**** OFFICIAL Marvel's Avengers: Endgame **** SPOILERS ALLOWED! Enter at your own risk!!! (1 Viewer)

[Chaka]

Most Marvel non- Spiderman villains don't have the name recognition. Even Thanos. Only one who does is Dr Doom.

I think people are underestimating the number of comic book geeks out there. Thanos has been around as a major player since 1973. On the surface it seems that Marvel organically conjured this whole event but, IMO, without us geeks collectively losing our minds at the 2012 Avengers post credit Thanos intro, the casual fans would not have come to these films like they did.

We're the ones who got our children invested and, as the years went by we got our spouses involved and they told their friends "hey these films are kinda fun."

The MCU mythos is ingrained now so Marvel may be able to pick and choose their future villains and know audiences probably will embrace them. But maybe they won't, maybe they'll look at, for example, Kang and echo the thoughts above. Maybe they say "Okay, apparently this guy is somehow as interesting as the guy who almost destroyed the entire freaking universe. But he really just seems like an explodier rushed sequel like every other franchise."

However the reaction from us geeks to a Galactus would immediately validate the him. And that moves the needle. Sure, we will accept a Kang too but we will collectively need a new pair of shorts if Marvel reveals freaking Galactus.

No amount of Green Goblins will do what Galactus can for audiences.

 

[shadyridr]

I think people are underestimating the number of comic book geeks out there. Thanos has been around as a major player since 1973. On the surface it seems that Marvel organically conjured this whole event but, IMO, without us geeks collectively losing our minds at the 2012 Avengers post credit Thanos intro, the casual fans would not have come to these films like they did.

We're the ones who got our children invested and, as the years went by we got our spouses involved and they told their friends "hey these films are kinda fun."

The MCU mythos is ingrained now so Marvel may be able to pick and choose their future villains and know audiences probably will embrace them. But maybe they won't, maybe they'll look at, for example, Kang and echo the thoughts above. Maybe they say "Okay, apparently this guy is somehow as interesting as the guy who almost destroyed the entire freaking universe. But he really just seems like an explodier rushed sequel like every other franchise."

However the reaction from us geeks to a Galactus would immediately validate the him. And that moves the needle. Sure, we will accept a Kang too but we will collectively need a new pair of shorts if Marvel reveals freaking Galactus.

No amount of Green Goblins will do what Galactus can for audiences.

I had no clue who Thanos was at the end of Avengers. That's what I'm calling name recognition. Someone who isn't a comic geek. 

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Within that scene, Sam says something like "I can't imagine a world without Captain America" with the implication being he is more than just a super hero but a symbol of what America is and a symbol of hope.

No one cares about the Falcon - I'm not sure they ever even call him that in the movies just that the equipment he uses is labled as "Project Falcon" - so he wants Sam to continue the Captain America legend. What I don't get is the Sam only operated the military Falcon weapons and has no super power so he'd make a pretty lame Captain America.

Maybe he will go in for Ultimate Frisbee.  

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Tons of options. Tons of them.

You don't need to threaten the entire Universe to make the next Big Bad a compelling threat.

As long as it isn't played by Jesse Eisenberg, I'm good.

 

[TheIronSheik]

A lot depends on the willingness of the audience to forget the previous stabs at Dr. Doom or Galactus. 

Done.  Now what?

 

[TheIronSheik]

I think people are underestimating the number of comic book geeks out there. Thanos has been around as a major player since 1973. On the surface it seems that Marvel organically conjured this whole event but, IMO, without us geeks collectively losing our minds at the 2012 Avengers post credit Thanos intro, the casual fans would not have come to these films like they did.

We're the ones who got our children invested and, as the years went by we got our spouses involved and they told their friends "hey these films are kinda fun."

The MCU mythos is ingrained now so Marvel may be able to pick and choose their future villains and know audiences probably will embrace them. But maybe they won't, maybe they'll look at, for example, Kang and echo the thoughts above. Maybe they say "Okay, apparently this guy is somehow as interesting as the guy who almost destroyed the entire freaking universe. But he really just seems like an explodier rushed sequel like every other franchise."

However the reaction from us geeks to a Galactus would immediately validate the him. And that moves the needle. Sure, we will accept a Kang too but we will collectively need a new pair of shorts if Marvel reveals freaking Galactus.

No amount of Green Goblins will do what Galactus can for audiences.

