IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
It's going to be great/funny when the Dolphins put Tua out there next season with an expansion-team quality roster around him.
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*** Official 2019 Dolphins Thread *** That's a wrap...now what do we do with the #5 pick? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter SwampDawg
- Start date
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
$113 Million under the cap in the offseason, that buys a lot of new players and then all those draft picks in 2020 and 2021, it looks bleak and I agree however they will be in a position to actually get it turned around quick. Maybe they go 2-14 in 2020, get another top 5 pick, then it's on to 4-12 in 2021, time to grab some of those season tickets all these idiots are letting go of
pantherclub
Footballguy
At the rate this is going I cannot imagine a single team in the NFL that would trade away the chance to draft Lawrence. That kid is just too good no matter how many firsts you get.
finfansteve
Footballguy
That’s what I’m thinking. Everyone expects them to take tua but they could trade the pick for tua away for a kings ransom build up the team just enough to not possibly lose the number one in 2021 and take Lawrence
TripleThreat
Footballguy
According to reports Ross doesn’t care about this year, wants respectable 2020 and playoffs 2021. That timeline means a 2020 QB.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
And people in hell would like a cold drink of water...this is going to take a lot of time to rebuild. They are not likely to hit on all their picks so I'm thinking they might have to go thru another Tannehill like run where they don't know but they kind of know but they don't know and that cycle could repeat again.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Houston and Pittsburgh collapse and Miami drafts all top 3 QBs
They are gonna turn into that hoarder guy in your fantasy draft.-QG
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Dolphins are going to test just how far you can tank and come back from in a reasonable amount of time.
I think the biggest concern has to be drafting a young QB and then ruining him behind a trash O-line with no weapons. I know the Dolphins have a ton of picks and a boatload of cap space, but offensive line play throughout the league is pretty terrible. It's not easy to find or develop good offensive linemen and creat good offensive lines. The likelihood of being able to build a capable O-line with decent offensive weapons in a quick timeframe, through the draft/FA, seems low.
And history is littered with QBs taken high who ended up shellshocked and ruined by poor offensive line play. The Bills very nearly did that with Josh Allen last year.
Tearing things down as far as the Dolphins are all at once, they'd better have a great plan and the right coaching/front office around their new QB.
I think the biggest concern has to be drafting a young QB and then ruining him behind a trash O-line with no weapons. I know the Dolphins have a ton of picks and a boatload of cap space, but offensive line play throughout the league is pretty terrible. It's not easy to find or develop good offensive linemen and creat good offensive lines. The likelihood of being able to build a capable O-line with decent offensive weapons in a quick timeframe, through the draft/FA, seems low.
And history is littered with QBs taken high who ended up shellshocked and ruined by poor offensive line play. The Bills very nearly did that with Josh Allen last year.
Tearing things down as far as the Dolphins are all at once, they'd better have a great plan and the right coaching/front office around their new QB.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Miami now has...
Three 1st Round Picks
1.01
1.08
1.20
Two 2nd Rd Picks including the Saints who just lost Drew Brees and could possibly start a little losing streak
2.01
2.16...Saints pick could easily be a top 50 selection
Miami has 2 3rd round picks likely
3.01
3.100
Miami has the Titans 4th Round pick for THill
4.16
Two 5th, Two 6th, Two 7th
5.01, 5.08, 6.01, 6.28, 7.01, 7.28
I count 14 picks in the NFL Draft and they could actually turn those into more. Say they sign 10-12 free agents and then draft another 10-12 that make the team, everything can look different as early as 2020. They'll be young and still lose a ton of football games but it's interesting how loaded they are going to be going into the off season with $$$ to spend and picks to wheel n deal.
But the I remember who we're talking abut here and I start to
I believe that I have been hostile towards Stephen Ross since he took over the team and especially when Bullygate arose, that was when I knew he would be a bottom 5 owner and he has done nothing but succeed on that front. He doesn't know a lick about football. Sure he watched it as a casual fan or maybe even really enjoyed it but he is clueless on anything related to player personnel or really anything that helps his team get an advantage. He asked th eNFL to start his games at 4:00 instead of 1:00 so fans wouldn't be as hot...never mind that Miami made a living from the 70s, 80s, and 90s playing early games and making opposing team sweat and die in the humidity come the 2nd half. He is beyond clueless when it comes to putting a winning product on the field. He thinks he can cut corners now and tank to grab a QB and be respectable in 2020.
