Official 2019 Oakland (?) Raiders Thread (1 Viewer)

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

What #1 WR are we going to get right now? Sure Diggs wants a trade but the Vikings aren't game. A fifth for Zay Jones who has more potential than what he has done so far. I am good with that. 

I don't know that we even tried.

Diggs seemed like the obvious choice. Don't know how much the VIkes are holding out. Crabtree may have been another thought?

Not saying getting Zay is bad -- solid value for the trade for someone who could hopefully contribute at a time when we're dangerously thin.

I just don't think anyone can say aside -- outside from unproven potential upside and having another available warm body -- how this is really adds to the team.

The difference between him and Ryan Grant aren't huge in my mind in terms of what they bring to the game. I guess all-time college receptions and single-season receptions seems like better provenance at the very least. We'll see.

 

[Hankmoody]

I don't know that we even tried.

Diggs seemed like the obvious choice. Don't know how much the VIkes are holding out. Crabtree may have been another thought?

Not saying getting Zay is bad -- solid value for the trade for someone who could hopefully contribute at a time when we're dangerously thin.

I just don't think anyone can say aside -- outside from unproven potential upside and having another available warm body -- how this is really adds to the team.

The difference between him and Ryan Grant aren't huge in my mind in terms of what they bring to the game. I guess all-time college receptions and single-season receptions seems like better provenance at the very least. We'll see.

Maybe we didn't, and I'd be thrilled to add him too.  But Zones for this price is absolutely worth taking the shot for.  If we had given Grant and a 5th for Sanu I think everyone would love that move, and I think we can get at least Sanu level performance out of Zones.

 

[Biabreakable]

Maybe we didn't, and I'd be thrilled to add him too.  But Zones for this price is absolutely worth taking the shot for.  If we had given Grant and a 5th for Sanu I think everyone would love that move, and I think we can get at least Sanu level performance out of Zones.

I still like Jones and that he will be a better fit with Carr and Gruden than he was with Allen whov8snt a timing passer.

He had a really rough rookie season but seemed to improve from that in his second year. 

If nothing else it gives us a reason to call him Zones for awhile longer.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Maybe we didn't, and I'd be thrilled to add him too.  But Zones for this price is absolutely worth taking the shot for.  If we had given Grant and a 5th for Sanu I think everyone would love that move, and I think we can get at least Sanu level performance out of Zones.

Forget Sanu, I don't know why we aren't on the horn with Cinci and trying to get A.J. Green on our team.

Either way, really happy with the way this team is punching far above its weight this year so far, given all the injury, distraction, and other adversity.

Hope we keep this momentum going after the bye, the next 4 games can make or break our record this year, and they are decidedly not easy match ups for us.

 

[[scooter]]

A.J. Green is done. 

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

A.J. Green is done. 

How did you come to this determination? And did you feel the same way about AB prior to the implosion? Both are the same age.

Green is about a week away from returning to a Bengals squad that is wasting his talents these days.

A cheap, short term deal for a 1-year WR1 like Green I think would help fill a gap in need more than Zay Jones. 

That's assuming you could get him on a cheap, short term deal (I don't know his current contract structure).

 

[DocHolliday]

How did you come to this determination? And did you feel the same way about AB prior to the implosion? Both are the same age.

Green is about a week away from returning to a Bengals squad that is wasting his talents these days.

A cheap, short term deal for a 1-year WR1 like Green I think would help fill a gap in need more than Zay Jones. 

That's assuming you could get him on a cheap, short term deal (I don't know his current contract structure).

I don't know that Green is done but he makes more sense than crazy AB ever did.   Not sure what Green would cost and I'm a bigger fan of draft picks than older players for this young team.  

 

[LawFitz]

Burfict suspension upheld. That's some bull#### right there, folks.

Last time VB was suspended prior to being a Raider. 3 games

Amount of games Punkman Jones got for ripping Amari's helmet off then slamming his head into the ground. 0

Amount of games Earl Thomas got for just last week nearly decapitating Mason Rudolph. 0

####### Raiderade never stops.

 

[Chaka]

Burfict suspension upheld. That's some bull#### right there, folks.

Last time VB was suspended prior to being a Raider. 3 games

Amount of games Punkman Jones got for ripping Amari's helmet off then slamming his head into the ground. 0

Amount of games Earl Thomas got for just last week nearly decapitating Mason Rudolph. 0

####### Raiderade never stops.