Serious question here:  Could Marvel just create a new villain for the movies?  Or does it have to come from the comics?  I mean, if it's the same people, is there a reason it has to be on paper before it gets put on film?

 

[shadyridr]

Serious question here:  Could Marvel just create a new villain for the movies?  Or does it have to come from the comics?  I mean, if it's the same people, is there a reason it has to be on paper before it gets put on film?

There's tons of source material. I just don't see the point of creating a new villain.

 

[dhockster]

As long as it isn't played by Jesse Eisenberg, I'm good.

Michael Cera? He's pretty threatening.

 

[Scott Tenorman]

I disagree, with Thors hammer he banged around Thanos the goodest.  While he still was defeated he actually hurt Thanos.

And that leads me to another question, while I get that he can wield Thor's hammer because he's worthy, how is he able to summon lighting?  He's not the god of Thunder. 

Mjolnir is forged by Dwarven blacksmiths, and is composed of the fictional Asgardian metal uru. The side of the hammer carries the inscription "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

is lightening a power of Thor?

So Thanos (without any stones) beat the #### out of two Thors and an Ironman.  Jebus christ.

 

[The Dude]

No amount of Green Goblins will do what Galactus can for audiences.

It's a different spectrum.  The emotional response to Green Goblin (done right) in a Spider-Man movie would far outweigh Galactus.  

I agree that GG can't represent the same threat level.

Spider-Man movies shouldn't run from GG because he's been done before - they should run to him and do it better on a more personal level (Ie Ledger's Joker vs Nicholson's)

 

[Peak]

Spider-Man movies shouldn't run from GG because he's been done before - they should run to him and do it better on a more personal level

I agree with this, but on a slight tip...I'd like to see the next big bad be Norman Osborne, not just the GG.  We've seen the cosmic villain, now a corporate villain.  Bring in the guy who is as big an industrialist as Stark but as crazy as the Joker.  It would lead the way to the Dark Avengers and even include the Skrull version of Secret Wars - which was alluded to in Capt Marvel.  This offers a way to introduce the FF and then usher in Galactus in the next phase.  I don't think every villain has to be on a cosmic level.  There are many great stories that can be built on Earth.  I know Feige has mentioned the next Phase will be more focused on a Cosmic level, but I'd love to see Osborne get his due.  The previous attempts have just been horrible.

 

[Thunderlips]

Serious question here:  Could Marvel just create a new villain for the movies?  Or does it have to come from the comics?  I mean, if it's the same people, is there a reason it has to be on paper before it gets put on film?

Bro.  No.  You think Comic nerds are salty now....wait to see how they'll act when theres a comic book movie in which they don't know every bit of minutia of a character.  If they have to go in completely fresh...like normal plebeians......it would kill them.

 

[Insein]

There's tons of source material. I just don't see the point of creating a new villain.

Creating a new villain would come off as Snokey.

 

[Thunderlips]

You're not doing Dr. Doom without the Fantastic Four.  Doom is arguably the most well known Marvel Villain and maybe the greatest; even moreso than the MCU Thanos.  If F4 isn't in it....Doom isn't going to be in it. 

If they're not bringing in the F4... I don't know.  If there was one mistake the MCU movies made.....it was folding a number of iconic stories into the overall story.  Armor Wars, Civil War, World War Hulk......each of those would have been a good over-arching story for another series.  

 

[Chaka]

I agree with this, but on a slight tip...I'd like to see the next big bad be Norman Osborne, not just the GG.  We've seen the cosmic villain, now a corporate villain.  Bring in the guy who is as big an industrialist as Stark but as crazy as the Joker.  It would lead the way to the Dark Avengers and even include the Skrull version of Secret Wars - which was alluded to in Capt Marvel.  This offers a way to introduce the FF and then usher in Galactus in the next phase.  I don't think every villain has to be on a cosmic level.  There are many great stories that can be built on Earth.  I know Feige has mentioned the next Phase will be more focused on a Cosmic level, but I'd love to see Osborne get his due.  The previous attempts have just been horrible.

Great call.

I agree that it may not be a great idea to go with a cosmic level big bad for the next phase. At least not initially, it risks turning the phases into a redundant formula.

 

[Statorama]

World War Hulk

What a great story.  That (and Planet Hulk) were just victims of timing / someone else having the rights to the FF.  Tweaking it to fit into Ragnarok certainly helped that movie though.

