***Official 2020 Election General*** (1 Viewer)

[gianmarco]

Now seeing reports of an upcoming hearing in a couple of hours where the US Postal Service is going to announce 300,000 undelivered ballots to counting stations. There are literally dozens of states where ballots which haven't arrived by election day are rejected by law.

This is a complete poo show.

This was shown to be in play for a while now. If these are legit attempts to tamper with an election by officials, they should see lengthy prison time.

 

[bagger]

Joe Biden will win the popular vote...by a LOT. Way more than 2016, it looks like. Already 2.5 million ahead and California, New York and Massachusetts haven’t  even been counted yet. 

As a Biden voter, who cares.
 

Its like bragging how many more first downs you got in a game. That’s not the metric as to how the game is decided. It certainly helps, but not how we judge the victor.

 

[Zow]

And if you don't get a continuance, you should strenuously object.

Oh is that how it works?

 

[Soulfly3]

MUST READ THIS THREAD ON MISSING BALLOTS. INSANE

It's really not helpful to be copying posts from random people on Twitter, especially when the posts do not contain links to actual news reports.

sorry, linked it here, in a seperate post.

 

[Ilov80s]

This was shown to be in play for a while now. If these are legit attempts to tamper with an election by officials, they should see lengthy prison time.

I never really got why people would vote by mail unless they lived outside of their State of residence. Just drop the ballot off at a drop box. 

 

[HellToupee]

400k votes still to be counted in AZ

 

[Waingro]

@LiamWBZ

This is just incredible. In Atlanta, which will go a long way toward determining the outcome of Georgia, USPS failed to deliver a substantial number of mail-in ballots. Thousands and thousands of ballots.

In South Florida, the USPS failed to deliver ~27 percent of the mail ballots.

In Florida, Michigan and Wisconsin, ballots that arrive after Election Day are not counted, regardless of when they were post-marked. Pennsylvania *might* accept ballots up to three days after the election, but the Supreme Court *could* revisit that in the coming days.

Jeez, what a mess. 

 

[bagger]

Irregularities in voting is something either side will latch onto if they lose. That's the issue.  Both sides are scrambling to find anything that will support their claim the voting wasn't fair. 

I have not heard this from both sides. Only one.

 

[HellToupee]

This was shown to be in play for a while now. If these are legit attempts to tamper with an election by officials, they should see lengthy prison time.

What about incompetence 

 

[Capella]

It's being reported that in South Florida 27% of mail in ballots weren't returned by the USPS to counting stations on time.

Well that doesn’t have anything to do with how the state runs things. But yea, that would be awful if true. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

As a Biden voter, who cares.
 

Its like bragging how many more first downs you got in a game. That’s not the metric as to how the game is decided. It certainly helps, but not how we judge the victor.

In my opinion, this point is one of the biggest differentiators in how people see things. 

I see benefits to both kinds of people but there are stark differences in the two groups. 

 

[Moe.]

Isn't Phoenix in Maricopa? 

Yes. Biden has a 6pt lead there so far. It looks like an insurmountable lead to me. 

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Oh is that how it works?

Yes and then when your overruled, shout "exception".

Are you sure you're lawyer?

 

[parasaurolophus]

Oh is that how it works?

At least get it on the record. 

 

[The Commish]

We already know that every election has 3-4% of the ballots nullified/thrown out for various reasons (not being delivered on time, sigs don't match, I's not dotted, Ts not crossed etc).  No one says a word about it.  Now it matters?

 

[bagger]

What about incompetence 

Prison time as well IMO.

 

[Zow]

Isn't Phoenix in Maricopa? 

Yes. Maricopa is by far the most populated county. Phoenix, Mesa, Scottsdale, Chandler, and Gilbert plus some northwestern suburbs. 

 

[shader]

Isn't Phoenix in Maricopa? 

The claim from the right is that most of the outstanding AZ votes are election day votes, which would potentially favor Trump.  I have no idea if that's accurate though.

 

[timschochet]

Irregularities in voting is something either side will latch onto if they lose. That's the issue.  Both sides are scrambling to find anything that will support their claim the voting wasn't fair. 

Seahawk fans still think they were robbed against Pittsburgh in the Super Bowl. 

 

[GroveDiesel]

Could be.  I read that she’d been booted for the tweet that was quoted in here last night.

yep, she’s still on there.  My bad

That makes more sense as her tweet didn’t seem THAT awful to me (she said if Trump wins it’s all white people’s fault). Not an excellent thing to say, but not exactly super egregious either.

Joy Reid’s comments last night (not on Twitter) calling Clarence Thomas “Uncle Thomas” seem far more egregious.

