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*** Official 2019 Dolphins Thread *** That's a wrap...now what do we do with the #5 pick? (2 Viewers)

ChuckLiddell said:
Not much competition left if we want Rosen.  Maybe San Diego or Denver?
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Have to think unless the Cardinals are hoping to hold him into camp and hope for an injury his value went down last night. You still have Lock out there that a Denver might look at in round 2 so a third might get it done.

 
my fear with Rosen is he does just enough to stay but isn't a game changer and ends up hanging around and 7 years later, they're in the 7-9 8-8 cycle all over again.      

 
4 top QBs next year... Tua, Fromm, Hebert, Love.  At this point, I'm not sure there's 4 teams that will absolutely need to draft a QB in the first round. 

That bodes well... 

 
Very pleased with the pick. Wouldn’t have hated a trade down to acquire more picks but this kid looks like a good start. 

 
TripleThreat said:
my fear with Rosen is he does just enough to stay but isn't a game changer and ends up hanging around and 7 years later, they're in the 7-9 8-8 cycle all over again.      
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I'd only do it with the idea that if he didn't come in an overwhelm you that you still move on next year.

 
AZ is over a barrel right now...Dolphins or hold and hope someone get's injured.  Rosen unfollowed the Cardinals on IG, he's not going to make it easy for them.  I wouldn't do a deal until I see who's on the board when the Dolphins select in the third.  

 
TripleThreat said:
AZ is over a barrel right now...Dolphins or hold and hope someone get's injured.  Rosen unfollowed the Cardinals on IG, he's not going to make it easy for them.  I wouldn't do a deal until I see who's on the board when the Dolphins select in the third.  
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Rumors are that they didn't start doing calls until right before the draft.  Really poorly played by AZ 

 
Looks like we are giving up our 2 according to this report...

ProFootballTalk on NBC Sports reports the Dolphins are "close" to acquiring QB Josh Rosen from the Cardinals.

With the Giants and Redskins both out of the running, the Dolphins quickly became the front-runners for Rosen, who became expendable when Arizona drafted Kliff Kingsbury favorite Kyler Murray first overall on Thursday night. Assuming the deal comes to fruition, the Cardinals will receive Miami's second-rounder (48th overall) in exchange for Rosen. With little leverage and an unhappy Rosen threatening to become a locker-room distraction (he unfollowed the team on social media Friday), the Cardinals did well to get back a second-rounder for the former UCLA standout. Meanwhile the rebuilding Fins appear to have finally turned the page on the ill-fated Ryan Tannehill Era by installing Rosen as their new franchise signal-caller. The 22-year-old labored through a difficult rookie campaign in Arizona but was poorly coached and had minimal weapons at his disposal. Ultimately we think he'll benefit from a change of scenery.

 
Trading down, getting an extra 2 for next year and using the now lower 2019 2nd for Rosen is an easier pill to swallow. Still not out of the sweepstakes for next year. 

Next year, in Vegas, they have an extra pick every round but the first... 

2020 draft:

1st round

2nd Round

2nd Round (Saints)

3rd round

3rd Round (Comp)

4th Round

4th Round (Titans)

5th Round (Comp)

6th Round

6th Round (Cowboys)

7th Round

7th Round (Chiefs)

 
TripleThreat said:
Gave the lower 2 and a 5th in 2020 for Rosen... ugh. 

Lets hope he’s pulls a 180, FinsUp
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I feel like we did well here between the 2 trades.  Unless I am missing something,  we got Rosen and a 2020 2nd for a 2019 2nd and a 5th.  If the seconds cancel eachother out, (which in a rebuild, they have the same value imo) then we got Rosen for a 5th.

 
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I wasn’t on board for the trade, think giving a 2 (even a later one) and a 5 for Rosen is too much, however, I’ll be rooting for him and am here to be proven wrong. FinsUp

 
Feel like it's a great low risk move. They've got multiple picks in every round except for 1 and 5 next year. If Rosen plays great the back half of the year, you may have solved QB on the cheap. If he continues to stink, you are likely picking very very high and can get Tua or Fromm. Win win. 