Both of those are specious comparisons. Thomas has no history of on, or off field issues and Pacman Jones history was related entirely to off-field issues.

Burfict is a recidivist head-hunter who was seemingly unable or unwilling to change his game. There is no place for his style of play in the NFL. How many suspensions and fines has he had for on field dirty play? Seven? Eight? No, his uppance has finally come.

His ability will be missed but I would have no problem if he never played again. 

This has nothing to do with the Raiders.

 

[kaso]

Both of those are specious comparisons. Thomas has no history of on, or off field issues and Pacman Jones history was related entirely to off-field issues.

Burfict is a recidivist head-hunter who was seemingly unable or unwilling to change his game. There is no place for his style of play in the NFL. How many suspensions and fines has he had for on field dirty play? Seven? Eight? No, his uppance has finally come.

His ability will be missed but I would have no problem if he never played again. 

This has nothing to do with the Raiders.

I had to google 'recidivist'... this is a FF forum, lets keep it to the lower levels of the English language please!

A lengthy Burfict suspension was likely only a matter to time.  I don't necessarily think the hit on Doyle was enough to get him ejected from the game, and definitely not enough to warrant a suspension.  But the league seemed to have their finger on the button ready for the first hint of a misstep by him.  As a Raider fan I'm not happy with the loss of his leadership and skill set on the field. 

The bigger issue I have is how the league hides behind the player safety argument when it is convenient for them to do so and their inconsistency of the applying rules across the board.  There are plenty of examples already this season where a penalty should have been called in game, or a fine or suspension to the player.   The lack of that consistency makes the Burfict situation stand out more than it likely should.

 

[Chaka]

I had to google 'recidivist'... this is a FF forum, lets keep it to the lower levels of the English language please!

A lengthy Burfict suspension was likely only a matter to time.  I don't necessarily think the hit on Doyle was enough to get him ejected from the game, and definitely not enough to warrant a suspension.  But the league seemed to have their finger on the button ready for the first hint of a misstep by him.  As a Raider fan I'm not happy with the loss of his leadership and skill set on the field. 

The bigger issue I have is how the league hides behind the player safety argument when it is convenient for them to do so and their inconsistency of the applying rules across the board.  There are plenty of examples already this season where a penalty should have been called in game, or a fine or suspension to the player.   The lack of that consistency makes the Burfict situation stand out more than it likely should.

You make joke, right?

Big Silver & Black linebacker have much time and many option (other choice) before hit on Blue & White tight end and still Big Linebacker lower head to hit Blue & White tight end. Dirty play, no question.

Here moving picture of hit by Big Linebacker. Very clear. You look.

Maybe other player only get fine, maybe other player not get eject. Maybe not. But Big Silver & Black linebacker not other player.

Good choice by referee, good choice by NFL, good choice by person who review NFL choice.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

I appreciate the ire over Burfict's suspension. The league is definitely not applying in-game action/repercussions (ejections, penalties, etc.) fairly or evenly. It's a disgrace that exhaling aggressively in Brady's general direction is a 15 yard flag, while hits equal or worse to Burfict's -- in the very same weekend, no less -- go completely uncalled. 

But it is really, really hard to be upset with the season long suspension.

Yes, it totally blows and I'm sad we lost what looked to be a core cog in our D.

Yes, it's unjustifiable for the league to start tacking on additional incidents (all of the sudden bringing up a hit on Oct 6 out of the blue) to add to their decision process here.

Yes, it seems totally unprecedented in terms of punishment.

But Burfict's record of illegal hits, warnings, fines, etc. is also unprecedented. And it's hard to blame the league for cracking down here -- Burfict's continued choice to not clean up his style of play, especially in light of the track record he had, is really what's to blame.

 

[DocHolliday]

I appreciate the ire over Burfict's suspension. The league is definitely not applying in-game action/repercussions (ejections, penalties, etc.) fairly or evenly. It's a disgrace that exhaling aggressively in Brady's general direction is a 15 yard flag, while hits equal or worse to Burfict's -- in the very same weekend, no less -- go completely uncalled. 

But it is really, really hard to be upset with the season long suspension.

Yes, it totally blows and I'm sad we lost what looked to be a core cog in our D.

Yes, it's unjustifiable for the league to start tacking on additional incidents (all of the sudden bringing up a hit on Oct 6 out of the blue) to add to their decision process here.

Yes, it seems totally unprecedented in terms of punishment.

