***Official*** Amazon Rings of Power Thread (2 Viewers)

[Buckna]

Funny that IMDB has almost 25% rating this as a "1". Even if you deplore everything else about it, production values alone have to push this beyond a 1, don't they?

Probably the same incels who put together memes like this one --> https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/official-amazon-rings-of-power-thread.805909/post-24168923

Wow, reading that just hurts to read. Are fanboys and other guys that insecure that they can’t imagine Galadriel as a hero? I disagree with Musk’s tweet but damn there are a lot of white males who are truly pathetic.

The strange thing is that The Silmarillion original actually DOES portray her as the hero who got her people through some tough ordeals.

Just from the LOTR movies, she’s portrayed as a strong leader. Not a stretch to think she learned a few things and is a good fighter.

They had her (Cate Blanchet version) using a sword in the last Hobbit movie as well fighting against the “Necromancer.”

 

[stbugs]

Funny that IMDB has almost 25% rating this as a "1". Even if you deplore everything else about it, production values alone have to push this beyond a 1, don't they?

Probably the same incels who put together memes like this one --> https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/official-amazon-rings-of-power-thread.805909/post-24168923

Wow, reading that just hurts to read. Are fanboys and other guys that insecure that they can’t imagine Galadriel as a hero? I disagree with Musk’s tweet but damn there are a lot of white males who are truly pathetic.

The strange thing is that The Silmarillion original actually DOES portray her as the hero who got her people through some tough ordeals.

Just from the LOTR movies, she’s portrayed as a strong leader. Not a stretch to think she learned a few things and is a good fighter.

They had her (Cate Blanchet version) using a sword in the last Hobbit movie as well fighting against the “Necromancer.”

Well, she was just helping her male friends so that’s OK. I consider myself a good old fashioned man, but dang the misogyny and racial replies to this show (and racial replies to House of the Dragons) is really pathetic.

 

[That one guy]

Rings Of Power and NFL season all in one month?!? I should go back and reread all the non-LOTR/Hobbit material again; the Silmarillion being my absolute favorite of his works (have a 1st edition copy of it on the bookshelf, a most prized possession…precious one might say)

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

I have to be the dissenting opinion here. This show is just hilariously bad to me. I gave it a chance because it could be just a good show, because I knew they weren't following the lore even a little bit. So went in hoping we would get an entertaining show with Tolkien's world and barest bit of lore grafted on it. Oh man I was not ready for this show's dialogue to be just comically bad and the sheer number of nonsensical actions by characters just takes me out of the show. Just a bunch of writers trying to sound highbrow with no idea how to do it. Like the beginning 5 minutes of the show. Galadriel is narrating and says something to the effect of "We thought our days of Joy would go on forever" despite the fact that Elvish Childern in Valinor, the Elvish Heaven on Earth, will bully each other pretty viciously and this will lead to a physical fight. Girl Galadriel had a balled-up fist holding the other kid down and getting ready to pound him but is only stopped by her older brother. And the brother Finrod implies this is a situation that happens alot, at least to Galadriel? Ok so bullying is just a part of Heaven I guess, bliss for days on end. Then the whole rocks don't float because they look down to the darkness, but boats float because they look to the light speech by Finrod. What in holy nonsense is this Batman? I thought we had stumbled into a lost scene of some Monty Python movie. Then we get to the Altar with Sauron's sigil on it. The altar causes snowflakes to turn into steam on contact, but you pour water on the altar and the water freezes. OK, but even better the sigil is a sign to Orcs on where to gather for Sauron, so it's a map? A symbol of some known place? But it is also a symbol Orcs brand on their dead enemies so the Orcs have known what the symbol was for a long time, long before they were in exile and would need a symbol to find Sauron? Finrod was killed by the Orcs when they were following Morgoth not Sauron, yet they still branded Finrod with Sauron's sigil? So I am confused as to what that is all about. Then the Elven party deserts Galadriel, or just refuse to take her orders anymore despite her being the Commander of the Northern Army? Ok no real chain of command here in the Elvish army because all these deserters get a trip back to Valinor for directly disobeying their commander. And they desert after they find hard evidence of the existence of Sauron, the guy they have been searching for for CENTURIES! Nah, we met one snow troll we gone Galadriel. They form a circle around her and symbolically lay down their swords and walk away from her. Did they just leave their swords there? While in an evil fortress? What if there is another snow troll? After the dramatic scene do they later slink back and pick up their swords? I mean there could be another snow troll in that fortress you plan on staying in overnight. Of course Galadriel is the only one in the party capable of fighting so maybe they figure better to climb down the mountain without having to carry a sword. And it just keeps going scene after scene into episode two. At one point one Elf says to another Elf "you smell like rotting leaves" and the Elf's retort is basically DO NOT! And one of these Elves is carrying a bow without a string and no quiver with arrows. And these are supposed to be Tolkien Elves? Really? Tonally it is just weird. And then the Harfoots, oh boy. At one point one of them, I think it is Nori's father, is walking around with just a stick in his hair. Not leaves, not flowers, just a plain old stick. Do they just never bathe, comb their hair, or clean their clothes? I get flowers and leaves in their hair if they are like nature people, but just a plain old stick? It was just so jarring even in with the fauna all the rest of them had in their hair. Again, I thought these character designs could be straight out of a Monty Python movie. And the Harfoot astronomer guy has mutton chops that make him look like a Civil War general glued onto his face. The Harfoots are some kind of intersection of a gypsy tribe, hippy commune, and faerie troop. Just such a strange vibe for a show supposedly based on Tolkien's books.
And then we get to the lore. Basically what we get from Tolkien is a Map, character names, and the broadest outline of a plot. That being Morgoth is defeated but Sauron, his first servant, takes up his fight and eventually forges some rings of power that sets up the Lord of the Rings events. Amazon only has rights to the appendices of the Lord of the Rings books and cannot draw from the Silmarillion, The Hobbit, or the Lord of the Rings books. So they basically paid to get the naming rights so they could draw people based on the reputation of the Lord of the Rings books and movies, because what they paid for doesn't give them access to a lot of the lore in the time period the show is set in. The Lord of the Rings movies chopped a lot of plot, traded lines between characters, and what not to make it all fit into a movie format. Understandable, but the spirit of characters was kept, and it captured the feel of the world really well. Rings of Power just mangles everything. For instance, Galadriel never picks up a sword and never leads an army in the original work. She is naturally a highly magical being and this is further enhanced by being taught magic by the most powerful sorceress of time period in which the Rings of Power is taking place. She wants a land of her own to rule. At this point in time in the books she cannot return to Valinor because she and all the Noldor Elves are banned from returning to Valinor for a long list of reasons. So having Gil Galad sending Elves back to Valinor as a reward ignores all the lore of the world because at this point in time Gil Galad himself could not return to Valinor, let alone grant other elves passage. The events surrounding the banning of the Noldor and the consequences of that help explain why Sauron is such a threat to Middle Earth. But no we aren't going near even the spirit of the books.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

