HellToupee
Footballguy
I totally agree . What just spitballing ideas for the Clintonguys to enjoy.
awful funny the Drudge video was pulled
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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
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awful funny the Drudge video was pulled
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Should be noted, Clinton still well ahead in most battleground states...oh they say it's 41/39 here and 42/38 there, Trump isn't actually winning right now.
But he does seem to have closed the numbers a little bit.
But he does seem to have closed the numbers a little bit.
HellToupee
Footballguy
From nbc
Hillary Clinton's Health Scare: 9 Unanswered Questions
As Hillary Clinton's health moves from the fringes to the center of the 2016 presidential campaign, there's a lot we still don't know about her scare this weekend.
Here's what we do know: Clinton was diagnosed with pneumonia on Friday. During a Sept. 11 memorial event on Sunday at Ground Zero, she was unsteady and clearly needed help getting into a van after becoming "overheated and dehydrated." And Clinton canceled a planned to trip to California for Monday while she rests at home.
Hillary Clinton leaves an apartment building Sunday.Andrew Harnik / AP
Clinton's campaign has been tight-lipped about the Sunday incident, releasing only two short statements throughout the day. Many lingering questions could be easily cleared up by the campaign, while others will take time. Here are nine big questions we still have:
1.) Why hide the pneumonia diagnosis?
Clinton suffered a coughing attack last week during an appearance in Cleveland, which she dismissed as seasonal allergies. She received her pneumonia diagnosis on Friday, but the public was not told about it until hours after the incident at the memorial, raising questions about whether Clinton had any plans to ever inform the public. Between the diagnosis and the near-collapse, Clinton appeared at two fundraisers, ran a national security meeting, and held a press conference.
Related: Does Hillary Clinton Have Walking Pneumonia?
Clinton's campaign appears to have, at best, withheld information from the public and — at worst — misled them by aggressively batting down "conspiracy theories" that her coughing fit was anything more than allergies. Opponents are already seeing the incident as proof of their claims that Clinton has been hiding health issues. And others may now be more incredulous of the campaign's statements on her health.
2.) Has Clinton been otherwise ill in recent days?
Has she had pneumonia in the past? Pneumonia is common, but still a potentially dangerous disease that sends about 1 million people to the hospital every year and kills about 50,000, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
3.) Who made the call not to go to the hospital and when?
And did Clinton lose consciousness at all? After leaving the memorial, Clinton went to her daughter Chelsea's apartment and was later examined by her doctor at her own home in Chappaqua, New York. Why was it decided not to visit a hospital immediately?
4.) What is the campaign's position on the protective press pool?
Presidents and presidential candidates have traditionally traveled with a small, rotating group of journalists so the American public can get real-time updates about unexpected incidents — exactly like the one on Sunday. But Clinton left her press pool behind at the Sept. 11 event and kept them in the dark for 90 minutes before providing any information on her whereabouts or health. Clinton has yet to agree to full "protective pool" coverage, which would allow reporters to follow her door-to-door. Will she now?
5.) Will Clinton allow a true protective pool if elected president?
Clinton's health scare is already expected to potentially affect financial markets, but the impact would be far more dramatic if she were president. A 90-minute window with no news about a missing president could lead people to assume the worst. Clinton's, or her campaign's, choice to leave the press pool behind broke with precedent on access — will that change if she's in the White House? Meanwhile, because Clinton has so far not agreed to full coverage, reporters have no way of knowing if she made other stops Sunday.
6.) Does Clinton accept the obligation to inform the public about her health?
Bill Clinton faced questions about his health too, and while he was unforthcoming in 1992, he sat for a detailed interview with the New York Times in 1996. "[T]he public has a right to know the condition of the president's health," Clinton said at the time.
7.) How will this change her schedule going forward?
After canceling plans Monday and Tuesday, Clinton's schedule the rest of week remains up in the air. She is scheduled to appear in Las Vegas on Wednesday and Washington, D.C. Thursday.
8.) Will Clinton's health affect the first debate?
Clinton's first debate with Donald Trump is just over two weeks away, on September 26, so she'll want to be fully recovered by then.
9.) How will voters respond?