 

[Steve Tasker]

So in wading into the far-right conspiratorial side of things to see what they are saying (As trump clearly listens to them) there was a data dump in Michigan that occurred at some point.  People have screen shots etc.  Apparently there was a batch of 130k votes (something along those lines) that came in, and every single vote was for Biden.  So Biden's numbers went up in one update and Trump's didn't move.  This is feeding a conspiracy, and Trump alluded to it in a tweet.

I mean, Trump fueling a conspiracy theory claiming the election is tainted is about the most obvious outcome of this entire thing . Many of us have been calling this shot for years now.

 

[Ilov80s]

The claim from the right is that most of the outstanding AZ votes are election day votes, which would potentially favor Trump.  I have no idea if that's accurate though.

Would be interesting for Trump team to know that but not Fox News

 

[bagger]

In my opinion, this point is one of the biggest differentiators in how people see things. 

I see benefits to both kinds of people but there are stark differences in the two groups. 

I mean it is an interesting discussion with respect to is the electoral college equitable in determining a winner, but that’s not really pertinent in the middle of the election.

To continue my football analogy, maybe the PI rule is horrific and needs to be changed, but that is something you solve for in the off-season. On gameday you have to understand how you win and game plan accordingly.

 

[timschochet]

As a Biden voter, who cares.
 

Its like bragging how many more first downs you got in a game. That’s not the metric as to how the game is decided. It certainly helps, but not how we judge the victor.

As someone pointed out on the news, if Biden is the winner it helps with perceived legitimacy. 

 

[Rich Conway]

Florida seems to do elections better than anybody? We will forever be made fun of for 2000 but I mail-in voted a few weeks ago and it showed up as counted on the elections website on October 12th. What could be easier? 

It's being reported that in South Florida 27% of mail in ballots weren't returned by the USPS to counting stations on time.

In fairness, USPS is not a state-level agency.

 

[lakerstan]

We could have but State laws did not let Michigan count ahead of time. So these hundreds of thousands of early votes have to be processed just like as if the person was voting in person. Their ID has to be checked, signature and all that before it is ran in the computer. It takes time. 

He’s got the British accent....  Buy me an Oompa Loompa NOW, Daddy!  
 

 

[Ilov80s]

I mean, Trump fueling a conspiracy theory claiming the election is tainted is about the most obvious outcome of this entire thing . Many of us have been calling this shot for years now.

I mean he said that about 2016 up until he won. 

 

[JAA]

Nah, we’re done

What are you basing this on?

 

[shader]

I think back to a NYT podcast I listened to a month or so ago.  He said that one of the things that people don't talk about much, is that an election really only ends when one side concedes.  As Commish said a few posts up, every election has a percentage of votes thrown out, etc.  Even in the Gore/Bush fiasco, it didn't really end until Gore stopped it.  He could have fought on.

So in this scenario, where it appears that neither side will concede, it's unchartered territory.  

 

[Weebs210]

What are you basing this on?

His gut feeling. He may want to try to use the restroom

 

[Soulfly3]

BREAKING: Republican John James leading Democrat Gary Peters 49.4% to 48.7% in Michigan's U.S. Senate race with 87% of precincts reporting. Per Detroit News

 

[Zow]

The claim from the right is that most of the outstanding AZ votes are election day votes, which would potentially favor Trump.  I have no idea if that's accurate though.

I don't disagree. AZ was able to collect and count ahead of time. 

Local news was talking about a significant turnout of the latino vote in Maricopa though so I don't know that it favors Trump.

 

[dgreen]

Can we get a link to whatever site people are using for the most up-to-date numbers? I've just been using Google, but that seems behind what some of you are posting.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I mean it is an interesting discussion with respect to is the electoral college equitable in determining a winner, but that’s not really pertinent I that middle of the election.

To continue my football analogy, maybe the PI rule is horrific and needs to be changed, but that is something you solve for in the off-season. On gameday you have to understand how you win and game plan accordingly.

Yup.

I see the stark differences in how people look at the world. The "popular vote" folks see it as more fair and idealistic and noble. 

The "electoral college" people see it as practical, bottom line and realistic. 

Both are good. 

But it's a fundamental differnece.

I'm a zillion times more in the latter. If I were to manage anything, first thing I ask is: 

What does a "win" look like?

What are the rules?

How can we best put our resources in play to do everything we can within the rules to win?

I don't care or question for one second if the rules are fair. That's not my objective. 

Now I fully understand people who DO care about if the rules are fair. I admire that. It's just not how I'm wired. Which is not necessarily a good thing. 

But it's a VERY clear distinguishing factor for how people think about the world. 

 

[JAA]

Now seeing reports of an upcoming hearing in a couple of hours where the US Postal Service is going to announce 300,000 undelivered ballots to counting stations. There are literally dozens of states where ballots which haven't arrived by election day are rejected by law.

This is a complete poo show.

You posted 100% confidence level

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Can we get a link to whatever site people are using for the most up-to-date numbers? I've just been using Google, but that seems behind what some of you are posting.

