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*** Official Marvels Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D (1 Viewer)

This was my least favorite season to date. Still enjoyed it but not as much as the previous ones. No idea what they do with Brett Dalton now. Can't see how they bring him back again. Daisy going rogue feels too much like a poor man's Ward storyline to me but I'll reserve judgement till I see where they go with it. Like I said, I still enjoy this show a lot but it felt to me like they had some real strong ideas in place for this season like using the inhumans as metaphors for a larger global statement but didn't really know to tell a story like that and just ended up making Daisy a poor man's Ward instead.   

 
I agree, most meh half-season so far.  Characters totally overreacted to everything.  Just a total mess.

Hive was really disappointing.  This unbeatable evil force that destroyed a whole civilization and is supposed to be completely unstoppable was basically fought to a draw or defeated in every single 1 on 1 encounter he was in.  They played this ominous music any time he shows up in a room with someone like they were surely doomed.  Then they just started punching him in the face like he was a regular guy.

He was also like a Bond villain on steroids.  Casually walk everywhere to his own detriment.  Chat up every person and reveal all his plans instead of just killing them.  Just a total waste of what should have been an interesting bad guy.

Ominous music -> badass slow-walk -> monologue about how awesome he is -> oh crap he just got his butt kicked

That replayed like 6 times in this episode alone

ETA: One thing I did really like about this episode was them touching back on Ward's past from season 1.  Re-showing the scene where he drops Fitz/Simmons into the ocean, which I thought was one of the most powerful of the series, was cool.  Same with Skye replying to Colson's "it's not your fault, you were brainwashed" comment with "so was Ward".

 
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FreeBaGeL said:
I agree, most meh half-season so far.  Characters totally overreacted to everything.  Just a total mess.

Hive was really disappointing.  This unbeatable evil force that destroyed a whole civilization and is supposed to be completely unstoppable was basically fought to a draw or defeated in every single 1 on 1 encounter he was in.  They played this ominous music any time he shows up in a room with someone like they were surely doomed.  Then they just started punching him in the face like he was a regular guy.

He was also like a Bond villain on steroids.  Casually walk everywhere to his own detriment.  Chat up every person and reveal all his plans instead of just killing them.  Just a total waste of what should have been an interesting bad guy.

Ominous music -> badass slow-walk -> monologue about how awesome he is -> oh crap he just got his butt kicked

That replayed like 6 times in this episode alone

ETA: One thing I did really like about this episode was them touching back on Ward's past from season 1.  Re-showing the scene where he drops Fitz/Simmons into the ocean, which I thought was one of the most powerful of the series, was cool.  Same with Skye replying to Colson's "it's not your fault, you were brainwashed" comment with "so was Ward".
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They did something similar with Daisy. They clearly didn't want to her to go Full Ward so she kind of hurts Fitz and kind of hurts Mac. But if the story was done logically she definitely would've killed Mac and probably Fitz too. But because she's Daisy and the fans love her they can't go Full Ward with her and have her just kill Mac and/or Fitz like a complete psychopath, especially when they've already played that card once with Ward. It just feels like they had some ideas for this season but didn't really know what to do with anything and kind of winged their way through it and nothing really felt very satisfied.

 
Agree with the above, plus there was a huge miss with the weak/nonexistent tie-ins to the movies and greater MCU - exactly opposite of what they did when CA TWS was released, which was some of the most suspenseful and engaging crossover attention we've seen.  Instead of building on the TV-cinema synergies they had created, they essentially abandoned them.  Big missed opportunity here imo.

 
Psychopav said:
Agree with the above, plus there was a huge miss with the weak/nonexistent tie-ins to the movies and greater MCU - exactly opposite of what they did when CA TWS was released, which was some of the most suspenseful and engaging crossover attention we've seen.  Instead of building on the TV-cinema synergies they had created, they essentially abandoned them.  Big missed opportunity here imo.
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Yeah it seemed like they had a real opportunity to tie right into the Sokovia Accords in Civil War but they didn't do that at all other than a real weak attempt in last week's episode. That was a major strength of the first season like you said. But they missed a golden opportunity to do it again this season with the Inhumans storyline. I think they had a bunch of ideas they wanted to use but they couldn't figure out a way to put them all together to form one strong cohesive story so it was just a big jumbled mess where some things worked but it never really felt like everything worked or really came together effectively.  