Clinton's core vulnerability is that most Americans don't find her honest or trustworthy. Will voters now feel like they've been misled about her health? Or will the vulnerability of the illness make Americans empathize more with someone who often has difficulty connecting.
To be sure, we know vastly more about Clinton's health than we do about Donald Trump's. Not only is the information released by her campaign more comprehensive than that released by his, but Clinton has lived her life in the national spotlight for 25 years.
We have intimate details about her 2012 hospitalization, for instance, because she was secretary of state at the time. Trump has not been subjected to the same kind of scrutiny and has been less forthcoming during his presidential campaign.
Clinton may also face a different standard because of her gender, her defenders say. Many presidential candidates have had health issues, but Clinton defenders say that while enduring health issues can be seen as a sign of persistence in male candidates, it's viewed as a sign of weakness in women.
Hillary Clinton's Health Scare: 9 Unanswered Questions
As Hillary Clinton's health moves from the fringes to the center of the 2016 presidential campaign, there's a lot we still don't know about her scare this weekend.
Here's what we do know: Clinton was diagnosed with pneumonia on Friday. During a Sept. 11 memorial event on Sunday at Ground Zero, she was unsteady and clearly needed help getting into a van after becoming "overheated and dehydrated." And Clinton canceled a planned to trip to California for Monday while she rests at home.
Hillary Clinton leaves an apartment building Sunday.Andrew Harnik / AP
Clinton's campaign has been tight-lipped about the Sunday incident, releasing only two short statements throughout the day. Many lingering questions could be easily cleared up by the campaign, while others will take time. Here are nine big questions we still have:
1.) Why hide the pneumonia diagnosis?
Clinton suffered a coughing attack last week during an appearance in Cleveland, which she dismissed as seasonal allergies. She received her pneumonia diagnosis on Friday, but the public was not told about it until hours after the incident at the memorial, raising questions about whether Clinton had any plans to ever inform the public. Between the diagnosis and the near-collapse, Clinton appeared at two fundraisers, ran a national security meeting, and held a press conference.
Related: Does Hillary Clinton Have Walking Pneumonia?
Clinton's campaign appears to have, at best, withheld information from the public and — at worst — misled them by aggressively batting down "conspiracy theories" that her coughing fit was anything more than allergies. Opponents are already seeing the incident as proof of their claims that Clinton has been hiding health issues. And others may now be more incredulous of the campaign's statements on her health.
2.) Has Clinton been otherwise ill in recent days?
Has she had pneumonia in the past? Pneumonia is common, but still a potentially dangerous disease that sends about 1 million people to the hospital every year and kills about 50,000, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
3.) Who made the call not to go to the hospital and when?
And did Clinton lose consciousness at all? After leaving the memorial, Clinton went to her daughter Chelsea's apartment and was later examined by her doctor at her own home in Chappaqua, New York. Why was it decided not to visit a hospital immediately?
4.) What is the campaign's position on the protective press pool?
Presidents and presidential candidates have traditionally traveled with a small, rotating group of journalists so the American public can get real-time updates about unexpected incidents — exactly like the one on Sunday. But Clinton left her press pool behind at the Sept. 11 event and kept them in the dark for 90 minutes before providing any information on her whereabouts or health. Clinton has yet to agree to full "protective pool" coverage, which would allow reporters to follow her door-to-door. Will she now?
5.) Will Clinton allow a true protective pool if elected president?
Clinton's health scare is already expected to potentially affect financial markets, but the impact would be far more dramatic if she were president. A 90-minute window with no news about a missing president could lead people to assume the worst. Clinton's, or her campaign's, choice to leave the press pool behind broke with precedent on access — will that change if she's in the White House? Meanwhile, because Clinton has so far not agreed to full coverage, reporters have no way of knowing if she made other stops Sunday.
6.) Does Clinton accept the obligation to inform the public about her health?
Bill Clinton faced questions about his health too, and while he was unforthcoming in 1992, he sat for a detailed interview with the New York Times in 1996. "[T]he public has a right to know the condition of the president's health," Clinton said at the time.
7.) How will this change her schedule going forward?
After canceling plans Monday and Tuesday, Clinton's schedule the rest of week remains up in the air. She is scheduled to appear in Las Vegas on Wednesday and Washington, D.C. Thursday.
