Official Bishop Sankey - Best RB in the 2014 Draft (1 Viewer)

[werdnoynek]

Greene has two 1000+ yard rushing seasons in the NFL, which is probably more than Sankey will have in his career.

You might want to add this to the bold prediction thread.

The odds of him having a better career than Greene are actually pretty slim.

Here's a list of every RB drafted in the 2nd round from 2003-2012. Guys who have at least two 1000+ yard rushing season are in bold:

Isaiah Pead

LaMichael James

-------------------------

Ryan Williams

Shane Vereen

Mikel LeShoure

Daniel Thomas

-------------------------

Dexter McCluster

Toby Gerhart

Ben Tate

Montario Hardesty

-------------------------LeSean McCoy

-------------------------Matt ForteRay Rice

-------------------------

Kenny Irons

Chris Henry

Brian Leonard

Brandon Jackson

-------------------------

LenDale WhiteMaurice Jones-Drew

-------------------------

JJ Arrington

Eric Shelton

-------------------------

Tatum Bell

Julius Jones

Greg Jones

That's only 4 out of 24, or 16.7%. There are a couple players here who still have a chance to do it (Tate and Gerhart), and the recent odds are almost certainly going to rise when we look back on the Lacy/Bell/Gio/Michael/Ball class in a few years. You could also probably toss out players like McCluster and Leonard who never really seemed to have much hope for becoming bell cow backs. Generally speaking though, any given 2nd round RB is a huge dog to have even a Greene caliber career. Probably no better than 25-30%. If you think Sankey is a Rice/MJD/Forte/McCoy level player then you shouldn't be too worried about the odds, but they don't paint a pretty picture and I'm not a huge believer in his talent aside from that. His RB13 dynasty ADP is actually pretty insane when you think about it. Last year's abnormally high hit rate on the 2nd round RBs (not a single one of them has cratered like Pead or LeShoure yet) might be skewing expectations for this new crop of rookie backs.

The odds of a 2nd round RB having a better career than a 3rd rounder is not good. Makes perfect sense. Do you even realize what you just wrote?Besides, you only say this because you already KNOW what Greene has done. How good could you be at predicting Greene's career that you don't know yet from the point he was drafted on forward? Instead of looking back into time and using data you already know.

In fairness, he wasn't comparing Sankey's potential to Greene's potential as a prospect. He was comparing Sankey's potential to Greene's accomplishments (as we already know them).

Exactly. Greene has already proven that he can win a starting job, last for a few years, and be moderately productive.

As I showed above, that's actually a lot more than what you're going to get from a typical 2nd round rookie RB.

What Greene has proven is that coaches are willing to stick with mediocre backs.Oh wait isn't Sankey mediocre? I guess the odds of a mediocre 2nd round RB having a career as good as a mediocre 3rd round RB isn't good.

Making more sense each time.

For a guy who portrays himself as the smartest kid in the class, you sure seem to miss the obvious. Greene has tremendous value to a team. It's not that he's a stud, it's that he's NFL proven to be reliable and dependable. He'll get some push and get you into desirable down and distance on 2nd and 3rd down. That's a significant asset for a team. He increases the odds of a team sustaining drives, maintaining possession, and improving field position. He's solid between the tackles and moves forward, which is an added benefit in short yardage situations. And every once in a while, he has enough to his game that he can break off a long gainer.

His game helps the offense, helps make the QB a little better, and helps the D by giving them a rest. There's a reason why NFL HCs like a guy like Greene even though you miss it. He's not sexy but he's dependably effective. Against a guy like Sankey who may have a greater likelihood of busting off a big play if it's blocked by the book but who also just as easily gains minimal yards if a hole isn't opened for him, Greene becomes a more desirable option for the larger share of the ground work. - because he's more reliable and dependable.

FFers don't understand why a guy like Greene gets as much work as he does. He's not the sexy option and he doesn't post great numbers often. HCs fully understand his value, and that's why he gets the work he does.

You're the one missing the obvious.Greene is mediocre. Sankey is mediocre. Therefore Sankey has very little chance to be Greene.

Excellent analysis guys.

Care to share what's obvious?

Your analysis lately has been just condescending jabs, ironically.

 

[cstu]

For a guy who portrays himself as the smartest kid in the class, you sure seem to miss the obvious.

Greene has tremendous value to a team. It's not that he's a stud, it's that he's NFL proven to be reliable and dependable. He'll get some push and get you into desirable down and distance on 2nd and 3rd down. That's a significant asset for a team. He increases the odds of a team sustaining drives, maintaining possession, and improving field position. He's solid between the tackles and moves forward, which is an added benefit in short yardage situations. And every once in a while, he has enough to his game that he can break off a long gainer.

His game helps the offense, helps make the QB a little better, and helps the D by giving them a rest. There's a reason why NFL HCs like a guy like Greene even though you miss it. He's not sexy but he's dependably effective. Against a guy like Sankey who may have a greater likelihood of busting off a big play if it's blocked by the book but who also just as easily gains minimal yards if a hole isn't opened for him, Greene becomes a more desirable option for the larger share of the ground work. - because he's more reliable and dependable.

FFers don't understand why a guy like Greene gets as much work as he does. He's not the sexy option and he doesn't post great numbers often. HCs fully understand his value, and that's why he gets the work he does.

I understand completely why Greene is part of the team and there's a clear need for a guy with his skills. However, that's all he brings to the table. He isn't going to scare defenses or make them wonder what's coming - with him it's either a run of 3-4 yards or he's blocking. Except in short yardage situations Sankey can pick up the same yards rushing while also being a threat as a receiver.

