has started.

 
Everson Griffen postponed Frasier's firing today. Vikings D has so much talent and continues to under perform.
Do you really think Frasier is that close to being fired? Probably 2 more years (this year + next) given no major strides forward. Possible if they really suck this year and are in line for a high draft pick they try to get a new coaching staff to go with a new QB, but a record around .500 and we'll likely see the same coaching staff through next year as well. If they tank next year, then maybe a new staff so that they can build some momentum to carry into the new stadium opening the following year.
I would think Frazeir is far from safe, considering they only picked up this season on his contract.
The Vikings picked up the option for 2014. Safe to say that if he doesn't improve, they won't extend it beyond that, but I don't see him getting fired after this season. Edit to add: there are rumors that he and the team have already talked about and potentially already negotiated a 3 year extension, to be announced soon. If true, wouldn't be surprised to see it announced during the bye week, after a win and during a relative low news cycle for the Vikes.
That would be ridiculous if they give Frazier an extension.

 
Everson Griffen postponed Frasier's firing today. Vikings D has so much talent and continues to under perform.
Do you really think Frasier is that close to being fired? Probably 2 more years (this year + next) given no major strides forward. Possible if they really suck this year and are in line for a high draft pick they try to get a new coaching staff to go with a new QB, but a record around .500 and we'll likely see the same coaching staff through next year as well. If they tank next year, then maybe a new staff so that they can build some momentum to carry into the new stadium opening the following year.
I would think Frazeir is far from safe, considering they only picked up this season on his contract.
The Vikings picked up the option for 2014. Safe to say that if he doesn't improve, they won't extend it beyond that, but I don't see him getting fired after this season. Edit to add: there are rumors that he and the team have already talked about and potentially already negotiated a 3 year extension, to be announced soon. If true, wouldn't be surprised to see it announced during the bye week, after a win and during a relative low news cycle for the Vikes.
That would be ridiculous if they give Frazier an extension.
I agree with you. I was just reporting that there are rumors that one is already done. Personally, he hasn't shown enough as a head coach to consider an extension, there are definitely times he almost looks lost and he has definitely been outcoached a number of times.

 
Cassel is smarter than Ponder. Physically, Ponder and Cassel are equal. But Ponder hasn't mentally progressed in 3 years.
:goodposting: Cassel seems like he is anticipating the WRs getting open much better than Ponder. Ponder seems to throw to the WR where Cassel throws to a spot and lets the receivers get it.
I agree Cassel's anticipation and ball placement is better. I'm still not convinced Ponder has been the biggest problem in the first few games, but the best player should play at each position (unless they are a rookie, obviously, I mean, lets not go crazy here.)
Cassel did get the ball out quicker, he was more decisive with the plays. Part of it was luck that some of those throws were not turnovers however.

Matt Cassel throws 2 near interceptions in the 1st quarter. The 2nd one just before the great catch n run by Jennings. Still not sure how Jennings does not get tackled there. Glad Jennings plays for the Vikings now. Cassel has thrown to the outside 4 times for completions. Trying to spread the Steelers defense out, but they are keeping 8 in the box for Peterson. Cassel almost throws another interception to Ike Taylor (2nd close one for Taylor). If that had been one of the Bears corners likely pick 6 just like what happened with Jennings when Ponder threw the pick 6.Cassel almost loses a fumble with 2 minutes left in good field position. Luckily Simpson recovers the fumble.

Chad Greenway missed Big Ben twice and has been blocked out of plays on the run. The TD by Bell was in part due to a nice trap block by Steelers FB on Greenway blitzing inside. Also a good block by the TE and some nifty moves by Bell to get outside on the run. Henderson has missed tackles on WR and Ben.

I will agree Cassell is more decisive. The throws to the outside does spread the defense out some and not something I saw Ponder doing as consistently as Cassell. At the same time this becomes predictable for the defense. The TE not being targeted much. Rudolph seems to still be having issues getting off the line.

The 60yd run by Peterson was due to a good block by Webb, Felton and Rudolph. Webb and Rudolph seal the lane that Felton clears for Peterson who then only needs to beat the safety for the score.

2 over 80 yard drives by the Steelers 2nd half and 3rd quarter keeps the Vikings offense off the field.

2nd TD by Peterson after several good blocks for 3 decent runs. The Vikings later on came back to running outside to the right, They did ok if they got Polamalu blocked. The adjustment to Joe Webb may be throwing off the blocking some as this is something Burton (now with Jaguars) was very good at. Having Felton back certainly helped, Ellison is missed. I still have not seen flare passes to Wright of Patterson out of the diamond. The Vikings have used Peterson as the up back on this against the Bears and Steelers, calling a couple run plays for him that were blown up behind the LOS. I would like to see the counters of this soon because the set up has been some wasted runs with AD so far.

