Rattle and Hum
Footballguy
It is not necessarily a lateral move. Here is a interesting article which discusses the similarities and difference. YMMV.
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****Official**** depression thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter St. Louis Bob
- Start date
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
So I am finally taking the plunge and trying medication. Anyone with Zoloft experience? Should I really not drink?
Rattle and Hum
Footballguy
Made me loopy. I was pulling out in front of cars and what not. It wasn't for me but is for a lot of folks from what I read. Good luck, LBL.Long Ball Larry said:
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
well, this is really lifting my spirits...
i was planning not to drive for about a week, based on some things that i had read.
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Rattle and Hum
Footballguy
I think the key is to work closely with your medical provider if there are adverse issues that keep you from performing a normal life after a week and a couple weekends. I did not do this until I had an accident (first one at fault in my adult life). Personally, Ive tolerated SSRIs better (and can drink on them) but always start getting headaches after extended use. Since Pristiq is now offered as a generic, I'd keep that on your list of things to try if the Zoloft doesn't work for you. Wellbutrin, Pristiq, Lexapro, Prozac, etc good to discuss with the doc. Also, I would advise staying off the Google to look these up as you'll get the 5% of horror stories. Also, message board advice might stink as well, ymmv. I hope you find relief, GB.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
With SSRIs, metabolization is the key. Don't be afraid to switch until you find one that suits you. That's a big part of why there are so many of them. And don't hasten to surrender the rest of your life to them. I count the day i stopped Prozac (prescribed to help me w grief when my wife died) as almost as important as the day i started. But be flexible with it - it aint the cure and it aint a sentence. It's a tool, a ramp over destructive impulses. GL -
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CurlyNight
Footballguy
Lexapro and Celexa are great meds and have generics. They're in the same family. Zoloft caused a bad side effect on my cousin. She felt power surges in her muscles and sickly. She started on 50mg dose which sounded high to me. One thing to consider is if you are ever hospitalized (not psych hospital)what the hospital pharmacy has. The hospital here has Lexapro which she did well on even though she takes Celexa.
It really is try and see but when I see the word Zoloft, Pristiq or Effexor, I cringe from experience. GL to you.
It really is try and see but when I see the word Zoloft, Pristiq or Effexor, I cringe from experience. GL to you.
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Peak
Footballguy
Similar to @Rattle and Hum, but I get dizzy spells - almost like vertigo. It happens sporadically, and catches me off guard. It happened recently while I was driving and I had to pull over until it passed. I have a checkup scheduled next month with the doc, so I'll be looking for other options. It used to happen only at night when I knew I'd be at home. This last one really shook me and I'm glad the kids weren't in the car.Long Ball Larry said:
badmojo1006
Footballguy
Not a fan of Lexapro. Was taking this when I had my first suicide attempt. GL Larry, hope you find the right medication
Jayrod
Footballguy
Getting my ### kicked lately.
I honestly can't fathom what has triggered it, but I'm being hit hard with irrational anxiety and feeling overwhelmed almost all day long.
The biggest problem to me is that life is good. No family issues, no health issues, I have a good job, finances are in decent shape and yet, I spend the majority of my day with an internal state of panic. It is starting to effect my work and life in general due to the mental exhaustion it takes to get anything productive done.
It sucks, but I'm going to have to go back to my doctor and get back on something. I have gone several months without needing anything and then this just feels like it came out of no where.
Super frustrating.
I honestly can't fathom what has triggered it, but I'm being hit hard with irrational anxiety and feeling overwhelmed almost all day long.
The biggest problem to me is that life is good. No family issues, no health issues, I have a good job, finances are in decent shape and yet, I spend the majority of my day with an internal state of panic. It is starting to effect my work and life in general due to the mental exhaustion it takes to get anything productive done.
It sucks, but I'm going to have to go back to my doctor and get back on something. I have gone several months without needing anything and then this just feels like it came out of no where.
Super frustrating.