But Burfict's record of illegal hits, warnings, fines, etc. is also unprecedented. And it's hard to blame the league for cracking down here -- Burfict's continued choice to not clean up his style of play, especially in light of the track record he had, is really what's to blame.

The NFL had enough of Burfict and made sure they had evidence to get him off the field.   While he deserved his punishment, the bigger issue is the lack of flags for similar hits and lack of additional punishment for similar hits.   We want consistency and when that doesn't happen, we feel as though the Raiders were singled out.   But, the lack consistency in the NFL is all over the place, not just unnecessary roughness calls.   The PI calls and reviews are a total joke.  The NFL somehow made the horrible PI call situation from the Saints game last year worse.   

 

[Chadstroma]

Cut JJ Nelson. Resigned Ateman. 

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Cut JJ Nelson. Resigned Ateman. 

Gruden straight up running the team like a fantasy squad.

Honestly, not too disapppinted. Seemed to peak in 2016, and injuries have really hampered his ability to compete. We need contributors now.

 

[DocHolliday]

Gruden straight up running the team like a fantasy squad.

Honestly, not too disapppinted. Seemed to peak in 2016, and injuries have really hampered his ability to compete. We need contributors now.

A healthy Nelson had potential but those injuries must be taking a toll since Ateman has never really looked special to me.    But, I love the youth movement.   

 

[LawFitz]

A healthy Nelson had potential but those injuries must be taking a toll since Ateman has never really looked special to me.    But, I love the youth movement.   

JJN has never been able to stay healthy. He teases evaluators with that speed, but it doesn't due any good on the trainer's table. Hopefully Jay Zones and/or Trev Davis can fill in that role. Look for Gruyock to find a more credible Z receiver in free agency next year (or rd 1 of the draft if someone polished and pro-ready is there).

 

[LawFitz]

Here moving picture of hit by Big Linebacker. Very clear. You look.

Doyle was rising as Burfict made his approach. Leave Doyle in his initial position and Burfict's facemask rubs the top of Doyle's helmet.

Should Burfict have been better about adjusting to that dynamic? Sure.

Should he do a much better job of keeping his eyes and head up at the point of contact? Definitely.

Was this unequivocally (for Kaso, i.e. unquestionably) an *intentional* helmet-helmet strike? No.

It was a bang-bang play with ample video evidence to suggest that the intent was not there. Take away the absolute evidence of intent, and the full season suspension is a joke. Complete utter B.S. Again, 3 games the last time he was suspended. We're going from 3 games to 12 without clear and obvious intent?

Separate note - I don't give a #### what Punkman's past transgressions were. Here are the absolute unequivocal FACTS about that incident. He had Cooper mounted. He grabbed Cooper's helmet and (INTENTIONALLY) ripped it off. He then grabbed Cooper's head, lifted it up and slammed it back against the turf. No accident. Not a bang-bang football play. Not even a play at all. Just pure thuggery. ZERO games suspended.

You accuse others of wearing Raider glasses, but I think you are trying so hard not to do so, that you're blinding yourself in the other direction. The league clearly and obviously hates the Raiders. That isn't conspiracy fact, but it's strong conspiracy theory at this point.

 

[Chaka]

Doyle was rising as Burfict made his approach. Leave Doyle in his initial position and Burfict's facemask rubs the top of Doyle's helmet.

Should Burfict have been better about adjusting to that dynamic? Sure.

Should he do a much better job of keeping his eyes and head up at the point of contact? Definitely.

Was this unequivocally (for Kaso, i.e. unquestionably) an *intentional* helmet-helmet strike? No.

It was a bang-bang play with ample video evidence to suggest that the intent was not there. Take away the absolute evidence of intent, and the full season suspension is a joke. Complete utter B.S. Again, 3 games the last time he was suspended. We're going from 3 games to 12 without clear and obvious intent?

Separate note - I don't give a #### what Punkman's past transgressions were. Here are the absolute unequivocal FACTS about that incident. He had Cooper mounted. He grabbed Cooper's helmet and (INTENTIONALLY) ripped it off. He then grabbed Cooper's head, lifted it up and slammed it back against the turf. No accident. Not a bang-bang football play. Not even a play at all. Just pure thuggery. ZERO games suspended.

You accuse others of wearing Raider glasses, but I think you are trying so hard not to do so, that you're blinding yourself in the other direction. The league clearly and obviously hates the Raiders. That isn't conspiracy fact, but it's strong conspiracy theory at this point.