8.) Will Clinton's health affect the first debate?
Clinton's first debate with Donald Trump is just over two weeks away, on September 26, so she'll want to be fully recovered by then.
9.) How will voters respond?
Clinton's core vulnerability is that most Americans don't find her honest or trustworthy. Will voters now feel like they've been misled about her health? Or will the vulnerability of the illness make Americans empathize more with someone who often has difficulty connecting.
To be sure, we know vastly more about Clinton's health than we do about Donald Trump's. Not only is the information released by her campaign more comprehensive than that released by his, but Clinton has lived her life in the national spotlight for 25 years.
We have intimate details about her 2012 hospitalization, for instance, because she was secretary of state at the time. Trump has not been subjected to the same kind of scrutiny and has been less forthcoming during his presidential campaign.
Clinton may also face a different standard because of her gender, her defenders say. Many presidential candidates have had health issues, but Clinton defenders say that while enduring health issues can be seen as a sign of persistence in male candidates, it's viewed as a sign of weakness in women.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
For now the only real damage done is that it buried some negative Trump stories this weekend like the one about him scamming 9/11 small business recovery funds or using his Foundation (i.e. other people's money) to buy a six foot self-portrait. She might take a small hit in the polls maybe this week but if she's fine for the debates in two weeks she'll get it back. Might even help her then by lowering the bar and giving her a "comeback" narrative.
If she's not fine in two weeks, then it becomes an issue.
If she's not fine in two weeks, then it becomes an issue.
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
Politician Spock
Footballguy
So a 68 year old woman who was diagnosed with pneumonia on Friday has to be carried into a van with her feat dragging across the sidewalk, and they decide after she's in the van "Hey, let's take her to her daughter's apartment!"
James Comey was right. "Extremely careless". Or in other words, she and her staff are ####### idiots.
OR.... Mr. Ham's body double theory has legs.... as that story has more intelligence behind it than the one we are being told. She should have been taken to medial care immediately, and they probably did it as privately as they could. Would they go so far as to put a body double in front of the media? I don't know. But they went so far as to lie about what was wrong with her,
So it's either they are being honest, which makes them ####### idiots, or they're actually intelligent and lying to us, which leaves body doubles as a possibility. I'm not ready to jump on the body double bandwagon, but I don't think she and her crew are "extremely careless" or "####### idiots". I believe they will lie their asses off to control public opinion as much as they can. So I'm leaving the body double theory on the table even though I'm not ready to believe it.
And were going to have to deal with 100+ more of these BS stories over the next four years if she gets elected and doesn't die. Best thing that could happen is the dems replace her with Biden, or the country steps up to vote Johnson. I'm good with either.
James Comey was right. "Extremely careless". Or in other words, she and her staff are ####### idiots.
OR.... Mr. Ham's body double theory has legs.... as that story has more intelligence behind it than the one we are being told. She should have been taken to medial care immediately, and they probably did it as privately as they could. Would they go so far as to put a body double in front of the media? I don't know. But they went so far as to lie about what was wrong with her,
So it's either they are being honest, which makes them ####### idiots, or they're actually intelligent and lying to us, which leaves body doubles as a possibility. I'm not ready to jump on the body double bandwagon, but I don't think she and her crew are "extremely careless" or "####### idiots". I believe they will lie their asses off to control public opinion as much as they can. So I'm leaving the body double theory on the table even though I'm not ready to believe it.
And were going to have to deal with 100+ more of these BS stories over the next four years if she gets elected and doesn't die. Best thing that could happen is the dems replace her with Biden, or the country steps up to vote Johnson. I'm good with either.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
This is unpossible at this point...unpossible. It's Trump. If you're "coming back" against Trump you're doing it wrong.
However, it is a nice built in excuse for her supporters if she craps herself during the first debate. So there's that
The General
Footballguy
The one on Drudge is the same video that was being shown earlier. It is not a "new angle" it shows the exact same thing just mirrored or flipped. Anyways yes she was out on her feet.
First video they showed
Drudge video
All schtick aside, and my personal dislike for Clinton aside as well - there are several reasons why this is a serious issue.