 

[EBF]

Based on historical odds, a random 2nd round RB is a big underdog to have a better career than Shonn Greene. Some of them are going to do it though. If you have a strong reason for thinking a prospect is going to be one of the exceptions, that's your prerogative. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I don't care if people like Sankey or not, but at the same time there's nothing inaccurate about suggesting that it's unlikely he'll have a great career based on his generic traits.

Players become less and less mysterious the more you see of them in the NFL. Michael already looked tremendous in training camp and dominated in several preseason games. Many players will never even accomplish that. Likewise, Gerhart has already played well in the NFL and earned a fairly significant second contract and a clear starting role. If he were destined to be a mega bust like Pead or Irons, we would've already seen it by now. Point being, you can't compare a rookie who's fresh off the boat with a guy who has been in the league several years and is already a known quantity to a greater extent.

The odds change the more you see of a player. Maurice Jones-Drew was unlikely to have the career he had if all you did was look at his draft slot, but obviously at this point you can throw that all out the window. He's no longer a "random 2nd round RB." He's just MJD and we know what he'll do when he's healthy. Like a poker flop, the odds go out the window when you see the cards face up on the table. But that's not where we are with Sankey right now. We've hardly seen any of him in the NFL. It's still conceivable that his career could go any number of ways. He could be a huge success or a huge flop. We won't know for sure until it happens.

All that being said, it's pretty fascinating to look at these mysterious players and to consider if/when to adjust your opinion of them. Do you move a guy up if he looks bad? Do you move a guy down? Do you stick with your initial evaluation in the face of mounting evidence that your initial evaluation was wrong? I think knowing when to hold them and knowing when to fold them is more of an art than a science. Sometimes guys who look bad early end up having decent careers. Sometimes guys who flash in the preseason end up having irrelevant careers. There's no one-size-fits-all method for dealing with these problems. Sometimes I'm loyal to a struggling player and sometimes I bail immediately when something seems off. Either way, I think it's wise to keep tabs on these guys and to try to be as honest with yourself as possible about whether or not you should be adjusting their value. IMO getting these calls right is where a lot of the skill of FF comes into play.

This thread is no different from the Michael or T-Rich threads in that the people who already liked him are interpreting his game in a positive light/making excuses for any struggles whereas the people who didn't like him are more inclined to interpret the facts in a negative light. Like those threads, it will probably follow the predictable back-and-forth stubborn bickering until finally we reach a point where the verdict on his career is so clear cut that there's no more room for debate or excuses.

 

[Brewtown]

Being on the opposite end of the discussion with Werdnoynek and EBF actually make me feel better about my evaluation of Sankey...

 

[Xue]

Greene has two 1000+ yard rushing seasons in the NFL, which is probably more than Sankey will have in his career.

You might want to add this to the bold prediction thread.

The odds of him having a better career than Greene are actually pretty slim.

Here's a list of every RB drafted in the 2nd round from 2003-2012. Guys who have at least two 1000+ yard rushing season are in bold:

Isaiah Pead

LaMichael James

-------------------------

Ryan Williams

Shane Vereen

Mikel LeShoure

Daniel Thomas

-------------------------

Dexter McCluster

Toby Gerhart

Ben Tate

Montario Hardesty

-------------------------LeSean McCoy

-------------------------Matt ForteRay Rice

-------------------------

Kenny Irons

Chris Henry

Brian Leonard

Brandon Jackson

-------------------------

LenDale WhiteMaurice Jones-Drew

-------------------------

JJ Arrington

Eric Shelton

-------------------------

Tatum Bell

Julius Jones

Greg Jones

That's only 4 out of 24, or 16.7%. There are a couple players here who still have a chance to do it (Tate and Gerhart), and the recent odds are almost certainly going to rise when we look back on the Lacy/Bell/Gio/Michael/Ball class in a few years. You could also probably toss out players like McCluster and Leonard who never really seemed to have much hope for becoming bell cow backs. Generally speaking though, any given 2nd round RB is a huge dog to have even a Greene caliber career. Probably no better than 25-30%. If you think Sankey is a Rice/MJD/Forte/McCoy level player then you shouldn't be too worried about the odds, but they don't paint a pretty picture and I'm not a huge believer in his talent aside from that. His RB13 dynasty ADP is actually pretty insane when you think about it. Last year's abnormally high hit rate on the 2nd round RBs (not a single one of them has cratered like Pead or LeShoure yet) might be skewing expectations for this new crop of rookie backs.

The odds of a 2nd round RB having a better career than a 3rd rounder is not good. Makes perfect sense. Do you even realize what you just wrote?Besides, you only say this because you already KNOW what Greene has done. How good could you be at predicting Greene's career that you don't know yet from the point he was drafted on forward? Instead of looking back into time and using data you already know.

In fairness, he wasn't comparing Sankey's potential to Greene's potential as a prospect. He was comparing Sankey's potential to Greene's accomplishments (as we already know them).

Exactly. Greene has already proven that he can win a starting job, last for a few years, and be moderately productive.

As I showed above, that's actually a lot more than what you're going to get from a typical 2nd round rookie RB.

What Greene has proven is that coaches are willing to stick with mediocre backs.Oh wait isn't Sankey mediocre? I guess the odds of a mediocre 2nd round RB having a career as good as a mediocre 3rd round RB isn't good.

Making more sense each time.

For a guy who portrays himself as the smartest kid in the class, you sure seem to miss the obvious. Greene has tremendous value to a team. It's not that he's a stud, it's that he's NFL proven to be reliable and dependable. He'll get some push and get you into desirable down and distance on 2nd and 3rd down. That's a significant asset for a team. He increases the odds of a team sustaining drives, maintaining possession, and improving field position. He's solid between the tackles and moves forward, which is an added benefit in short yardage situations. And every once in a while, he has enough to his game that he can break off a long gainer.