CurlyNight
Footballguy
Sorry to hear. I'm no doc but if all is well and it came back, it could be a chemical imbalance. Good idea to see your psychiatrist asap. Good luck. Xx
badmojo1006
Footballguy
Sorry to hear. I hate when that happens. Walking down the street, whistling a tune and depression kneecaps you.
Hope you find the right balance
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
So I started taking Zoloft about 5 months ago. I was very apprehensive, but things had just gotten to a point where I needed to do something. I am honestly sorry that I did not try it sooner. It really helped as a buttress and I stopped getting so dragged down by what felt like the perpetual quotidian drudgery. Just a continual malaise, even though I was totally functional, that was a weight on everything I thought and did. And the Zoloft definitely lifted that and let me get back to a much better baseline state.
Then in July, I started taking a mindfulness meditation class and I have now meditated every day for about 2 months, and that has really lifted me to a whole new place of clarity and freedom. Kind of like I had previously been in quicksand all the time, able to think about what I needed to do and to do what was right around me, but could not move anywhere. And the Zoloft let the quicksand dissipate so that I could at least feel free to lift myself out and entertain the possibility of other ways of being. And then the meditation let me orient toward the world in such a different way, not in a thinking way, and not exactly in an emotional way, but on a level of sensory perception that felt attuned to a different wavelength. Like all my life I had been trying to think my way to the truth, tearing down the cognitive biases bit by bit, whereas approaching it in a way of mindfulness just let the artifice fall away and the "truth" be seen. And just have this great sense of clarity about what to value and how to organize and arrange the qualia of the universe, and how to just unhook from the identity of thought. And I really think that being trapped in that strict identity with thought, the constant mulling and belief that I could continue to accrue marginal improvements that way, is eventually what led me into the quagmire and paralysis. And that paralysis led to anxiety (even though I never really "felt" anxious physiologically) but manifested a general existential or nihilistic melancholy that continually hung around me.
I think/hope that at some point I will stop taking the Zoloft and I have really only scratched the surface with meditation. I think that the meditation could be the salve in and of itself, though I will never know for sure if I could have been as open and able to it without the medication. Anyway, I guess my point is that I used to be very averse to medication, but I have to say that I now would definitely recommend that anyone at least consider it (within a planned treatment) and that I really do believe that mindfulness meditation is a powerful antidote for the negative thought patterns and thought spirals that I think the depressed are particularly prone to.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
The myth of mastery. Because a person must master some things to have a "quality" life, it is a natural assumption that mastery is the optimal outlook on everything. That is a trap. Humility is the path to freedom and happiness. Yes, i can master many people & things and strive mightily and reach a point where i can drive an incredible sports car with a decorous companion to the top of a Mediterranean promontory to sample great wines and nonpareil tweezer dishes of incomparable food. Or i can understand the simple bliss of sinking my teeth into a ripe peach on a lazy afternoon. Free of care, free to care, able to make as much of bad luck as good. We won't learn, doesn't mean you can't. Well done.
Binky The Doormat
Footballguy
hellzya.wikkidpissah said:
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Are you a Ram Dass fan, out of curiosity?wikkidpissah said:
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
no
ETA: if i have a philosophy, it's stoicism. you can't love properly until you can do without it, taking life personally is an extraordinary waste of time, yaddayaddayadda...
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Rattle and Hum
Footballguy
@Long Ball Larry Thanks for sharing your success with the pharmas & meditation. It's great to hear that you are doing well. I'm wondering if you would share what this looks like in practice for you? How long you do it, anything you listen to that helps, do you repeat a particular mantra, eyes closed, focus on a particular object, stand on your head while wearing a kilt, etc, etc. It feels like something that may help me if I was disciplined enough to do it.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
The Buddhists know what they're talking about. Glad to hear you're doing well.
CurlyNight
Footballguy
There's something to be said about combining eastern and western medicine for mental well being.
Peace of mind, understanding not everything is under our control, seeing what you have vs what you don't. Buddhists live the simplest lives. They don't worry about stuff. My bro intends to move to Tibet once me, dad and mom are gone. He is our healer as he's calm, compassionate , loving and grateful no matter what. He's my idol and a gift. I strive to be like him but in this crazy life and a family where we are 2 black sheeps, it can be a struggle. It's the main reason I live alone and he lives alone by choice.
