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Official 2016 GOP thread: Is it really going to be Donald Trump?? (2 Viewers)

dparker713 said:
So the difference between the conservative movement and Democrats is race then?  Sounds about right.
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No. In theory, conservative principles benefit all people, regardless of race, religion, and so on.

GOP =/= conservatism. But, to the extent that the conservative movement has a voice, it's within the Republican Party. Thus, conservatism is threatened as the GOP loses power and/ or gets pushed to the left. In fact, this explains the genesis of the tea party in 2008-2009, as conservatives became fed up with the movement towards progressivism/ big government post-Reagan (e.g., W's compassionate "conservatism", Obama). 

As for the GOP vs. Democrat Party, they are both progressive/ big government parties, with the distinction being that they target/ serve different special interest groups. The Democrats target ethnic minorities, LGBT, feminists, unions, big tech, etc., whereas the GOP targets Christians, wealthy individuals, military, gun owners, big energy, and so on.

 
bolzano said:
No. In theory, conservative principles benefit all people, regardless of race, religion, and so on.

GOP =/= conservatism. But, to the extent that the conservative movement has a voice, it's within the Republican Party. Thus, conservatism is threatened as the GOP loses power and/ or gets pushed to the left. In fact, this explains the genesis of the tea party in 2008-2009, as conservatives became fed up with the movement towards progressivism/ big government post-Reagan (e.g., W's compassionate "conservatism", Obama). 

As for the GOP vs. Democrat Party, they are both progressive/ big government parties, with the distinction being that they target/ serve different special interest groups. The Democrats target ethnic minorities, LGBT, feminists, unions, big tech, etc., whereas the GOP targets Christians, wealthy individuals, military, gun owners, big energy, and so on.
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Bolded is the biggest problem. Neither big party can/ever will be for 'smaller govt' because they then can't extract maximum value from their positions of power. 

 
bolzano said:
No. In theory, conservative principles benefit all people, regardless of race, religion, and so on.

GOP =/= conservatism. But, to the extent that the conservative movement has a voice, it's within the Republican Party. Thus, conservatism is threatened as the GOP loses power and/ or gets pushed to the left. In fact, this explains the genesis of the tea party in 2008-2009, as conservatives became fed up with the movement towards progressivism/ big government post-Reagan (e.g., W's compassionate "conservatism", Obama). 

As for the GOP vs. Democrat Party, they are both progressive/ big government parties, with the distinction being that they target/ serve different special interest groups. The Democrats target ethnic minorities, LGBT, feminists, unions, big tech, etc., whereas the GOP targets Christians, wealthy individuals, military, gun owners, big energy, and so on.
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You're going to have to explain that.  Cause tax cuts and cutting government spending are hardly benefits to all people.  Nor is repealing/limiting the right to privacy.  Nor is refusing to compromise or threatening bankrupting the government for no reason.  And as much as I hate it, repealing the ACA is hardly a benefit to everyone.  Deporting illegals is potentially disasterous and rejecting investments in renewable energy is actually harmful.  

What I find most anomalous is that the rural poor receive so much more than they put into the system, yet this is the heart of the conservative movement attempting to reduce those handouts.  

 
Mr.Pack said:
Well, what were his big qualifications and accomplishments going in??
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Its been done many times before.

The right just keeps beating the community organizer and good speech guy drum.

Oh, and i didnt vite for Obama either time...just funny when you all go after him as unqualified given the Trump push now 

 
Hillary and Bernie both trump Trump in latest poll..

In the scenario that appears most likely to emerge from the primary contests, Clinton tops Trump 52% to 44% among registered voters. That result has tilted in Clinton's favor since the last CNN/ORC Poll on the match-up in January.

But when the former secretary of state faces off with either of the other two top Republicans, things are much tighter and roughly the same as they were in January.

Clinton trails against Rubio, with 50% choosing the Florida senator compared to 47% for Clinton, identical to the results in January. Against Cruz, Clinton holds 48% to his 49%, a slight tightening from a 3-point race in January to a 1-point match-up now.