 
I think it’s a very low risk trade for Dolphins. First, Rosen doesn’t have an albatross of a contract so if he doesn’t pan out it’s not going to crush their cap and they can still get Tua. Second, lost in all of this is that’s Rosen was a top pick last year and has a ton of talent (i think he is better than any of the QBs in this years class)

 
strykerpks said:
Badger fan here. You're going to like Deiter. Tough kid and a great character to boot. 
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Um, so Van Ginkel has a weird name but honestly think a poor man's Clay Matthews. Kid has a helluva motor and is tough as balls. Not a day one starter but should contribute

 
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Great weekend. The more I read up on Christian Wilkins the more impressed I am. Not only a heck of a football player but sounds like a smart dude and going to be a team leader. I can see this guy as the defensive captain in a couple years. Deiter seems like a versatile guy who probably kicks inside to G but can rotate in many places. Van Ginkel I really don't know much about, sounds like he needs to hit the weight room but has skills. Prince sounds like has all the skills but makes some dumb mistakes, the type of guy if you have a good coaching staff you take advantage of getting in the 6th round. Gaskin in the 7th, sure, kid has upside. The only pick I dont get is Cox in the 6th, special teams guy ?

Oh and then the trade of course, Chuck said above the trade down got us an extra 2nd next year so basically we traded our 2nd this year and a 5th for Rosen and the Saints 2nd next year. Seems like a good deal to kick the tires on Rosen for a year.

 
After chewing on the Rosen trade for the weekend, my concern is still the same, will they settle if he's just average. However, I like the way that Grier is thinking long term and how he’s constructing the team, so I need to trust that he won’t settle and will keep taking shots. Time will tell if Rosen is good enough to win championships or just good enough to keep his job, if he turns out to be that good the price is easily worth it.  

I’ve been critical of them for not taking enough shots or having a competition at the QB position so kudos for taking the shot.     

 
TripleThreat said:
After chewing on the Rosen trade for the weekend, my concern is still the same, will they settle if he's just average. However, I like the way that Grier is thinking long term and how he’s constructing the team, so I need to trust that he won’t settle and will keep taking shots. Time will tell if Rosen is good enough to win championships or just good enough to keep his job, if he turns out to be that good the price is easily worth it.  

I’ve been critical of them for not taking enough shots or having a competition at the QB position so kudos for taking the shot.     
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Right, I really like taking a shot on Rosen at the cost.  It's a bargain.  But I don't want to be stuck in another Tannehill cycle where he's just good enough to get another year to see if he can keep developing, but never good enough to actually be a top end QB in the league.

 
SwampDawg said:
Great weekend. The more I read up on Christian Wilkins the more impressed I am. Not only a heck of a football player but sounds like a smart dude and going to be a team leader. I can see this guy as the defensive captain in a couple years. Deiter seems like a versatile guy who probably kicks inside to G but can rotate in many places. Van Ginkel I really don't know much about, sounds like he needs to hit the weight room but has skills. Prince sounds like has all the skills but makes some dumb mistakes, the type of guy if you have a good coaching staff you take advantage of getting in the 6th round. Gaskin in the 7th, sure, kid has upside. The only pick I dont get is Cox in the 6th, special teams guy ?

Oh and then the trade of course, Chuck said above the trade down got us an extra 2nd next year so basically we traded our 2nd this year and a 5th for Rosen and the Saints 2nd next year. Seems like a good deal to kick the tires on Rosen for a year.
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Good post. Agree with all of it, this was a rare great weekend for the franchise. My thoughts on the Cox pick is that he’s going to be our James Devlin. 

 
I'll be honest, the more I read about Rosen and the awful coaching and situation he had last year the more I like the trade.  -and- I really like that there's going to be a competition.  

All that said.... what numbers would he have to put up for them NOT to draft a QB really early next year (via position or trade up)? 

 
So the first preseason game is in the books, I only saw the highlights but the O-line looks as awful as we fear especially depth wise. Obviously Preston Williams was the highlight last night. Rosen started shaky but seemed to get it going. Myles Gaskin a couple TD's one on the ground and one in the air, I see him becoming a solid change of pace/3rd down option.

Anyone see the whole came and have input ?