I hope everyone here struggling can find the right combo in taking care of your mental health. Imo that's more important than physical health. If you are in poor physical condition or physically disabled, you'll be able to handle it better. My bro and I work on our dad and after 2.5 years post stroke, he's learning and doing much better. He's not as depressed and understands in his case it is what it is. We're working on the be grateful for what he has which is 2 excellent caring caregivers that come to his home, a PT now friend, loving family especially a son who has been there every minute he could day or night despite living over an hour away in LA.
Best wishes to you all. Xx
Peace of mind, understanding not everything is under our control, seeing what you have vs what you don't. Buddhists live the simplest lives. They don't worry about stuff. My bro intends to move to Tibet once me, dad and mom are gone. He is our healer as he's calm, compassionate , loving and grateful no matter what. He's my idol and a gift. I strive to be like him but in this crazy life and a family where we are 2 black sheeps, it can be a struggle. It's the main reason I live alone and he lives alone by choice.
I hope everyone here struggling can find the right combo in taking care of your mental health. Imo that's more important than physical health. If you are in poor physical condition or physically disabled, you'll be able to handle it better. My bro and I work on our dad and after 2.5 years post stroke, he's learning and doing much better. He's not as depressed and understands in his case it is what it is. We're working on the be grateful for what he has which is 2 excellent caring caregivers that come to his home, a PT now friend, loving family especially a son who has been there every minute he could day or night despite living over an hour away in LA.
Best wishes to you all. Xx
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
It's actually a little more complicated to explain than you might think, because I think you need to understand a little bit about the philosophy, but let me try to summarize.Rattle and Hum said:
To start with, the founder of Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction is Jon Kabat-Zinn (who I didn't really know anything about before taking this class). He is a psychologist who was familiar with yoga and buddhist meditation. He studied the effects of meditation on stress, anxiety, depression and pain, and then wanted to develop a secular version of the mindfulness meditation practice that could be more widely disseminated.
The course that I did was basically the following:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness-based_stress_reduction
What this looks like in practice for me is usually a meditation session in the morning and one in the evening. I usually do a short one in the morning (like 10 minutes) and then a long one in the evening (20-30 minutes). On the weekends, I might reverse that, or just do one that is at least 30 minutes. The most important thing is really to at least do something each day, because keeping the routine is really key to essentially adjusting the neural pathways. The meditation sessions typically start with getting into the felt sense of the body and out of your head. (The thing that really broke it wide open for me was the teacher's discussion about automatic thinking and how we self-identify so much with our thoughts, rather than the more natural world. You can jump to the end of the post to read more about this now, if you want.)
The techniques used all basically focus on the breath and on the body. The start of most sessions is mindful deep breathing, in which you do deep diaphragmatic breathing and extend the out breath. Typically, this will involve counting during the breath to help focus and also to try to get the out breath to be twice as long as the in breath. Sometimes that will continue for the entire session, or sometimes it will cease during the session in favor of the natural breath. The purpose of this deep breathing is that it is a simple exercise that brings calm, removes the focus from thoughts, and washes away or expels stress and tension. The key during the deep breathing or natural breathing is also to be aware of when you start thinking and learn how to just let the thought go and return to the focus on the breath. Practicing this over and over eventually helps to weaken the connection between our automatic thought response and our identity/self. There are some other techniques too, but that seems good enough for now.
It's really fairly simple and doesn't involve anything else. It is simple about being willing to sit down and get away from the distractions of every day life and practice what I described above. The class that I took was all recorded and in the class, we practiced guided meditations of varying lengths. I still use those guided meditation recordings more often than not, though not always and sometimes not for the whole time. I think that the headspace app is pretty good for this and has guided meditations, the first 10 being free. I had tried that out a couple years ago, but stopped for whatever reason. I think that really understanding more about the philosophy helped me to get into the whole practice.
I could probably go on and would be happy to answer more questions, but this already feels too long.