Sanders -- who enjoys the most positive favorable rating of any presidential candidate in the field, according to the poll -- tops all three Republicans by wide margins: 57% to 40% against Cruz, 55% to 43% against Trump, and 53% to 45% against Rubio. Sanders fares better than Clinton in each match-up among men, younger voters and independents.
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At this rate( short of Hillary getting indicted) we are almost guaranteed a Hillary/Bill presidency for at least 4 years .. yea us!!!  :mellow:

 
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mr roboto said:
Because he doesn't have much going for him. The 'not Trump or Cruz' label isn't that inspiring. 

How pissed is Kasich at this point?  Substantive, experienced, not a #### head, 4th in this race. 
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Great point.  So easily the best candidate in the GOP field and he's getting lost in the circus that Trump has created. With Hillary (puke) being the Democratic candidate, this could have easily been a year I voted for a Republican (I haven't since 2000). And then they throw up a Donald Trump. :X

 
We are witnessing the death of the GOP or at least, it is complete alternation. I don't see how there will not be a party split.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
I'm going to post this in every GOP thread:
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This made me remember we had company over weekend and didn't get to see it in its entirety until last night. I showed this to the Mrs, thanks LJ. Trump supporters, encourage you to watch so you can keep an eye on what the other side is thinking. That said, you gotta laugh at yourself, I find Oliver funny and have no problem listening to him heckle all the way to the voting booth. Don't get angry, listen and enjoy and then critique like I did. A few gaffes but really funny overall, i think most will enjoy it. 

 
Ministry of Pain said:
This made me remember we had company over weekend and didn't get to see it in its entirety until last night. I showed this to the Mrs, thanks LJ. Trump supporters, encourage you to watch so you can keep an eye on what the other side is thinking. That said, you gotta laugh at yourself, I find Oliver funny and have no problem listening to him heckle all the way to the voting booth. Don't get angry, listen and enjoy and then critique like I did. A few gaffes but really funny overall, i think most will enjoy it. 
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that's your take-a-way from the segment?

 
Ministry of Pain said:
This made me remember we had company over weekend and didn't get to see it in its entirety until last night. I showed this to the Mrs, thanks LJ. Trump supporters, encourage you to watch so you can keep an eye on what the other side is thinking. That said, you gotta laugh at yourself, I find Oliver funny and have no problem listening to him heckle all the way to the voting booth. Don't get angry, listen and enjoy and then critique like I did. A few gaffes but really funny overall, i think most will enjoy it. 
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I feel so sorry for you

 
urbanhack said:
that's your take-a-way from the segment?
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It's HBO, it's TV, it's entertainment, am I missing something here big dog? 

The show is a 1 sided funny editorial. if you agree with Oliver you probably like the show even more. I'm saying even when I disagree with him I am laughing, I think that makes him a huge step up form the usual garbage. 

 
Keep in mind that when you're arguing with MOP you're arguing with a guy who just yesterday told me that even though one of his key issues is raising the minimum wage, he plans to vote for a candidate who opposes a raise rather than any of the candidates who agree with him because he wants to annoy strangers on the internet.  There is nothing to be gained in trying to have a logical argument here.

 
Ministry of Pain said:
It's HBO, it's TV, it's entertainment, am I missing something here big dog?

The show is a 1 sided funny editorial. if you agree with Oliver you probably like the show even more. I'm saying even when I disagree with him I am laughing, I think that makes him a huge step up form the usual garbage.
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what's the other side of some of the points Oliver made?

 
JerseyToughGuys said:
what's the other side of some of the points Oliver made?
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How about I say this in regards to the Obama segment which was pretty funny watching him every year say we're closing GITMO...see I don't think a lot of Liberals thought that was as funny as I did. And I was waiting for Oliver to at least say the GOP controlled House and Senate have not helped Obama out and in fact stonewall this idea...but he didn't. And if Oliver were a lot more GOP friendly then folks on the Left would hate him for doing the same thing to Obama that he does with others. 