Greg Jennings needs to do a better job of blocking.

After the Greenway interception caused by good pass rush by Allen, the Vikings use an out route by Rudolph and then a option post route by Jennings for the TD. These are good play calls after training the defense that the plays are outside to the WR all 1st half.

So while Cassel is an improvement from Ponder, I worry that teams may game plan for those outside throws, and Cassel needs to keep changing things up or some of those near interceptions will be interceptions. It worked this game though with a bit of luck.

The coverage seemed to be having Smith shading more to the left side of the field with Sanford out. The Vikings using Sendejo on the right at times behind Robinson and Rhodes playing underneath or alternating Smith to the right with Mistral Raymond mixing in. I like how Rhodes plays the ball. Sherels seems like the guy to pick on right now in coverage besides Robinson and the linebackers.
 
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I am finding myself liking Xavier Rhodes more and more every time I watch him play. He gets great bumps at the line that throws timing off. No one else on the team seems capable of this. He's draped all over the receiver he's covering. It wasn't a coincidence that Brown had so many catches since Rhodes was on Sanders most of the day. Even the catches he does give up, he is there immediately on the tackle, ensuring no YAC. I think he's got a chance to be a lock down corner if he develops his skills a little more. With him and Harrison Smith, we have 2 pieces of a great secondary. Too bad the rest of the guys back there are sieves.

 
I have no idea how Frasier can go back to Ponder.. Reading stories leading up to the game against the Steelers fromJennings and others about how players are "buying" into what Cassel says as he is more vocal.. and now this from Peterson:

Peterson raved about Cassel's presence in the huddle on Sunday. He did it in a way that made it seem that he doesn't believe Ponder has such an aura. He seemed to imply that Cassel was a better leader.

"[Cassel] is more vocal," Peterson said, "so he was out there and he was saying it to us in the huddle and you could see guys buying into it and keeping the huddle together. And that is all you can ask for from any player, especially in the quarterback position."
:mellow:

 
Peterson is right. Although Ponder has cleaned up his long "ahhhh"'s during press conferences somewhat, it is clear to me that he takes a long time to decide what he is going to say. By the time he says something it is usually very cliche and not something you come away from believing. Saying over and over that he has to play better but that is not showing up in his actions.

I think Cassel makes some risky throws at times. But it is not hard for me to imagine a more clear focus by the whole offense just because of his attitude and demeanor which is more confident than Ponder is.

But like Jim said upthread, perhaps Frazier has to start Ponder because of Spielman. If that is the case it is a mistake. I actually think it would be good for Ponder to ride pine awhile until he proves he has earned the right to start again instead of just giving the job to him because he was a 1st round pick by the front office.

 
Any chance the Vikings somehow make a play for Josh Freeman? Heard all kinds of things, but before the season if you said they could trade Ponder for Josh Freeman, about 99% of Vikings' fans would say do it...

 
Any chance the Vikings somehow make a play for Josh Freeman? Heard all kinds of things, but before the season if you said they could trade Ponder for Josh Freeman, about 99% of Vikings' fans would say do it...
don't see it happening. 1. Crap went down Tampa and no one has a real clear picture of what really happened.

2. They'd have to drop one of the 3 qb's as no way do they keep 4 qb's

 
Seems you can forget my previous post.. FOX reported Freeman spoke to both Fraiser and Speilman this past week. :shock:

He stated he will make his decsion tonight, but right now the Vikings and the Raiders are the Front Runners .. :popcorn:

 
Seems you can forget my previous post.. FOX reported Freeman spoke to both Fraiser and Speilman this past week. :shock:

He stated he will make his decsion tonight, but right now the Vikings and the Raiders are the Front Runners .. :popcorn:
The interesting thing about this (and a good thing, IMO) is that it shows that the front office is not confident with either Ponder or Cassel, as well they shouldn't be. Despite the public "he's our QB", just talking to Freeman seriously shows that they are aware that this is a significant area of need, and pretty much a vote of non-confidence in both.

I know they'll play it off as "hey, it's important to do our due diligence" if they don't get him, but to me, this is a really good sign that the Vikes are looking for fix this situation when they can.