Here is more about automatic thinking:
https://medium.com/personal-growth/how-mindfulness-actually-works-and-why-it-can-change-your-life-b76d889a490
Senor Schmutzig
Footballguy
Save for later...
Rattle and Hum
Footballguy
I've atributed my last two serious, suicidal-thought episodes to drinking. I'm going to try to stop for good but it will be difficult. I've been a weekend warrior for many years now and a 3-day per week guy for a couple decades before that. I drink mostly as a means to escape from my thoughts. I guess it caught up to me . If whacking the mole becomes my next trigger I'll really be torn.
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wikkidpissah
Footballguy
mad support.
acting on one's own behalf should be as regular an endeavor as shaving, mowing the lawn or flipping off people in traffic. sounds foolish, but telling yourself that you are glad it's you in charge of you saves you a lot of crap on the back end. nobody gets to be Rattle & Hum on Oct 5, 2019 but Rattle & Hum. that's a gift even when it feels like a curse and acknowledging same by pledging to take good care of yourself before turning the day over to your robot is a good way to go and it becomes harder to disappoint yourself when you do. Good Luck with this -
TheWalkmen
Footballguy
You can do it. Not drink for good that is, or at least take an extended break. I didn’t drink for 5.5 years, but am back on beer again for almost a year with no issues (I’ve found other ways to deal with anxiety - which the alcohol used to always make 10x worse and created a vicious cycle of worsening anxiety). Good luck. If you don’t exercise, start exercising and perhaps the alcohol won’t have as negative of an impact.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
I hear what you are saying about drinking to escape the thoughts. I definitely used to just want to turn off everything and escape. A few years ago I realized that my body just couldn’t handle it and I could not be effective enough in my daily life feeling tired and sluggish. If I didn’t have that issue (plus trying to keep weight down), not sure if I would have slowed down. It was not from a lack of desire to drink.
good luck and definitely look for some other outlets. You can overcome it.
Major
Footballguy
Same here. I went through a rough patch a few years back and the doc prescribed a small dose of Zoloft to get over the hump (50mg). Worst experience of my life. Felt like a zombie. Almost trapped in my own body without the ability to feel or show emotion. My house could be burning down and I'd just stare at. Comedian telling a funny joke, incapable of laughing. Not only that but I gained 10+ lbs with no change in diet and libido went non existent. Not a good look when you're enjoying the single life. Then tried Wellbutrin but didn't feel anything except never wanting to ever smoke again. For me, meds have done more harm than good but I realize everyone is different and we all have varying needs.
CBT therapy, consistent exercise, socializing and avoiding sugar seem to be the best remedy for me. I never want to go back to meds. It's good motivation to keep my mind and body right.
badmojo1006
Footballguy
Good news post. I turned 61today and I feel great.
And I am raising money for a very good cause
The suicide hot line. I want them to reach as many people as they can.
And I am raising money for a very good cause
The suicide hot line. I want them to reach as many people as they can.
Rattle and Hum
Footballguy
CurlyNight
Footballguy
CurlyNight
Footballguy
Most is rx actually. Even otc stuff is medication that you should discuss with your doctor. You'll want to discuss what may be the best one for you and side effects especially if you have other conditions or are on other meds. No one here is qualified to give medication advice. Only your doctor who knows you does.
Agreed, definitely curious if others feel there is medication that helps for anxiety. Most seem to not, but that's a very small sample.
CurlyNight
Footballguy
There are meds for anxiety like paxil and xanax and others fot both anxiety and depression that work well. If 1 doesn't work, another may. If you have 1 you have the other as well to some degree. The thing with some meds is it needs to build in your system so it could take 6 to 8 weeks to see a result. Then there are those that you take as needed like paxil and xanax where you don't want to become addicted to. That's why you need a doc involved even if it's otc to monitor you for things like high blood pressure and other risks. Every med otc or rx has risks.