Three 1st Round Picks
1.01
1.08
1.20
Two 2nd Rd Picks including the Saints who just lost Drew Brees and could possibly start a little losing streak
2.01
2.16...Saints pick could easily be a top 50 selection
Miami has 2 3rd round picks likely
3.01
3.100
Miami has the Titans 4th Round pick for THill
4.16
Two 5th, Two 6th, Two 7th
5.01, 5.08, 6.01, 6.28, 7.01, 7.28
I count 14 picks in the NFL Draft and they could actually turn those into more. Say they sign 10-12 free agents and then draft another 10-12 that make the team, everything can look different as early as 2020. They'll be young and still lose a ton of football games but it's interesting how loaded they are going to be going into the off season with $$$ to spend and picks to wheel n deal.
But the I remember who we're talking abut here and I start to
I believe that I have been hostile towards Stephen Ross since he took over the team and especially when Bullygate arose, that was when I knew he would be a bottom 5 owner and he has done nothing but succeed on that front. He doesn't know a lick about football. Sure he watched it as a casual fan or maybe even really enjoyed it but he is clueless on anything related to player personnel or really anything that helps his team get an advantage. He asked th eNFL to start his games at 4:00 instead of 1:00 so fans wouldn't be as hot...never mind that Miami made a living from the 70s, 80s, and 90s playing early games and making opposing team sweat and die in the humidity come the 2nd half. He is beyond clueless when it comes to putting a winning product on the field. He thinks he can cut corners now and tank to grab a QB and be respectable in 2020.
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pantherclub
Footballguy
Thats Tua (or whatever qb they like) and one of the top tackles in the draft.
That is an incredible foundation for just one year of "tanking". They can do a complete rebuild in 2 drafts with the bulk of their team on first deals and still go out and get free agents. I am surprised more teams havent followed this model.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I like your idea, let's roll it out some more...
1.01-QB agree
1.08-DE/Pass Rush OLB...they got nothing
Mid-Late 1st Best OL they can draft
2.01-Impact WR
Middle 2nd-OL again, they're going to need 5 of them so get 2 good ones
3rd Round- 2 picks, many nice WRs came out o the 3rd round in 2017 including Kupp, Golladay and Godwin in Tampa Bay....would like to see Miami draft 2 good WR prospects to groom with the QB they take. Maybe they can get another LB or even a RB because they will let Drake walk and that might end up getting them another 3rd round compensation pick.
7 picks in the last 4 rounds should provide plenty of depth for OL, DL, LB prospects...
They have $113 Million to spend and I hope they don't sign a Suh like player ($20 Million a year) vs a lot of $5Million a season types that maybe some teams don't want to pay big bucks but are solid. We need a lot of solid players to rebuild around.
This is dumb. If you have the #1 pick with a good QB coming out, why would you risk that? The chances of Miami getting the #1 pick in 2021 is likely under 50%, and that would absolutely cripple you if you pass on Tua and end up with the 2nd worst team in the NFL next year.finfansteve said:
Edit: IF they still end up the worst team next year under Tua, then you can either trade Tua or trade that #1 pick for probably the biggest ransom in nfl history.
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Todem
Footballguy
To his credit Grier has done pretty good. They got rid of the awful Tannenbaum.
They are clearly cleaning house. Something we as long suffering Dolphins fans have been asking for well over a decade and a half.
I have confidence in Grier and Flores to get the right personnel to fit Flores culture and system all adopted from the Patriots. It all starts with getting the right QB. Is that Tua or is that Justin Herbert?
Fitzpatrick questions the coaches? His mother takes to social media? GTFOH bye bye.
Stills questions his owner? GTFOH bye bye.
Trading Tunsil and Stills for that haul? Excellent move. Tunsil is a solid LT. He is no stud LT though. We can draft or sign another.
Jones, Drake are a couple of more players they will move before the trading deadline. No doubt they will.
Mountains of draft picks and over 100MM in cap space. If they play their cards right we can have a powerhouse team in a couple of years,
They are clearly cleaning house. Something we as long suffering Dolphins fans have been asking for well over a decade and a half.
I have confidence in Grier and Flores to get the right personnel to fit Flores culture and system all adopted from the Patriots. It all starts with getting the right QB. Is that Tua or is that Justin Herbert?
Fitzpatrick questions the coaches? His mother takes to social media? GTFOH bye bye.
Stills questions his owner? GTFOH bye bye.
Trading Tunsil and Stills for that haul? Excellent move. Tunsil is a solid LT. He is no stud LT though. We can draft or sign another.