Maybe folks think the Obama segment was fair. I laughed but I felt like there was a reason Obama can't close GITMO and actually it isn't the GOP. I think he knows the American people as a whole would have a conniption fit. I doubt more than 25-30% of this country wants that place closed and the prisoners transferred here. I think if the numbers were higher we would have seen it happen already.  

 
Chadstroma said:
We are witnessing the death of the GOP or at least, it is complete alternation. I don't see how there will not be a party split.
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You all keep saying this...whats the chances that people will still support the same incumbents across the board while still voting Trump?

Im guessing 80% of Trump voters...will still vote straight party ticket.  Thus, nothing really changes.

 
Ministry of Pain said:
How about I say this in regards to the Obama segment which was pretty funny watching him every year say we're closing GITMO...see I don't think a lot of Liberals thought that was as funny as I did. And I was waiting for Oliver to at least say the GOP controlled House and Senate have not helped Obama out and in fact stonewall this idea...but he didn't. And if Oliver were a lot more GOP friendly then folks on the Left would hate him for doing the same thing to Obama that he does with others. 

Maybe folks think the Obama segment was fair. I laughed but I felt like there was a reason Obama can't close GITMO and actually it isn't the GOP. I think he knows the American people as a whole would have a conniption fit. I doubt more than 25-30% of this country wants that place closed and the prisoners transferred here. I think if the numbers were higher we would have seen it happen already.  
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This guy knows what he's talking about.

 
Ministry of Pain said:
How about I say this in regards to the Obama segment which was pretty funny watching him every year say we're closing GITMO...see I don't think a lot of Liberals thought that was as funny as I did. And I was waiting for Oliver to at least say the GOP controlled House and Senate have not helped Obama out and in fact stonewall this idea...but he didn't. And if Oliver were a lot more GOP friendly then folks on the Left would hate him for doing the same thing to Obama that he does with others.

Maybe folks think the Obama segment was fair. I laughed but I felt like there was a reason Obama can't close GITMO and actually it isn't the GOP. I think he knows the American people as a whole would have a conniption fit. I doubt more than 25-30% of this country wants that place closed and the prisoners transferred here. I think if the numbers were higher we would have seen it happen already. 
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since it doesn't look like you actually responded, didn't bother to read.

 
TobiasFunke said:
This guy knows what he's talking about.
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You linked to your own post and it's nothing more than an MOP is the boogeyman and crazy routine, people can see past that now fyi...and your post which at the moment has ZERO likes, maybe that will change, we'll see.

TF, I mentioned a couple times that I respect your posts. I'm disappointed you feel that respect is not a 2 way street. I don't feel singled out because you do it to a lot of people, not just me. I'm a little surprised you doubled down on it though.

You're dealing with a 2-time reigning Champion at the moment, be careful. Boogey Oogey Boogey Oogey

 
sho nuff said:
You all keep saying this...whats the chances that people will still support the same incumbents across the board while still voting Trump?

Im guessing 80% of Trump voters...will still vote straight party ticket.  Thus, nothing really changes.
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No, I think it is a lock that someone prominent in the conservative/Republican circles will run. There will be a lot of people who will flock over (maybe not even to that person but more so away from Trump) in not just votes but organization and money as well. They likely will have the infrastructure to establish a new party in the process. Will they? I don't know. But there is no reconciliation right now in the GOP. There are the Trump supporters in their own little world and those who will not support or vote for Trump under any circumstances. This is unprecedented in terms of the number of Republicans from those in office down to the every day man who simply will not support Trump. This is not a Ross Perot making a third party challenge but it is a schism in the party itself. The only hope for the GOP is that right now it is basically Trump and his minions rather than a number of Republicans in office that are jumping to his side. Perhaps, after Trump loses the White House bid- the party can heal. But really? Do you think Trump is the kind of guy to just fade away after a loss? No, he will keep pushing and there is no indication that the Know Nothings supporting him have any inkling of coming to their senses. The GOP may survive but it will forever be altered, that is for sure.

