**** OFFICIAL **** LOST - The TV Series (3 Viewers)

[packersfan]

It's probably in the thread somewhere, but was it ever determined why Hurley, Jack, Kate and Sawyer were the four the Others requested that Michael bring back with him?

Nope but it's clear The Others want Jack, Kate and Sawyer for some purpose. Hurley appeared to just be someone added to the list so he could be used to warn everyone to not pursue The Others again. Jack, Kate and Sawyer are the keys. We also know Locke is important to The Others as well (he was the reason Henry wanted to infiltrate the Losties' camp).

 

[Nigel]

The white sky thing gets me. We all saw it go white, yet IRRC, when Claire was talking to Charlie at the end of the episode she said the sky went violet. Did I hear her wrong?

She said "violent."

 

[stbugs]

And how did the supposed leader get caught so easily by Rouseau?

You really have no idea what's going on, do you?

What is your thought here? I personally believe all of Rousseau's stories. Do you think she is also an Other and the trap was a setup? I think Henry was legitimately caught in Rousseau's trap. People mentioned that Henry would be stupid to fall for the baby thing, but we have seen other traps like the tripwire Hurley hit that blew up her camp.

I think he wanted to be caught and taken to the crash survivors' camp.

Interesting and definitely possible. I don't think I thought that he would intentionally get caught, why not just go into the camp with the Henry Gale story to start?Oh well, I am still confused about why Henry was trying to keep working on Locke with the whole "I never pressed the button and it just reset/did nothing" angle. We know from last night, that Henry had to have entered the code.

The only thing I can think of is that he wanted Locke to question his faith and become an Other, but then why wasn't Locke on the list of 4? Why wouldn't Henry just take off in that case if he didn't really need Locke? Also, if the goal was to get the button not pushed, why not storm the castle, there is usually only one or two people in there and it isn't close to the beach, i.e. reinforcements?

All that has me shuked.

 

[djjosee]

It's probably in the thread somewhere, but was it ever determined why Hurley, Jack, Kate and Sawyer were the four the Others requested that Michael bring back with him?

Hurley is the messanger (no threat to the Others)

 

[stbugs]

Fabulous episode - really tied a lot of stuff together.

You Lost freeks are gonna hate me for saying this, but they just jumped the shark.

No way they can top the last few weeks.

I'm afraid I agree with you. The last five minutes opened up an interesting can of worms, but I believe the writers will have trouble sustaining the intensity and mystery of the first two seasons now that the Outside World is actively involved in the storyline.

Come on guys, we all know this show won't jump the shark until season 4 or 5 when they find Ted McGinley holed up in one of the other hatches.

 

[Dr. van Nostrand]

It's probably in the thread somewhere, but was it ever determined why Hurley, Jack, Kate and Sawyer were the four the Others requested that Michael bring back with him?

Nope but it's clear The Others want Jack, Kate and Sawyer for some purpose. Hurley appeared to just be someone added to the list so he could be used to warn everyone to not pursue The Others again. Jack, Kate and Sawyer are the keys. We also know Locke is important to The Others as well (he was the reason Henry wanted to infiltrate the Losties' camp).

Can we really believe anything "Henry" has said?

 

[(HULK)]

What about that CGI'd green bird screaming Hurley's name twice...it sounded just like Walt..as in Walt, I made a bird fly into my window once, Walt.

That part was Maybe more on the animal experiments next season?

 

[stbugs]

It's probably in the thread somewhere, but was it ever determined why Hurley, Jack, Kate and Sawyer were the four the Others requested that Michael bring back with him?

Nope but it's clear The Others want Jack, Kate and Sawyer for some purpose. Hurley appeared to just be someone added to the list so he could be used to warn everyone to not pursue The Others again. Jack, Kate and Sawyer are the keys. We also know Locke is important to The Others as well (he was the reason Henry wanted to infiltrate the Losties' camp).

Not sure if Locke was actually important now. Henry was screwing with him, but was he doing that just because Locke was the guy down there? If Hurley was the there instead, I have no doubt that Henry would have screwed with him as well. Did Henry even know Locke was the guy when it came to the hatch?

