***OFFICIAL*** 2013 MINNESOTA VIKINGS SEASON THREAD (1 Viewer)

[Donnybrook]

It is hard to feel good about this knowing that QB was only one of a long list of problems were having in their losses. Oline and defense playing soft. Things won't really change until they replace Frazier and the rest of the lame duck coaching staff.

I think Ponder was making their OL look worse than it actually is. It has to be hard to protect a QB who never stays in the pocket. And with no threat of a deep ball defenses could stack the box against AD. Cassel stayed in the pocket and got the ball out on time. Their OL looked a lot better because of it.Agree with you on defense and coaching though.

Cassel had time because he faced a weak Steelers pass rush. Despite his limited arm, Ponder was pretty good at escaping the rush. Despite all the talent on this team, Frazier makes no adjustments and their opponents take advantage of his vanilla schemes. It not surprising that teams have come from behind to beat or just about beat the Vikings 4 weeks in a row.

I cannot say I entirely agree that the Steelers have a weak pass rush. They have 15 sacks over 4 games which is close to 4 sacks/game. The Vikings gave up only one of those 15 sacks, so they were getting over 4 sacks/game prior to playing the Vikings. They are 9th in passing yards allowed.

It is their run defense which is turrible.

Bia where are you getting these stats from? It looks to me like Pittsburgh has 4 sacks total. Last in the NFL. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=SACKS&season=2013&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=false&Submit=Go

 

[Funkley]

What's said to Ponder has nothing to do with what is said to the media. People seem to want Frazier to act tough over this. There is no upside to that and it certainly does the player no good. Ponder is not good at his job right now but that's no reason for the organization to publicly dis him. There is no point to that.

 

[snogger]

What's said to Ponder has nothing to do with what is said to the media. People seem to want Frazier to act tough over this. There is no upside to that and it certainly does the player no good. Ponder is not good at his job right now but that's no reason for the organization to publicly dis him. There is no point to that.

I don't think were asking Frasier to dis him.. just time to speak the truth. As others said saying "we will start the QB that we think gives us the best chance to win" isn't a dis.. it is saying play better or here is a clipboard.It's the continuous " Ponders our QB" thats getting old.

As a fan I hate to say this but....... I am almost hoping this all blows up in their face, we go 2-14... Frazier and the entire coaching staff and Speilman are given their walking papers and we move on.. :ducks incoming shoes:

 

[Funkley]

I don't disagree. I'm just saying that a guy who has consistently been a players coach isn't going stop now. Right or wrong. And there's always the chance that he's telling the truth about Ponder.

 

[jestertj]

What's said to Ponder has nothing to do with what is said to the media. People seem to want Frazier to act tough over this. There is no upside to that and it certainly does the player no good. Ponder is not good at his job right now but that's no reason for the organization to publicly dis him. There is no point to that.

I don't think were asking Frasier to dis him.. just time to speak the truth. As others said saying "we will start the QB that we think gives us the best chance to win" isn't a dis.. it is saying play better or here is a clipboard.It's the continuous " Ponders our QB" thats getting old.

As a fan I hate to say this but....... I am almost hoping this all blows up in their face, we go 2-14... Frazier and the entire coaching staff and Speilman are given their walking papers and we move on.. :ducks incoming shoes:

Why in the world do you guys want Spielman out? Outside of Ponder he's done pretty well with the higher round picks. You absolutley cannot whiff on those picks without becomeing what Jacksonville is now. Yes, Chris Cook and Josh Robinson were drafted under his watch but he's had some pretty good hits too (Harrison Smith). Nobody hits on all of their picks.

 

[Maelstrom]

I just don't see the downside to a straight-shooter approach. A move like this speaks for itself and continued coddling of Ponder looks goofy... particularly if one desired outcome is retaining Freeman beyoind 2013. What's wrong with "We're going to play the guy we think gives us the best chance to win." Not supportive enough of Ponder? Could induce a tantrum? Who cares. Ponder being informed NFL QBs have to earn a starting job is long overdue.

They don't publicly say anything about a competition or that would imply Ponder has lost the starting job IF they are trying to garner trade interest and don't want other teams to think they can either wait for him to be dropped or don't have to make a serious offer. My guess (or hope?) is that this is a smokescreen while they work out a deal. Maybe having legitimate competition is in itself enough to motivate Ponder, but I honestly don't think motivation is the problem.

Why in the world do you guys want Spielman out? Outside of Ponder he's done pretty well with the higher round picks. You absolutley cannot whiff on those picks without becomeing what Jacksonville is now. Yes, Chris Cook and Josh Robinson were drafted under his watch but he's had some pretty good hits too (Harrison Smith). Nobody hits on all of their picks.

Spielman is one of the definite bright spots in the front office.