 
Hey Dolfans, as we approach Preseason game 2 against the Bucs, I thought I would repost a highly detailed recap of the Fins scrimmages this week.  This information comes from ckparrothead on the Finheaven forum:

Overall MVP of the two days was Kalen Ballage. I don't know what happened to Kenyan Drake that put him in a walking boot on the second day, he was supposed to practice on the first day and then he just didn't. Whatever it was though, Ballage took MAJOR advantage. Yes there were some drops. But the work he got in the receiving game was more significant than a few drops, IMO. And his running was stellar. He was shifty in the hole, making guys miss in a condensed space. But let's be clear about the real thing he showed off...SPEED. He made angles absolutely melt away by running like his *** was engulfed in flames. These Buccaneers players were NOT ready for his speed. That could've been a practice thing. Whatever it was, he looked like Fred Taylor out there.

You all know about Preston Williams. But another story line that generally goes untalked about was probably that Albert Wilson took some discrete steps toward coming back. He suited up, had the pads on, was getting lathered with work, and participated in a fair number of 7-on-7 work. He caught a ball second day, and looked like himself. He's going to be ready for Week 1 and that will be intriguing. Devante Parker had a decent first day but then was out the second day, and given his history with durability concerns, that's something to watch.

A guy that continues to get lots of action and is a virtual lock to be kept around on the practice squad (unless he gets poached) is Trenton Irwin. That dude can run and he can get open against man coverage. They like him doing a lot of stuff you'd see Julian Edelman doing. When Fitzpatrick went to the 2's, Irwin's production blew up even more.

Brice Butler was interesting in that first day they had he and Preston Williams working as a pair, subbing in with the 1st string in 2-WR personnel groupings. Something to keep an eye on in the Bucs preseason game. Two big, tall, athletic guys.

Miami's offensive line on the second day did a little better against the Bucs defensive front players than first day.

Jaryd Jones-Smith got the promotion to 1st string left tackle in place of Jordan Mills. I believe he let up a whistled sack on Josh Rosen at one point, although the officials were being quick to blow those plays dead and Rosen wasn't happy as I think he felt he stepped up to avoid the sack. But otherwise I felt like Jaryd was a stabilizing force compared with Mills. There are snaps where Smith's combination of wing span (biggest I've ever seen) and feet completely erased players in pass rush. That can be a positive for a guy like Ryan Fitzpatrick who has the wherewithal to use that extra spacing and time to do something that hurts the defense. I am hoping this promotion signifies what will happen in the games.

Along the offensive line, Isaiah Prince was picked on quite a bit by Dave DeGuglielmo. Bad. At one point he pulled Prince out of a drill and told him to go stand by a pole. When Prince tried to come out of timeout to go take part in the next drill, Gugs yelled at him again to keep his *** right by that pole, "You don't listen! I'm sick of talking to you!" Isaiah followed up that dressing down in front of the whole unit (and media) by struggling in team stuff. Though he did pull himself back up a bit the next day.

I thought Durval Queiroz was coming along and there was even a time or two he shocked me in how he executed two-man blocking assignments during position drills. But he was never allowed to engage in team drills, and that sort of shows you where he is. This one will be LONG in developing.

Chris Reed looked concise, consistent, and compact whenever I watched him. He was getting high marks from Gugs. They still have to train him at backup Center because when Kilgore gets hurt (and I believe he will) they need to make sure they have someone not named Tony Adams or Kyle Fuller to take over. Neither of the UDFAs they toyed with proved worthy.

Shaq Calhoun and Michael Deiter continue to be up-and-down, with the former being a little more up and the latter being a little more down, just my opinion. Jesse Davis was alright, but he looked low-ceiling for a right tackle.