 

[Statorama]

I agree with this, but on a slight tip...I'd like to see the next big bad be Norman Osborne, not just the GG.  We've seen the cosmic villain, now a corporate villain.  Bring in the guy who is as big an industrialist as Stark but as crazy as the Joker.  It would lead the way to the Dark Avengers and even include the Skrull version of Secret Wars - which was alluded to in Capt Marvel.  This offers a way to introduce the FF and then usher in Galactus in the next phase.  I don't think every villain has to be on a cosmic level.  There are many great stories that can be built on Earth.  I know Feige has mentioned the next Phase will be more focused on a Cosmic level, but I'd love to see Osborne get his due.  The previous attempts have just been horrible.

The corporate villains of the MCU just don't seem to catch on.  Obediah Stane, Justin Hammer, Darren Cross, etc. just haven't seemed that menacing.  I'm not saying it can't be done (Dark Avengers was a great pull), but the stakes of someone committing crimes at the corporate level just don't seem as high as Marvel has ramped things up to otherwise.  

Where I think the corporate villain is going to get his due is on Disney's streaming service (think Kingpin vs Daredevil on Netflix) where the story can be better fleshed out.

Captain Marvel killed a lot of great Skrull story lines (Secret Invasion!), which is a shame.

 

[The Dude]

I agree with this, but on a slight tip...I'd like to see the next big bad be Norman Osborne, not just the GG.  We've seen the cosmic villain, now a corporate villain.  Bring in the guy who is as big an industrialist as Stark but as crazy as the Joker.  It would lead the way to the Dark Avengers and even include the Skrull version of Secret Wars - which was alluded to in Capt Marvel.  This offers a way to introduce the FF and then usher in Galactus in the next phase.  I don't think every villain has to be on a cosmic level.  There are many great stories that can be built on Earth.  I know Feige has mentioned the next Phase will be more focused on a Cosmic level, but I'd love to see Osborne get his due.  The previous attempts have just been horrible.

I don;t care for that take myself - as a corporate villain he would always be second rate to Lex Luthor.  I think he would be so much better in a Spider-man trilogy.  All 3 movies could play into the rise and fall of Osborn -with full on GG in the 3rd.

 

[James Daulton]

I hate how Hulk is so underpowered in the movies.  A full on raging Hulk would wreck Thanos without the stones. 

 

[Buckychudd]

I hate how Hulk is so underpowered in the movies.  A full on raging Hulk would wreck Thanos without the stones. 

He got beat by Iron Man in A2, Thor in Ragnorak, Thanos in IW.  Very tiring what they did to him.

 

[Chaka]

So Thanos (without any stones) beat the #### out of two Thors and an Ironman.  Jebus christ.

Yes, yes he did.

 

[comfortably numb]

Which one is Thanos?

 

[shadyridr]

Which one is Thanos?

@Don't Noonan

A little help here?

 

[Peak]

I don;t care for that take myself - as a corporate villain he would always be second rate to Lex Luthor.  I think he would be so much better in a Spider-man trilogy.  All 3 movies could play into the rise and fall of Osborn -with full on GG in the 3rd.

2nd rate to Lex Luthor?    Maybe equivalent, but not less than Lex.  

Norman has been in the center of many great Marvel stories aside from just being a Spider-man nemesis.  Yes he brought GG, but he was also instrumental in propelling the Thunderbolts and Secret Invasion storylines, but also Dark Reign and the Dark Avengers.  He turned SHIELD into HAMMER.  He brought us the Spider-man Clone saga (okay, maybe not the best storyline), and many others.  His impact has been felt across the MCU and not just Spider-man.  

 

[Don't Noonan]

@Don't Noonan

A little help here?

Pretty sure he is the guy who looks like Hulk but not green.  Although I believe he does have a daughter who is green so perhaps he is half Hulk?

 

[TheIronSheik]

I hate how Hulk is so underpowered in the movies.  A full on raging Hulk would wreck Thanos without the stones. 

I'm not a huge fan of the half Hulk, half Bruce Banner persona.  I get that it's probably a comic book thing, but "HULK SMASH!" is what I want out of my Hulk.  Not a big green guy with glasses reading books.

 

[The Dude]

2nd rate to Lex Luthor?    Maybe equivalent, but not less than Lex.  

Norman has been in the center of many great Marvel stories aside from just being a Spider-man nemesis.  Yes he brought GG, but he was also instrumental in propelling the Thunderbolts and Secret Invasion storylines, but also Dark Reign and the Dark Avengers.  He turned SHIELD into HAMMER.  He brought us the Spider-man Clone saga (okay, maybe not the best storyline), and many others.  His impact has been felt across the MCU and not just Spider-man.  