Funny that IMDB has almost 25% rating this as a "1". Even if you deplore everything else about it, production values alone have to push this beyond a 1, don't they?

Probably the same incels who put together memes like this one --> https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/official-amazon-rings-of-power-thread.805909/post-24168923

Wow, reading that just hurts to read. Are fanboys and other guys that insecure that they can’t imagine Galadriel as a hero? I disagree with Musk’s tweet but damn there are a lot of white males who are truly pathetic.

The strange thing is that The Silmarillion original actually DOES portray her as the hero who got her people through some tough ordeals.

Just from the LOTR movies, she’s portrayed as a strong leader. Not a stretch to think she learned a few things and is a good fighter.

They had her (Cate Blanchet version) using a sword in the last Hobbit movie as well fighting against the “Necromancer.”

No you are misremembering this fight. Galadriel frees Gandalf and begins to heal him, the nine Nazgul show up and surround her and Gandalf. But then Elrond and Saruman show up and fight the Nazgul while Galadriel continues to heal Gandalf. Radaghast and his bunnies show up and Galadriel has him take Gandalf away to safety. In the meantime, Saruman and Elrond fight off the Nazgul, apparently at least temporarily, destroying their bodies. Then Sauron shows himself, scaring both Elrond and Saruman, but Galadriel draws herself up to full power and blasts Sauron with her power until he is overcome and flees to the East. Then Galadriel collapses with all the strength she has expended. Saruman bids Elrond to take Galadriel back to home and vows to chase Sauron. Elrond fights with his sword, Saruman with his staff, and Galadriel with the light of Elindel, the magical item she gives to Frodo in the Lord of the Rings. Galadriel never fights with a sword.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

saw the two episodes last night, I'm in. as someone who don't read books, the storyline looks intriguing enough. But I have a question regarding some events that already happened, hiding it in as spoiler tag here, would appreciate a yes/no answer if this is in the books or anyone knows more about this.

Spoiler: Read question here please...

The whole elves going home scene on the boat... so these are their elite soldiers and they get to go "home." the boat scene i thought was weird until I realized it's some kind of a ritual. Whatever that place was they were suppose to go, in real world terms that looks like these soldiers are sent to die from this world and move on to the next, but the death is really like a heaven for them as far as they know. So, the question is, does the storyline expand on this event more later, or was that all there is? If that is all there is then I can do my own google search and learn more about it rather than ruining it for other here. but if there is more coming potentially in this series because that's a major part of the story, then I'd rather wait and be entertained to learn the events in the story.

tia.

The concept of sailing to Heaven, also known as Valinor, is in the books. In the books if an elf "dies" i.e. has their body destroyed, their soul goes to the Hall of Mandos in Valinor to await a reincarnation at a future time. Only live Elves, and certain other special people sail to Valinor. In the books it isn't really a reward more of a retirement, or a go to rest concept. How the show is going to expand on this if at all is unknown, but we can assume the Elves in the show didn't die, they passed through the magical veil that shrouds Valinor from the rest of the world.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

**** just got SERIOUS.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

Funny that IMDB has almost 25% rating this as a "1". Even if you deplore everything else about it, production values alone have to push this beyond a 1, don't they?

Probably the same incels who put together memes like this one --> https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/official-amazon-rings-of-power-thread.805909/post-24168923

Wow, reading that just hurts to read. Are fanboys and other guys that insecure that they can’t imagine Galadriel as a hero? I disagree with Musk’s tweet but damn there are a lot of white males who are truly pathetic.

The strange thing is that The Silmarillion original actually DOES portray her as the hero who got her people through some tough ordeals.

Just from the LOTR movies, she’s portrayed as a strong leader. Not a stretch to think she learned a few things and is a good fighter.