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caustic
Footballguy
This post is nearly a year old, but did these work for you? I'm thinking that an effective mood stabilizer would help me out quite a bit. In stressful or confrontational situations I get flooded with way too much adrenaline and it can be pretty incapacitating at times. Super tense, aggressive shaking, followed by exhaustion afterwards. Doesn't really fit the description of "anxiety" so I never looked into taking anything for it. The description for deproloft seems promising but I'm hesitant to drop 50 bucks on something that isn't clinically proven.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Tbh, I can’t really affirmatively say that it ever worked for me. I think I told might have provided a little help initially, but overall didn’t do that much. YMMV
Jayrod
Footballguy
Dealing with some craziness in my own head right now. Work is tense, but when is it not?
I've been on Escitalopram for about 60 days now. It takes the crazy suicidal roller coaster edge off, but the underlying stuff is still prevalent. I really want to sleep in and just drink all day long, but my wife and kids help me keep moving forward every day. Still, I feel like a worker drone. I escape from time to time, usually into TV/movies and booze. I also get to ref football 3 times a week and it is a great escape (and a very positive thing in my life), but I feel lost when I'm doing about anything else, including work.
I'm also flirting with a relationship that could probably push me over the edge if I'm not careful. I've done nothing serious, but have met a former co-worker for lunch 3 times now and the sexual tension keeps escalating. I should just politely back away, but the energy and excitement keeps drawing me back. We connected as friends when we worked together and have a lot of similar likes, humor and personality traits. I enjoy the friendship, but she is younger and decent looking and I'm pretty sure she is interested in something more.
I need to find a counselor but am dragging my feet over time and money. My church has free counselling, but I don't want to go there for this stuff as I see the people there every Sunday.
Just venting a bit. I've made it for years now and things aren't that bad, but I can see the train starting to rock back and forth a bit. Don't want to fly off the rails after a big bump or anything.
I've been on Escitalopram for about 60 days now. It takes the crazy suicidal roller coaster edge off, but the underlying stuff is still prevalent. I really want to sleep in and just drink all day long, but my wife and kids help me keep moving forward every day. Still, I feel like a worker drone. I escape from time to time, usually into TV/movies and booze. I also get to ref football 3 times a week and it is a great escape (and a very positive thing in my life), but I feel lost when I'm doing about anything else, including work.
I'm also flirting with a relationship that could probably push me over the edge if I'm not careful. I've done nothing serious, but have met a former co-worker for lunch 3 times now and the sexual tension keeps escalating. I should just politely back away, but the energy and excitement keeps drawing me back. We connected as friends when we worked together and have a lot of similar likes, humor and personality traits. I enjoy the friendship, but she is younger and decent looking and I'm pretty sure she is interested in something more.
I need to find a counselor but am dragging my feet over time and money. My church has free counselling, but I don't want to go there for this stuff as I see the people there every Sunday.
Just venting a bit. I've made it for years now and things aren't that bad, but I can see the train starting to rock back and forth a bit. Don't want to fly off the rails after a big bump or anything.
Does your wife know about the lunches?
It's probably best to simply end the lunches if you feel temptations. Good luck.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
sounds like you need a coach, ref. looks like regression from here.
we all got that quittin rat ******* inside us, bruh - it's a remnant from our hunter selves, when we'd shut down in anticipation of lean season. can't let it win and certainly don't wanna sabotage all you have cuz fantasies of sumsumn will overthrow your family life and let you off the hook, cuz that is the way of woe, my friend. better to be on the rollercoaster than under it
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
sorry to hear about this. try to focus on having balance and tranquility, which are ultimately way more important than any fleeting pleasures or disturbances. i would definitely suggest looking at some other hobbies or exercise to help get you out of the day to day drudgery. I totally get that feeling.
Feel free to pm me any time with anything (really anyone in this thread).
prosopis
Arizona Chupacabra
I would stop those lunches now before it leads to something that will make things a whole lot worse. I go through episodes of depression myself and I can tell you from personal experience that going through a divorce did not help my symptoms.