1. She is 68 years old. Whether you agree or not - her health is an issue (so is Trump's by the way). The job of president, by all accounts is both physically and mentally demanding - almost 24 hours a day. Testing whether a person can withstand the rigors of the job is as important as whether they know about Aleppo.
2. The Trump campaign has been hitting her hard on health issues going back to the primaries, and lately it seems as though the Trump surrogates have been engaged in a strong whisper campaign about Clinton's health. Until yesterday those whispers were met with derision - now it raises questions. From the outside, it looks to me, like the Trump campaign got some inside intel - prior to Friday - that Clinton is in poor health - so they have been laying the groundwork waiting on an episode like this for the seed to take root - knowing it was a matter of when, not if.
3. The optics of the "episode" are not good. In the era of 24-hour news and social media coverage - this was more than simply passing out from heat exhaustion. Ask Ray Rice about the power of video.
4. The trustworthy issues continue to haunt Clinton - I am not sure if we have the whole truth on this episode, and I bet I am not alone. The story went from feeling unwell from heat exhaustion, to fainting from heat exhaustion, to total news blackout, to she was diagnosed with pneumonia on Friday. The video was an unexpected wrinkle - since the media had been banned from leaving the media area of the ceremony. Once the video started to go viral, the story changed, and then the campaign went into blackout mode, then we get a fresh story. As with most Clinton stories - the story only changes as more facts become known. Even in the doctor's note - they are still trying to spin the health issue - the first sentence talks about her having a seasonal allergy cough - when we now know (or think we know) she was diagnosed with pneumonia - not seasonal allergies.
Even if you are the most staunch Hillary supporter, this should give you pause, and want to ask some fundamental questions around whether she is healthy enough to carry out one of the most demanding jobs in the world. Because, if she is not healthy, then we should really be doing a lot more vetting of Tim Kaine - who may be a fine candidate, but if that is who we are electing, then we should know a lot more about him than we currently know....
1. She is 68 years old. Whether you agree or not - her health is an issue (so is Trump's by the way). The job of president, by all accounts is both physically and mentally demanding - almost 24 hours a day. Testing whether a person can withstand the rigors of the job is as important as whether they know about Aleppo.
2. The Trump campaign has been hitting her hard on health issues going back to the primaries, and lately it seems as though the Trump surrogates have been engaged in a strong whisper campaign about Clinton's health. Until yesterday those whispers were met with derision - now it raises questions. From the outside, it looks to me, like the Trump campaign got some inside intel - prior to Friday - that Clinton is in poor health - so they have been laying the groundwork waiting on an episode like this for the seed to take root - knowing it was a matter of when, not if.
3. The optics of the "episode" are not good. In the era of 24-hour news and social media coverage - this was more than simply passing out from heat exhaustion. Ask Ray Rice about the power of video.
4. The trustworthy issues continue to haunt Clinton - I am not sure if we have the whole truth on this episode, and I bet I am not alone. The story went from feeling unwell from heat exhaustion, to fainting from heat exhaustion, to total news blackout, to she was diagnosed with pneumonia on Friday. The video was an unexpected wrinkle - since the media had been banned from leaving the media area of the ceremony. Once the video started to go viral, the story changed, and then the campaign went into blackout mode, then we get a fresh story. As with most Clinton stories - the story only changes as more facts become known. Even in the doctor's note - they are still trying to spin the health issue - the first sentence talks about her having a seasonal allergy cough - when we now know (or think we know) she was diagnosed with pneumonia - not seasonal allergies.
Even if you are the most staunch Hillary supporter, this should give you pause, and want to ask some fundamental questions around whether she is healthy enough to carry out one of the most demanding jobs in the world. Because, if she is not healthy, then we should really be doing a lot more vetting of Tim Kaine - who may be a fine candidate, but if that is who we are electing, then we should know a lot more about him than we currently know....
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TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Not sure what you mean. I was talking about her narrative, not the bar for her relative to Trump. Obviously her bar won't be as low as the one for Trump. All he has to do is not use racial slurs or take his junk out and he'll exceed expectations.
Billy Bats
Footballguy
No doubt. We're going to be hearing a lot of "a White House spokesperson said that President Clinton is fine and resting at the White House, no concerns about her health and not being in attendance today."