Pacman deserved a fine and suspension. So what? It's comparing apples to spaceships.

As far as intent, I think it's pretty clear that Burfict goes into games with the intent to hurt people and he isn't alone. But he is in a very small minority of those who refused to play by the rules. He clearly had time to chose to adjust on that tackle and he chose not to.

Not sure why people think this suspension is over the top. He isn't going to change his play style. Ever. You could never believe him  no matter how much he tried to convince us otherwise. Would anyone believe Antonio Brown if he said he was going to be a lunch pail from this moment forward? Of course not and no one should believe Burfict if he says he will clean up his play style.

That hit on Doyle may well have been his last. I hope it was worth it for him.

 

[LawFitz]

Pacman deserved a fine and suspension. So what? It's comparing apples to spaceships.

As far as intent, I think it's pretty clear that Burfict goes into games with the intent to hurt people and he isn't alone. But he is in a very small minority of those who refused to play by the rules. He clearly had time to chose to adjust on that tackle and he chose not to.

Not sure why people think this suspension is over the top. He isn't going to change his play style. Ever. You could never believe him  no matter how much he tried to convince us otherwise. Would anyone believe Antonio Brown if he said he was going to be a lunch pail from this moment forward? Of course not and no one should believe Burfict if he says he will clean up his play style.

That hit on Doyle may well have been his last. I hope it was worth it for him.

6-8 games max. He does it again, then you take away his season and/or career. The rest of it was pure Raiderade.

Easy for you to say he should've adjusted from your couch, watching the play in slow mo. It was a bang-bang football play. Doyle was rising. Burfict aimed high and Doyle rose into the strike zone. Burfict should've done better, no doubt, and I never suggested he was blameless. Just completely disagree that it was obvious that he intentionally went helmet-helmet. 

Punkman isn't apples and spaceships. It's an example of how the league metes out punishments inconsistently, especially for the Raiders. Same thing for Thomas' hit on Rudolph. Not suggesting Thomas be suspended for the season. At all. But his hit looked way more intentional. It did way more damage, putting Rudolph in the hospital. And that doesn't deserve 2 games? Or even 1? Or even an ejection? C'mon.

You are being obtuse and straw-manning by saying it's apples and spaceships. I'm not comparing the actions exactly, per your straw man. But rather the constant heavy-hand for the Raiders in these situations vs. the other-way looks for other teams, especially when this stuff happens to the Raiders.

I'll give you another example... I can't recall which game it was (maybe Chiefs?) but earlier this year Carr took a late hit where the Dlineman threw his forearm up and smashed Derek across the throat. It was as egregious of a passer roughing as you will see, on multiple fronts. No ejection. No suspension. Not even a ####### flag. Earlier that same game one of our Dlineman barely touched their QB after the throw on a key third down that the Raiders stopped. Flag. 1st down. Drive continues.

 

[Chaka]

6-8 games max. He does it again, then you take away his season and/or career. The rest of it was pure Raiderade.

Easy for you to say he should've adjusted from your couch, watching the play in slow mo. It was a bang-bang football play. Doyle was rising. Burfict aimed high and Doyle rose into the strike zone. Burfict should've done better, no doubt, and I never suggested he was blameless. Just completely disagree that it was obvious that he intentionally went helmet-helmet. 

Punkman isn't apples and spaceships. It's an example of how the league metes out punishments inconsistently, especially for the Raiders. Same thing for Thomas' hit on Rudolph. Not suggesting Thomas be suspended for the season. At all. But his hit looked way more intentional. It did way more damage, putting Rudolph in the hospital. And that doesn't deserve 2 games? Or even 1? Or even an ejection? C'mon.

You are being obtuse and straw-manning by saying it's apples and spaceships. I'm not comparing the actions exactly, per your straw man. But rather the constant heavy-hand for the Raiders in these situations vs. the other-way looks for other teams, especially when this stuff happens to the Raiders.

I'll give you another example... I can't recall which game it was (maybe Chiefs?) but earlier this year Carr took a late hit where the Dlineman threw his forearm up and smashed Derek across the throat. It was as egregious of a passer roughing as you will see, on multiple fronts. No ejection. No suspension. Not even a ####### flag. Earlier that same game one of our Dlineman barely touched their QB after the throw on a key third down that the Raiders stopped. Flag. 1st down. Drive continues.