 

[BigJim®]

I just don't see the downside to a straight-shooter approach. A move like this speaks for itself and continued coddling of Ponder looks goofy... particularly if one desired outcome is retaining Freeman beyoind 2013. What's wrong with "We're going to play the guy we think gives us the best chance to win." Not supportive enough of Ponder? Could induce a tantrum? Who cares. Ponder being informed NFL QBs have to earn a starting job is long overdue.

They don't publicly say anything about a competition or that would imply Ponder has lost the starting job IF they are trying to garner trade interest and don't want other teams to think they can either wait for him to be dropped or don't have to make a serious offer. My guess (or hope?) is that this is a smokescreen while they work out a deal. Maybe having legitimate competition is in itself enough to motivate Ponder, but I honestly don't think motivation is the problem.

Agree to disagree on rationale. A statement that Ponder is competing is plausible; claiming he has a bright future one day after signing Freeman is laughable. Other front offices deserve more credit. Oh well, regardless I'm excited to have a possible QB solution in 2013. Even if Freeman doesn't show much, it's a great bargain to kick the tires on a younger FA for half a season. The upside seems huge and chances are they start Freeman either prime time game (@Giants or home vs. the Packers).

 

[Biabreakable]

It is hard to feel good about this knowing that QB was only one of a long list of problems were having in their losses. Oline and defense playing soft. Things won't really change until they replace Frazier and the rest of the lame duck coaching staff.

I think Ponder was making their OL look worse than it actually is. It has to be hard to protect a QB who never stays in the pocket. And with no threat of a deep ball defenses could stack the box against AD. Cassel stayed in the pocket and got the ball out on time. Their OL looked a lot better because of it.Agree with you on defense and coaching though.

Cassel had time because he faced a weak Steelers pass rush. Despite his limited arm, Ponder was pretty good at escaping the rush. Despite all the talent on this team, Frazier makes no adjustments and their opponents take advantage of his vanilla schemes. It not surprising that teams have come from behind to beat or just about beat the Vikings 4 weeks in a row.

I cannot say I entirely agree that the Steelers have a weak pass rush. They have 15 sacks over 4 games which is close to 4 sacks/game. The Vikings gave up only one of those 15 sacks, so they were getting over 4 sacks/game prior to playing the Vikings. They are 9th in passing yards allowed.

It is their run defense which is turrible.

Bia where are you getting these stats from? It looks to me like Pittsburgh has 4 sacks total. Last in the NFL. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=SACKS&season=2013&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=false&Submit=Go

From here- http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/defense/sort/sacks/position/defense

I would assume the NFL.com stats are official.

My bad that is sacks against. Never mind. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2013.htm

 

[snogger]

What's said to Ponder has nothing to do with what is said to the media. People seem to want Frazier to act tough over this. There is no upside to that and it certainly does the player no good. Ponder is not good at his job right now but that's no reason for the organization to publicly dis him. There is no point to that.

I don't think were asking Frasier to dis him.. just time to speak the truth. As others said saying "we will start the QB that we think gives us the best chance to win" isn't a dis.. it is saying play better or here is a clipboard.It's the continuous " Ponders our QB" thats getting old.

As a fan I hate to say this but....... I am almost hoping this all blows up in their face, we go 2-14... Frazier and the entire coaching staff and Speilman are given their walking papers and we move on.. :ducks incoming shoes:

Why in the world do you guys want Spielman out? Outside of Ponder he's done pretty well with the higher round picks. You absolutley cannot whiff on those picks without becomeing what Jacksonville is now. Yes, Chris Cook and Josh Robinson were drafted under his watch but he's had some pretty good hits too (Harrison Smith). Nobody hits on all of their picks.

I can see some of your viewpoints ...

My dislike of Speilman is stuck on the Ponder move.. Every other GM out there was at him for taking what most perceived to be a 3rd rounder as the 11th overall.

Then it continued with the reports here that Frasier's hands were tied as Speilman was pulling the strings on Ponder starting.

With this latest move Speilman goes from my list to

 

[jason12vb]

May or may not be relevant in anyone else's mind, but it's a telling one for me...

This Sunday I will be going to to my first Vikings game since Ponder was drafted. Was not against the Ponder drafting, but I just haven't been willing to risk wasting a couple hundred bucks and most of a Sunday on an offense that could very well not throw for 100 yards. Seeing what this roster is capable of with even a Matt Cassel behind center has me excited again and not just watching because I love football Sunday's on the couch.

 

[snogger]

EDEN PRAIRIE, Minn. - The Minnesota Vikings have cut quarterback McLeod Bethel-Thompson to make room for newly-acquired quarterback Josh Freeman.

Freeman was signed to a one-year deal with Minnesota after being cut by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers last week.

Bethel-Thompson has played the last two seasons with the Vikings as the No. 3 quarterback on the depth chart.