 
Seems you can forget my previous post.. FOX reported Freeman spoke to both Fraiser and Speilman this past week. :shock:

He stated he will make his decsion tonight, but right now the Vikings and the Raiders are the Front Runners .. :popcorn:
The interesting thing about this (and a good thing, IMO) is that it shows that the front office is not confident with either Ponder or Cassel, as well they shouldn't be. Despite the public "he's our QB", just talking to Freeman seriously shows that they are aware that this is a significant area of need, and pretty much a vote of non-confidence in both.

I know they'll play it off as "hey, it's important to do our due diligence" if they don't get him, but to me, this is a really good sign that the Vikes are looking for fix this situation when they can.
:goodposting:

 
Seems you can forget my previous post.. FOX reported Freeman spoke to both Fraiser and Speilman this past week. :shock:

He stated he will make his decsion tonight, but right now the Vikings and the Raiders are the Front Runners .. :popcorn:
The interesting thing about this (and a good thing, IMO) is that it shows that the front office is not confident with either Ponder or Cassel, as well they shouldn't be. Despite the public "he's our QB", just talking to Freeman seriously shows that they are aware that this is a significant area of need, and pretty much a vote of non-confidence in both.

I know they'll play it off as "hey, it's important to do our due diligence" if they don't get him, but to me, this is a really good sign that the Vikes are looking for fix this situation when they can.
:goodposting:
I agree that Freeman is at least worth a look. I am not sure if the Vikings will take a chance on him because of the character issues. IF he has drug problems they likely won't. I wonder what happens to MBT if they did add him as well? I can't see the Vikings carrying 4 QB. Maybe they could cut Webb instead? I really do not see that happening. Webb is a team favorite.

Still I agree with you guys that it is a good sign that they are at least kicking the tires on Freeman.

Freeman still needs a lot of coaching to be worthwhile.

 
Seems you can forget my previous post.. FOX reported Freeman spoke to both Fraiser and Speilman this past week. :shock:

He stated he will make his decsion tonight, but right now the Vikings and the Raiders are the Front Runners .. :popcorn:
The interesting thing about this (and a good thing, IMO) is that it shows that the front office is not confident with either Ponder or Cassel, as well they shouldn't be. Despite the public "he's our QB", just talking to Freeman seriously shows that they are aware that this is a significant area of need, and pretty much a vote of non-confidence in both.I know they'll play it off as "hey, it's important to do our due diligence" if they don't get him, but to me, this is a really good sign that the Vikes are looking for fix this situation when they can.
:goodposting:
I agree that Freeman is at least worth a look. I am not sure if the Vikings will take a chance on him because of the character issues. IF he has drug problems they likely won't. I wonder what happens to MBT if they did add him as well? I can't see the Vikings carrying 4 QB. Maybe they could cut Webb instead? I really do not see that happening. Webb is a team favorite.

Still I agree with you guys that it is a good sign that they are at least kicking the tires on Freeman.

PONDER still needs a lot of coaching to be worthwhile.
Fixed. At least Freeman can say he has throw 4000 yards in a season and 300 in a game.

 
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Seems you can forget my previous post.. FOX reported Freeman spoke to both Fraiser and Speilman this past week. :shock:

He stated he will make his decsion tonight, but right now the Vikings and the Raiders are the Front Runners .. :popcorn:
The interesting thing about this (and a good thing, IMO) is that it shows that the front office is not confident with either Ponder or Cassel, as well they shouldn't be. Despite the public "he's our QB", just talking to Freeman seriously shows that they are aware that this is a significant area of need, and pretty much a vote of non-confidence in both.I know they'll play it off as "hey, it's important to do our due diligence" if they don't get him, but to me, this is a really good sign that the Vikes are looking for fix this situation when they can.
:goodposting:
I agree that Freeman is at least worth a look. I am not sure if the Vikings will take a chance on him because of the character issues. IF he has drug problems they likely won't. I wonder what happens to MBT if they did add him as well? I can't see the Vikings carrying 4 QB. Maybe they could cut Webb instead? I really do not see that happening. Webb is a team favorite.

Still I agree with you guys that it is a good sign that they are at least kicking the tires on Freeman.

PONDER AND FREEMAN still needs a lot of coaching to be worthwhile.
Fixed.At least Freeman can say he has throw 4000 yards in a season and 300 in a game.
Fixed better. :help:

 
Biabreakable said:
Seems you can forget my previous post.. FOX reported Freeman spoke to both Fraiser and Speilman this past week. :shock:

He stated he will make his decsion tonight, but right now the Vikings and the Raiders are the Front Runners .. :popcorn:
The interesting thing about this (and a good thing, IMO) is that it shows that the front office is not confident with either Ponder or Cassel, as well they shouldn't be. Despite the public "he's our QB", just talking to Freeman seriously shows that they are aware that this is a significant area of need, and pretty much a vote of non-confidence in both.