Josh Rosen was the 1st string QB both days. On the first day it was still being split up, but on the second day he was the exclusive 1st stringer. He looked sharp at times, when he was executing quick 1st read stuff. When he has to come off that, it got ugly (to me). You can visibly see the hesitation hitches in his body language when he's in the backfield, struggling to read the field in a fluid or timely manner. It really throws off the receivers as they try and stay in sync with him. There was a roll-out where Kenny popped open in the end zone and he just hesitated, didn't pull the trigger until it was too late. There was another roll-out he did the same to Preston Williams. Threw it way after the window, nearly picked off, Preston did a good job just to break it up. There was another play where his hesitation resulted in Stills not breaking off a route. Reminded me of trying to play music with someone you don't trust; if you start watching what they're doing instead of listening and feeling, it starts to sound ugly. Rosen held the ball a beat or two longer than he should on a lot of snaps, both days, which cost him whistled sacks. When the pressure was coming, he didn't DO anything about it, which is a stark contrast to Fitzpatrick. Coach criticized his body language and communication on the first day. That's never good.

But he interspersed all these paper cuts with like a big deep ball to DeVante Parker (on a play where he got really good protection), some other big passes. That's what keeps the fans at the table, but you can understand why the coaching staff keep signaling they want more.

Ryan Fitzpatrick took advantage of the bump-down by victimizing 2nd string defenses with his "Fitzmagic" routine. But he also had to deal on the second day with the fact Jordan Mills got demoted with him. So that hurt. But what he showed is that he could dig his unit out of a hole of their own creation, i.e. converting 2nd & 20 after a penalty or sack, stuff like that.

I was unsatisfied with some of the twitter reporting. For example Fitzpatrick threw a pick in the end zone on the second day, and I heard a bunch of criticism about it. But it was during the one-minute drill. It was only 3rd down, but the clock had hit 0:00. What else are you supposed to do, except scramble to buy time, then launch a high one into the end zone and hope one of your guys comes down with it? There was a defensive penalty on the play that bought them another un-timed down, and guess what he did? Fired off a bullet straight up the gut 15 yards to Trenton Irwin for the simulated game-winning TD. The ball fit so tight between defenders it looked like it just appeared in Irwin's hands somehow.

Still, after the week of Rosen working almost exclusively with the 1's...it is damn hard to imagine them starting this game with Fitzpatrick working with the 1's. That just doesn't make sense, from a chemistry standpoint. So prepare to see Rosen start the game.

The defensive line did not show very well against the Buccaneers offensive line in pit drills. That's a concern because those drills favor the defensive line. I thought Vincent Taylor and Davon Godchaux showed well enough. Adolphus Washington is a bit of a surprise standout. The ends, though...

They clearly wanted to get a look at Nate Orchard and Jonathan Ledbetter as defensive ends in these practices, and I think they might start a wave rotation during 1st string between that pair and the Charles Harris/Tank Carradine pair. Ledbetter is intriguing. Orchard not as much, but he does things the way they want their defensive players to do.

Jerome Baker consistently stood out among the linebackers. He just looks and feels...LEGIT. This is a guy to watch. We continue to see him used differently in practice than he was used during the Falcons game. In that game he wasn't blitzed, wasn't in on pass rush, didn't even play up on the line of scrimmage. But I saw him as a 5th outside rusher during the Bucs practices. Still not convinced it'll be good. They should settle him into a Jerod Mayo role where he could blossom. That could limit what they do with other positions, but it's not like they've got great talent to mold at those other positions.

Nick DeLuca looks like a happy accident. He's a late addition and they're using him like Jacksonville did on the edge, in pass rush, and he made plays on both days. He even snagged a pick. He's BIG. Not all that impressive of an athlete, but depending what they have him doing, he might not need to be.

The defensive backs showed really poorly against the Bucs wide receivers in 1-on-1's. That drill inherently favors the receivers, so that bears minding...although it staggered me just how CONSISTENTLY every single Bucs receiver could beat every single Dolphins defensive back, without being seriously challenged during these 1-on-1's. Even Xavien Howard was victimized, often by Chris Godwin. Still, this is a drill where the receiver wins like 80% of the time.

I thought Eric Rowe struggled. I thought Chris Lammons and Jomal Wiltz had their up and down moments. Cornell Armstrong is a good gunner on special teams and had a moment in coverage, but clearly in 1-on-1 drills not even all that competitive. This is a rough position for Miami.

Minkah Fitzpatrick snagged a pick on the second day. But otherwise...you can sense he's not 100% happy with how he's being used with Reshad Jones and T.J. McDonald out of practice.