Bethel-Thompson has been put on waivers. If he is not claimed by another team, the Vikings would be able to add him to the team's practice squad.

Figured they weren't going to carry 4 Qb.. hopefully he clears waivers.

 

[Heatman]

I was not a Spielman fan when he came to Minnesota. But since he got here I've liked pretty mush everything he's done save for the Ponder move. The Vikings felt like they needed a QB no matter what that year and were hoping for Gabbert and when he went they panicked a bit.

The coaching staff needs to go but Spielman has not been the problem.

 

[Donnybrook]

Figured they weren't going to carry 4 Qb.. hopefully he clears waivers.

I hope another team picks him up. MBT played well in pre-season and I would like to see what he can do in a real game.

 

[Maelstrom]

I just don't see the downside to a straight-shooter approach. A move like this speaks for itself and continued coddling of Ponder looks goofy... particularly if one desired outcome is retaining Freeman beyoind 2013. What's wrong with "We're going to play the guy we think gives us the best chance to win." Not supportive enough of Ponder? Could induce a tantrum? Who cares. Ponder being informed NFL QBs have to earn a starting job is long overdue.

They don't publicly say anything about a competition or that would imply Ponder has lost the starting job IF they are trying to garner trade interest and don't want other teams to think they can either wait for him to be dropped or don't have to make a serious offer. My guess (or hope?) is that this is a smokescreen while they work out a deal. Maybe having legitimate competition is in itself enough to motivate Ponder, but I honestly don't think motivation is the problem.

Agree to disagree on rationale. A statement that Ponder is competing is plausible; claiming he has a bright future one day after signing Freeman is laughable. Other front offices deserve more credit. Oh well, regardless I'm excited to have a possible QB solution in 2013. Even if Freeman doesn't show much, it's a great bargain to kick the tires on a younger FA for half a season. The upside seems huge and chances are they start Freeman either prime time game (@Giants or home vs. the Packers).

Have you actually listened to Frazier's press conference? Or just relying on what's been reported? Cause the reporting definitely seems to focus a bit much on the "bright future" comment IMO compared to the rest of what he said. Frazier is very careful with his words, and while he did say Ponder's future was bright, he also said that when Freeman has had a chance to get settled in, he'd have a chance to start and they will do what is best for the Vikings. He said all 3 QBs will be competing for a starting job, and the best QB for the team would start. Basically, he said what you want him to, just not the way you want him to say it.

 

[sports_fan]

Figured they weren't going to carry 4 Qb.. hopefully he clears waivers.

I hope another team picks him up. MBT played well in pre-season and I would like to see what he can do in a real game.

Claimed by 49ers

https://twitter.com/mattbarrows/status/388056573227970560

 

[jestertj]

No love in here for the Robison signing? $3.25 per doesn't sound terrible IMO.

 

[Donnybrook]

Figured they weren't going to carry 4 Qb.. hopefully he clears waivers.

I hope another team picks him up. MBT played well in pre-season and I would like to see what he can do in a real game.

Claimed by 49ers

https://twitter.com/mattbarrows/status/388056573227970560

I am disappointed that the Vikings spent two years coaching him just to let him go. I guess they not want give up on 10 yards production that John Carlson gives them every other week. On the other hand, I am glad MBT went to a smart organization like the 49ers. Harbaugh will re-train him and he will be good down the road. I guess this is why the Jags are so freakin hopeless. They should have claimed MBT and developed him with no risk instead wasting time with Gabbert.

 

[jason12vb]

No love in here for the Robison signing? $3.25 per doesn't sound terrible IMO.

" Terms weren't disclosed, but a source told ESPN.com's John Clayton that the deal is worth $28.3 million and Robison will receive a $5 million signing bonus and have a guarantee of $12.15 million.)"

I'm happy with it...at $3.25m/year guaranteed the vikings get a solid but unspectacular guy and can focus on the LE. If much of those escalators are 10+ sacks or pro-bowls then 7m/per is a steal, but if he can't reach 10 with Allen and KW on his line, I don't think he'll reach it next year if/when they are gone. I've been a fan of his motor since we drafted him and he gets a good amount of pressure on the QB even if it isn't reflected in the sack numbers...I'd just like to feel like you hear his name called a little more often and consistently when it comes to disrupting running plays.

 

[Funkley]

It's better than having to replace him but in general I've been disappointed with the d- line this year, him included. Overall lack of pressure and they've sucked against the run.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I just don't see the downside to a straight-shooter approach. A move like this speaks for itself and continued coddling of Ponder looks goofy... particularly if one desired outcome is retaining Freeman beyoind 2013. What's wrong with "We're going to play the guy we think gives us the best chance to win." Not supportive enough of Ponder? Could induce a tantrum? Who cares. Ponder being informed NFL QBs have to earn a starting job is long overdue.