I know they'll play it off as "hey, it's important to do our due diligence" if they don't get him, but to me, this is a really good sign that the Vikes are looking for fix this situation when they can.
:goodposting:
I agree that Freeman is at least worth a look. I am not sure if the Vikings will take a chance on him because of the character issues. IF he has drug problems they likely won't. I wonder what happens to MBT if they did add him as well? I can't see the Vikings carrying 4 QB. Maybe they could cut Webb instead? I really do not see that happening. Webb is a team favorite.

Still I agree with you guys that it is a good sign that they are at least kicking the tires on Freeman.

Freeman still needs a lot of coaching to be worthwhile.
From what I've read about Freeman, he has 1 strike, it was leaked that he was even in the program as it is supposed to be confidential. As for that strike itself, this is what he had to say:

In a statement to FOX Sports on Monday night, Tampa Bay Buccaneers quarterback Josh Freeman addressed reports he's in the NFL's substance-abuse program by saying he has a temporary use exemption to take Adderall for ADHD and entered the program voluntarily.
 
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Bit more about the reason Freeman was in the program, and how it affected his relationship with Schiano

Freeman says he entered the substance-abuse program more than 1-1/2 years ago, when he took Ritalin rather than his prescribed Adderall. Freeman said he offered to enter the program and be subject to repeat testing to show he made a "one-time mistake."

An independent source with knowledge of Freeman's situation confirmed to FOX Sports Freeman's account of how he entered the program and that he has passed all tests.

The source also said current head coach Greg Schiano was suspicious as to why Freeman was being tested regularly at the start of Schiano's time with the Buccaneers. The source said Freeman didn't initially divulge the full details of his situation to Schiano but assured him it wasn't related to a positive test.

"I agreed to allow such testing to be done at my workplace (team facility) because I spend all of my time there and I have nothing whatsoever to hide or be embarrassed about," Freeman said in his statement. "Unfortunately, it appears that some people who may have noticed the testing at my workplace have made hurtful and incorrect assumptions and chosen to disseminate inaccurate and very disturbing information. It is a shame that when times have gotten tough, people have chosen to attack the character of others, rather than supporting each other."
 
Josh Freeman will sign a one-year deal with the Vikings

One of the interesting quotes to me was:

Vikings wanted him for a 2 year deal but josh wanted 1. It's on Ponder to play his butt off to keep his job.
actually LOVE that it is a one year contract.. With any luck he gets the starting job, plays his Butt off to get a big deal next year from someone..

Not that I expect this to be the thing that takes us to the playoffs as our defense still sucks.. But it at least gives us hope that they realized Ponder is NOT the answer and are ready to move on.

No way they carry 4 QB's.. So, I could see them coming out today with a "Ponder's injury is worse then we thought" cover and put him on the 6 week IR.. Cassel then starts this week against the Panthers and, depending on how he plays, possibly Freeman taking over for the game at the Giants the next week.

:popcorn:

 
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Interesting stuff on the drug issues Maelstrom. Minnesota is the treatment capital of the US. So well equipped to deal with those issues if they are issues. As well as well equipped for finding out before they offered the 2 year deal.

Freeman taking the 1 year deal may be because he doesn't want to be here playing outdoors in the snow next season. Might be hard to sign players because of that. So all these 1 year deals could be a problem as well.

Bills FS Byrd is on the trading block. Maybe the Vikings can trade them a QB for him? Byrd and Smith would make a very good ball hawking safety duo if Byrd is healthy enough (I think he is shamming there as part of his hold out, but haven't looked deeper into it).

Who was dropped to add Freeman? :confused:

The Vikings could almost run a 5 QB offense now.

 
So weird. I like the aggressiveness and Ponder isn't the answer, but this just seems like not the answer. Let Cassell play out the year, draft QB next year. Unless they really think Freeman can be rehabbed (on the field).

 
WWWWEEEEEEEEE!!!!

Don't really have any idea how well Freeman will play out and don't have any confidence in Musgrave's QB coaching abiliity, but it finally shows that the Vikings are ready to move on from Ponder! This is a Monday morning high usually only felt after AP runs for 200 in a win vs. the pack.

 
Interesting stuff on the drug issues Maelstrom. Minnesota is the treatment capital of the US. So well equipped to deal with those issues if they are issues. As well as well equipped for finding out before they offered the 2 year deal.