 

[(HULK)]

The MOST believable mention of a higher up in the other's ranks is by Henry, period.

That's how I took the interrogation a few weeks ago, too.I think we get a new character next year more powerful than Henry.

I think that whole scene with Sayid showed how mentally strong Henry is. He had them believing him when he was lying. He is a master manipulator. I was clear at the end of this episode that he is BDIC on the island.

 

[Sack-Religious]

Him = Penny's dad?

The island was not built to house Desmond since the tests were going on way before Desmond and the daughter were even thought of. 

Henry Gayle = Penny's dad? or the VP of the company?

Who is the real Henry Gayle and how did he end up on the island?  Why?

Him = Penny?

Fake Henry looks nothing like the guy in the car that Desmond spoke to, who we know is Mr. Widmore.Probably worth noting that the balloon the real Henry Gale flew(?) in had a large Widmore logo on it.

What is the Widmore logo? I thought the balloon had a happy face.

Sorry, I guess I could have been more clear. The literal balloon had a smiley face on it, but the capsule(?) that the real Henry Gale rode in had a Widmore logo on it. Here is a screen cap of it.

Ah, good catch.What if it's something like this... Mr. Widmore, for whatever reason, funded Hanso/Dharma as they made this island experiment. Then when Desmond got out of jail, he intentionally let Desmond find out about this "race" around the world, but it was really a setup to get him far away from his daughter.

Then, during the 2 years Desmond is on the island with Kelvin, Mr. Widmore dies and his daughter inherits all his money. She either uncovers her dad's plan (or knew about it all along) and with her dead father's resources uses Widmore hot air balloons and Widmore electromagnetic anomoly detectors to track down her long lost love.

My only problem with is that it's a pretty massive undertaking to keep a guy away from your daughter. Even for a wealthy person.Are you asserting that the whole island was a setup to get Desmond away from Penelope? Or are you saying the island and experiments were set up beforehand and that her father organized the race as a lure to get Desmond there?

If it's the latter, rather than the former I can see this as a possibility.

 

[Capella]

I thought the bird became the monster. When I saw that, I thought the monster was around the corner.

Still confused by the sickness -- the french chick claims it killed her friends, but nobody has become sick from it.

 

[Smoo]

I don't know why I even came in here. Don't you people just enjoy watching the show? Why is it so important to try to "figure everything out"?

 

[kupcho1]

Henry

I believe someone earlier in the thread referred to Henry as a pawn. He's certainly not a pawn, but more like a Knight (with Zeke/Tom and Ms. Klugh as Rooks, perhaps). Think of him as the Division President, Island Operations, of the overarching conspiracy. Or, if the others are off-the-reservation so to speak, the leader of that faction.

For the purpose of the others plan, they put a fairly valuable piece in play in order to snag Jack, Kate and Sawyer (although they had each of them well in hand during Hunting Party and didn't take them then - plot hole?)

Why was Rousseau able to catch Henry? I think Henry purposely put himself in the trap. We've seen dolls all over the island that Rousseau has used as bait (btw, is there a Toys 'R Us there?) and I'm sure the others know by now as well. Henry chose a trap near the survivors and hoped to be caught by them. Unfortunately, Rousseau found him first. Luckily for Henry, she didn't just immediately kill him (plot hole?), although he did take an arrow hit.

Why didn't they take Locke? I don't think the others ever really wanted Locke despite what Henry said. I think Henry was just sowing dissension when he made that comment.

Henry's life was in jeopardy on several occasions (by Sayid). It is a risk they took in order to accomplish the mission.

BTW, it is clear now that Henry did in fact enter the number sequence and Execute the command. But was he simply sowing dissension, or setting Locke up to not push the button? I'd lean toward dissension as the system failure seemed to take the others by surprise.

Pronouns

I think folks are getting far too tied up in "He" and "Him". The fact that both the others. Locke's GF and Swan hatch denizens have used "Him" in a question is meaningless (or more likely deliberate deception on the part of the writers).

There is a "He" Henry reports to.

Swan button pushers where expecting "Him" to show up as a replacement.