She is more than a good leader. She is probably the second or third most powerful good being in Middle Earth by the Lord of the Rings time period. Her magic is wizard level power and she has powers of future sight, mind reading, and some sort of power that lets her see and communicate over great distances. She basically would never need a sword. I would much rather see that version of her, or her growth into that than the Male better than a Male version. Oh and she, sorry probably not go there as what I was going to say would be a spoiler for the show.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

And I am so in, unless this turns into a boring mess. 2 hours into this show and I think I was laughing for like one whole hour of it, and it would of been more if I hadn't taken the first ten minutes for me to lose a sense of taking what was happening on screen seriously. This version of Numenor should just be a hoot. The one thing that is intriguing and done well was the healer ladies son. Although where he ends up is just telegraphed. But man we got a lot of ground to cover and only 5 seasons and a Billion dollars to do it. Let's Ride Tolkien Country.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

My rating would be 3.5 stars out of ten.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Amazon only has rights to the appendices of the Lord of the Rings books and cannot draw from the Silmarillion, The Hobbit, or the Lord of the Rings books. So they basically paid to get the naming rights so they could draw people based on the reputation of the Lord of the Rings books and movies, because what they paid for doesn't give them access to a lot of the lore in the time period the show is set in.

I didn't know about this part and it seems really strange to me. How is that possibly enforceable that Tolkein's estate or whoever owns the Silmarillion rights could say something Amazon puts in the shows is outside the scope of the LOTR appendices? I don't have your level of recall of the lore, but if what you say is correct then it seems obvious the Amazon writers are going to have to create story lines and character arcs that go well outside the Tolkien cannon.

 

[Psychopav]

Another solid episode imo. Maybe the best of the three. I'm certainly excited to see next week's installment.

 

[Psychopav]

Spot on review. I'm not exactly ready to crown their *** but am cautiously optimistic. The show has delivered thus far and I'm eagerly anticipating the next installment.

The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power - Episode 3 Review - IGN

The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power introduces a key character and digs deeper into Tolkien’s mythology while delivering plenty of action and visual spectacle to balance out the worldbuilding.

www.ign.com

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

Amazon only has rights to the appendices of the Lord of the Rings books and cannot draw from the Silmarillion, The Hobbit, or the Lord of the Rings books. So they basically paid to get the naming rights so they could draw people based on the reputation of the Lord of the Rings books and movies, because what they paid for doesn't give them access to a lot of the lore in the time period the show is set in.

I didn't know about this part and it seems really strange to me. How is that possibly enforceable that Tolkein's estate or whoever owns the Silmarillion rights could say something Amazon puts in the shows is outside the scope of the LOTR appendices? I don't have your level of recall of the lore, but if what you say is correct then it seems obvious the Amazon writers are going to have to create story lines and character arcs that go well outside the Tolkien cannon.

I have heard it reported many times and a simple google search will confirm it, Amazon paid only for the appendices of LOTR. If you knew Tolkein lore and seriously wanted to make a show that told the story of the making of the Rings of Power why would you hamstring yourself in this way? Why would you choose to do this part of lore, which is the least fleshed out? The answer is you wouldn't if you were smart. I don't believe Amazon is stupid so there must be a different, rational reason. To me this much more sounds like Amazon bought in the cheapest they could so they could have access to the IP and didn't give two hoots what the show itself was like or what lengths they would have to go to to fill in the cracks. They bought name recognition for the fantasy show they wanted to make.
If you watch the producer's San Diego Comic Con interview with Stephen Colbert they go into it a little bit. For instance the Harfoots are called Harfoots because the Amazon does not license to have Hobbits in the show. It is comical the lengths the producers go to to stress that Harfoots are not Hobbits in the Comic Con interview. The producer McKay catches himself saying Hobbits once and then quickly corrects himself. So yes the show is limited which is why I said I went into the show not expecting a lot of exact Tolkien lore but hoping it would keep the spirit of Tolkien.

 

[El Floppo]

Loving the first three eps.

 

[That one guy]

Harfoots are an actual type of hobbit, predecessor/ancestor to our more famous Shire hobbits? They’re mentioned in the prologue to Fellowship Of The Ring. How can they use the name Harfoot but not Hobbit?

 

[Psychopav]

Harfoots are an actual type of hobbit, predecessor/ancestor to our more famous Shire hobbits? They’re mentioned in the prologue to Fellowship Of The Ring. How can they use the name Harfoot but not Hobbit?

I don't think they are hobbits but to your point a precursor.

@Hot Diggity Dog I am fine with what they bought. They have more poetic license with the less fleshed out appendices. They have lots of room to world build when there are more gaps. They have a template and some rough boundaries. I don't care about black elves or bearded dwarven women, I understand the decision to compress the timelines so that familiar characters are able to be there for the entire run of the show.

As long as they stay true to the themes and the ethos, I will be happy with their efforts and enjoy the ride. Is it Lord of the Rings? No, and I don't expect it to be. But it fits in to that world well, and they are spotlighting the right things so far imo.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

Harfoots are an actual type of hobbit, predecessor/ancestor to our more famous Shire hobbits? They’re mentioned in the prologue to Fellowship Of The Ring. How can they use the name Harfoot but not Hobbit?

There are three branches of hobbits, Harfoots, Stoors, and Fallohides. All the details of the Amazon deal aren't public knowledge so there must be some loophole in the Appendices that mentions the Harfoots or they wanted rights to Hobbits and the Tolkien Estate was only willing to give them Harfoots.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

Harfoots are an actual type of hobbit, predecessor/ancestor to our more famous Shire hobbits? They’re mentioned in the prologue to Fellowship Of The Ring. How can they use the name Harfoot but not Hobbit?

I don't think they are hobbits but to your point a precursor.

@Hot Diggity Dog I am fine with what they bought. They have more poetic license with the less fleshed out appendices. They have lots of room to world build when there are more gaps. They have a template and some rough boundaries. I don't care about black elves or bearded dwarven women, I understand the decision to compress the timelines so that familiar characters are able to be there for the entire run of the show.