Freeman taking the 1 year deal may be because he doesn't want to be here playing outdoors in the snow next season. Might be hard to sign players because of that. So all these 1 year deals could be a problem as well.

Bills FS Byrd is on the trading block. Maybe the Vikings can trade them a QB for him? Byrd and Smith would make a very good ball hawking safety duo if Byrd is healthy enough (I think he is shamming there as part of his hold out, but haven't looked deeper into it).

Who was dropped to add Freeman? :confused:

The Vikings could almost run a 5 QB offense now.
After the Freeman deal the Vikings are against the cap. Don't think they could afford him now. Buffalo is starting Thad Lewis at QB against Cincinnati.

 
I don't know if Freeman is the answer, or what they heck they are going to do go forward at QB, but I love the move. It tells me the Vikes are not going to ##### foot around Ponder's fragile psyche, and it is beyond due time for that.

 
Tampa beat writer was just on KFAN and had great things to say about Freeman. Thinks the Bucs screwed this up and the Vikes got a steal. :popcorn:

 
It is hard to feel good about this knowing that QB was only one of a long list of problems were having in their losses. Oline and defense playing soft. Things won't really change until they replace Frazier and the rest of the lame duck coaching staff.

 
I haven't seen a lot of footage on Freeman but the ability certainly seems to be there. And watching some of his interviews on Youtube, he comes off as pretty mature and level-headed. I'd be more excited about this had they signed him to a multi-year deal. I have my doubts that he can come in mid-season and learn quick enough to be successful.

This at least makes the Vikings interesting again. Their games were starting to bore me. I had been finding myself watching other games more than Vikings games. Which I've never done before.

 
It is hard to feel good about this knowing that QB was only one of a long list of problems were having in their losses. Oline and defense playing soft. Things won't really change until they replace Frazier and the rest of the lame duck coaching staff.
I think Ponder was making their OL look worse than it actually is. It has to be hard to protect a QB who never stays in the pocket. And with no threat of a deep ball defenses could stack the box against AD. Cassel stayed in the pocket and got the ball out on time. Their OL looked a lot better because of it.

Agree with you on defense and coaching though.

 
sports_fan said:
Donnybrook said:
It is hard to feel good about this knowing that QB was only one of a long list of problems were having in their losses. Oline and defense playing soft. Things won't really change until they replace Frazier and the rest of the lame duck coaching staff.
I think Ponder was making their OL look worse than it actually is. It has to be hard to protect a QB who never stays in the pocket. And with no threat of a deep ball defenses could stack the box against AD. Cassel stayed in the pocket and got the ball out on time. Their OL looked a lot better because of it.

Agree with you on defense and coaching though.
I'm ready for this coaching staff to be replaced as well and have no faith in either Fraizer or Musgrave...but it's very possible that the offensive playbook has been limited to what Ponder could throw. The play-calling was very different with Cassel last week and it was fun seeing the WRs actually be involved and the line having both a good pass and run blocking game. Add a QB that can throw a darn good deep ball and we might just get to see what AP is capable of with some room to run.

The more I read from local Tampa Bay sources the more I'm allowing myself to believe that the coaching staff there has created such a toxic environment that no one could succeed....especially your on-field coach.

 
sports_fan said:
Donnybrook said:
It is hard to feel good about this knowing that QB was only one of a long list of problems were having in their losses. Oline and defense playing soft. Things won't really change until they replace Frazier and the rest of the lame duck coaching staff.
I think Ponder was making their OL look worse than it actually is. It has to be hard to protect a QB who never stays in the pocket. And with no threat of a deep ball defenses could stack the box against AD. Cassel stayed in the pocket and got the ball out on time. Their OL looked a lot better because of it.Agree with you on defense and coaching though.
Cassel had time because he faced a weak Steelers pass rush. Despite his limited arm, Ponder was pretty good at escaping the rush. Despite all the talent on this team, Frazier makes no adjustments and their opponents take advantage of his vanilla schemes. It not surprising that teams have come from behind to beat or just about beat the Vikings 4 weeks in a row.
 
sports_fan said:
Donnybrook said:
It is hard to feel good about this knowing that QB was only one of a long list of problems were having in their losses. Oline and defense playing soft. Things won't really change until they replace Frazier and the rest of the lame duck coaching staff.
I think Ponder was making their OL look worse than it actually is. It has to be hard to protect a QB who never stays in the pocket. And with no threat of a deep ball defenses could stack the box against AD. Cassel stayed in the pocket and got the ball out on time. Their OL looked a lot better because of it.Agree with you on defense and coaching though.
Cassel had time because he faced a weak Steelers pass rush. Despite his limited arm, Ponder was pretty good at escaping the rush. Despite all the talent on this team, Frazier makes no adjustments and their opponents take advantage of his vanilla schemes. It not surprising that teams have come from behind to beat or just about beat the Vikings 4 weeks in a row.
:goodposting: He has the mentality of "playing not to lose" instead of "playing to win".. he seems to think he has the defense to win games.. Hint.. he doesn't.