This doesn't necessarily mean they are tied in.

Finding/Leaving the Island

I think the geographic electromagnetic anomaly is both preventing people from finding or seeing (via satellite) the island and making it very difficult for people to leave. Could 325° be the the axis of the electromagnetic field along which exit/entry are possible? Wouldn't 145° work just as well (perhaps Henry was being kind in sending them along a route where they'd run into land more quickly)?

Difficult issues to resolve

Why didn't the others simply keep Jack/Kate/Sawyer when they had them in Hunting Party? What (if anything) did they or Henry need to accomplish in the intervening timeframe? Why was Hurley included on the list, but allowed to leave?

BTW, did anyone see Hurley get hit with a tranquilizer? Did the fact that he was unarmed influence the others treatment of him (i.e., sending him back to camp)?

As stated previously, the show seemed to show a number of interactions pre-cash involving the survivors, but the plane crashed by random chance. I'm not buying the theory that Desmond's behavior was engineered to allow system failure at just the right point in time. (Desmond did not bury Kelvin, did he? Are we sure Kelvin is dead?)

 

[Jaysus]

Umm... what was up with the other plane at the endof the episode?

 

[Sack-Religious]

That's the second time we've seen that massive bird.

IIRC, it made an appearance towards the end (if not the finale) of last season. I also believe Kate was present to see it that time, as well. Hmmm.

Did anyone catch anything from the whispers last night before Jack and them got tranquilized?

I was sure one of the first things I heard was "Elizabeth" isn't she a DeGroot?

 

[Capella]

Umm... what was up with the other plane at the endof the episode?

 

[Fishnic]

how do the others know all of their names, especially sawyers, who very few of the losties even know by real name?

 

[BGP]

Sayid DID shoot.  The gun discharged into the floor or the wall because Anna hit his arm.  Henry, the supposed "leader" should be dead.

You don't know that. The shot could have been caused by AL hitting his arm.

Also, I assume Henry saw the whole bad cop/good cop setup. I said that to my wife when I was watching it.

Agreed. That was what I was thinking when I was watching it -- no way were they just going to kill him at that point before they could get more info from him. I think Henry smelled the plan a mile away -- just as he always did with the Losties. Guy's proven to be a smart cookie.And with relation to Hulk's post above, I wouldn't rule out Libby being a plant just yet.

I disagree. THere was no setup nor communication shown between Sayid And Anna before or after the execution attempt. That was not good cop/bad cop. She just stopped the execution.

 

[stbugs]

Umm... what was up with the other plane at the endof the episode?

I must have missed that. More detail please.

 

[Sack-Religious]

Umm... what was up with the other plane at the endof the episode?

Jaysus what are you talking about?

 

[Dash]

Desmond did not bury Kelvin, did he? Are we sure Kelvin is dead?

Well, if he wasn't dead he probably would have tried to sail the boat away...

 

[BGP]

Henry

I believe someone earlier in the thread referred to Henry as a pawn. He's certainly not a pawn, but more like a Knight (with Zeke/Tom and Ms. Klugh as Rooks, perhaps). Think of him as the Division President, Island Operations, of the overarching conspiracy. Or, if the others are off-the-reservation so to speak, the leader of that faction.

Its possible that Henry is the leader. But if it is so, then the show has become stupid. He is not a credible threat. The guy should be dead for his mistakes trying to infilrate the losties. He's a joke.

 

[stbugs]

how do the others know all of their names, especially sawyers, who very few of the losties even know by real name?

We will find that out in Season 3 Episode 2. Bank on it.Good luck Norwood in remembering this post in 5 months and throwing it in my face.

 

[jplvr]

I don't know why I even came in here. Don't you people just enjoy watching the show? Why is it so important to try to "figure everything out"?

 

[stbugs]

I don't know why I even came in here. Don't you people just enjoy watching the show? Why is it so important to try to "figure everything out"?

I will use an analogy here. Lost to us is as important as grammar to you. So, we tend to like to discuss it after the show as much as you like finding mistakes and correcting them.

 

[BGP]

Another thing about Henry supposedly being the leader.