 
Oh come on. You know you're going to hold your nose and vote for Trump. Trump will still get around 40% of the popular vote and Republicans will do just fine in the congressional races. Then the Republicans will argue over the reason why they lost the Presidency for the third time in a row. And instead of coming up with the obvious reason why ("Palin!", "Trump!"), they'll conclude that the reason they lost is because they weren't extreme enough. And so in 2020 they'll nominate someone who is even more crazy than Trump, and we'll go through this whole process all over again. We're at least 3 cycles away from Republicans giving up on this losing strategy.

We are witnessing the death of the GOP or at least, it is complete alternation. I don't see how there will not be a party split.
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Ministry of Pain said:
You linked to your own post and it's nothing more than an MOP is the boogeyman and crazy routine, people can see past that now fyi...and your post which at the moment has ZERO likes, maybe that will change, we'll see.

TF, I mentioned a couple times that I respect your posts. I'm disappointed you feel that respect is not a 2 way street. I don't feel singled out because you do it to a lot of people, not just me. I'm a little surprised you doubled down on it though.

You're dealing with a 2-time reigning Champion at the moment, be careful. Boogey Oogey Boogey Oogey
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I linked to my post because I said it's useless to debate you,  and in your very next post you responded to a request that you respond to specific facts and arguments made in a specific Oliver segment with completely irrelevant rambling about Gitmo and partisanship in the media. You proved me right.

Either you can engage in a reasonable discussion or you can't.  I don't think you can, and I said so. Feel free to prove me wrong by actually responding to JTG's request that you respond to the facts and arguments presented by Oliver instead of changing the subject.

And don't give me this bit about how you respect me. You go in on me all the time. You call me some variation of "out of touch elitist" five times a day even though you've never met me.  You even say you're gonna vote for a guy you don't seem to like and who disagrees with what you think is best for the country because you want to annoy me. I know it's shtick so it doesn't bother me at all, but you can't turn around and play buddy-buddy the next day.

 
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Joe Summer said:
Oh come on. You know you're going to hold your nose and vote for Trump. Trump will still get around 40% of the popular vote and Republicans will do just fine in the congressional races. Then the Republicans will argue over the reason why they lost the Presidency for the third time in a row. And instead of coming up with the obvious reason why ("Palin!", "Trump!"), they'll conclude that the reason they lost is because they weren't extreme enough. And so in 2020 they'll nominate someone who is even more crazy than Trump, and we'll go through this whole process all over again. We're at least 3 cycles away from Republicans giving up on this losing strategy.
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Yea, I don't think you know what you are talking about.

This is not a "hold your nose" and vote for him candidate. A significant number of Republicans are refusing to support and vote for him. Not just your average Joe Voter but Representatives and Senators are already coming out publically stating that they will not. I am one of those. I will not vote for him. Not a chance. I am not alone in that as a number of my conservative friends feel the same as I do- though there are various responses to as what they plan on doing. My liberal friends are shocked when they hear that I plan on voting for Hillary if Trump is the nominee. (I do reserve the right to change my mind to a third party or independent runner but being in Illinois it really is more symbolic than anything else in what I decide to do). This is not a "I don't really like Mitt but oh well" kind of thing. Not even close.  

 
TobiasFunke said:
I linked to my post because I said it's useless to debate you,  and in your very next post you responded to a request that you respond to specific facts and arguments made in a specific Oliver segment with completely irrelevant rambling about Gitmo and partisanship in the media. You proved me right.

Either you can engage in a reasonable discussion or you can't.  I don't think you can, and I said so. Feel free to prove me wrong by actually responding to JTG's request that you respond to the facts and arguments presented by Oliver instead of changing the subject.

And don't give me this bit about how you respect me. You go in on me all the time. You call me some variation of "out of touch elitist" five times a day even though you've never met me.  You even say you're gonna vote for a guy you don't seem to like and who disagrees with what you think is best for the country because you want to annoy me. I know it's shtick so it doesn't bother me at all, but you can't turn around and play buddy-buddy the next day.
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Your whole argument or position now in every go around is a complete tear down of the other person. You don't want to discuss the issues, you just want to bully people into thinking like you do and when they don't you hit the total discredit button and god forbid someone stand in your way.  This is obvious to many here. I'm not the first to post this. I'll say this again, very much enjoy TF but in the political threads you get quite toxic to those with opposing views, you must be a treat at work. 