His game helps the offense, helps make the QB a little better, and helps the D by giving them a rest. There's a reason why NFL HCs like a guy like Greene even though you miss it. He's not sexy but he's dependably effective. Against a guy like Sankey who may have a greater likelihood of busting off a big play if it's blocked by the book but who also just as easily gains minimal yards if a hole isn't opened for him, Greene becomes a more desirable option for the larger share of the ground work. - because he's more reliable and dependable.

FFers don't understand why a guy like Greene gets as much work as he does. He's not the sexy option and he doesn't post great numbers often. HCs fully understand his value, and that's why he gets the work he does.

You're the one missing the obvious.Greene is mediocre. Sankey is mediocre. Therefore Sankey has very little chance to be Greene.

Excellent analysis guys.

Care to share what's obvious? Your analysis lately has been just condescending jabs, ironically.

What's obvious is that the narrative defending Greene is the same one detracting Sankey, or will eventually be used to detract Sankey if he ever has a Greene career

 

[werdnoynek]

What's obvious is that the narrative defending Greene is the same one detracting Sankey, or will eventually be used to detract Sankey if he ever has a Greene career

That's better. It makes some sense, but I think Sankey's issues and Greene' issues kind of inversely compliment eachother. The issue for Sankey is Mccluster can also play that role and likely will. Look at Woodhead last year for Whisenhunt. I think if Sankey can show he can play early downs between the 20s he will, what that means for his numbers is a good question. Someone said they're looking at him as an RB2 with RB1 upside this season. I wouldn't bet on that.

 

[cstu]

What's obvious is that the narrative defending Greene is the same one detracting Sankey, or will eventually be used to detract Sankey if he ever has a Greene career

That's better. It makes some sense, but I think Sankey's issues and Greene' issues kind of inversely compliment eachother. The issue for Sankey is Mccluster can also play that role and likely will. Look at Woodhead last year for Whisenhunt. I think if Sankey can show he can play early downs between the 20s he will, what that means for his numbers is a good question. Someone said they're looking at him as an RB2 with RB1 upside this season. I wouldn't bet on that.

What does McCluster bring to the table that would put Sankey on the bench on 3rd downs?

 

[werdnoynek]

What's obvious is that the narrative defending Greene is the same one detracting Sankey, or will eventually be used to detract Sankey if he ever has a Greene career

That's better. It makes some sense, but I think Sankey's issues and Greene' issues kind of inversely compliment eachother. The issue for Sankey is Mccluster can also play that role and likely will. Look at Woodhead last year for Whisenhunt. I think if Sankey can show he can play early downs between the 20s he will, what that means for his numbers is a good question. Someone said they're looking at him as an RB2 with RB1 upside this season. I wouldn't bet on that.

What does McCluster bring to the table that would put Sankey on the bench on 3rd downs?

Superior receiving and open field ability.

 

[cstu]

What's obvious is that the narrative defending Greene is the same one detracting Sankey, or will eventually be used to detract Sankey if he ever has a Greene career

That's better. It makes some sense, but I think Sankey's issues and Greene' issues kind of inversely compliment eachother. The issue for Sankey is Mccluster can also play that role and likely will. Look at Woodhead last year for Whisenhunt. I think if Sankey can show he can play early downs between the 20s he will, what that means for his numbers is a good question. Someone said they're looking at him as an RB2 with RB1 upside this season. I wouldn't bet on that.

What does McCluster bring to the table that would put Sankey on the bench on 3rd downs?

Superior receiving and open field ability.

The way you're describing the situation it makes me wonder why the Titans wasted their 2nd round pick instead of going into the season with Greene and McCluster.

 

[werdnoynek]

What's obvious is that the narrative defending Greene is the same one detracting Sankey, or will eventually be used to detract Sankey if he ever has a Greene career

That's better. It makes some sense, but I think Sankey's issues and Greene' issues kind of inversely compliment eachother. The issue for Sankey is Mccluster can also play that role and likely will. Look at Woodhead last year for Whisenhunt. I think if Sankey can show he can play early downs between the 20s he will, what that means for his numbers is a good question. Someone said they're looking at him as an RB2 with RB1 upside this season. I wouldn't bet on that.

What does McCluster bring to the table that would put Sankey on the bench on 3rd downs?

Superior receiving and open field ability.

The way you're describing the situation it makes me wonder why the Titans wasted their 2nd round pick instead of going into the season with Greene and McCluster.

Teams usually need more than 2 RB's on their roster.

 

[rct]

Edited.

 

[cstu]

What's obvious is that the narrative defending Greene is the same one detracting Sankey, or will eventually be used to detract Sankey if he ever has a Greene career

That's better. It makes some sense, but I think Sankey's issues and Greene' issues kind of inversely compliment eachother. The issue for Sankey is Mccluster can also play that role and likely will. Look at Woodhead last year for Whisenhunt. I think if Sankey can show he can play early downs between the 20s he will, what that means for his numbers is a good question. Someone said they're looking at him as an RB2 with RB1 upside this season. I wouldn't bet on that.

What does McCluster bring to the table that would put Sankey on the bench on 3rd downs?

Superior receiving and open field ability.

The way you're describing the situation it makes me wonder why the Titans wasted their 2nd round pick instead of going into the season with Greene and McCluster.

Teams usually need more than 2 RB's on their roster.

Still doesn't explain reaching for a RB in the 2nd rather picking up one for depth late or as an UDFA.