As long as they stay true to the themes and the ethos, I will be happy with their efforts and enjoy the ride. Is it Lord of the Rings? No, and I don't expect it to be. But it fits in to that world well, and they are spotlighting the right things so far imo.

As I said in a post above I understand the need to change some things for movies and T.V. shows. It is a totally different median. I would quibble a bit in that in a series that is planning on running 5 seasons in which you will have 40+ hours of screen time compared to 6 to 9 you would have in a movie trilogy, is a bit of a different animal. But yeah characters have to be merged, events compressed etc. etc. Game of thrones did this very well. But conceding that, and what I cannot understand for the life of me, is that you are saying you would rather watch a show planned and written by two guys who don't have a full movie writing credit between them then you to have them follow the events and character traits of a piece of work that is acknowledged, almost universally, as the greatest in its genre. Indeed, the genre defining work. A work of art taught academically. And instead of trying to stay faithful to all that you want two guys with nothing on their resume to flesh out Tolkien's world.
And they aren't staying true to the themes and ethos of Tolkien, they threw that out the door when they made Galadriel into Xena Warrior Princess and Elrond into an aide from The West Wing. You are right it isn't Lord of the Rings, the movie or the book. How it fits into Tolkien's world I don't know since it respects neither the minor details nor the large themes of that world. And that, in a nutshell, is my opinion.

 

[BladeRunner]

Funny that IMDB has almost 25% rating this as a "1". Even if you deplore everything else about it, production values alone have to push this beyond a 1, don't they?

Amazon owns IMDb

 

[BladeRunner]

Funny that IMDB has almost 25% rating this as a "1". Even if you deplore everything else about it, production values alone have to push this beyond a 1, don't they?

Apparently, IMDB got spammed with a ton of 1* reviews. They shut down civilian reviews (at Amazon's request, I think).

Amazon owns IMDb.

Also some of you may see the new Freevee app on your streaming devices- that used to be imdb tv. Amazon owns all of that too. Amazon renamed it and it is the free alternative version to Prime but with commercials.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Amazon owns IMDb. Also some of you may see the new Freevee app on your streaming devices- that used to be imdb tv. Amazon owns all of that. That's Amazon's alternative version to Prime but with commercials

Aah, ok. That makes even more sense as to why they shut down the reviews. Thanks.

 

[Sleestak]

As long as they stay true to the themes and the ethos, I will be happy with their efforts and enjoy the ride. Is it Lord of the Rings? No, and I don't expect it to be. But it fits in to that world well, and they are spotlighting the right things so far imo.

And they aren't staying true to the themes and ethos of Tolkien, they threw that out the door when they made Galadriel into Xena Warrior Princess and Elrond into an aide from The West Wing.

Aptly put. This Amazon series is lazy, has no respect for the viewer, and is needlessly wasting an opportunity to be special. Instead it is paint-by-numbers shlock. What a waste.

 

[BladeRunner]

As long as they stay true to the themes and the ethos, I will be happy with their efforts and enjoy the ride. Is it Lord of the Rings? No, and I don't expect it to be. But it fits in to that world well, and they are spotlighting the right things so far imo.

And they aren't staying true to the themes and ethos of Tolkien, they threw that out the door when they made Galadriel into Xena Warrior Princess and Elrond into an aide from The West Wing.

Aptly put. This Amazon series is lazy, has no respect for the viewer, and is needlessly wasting an opportunity to be special. Instead it is paint-by-numbers shlock. What a waste.

I have not watched it yet but will probably give it go at some point. I have read the criticisms, though, and they seem legit, IMO. I'm a true fan of the original work, having read The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings when I was in high school and so I'm probably more of the traditional fan. For someone who hasn't read anything from Tolkien then they may not have any pre-conceived notions and just may see it as just another fantasy story. That's fine, but for us, more traditional fans, we can see the problems. If what the critics and you have said about Galadriel is true (and I have no doubt it is) then I'm going to have problems with that. Galadriel has no need to wield a sword. I also saw Elon Musk's tweet about how men are depicted in this show and, if that is also true too, then that's an even bigger problem because it tells me that the writers were more concerned about incorporating - for lack of a better phrase "woke" nonsense" - than crafting a compelling story with characters you can root for.

Also, before they released it, Amazon had inundated us with "reviews" pulled from reviewers/groups they hand-selected and, tbh, they all seemed a bit too overwrought with praise. To the point where I started to suspect that something was off. But, I suppose, no business is going to hand select reviewers critical of their stuff. The problem is more with hand-selecting anyone.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I have not watched it yet but will probably give it go at some point. I have read the criticisms, though, and they seem legit, IMO. I'm a true fan of the original work, having read The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings when I was in high school and so I'm probably more of the traditional fan. For someone who hasn't read anything from Tolkien then they may not have any pre-conceived notions and just may see it as just another fantasy story. That's fine, but for us, more traditional fans, we can see the problems. If what the critics and you have said about Galadriel is true (and I have no doubt it is) then I'm going to have problems with that. Galadriel has no need to wield a sword. I also saw Elon Musk's tweet about how men are depicted in this show and, if that is also true too, then that's an even bigger problem because it tells me that the writers were more concerned about incorporating - for lack of a better phrase "woke" nonsense" - than crafting a compelling story with characters you can root for.

Also, before they released it, Amazon had inundated us with "reviews" pulled from reviewers/groups they hand-selected and, tbh, they all seemed a bit too overwrought with praise. To the point where I started to suspect that something was off. But, I suppose, no business is going to hand select reviewers critical of their stuff. The problem is more with hand-selecting anyone.