When Sayid was about to shoot and kill him (and there's no doubt he would have followed through) why did Henry plea that Sayid had no idea what HE will do to Henry if he answered Sayid's questions?  There's that HE again.

Because he was manipulating everyone.I think it is clear that Fake Henry is the leader.

And FYI, the creators did say in a recent episode that the finale would reveal the true status of Henry.

If that is what they said, then the show is now dumb. End of story.Henry manipulated NOTHING. He upset Locke for a day or two. But in the end, Henry's actions probably pulled Locke and Jack closer together if anything.

 

[Mad Cow]

Does it bother anyone that Michael murdered 2 people in cold-blood and walks away like nothing happened. Not only that, but when the group found out he had killed them, their reaction was more akin to him having kicked a puppy instead of killing 2 people. That is unforgiving of the writers. Lost fans, say hello to Alias's fate.

 

[RedRaiders]

Does it bother anyone that Michael murdered 2 people in cold-blood and walks away like nothing happened. Not only that, but when the group found out he had killed them, their reaction was more akin to him having kicked a puppy instead of killing 2 people. That is unforgiving of the writers. Lost fans, say hello to Alias's fate.

Agreed, I'm surprised Sawyer didn't go after him there.

 

[stbugs]

I don't know why I even came in here.  Don't you people just enjoy watching the show?  Why is it so important to try to "figure everything out"?

I couldn't disagree more. How many things have we actually figured out well in advance or predicted with 100% accuracy? Sure we have thrown out some #### that has stuck, but I would say that we have been surprised 90+%.All we are doing is discussing the show and potential theories, but for the most part we aren't figuring out ****.

 

[miphin]

My thoughts on the Fake Gale being the leader are that he is not in fact the grand leader, kupcho1 hit on this as well.

I think Henry can be considered like a Captain on the island, where as Zeke and Ms Klugh can be considered Lt's. There are definitely some that are ranking above him, he is simply the combat zone leader.

One piece of evidence that leads me to believe this, which no one has yet to recognize is the location of those scenes with the others.

At the end of a very long pier.

Why would they be way out there? to see Michael off? Doubtfully. The only reason to bring everyone way out there is because someone is arriving or someone is leaving. And since Michael took off in Gale's boat I think that the Others are awaiting the arrival of someone else......HIM maybe? via Sea Plane?

One other tidbit that I found confusing was that the others showed no emotion to when the electro magnet was destroyed. You would think that they would at least exchange curious glances, unless of course they knew it was going to happen. I think that they did eventually want that thing destroyed otherwise Henry would not have planted that seed in Locke's head.

Thanks for listening to my ramblings for now.

 

[Jaysus]

Umm... what was up with the other plane at the endof the episode?

Jaysus what are you talking about?

I'm pretty sure I saw another plane that started coming down after the credits rolled.

 

[ScottNorwood]

Another thing about Henry supposedly being the leader.

When Sayid was about to shoot and kill him (and there's no doubt he would have followed through) why did Henry plea that Sayid had no idea what HE will do to Henry if he answered Sayid's questions? There's that HE again.

Because he was manipulating everyone.I think it is clear that Fake Henry is the leader.

And FYI, the creators did say in a recent episode that the finale would reveal the true status of Henry.

If that is what they said, then the show is now dumb. End of story.Henry manipulated NOTHING. He upset Locke for a day or two. But in the end, Henry's actions probably pulled Locke and Jack closer together if anything.

So in your mind leaders are not capable of making mistakes? Or maybe Henry wasn't afraid of getting killed because he knew the island would heal him? The islands healing powers have been well documented. Food for thought.

 

[(HULK)]

My predictions for tonights show.

This is just my gut talking here, combined with a hints here and there that I've come across.

I will invisitext them as one or two might actually be correct.

1. I believe we will discover that the fake Henry Gale is in fact the leader of the Others.  I think he is running their whole show on the island.

2. I believe that Locke will destroy the countdown computer somehow, and that when the timer runs out there will be explosions in the hatch, but the world will not end because of it.  However, it will trigger 1 other as of yet unseen reaction.