 

[Todem]

What's obvious is that the narrative defending Greene is the same one detracting Sankey, or will eventually be used to detract Sankey if he ever has a Greene career

That's better. It makes some sense, but I think Sankey's issues and Greene' issues kind of inversely compliment eachother. The issue for Sankey is Mccluster can also play that role and likely will. Look at Woodhead last year for Whisenhunt. I think if Sankey can show he can play early downs between the 20s he will, what that means for his numbers is a good question. Someone said they're looking at him as an RB2 with RB1 upside this season. I wouldn't bet on that.

What does McCluster bring to the table that would put Sankey on the bench on 3rd downs?

Superior receiving and open field ability.

The way you're describing the situation it makes me wonder why the Titans wasted their 2nd round pick instead of going into the season with Greene and McCluster.

Teams usually need more than 2 RB's on their roster.

So you're saying they reached in the 2nd round to take a 3rd RB for depth?LMFAO.

They drafted him to be a big contributor. Whether that happens or not remains to be seen. But you don't take a RB in the second round because your happy with Greene as your starter and McCluster as your back up.

Holly cannoli.

 

[cstu]

They drafted him to be a big contributor. Whether that happens or not remains to be seen. But you don't take a RB in the second round because your happy with Greene as your starter and McCluster as your back up.

Even if you don't believe in Sankey's talent you have to admit the Titans drafted him with the intent of being their starter.

 

[werdnoynek]

What's obvious is that the narrative defending Greene is the same one detracting Sankey, or will eventually be used to detract Sankey if he ever has a Greene career

That's better. It makes some sense, but I think Sankey's issues and Greene' issues kind of inversely compliment eachother. The issue for Sankey is Mccluster can also play that role and likely will. Look at Woodhead last year for Whisenhunt. I think if Sankey can show he can play early downs between the 20s he will, what that means for his numbers is a good question. Someone said they're looking at him as an RB2 with RB1 upside this season. I wouldn't bet on that.

What does McCluster bring to the table that would put Sankey on the bench on 3rd downs?

Superior receiving and open field ability.

The way you're describing the situation it makes me wonder why the Titans wasted their 2nd round pick instead of going into the season with Greene and McCluster.

Teams usually need more than 2 RB's on their roster.

Still doesn't explain reaching for a RB in the 2nd rather picking up one for depth late or as an UDFA.

How is it a reach? Historically it was one of longest waits for the first RB taken. Why did the Bengals do the same, or the Rams?

IMO, I think the Titans, similar to many in here, saw his combine numbers and felt he was something he isn't.

 

[nirad3]

So wait, Dexter McCluster = Danny Woodhead?

 

[werdnoynek]

So wait, Dexter McCluster = Danny Woodhead?

Why not?

 

[nirad3]

So wait, Dexter McCluster = Danny Woodhead?

Why not?

Better question: why?

Because he's in the Whisenhunt offense?

I think it's pretty presumptuous to automatically give McCluster all of Woodhead's looks in this offense.

Not saying he won't or can't, but you have a RB in Sankey that is quite adept at catching the ball out of the backfield.

I just find it silly that folks are worried about a journeyman RB in Shonn Greene that was really just brought in to be a "just in case" kind of guy, and a 170-pound (soaking wet) "RB" that was supposedly going to be a nifty part of the Chiefs offense (and never was).

Just my opinion.

 

[werdnoynek]

So wait, Dexter McCluster = Danny Woodhead?

Why not?

Better question: why?

Because he's in the Whisenhunt offense?

I think it's pretty presumptuous to automatically give McCluster all of Woodhead's looks in this offense.

Not saying he won't or can't, but you have a RB in Sankey that is quite adept at catching the ball out of the backfield.

I just find it silly that folks are worried about a journeyman RB in Shonn Greene that was really just brought in to be a "just in case" kind of guy, and a 170-pound (soaking wet) "RB" that was supposedly going to be a nifty part of the Chiefs offense (and never was).

Just my opinion.

The 170 lb wet "RB" ran with more authority and decisiveness than Sankey did between the tackles yesterday. We know he can catch. The issue with Mccluster in KC was that he was misused in the wrong role. He excelled at Ole Miss as a RB and a receiver out of the backfield, I don't see any reason why Whisenhunt wouldn't use him as a guy like Woodhead.

 

[nirad3]

So wait, Dexter McCluster = Danny Woodhead?

Why not?

Better question: why?

Because he's in the Whisenhunt offense?

I think it's pretty presumptuous to automatically give McCluster all of Woodhead's looks in this offense.

Not saying he won't or can't, but you have a RB in Sankey that is quite adept at catching the ball out of the backfield.

I just find it silly that folks are worried about a journeyman RB in Shonn Greene that was really just brought in to be a "just in case" kind of guy, and a 170-pound (soaking wet) "RB" that was supposedly going to be a nifty part of the Chiefs offense (and never was).

Just my opinion.

The 170 lb wet "RB" ran with more authority and decisiveness than Sankey did between the tackles yesterday. We know he can catch. The issue with Mccluster in KC was that he was misused in the wrong role. He excelled at Ole Miss as a RB and a receiver out of the backfield, I don't see any reason why Whisenhunt wouldn't use him as a guy like Woodhead.

Fair enough, we'll see what happens when it's not the first game of the preseason with the #1's out there.

And if you're right, McCluster may just be the steal of the draft at his current ADP.

 

[menobrown]

So wait, Dexter McCluster = Danny Woodhead?

Why not?

Better question: why?

Because he's in the Whisenhunt offense?

I think it's pretty presumptuous to automatically give McCluster all of Woodhead's looks in this offense.

Not saying he won't or can't, but you have a RB in Sankey that is quite adept at catching the ball out of the backfield.