 
FreeBaGeL said:
I agree, most meh half-season so far.  Characters totally overreacted to everything.  Just a total mess.

Hive was really disappointing.  This unbeatable evil force that destroyed a whole civilization and is supposed to be completely unstoppable was basically fought to a draw or defeated in every single 1 on 1 encounter he was in.  They played this ominous music any time he shows up in a room with someone like they were surely doomed.  Then they just started punching him in the face like he was a regular guy.

He was also like a Bond villain on steroids.  Casually walk everywhere to his own detriment.  Chat up every person and reveal all his plans instead of just killing them.  Just a total waste of what should have been an interesting bad guy.

Ominous music -> badass slow-walk -> monologue about how awesome he is -> oh crap he just got his butt kicked

That replayed like 6 times in this episode alone

ETA: One thing I did really like about this episode was them touching back on Ward's past from season 1.  Re-showing the scene where he drops Fitz/Simmons into the ocean, which I thought was one of the most powerful of the series, was cool.  Same with Skye replying to Colson's "it's not your fault, you were brainwashed" comment with "so was Ward".
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Hive didn't see himself as a villain. He wanted to make the world a better place. 

 
Sebowski said:
Hive didn't see himself as a villain. He wanted to make the world a better place. 
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I did think the last scene with Hive and Lincoln was very well done. Both of them resigned to their fates and both looking down at a world neither of them really had fit into or were a part of. 

 
Sebowski said:
Hive didn't see himself as a villain. He wanted to make the world a better place. 
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Um...ok.  So did Hitler.

Regardless, don't really see how that matters when lamenting about how he was built up to be super powerful but pretty much got his butt kicked and tricked around every turn.

 
I thought overall the season was great, though the finale fell a little flat with me. 

I really hope they don't try to conceive some way for Dalton to be back on the show. That needs to be done.

I'm also wondering if the show will keep pushing the Inhuman storylines, since the movie has been shelved for now. 

 
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Arsenal of Doom said:
I thought overall the season was great, though the finale fell a little flat with me. 

I really hope they don't try to conceive some way for Dalton to be back on the show. That needs to be done.

I'm also wondering if the show will keep pushing the Inhuman storylines, since the movie has been shelved for now. 
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I like Brett Dalton so I hate to see him off the show but I agree that plot device has run it's course.  

 
With LMDs being brought into things, it's possible that Daisy hasn't gone rogue and rather that the rest of the team has been replaced. The last conversation between Radcliffe and his AI assistant made me think that maybe he'd already created a duplicate of Fitz. Perhaps he's the new director, or that after being "born", his AI assistant starts replacing people with LMDs and she's the new director.  Guess we'll find out.

 
packersfan said:
I did think the last scene with Hive and Lincoln was very well done. Both of them resigned to their fates and both looking down at a world neither of them really had fit into or were a part of. 
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...which is why they were so at peace with the whole situation.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
Um...ok.  So did Hitler.

Regardless, don't really see how that matters when lamenting about how he was built up to be super powerful but pretty much got his butt kicked and tricked around every turn.
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:lmao:  

I guess I should have been more specific about what I was responding to. The chatting up parts worked with his character. e wanted to win everyone over. Killing and even swaying were last resorts. He didn't even sway Lincoln at the end. Preferred a real talk/connection. 