You know your MCU.  

And in no means am I trying to argue - just a little fun discussion.  Yeah, Norman did all those things but his transformation was due to Bendis on one of his revisionist history benders.

My boiled down  point is this - if you return Norman to his roots - the father of Parker's best friend and play out his fall over a trilogy there is so much better content to mine than making him a super criminal corporate mastermind capable of facing the Avengers.

Both scenarios could be handled well  - but as GG  he is one of the greatest villains of all time.  For me, he doesn't even come to mind as a top Avengers villain.

I do agree that the next super team needs to fave a villain super team.

 

[The Duff Man]

Secret Wars would be an interesting opportunity to combine universes now that they have access to Xmen. 

I think it is hard for them to bring in these characters at this point. Where were they when all of this other action was going down?

But if they were coming from an alternate reality, brought together by the Beyonder, after the main event was over they could keep everyone in the same world. 

 

[bigbottom]

Not sure it was mentioned in here or not, but Marvel's use of their female characters in this movie was terrific.  The scenes with Pepper Potts as Rescue could have went wrong in a million different ways, but good gosh that was great.  Also thought her end scene with Tony was legitimately touching.  That Black Widow self sacrifice, Valkyrie's scenes with Thor...but dang I was edge of my seat double fists in the air with their use of Scarlet Witch, very glad to see her use her powers more effectively.  I really dug that they didn't go Mary Sue with any of their characters, everything seemed earned and real.  Excellent acting, writing, and direction there.  Bravo.

I agree, with two exceptions. Couldn’t really stand Captain Marvel. I didn’t see her standalone movie, so I probably didn’t have the investment in the character that I otherwise would have, but she annoyed me big time in endgame. Second, the scene where all the women gather to help Marvel get to the van was eye-rollingly bad. Just so, so bad. 

 

[Chaka]

Thanks Chaka, for single handedly creating the MCU.

You're welcome.

Now, pay me.

 

[James Daulton]

I'm not a huge fan of the half Hulk, half Bruce Banner persona.  I get that it's probably a comic book thing, but "HULK SMASH!" is what I want out of my Hulk.  Not a big green guy with glasses reading books.

Agree.  And that kind of takes the whole infinite rage and infinite strength out of the occasion.  When Hulk fought Supes, Supes was beating him down pretty good until Hulk got so angry that his strength finally matched that of Supes.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Second, the scene where all the women gather to help Marvel get to the van was eye-rollingly bad. Just so, so bad. 

I kept thinking, "Look!  Girls!"

It was a skosh patronizing.

 

[B Maverick]

My 10 year old daughter loved the women power scene.  At the end of the day that's who it was for, the young girls.  Patronizing?  Shoehorned in?  Eye Roll worthy?  Sure.  But I'm ok with it since she loved it.

 

[toshiba]

the scene where all the women gather to help Marvel get to the van was eye-rollingly bad. Just so, so bad. 

I hate those scenes that just have the guys in them.  They are over the top!

 

[need2know]

I think people are underestimating the number of comic book geeks out there. Thanos has been around as a major player since 1973. On the surface it seems that Marvel organically conjured this whole event but, IMO, without us geeks collectively losing our minds at the 2012 Avengers post credit Thanos intro, the casual fans would not have come to these films like they did.

We're the ones who got our children invested and, as the years went by we got our spouses involved and they told their friends "hey these films are kinda fun."

The MCU mythos is ingrained now so Marvel may be able to pick and choose their future villains and know audiences probably will embrace them. But maybe they won't, maybe they'll look at, for example, Kang and echo the thoughts above. Maybe they say "Okay, apparently this guy is somehow as interesting as the guy who almost destroyed the entire freaking universe. But he really just seems like an explodier rushed sequel like every other franchise."

However the reaction from us geeks to a Galactus would immediately validate the him. And that moves the needle. Sure, we will accept a Kang too but we will collectively need a new pair of shorts if Marvel reveals freaking Galactus.

No amount of Green Goblins will do what Galactus can for audiences.

If they do galactus dont they need to bring in silver surfer?

 

[bigbottom]

I hate those scenes that just have the guys in them.  They are over the top!

Oh come on. This isn’t about giving women their due in the Marvel universe. The women in the movie kicked total ###. It was awesome. But having them all magically assemble in the same location on the battlefield for the sole purpose of creating what was effectively a movie poster tableau was so forced and cringeworthy that it took me completely out of the moment. 