I just find it silly that folks are worried about a journeyman RB in Shonn Greene that was really just brought in to be a "just in case" kind of guy, and a 170-pound (soaking wet) "RB" that was supposedly going to be a nifty part of the Chiefs offense (and never was).

Just my opinion.

The 170 lb wet "RB" ran with more authority and decisiveness than Sankey did between the tackles yesterday. We know he can catch. The issue with Mccluster in KC was that he was misused in the wrong role. He excelled at Ole Miss as a RB and a receiver out of the backfield, I don't see any reason why Whisenhunt wouldn't use him as a guy like Woodhead.

Because Woodhead is about 30 pounds heavier and can actually run between the tackles. McCluster goes down to easy and yes I saw his run from the other night and him getting his helmet knocked off. Big deal.

McCluster being misused is a flimsy premise. Did he not have 3 head coaches and 3 different OC's? At some point you got to realize it's not them, its' him.

 

[nirad3]

So wait, Dexter McCluster = Danny Woodhead?

Why not?

Better question: why?

Because he's in the Whisenhunt offense?

I think it's pretty presumptuous to automatically give McCluster all of Woodhead's looks in this offense.

Not saying he won't or can't, but you have a RB in Sankey that is quite adept at catching the ball out of the backfield.

I just find it silly that folks are worried about a journeyman RB in Shonn Greene that was really just brought in to be a "just in case" kind of guy, and a 170-pound (soaking wet) "RB" that was supposedly going to be a nifty part of the Chiefs offense (and never was).

Just my opinion.

The 170 lb wet "RB" ran with more authority and decisiveness than Sankey did between the tackles yesterday. We know he can catch. The issue with Mccluster in KC was that he was misused in the wrong role. He excelled at Ole Miss as a RB and a receiver out of the backfield, I don't see any reason why Whisenhunt wouldn't use him as a guy like Woodhead.

Because Woodhead is about 30 pounds heavier and can actually run between the tackles. McCluster goes down to easy and yes I saw his run from the other night and him getting his helmet knocked off. Big deal.

McCluster being misused is a flimsy premise. Did he not have 3 head coaches and 3 different OC's? At some point you got to realize it's not them, its' him.

Yeah, and then there's all of that...

 

[Brewtown]

Hey Werdnoynek - stop peeing in the pool...

 

[Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub]

Hey Werdnoynek - stop peeing in the pool... telling me what I don't want to hear

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Werdnoyek,

You have yet to make a convincing argument for Sankey being a sub par RB yet having so much success in college. You say he is not good at running through the tackles, not good in the open field and not good at seeing holes. Do you think he would have been as successful in college if he was not at least good at those things?

Are you saying he should have ran for 2500 yards last year and had a 8 ypc clip? I mean his numbers in college were excellent for a variety of reasons and 1 of those justified reasons is he is a relentless worker who is an above average athlete as the combine numbers proved this.

I can show you plenty of clips where Sankey shows excellent balance, vision and tackle breaking ability. You will just counter it with arguments such as it was against inferior competition or find some clips where he made the wrong play (even though you can do this with every rb at every level).

You then counter the positive argument that he was the first RB taken in the draft by saying it was a historically bad draft for rb's.

Then many in here are pointing out that the Titans let Chris Johnson walk to make room for drafting Sankey and making him a big part of their offence. You then say hey they have Greene and Mccluster who are both better at Sankey at respective things.

You are not giving Sankey any credit for being great in college, having a good combine and being drafted to a team that is looking for a play maker in the back field and had the whole draft class to pick from and they picked him.

So once again just because you say something more than one time it does not mean it is true. It is clear to many in here as well as the Titans organization that he is capable and was better than average at all the negatives you seem to be pointing out.

I compared Sankey to McCoy who had a sub par rookie year, was not as good at Sankey in college, was drafted in an identical spot and had many of the same questions Sankey is facing now when entering the league. You then turn that into how dare anyone compare Sankey to McCoy even though they share so many of the same things.

Now you can keep claiming that you watched him at Washington and have seen all these flaws but the resume and what has transpired is not making your argument very strong at this stage.

 

[Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub]

So wait, Dexter McCluster = Danny Woodhead?

Why not?

Better question: why?

Because he's in the Whisenhunt offense?

I think it's pretty presumptuous to automatically give McCluster all of Woodhead's looks in this offense.

Not saying he won't or can't, but you have a RB in Sankey that is quite adept at catching the ball out of the backfield.

I just find it silly that folks are worried about a journeyman RB in Shonn Greene that was really just brought in to be a "just in case" kind of guy, and a 170-pound (soaking wet) "RB" that was supposedly going to be a nifty part of the Chiefs offense (and never was).

Just my opinion.

The 170 lb wet "RB" ran with more authority and decisiveness than Sankey did between the tackles yesterday. We know he can catch. The issue with Mccluster in KC was that he was misused in the wrong role. He excelled at Ole Miss as a RB and a receiver out of the backfield, I don't see any reason why Whisenhunt wouldn't use him as a guy like Woodhead.

Because Woodhead is about 30 pounds heavier and can actually run between the tackles. McCluster goes down to easy and yes I saw his run from the other night and him getting his helmet knocked off. Big deal.

McCluster being misused is a flimsy premise. Did he not have 3 head coaches and 3 different OC's? At some point you got to realize it's not them, its' him.

How dare they play Jamaal Charles over Dexter and move him to WR to get him on the field. The nerve.

 

[Brewtown]

Ken Wisenhunt - on conditions tonight changing Bishop Sankey’s role

We expected to give him some work. You know, things got distorted a little bit. Our rotational plan changed a little bit when the conditions changed. That affected us, but I think what we wanted to see out of Bishop is a good start. This by no means answered a lot questions, but it helped to start to answer some of them.