They don't publicly say anything about a competition or that would imply Ponder has lost the starting job IF they are trying to garner trade interest and don't want other teams to think they can either wait for him to be dropped or don't have to make a serious offer. My guess (or hope?) is that this is a smokescreen while they work out a deal. Maybe having legitimate competition is in itself enough to motivate Ponder, but I honestly don't think motivation is the problem.

Agree to disagree on rationale. A statement that Ponder is competing is plausible; claiming he has a bright future one day after signing Freeman is laughable. Other front offices deserve more credit. Oh well, regardless I'm excited to have a possible QB solution in 2013. Even if Freeman doesn't show much, it's a great bargain to kick the tires on a younger FA for half a season. The upside seems huge and chances are they start Freeman either prime time game (@Giants or home vs. the Packers).

Have you actually listened to Frazier's press conference? Or just relying on what's been reported? Cause the reporting definitely seems to focus a bit much on the "bright future" comment IMO compared to the rest of what he said. Frazier is very careful with his words, and while he did say Ponder's future was bright, he also said that when Freeman has had a chance to get settled in, he'd have a chance to start and they will do what is best for the Vikings. He said all 3 QBs will be competing for a starting job, and the best QB for the team would start. Basically, he said what you want him to, just not the way you want him to say it.

So how do you Vikes fans see Jennings, Simpson, Patterson and Rudolph...

... (1) under Cassel, and (2) under Freeman?

No way to tell yet, my guess, but it seems to me they could all be currently undervalued as Cassel and Freeman will improve the passing game.

 

[Maelstrom]

It's better than having to replace him but in general I've been disappointed with the d- line this year, him included. Overall lack of pressure and they've sucked against the run.

I think the DLine has pretty much struggled against the run since Pat Williams retired. They really need that big NT clogging up the middle. They still can get pressure against the pass, but in obvious pass plays (i.e. the last minute drives) the opposing OLine and offense can pretty much negate the rush for a drive or two. I think Sharrif is still getting used to the position, and I'll bet KWilliams was still a little hurt when he came back after missing a game. I expect to see better production from the entire line moving forward. Allen has actually stepped it up the last game or two, if I remember correctly.

 

[BigJim®]

The irony is dripping from tonight's PFT headline:

Ponder: Vikings QB situation “disappointing and frustrating”

 

[snogger]

The irony is dripping from tonight's PFT headline:

Ponder: Vikings QB situation “disappointing and frustrating”

thought the same thing.. enjoy carrying the clipboard Mr. Ponder.. But please, don't turn it over to the other team TIA!.

 

[jason12vb]

I just don't see the downside to a straight-shooter approach. A move like this speaks for itself and continued coddling of Ponder looks goofy... particularly if one desired outcome is retaining Freeman beyoind 2013. What's wrong with "We're going to play the guy we think gives us the best chance to win." Not supportive enough of Ponder? Could induce a tantrum? Who cares. Ponder being informed NFL QBs have to earn a starting job is long overdue.

They don't publicly say anything about a competition or that would imply Ponder has lost the starting job IF they are trying to garner trade interest and don't want other teams to think they can either wait for him to be dropped or don't have to make a serious offer. My guess (or hope?) is that this is a smokescreen while they work out a deal. Maybe having legitimate competition is in itself enough to motivate Ponder, but I honestly don't think motivation is the problem.

Agree to disagree on rationale. A statement that Ponder is competing is plausible; claiming he has a bright future one day after signing Freeman is laughable. Other front offices deserve more credit. Oh well, regardless I'm excited to have a possible QB solution in 2013. Even if Freeman doesn't show much, it's a great bargain to kick the tires on a younger FA for half a season. The upside seems huge and chances are they start Freeman either prime time game (@Giants or home vs. the Packers).

Have you actually listened to Frazier's press conference? Or just relying on what's been reported? Cause the reporting definitely seems to focus a bit much on the "bright future" comment IMO compared to the rest of what he said. Frazier is very careful with his words, and while he did say Ponder's future was bright, he also said that when Freeman has had a chance to get settled in, he'd have a chance to start and they will do what is best for the Vikings. He said all 3 QBs will be competing for a starting job, and the best QB for the team would start. Basically, he said what you want him to, just not the way you want him to say it.

So how do you Vikes fans see Jennings, Simpson, Patterson and Rudolph...

... (1) under Cassel, and (2) under Freeman?

No way to tell yet, my guess, but it seems to me they could all be currently undervalued as Cassel and Freeman will improve the passing game.

Without a doubt, the best receiving group we've had since CC, Randy, and Reed in my opinion.