Bobby McCain looks fine at FS until you actually ask him to cover anybody.

 
That was an awesome recap.  Insightful and detailed.  I really appreciate you putting the time into that.  Well written, easy to read.  Appreciate it, and welcome any other contributions like this one!

 
TripleThreat said:
I'd like to see Rosen/Preston/Ballage all start.  
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Preston and Ballage are off to a great start in camp, and deserve their opportunities.  I like what Flores is doing with Rosen.  He shows talent, but also shows some flaws, like body language and checking down receivers.  They are not rushing him, but working with him to correct those.  He is closing ground on Fitz....

 
Fred Lane said:
Preston and Ballage are off to a great start in camp, and deserve their opportunities.  I like what Flores is doing with Rosen.  He shows talent, but also shows some flaws, like body language and checking down receivers.  They are not rushing him, but working with him to correct those.  He is closing ground on Fitz....
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agreed. 

I'm impressed by Flo so far... this nugget from Minkah in Barry Jackson's article is gold. 

Besides fielding a defense that everyone internally believes will be vastly more unpredictable and multiple, here’s another big change for the players in the move from Adam Gase to Brian Flores:

“I would say just not accepting little mistakes,” Minkah Fitzpatrick said. “Like I think in past seasons, people would just let things slide that [Flores] won’t let slide — whether it be just, instead of [saying], ‘the pass goes over my head. Throw it to another receiver.’ Instead of just taking a little burst one step out, he wants me to run and get to the ball.

“That’s what he wants you to do. It’s going to help you in the game. If somebody tips the ball up, you’re running [toward it]. It’s little stuff like that. Making sure we’re doing the little things right and making sure our habits that you relay over from practice to the game are right.”

Last season, the Dolphins sometimes looked the other way when a player was tardy. Not now.

And player policing of other players has been encouraged.

“The thing is, we have to police ourselves in that group,” Akeem Spence said of a defensive tackle group filled with first-, second- and third-year players excluding him. “That group, we have to push one another. If Davon Godchaux doesn’t do something all the way right, I have to be able to police him. And me too. [If someone says], ‘Hey Spence, your hands weren’t right. Get your hands right.’ ”

 
I didn't have a chance to catch a reply of the game yet but looking at the stats and a the highlights it looked rather Meh on Friday night. Looks like Rosen made some nice passes when he had time but too much pressure allowed.

 
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Nice to see they're locking up Jakeem Grant to a new 4 year deal.  Was under utilized by Gase during most of his tenure ... looking forward to seeing how this staff uses him. 

 
Just in case anyone is not aware, the game tonight against JAX will be televised nationally on FOX.

There are some exceptions, and you can find out what those exceptions are by looking here.

 
I like Laird more than I like Ballage at this point.  Not as big or fast, but has better vision and wiggle.  from what I see...

 
So Fitz is the starter. with the toughest 4 game stretch right outta the gate.... I figured he’d start the first four and Rosen come in after the bye in wk5.  

Rosen came on late but is still struggling identifying defenses and setting protections...so it’s not all that surprising that Fitz was named.  Rosen def looked better in games than Fitz so it looks like there’s meat on the bone and it doesn’t appear to be a total waste of a trade (for the moment) 

 
TripleThreat said:
So Fitz is the starter. with the toughest 4 game stretch right outta the gate.... I figured he’d start the first four and Rosen come in after the bye in wk5.  

Rosen came on late but is still struggling identifying defenses and setting protections...so it’s not all that surprising that Fitz was named.  Rosen def looked better in games than Fitz so it looks like there’s meat on the bone and it doesn’t appear to be a total waste of a trade (for the moment) 
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He looked much better than Fitz. But I agree, I think Rosen is starting after the bye. If Fitz makes it that long. Their OL is pretty atrocious. 

 
So the rumor is the Texans offered their 2020 1st and Clowney for Tunsil. I personally think the Dolphins would be nuts not to take that. Clowney is only slightly older than Tunsil and plays an equally valuable position, and an extra 2020 1st does a lot for a rebuilding team. Who knows where the Texans may finish, The AFC South seems wide open to me. 

 
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