Max Power
Footballguy
I can relate to everything you said here. There isn't a one size fits all answer either. I started drinking when I would watch sports, play a video game or just be board. Preatty normal alcohol consumption. Over time I started drinking just to drink and drank almost daily. 5-6 nights a week. I was caught up in a viscous cycle before I knew it. Drink, hungover, drink, hungover. I tried a lot of different things to break the cycle. Some things worked for a short time and some didn't. I had to hit my rock bottom before I could rebuild myself. I hope you don't have to go down the dark hole as far as I did, but we all need to find out own way. Others are here to help.
The start of my climb out of the hole was the hardest. I made a commitment to get more active. Started walking the dogs every day and that led to me interacting with more of my neighbors. I made a couple new friends and felt like a bigger part of my community. I then moved on to going to the gym regularly which was really my saving grace. I felt better about myself, looked better, started to eat better and lost my desire to drink daily. I know the gym isn't for everyone, but I'd suggest trying to be more active. The Ref stuff sounds like a great outlet. Would you consider picking up another sport? Basketball season is about to start.
I also drew a good deal of encouragement and motivation from internet quotes. Many people have gone through this and had these feelings. There are a lot of powerful and uplifting quotes out there. I took comfort in reading some of the things that famous people had overcome. Seeing those success stories was good for me.
The flirting thing is dangerous. Yes it is exciting and probably a nice confidence boost, especially when you're feeling down. The worrisome part is that to maintain that level of excitement the stakes usually have to be raised over time. I've gone down that road with it being harmless in my mind. I had some drunk texts on my phone and my wife (at the time) saw them. While nothing sexual happened, I betrayed her trust and hurt her deeply. It seems like you think this girl will eventually make a pass at you and in my experience it all comes down to how well you know yourself. I personally would have to avoid that situation as my little brain can be very persuasive and my common sense doesn't kick in as well as it should. Best of luck with this one.
I found counseling to be overrated. I went for 3 months. 7 or 8 times total. I didn't get the results I was hoping for with that, but know results will vary for everyone. Venting on the internet worked just as well in my case. Although I think I had identified what was making me depressed, so I was just fighting the breakout of my cycle. If you're uncertain of things, maybe a professional is the way to go.
As others have said, we're here for ya. Stay Strong.
badmojo1006
Footballguy
Been feeling down lately. Nothing exciting me, wondering if there isn't more out there (Not a new car or new job, but a higher plane iof consciousness). Going to see a movie usually cheers me up.
Well, if you are down Joker is not that movie.
Acting was very good but damn, he is messed up. And I felt worse than when I went into the theater.
But since then, realized how absurd it was and feeling ok now.
Well, if you are down Joker is not that movie.
Acting was very good but damn, he is messed up. And I felt worse than when I went into the theater.
But since then, realized how absurd it was and feeling ok now.
Max Power
Footballguy
What are you doing for Halloween? Scaring little kids is a good high. Go get into some mischief.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
It's not hard for this culture to starve someone spiritually, for the old ways are falling away and there is little but illusion & delusion masquerading as spirit offered in its place. And i've repeated over & over on these boards how so much of depression imitates how animals shut down in times of deprivation. The obvious answer is to find a creative outlet, the beauty only you can serve, simple as it may be. The less obvious answer is to give, give of yourself to others in need. I'm not saying you're selfish, but that, like most folk, your giving is done as part of your obligations and have lost their restorative effect. To help strangers is both liberating & focusing if one finds the right way, and there simply is no higher plane of consciousness than generating love and good feeling. GL -badmojo1006 said:
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Angry Beavers
Footballguy
Just need a place to post and maybe someone who is struggling will read this and seek help. I started Lexapro a few weeks ago - I needed it pretty badly for depression and anxiety. I am so thankful I am on something given the world events. It has helped more than I anticipated.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Iirc, I used Lexapro to get me out of a particularly stuck/dark place. Hope it keeps working for you in these uncertain times.
I've mentioned in a couple places the unhappy wife and (assumed) impending layoff due to the virus shutting my projects down.
Reminder to self: keep moving, don't get paralyzed in a bad place. Baby steps towards something/anything good.
Wishing all you people the best of mental and physical health.