• I took all Vikings WRs off my draft board to start the year due to Ponder.
• Couldn't decide which WR to pick up before Cassel started figuring one of either Jennings or Simpson would go off...both did.
• Picked up Simpson the day the Freeman signing was announced. Simpson has been solid this year even with Ponder at the helm, he was great with Cassel. I suspect AP and Simpson will be the biggest benefactors of the Freeman signing once he takes over as he's proven he can and will throw deep.
• Jennings last game was awesome and I'm looking forward to seeing how he fares going forward, but 1/2 his output came from the one play that surprised everyone he was able to YAC it to the endzone. He looked fast on the play though and his veteran presence could be something Cassel and Freeman see as their meal ticket.
• Rudolph literally might be the most gifted pass catcher I've ever seen..the guys hands are huge and they just seem to engulf the ball...catching balls for him is as effortless as walking for me, but he's been non-existent this year and I don't see any way to predict whether it'll continue or not.
• Patterson...I don't have any faith in the coaching staff to get the ball no matter who the QB is. Frasier calling it an oversight that he only played a few snaps the first few weeks is a big red flag in my mind...good coaches don't make statements like that. I think one day we'll see that Musgrave and Frasier lost their jobs in part because they couldn't come up with a way to get Patterson the ball.

 

[jason12vb]

“It’s a waste of energy and thought to think about what could happen and what might not happen,” Ponder said. “I’m just trying to enjoy these moments because life in the NFL doesn’t last long. You’ve got to enjoy every minute of it, even when things aren’t going the best. And I’m going to see how it plays out. It’ll be interesting to see.”

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/227327141.html

I realize it's gotta be tough to have your company bring in someone they think can do your job better...but geez, sounds to me like he's questioning his own ability to play in this league.

Link also suggests that the Viking's QBs know what the plan is going forward - Cassel this week and Freeman when ready. (duhhh)

 

[Funkley]

Some guys are too nice to play football. Ponder seems like one of those guys. Amazing he made it this far.

 

[encaitar]

Ponder's a mental midget. Aaron Rodgers was frustrated and disappointed with falling so far in the draft. Instead of crying about it, he played with a chip on his shoulder and set out to prove that everyone was wrong for passing on him. That's the attitude a QB should have. The Vikings have coddled Ponder like a child for the last 3 years and it's no surprise he doesn't know how to react now that his place is truly challenged.

 

[BigJim®]

Ponder's a mental midget. Aaron Rodgers was frustrated and disappointed with falling so far in the draft. Instead of crying about it, he played with a chip on his shoulder and set out to prove that everyone was wrong for passing on him. That's the attitude a QB should have. The Vikings have coddled Ponder like a child for the last 3 years and it's no surprise he doesn't know how to react now that his place is truly challenged.

We'll probably be seeing many glimpses of why Ponder is not carved out to be an NFL QB. Quotes from others on the offense about Cassell taking authority in a huddle were telling. An NFL QB needs to have a competitive fire and be a little arrogant (IMHO)... not unlike leaders in any walk of life. Ponder seems fragile mentally both on and off the field, and guys aren't going to look at a guy like that as a confidence-inspiring leader. He's being expected to compete against a journeyman and a cast off who is his age, and he can't wave the white flag fast enough under that pressure.

 

[Biabreakable]

I just don't see the downside to a straight-shooter approach. A move like this speaks for itself and continued coddling of Ponder looks goofy... particularly if one desired outcome is retaining Freeman beyoind 2013. What's wrong with "We're going to play the guy we think gives us the best chance to win." Not supportive enough of Ponder? Could induce a tantrum? Who cares. Ponder being informed NFL QBs have to earn a starting job is long overdue.

They don't publicly say anything about a competition or that would imply Ponder has lost the starting job IF they are trying to garner trade interest and don't want other teams to think they can either wait for him to be dropped or don't have to make a serious offer. My guess (or hope?) is that this is a smokescreen while they work out a deal. Maybe having legitimate competition is in itself enough to motivate Ponder, but I honestly don't think motivation is the problem.

Agree to disagree on rationale. A statement that Ponder is competing is plausible; claiming he has a bright future one day after signing Freeman is laughable. Other front offices deserve more credit. Oh well, regardless I'm excited to have a possible QB solution in 2013. Even if Freeman doesn't show much, it's a great bargain to kick the tires on a younger FA for half a season. The upside seems huge and chances are they start Freeman either prime time game (@Giants or home vs. the Packers).

Have you actually listened to Frazier's press conference? Or just relying on what's been reported? Cause the reporting definitely seems to focus a bit much on the "bright future" comment IMO compared to the rest of what he said. Frazier is very careful with his words, and while he did say Ponder's future was bright, he also said that when Freeman has had a chance to get settled in, he'd have a chance to start and they will do what is best for the Vikings. He said all 3 QBs will be competing for a starting job, and the best QB for the team would start. Basically, he said what you want him to, just not the way you want him to say it.