3. I believe that Desmond, when he returns, will be borderline nuts.  I think he will suggest something earth shattering to the Losties, but it will end up only being ravings of a tortured mind.

4.  Via a flashback, we will see that Libby is married or related to a high up guy in either Hanso or Widmore.  She will also sell a boat to Desmond, and it will be the very boat we saw at the end of last weeks episode.

5.  I believe we also will see that Libby was a deeply planted mole.  She was on flight 815 when it crashed, and she was the reason it crashed.  She had some sort of equipment on board to mess with the navigational equipment to bring the plane to the island, and then she detonated a small explosion which tore the plane into 3 parts.

Those are best, most educated guesses about the big moments tonight.

1. I was dead on for this one2. Pretty close to correct here

3. Unknown. Did he really sail in a straight line, or was he too drunk to notice his drifting?

4. Partial credit

5. 100% wrong

I give my predictions a grade of B-

predictions come on dude, you ripped them off a spoiler site.

The only thing I had read in a spoiler that I predicted was that Libby gave Desmond the boat. And even that spoiler was unconfirmed. So, I made all 5 of those statement without knowledge if they were right or wrong.

 

[stbugs]

Does it bother anyone that Michael murdered 2 people in cold-blood and walks away like nothing happened.  Not only that, but when the group found out he had killed them, their reaction was more akin to him having kicked a puppy instead of killing 2 people.  That is unforgiving of the writers.  Lost fans, say hello to Alias's fate.

Agreed, I'm surprised Sawyer didn't go after him there.

I was surprised as well. I was actually waiting for Sawyer to pull a Charlie (on Ethan), but Jack did kind of stop them and said that he had a plan. He said they needed to appear as if they were still believing in Michael so that Sayid and Jin could save the day.

Jack just screwed up in thinking that the ambush was going to be at the camp where Sayid was and thus they got caught.

 

[(HULK)]

The guy who calls Penny Widmore at the end? 

Jack's Twin?

It's Jack!  Or at least his T W I N....

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.......

What??

That does look like him. I didn't notice this last night.

 

[kupcho1]

Henry

I believe someone earlier in the thread referred to Henry as a pawn.  He's certainly not a pawn, but more like a Knight (with Zeke/Tom and Ms. Klugh as Rooks, perhaps).  Think of him as the Division President, Island Operations, of the overarching conspiracy. Or, if the others are off-the-reservation so to speak, the leader of that faction. 

Its possible that Henry is the leader. But if it is so, then the show has become stupid. He is not a credible threat. The guy should be dead for his mistakes trying to infilrate the losties. He's a joke.

What mistakes did Henry make?If you accept that he purposely put himself in the trap - and if you don't accept this, please let me know why - he had enough of a cover story to assume that he would be accepted by the survivors. It was only Sayid's doggedness that uncovered it. The assumption that most people would see the balloon and gravesite and believe the story is a reasonable one in my opinion.

Was he running a risk? Absolutely. But note that he put himself into a trap fairly near the survivors. It was not a trap near Rousseau's camp, nor was it on the other side of the island.

Moreover, the others already had Michael and Walt to bargain with if push came to shove.

Seriously, what mistakes were made? How is Henry's credibilitiy lessened?

 

[stbugs]

Umm... what was up with the other plane at the endof the episode?

Jaysus what are you talking about?

I'm pretty sure I saw another plane that started coming down after the credits rolled.

Well, I have some re-watching to do tonight.

 

[noneother]

questions from the ignorant

Why was the plane brought down? "How" - is the magnet?

the scientist working for Penelope, are from Widmore/Hanso? how do they/she know to look for electromagnet, cause she knows her fathers work, and the Desmond was looking to screw with him?

she kept the picture, so she dedicated to finding him.

evil hanso empire, good princess penelope?

 

[ScottNorwood]

Umm... what was up with the other plane at the endof the episode?

Jaysus what are you talking about?

I'm pretty sure I saw another plane that started coming down after the credits rolled.

Well, I have some re-watching to do tonight.

Are you sure you aren't thinking about the "quarantine" hatch door that fell out of the sky?

 

[shuke]

I thought the bird became the monster. When I saw that, I thought the monster was around the corner.