LINK

 

[Doug B]

In South Florida, the USPS failed to deliver ~27 percent of the mail ballots.

I wonder if (1) this info is unassailably legit, and (2) if so, this truly explains what happened in Miami-Dade**.

Not buying the "Cuban-Americans ALL went Trump" explanation.

** 2016 Clinton won the county by 29%. 2020 Biden is ahead by 7% to date.

 

[lakerstan]

Can we get a link to whatever site people are using for the most up-to-date numbers? I've just been using Google, but that seems behind what some of you are posting.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/forecast-uncounted-votes-president.html?action=click&pgtype=Article&state=default&module=styln-elections-2020&region=TOP_BANNER&context=storyline_menu_recirc

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Well that doesn’t have anything to do with how the state runs things. But yea, that would be awful if true. 

In fairness, USPS is not a state-level agency.

You're both no doubt right, I guess I was just adding that antidote to the discussion. The only thing Florida or any state could have done to fend off this possibility would be to make the postmark deadline something that ensures even the USPS can get it there on time. But then that forces people to decide perhaps too far in advance of election day.

I guess all I'm really saying in that our whole process needs a rebuild.

 

[shader]

I wonder if (1) this info is unassailably legit, and (2) if so, this truly explains what happened in Miami-Dade**.

Not buying the "Cuban-Americans ALL went Trump" explanation.

** 2016 Clinton won the county by 22%. 2020 Biden is ahead by 7% to date.

If people are honest, they will accept possibilities on all sides.

As an example, D's can't ridicule R's for looking into what they feel are irregularities in Michigan, but then start discussing irregularities in Florida.  Creeping into "the other side is committing fraud but their claims that we are committing fraud are conspiracy theories."

 

[timschochet]

Yup.

I see the stark differences in how people look at the world. The "popular vote" folks see it as more fair and idealistic and noble. 

The "electoral college" people see it as practical, bottom line and realistic. 

Both are good. 

But it's a fundamental differnece.

I'm a zillion times more in the latter. If I were to manage anything, first thing I ask is: 

What does a "win" look like?

What are the rules?

How can we best put our resources in play to do everything we can within the rules to win?

I don't care or question for one second if the rules are fair. That's not my objective. 

Now I fully understand people who DO care about if the rules are fair. I admire that. It's just not how I'm wired. Which is not necessarily a good thing. 

But it's a VERY clear distinguishing factor for how people think about the world. 

I guess I’m an outlier to this. I think of the world as fair and noble (mostly) but I love the electoral  college. I’d never get rid of it. 

 

[Capella]

You're both no doubt right, I guess I was just adding that antidote to the discussion. The only thing Florida or any state could have done to fend off this possibility would be to make the postmark deadline something that ensures even the USPS can get it there on time. But then that forces people to decide perhaps too far in advance of election day.

I guess all I'm really saying in that our whole process needs a rebuild.

Oh I totally agree. Broken system all the way around. 

 

[dgreen]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/forecast-uncounted-votes-president.html?action=click&pgtype=Article&state=default&module=styln-elections-2020&region=TOP_BANNER&context=storyline_menu_recirc

Subscription required?

 

[Doug B]

It's really not helpful to be copying posts from random people on Twitter, especially when the posts do not contain links to actual news reports.

Here's a bunch of links -- mainstream media is picking it up now. Don't know if those Twitter shots of the Excel sheets are legit, but there's a metric schmidt-ton of smoke right now.

 

[lakerstan]

Subscription required?

Hmm I’m having no issues with it.  I don’t have a subscription.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

You posted 100% confidence level

Late arriving mail in votes wouldn't favor Trump. If anything these potentially uncounted mail in votes will prevent Biden from winning more convincingly. The failure of the USPS doesn't change my confidence level that Biden won.

 

[jm192]

As a Biden voter, who cares.
 

Its like bragging how many more first downs you got in a game. That’s not the metric as to how the game is decided. It certainly helps, but not how we judge the victor.

This.  

 

[Biff84]

The AP calling Arizona is interesting. Fox doing it or any other network, sure, but the AP is usually conservative on their calls.

 

[GroveDiesel]

sorry, linked it here, in a seperate post.

As a follow up to that tweet chain: yesterday a federal judge ordered the USPS to do a sweep of 12 postal districts by 4pm. The USPS refused and simply ignored the order.

ETA: I guess that’s already covered in my the tweets. The hearing today is about why the USPS did not comply. 

 

[timschochet]

If people are honest, they will accept possibilities on all sides.

As an example, D's can't ridicule R's for looking into what they feel are irregularities in Michigan, but then start discussing irregularities in Florida.  Creeping into "the other side is committing fraud but their claims that we are committing fraud are conspiracy theories."

Or we can honestly NOT accept possibilities on all sides. 
I generally reject conspiracy theories from left and right, especially when they’re based on suspicion without evidence.