 
I liked the season, in particular the first half. Thought they did the finale well, constantly moving the necklace around from character to character to keep us guessing. As others said I am just hoping they don't totally drop the Inhuman angle though and move on to the next plotline which the 6 months from now teaser somewhat suggested. In the season 3 premier you had Coulson in front of a giant map with a countdown clock projecting massive amounts of Inhumans in a year or so's time, hope they don't drop that plot thread. John Hannah makes a great villain so figured they were keeping him around and glad they did. Also thinking if Daisy is on the run, that gives them an easy way for her to partner up with and work Hunter & Bobbi back into the story if they so choose.

Hesitant about introducing LMD's. The doppleganger thing has been overplayed in other sci-fi shows plus it gives them an easy out to bring back Dalton or any other deceased character/actor.

 
I enjoyed the finale, not the best season overall, but I liked the start of it. It wasn't until they brought Ward back that it kind of got just OK for a bit. I loved Hive and Lincoln just talking at the end. That was the best part. Have no idea where it will go, but I do agree that it would be better if they tied it back in to the Marvel universe a bit more.

 
Just read some showrunner interviews on ign and such, does sound like that is it for Dalton/Ward and he's not coming back. They always throw that "well you never know in the Marvel universe" kind of caveat but it sounded pretty final.

No hints on who the new director is at all, but it doesn't seem like Hannah is going to be the villain either. Probably more a case of misguided intentions.

 
Buckna said:
Just read some showrunner interviews on ign and such, does sound like that is it for Dalton/Ward and he's not coming back. They always throw that "well you never know in the Marvel universe" kind of caveat but it sounded pretty final.

No hints on who the new director is at all, but it doesn't seem like Hannah is going to be the villain either. Probably more a case of misguided intentions.
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I agree, I think misguided intentions. A somewhat decent guy who really doesn't think through things but just does them. I think whatever he created is the next villain.

I picked up some new Marvel comics after not being in a comic store in about 20 years to read to my kids. Got some Avengers and in it Maria Hill (Cobie Smulders in Avengers) was the Director. As we know- comic and cinematic/TV don't always line up but I could see them bringing her in to help add some juice to the show.

 
Chadstroma said:
I agree, I think misguided intentions. A somewhat decent guy who really doesn't think through things but just does them. I think whatever he created is the next villain.

I picked up some new Marvel comics after not being in a comic store in about 20 years to read to my kids. Got some Avengers and in it Maria Hill (Cobie Smulders in Avengers) was the Director. As we know- comic and cinematic/TV don't always line up but I could see them bringing her in to help add some juice to the show.
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Was wondering the same ie Hill. IIRC she takes over for Fury in the comics after some blowback due to the Secret Warriors. Also there were numerous instances of faked deaths via LMD's and other people taking over as Director for short periods of time like Tony Stark and Norman Osborne.

Would work since Coulson has kind of been a proxy for Fury from the comic storylines with his relationship with Daisy for example in the tv show. Or they could have May take over as Director in Hill's place if Smulders is too busy for the show.

 
One thing that blew my mind when I went into the comic store.... they basically reset the whole series of comics. So, I bought Avengers 6,7 and 8. The comic nerd girl in the store was not totally helpful on getting me up to speed on the why and how and who etc because she basically only follows DC and kept talking about that.

The other thing that I found interesting was that it seemed to me the comics were a lot shorter than they use to be. I am going to have to go dig out some boxes and pull old ones to see if it is just me or if they really did shorten the comics.

 
Buckna said:
Was wondering the same ie Hill. IIRC she takes over for Fury in the comics after some blowback due to the Secret Warriors. Also there were numerous instances of faked deaths via LMD's and other people taking over as Director for short periods of time like Tony Stark and Norman Osborne.

Would work since Coulson has kind of been a proxy for Fury from the comic storylines with his relationship with Daisy for example in the tv show. Or they could have May take over as Director in Hill's place if Smulders is too busy for the show.
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I love me some Cobie.  :wub:   It would be great if she took over and led the team, fits pretty well with the movies too.  Certainly a bigger star than the rest but not too big for the show.

 
FUBAR said:
I love me some Cobie.  :wub:   It would be great if she took over and led the team, fits pretty well with the movies too.  Certainly a bigger star than the rest but not too big for the show.
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Outside of How I Met Your Mother..... she has done.... Avengers.... so, yea, not too big for the show.