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2 questions regarding this:
1) If she had been diagnosed with pneumonia 2 days prior, why not just say that right away vs. waiting for 5 hours to explain what was wrong....when it was already known?
2) Why bring her to Hillary's apartment vs. a medical facility? Was this just a matter of needing fluids vs. actual medical attention?
1) If she had been diagnosed with pneumonia 2 days prior, why not just say that right away vs. waiting for 5 hours to explain what was wrong....when it was already known?
2) Why bring her to Hillary's apartment vs. a medical facility? Was this just a matter of needing fluids vs. actual medical attention?
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
Politician Spock
Footballguy
The BS stories won't be just about her health. It will be a lot of BS where she's doing one thing but telling the public she's doing another. That's how she rolls.
The General
Footballguy
While anything that helps donald is really unfortunate I agree with most of this. Point 4 you get a little off track IMO but now she has to address this more than she has in the past.
Of course it won't be enough for some - people in here are talking that she has body doubles
- this is just another thing to add to her pile.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Trump could commit a drive by shooting with Hilary steering the wheel and Johnson still wouldn't gather 25% of the vote.
The General
Footballguy
I had what they called pneumonia no idea if there are different levels of it or whatever when I was mid 20's.
Didn't have health insurance at the time had just graduate from school. It floored me. Would wake up and there would be an imprint of sweat on my bed. Got really dehydrated which was the worst thing, couldn't really move. Finally broke down and went to the emergency room. The gave me some IV's and some big pills and I was good in about a week. Can't imagine working or being 68 with that.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
This is true. People in this thread said Hillary could be in a coma and they would still vote for her over Johnson. I used to blame politicians. Now it's clear the voters deserve the blame.
2 - just a guess on my part, but i think she travels with a medical team - doctor and nurse. The stories circulating yesterday were that the woman supporting her by the pillar was her nurse, and there have been previous stories that the large black man who is usually by her side is a doctor. I can't swear to the authenticity of that - but it would not shock me that a presidential candidate has medical help nearby at all times - regardless of her current health situation. So, if I assume she had medical assistance with her team - then going to Chelsea's apartment - away from cameras and media - makes sense. Clinton, and her team, were desperately trying to control the narrative of the story - before they knew there was a video - the worst thing - from a PR perspective - would be to rush her to the hospital which would immediately feed into the health issues - again at that point, they did not know about the video.
So - my guess is that the medical team decided they could do what they needed outside of a hospital setting - they were well enough briefed on whatever was ailing Clinton to treat her in Chelsea's apartment.
The Commish
Footballguy
Her bar IS Trump. All she has to be is slightly better than Trump. She has to be slightly better than the guy we are asking to not use racial slurs or take his junk out. It can't be set much lower than that for her. My point is, if she's "coming back" that means she's behind. Behind freakin' Trump....she's doing it wrong.
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
It depends how bad it is and how far along or how long she had it. I do know when you are lightheaded and dehydrated and get an IV to hydrate you, you feel better pretty quick but there is no way she should have been doing anything except resting. Of course, imagine if she actually did that like she was supposed to. The story/narrative would be that she is halfway to her deathbed because of not showing up for a 9-11 event so frankly I would have done exactly what she did. She loses much more by not showing up at all versus what happened.
As far as believing it, none of us know the full truth. Whether that's what she really has, whether there is something else with it, the severity, etc are all seemingly dependent on people's political leanings, especially in this thread.
Her known symptoms (bad lingering cough, dehydration, lightheaded/fainting) are all symptoms of pnemonia. That's all I know.
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
I know as much (no more, no less) as everyone else in this thread. Which is not much other than assumptions and speculation.
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
This is true.
The thing about those two stories is that I know (because I posted on them) they have been around. I agree they should be issues but if corruption is to be treated as a substantive issue then Hillary's campaign will have to drive it and make it so.
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HellToupee
Footballguy
James Daulton
Footballguy
Will the dems please sack up now and remove Hillary and replace her with Biden.
Then we'd see the last of King Cheeto's chances at being the most powerful man in the world (well after Putin anyway).
Then we'd see the last of King Cheeto's chances at being the most powerful man in the world (well after Putin anyway).
pantherclub
Footballguy
People really believe she has pneumonia?
pantherclub
Footballguy
You are not going to vote for Trump because of something his son did? Thats just all kinds of dumb IMO
Rove!