I agree that Jones absolutely should have been suspended for A game for what he did to Cooper. It was inconsistent. Was he fined?

Was Thomas fined?

I am not sure why you are calling for suspensions for first offenses (the Jones infraction warranted an exception in my book). How many fines/suspensions have Jones and Thomas racked up in their careers?

It's not a straw man to point out there is a huge difference between first or second offenses and an eighth (or whatever) offense. Burfict had been given chance after chance after chance ad infinitum, and he has ####ed it up every single time. It was a huge jump in number of games suspended, and I thought it would be reduced to eight. But so what? Fines and three game suspensions clearly didn't work.

It isn't Raider thing it's a Burfict thing. The Raiders need to be relevant before the league will start to notice them again.

And it was not nearly as "bang-bang" as you suggest. He's a pro, he didn't have to use that technique.

 

[Chaka]

Thomas was fined $21k and the ref called a roughing penalty.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

If we heal up and have spent the bye week wisely -- prepping extra for GB, installing plays and schemes to continue to leverage our run-to-set-up-the-pass O and our bend-don't-break-and-keep-you-in-games D...

...things could potentially turn out really nice given the Chiefs recent and ongoing woes and the Chargers getting thoroughly handled by the Steelers.

Chargers twice, Jets (though they look stronger as they heal too), CIN, TEN, and even JAC might be very winnable games for us.

 

[Chaka]

Surprising season so far with the rest of the division struggling.

I don't think anyone predicted 2nd place after six weeks.

It's nice.

 

[Chadstroma]

Gruden straight up running the team like a fantasy squad.

Honestly, not too disapppinted. Seemed to peak in 2016, and injuries have really hampered his ability to compete. We need contributors now.

His whole game is speed... if his knee is bum then he doesn't have his one asset. 

 

[Chadstroma]

JJN has never been able to stay healthy. He teases evaluators with that speed, but it doesn't due any good on the trainer's table. Hopefully Jay Zones and/or Trev Davis can fill in that role. Look for Gruyock to find a more credible Z receiver in free agency next year (or rd 1 of the draft if someone polished and pro-ready is there).

Zay doesn't have the speed to be like JJ Nelson but Davis does. 

 

[Chadstroma]

If we heal up and have spent the bye week wisely -- prepping extra for GB, installing plays and schemes to continue to leverage our run-to-set-up-the-pass O and our bend-don't-break-and-keep-you-in-games D...

...things could potentially turn out really nice given the Chiefs recent and ongoing woes and the Chargers getting thoroughly handled by the Steelers.

Chargers twice, Jets (though they look stronger as they heal too), CIN, TEN, and even JAC might be very winnable games for us.

The Donkeys are a mess and were never a concern. 

The Dolts are not a threat. I always thought they over achieved last year and this year their Oline is a mess. They are playing about what I thought they were really about. 

The Chefs are obviously still the favorite but have been shown to not be unbeatable. 

 

[Chaka]

Zay doesn't have the speed to be like JJ Nelson but Davis does. 

Who cares about speed? JJ Nelson was super-fast, tiny, had a limited route tree, arguably inconsistent hands and never performed as anything other than a "run in a straight line real fast player". No one game planned for him and he doesn't get doubled. He's the guy you dare offenses to beat you with.

Zay at least has demonstrated the potential to be a clean, consistent route runner with good hands who may be able to make contested plays. In a lot of ways he is similar to Amari, which is exactly what a Gruden offense needs. It doesn't need a JJ.  Let Tyrell be the clear out guy, he's much better at it than 10 JJ Nelson's and he has shown that he can be much more than that too (which Nelson clearly had not).

On paper it's a good acquisition in Zay and good cut in JJ. Davis is an afterthought.

 

[DocHolliday]

Surprising season so far with the rest of the division struggling.

I don't think anyone predicted 2nd place after six weeks.

It's nice.

Can't believe how average KC has looked lately and can't believe how bad the rest of the division is too.   Chargers are terrible.  

 

[kaso]

Packers week! Good news, the Raiders won't face the same officiating crew the Packers had last night!

Do we get Gabe back?  Seems to be trending that way
What kind of impact will Zay Jones be able to make?
Sounds like T. Williams is still limited with his foot injury.
Clelin has cleared the concussion protocol.

Let's go!

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

These next three weeks are defining ones in our schedule.