 
Chadstroma said:
One thing that blew my mind when I went into the comic store.... they basically reset the whole series of comics. So, I bought Avengers 6,7 and 8. The comic nerd girl in the store was not totally helpful on getting me up to speed on the why and how and who etc because she basically only follows DC and kept talking about that.

The other thing that I found interesting was that it seemed to me the comics were a lot shorter than they use to be. I am going to have to go dig out some boxes and pull old ones to see if it is just me or if they really did shorten the comics.
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I don't read comics anymore, but I have heard about this.  DC actually did it a few years ago with the New 52, but then they do it every few years or so anyway.

From what I remember, Marvel had an event in the last year or so called Secret Wars (not one of the crossover events with the Beyonders from the 80s).  The idea was that different versions of the Earth were coming together and had to fight to survive.  The outcome was a new continuity that would contain parts from the different Earths.

The reasoning for it was probably the same as why DC reboots every few years - new readers are reluctant to get into long-running comics because the backstories have been published over decades and it's impossible to catch up.  So you reboot the universe and start with fresh characters who don't have all that baggage.  Some of the highlights from their old versions happen to them again, sometimes a little differently.

 
Yeah both DC and Marvel have been big on alternate timelines/universes for a while to sell comics. It's kind of like the movies, how many times can you tell Spider man's origin story over again? Some of these characters have 70-80 year historys.

So now we have some new twists like Spider Gwen(Gwen Stacey bit instead of parker in an alternate universe), Old Man Logan where he becomes a reclusive pacifist after being tricked into murdering all the xmen, etc. Marvel has been modernizing it up with Latino Spiderman, female Thor and Indian Ms Marvel. DC had a big to do a year or two ago with the first openly gay superhero.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. The superhero world was historically a white washed, male dominated genre. Got to get with the times.

 
That's what lost me...they started doing all these alternate universes/timelines and there were suddenly a half dozen Spiderman comics out at any given time.

So...did they at least have the forethought to continue the original series in any of these?

I mean, have a reboot...call it "Spiderman Super Ultimate 2.0 Mega Doppler 7000" but is the "Amazing Spiderman" still running after all these years?

Or did they abandon all that history and reboot without continuing the originals?

 
tdoss said:
That's what lost me...they started doing all these alternate universes/timelines and there were suddenly a half dozen Spiderman comics out at any given time.

So...did they at least have the forethought to continue the original series in any of these?

I mean, have a reboot...call it "Spiderman Super Ultimate 2.0 Mega Doppler 7000" but is the "Amazing Spiderman" still running after all these years?

Or did they abandon all that history and reboot without continuing the originals?
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During the 90s, they had at least 4 different Spider-Man titles all running at the same time - Amazing Spider-Man, Spectacular Spider-Man, Web of Spider-Man, and Spider-Man.

I believe they have rebooted their entire universe.  It's being branded "All New, All Different".

 
tdoss said:
That's what lost me...they started doing all these alternate universes/timelines and there were suddenly a half dozen Spiderman comics out at any given time.
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I haven't watched any of the Spiderman movies since the 2002 version with Maguire, Dunst and Dafoe.  Are any of them worth catching?

 
Mjolnirs said:
I haven't watched any of the Spiderman movies since the 2002 version with Maguire, Dunst and Dafoe.  Are any of them worth catching?
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I thought the 2nd Maguire one was the best of all of them. The first Garfield one was pretty good too, better than I expected. The 3rd Maguire and 2nd Garfield were bad.

 
Oh man, the Garfield Spider-Man's were beyond horrible.  Imagine the Twilight movies had Spider-Man instead of Vampires and that is what you have.

 
tdoss said:
That's what lost me...they started doing all these alternate universes/timelines and there were suddenly a half dozen Spiderman comics out at any given time.

So...did they at least have the forethought to continue the original series in any of these?