Jones, Drake are a couple of more players they will move before the trading deadline. No doubt they will.
Mountains of draft picks and over 100MM in cap space. If they play their cards right we can have a powerhouse team in a couple of years,
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I'm trying to think of an example of a team that had a horrible offensive line, added a bunch of free agents and draft picks, and got things turned around in one offseason. I seem to recall somebody doing that recently, but I just can't remember which team. It's on the tip of my tongue . . .GroveDiesel said:
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
https://www.miamidolphins.com/news/chris-grier-lays-out-dolphins-vision
“We can do anything we want,” Grier said.
I snipped the quote at PFT but it's shocking to hear how delighted he is where they have arrived so far.
Todem
Footballguy
MOP this was a long time coming. A very long time coming. And Dolphins fans should be thrilled the position this team has put itself in for the next few years in free agency and the draft. It is all about execution now and getting the right guys in here. Guys that buy in and fit the culture that Flores is installing.
See the dumpster fire already in NY? They can choke on Gase. He is a team killer. Already players are revolting. He is the worst kind of coach. I was stunned they hired him. Stunned. They should have stuck with Todd Bowles who is a high quality guy. Darnold has a bright future and Bowles was loved by his players.
Gase is toxic. I can't stand the guy as an NFL HC. Pure garbage.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I'm with you lock and stock with Gase...let's go back and look at that press conference. He looked really disturbed he was run out of here and it's not the first the AFC East has hired a retread from within the division...Rex Ryan, Adam Gase, Todd Bowles was Miami head coach for a few games...
The Jets will beat Miami twice although it will be interesting if both teams are winless coming into week 7 or 8...that's going to be something because even if the Jets are satisfied with Sam Darnold, they still would want the number one spot even to just leverage and trade it. That said I can't see anyway Miami wins a single ball game all year unless another coaching staff tries to out coach them in futility.
Grier sounded very confident and a little more upfront that everything is going as planned.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I love Xavien Howard, would love to keep him but...they can probably get something pretty eye popping for him right now. Miami is showing that if you are willing to deal once thought of untradeable players that you can get a king's ransom when the season unfolds and GM/HC are playing for their jobs.
I would believe that playoff level teams would love to have Howard and sending a 1st plus some more...Miami can reload the whole thing, they aren't going to win more than a couple if that in 2020, would love to see them have Tua for a year and still be able to go for Trevor Lawrence if they need to.
It doesn't seem like 2021 Draft is the goal, Tua in 2020 is the plan...unless Tua decides to stay in Alabama for another year but I wouldn't be surprised if Miami has already started to send signals they want to take him in the draft No 1 overall.
I would believe that playoff level teams would love to have Howard and sending a 1st plus some more...Miami can reload the whole thing, they aren't going to win more than a couple if that in 2020, would love to see them have Tua for a year and still be able to go for Trevor Lawrence if they need to.
It doesn't seem like 2021 Draft is the goal, Tua in 2020 is the plan...unless Tua decides to stay in Alabama for another year but I wouldn't be surprised if Miami has already started to send signals they want to take him in the draft No 1 overall.
Todem
Footballguy
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
What if Miami were to receive a 1st and maybe a 2nd by sending one of these many later round picks back in return for Howard?
Problem for Howard is he already got a big pay day and even if Miami is making his stats skew the wrong way he isn't really losing in 2019...this bleeds over into 2020/2021 he might wish he was somewhere else. But I hope Miami can keep him and get him excited about the future.
Miami hasn't sustained too many injuries but imagine Week 8-9 when they start piling up, this team will be fielding guys you've never heard of, they already are.
Howard is the line in the sand. Mikah is a player I like a lot, but he doesn't really have a position. If he isn't buying into the defensive strategy of Flores, I don't have an issue with it. Tunsil was OK, particularly since Tua is a lefty.
Todem
Footballguy
And I do not think Tua is going to be the guy. I think it will be Justin Herbert. Tunsil can be drafted again. He was not elite. No way.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
And since Tua is a lefty, we are looking for a stud RT - which is a less valuable commodity league wide and a cheaper addition. May not even need to draft that player so early.pantherclub said:
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Well let's wait until they actually make those picks, not to mention see how they pan out, before we crown it as the greatest idea ever.pantherclub said:
That's not to mention that the potential franchise tackle we'd be getting is replacing the franchise tackle we already had at teh beginning of this, which makes it a bit less impressive.