If we can improbably go 2-1, or say at least 1-3 with the win being over the Texans, that would really set up us nicely at 5-3 or 4-4. Let's be conservative and say we're .500 at that point.

I truly believe we will then have the momentum and spirit to then go 3-0 vs LAC, NYJ, and CIN, but let's say we get 2 wins from that stretch there to get to 6-5.

With final games against the Chiefs, Titans, Jags, Chargers, and Broncs, we can likely get 3 wins in that stretch, ending us 9-7, which would be both fantastic in terms of where I want this team to be...and a dark horse outside shot at a wildcard berth in a terrible AFC.

A man can dream....

 

[DocHolliday]

These next three weeks are defining ones in our schedule.

If we can improbably go 2-1, or say at least 1-3 with the win being over the Texans, that would really set up us nicely at 5-3 or 4-4. Let's be conservative and say we're .500 at that point.

I truly believe we will then have the momentum and spirit to then go 3-0 vs LAC, NYJ, and CIN, but let's say we get 2 wins from that stretch there to get to 6-5.

With final games against the Chiefs, Titans, Jags, Chargers, and Broncs, we can likely get 3 wins in that stretch, ending us 9-7, which would be both fantastic in terms of where I want this team to be...and a dark horse outside shot at a wildcard berth in a terrible AFC.

A man can dream....

You have me believing again so don't stop your dreaming now.   The Raiders should have wins against Chargers, Jets, Cincy, Titans, Chargers, and Donks.   The Jags and Lions can be beat but it's not likely.   Wins against against GB and Houston are very unlikely.  

The run game has been great but teams are going to be able to stack the box unless T Williams returns and Z Jones contributes some.  Should be an interesting few games coming up.   

 

[FreshiZ]

STC's fortitude is admirable. What if we could get AJ Green for cheap'ish (not contract but tradewise). I know we're in "rebuild" mode. but seems like such a nice fit and would really change the look of the offense.

 

[bombjack]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

ESPN: Raiders LT Trent Brown accused of domestic violence

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27858956/raiders-lt-trent-brown-accused-domestic-violence

 

[One]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

ESPN: Raiders LT Trent Brown accused of domestic violence

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27858956/raiders-lt-trent-brown-accused-domestic-violence

Geez,   He seems like the calmest guy in the world. 

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Never a dull moment.

Sigh.

 

[DocHolliday]

Never a dull moment.

Sigh.

Can we just have 1 normal week!

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Raiders sign Waller to extension through 2023.

Awesome to see Waller turn his entire life around, dedicate himself, and fully reap the rewards of that dedication, work, and performance.

We throw a lot of criticism at the Raiders and Gruden in here -- much of it deserved, some not so much -- because we're passionate fanatics who bleed Silver and Black.

But let's take a step back and appreciate both sides of this -- Waller for what he's achieved, and this team for doing the right thing and taking care of our guys who are stepping up for us and keeping them Raiders for the long term.

 

[Chadstroma]

Who cares about speed? JJ Nelson was super-fast, tiny, had a limited route tree, arguably inconsistent hands and never performed as anything other than a "run in a straight line real fast player". No one game planned for him and he doesn't get doubled. He's the guy you dare offenses to beat you with.

Zay at least has demonstrated the potential to be a clean, consistent route runner with good hands who may be able to make contested plays. In a lot of ways he is similar to Amari, which is exactly what a Gruden offense needs. It doesn't need a JJ.  Let Tyrell be the clear out guy, he's much better at it than 10 JJ Nelson's and he has shown that he can be much more than that too (which Nelson clearly had not).

On paper it's a good acquisition in Zay and good cut in JJ. Davis is an afterthought.

Well... that was unnecessary. 

All I was doing was replying to the comment Zay could fill JJ's spot. Different games entirely but yes Zay definitely has the talent. 

Davis csm fill the burner role that JJ was meant to.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Cross posting from @Fear The Turtle from the Lazard thread

Packers Practice Today!!!

"Only four active roster wideouts at practice — Allen Lazard, Jake Kumerow, Darrius Shepherd and Ryan Grant. And Grant was just signed yesterday. 

On one hand, with Grant on their squad, GB has a really good insight into our playbook and approach. And Lazard looked beastly and should be respected.

On the other hand, with a subpar WR squad (throwing rocks and glass houses notwithstanding), if we can step up/hold our solid run offense (we're 10th overall on least rush yards allowed per game) and actually find a way of pressuring Rodgers (who isn't great in terms of mobility), I feel really good about our ability to compete.