So how do you Vikes fans see Jennings, Simpson, Patterson and Rudolph...

... (1) under Cassel, and (2) under Freeman?

No way to tell yet, my guess, but it seems to me they could all be currently undervalued as Cassel and Freeman will improve the passing game.

Without a doubt, the best receiving group we've had since CC, Randy, and Reed in my opinion.

• I took all Vikings WRs off my draft board to start the year due to Ponder.
• Couldn't decide which WR to pick up before Cassel started figuring one of either Jennings or Simpson would go off...both did.
• Picked up Simpson the day the Freeman signing was announced. Simpson has been solid this year even with Ponder at the helm, he was great with Cassel. I suspect AP and Simpson will be the biggest benefactors of the Freeman signing once he takes over as he's proven he can and will throw deep.
• Jennings last game was awesome and I'm looking forward to seeing how he fares going forward, but 1/2 his output came from the one play that surprised everyone he was able to YAC it to the endzone. He looked fast on the play though and his veteran presence could be something Cassel and Freeman see as their meal ticket.
• Rudolph literally might be the most gifted pass catcher I've ever seen..the guys hands are huge and they just seem to engulf the ball...catching balls for him is as effortless as walking for me, but he's been non-existent this year and I don't see any way to predict whether it'll continue or not.
• Patterson...I don't have any faith in the coaching staff to get the ball no matter who the QB is. Frasier calling it an oversight that he only played a few snaps the first few weeks is a big red flag in my mind...good coaches don't make statements like that. I think one day we'll see that Musgrave and Frasier lost their jobs in part because they couldn't come up with a way to get Patterson the ball.

As donny pointed out the Steelers have a really bad pass rush.

The receivers are much improved however. In particular Simpson who no longer has the back issue he had last season. He has to be motivated with the drafting of Patterson as well.

The fullbacks have been injured (Felton was suspended) so really the Vikings are not playing much 3 WR at all because they need the TE to fill in for missing Felton. I do not think Zach Line was one of our better 11 possible offensive players over Patterson either, but they had him playing anyways.

Freeman and Simpson could be a nice duo because Simpson in a great leaper.

Jennings amazed me with that run after the catch. I have seen him blown up on some blocks and it would be nice to see improvement there. Simpson is a good blocker at times as well. Something Patterson likely is still working on.

I have seen some things set up for Patterson out of the diamond formation that they might finally get around to using.

Peterson seems better as a receiver and I saw some very good blitz pick up from him also. So this is removing some of that COP receiving RB role that Harvin got a lot of. It would be nice to see them let Patterson get some of those looks also, but right now Peterson is likely better than Patterson in that role, as is Gerhardt possibly too. So not really expecting it from Patterson as a rookie, although I do hope we see some more action from him now coming out of the bye.

I am wondering if Webb can play well enough on run downs that the Vikings could possibly split Kalil out to tackle eligible. I bet he can catch too. I would rather see that then Carlson at this point. Should be better running the ball with Felton back now.

Ellison is still questionable to play against Carolina with his knee injury. I hope he will be back soon. Having him and Felton gives some nice blocking.

Where I see Cassel and Freeman helping the receivers is they can throw the out route. This will help Rudolph also. Rudolph has been needed too much as a blocker with the shaky situation at FB. So once Ellison is back that can free him up as a receiver more. Of course this hurts Patterson getting on the field also when the Vikings go 2 TE or 2TE/FB.

I think Burton was missed a bit in the blocking game. Joe Webb has gotten some snaps in replacement for his former role I think. And I have seen Jennings playing his role also. But Jennings not the blocker Burton was. I think he is missed on special teams also.

The Panthers have a great defense especially their front 7. So they are a team it seems like a good idea to loosen up the passing game against. If 3 WR can get the Panthers to take a LB off the field I think that is a good thing.

 

[encaitar]

Well, averaging 28 points a game coming in. Have 2 weeks to come up with a game plan. This is what comes of it? Nice coaching staff we have here.

 

[snogger]

I can live with bad seasons, crap happens.. But when you are embarassed at home like this it's time for a change at QB, and the entire Coaching staff... At this point just let the players play and coach themselves.. Can't be any worse then this embarassement.

 

[encaitar]

I can live with bad seasons, crap happens.. But when you are embarassed at home like this it's time for a change at QB, and the entire Coaching staff... At this point just let the players play and coach themselves.. Can't be any worse then this embarassement.

No doubt. It's even worse that it's coming out of a bye week. If you can't come up with a good game plan and have your team motivated at home after a bye week, you're just not a good coach.

 

[Beo]

Gutless performance! Two days after your star player's son is murdered and this is the effort you give to him? If I were him I would immediately ask for a trade because from the coaching staff down to the waterboys this was absolutely embarrassing!