You're on record that MOP can't post a lick...my FBG history Trumps that :)   I did call you an elitist and you're doing a fine job of proving that proclamation at the moment. What do you want from me? An apology? You sound like Donald Trump at the debates. 

And you do a good job of pushing people into the arms of Trump, that's true. How many days before I get buddy buddy status again? I thought all is fair in love and politics, no? And you don't get this much fun from others, that's why you doubled down. 

I'll stop calling you elitist to shut down discussion and say something more like "This sounds elitist" and maybe then we can work together to make the FFA great again! 

 
Joe Summer said:
Oh come on. You know you're going to hold your nose and vote for Trump. Trump will still get around 40% of the popular vote and Republicans will do just fine in the congressional races. Then the Republicans will argue over the reason why they lost the Presidency for the third time in a row. And instead of coming up with the obvious reason why ("Palin!", "Trump!"), they'll conclude that the reason they lost is because they weren't extreme enough. And so in 2020 they'll nominate someone who is even more crazy than Trump, and we'll go through this whole process all over again. We're at least 3 cycles away from Republicans giving up on this losing strategy.
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Ted Nugent in 2020! Get your bumper sticker early. 

 
Ministry of Pain said:
Your whole argument or position now in every go around is a complete tear down of the other person. You don't want to discuss the issues, you just want to bully people into thinking like you do and when they don't you hit the total discredit button and god forbid someone stand in your way.  This is obvious to many here. I'm not the first to post this. I'll say this again, very much enjoy TF but in the political threads you get quite toxic to those with opposing views, you must be a treat at work. 

You're on record that MOP can't post a lick...my FBG history Trumps that :)   I did call you an elitist and you're doing a fine job of proving that proclamation at the moment. What do you want from me? An apology? You sound like Donald Trump at the debates. 

And you do a good job of pushing people into the arms of Trump, that's true. How many days before I get buddy buddy status again? I thought all is fair in love and politics, no? And you don't get this much fun from others, that's why you doubled down. 

I'll stop calling you elitist to shut down discussion and say something more like "This sounds elitist" and maybe then we can work together to make the FFA great again! 
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No, I want you to answer JTG's question instead of changing the subject.  That seems like a reasonable request to me.

 
sho nuff said:
You all keep saying this...whats the chances that people will still support the same incumbents across the board while still voting Trump?

Im guessing 80% of Trump voters...will still vote straight party ticket.  Thus, nothing really changes.
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Actually.. part of my "fear" is that Trump wins the nomination and those republicans that don't like what he stands for decide to not show up to vote at all... So now Hillary or Bernie wins AND they get congress back also due to the lack of republicans showing up to vote.. :oldunsure:

 
TobiasFunke said:
No, I want you to answer JTG's question instead of changing the subject.  That seems like a reasonable request to me.
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-Trump is a back mole of America...not sure that's a real fact but it is funny. 

-The Rubio water bottle is again Trump showmanship and he is wooing crowds with it. Not any of you, but trump is wooing others to the tune of 15,000-20,000 at his KKK rallies. Oliver is even laughing, let's get real here. 

-He makes a big deal of the self funding. Trump is a business man so if he finds a way to pay himself back the loans, seems like he is smarter than the rest of us in this department. People need not like the Trump brand, I don't own anything made by Trump but I am very aware of the brand and it is everywhere. Especially right now. 

-The moment where he is mocking Trump about the little old ladies sending $7.59...that's actually a cute story for many Trump supporters and he is kind of saying he has grass roots movement which he kind of does right now. 

-I'm listening and skimming looking for the main topics but there is an awful lot of "tabloid tattletale" stuff in there. Great TV and fun to watch but a lot of it is how you frame the story. The best punches Oliver lands IMO are the Trump projects that did not get off the ground. 