 

[kaso]

My random thoughts post-Green Bay...

Ouch.

That was a tough game to watch start to finish.   Aaron Rodgers is so special.  And after a decent nights sleep I'm putting this loss on the schedule more than the team itself.  Traveling to Green Bay isn't going to be easy on any team this year.   Rodgers and LeFluer have started to click.  That throw to Aaron Jones, and the adjustment by Jones was amazing.   But after given credit where credit is due to Rodgers and the Packers, the Raiders did little to show or justify the loss isn't on them as well.

The injury to Tyrell Williams has me worried.   Raiders really need him back in the line up.  I think it's now been 2 weeks of no practices for him.  

I was disappointed to see Zay Jones as a healthy scratch.   Even if he knows 5% of the playbook the Raiders needed the help and him on the field.

At risk of starting an anti-Carr movement in this thread, he simply needs to play better.  The fumble at the goal line (again!!!) cannot happen.   I get that it is his competitive drive that makes him play that way, and his recognition that 7 points are needed at that point in the game.  But come on.  It wasn't 4th down.  Get out of bounds and onto the next play.

I do enjoy the game that Gruden calls, but I'm not sure it can win games or come back in games where the scoring needs to be dynamic and fast passed - against teams like Green Bay, KC, the Rams, or Vikings (when Cousins is on).  Gruden is still better than any coach we've had in a loooooong time, but I'd like to see more explosion.  Maybe this is a symptom of missing key pieces at WR.  Never the less, until that changes the Raiders are at a disadvantage.

The Raiders need a LB.  Maybe 5.

Conley played surprisingly poorly today.

The OPI call on Trevor Davis was simply horrible.  On the field, I think the ref got tricked by seeing the DB slip when attempting to cut back down the field.  The review processes provided further proof that the League is measuring PI differently during the game than during a review.   

The continued lack of pass rush is concerning.  Clelin is almost invisible, and seemingly following the short career path of Arden Key.  Maxx Crosby has shown promise. (Spare me the Mack trade talk please. This is a bigger issue than one player).

Even with a bunch of disappointment today, I'm still thrilled with the draft class and FA group that Gruden and Mayock have pulled together.   

On to the next one.

 

[kaso]

I took a moment to look briefly into the schedule the Raiders have had so far this year, it hasn't been pretty!

2 'true' home games where they went 1-1 against KC and Denver.
3 North American road games where they went 1-2 against Minnesota, Indianapolis, and Green Bay
1 International game where they beat the Bears.

Their opponents to date adjusted (removing all Raider games) collective record is 22-12 (0.647)
The teams they have beat have a collective record of 9-10 (0.474)
The teams they have lost to have a collective record of 16-5 (0.762)

The remaining opponents have a current collective record of 24-42-1 (0.366).  Houston and KC are the only teams remaining above .500.

In comparison, the Buffalo Bills who currently sit at 5-1 have had a cake walk of a schedule:

• Opponents to date 12-26 (0.316)
  
• Teams they have beat have a collective record of 6-26 (0.188)
  
• The adjusted opponents record is 11-21 (0.344), which includes the 5 wins from NE. 
  

 

[Hankmoody]

Conley has been horrible.  As a raging Buckeye fan I wanted him to be good so badly, but deep down I felt like maybe he was overrated and this would happen.  Put Aaron Rodgers on the field with a bad secondary and it's irrelevant who his receivers are.  I've seen precious little of the team this year, how has Mullen looked?

BS on the schedule.  This was coming out of a bye week and one of our shorter trips.  Carr played decently.  Jacobs is for real and this could have been a kill-them-slowly game grinding out clock and possessions while putting up 24 points.  But that secondary keeps getting exposed by good QB's and in the NFL until you can solve that you are dead in the water.  Who cares what we do against Mitchell Trubisky and Joe Flaccoo?  If we ever want to get back into the playoffs those aren't the QB's we're going to see. 

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

We looked like Raiders of old yesterday on D -- missing first and even second tackles all over the secondary.

Rodgers in peak form, as he was yesterday, is hard to beat period. But we absolutely helped that effort in giving up big gains on 3rd downs, letting receivers get open with man coverage, and not providing good ball support and making the first tackle count. 

Carr had his own contributions with the bad fumble and clutch INT, but the game plan was solid. We just didn't execute when it mattered, and our D was way too porous.