I mean, have a reboot...call it "Spiderman Super Ultimate 2.0 Mega Doppler 7000" but is the "Amazing Spiderman" still running after all these years?

Or did they abandon all that history and reboot without continuing the originals?
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No. I spent a good 15 minutes going up and down the racks trying to figure out why titles like Avengers were in single digits on the issue. The rebooted the whole universe.

I asked if the old history still was part of the universe and I got more information about how DC was screwing things up. She apologized for not knowing Marvel much and talking about DC and then would talk about DC more. :lmao:  I am still not clear on whether the original history is part of it or not for Marvel. Ask me some questions about DC though and I might know. :lmao:

 
Arsenal of Doom said:
I thought the 2nd Maguire one was the best of all of them. The first Garfield one was pretty good too, better than I expected. The 3rd Maguire and 2nd Garfield were bad.
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Would agree, 2nd Maguire one & Xmen2 were considered the gold standard for comic book films until Marvel started making their own and really raised the bar. Neither hold up as well now compared to the more recent Marvel films, but still solid movies.

 
Buckna said:
Would agree, 2nd Maguire one & Xmen2 were considered the gold standard for comic book films until Marvel started making their own and really raised the bar. Neither hold up as well now compared to the more recent Marvel films, but still solid movies.
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The Iron Man, Avengers, Captain America, Thor, GotG etc have been done very well. I am glad they really developed a strategy and executed well with it. I am all for it and very happy to have them pounding out the movies. Much like Star Wars. I am sorry, I don't think I will ever get sick of Marvel and Star Wars as long as they are done well.

It kind of makes up for the countless reboots of Spidey, Hulk, Fantastic Four, etc.

 
Linc with the best line "They are only human".  

Looking forward to how next season goes.  Didnt like the fallen agent angle for the end of the season and not sure the postscript leads to anything good.  But still watching.

 
2 episodes in and I am liking Ghost Rider.  Not sure what to think about the new Director in Ep 2.  

Although my Marvel history is a little sketchy in the first ep I couldnt help but wonder why GR was driving Punisher's car? I thought GR rode the bike and Punisher was in the Challenger?  

I did like that they referenced the Sokovia Accords and Ultron in the first episode too.  Even if it was a passing remark. 

 
I caught up with the entire series on Netflix over the summer - the show ranges in quality from bad at the beginning to above average in at least parts of seasons 2-3. But I'm not at all impressed with this Ghost Rider stuff - his supernatural character doesn't really fit the vibe of the show at all IMO. 

 
B Maverick said:
2 episodes in and I am liking Ghost Rider.  Not sure what to think about the new Director in Ep 2.  

Although my Marvel history is a little sketchy in the first ep I couldnt help but wonder why GR was driving Punisher's car? I thought GR rode the bike and Punisher was in the Challenger?  

I did like that they referenced the Sokovia Accords and Ultron in the first episode too.  Even if it was a passing remark. 
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There have been a few GRs in the comics. Johnny Blaze, the original, rode a motorcycle. So did Danny Ketch, the guy who came after Johnny. The version being used in AoS is Robbie Reyes, who drives a black muscle car in the comics (part of the all new, all different Marvel).

 
bcdjr1 said:
There have been a few GRs in the comics. Johnny Blaze, the original, rode a motorcycle. So did Danny Ketch, the guy who came after Johnny. The version being used in AoS is Robbie Reyes, who drives a black muscle car in the comics (part of the all new, all different Marvel).
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ahhh thanks.  

 
thecatch said:
I caught up with the entire series on Netflix over the summer - the show ranges in quality from bad at the beginning to above average in at least parts of seasons 2-3. But I'm not at all impressed with this Ghost Rider stuff - his supernatural character doesn't really fit the vibe of the show at all IMO. 
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The next MCU movie coming out is Dr. Strange, which will break from the science-based superheroes of the current MCU and expand into the realm of the mystical. My guess is that AoS is following suit by bringing GR into the mix.

 
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