Footballguy
The voters are too easily swayed by the media. They swallow narratives that are rolled out and ignore conflicting information and facts that come out later.
One entertainment trope is where a character believes one thing and then mountains of evidence are shown to him, contradicting that thing and he still refuses to change his view to frustration of the other characters and the viewer. I used to view these things as unrealistic, like "c'mon man, nobody is that stupid." I have now come around to seeing that this rigid mindset is more common than I ever dared to believe...
timschochet
Footballguy
Good morning.
As much as I love the discussion and debate in this forum, probably the biggest drawback to this or any other Internet forum is the amount of speculation and assumption that takes place whenever something like this happens. The most wild crap gets talked about seriously, and every discussion of this sort begins with the contention "they're lying to us!" Is taken for granted.
I believe Tobias is right. In real life this will be discussed for a few days, but by the time of her debate it will be forgotten. (If health conditions show up at her debate she's in serious trouble. But I doubt that will happen.)
As much as I love the discussion and debate in this forum, probably the biggest drawback to this or any other Internet forum is the amount of speculation and assumption that takes place whenever something like this happens. The most wild crap gets talked about seriously, and every discussion of this sort begins with the contention "they're lying to us!" Is taken for granted.
I believe Tobias is right. In real life this will be discussed for a few days, but by the time of her debate it will be forgotten. (If health conditions show up at her debate she's in serious trouble. But I doubt that will happen.)
flapgreen
Footballguy
I know you're getting it on the internet. That's the problem with the internet these days. People think Google makes them a medical professional.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Well sure, all that's required now is that what Hillary and her campaign says is happening actually turns out to be true. Like Tobias says IF Hillary's not better in 2 weeks then there's a problem. Now why would you even consider that a possibility?
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
The other thing going on here is sexism. If Hillary was a man, her pneumonia would still be a big story, no doubt. But there would be significantly less concern. Eisenhower was re-elected after having a heart attack; he was perceived as "tough". John McCain had had cancer, and it was barely an issue in that campaign (despite the fact that his VP choice was scary.)
Men in politics are assumed to be strong; women are assumed to be weak.
Men in politics are assumed to be strong; women are assumed to be weak.
Hang 10
Footballguy
It's possible that she has pneumonia. Do I believe that's all that wrong with her health? Hell no. I'm much more concerned about the brain damage she sustained years ago. Clearly she's still not right.
The General
Footballguy
The video of her passing out is fairly shocking. That along with the sick meme is an awful look for a 68 year old. Luckily Trump isn't a younger man and he that looks like a bag of orange jello. She needs to take a week off and not fly all over the place then kick his ### at the debates.
Oh and she has body doubles.
pantherclub
Footballguy
There is spin and then there is this. You really think that a Presidential candidate fainting and having to be loaded in a van on top of the coughing outbreaks will fade out in a couple of days? What world are you living in?
pantherclub
Footballguy
Come on man lets not go there. Thats cheap and completely wrong.
If anything its Hillary playing the woman card. ::shrilling:: ".....then deal me in...."
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
A guy says he's not voting for a bigoted buffoon because the other candidate has an infection, and he's called deplorable?
That's about sums up the reaction. Trump supporters clinging to whatever they can. They're so glad right now, hoping this is "the big one". Pathetic.
So let me get this straight,. if they get another D in there, you'll vote for them over Trump, but not for Hillary over Trump. Got it. I may have been born at night, but not last night.
That's about sums up the reaction. Trump supporters clinging to whatever they can. They're so glad right now, hoping this is "the big one". Pathetic.
So let me get this straight,. if they get another D in there, you'll vote for them over Trump, but not for Hillary over Trump. Got it. I may have been born at night, but not last night.
HellToupee
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
If she was suffering from brain damage when she made mincemeat of the GOP Select Committee on Benghazi for eleven straight hours less than a year ago I'm not sure what that says about the GOP reps (or the people who vote for them).
shader
Footballguy
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Hang 10
Footballguy
Parrothead
Footballguy
"Powering through" 
HellToupee
Footballguy
Total
narrative you are putting forth and McCain's health was a part of the Obama campaign- Status
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