Yeah, you're probably not gonna like it

The problem with Galadriel - the Tolkien character - is that he kept revising her story right up until he died. In one version, he called her "Amazonian" and said she was the rival of any male Elf in athletics and feats of strength. So, her being a warrior doesn't necessarily go against what Tolkien (sometimes) intended. But you wouldn't know that if all you've read/seen are The Hobbit & Lord Of The Rings.

 

[BladeRunner]

I have not watched it yet but will probably give it go at some point. I have read the criticisms, though, and they seem legit, IMO. I'm a true fan of the original work, having read The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings when I was in high school and so I'm probably more of the traditional fan. For someone who hasn't read anything from Tolkien then they may not have any pre-conceived notions and just may see it as just another fantasy story. That's fine, but for us, more traditional fans, we can see the problems. If what the critics and you have said about Galadriel is true (and I have no doubt it is) then I'm going to have problems with that. Galadriel has no need to wield a sword. I also saw Elon Musk's tweet about how men are depicted in this show and, if that is also true too, then that's an even bigger problem because it tells me that the writers were more concerned about incorporating - for lack of a better phrase "woke" nonsense" - than crafting a compelling story with characters you can root for.

Also, before they released it, Amazon had inundated us with "reviews" pulled from reviewers/groups they hand-selected and, tbh, they all seemed a bit too overwrought with praise. To the point where I started to suspect that something was off. But, I suppose, no business is going to hand select reviewers critical of their stuff. The problem is more with hand-selecting anyone.

Yeah, you're probably not gonna like it

The problem with Galadriel - the Tolkien character - is that he kept revising her story right up until he died. In one version, he called her "Amazonian" and said she was the rival of any male Elf in athletics and feats of strength. So, her being a warrior doesn't necessarily go against what Tolkien (sometimes) intended. But you wouldn't know that if all you've read/seen are The Hobbit & Lord Of The Rings.

Thanks for updating me. I definitely have not read everything that tolkein has written and I certainly am not a tolkein scholar so I did not know that at all. That certainly changes my Outlook.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Thanks for updating me. I definitely have not read everything that tolkein has written and I certainly am not a tolkein scholar so I did not know that at all. That certainly changes my Outlook.

In a way, you're probably better off. For folks like me, we have to recalibrate what we "know" because of how things are being presented. And those changes aren't entirely artistic decisions - as noted by many above, there are parts of Tolkien's work that Amazon doesn't have the rights to. So, some of the characters and storylines are being made up with very little (or no) background in Tolkien's writings.

There are Tolkien Purists who are outraged with any change, which is funny because there's no "canon" for a lot of this period. Then there are those who are triggered by any (real or imagined, true or feigned) attempts at "wokeism" in this show by the casting. There are also those who will forgive this program anything they do, quality be damned.

For me personally, I decided to forget my preconceived notions about what this show should be (I had to do this with Jackson's films 20 years ago, too, which was much harder) and to treat it as a TV show on its own merits. In that light, I think it's pretty good. Sure, some of the dialogue is hackneyed in the way that it is in most fantasy media and the showrunners seem to be making some choices that have me sitting back with my arms crossed in a "ok, y'all - better show me something with this storyline" way.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

The Ringer's weekly recap podcast with Mallory Rubin & Joanna Robinson is really good if any of you want to get way deep into this show. Both are very knowledgeable, but don't take themselves or the material too seriously. They are also really funny. Carve out some time, though, as their latest episode for a 1 hour TV show clocked in at 2 hours.

 

[thecatch]

I’ve gone most of my life enjoying the books and movies, blissfully unaware of how awful a lot of Tolkien super fans are until the last couple weeks. Not just the racism; all the “this elf is unlike the way she was portrayed on page 891 of a book only 48 people have ever read!” stuff is insufferable.

 

[thecatch]

The Ringer's weekly recap podcast with Mallory Rubin & Joanna Robinson is really good if any of you want to get way deep into this show. Both are very knowledgeable, but don't take themselves or the material too seriously. They are also really funny. Carve out some time, though, as their latest episode for a 1 hour TV show clocked in at 2 hours.

Mallory is fine but this may be the first time anyone has ever said she doesn’t take a fantasy book/show too seriously.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Mallory is fine but this may be the first time anyone has ever said she doesn’t take a fantasy book/show too seriously.

Maybe I should have expressed it differently. She's not hung up on a lot of the changes just because they are changes. Rubin seems to be willing to give the showrunners a chance to work it out.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

The Ringer's weekly recap podcast with Mallory Rubin & Joanna Robinson is really good if any of you want to get way deep into this show. Both are very knowledgeable, but don't take themselves or the material too seriously. They are also really funny. Carve out some time, though, as their latest episode for a 1 hour TV show clocked in at 2 hours.

They’ve been going over 3 hours on their pods for each (one hour) HoTD episode so it seems they are showing some restraint on this one.

 

[foxco]

Still digging it so far. Fun show, looks beautiful, the wokeness doesn't bug me in the slightest.

 

[Barry]

Still digging it so far. Fun show, looks beautiful, the wokeness doesn't bug me in the slightest.

I've been bored for long stretches during all 3 episodes. I don't care for any of these characters. But I haven't noticed any wokeness.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

I’ve gone most of my life enjoying the books and movies, blissfully unaware of how awful a lot of Tolkien super fans are until the last couple weeks. Not just the racism; all the “this elf is unlike the way she was portrayed on page 891 of a book only 48 people have ever read!” stuff is insufferable.