RB BISHOP SANKEY - on playing in his first game

I felt comfortable once I got out there and kind of got in the groove of things. It’s all about improving and looking back and seeing my mistakes and correcting those for the next week. I was expecting anything. As many times as they wanted to give me the ball, that’s what I was willing to do tonight. It kind of just went that way. We were able to put that good drive together and take the lead. It felt good out there. What worked for me tonight was finding those little holes and creases, and just really driving the ball down the field. With monsoon -like weather, as a running back you do get the opportunity to run the ball more. I think all running backs like that.

(on getting a touchdown catch)

It felt really good. The first touchdown is something that I’d dreamt about. Having your first NFL touchdown. And celebrating with my teammates and just taking that moment in, was really cool.

 

[werdnoynek]

So wait, Dexter McCluster = Danny Woodhead?

Why not?

Better question: why?

Because he's in the Whisenhunt offense?

I think it's pretty presumptuous to automatically give McCluster all of Woodhead's looks in this offense.

Not saying he won't or can't, but you have a RB in Sankey that is quite adept at catching the ball out of the backfield.

I just find it silly that folks are worried about a journeyman RB in Shonn Greene that was really just brought in to be a "just in case" kind of guy, and a 170-pound (soaking wet) "RB" that was supposedly going to be a nifty part of the Chiefs offense (and never was).

Just my opinion.

The 170 lb wet "RB" ran with more authority and decisiveness than Sankey did between the tackles yesterday. We know he can catch. The issue with Mccluster in KC was that he was misused in the wrong role. He excelled at Ole Miss as a RB and a receiver out of the backfield, I don't see any reason why Whisenhunt wouldn't use him as a guy like Woodhead.

Because Woodhead is about 30 pounds heavier and can actually run between the tackles. McCluster goes down to easy and yes I saw his run from the other night and him getting his helmet knocked off. Big deal.

McCluster being misused is a flimsy premise. Did he not have 3 head coaches and 3 different OC's? At some point you got to realize it's not them, its' him.

Whisenhunt thought it was a big deal...

I wanted to get Dexter (McCluster) a couple of carries and see how he handled that. It just so happened that he had a good run right at the end of that first quarter, so at that point I felt like that was what we wanted to accomplish and made the change. I didnt intend to do that.

From his presser -http://www.titansonline.com/news/article-1/Whisenhunt-Reflects-on-Preseason-Opener/fe6c40a7-51dc-4206-b8b0-150cdb39e4c1

 

[werdnoynek]

Werdnoyek,

You have yet to make a convincing argument for Sankey being a sub par RB yet having so much success in college. You say he is not good at running through the tackles, not good in the open field and not good at seeing holes. Do you think he would have been as successful in college if he was not at least good at those things?

Are you saying he should have ran for 2500 yards last year and had a 8 ypc clip? I mean his numbers in college were excellent for a variety of reasons and 1 of those justified reasons is he is a relentless worker who is an above average athlete as the combine numbers proved this.

I can show you plenty of clips where Sankey shows excellent balance, vision and tackle breaking ability. You will just counter it with arguments such as it was against inferior competition or find some clips where he made the wrong play (even though you can do this with every rb at every level).

You then counter the positive argument that he was the first RB taken in the draft by saying it was a historically bad draft for rb's.

Then many in here are pointing out that the Titans let Chris Johnson walk to make room for drafting Sankey and making him a big part of their offence. You then say hey they have Greene and Mccluster who are both better at Sankey at respective things.

You are not giving Sankey any credit for being great in college, having a good combine and being drafted to a team that is looking for a play maker in the back field and had the whole draft class to pick from and they picked him.

So once again just because you say something more than one time it does not mean it is true. It is clear to many in here as well as the Titans organization that he is capable and was better than average at all the negatives you seem to be pointing out.

I compared Sankey to McCoy who had a sub par rookie year, was not as good at Sankey in college, was drafted in an identical spot and had many of the same questions Sankey is facing now when entering the league. You then turn that into how dare anyone compare Sankey to McCoy even though they share so many of the same things.

Now you can keep claiming that you watched him at Washington and have seen all these flaws but the resume and what has transpired is not making your argument very strong at this stage.

I know what I saw. Stats and college production do not always equal success in the NFL. I don't think he's going to live up to his ADP this season, nor be the #1 back in this class when it's all said and done. I think he can have success, but not the kind most in here seem to think.

 

[cstu]

I know what I saw. Stats and college production do not always equal success in the NFL. I don't think he's going to live up to his ADP this season, nor be the #1 back in this class when it's all said and done. I think he can have success, but not the kind most in here seem to think.

Is this unreasonable: 250 carries for 1000 yards, 50 receptions for 400 yards?

That's about what a washed up Chris Johnson had on this team last year and he was the #9 RB in PPR.

 

[werdnoynek]

I know what I saw. Stats and college production do not always equal success in the NFL. I don't think he's going to live up to his ADP this season, nor be the #1 back in this class when it's all said and done. I think he can have success, but not the kind most in here seem to think.

Is this unreasonable: 250 carries for 1000 yards, 50 receptions for 400 yards?

That's about what a washed up Chris Johnson had on this team last year and he was the #9 RB in PPR.

Seems pretty optimistic.

 

[cstu]

I know what I saw. Stats and college production do not always equal success in the NFL. I don't think he's going to live up to his ADP this season, nor be the #1 back in this class when it's all said and done. I think he can have success, but not the kind most in here seem to think.

Is this unreasonable: 250 carries for 1000 yards, 50 receptions for 400 yards?