 
BigJim® said:
I don't know if Freeman is the answer, or what they heck they are going to do go forward at QB, but I love the move. It tells me the Vikes are not going to ##### foot around Ponder's fragile psyche, and it is beyond due time for that.
Looks like I spoke too quickly. Just read the StarTribune recount of Frazier's presser and he was quoted as saying he still believes Ponder has a bright future with the Vikes, and quoted Ponder saying he believes Frazier is a man of faith and he will take him at his word. It's confounding if the team thinks they can keep credibility with any of their 3 QBs if they stay on the course of coddling Ponder. It's not illegal to say we're fostering competition and will go with the QB who we believe gives us the best chance to win, end of story.

 
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If they aren't ready to dump Ponder then Frazier has to say that. Just assume they are lying to us at this point while trying to save face.

 
BigJim® said:
I don't know if Freeman is the answer, or what they heck they are going to do go forward at QB, but I love the move. It tells me the Vikes are not going to ##### foot around Ponder's fragile psyche, and it is beyond due time for that.
Looks like I spoke to quickly. Just read the StarTribune recount of Frazier's presser and he was quoted as saying he still believes Ponder has a bright future with the Vikes, and quoted Ponder saying he believes Frazier is a man of faith and he will take him at his word. It's confounding if the team thinks they can keep credibility with any of their 3 QBs if they stay on the course of coddling Ponder. It's not illegal to say we're fostering competition and will go with the QB who we believe gives us the best chance to win, end of story.
that's who Frasier is.. he is too much of a players coach and is afraid of ruffling feathers.. At a point players must just :rolleyes: at his comments..

If they haven't already, players will stop respecting him no matter how nice he is..

At this point I don't think anyone on that team believes Freeman was brought in to just provide competition..

 
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Wasn't there talk the other day about the Vikings preparing to sign Frazier to a multi-year contract?

 
IMO, this could blow up in their face either way. Players could be just as bent by a coach who calls people out and threatens their job in public too. Again, unless they choose to just dump Ponder they have to allow him to save face. If they publicly kick him to the curb he could never play here again. They must not be ready for that.

 
sports_fan said:
Donnybrook said:
It is hard to feel good about this knowing that QB was only one of a long list of problems were having in their losses. Oline and defense playing soft. Things won't really change until they replace Frazier and the rest of the lame duck coaching staff.
I think Ponder was making their OL look worse than it actually is. It has to be hard to protect a QB who never stays in the pocket. And with no threat of a deep ball defenses could stack the box against AD. Cassel stayed in the pocket and got the ball out on time. Their OL looked a lot better because of it.Agree with you on defense and coaching though.
Cassel had time because he faced a weak Steelers pass rush. Despite his limited arm, Ponder was pretty good at escaping the rush. Despite all the talent on this team, Frazier makes no adjustments and their opponents take advantage of his vanilla schemes. It not surprising that teams have come from behind to beat or just about beat the Vikings 4 weeks in a row.
I cannot say I entirely agree that the Steelers have a weak pass rush. They have 15 sacks over 4 games which is close to 4 sacks/game. The Vikings gave up only one of those 15 sacks, so they were getting over 4 sacks/game prior to playing the Vikings. They are 9th in passing yards allowed.

It is their run defense which is turrible.

 
IMO, this could blow up in their face either way. Players could be just as bent by a coach who calls people out and threatens their job in public too. Again, unless they choose to just dump Ponder they have to allow him to save face. If they publicly kick him to the curb he could never play here again. They must not be ready for that.
I just don't see the downside to a straight-shooter approach. A move like this speaks for itself and continued coddling of Ponder looks goofy... particularly if one desired outcome is retaining Freeman beyoind 2013. What's wrong with "We're going to play the guy we think gives us the best chance to win." Not supportive enough of Ponder? Could induce a tantrum? Who cares. Ponder being informed NFL QBs have to earn a starting job is long overdue.

 

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