Todem
Footballguy
I never considered Tunsil a franchise tackle. He is an average at best pass protector. He is a very good run blocker. But at LT you want an elite pass protector. He is not that.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
Either Omar Kelly or Armando Salguero have tweeted a few times that the target is 100% Tua. I dont have it to link, and I dont know what day it was tweeted, but I did read it. Not that they are the spokespeople for our front office, but they seem to usually be pretty well dialed in.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I don't read a single or of Omar Kelly, 1st class ### and Punk, guy has no respect for anything, would like to see him moved out of the Miami market to cover another team. Many beat writers for teams don't grow up watching them and I think Kelly should get no readership...I'm surprised he can keep a job with his Twitter ad Instagram Gaffes, this guy seems clueless.
Salguero can't think of any original thought, he should have been on the Tank Bandwagon a Decade ago but I will say he has the most reliable sources on the team. His soft pedal approach over the last 2 decades has earned him the ear of most of the Phins but I do wonder when they will cut him off as he has been open about Tanking for Tua going back to January.
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ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
LOL wow. I like Omar but I am out of market so I dont have the same exposure. He actually seems to me to be right more than wrong. He isnt always positive or optimistic but seems realistic, and realistic when it comes to this team involves very little optimism.
Todem
Footballguy
Omar Kelly rubs me the wrong way a lot. I am not a fan of either guy that much by Armando seems more dialed in. If it is Tua....then so be it. This is why these guys get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars (millions in terms of our HC) to make these decisions.
But I am on board 100% with the front office and Flores on the plan. It was a long time coming. We can only hope it works out.
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pantherclub
Footballguy
I like Tua fine but I also think Fromm is going to be legit and I want to see more from that kid from LSU. He has looked good in the couple of games I have seen him.
I dont really have a feel yet for Herbert
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Dominique Foxworth unloaded on the Miami Dolphins and there was a lot of merit in what he said. Yes it's great Miami is bending the rules the way the Patriots have done for the last 2 decades, we've been playing a different game than they have. That said this absolutely morally reprehensible as Dominique lashed on the Miami ownership because in the end all these players, coaches and front office folks are going to be fired eventually for a better coach to lead the team and the person who will be benefit the most is the owner who is one of if not the worst of all 32 owners from a pure football knowledge standpoint, this guy knows NOTHING!!! He hired Adam Gase and over rode Mike Tannenbaum who had other ideas.
Don't assume Miami will be able to execute this plan, the easy part or step one was gutting the roster and they've done a magnificent job of it, perhaps a little too good.
Don't assume Miami will be able to execute this plan, the easy part or step one was gutting the roster and they've done a magnificent job of it, perhaps a little too good.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
pantherclub
Footballguy
What do you mean by this? I think they just executed their plan perfectly in every way imaginable. Loaded up on a ton of picks.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
pantherclub
Footballguy
Do what? They are clearly into step 3 now. There roster is gutted, they have a ton of cap space and picks and they are getting waxed at a record level. I would say they are the favorites for the #1 pick
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
If you read that article, it's a great time line. Miami was simply letting a lot of bad contracts walk like Branch who didn't even make the final cuts on his next stop...The real gutting of this team didn't truly take place until close to the start of the season. Miami wanted to make sure it still looked like they would win a few games so that most teams would not keep pace with them for mounting up losses this year. I think a couple teams might try and gut their rosters in the next couple weeks and give Miami a run for their money.
They just unloaded Fitzpatrick and they could still move a few more guys and likely will. Rashad Jones just cannot be for long even if they have to kick in for some of his salary and get him off their books. And you are discounting the execution when it comes to DRAFT because Miami has a long history now over the last 20+ years of drafting poorly and even when they hit on a guy they tend no to keep him into their 2nd contract, trade him away for a magic 2nd round pick and then that turns into flaming dog poo.
I'm a little jaded as a Miami native so forgive me.
SwampDawg
Footballguy
I think Howard's new contract makes trading him basically impossible due to the cap hit.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Well Tunsil was considered a top 3 overall talent who fell only because of the gas mask video, so if even he doesn't qualify as a franchise tackle then that makes pantherclub's notion that we've essentially already secured a franchise tackle with Pittsburgh's pick that is unlikely to be top 5 even more premature.
Todem
Footballguy
Hard to say where the Steelers pick will end up. And I remember all that about Tunsil. He is a good LT. If he would have been taken top 3....that team would be disappointed. He is an decent pass protector and that is not what you draft a top LT to be. At first I very resistant to the idea of trading him.....but the haul we got was excellent. We will be able to draft another LT who potentially can be as good or better.