That's about what a washed up Chris Johnson had on this team last year and he was the #9 RB in PPR.

Seems pretty optimistic.

Here's how I look at the situation:

Greene is one dimensional and will be used like he was last year - I see him with around 100 carries and a handful of receptions.

McCluster is a glorified WR like Sproles and should have about 50 receptions but not many carries.

Sankey is the most well-rounded back on the team so I expect him to be used on non-short yardage 1st and 2nd downs and splitting 3rd down with McCluster.

Given how much Whisenhunt likes throwing to RB's and Sankey's receiving ability it seem very possible to me.

Greene could do to Sankey what BJGE did to Gio, but Gio was trying to take job of the previous season's starter while Greene was a role player last year.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Greene is one dimensional and will be used like he was last year - I see him with around 100 carries.

TEN is going to give its starting RB 6 carries a game?

 

[werdnoynek]

Greene is one dimensional and will be used like he was last year - I see him with around 100 carries.

TEN is going to give its starting RB 6 carries a game?

Great question.

 

[Todem]

If Shonne Greene holds on to the starting gig all year I will be shocked beyond shocked.

Ordinary one dimensional back who also is soft for a big guy. Sankey should be able to leap right over that bum no later than week 2 or 3 of the regular season if not sooner.

Greene stinks. He will never be a true feature back (nor has he ever been) and will never give you chunk yardage plays, and is a lousy pass catcher.

This has Sankey's show written all over it in short order. I don't own Sankey in any league. In fact I have McCluster on a few and expect little to nothing out of him as well (lotto ticket pick up last year on the wire in the hope he can be a decent PPR fill in on bye weeks). They drafted this kid to be their feature back. It's obvious.

 

[jurb26]

Hold on a minute. Are people really trying to convince themselves and us that Shonne Greene is worth a damn? Oh my.

 

[Todem]

Hold on a minute. Are people really trying to convince themselves and us that Shonne Greene is worth a damn? Oh my.

Incredibly yes.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Hold on a minute. Are people really trying to convince themselves and us that Shonne Greene is worth a damn? Oh my.

Incredibly yes.

Well, aren't you two just having yourselves some good sport.

TEN appears ready to use whatever RB gets the job done. That's why Sankey is their RB3 right now and not their RB1. Sankey showed nothing that made him ready to be the primary back against GB. Until the scrubs were in on D he was the least productive of the top 3 RBs. Greene and McCluster looked like a completely capable RBBC, while Sankey was barely managing 2 ypc, and was running small doing it.

Did you see Jerrod Bush tackle him on the play he danced and then bounced wide right? Bush threw a hand at his ankle and Sankey barely got his other foot down in time or he would have done a face plant.

I know how biased you guys are, but what exactly did you see prior to GB 3rd stringers playing that made you think Sankey is better than Greene running the ball or McCluster in the CoP role?

 

[Brewtown]

Hold on a minute. Are people really trying to convince themselves and us that Shonne Greene is worth a damn? Oh my.

Incredibly yes.

Well, aren't you two just having yourselves some good sport.

TEN appears ready to use whatever RB gets the job done. That's why Sankey is their RB3 right now and not their RB1. Sankey showed nothing that made him ready to be the primary back against GB. Until the scrubs were in on D he was the least productive of the top 3 RBs. Greene and McCluster looked like a completely capable RBBC, while Sankey was barely managing 2 ypc, and was running small doing it.

Did you see Jerrod Bush tackle him on the play he danced and then bounced wide right? Bush threw a hand at his ankle and Sankey barely got his other foot down in time or he would have done a face plant.

I know how biased you guys are, but what exactly did you see prior to GB 3rd stringers playing that made you think Sankey is better than Greene running the ball or McCluster in the CoP role?

Bronco Billy - I believe that this is not your first year playing fantasy football. If it is I apologize for my assumption. Mostly every year these depth chart scenarios pop up with the rookie having to work his way up the ladder. This is par for the course...

The good news is that we will have a winner in this debate, and not too far down the line either...

Sankey vs Greene/McCluster....

My money is on Sankey - bet the farm all day every day...

Notice that I did not give a wishy-washy/flip-flop type answer, and that I also did not stutter...

You seem to like to play both sides of the fence...

 

[Bronco Billy]

Hold on a minute. Are people really trying to convince themselves and us that Shonne Greene is worth a damn? Oh my.

Incredibly yes.

Well, aren't you two just having yourselves some good sport. TEN appears ready to use whatever RB gets the job done. That's why Sankey is their RB3 right now and not their RB1. Sankey showed nothing that made him ready to be the primary back against GB. Until the scrubs were in on D he was the least productive of the top 3 RBs. Greene and McCluster looked like a completely capable RBBC, while Sankey was barely managing 2 ypc, and was running small doing it.

Did you see Jerrod Bush tackle him on the play he danced and then bounced wide right? Bush threw a hand at his ankle and Sankey barely got his other foot down in time or he would have done a face plant.

I know how biased you guys are, but what exactly did you see prior to GB 3rd stringers playing that made you think Sankey is better than Greene running the ball or McCluster in the CoP role?

Bronco Billy - I believe that this is not your first year playing fantasy football. If it is I apologize for my assumption. Mostly every year these depth chart scenarios pop up with the rookie having to work his way up the ladder. This is par for the course...

I'd respond in kind to your response but I'd likely get suspended. I got 3 days off for calling a guy a tool after he openly wished a player would utterly fail in his career. I don't know how you pull this kind of crap off here without some appropriate re-education.Your acumen speaks for itself. I'll let it stand at that.

.

 

[BoltzNBrew]

He put the T in Stankey. He looked small and not explosive or elusive at all. Might want to change the title of this thread to 7th best RB in the draft because he showed nothing to indicate he's the #1 back in this class.