I find it hilarious that people want to attack the group of people that have kept Tolkien a relevant and profitable product for years. That group gets called racist because they call out a poorly produced and badly written show which doesn't even have the merit of respecting the source material. If the producers of the show think it is a great business decision to let their actors and sympathetic media crap on anyone that dissents from the party line with accusations of racism they are more stupid than they seem to be because these are the people who would buy all the peripheral stuff like mugs, cups, etc. And with so little effort the same group of "racists" would be their best customers. But no, consume our crap because we have good intentions or be called a racist. LOL.

If you like the show watch and enjoy it. I have met people who thought Battlefield Earth was a great movie so there is no accounting for taste. But like all things the great unwashed masses will decide if the show has staying power. Game of thrones managed to draw a mass following with great writing and acting, we'll see if Rings of Power can do it with CGI.

 

[stbugs]

Loving the first three eps.

Me too. Scary how weird some people can get and sorry, if you read most of the online reviews there is a **** ton of racism. Kind of sad in a way. I didn’t read the books and don’t care and I sure haven’t seen anything that really seems to stray from the movies. I can handle a young Galadriel being good with a sword and I can handle Elrond being diplomatic since he was very diplomatic in the LOTRs movies. I don’t recall seeing him wield a sword until the Hobbit but I sure didn’t assume he couldn’t. I want to be entertained and I am so hopefully that mongering dies down. I sure haven’t seen anything woke in the show at all.

 

[Spanky267]

I've watched the first three episodes. The pacing is weird but not entirely off putting. If they dropped the pretense that this was Lord of the Rings, in anything other than name. This would be a decent fantasy show. Not great. But decent. The visuals are really good and you can tell that there was alot of effort made in set design and the budget for visual effects seems to be off the charts.
The dialog is stilted and as a result its hard to tell if its the writing, the actors or the direction that is the problem. Its not very engaging. For example. Bronwyn and Arondir travel to that town in the second episode. In a land that she is apparently from and very familiar with. When they come to the town and its essentially burned to the ground with no one in sight. She doesnt show any real sadness or shock. There are supposed to be people in this town that she grew up with and knew well. But she shows no shock or emotion. Is this because she's a bad actor? Or is it because the script or the director didnt allow for her to express the emotional turmoil that would come over someone in that situation? I cant tell.

If this were just a new Fantasy show that Amazon developed from scratch it would have far greater promise and would be receiving far less criticism. Unfortunately the weight of the legendarium and Amazons lack of access to large swathes of that material is crushing this show. I'm going to keep watching, because I love this genre and I hope it improves.

 

[BladeRunner]

Loving the first three eps.

Me too. Scary how weird some people can get and sorry, if you read most of the online reviews there is a **** ton of racism. Kind of sad in a way. I didn’t read the books and don’t care and I sure haven’t seen anything that really seems to stray from the movies. I can handle a young Galadriel being good with a sword and I can handle Elrond being diplomatic since he was very diplomatic in the LOTRs movies. I don’t recall seeing him wield a sword until the Hobbit but I sure didn’t assume he couldn’t. I want to be entertained and I am so hopefully that mongering dies down. I sure haven’t seen anything woke in the show at all.

I'm not so sure it's not so much about racism as much as it is about sticking to the world that Tolkien built. I think you would get the same reaction if Hollywood came out with another Blade movie with Brad Pitt as the title character. I highly doubt critics would be calling those fans racist. In fact, I guarantee the same fans you're calling racist now would absolutely be pissed about white-washing Blade.

When you guys start bringing up race here, you're making it political. I don't want this thread to get moved into the PSF.

 

[stbugs]

Loving the first three eps.

Me too. Scary how weird some people can get and sorry, if you read most of the online reviews there is a **** ton of racism. Kind of sad in a way. I didn’t read the books and don’t care and I sure haven’t seen anything that really seems to stray from the movies. I can handle a young Galadriel being good with a sword and I can handle Elrond being diplomatic since he was very diplomatic in the LOTRs movies. I don’t recall seeing him wield a sword until the Hobbit but I sure didn’t assume he couldn’t. I want to be entertained and I am so hopefully that mongering dies down. I sure haven’t seen anything woke in the show at all.

I'm not so sure it's not so much about racism as much as it is about sticking to the world that Tolkien built. I think you would get the same reaction if Hollywood came out with another Blade movie with Brad Pitt as the title character. I highly doubt critics would be calling those fans racist. In fact, I guarantee the same fans you're calling racist now would absolutely be pissed about white-washing Blade.

When you guys start bringing up race here, you're making it political. I don't want this thread to get moved into the PSF.

I assume you haven’t gone into some of the posts. It’s pretty bad. The other guy was talking about how the “unwashed masses” will decide the show’s fate. Kind of trashy and elitist IMHO. I’ll be honest, as a non book reader, I barely would have noticed any of these complaints, but after reading the complaints most are pretty pathetic. Don’t watch the show, lots of us are enjoying the show, it’s been really good.

Not targeting you in particular, but the hey I’ve got some black friends/we’d be upset over Blade being white comment is pretty funny since Blade’s pretty rare and not exactly a front line hero.

There was a bit of a backlash on The Falcon becoming Captain America. I thought the Falcon and WS was just a meh show but Falcon becoming cap was no big deal. I’d rather have seen them give him some super serum somehow so he was more powerful in the future.

 

[Aloof]

Will I enjoy this if I never watched the movies? I know it’s a prequel and all. My LotR experience is falling asleep in the theater during the first one and my GF at the time breaking up with me a few days later because she was such a Tolkien enthusiast.

Narrator: That wasn't why she broke up with him

 

[BladeRunner]

Loving the first three eps.