 

[bigbottom]

My 10 year old daughter loved the women power scene.  At the end of the day that's who it was for, the young girls.  Patronizing?  Shoehorned in?  Eye Roll worthy?  Sure.  But I'm ok with it since she loved it.

I’m glad she liked it. Makes me feel better about it. 

 

[toshiba]

I hate those scenes that just have the guys in them.  They are over the top!

Oh come on. This isn’t about giving women their due in the Marvel universe. The women in the movie kicked total ###. It was awesome. But having them all magically assemble in the same location on the battlefield for the sole purpose of creating what was effectively a movie poster tableau was so forced and cringeworthy that it took me completely out of the moment. 

Actually just the famous ones did, just like we see from the men.

 

[Chaka]

If they do galactus dont they need to bring in silver surfer?

God willing.

But Galactus had many heralds. Terrax would be an awesome villain.

 

[Psychopav]

Oh come on. This isn’t about giving women their due in the Marvel universe. The women in the movie kicked total ###. It was awesome. But having them all magically assemble in the same location on the battlefield for the sole purpose of creating what was effectively a movie poster tableau was so forced and cringeworthy that it took me completely out of the moment. 

I thought maybe they could have fixed that and still gotten the point across by including Spider-Man in the run through the battlefield.  But it might have been tricky to establish the need to hand the gauntlet off to Captain Marvel then.

 

[Chaka]

Oh come on. This isn’t about giving women their due in the Marvel universe. The women in the movie kicked total ###. It was awesome. But having them all magically assemble in the same location on the battlefield for the sole purpose of creating what was effectively a movie poster tableau was so forced and cringeworthy that it took me completely out of the moment. 

It was forced. And it was still awesome.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I’m glad she liked it. Makes me feel better about it. 

my wife, daughter and I all enjoyed the scene as well.

Of course it was forced but you have to acknowledge that almost every fan service scene is forced one way or another.

 

[comfortably numb]

Guys

It was a cheesey moment in a comic book movie. 

The 80s built hundreds of movies around these cheesey moments. If you wanna see a "message" you will see one. Just take it as another cheesey moment in showbusiness. 

 

[Capella]

I’m glad she liked it. Makes me feel better about it. 

My wife loved it. So did her friend. 

 

[Chaka]

So where can I find the Girl Power poster? I want to get it...for my niece. My niece, yeah that's the ticket.

 

[Statorama]

I agree, with two exceptions. Couldn’t really stand Captain Marvel. I didn’t see her standalone movie, so I probably didn’t have the investment in the character that I otherwise would have, but she annoyed me big time in endgame. Second, the scene where all the women gather to help Marvel get to the van was eye-rollingly bad. Just so, so bad. 

I'm not the biggest fan of Captain Marvel so that "raised eyebrow" scene with Thor rubbed me the wrong way, but otherwise I thought she was fine

 

[TheIronSheik]

I hate those scenes that just have the guys in them.  They are over the top!

The difference is they aren't doing the "guy scenes" to make a point.  People aren't complaining that there are women super heroes.  They are saying it was just ridiculous that during a crucial battle scene, all of the women and no men.  It just doesn't make sense.  Honestly, when I see stuff like this, it feels patronizing to women.  I think it says a lot more that Black Widow was part of the original Avengers and no one had to make a big deal about her then that strange scene in Endgame. 

 

[Capella]

The difference is they aren't doing the "guy scenes" to make a point.  

       

YES THERE ISNT ENOUGH MALE REPRESENTATION IN THE AVENGERS MOVIES

 

[parasaurolophus]

       

YES THERE ISNT ENOUGH MALE REPRESENTATION IN THE AVENGERS MOVIES

Be honest. You only typed this post because your wife was reading over your shoulder, right? 

It completely misrepresents what he typed, it was in all caps, and had some smileys. Cant figure out why else you would type it. 

 

[Chaka]

The difference is they aren't doing the "guy scenes" to make a point.  People aren't complaining that there are women super heroes.  They are saying it was just ridiculous that during a crucial battle scene, all of the women and no men.  It just doesn't make sense.  Honestly, when I see stuff like this, it feels patronizing to women.  I think it says a lot more that Black Widow was part of the original Avengers and no one had to make a big deal about her then that strange scene in Endgame. 

It doesn't have to make sense to be awesome. Which it was. And was it really for women or was for girls?