Eh?

 

[shuke]

I don't know why I even came in here.

Me neither.

Don't you people just enjoy watching the show?

Of course.

Why is it so important to try to "figure everything out"?

Who said it was important?

 

[PC Load Letter]

Him = Penny's dad?

The island was not built to house Desmond since the tests were going on way before Desmond and the daughter were even thought of. 

Henry Gayle = Penny's dad? or the VP of the company?

Who is the real Henry Gayle and how did he end up on the island?  Why?

Him = Penny?

Fake Henry looks nothing like the guy in the car that Desmond spoke to, who we know is Mr. Widmore.Probably worth noting that the balloon the real Henry Gale flew(?) in had a large Widmore logo on it.

What is the Widmore logo? I thought the balloon had a happy face.

Sorry, I guess I could have been more clear. The literal balloon had a smiley face on it, but the capsule(?) that the real Henry Gale rode in had a Widmore logo on it. Here is a screen cap of it.

Ah, good catch.What if it's something like this... Mr. Widmore, for whatever reason, funded Hanso/Dharma as they made this island experiment. Then when Desmond got out of jail, he intentionally let Desmond find out about this "race" around the world, but it was really a setup to get him far away from his daughter.

Then, during the 2 years Desmond is on the island with Kelvin, Mr. Widmore dies and his daughter inherits all his money. She either uncovers her dad's plan (or knew about it all along) and with her dead father's resources uses Widmore hot air balloons and Widmore electromagnetic anomoly detectors to track down her long lost love.

My only problem with is that it's a pretty massive undertaking to keep a guy away from your daughter. Even for a wealthy person.Are you asserting that the whole island was a setup to get Desmond away from Penelope? Or are you saying the island and experiments were set up beforehand and that her father organized the race as a lure to get Desmond there?

If it's the latter, rather than the former I can see this as a possibility.

The latter. Mr Widmore: "I've got it.. I've got these wacked out scientist working on a creepy island that I can lure Desmond to and make him think it was his idea to circumnavigate the globe. {insert evil genius laugh}"

 

[CDoody]

Did anyone else notice at the end when the Others picked Jack, Kate and Sawyer up off the deck that the woman who picked up Kate grabbed her boobies first and then picked her up from under the arm?

Maybe that's why they didn't want Hurley. Planning a little love party later with the 3 musketeers.



Anyway, back to the originally scheduled discussion.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

how do the others know all of their names, especially sawyers, who very few of the losties even know by real name?

Hurley knows everybody's real name because he had the list from the plane. Any chance Hurley is working with the Others somehow?

 

[noneother]

Did anyone else notice at the end when the Others picked Jack, Kate and Sawyer up off the deck that the woman who picked up Kate grabbed her boobies first and then picked her up from under the arm?

Maybe that's why they didn't want Hurley. Planning a little love party later with the 3 musketeers.



Anyway, back to the originally scheduled discussion.

hurleys are bigger than kates

 

[Dash]

One other tidbit that I found confusing was that the others showed no emotion to when the electro magnet was destroyed. You would think that they would at least exchange curious glances, unless of course they knew it was going to happen. I think that they did eventually want that thing destroyed otherwise Henry would not have planted that seed in Locke's head.

They wanted the magnetic properties of the area destroyed or they wanted the Swan Station destroyed? Or both?

 

[shuke]

Umm... what was up with the other plane at the endof the episode?

It was shooting at the dinosaurs.

 

[Capella]

how do the others know all of their names, especially sawyers, who very few of the losties even know by real name?

Hurley knows everybody's real name because he had the list from the plane. Any chance Hurley is working with the Others somehow?

 

[Dr. van Nostrand]

Umm... what was up with the other plane at the endof the episode?

Jaysus what are you talking about?

I'm pretty sure I saw another plane that started coming down after the credits rolled.

Im pretty sure there were no Lost scenes shown while the credits were rolling. Are you thinking of the hatch door that nearly hit Bernard, Claire, and Aaron?

 

[RedRaiders]

Umm... what was up with the other plane at the endof the episode?

It was shooting at the dinosaurs.