Me too. Scary how weird some people can get and sorry, if you read most of the online reviews there is a **** ton of racism. Kind of sad in a way. I didn’t read the books and don’t care and I sure haven’t seen anything that really seems to stray from the movies. I can handle a young Galadriel being good with a sword and I can handle Elrond being diplomatic since he was very diplomatic in the LOTRs movies. I don’t recall seeing him wield a sword until the Hobbit but I sure didn’t assume he couldn’t. I want to be entertained and I am so hopefully that mongering dies down. I sure haven’t seen anything woke in the show at all.

I'm not so sure it's not so much about racism as much as it is about sticking to the world that Tolkien built. I think you would get the same reaction if Hollywood came out with another Blade movie with Brad Pitt as the title character. I highly doubt critics would be calling those fans racist. In fact, I guarantee the same fans you're calling racist now would absolutely be pissed about white-washing Blade.

When you guys start bringing up race here, you're making it political. I don't want this thread to get moved into the PSF.

I assume you haven’t gone into some of the posts. It’s pretty bad. The other guy was talking about how the “unwashed masses” will decide the show’s fate. Kind of trashy and elitist IMHO. I’ll be honest, as a non book reader, I barely would have noticed any of these complaints, but after reading the complaints most are pretty pathetic. Don’t watch the show, lots of us are enjoying the show, it’s been really good.

Not targeting you in particular, but the hey I’ve got some black friends/we’d be upset over Blade being white comment is pretty funny since Blade’s pretty rare and not exactly a front line hero.

There was a bit of a backlash on The Falcon becoming Captain America. I thought the Falcon and WS was just a meh show but Falcon becoming cap was no big deal. I’d rather have seen them give him some super serum somehow so he was more powerful in the future.

Thanks for the response. I, personally, have not seen any of these horrid posts you're talking about. However, I do see videos on YouTube and they seem pretty tame. Anyways, I don't want to get too far down this rabbit hole other than to say I think calling fans racist and bigots is not the correct way to handle this. Not you necessarily, but these shows, actors and showrunners doing it. EVERY time they face the slightest criticism it's always because the fans are toxic racists. It can't ever be that your show sucks or just isn't very good.

Also, I have ZERO problem with Falcon as Captain America.

 

[BladeRunner]

For those of you that think the fandom is racist and toxic, I implore you to watch this video and look at it from the real position:

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtu.be

The Critical Drinker lays out the real problem and not the problem you're being told it is, IMO.

 

[Psychopav]

I'm a long time LotR fan, long long before the movies. I'm also a cradle Catholic. Great line this week and emblematic of what I mean when I say I am holding out hope that the show honors Tolkien's worldview:

Spoiler

"Ours was no chance meeting. Not fate, nor destiny, nor any other words Men use to speak of the forces they lack the conviction to name. Ours was the work of something greater."

Gratuitous reverence that could have come right out of Gandalf's mouth. Bravo imo

 

[PIK95]

My thoughts on 2 spoilery items below.

The Stranger:

I think it's Tommy Bombs myself.

 

[stbugs]

For those of you that think the fandom is racist and toxic, I implore you to watch this video and look at it from the real position:

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtu.be

The Critical Drinker lays out the real problem and not the problem you're being told it is, IMO.

Why watch? For those of us enjoying the show, how does it help? There is a lot of toxicity in the reviews and responses to the show, not everyone but many. If you don’t want to watch the show because you don’t think it stays true enough, super. I don’t really care as long as I’m enjoying it.

 

[BladeRunner]

For those of you that think the fandom is racist and toxic, I implore you to watch this video and look at it from the real position:

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtu.be

The Critical Drinker lays out the real problem and not the problem you're being told it is, IMO.

Why watch? For those of us enjoying the show, how does it help? There is a lot of toxicity in the reviews and responses to the show, not everyone but many. If you don’t want to watch the show because you don’t think it stays true enough, super. I don’t really care as long as I’m enjoying it.

Well, since you were one of the posters to bring it up about the fans being toxic and racist, I thought it would be a good idea for you to at least try and understand where some of them are coming from. You can still enjoy the show and at the same time understand that the fandom may not necessarily be as racist and toxic as you might think it is. That's all.

 

[beer 30]