 

[Maelstrom]

Gutless performance! Two days after your star player's son is murdered and this is the effort you give to him? If I were him I would immediately ask for a trade because from the coaching staff down to the waterboys this was absolutely embarrassing!

That's really insensitive. Maybe he had other things on his mind and couldn't really concentrate on the game? Just a really dumb comment.

 

[Beo]

Gutless performance! Two days after your star player's son is murdered and this is the effort you give to him? If I were him I would immediately ask for a trade because from the coaching staff down to the waterboys this was absolutely embarrassing!

That's really insensitive. Maybe he had other things on his mind and couldn't really concentrate on the game? Just a really dumb comment.

Im talking about his teammates. Reread

 

[Beo]

AP's whole team should have been so fired up to win for him after what he went through and still playing and they come out and lay a total turd!

 

[Maelstrom]

Gutless performance! Two days after your star player's son is murdered and this is the effort you give to him? If I were him I would immediately ask for a trade because from the coaching staff down to the waterboys this was absolutely embarrassing!

That's really insensitive. Maybe he had other things on his mind and couldn't really concentrate on the game? Just a really dumb comment.

Im talking about his teammates. Reread

Sorry, but still, thats really shouldn't have anything to do with the game. In fact, all the distractions probably affected everyone negatively. Sad situation, but not the kind of thing you try to turn into a rallying cry IMO.

 

[mr roboto]

Lets just get off the topic gents. Nothing good to come of it.

 

[Maelstrom]

So pretty sure that Freeman starts next week? They really can't go back to Ponder after him not getting the nod this week, right?

 

[Beo]

Gutless performance! Two days after your star player's son is murdered and this is the effort you give to him? If I were him I would immediately ask for a trade because from the coaching staff down to the waterboys this was absolutely embarrassing!

That's really insensitive. Maybe he had other things on his mind and couldn't really concentrate on the game? Just a really dumb comment.

Im talking about his teammates. Reread

Sorry, but still, thats really shouldn't have anything to do with the game. In fact, all the distractions probably affected everyone negatively. Sad situation, but not the kind of thing you try to turn into a rallying cry IMO.

So you think that when Brett Favre's teammates saw that he was going to play a day after his dad died that they didnt want to win so badly for him? Javon Walker even said after the game that there was no way he was going to let any ball hit the ground because he wanted to win for Favre so bad. Torrey Smith's teammates said the same thing when he played a day after his brother was killed. Joe Flacco specifically said that he couldnt believe he played and the team saw that and rallied around him to get the win. A bad Carolina team, 2 weeks to prepare, and the fact that they ALL should have been ready to run through a brick wall for AP and that is the performance we get? A joke!

 

[madviking10]

So pretty sure that Freeman starts next week? They really can't go back to Ponder after him not getting the nod this week, right?

No way unless both Freeman and Cassel get hit by the same truck.

 

[snogger]

So pretty sure that Freeman starts next week? They really can't go back to Ponder after him not getting the nod this week, right?

No way unless both Freeman and Cassel get hit by the same truck.

Already reported this morning it's a matter of when, not if, for Freeman to start.. After this outing Frasier has to realize even if Freeman only knows 3/4ths of the playbook it can't be any worse then Ponder or Cassel knowing 100%.

Might as well send him out there and let him play the rest of the season as the starter.. From all reports he realizes he made some mistakes in Tampa and is trying to rectify those as he is shwoing up early for all meetings and staying until 10pm studying the playbook. He wants that big contract for next year, so go ahead and let him play for it.

 

[Jobber]

Coaches need to go, no doubt about that. This isn't akin to the days of Tice where a Vikings fan would complain about a dumb play here and there. The OC, DC and HC all need to go. This is beyond bad.

 

[Donnybrook]

I am not going to watch them for awhile. I can't continue to be this pissed off every Sunday.

 

[sports_fan]

I am not going to watch them for awhile. I can't continue to be this pissed off every Sunday.

That's no fun. Be miserable with the rest of us.

 

[snogger]

I am not going to watch them for awhile. I can't continue to be this pissed off every Sunday.

I was thinking earlier this week that I haven't seen a good laugh out loud comedy movie for a while.. then I watched today's game..

haven't that hard for a while so Frazier.

 

[BigJim®]

So pretty sure that Freeman starts next week? They really can't go back to Ponder after him not getting the nod this week, right?

It wouldn't surprise me if they play Cassell due to the MNF game. It would be surprising to me if they play Ponder again. As crazy as it sounds, they can't risk him playing well on national TV. It would make sense to let a vet like Cassell play on prime time vs. a guy who'd been here learning less than 2 weeks. The big picture goal should be making sure they can evaluate Freeman when he's up to speed on the system

It's odd to me that they layed that big an egg. In the other losses, it was a play here, a badly defensed final drive there. Seemed like winning could could come from any improvement, in any unit. Just one less mistake. But a loss like this really opens a lot of questions that were probably unjustified just one week earlier.