***I did not know Trump lends his name only at times to these buildings. I was under the impression he builds them all. His name down here in Florida is all over the beaches and golf courses, didn't seem hard to think he was worth $10 Billion but now...

Oliver filled up 20 minutes with a lot of clips showing Trump being an idiot and then old clips or got'cha moments, just don't think it will impact most voters. Folks watching his show likely hate Trump to begin with. 

 
snogger said:
Actually.. part of my "fear" is that Trump wins the nomination and those republicans that don't like what he stands for decide to not show up to vote at all... So now Hillary or Bernie wins AND they get congress back also due to the lack of republicans showing up to vote.. :oldunsure:
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That's a stretch Snogger, I just cannot see what you see. The country is heavily leaning to GOP and I think Trump is going to bring some new faces to the party. 

The idea that Paul Ryan and the GOP lose control right now of the House and Senate...I don't think the country is swinging Liberal at the moment. Feels more like 2004 and a lot of fear mongering. 

 
I just don't understand how someone can watch that clip of Trump throwing the water bottle around and say to themselves "That guy looks like he should be the next President of the United States"

All politics aside, it's embarrassing to have such a clown this close to a Presidential nomination.

The guy has ZERO class. I realize it's all an act, but still. He's making a mockery of the greatest country on earth.

 
Ministry of Pain said:
snogger said:
Actually.. part of my "fear" is that Trump wins the nomination and those republicans that don't like what he stands for decide to not show up to vote at all... So now Hillary or Bernie wins AND they get congress back also due to the lack of republicans showing up to vote.. :oldunsure:
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That's a stretch Snogger, I just cannot see what you see. The country is heavily leaning to GOP and I think Trump is going to bring some new faces to the party. 

The idea that Paul Ryan and the GOP lose control right now of the House and Senate...I don't think the country is swinging Liberal at the moment. Feels more like 2004 and a lot of fear mongering. 
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:shrug: The GOP upper echelons are panicking and having meetings about what to do if Trump wins the nomination.. My feeling is this is one of those reasons.. Could be others, but I do believe they think Trump winning the nomination will cause issues for other Republicans in this election.

 
Skoo said:
I just don't understand how someone can watch that clip of Trump throwing the water bottle around and say to themselves "That guy looks like he should be the next President of the United States"

All politics aside, it's embarrassing to have such a clown this close to a Presidential nomination.

The guy has ZERO class. I realize it's all an act, but still. He's making a mockery of the greatest country on earth.
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The fact that it's all an act--that this whole thing is a charade...and that people are actually falling for it--should be concerning enough.

 
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Skoo said:
I just don't understand how someone can watch that clip of Trump throwing the water bottle around and say to themselves "That guy looks like he should be the next President of the United States"

All politics aside, it's embarrassing to have such a clown this close to a Presidential nomination.

The guy has ZERO class. I realize it's all an act, but still. He's making a mockery of the greatest country on earth.
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How many World Leaders would you put ahead of Trump if he is the POTUS? 

Think about it before answering because if you say all of Europe you aren't thinking clearly. 

For example, I would put the leader of France well ahead of Trump but I can tell you a majority (50.1%+) in this country are not fans of what the lady in Germany has done the last couple years and taking in tens of thousands of refugees and all the problems we are hearing in many of these Euro countries who have absorbed a lot of the refugees over the last many years while good ole Obama has been on watch no less...

How many countries in Africa would have a better leader than Donald Trump? Asia? How about South America? Is there a leader down there you would rather entrust the United States of America with over Donald Trump?

How serious are the anti-Trumps? I understand the hate and moral anxiety he drums up in folks...but in a few months that bad gas will leave and many will warm up to him. Worst case scenario we all panic and put Clinton in as a stop gap till we find something better, what is the problem? The country will not go to hell in a hand basket because of Trump or Clinton. The whole e-mail thing with Clinton needs to go away or else Trump and crew are gonna have a field day. Is there a criminal case or not? If not, wrap it up you Suns of Beaches!  

 
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