 

[Leonidas]

This entire thread sucks.

I feel like I just wasted who knows how much time just so that I could read a few people trying to out-do one another with inventive name calling.

 

[Moonlight]

Based on this game.

Average power may be his peak running the ball though usually fell forward. Wet field may not be his best showcase. Need to see him on drier field or on carpet. Inconclusive.

Caught the ball well. TD catch. On another came back to QB and made a nice catch and run on his long gainer. Appeared NFL ready.

 

[Noah Davis]

I have successfully lowered my IQ to a level of borderline mentally handicapped by reading this thread.

 

[kutta]

What's obvious is that the narrative defending Greene is the same one detracting Sankey, or will eventually be used to detract Sankey if he ever has a Greene career

That's better. It makes some sense, but I think Sankey's issues and Greene' issues kind of inversely compliment eachother. The issue for Sankey is Mccluster can also play that role and likely will. Look at Woodhead last year for Whisenhunt. I think if Sankey can show he can play early downs between the 20s he will, what that means for his numbers is a good question. Someone said they're looking at him as an RB2 with RB1 upside this season. I wouldn't bet on that.

What does McCluster bring to the table that would put Sankey on the bench on 3rd downs?

Superior receiving and open field ability.

The way you're describing the situation it makes me wonder why the Titans wasted their 2nd round pick instead of going into the season with Greene and McCluster.

Teams usually need more than 2 RB's on their roster.

Still doesn't explain reaching for a RB in the 2nd rather picking up one for depth late or as an UDFA.

How is it a reach? Historically it was one of longest waits for the first RB taken. Why did the Bengals do the same, or the Rams? IMO, I think the Titans, similar to many in here, saw his combine numbers and felt he was something he isn't.

Wait, what?Are you seriously insinuating that you are a better scout than the entire Texans' scouting department and coaching staff?

 

[biju]

To the folks who think he'll lose 3rd downs to McCluster, I think they are partially correct. I really don't think McCluster is a real threat as a RB so the only 3rd downs he makes sense in is 3rd and long (obvious passing situations). Otherwise, I'm positive the team wouldn't want to telegraph the call like that.

As someone who is still forming an opinion on the whole situation, I honestly thought Greene looked better than I remembered him. Perhaps it was a better O-line or maybe it was preseason. I liked Sankey's production as a receiver more than as a runner, but keeping in mind this was his first live action I think he deserves a little slack. I'd be a little more concerned if this was preseason week 3 and he looked like this.

 

[werdnoynek]

What's obvious is that the narrative defending Greene is the same one detracting Sankey, or will eventually be used to detract Sankey if he ever has a Greene career

That's better. It makes some sense, but I think Sankey's issues and Greene' issues kind of inversely compliment eachother. The issue for Sankey is Mccluster can also play that role and likely will. Look at Woodhead last year for Whisenhunt. I think if Sankey can show he can play early downs between the 20s he will, what that means for his numbers is a good question. Someone said they're looking at him as an RB2 with RB1 upside this season. I wouldn't bet on that.

What does McCluster bring to the table that would put Sankey on the bench on 3rd downs?

Superior receiving and open field ability.

The way you're describing the situation it makes me wonder why the Titans wasted their 2nd round pick instead of going into the season with Greene and McCluster.

Teams usually need more than 2 RB's on their roster.

Still doesn't explain reaching for a RB in the 2nd rather picking up one for depth late or as an UDFA.

How is it a reach? Historically it was one of longest waits for the first RB taken. Why did the Bengals do the same, or the Rams?IMO, I think the Titans, similar to many in here, saw his combine numbers and felt he was something he isn't.

Wait, what?Are you seriously insinuating that you are a better scout than the entire Texans' scouting department and coaching staff?

Absolutely not, I'm just giving my opinion. They clearly saw something they liked, after a combine like his I'd hazard to guess that was probably it... I just don't think, looking at him play in game, he plays to his combine numbers or his college statistics. That's what I saw.

Look, I know they're going to give him every opportunity to be "the guy", as they should considering where they drafted him. I'm of the belief that he doesn't have ability to be who they think he is.

I also don't think he's the guy many people who are drafting him as the #2 dynasty rookie think he is.

Nor is he the guy the people taking him as RB22 in redraft think he is - he's being taken around Gerhart, Gore, Jennings, CJ1k, Tate, and Richardson. I think that is just looney.

 

[jurb26]

If you think NFL teams place that much emphasis on the combine I think you're way off base. The combine is nowhere near as important as the actual game film to NFL teams. Let's remember that NFL teams have access to ALL of the footage on these players, including coaches tape which is a far better analysis tool.

 

[maf005]

This entire thread sucks.

I feel like I just wasted who knows how much time just so that I could read a few people trying to out-do one another with inventive name calling.

I have successfully lowered my IQ to a level of borderline mentally handicapped by reading this thread.

This.

There is not one useful bit of information or analysis in the past 500+ posts. Think about that, especially if you are one of the posters who have contributed to the unnecessarily high post count.

All of the ####-waving and one-upsmanship is a significant detriment to the forums

 

[biju]

If you think NFL teams place that much emphasis on the combine I think you're way off base. The combine is nowhere near as important as the actual game film to NFL teams. Let's remember that NFL teams have access to ALL of the footage on these players, including coaches tape which is a far better analysis tool.

In general (and this isn't meant to be pointed at anyone in this thread) I think there are too many Youtube scouts who simply look at the highlights and create a strong opinion on players. Keep in mind just 8 months ago everyone was clamoring for Lache Seastrunk as a feature back. The guy is an after thought now.