Coaching. I've been Frazier's biggest proponent but it's his job to prepare a team. For a defensive minded couch, he can't allow a defense to be ranked 31 or 32 in nearly every defensive statistic. Alan Williams seems to have reasonable talent to work with and was getting turnovers, but the defense has underplayed their talent, and has had critical defensive drives filled with player confusion. I don't understand the reasons behind Musgraves shrinking the playbook to the the point it is the butt of a joke... what is the deal with that? Regardless, he needs to throw away those plays and use the better ones. OL play has to be OL coaching. They have a returning 5 who should be strenthening as a unit, no injuries, and 2 draftees.

Secondary. It was hopeful they targetted zone-skilled secondary players in recent drafts but something is wrong. It seems to me this has plagued the Vikings going on a decade and it just always seems to expose us to short passing death, particularly slants and accross the middle. Tampa 2 is wearing on me. We just never seem to have the talent at LB/CB to pull it off.

WR. The QB situation limits Patterson, but he needs to be on the field. It's hard watching Keenan Allen and Terrence Williams (who I loved) be impact players. JMHO, it's indefensible not having a 1st round WR ready to contribute at this point in a season. Even when used it seems to be bubble screens and quick out routes. Not only should he be on the field, but he should be stretching it by now with continued 8 man fronts.

 

[Donnybrook]

Tom Pelissero‏@TomPelissero

I'm sure we'll discuss why I'm coming to believe it's when, not if, #Vikings fire Leslie Frazier. My column ICYMI: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/10/13/minnesota-vikings-adrian-peterson-gary-kubiak/2977805/ …

 

[griff321]

Gutless performance! Two days after your star player's son is murdered and this is the effort you give to him? If I were him I would immediately ask for a trade because from the coaching staff down to the waterboys this was absolutely embarrassing!

That's really insensitive. Maybe he had other things on his mind and couldn't really concentrate on the game? Just a really dumb comment.

Im talking about his teammates. Reread

Sorry, but still, thats really shouldn't have anything to do with the game. In fact, all the distractions probably affected everyone negatively. Sad situation, but not the kind of thing you try to turn into a rallying cry IMO.

I've heard this storyline all week and it has to be the dumbest thing ever. Why does the media always have to attach a storyline to every single thing. I'm sure everyone was telling themselves, "oh we were going to get sacks, cover receivers, tackle, or catch the freeking ball! buuuut the tragic situation our friend and teammate is going through just was too heavy on my mind." The reverse is equally ridiculous.

How about take a look at the simplest narrative? They suck. Our front four is slightly better than average and everything behind that outside of Harrison Smith is garbage. They may actually play a little better if the offense could actually sustain a drive.

Then everyone is attacking coaching, but defending Spielman. Look at the talent Spielman put on the field. Frasier and Musgrave aren't exactly winning chess matches, but you'd be insane to actually think that we had much of a chance to do anything with a team devoid of talent or real competition. The entire front office and coaching staff needs to go along with a big number of players.

 

[Bobby Guano]

Gutless performance! Two days after your star player's son is murdered and this is the effort you give to him? If I were him I would immediately ask for a trade because from the coaching staff down to the waterboys this was absolutely embarrassing!

That's really insensitive. Maybe he had other things on his mind and couldn't really concentrate on the game? Just a really dumb comment.

Im talking about his teammates. Reread

Sorry, but still, thats really shouldn't have anything to do with the game. In fact, all the distractions probably affected everyone negatively. Sad situation, but not the kind of thing you try to turn into a rallying cry IMO.

I've heard this storyline all week and it has to be the dumbest thing ever. Why does the media always have to attach a storyline to every single thing. I'm sure everyone was telling themselves, "oh we were going to get sacks, cover receivers, tackle, or catch the freeking ball! buuuut the tragic situation our friend and teammate is going through just was too heavy on my mind." The reverse is equally ridiculous.

How about take a look at the simplest narrative? They suck. Our front four is slightly better than average and everything behind that outside of Harrison Smith is garbage. They may actually play a little better if the offense could actually sustain a drive.

Then everyone is attacking coaching, but defending Spielman. Look at the talent Spielman put on the field. Frasier and Musgrave aren't exactly winning chess matches, but you'd be insane to actually think that we had much of a chance to do anything with a team devoid of talent or real competition. The entire front office and coaching staff needs to go along with a big number of players.

There are tons of examples of talented teams being terrible and then suddenly turning it around once a decent coaching staff arrived.

49er's and the Chief's right off the top of my head.