I fear we are missing too many people on D at all levels -- Dline, LB, secondary -- to make us truly compete as a playoff-ready squad. And we need our WRs to step up.

 

[dcgangstas]

We looked like Raiders of old yesterday on D -- missing first and even second tackles all over the secondary.

Rodgers in peak form, as he was yesterday, is hard to beat period. But we absolutely helped that effort in giving up big gains on 3rd downs, letting receivers get open with man coverage, and not providing good ball support and making the first tackle count. 

Carr had his own contributions with the bad fumble and clutch INT, but the game plan was solid. We just didn't execute when it mattered, and our D was way too porous.

I fear we are missing too many people on D at all levels -- Dline, LB, secondary -- to make us truly compete as a playoff-ready squad. And we need our WRs to step up.

Good assessment, Tom. 

Gareon Conley is just terrible;  the guy can't tackle to save his life.   

The thing that really drives me nuts is the Carr fumble;  he did exactly the same thing losing the ball when he dove at the pylon 2 years ago.    

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

The thing that really drives me nuts is the Carr fumble;  he did exactly the same thing losing the ball when he dove at the pylon 2 years ago.    

Yes, he should know better. In that space of time (miliseconds, trying to get a score that could swing the game), I understand it, but not excuse it. He should have known better.

That said, at the very least it shined -- yet again -- light on the stupidity of this rule.

Fumble out of bounds anywhere else on the field and the ball is returned to the offense at the spot where the ball goes out of bounds.

Fumbling in the opponent's end zone is impossible -- if a player has possession and the ball breaks the plane, even if possession or breaking the plane happens for a millisecond, it's a TD.

BUT fumbling in the field of play when the ball crosses the goal line before going out of bounds?  It's a turnover, with the opposing team getting a touchback with the ball at its own 25-yard line.

It is absurdly punitive as it removes expected points AND gives the ball back to the opposing team. 

If Carr wasn't deemed in possession of the ball when he broke the plane with the ball, then rule it like you do any other fumble in the field of play -- return it to the offense on the goal/1 yard line. If you want to punish the team for losing the ball, OK - while it contradicts the other out-of-bound-fumble rule, then give it to the opposing team at their own goal/1 yard line.

Lots of other ways to approach this as well. As it stands, I just don't think the rule is either consistent, or (even with my bias removed) fair in terms of being overly punitive.

 

[Moonshine]

See ya Conley 

https://twitter.com/VicTafur/status/1186355917761196033?s=20

Breaking: #Raiders traded CB Gareon Conley to the #Texans for a 3rd round pick, sources said.

 

[kaso]

See ya Conley 

https://twitter.com/VicTafur/status/1186355917761196033?s=20

So... Do you think he travels with Oakland to Houston this weekend, but just stays there?  ha!

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

See ya Conley 

https://twitter.com/VicTafur/status/1186355917761196033?s=20

Surprising -- not that Conley was developing into a dependable piece of this D, but we are really thin at the position already -- talent and bodywise.

Worley is surprising me, playing better than not, but for me jury is still out on Mullen, Nixon, and Lawson, and even Worley is still relatively uneven.

Are we going to look to fill depth in FA? If so, where? Not really aware of current FAs out there who would be great or us to target.

Wonder if we are making a play for another player and are giving up a 1st and 3rd, with this trade helping us regain our 3rd.

ETA: if they are making a play for another guy, I guess I wouldn't necessarily limit the imagination to them seeking a replacement for Conley as opposed to acquiring another position.

 

[kaso]

Surprising -- not that Conley was developing into a dependable piece of this D, but we are really thin at the position already -- talent and bodywise.

Worley is surprising me, playing better than not, but for me jury is still out on Mullen, Nixon, and Lawson, and even Worley is still relatively uneven.

Are we going to look to fill depth in FA? If so, where? Not really aware of current FAs out there who would be great or us to target.

Wonder if we are making a play for another player and are giving up a 1st and 3rd, with this trade helping us regain our 3rd.

I think Mayock and Gruden really like Mullen and Lawson.  And that they feel the delta in on the field production between current-Conley in a Guenther system vs. either of those two aren't worth a.) sticking with Conley, or b.) resigning him as this 5th year approaches.   Pull a 3rd pick out instead of straight losing him.  And open the roster spot.

But... making a play for a bigger name and need the extra 3... well geez, now you have my mind racing on possibilities!