I have to be the dissenting opinion here. This show is just hilariously bad to me. I gave it a chance because it could be just a good show, because I knew they weren't following the lore even a little bit. So went in hoping we would get an entertaining show with Tolkien's world and barest bit of lore grafted on it. Oh man I was not ready for this show's dialogue to be just comically bad and the sheer number of nonsensical actions by characters just takes me out of the show. Just a bunch of writers trying to sound highbrow with no idea how to do it. Like the beginning 5 minutes of the show. Galadriel is narrating and says something to the effect of "We thought our days of Joy would go on forever" despite the fact that Elvish Childern in Valinor, the Elvish Heaven on Earth, will bully each other pretty viciously and this will lead to a physical fight. Girl Galadriel had a balled-up fist holding the other kid down and getting ready to pound him but is only stopped by her older brother. And the brother Finrod implies this is a situation that happens alot, at least to Galadriel? Ok so bullying is just a part of Heaven I guess, bliss for days on end. Then the whole rocks don't float because they look down to the darkness, but boats float because they look to the light speech by Finrod. What in holy nonsense is this Batman? I thought we had stumbled into a lost scene of some Monty Python movie. Then we get to the Altar with Sauron's sigil on it. The altar causes snowflakes to turn into steam on contact, but you pour water on the altar and the water freezes. OK, but even better the sigil is a sign to Orcs on where to gather for Sauron, so it's a map? A symbol of some known place? But it is also a symbol Orcs brand on their dead enemies so the Orcs have known what the symbol was for a long time, long before they were in exile and would need a symbol to find Sauron? Finrod was killed by the Orcs when they were following Morgoth not Sauron, yet they still branded Finrod with Sauron's sigil? So I am confused as to what that is all about. Then the Elven party deserts Galadriel, or just refuse to take her orders anymore despite her being the Commander of the Northern Army? Ok no real chain of command here in the Elvish army because all these deserters get a trip back to Valinor for directly disobeying their commander. And they desert after they find hard evidence of the existence of Sauron, the guy they have been searching for for CENTURIES! Nah, we met one snow troll we gone Galadriel. They form a circle around her and symbolically lay down their swords and walk away from her. Did they just leave their swords there? While in an evil fortress? What if there is another snow troll? After the dramatic scene do they later slink back and pick up their swords? I mean there could be another snow troll in that fortress you plan on staying in overnight. Of course Galadriel is the only one in the party capable of fighting so maybe they figure better to climb down the mountain without having to carry a sword. And it just keeps going scene after scene into episode two. At one point one Elf says to another Elf "you smell like rotting leaves" and the Elf's retort is basically DO NOT! And one of these Elves is carrying a bow without a string and no quiver with arrows. And these are supposed to be Tolkien Elves? Really? Tonally it is just weird. And then the Harfoots, oh boy. At one point one of them, I think it is Nori's father, is walking around with just a stick in his hair. Not leaves, not flowers, just a plain old stick. Do they just never bathe, comb their hair, or clean their clothes? I get flowers and leaves in their hair if they are like nature people, but just a plain old stick? It was just so jarring even in with the fauna all the rest of them had in their hair. Again, I thought these character designs could be straight out of a Monty Python movie. And the Harfoot astronomer guy has mutton chops that make him look like a Civil War general glued onto his face. The Harfoots are some kind of intersection of a gypsy tribe, hippy commune, and faerie troop. Just such a strange vibe for a show supposedly based on Tolkien's books.
And then we get to the lore. Basically what we get from Tolkien is a Map, character names, and the broadest outline of a plot. That being Morgoth is defeated but Sauron, his first servant, takes up his fight and eventually forges some rings of power that sets up the Lord of the Rings events. Amazon only has rights to the appendices of the Lord of the Rings books and cannot draw from the Silmarillion, The Hobbit, or the Lord of the Rings books. So they basically paid to get the naming rights so they could draw people based on the reputation of the Lord of the Rings books and movies, because what they paid for doesn't give them access to a lot of the lore in the time period the show is set in. The Lord of the Rings movies chopped a lot of plot, traded lines between characters, and what not to make it all fit into a movie format. Understandable, but the spirit of characters was kept, and it captured the feel of the world really well. Rings of Power just mangles everything. For instance, Galadriel never picks up a sword and never leads an army in the original work. She is naturally a highly magical being and this is further enhanced by being taught magic by the most powerful sorceress of time period in which the Rings of Power is taking place. She wants a land of her own to rule. At this point in time in the books she cannot return to Valinor because she and all the Noldor Elves are banned from returning to Valinor for a long list of reasons. So having Gil Galad sending Elves back to Valinor as a reward ignores all the lore of the world because at this point in time Gil Galad himself could not return to Valinor, let alone grant other elves passage. The events surrounding the banning of the Noldor and the consequences of that help explain why Sauron is such a threat to Middle Earth. But no we aren't going near even the spirit of the books.

Stephen Colbert has entered the thread

 

[Spanky267]

For those of you that think the fandom is racist and toxic, I implore you to watch this video and look at it from the real position:

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtu.be

The Critical Drinker lays out the real problem and not the problem you're being told it is, IMO.

Why watch? For those of us enjoying the show, how does it help? There is a lot of toxicity in the reviews and responses to the show, not everyone but many. If you don’t want to watch the show because you don’t think it stays true enough, super. I don’t really care as long as I’m enjoying it.

I think the issue is that Amazon, the cast and others glom onto the minority of comments and responses that are "toxic" and use those to lay a blanket that any criticism of their product is "toxic". I'm willing to give RoP a chance. But for the showrunners, the network and the cast to make sweeping statements about criticism for the show as being racist is an attempt to avoid responding to genuine criticism of the show from fans who actually want them to succeed.

 

[BladeRunner]

For those of you that think the fandom is racist and toxic, I implore you to watch this video and look at it from the real position:

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtu.be

The Critical Drinker lays out the real problem and not the problem you're being told it is, IMO.

Why watch? For those of us enjoying the show, how does it help? There is a lot of toxicity in the reviews and responses to the show, not everyone but many. If you don’t want to watch the show because you don’t think it stays true enough, super. I don’t really care as long as I’m enjoying it.

I think the issue is that Amazon, the cast and others glom onto the minority of comments and responses that are "toxic" and use those to lay a blanket that any criticism of their product is "toxic". I'm willing to give RoP a chance. But for the showrunners, the network and the cast to make sweeping statements about criticism for the show as being racist is an attempt to avoid responding to genuine criticism of the show from fans who actually want them to succeed.

That's my thought as well. Seems like in the last few years they are all hiding behind that shield. People don't like your show? Well, they must be racists. People criticizing the writing? Must be racists. People don't like the character? Why, they are racists!!!!

The Critical Drinker gets into that in his video, but it's a marketing strategy called Fan-baiting.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

The Critical Drinker gets into that in his video, but it's a marketing strategy called Fan-baiting.

That's interesting analysis from that twitter account - something I was not aware of but makes sense. For me, its pretty easy to ignore all this stuff and either enjoy the show or not on its merit. I will say I though some of Jackson's huge changes to the source in his Hobbit adaptation were ridiculous and it somewhat ruined the experience for me, but none of them had anything to do with skin color or gender.