What does the free agent LT and RT crop look to be next off-season...that also is worth looking into. If they know Tua is the man RT is the focus.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Exactly and you would never have wanted to take on James new contract he got in Denver, that was a of $$$ for a very avg RT IMHO.
Tunsil was good but you nailed it, not a super pass protector, better run blocking LT. What teams are running sweep left in their playbook? Most of the better run blocking types are in the LG-C, C-RG spots like what the Vikings did with drafting their Center and really adding some pop between the Tackles.
I hope Miami is able to draft 2-3 OL, sign 1-2 strong but not elite types and get whoever they draft at QB an opp to stand upright.
Todem
Footballguy
Exactly. many elite OL have been built with savvy drafting and a key free agent or two.
The bolded has to be proven though by this new regime. That is the big question. Can they draft really good? It is the measure that they will be judged by.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
In regards to OL, I'd say pay up for one of the two Tackle spots and have at least one slobber knocker as C-G to get those tough yards on 3rd and short if we ever get to that point
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Ok,
Armando has a nice article about the fact Miami had no intention of doing exactly what they are doing but things fell that way (he posted it today).
So let's sum up:
1) They wanted to get cap relief for 2020. They did this with savvy trading and getting some picks before the Tunsil deal.
2) They didn't really want to lose Tunsil, but when you get 2 #1s and a #2 and are able to shed a little more salary (Stills), they were overwhelmed.
3) Minkah: I liked him, and I am annoyed that they got rid of him, but not at the price they got for him. (FWIW, Stephen Ross wanted them to Draft Lamar Jackson at 13! so he may not be as dumb as everyone thinks)
FInally: Until Brady retires (or Bellicheck, or both), whats the goal here? Keep slamming into the 7-9 brick wall and going no where? As a lifelong phins fan, I'm happier than I have been since Marino that we are trying something NEW to be relevant again. Would I rather be the chargers, with nothing to show for Rivers' career? We did that with marino and it was exciting with no payoff. Lets see if the tank job works.
Armando has a nice article about the fact Miami had no intention of doing exactly what they are doing but things fell that way (he posted it today).
So let's sum up:
1) They wanted to get cap relief for 2020. They did this with savvy trading and getting some picks before the Tunsil deal.
2) They didn't really want to lose Tunsil, but when you get 2 #1s and a #2 and are able to shed a little more salary (Stills), they were overwhelmed.
3) Minkah: I liked him, and I am annoyed that they got rid of him, but not at the price they got for him. (FWIW, Stephen Ross wanted them to Draft Lamar Jackson at 13! so he may not be as dumb as everyone thinks)
FInally: Until Brady retires (or Bellicheck, or both), whats the goal here? Keep slamming into the 7-9 brick wall and going no where? As a lifelong phins fan, I'm happier than I have been since Marino that we are trying something NEW to be relevant again. Would I rather be the chargers, with nothing to show for Rivers' career? We did that with marino and it was exciting with no payoff. Lets see if the tank job works.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Finally:
My draft approach:
1.01 QB
Steelers Pick: LT (edge rushers can be bought in Free agency), or trade down if no good LT is there and load up for 2021
Houston Pick: Corner, Safety, or WR (#1 type guy like A Julio Jones)
Round 2: OG and BPA (whatever you didn't pick at Houston Pick)
Round 3: Another OG/Center and slot corner/return guy
After that: depth at other positions (LB, Safety, RB, corner)
2021:
Whatever didn't pan out in 2020 or depth issues.
My draft approach:
1.01 QB
Steelers Pick: LT (edge rushers can be bought in Free agency), or trade down if no good LT is there and load up for 2021
Houston Pick: Corner, Safety, or WR (#1 type guy like A Julio Jones)
Round 2: OG and BPA (whatever you didn't pick at Houston Pick)
Round 3: Another OG/Center and slot corner/return guy
After that: depth at other positions (LB, Safety, RB, corner)
2021:
Whatever didn't pan out in 2020 or depth issues.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Thats a smart draft, pick a qb and then just overwhelm your roster with young line help to build a nice foundation. Skill positions will come later
TripleThreat
Footballguy
IT'S ROSEN TIME! (earlier than I thought, but hey... can't get worse!)
and TACO Thursday! Taco Charlton come on down!
and TACO Thursday! Taco Charlton come on down!
Is Rosen the backup QB of the future?
The time is right to find out. Maybe the Dolphins get lucky and he's much better than expected. The time was right.
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