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***OFFICIAL*** Minnesota Vikings 2016 Season Thread (1 Viewer)

snogger said:
Everything is pointing to a defensive battle.. Vikings D should be up to the task and cause a few turnovers and possibly score yet another TD..

Going 26-13 Vikes!!!  :football:
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Was tempted to delete this since no one quoted me.. or at least edit it :X

The Viking players are going to need tomorrow off just so they can get their hearing back after the chewing out Zimmer will give them on the flight home.

At least next week is at home and sounds like it will be facing Cutler who is always good for a couple picks. ;)

 
I recall Ross Tucker saying that the Vikings were better off going with a practice squad type player than signing Jake Long.  I really did not want  to believe that was true but his argument is more convincing after today.

 
No way to spin it, this one was just ugly.  Hoping adjustments can be made and this one ends up being just a bad game, but nagging feeling says O-line mess is catching up to them and there's not much they can do unless the guys they currently have get better.  Very doubtful they can make a significant enough move to fix this, so gonna have to improve the plays of the guys that are there.  Wish we knew what was up with Mike Harris, would be nice if we could get him back at least, but that's a mystery with no clues at this point.

Putting faith in Zimmer and staff, if it can be fixed they'll do it.  Still an awesome defense, and that will keep you in games all season so certainly no reason for panic Vikes fans.  Most every successful season has some rough stretches when the league adjusts to what you do or don't do, time to counter punch boys.

 
Boy, tough game to watch. The offensive line seems historically bad at both run and pass blocking. Even on 4 man rush without stunts 2 guys were getting through. Just really tough to understand how a unit can be that bad. I was somewhat hopeful with new bodies and new coaching but Zimmer is right, they are soft..

 
BigJim® said:
Boy, tough game to watch. The offensive line seems historically bad at both run and pass blocking. Even on 4 man rush without stunts 2 guys were getting through. Just really tough to understand how a unit can be that bad. I was somewhat hopeful with new bodies and new coaching but Zimmer is right, they are soft..
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Eagles def line is very good.  You won't be seeing that every week.  You guys will feel better after beating the toothless bears next monday

 
I for one am glad they lost. Certainly didn't want to deal with the kind of hype and pressure that Dolphins fans have had to deal with all these years.

 
The Vikings band wagon had gotten a bit too heavy I think. It always makes me nervous when even the most pessimistic people can't find any reason to doubt the team. That usually doesn't end well. 

So getting beaten soundly by the Eagles is hopefully a wake up call and people can start evaluating the Vikings more objectively again.

What I don't like is that Zimmer said the players were focused coming back from their break. That they hadn't forgotten things during the break the way he had experienced in the past. That seems like wishful thinking now.

The coaches and players had an extra week to prepare for this game yet they had no answers. Or the answers they thought they had, such as playing Jake Long at left tackle must have started with some really bad questions.

As Zimmer said, there will be no free agent or other acquisition to fix the offensive line this season. They have to get better with the players and coaches they have.

TJ Clemmings is showing the same flaws and weaknesses he had all of last season. I think it may have hurt the confidence and chemistry of the offensive line players moving Clemmings to RT (benching Sirles) and Long at LT. Then after Long showed he wasn't up to the task, moving Clemmings back to the left side, then Sirles started playing really badly as well.

Have to give credit to their coverage as well because the Vikings and Bradford have been one of the quickest teams getting the ball out and using mostly 3 step drops up until this game. The Eagles knowing this, seemed to be able to take those quick throws away from Sam and forcing him to hold the ball longer than the line can protect him. This is basically what the Vikings defense does to every team they play.

I guess we had some reason to hope they could fix this with a move outside the team, because that has been the answer to replacing Teddy this year. I guess I wouldn't rule out a trade for a good offensive tackle, I just don't think other teams are looking to part with one at this time. You also have the issue of it taking time for the offensive line to build good timing and communication with each other and the rest of the offense. So even if they made a move today, it may be weeks before that chemistry would develop and gel into a cohesive unit.

You can't win football games if you cannot block the other team at least a little bit. I agree with Zimmers comments about it not being good football. 

The special teams mistakes were huge as well. The Vikings have gotten used to be on the better end of special teams, not in this game however and that also made a huge difference.

As far as Bradford I don't think he has as good pocket awareness or mobility as Teddy. He needed to get the ball out a bit quicker than he was. Simplified play book and the Eagles knowing Bradfords tendencies better than most other teams made their game plan excellent for preventing the quick throws I think. There needs to be some changes because other teams will do their best to replicate the defensive blueprint the Eagles just put on tape.

 
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Root of the problem: Vikings haven’t really drafted O-linemen early

The exception to this, Matt Kalil did not pan out as hoped or expected when he was healthy. He was better than Clemmings or Sirles though.

Of course the thing that does not get considered when making this conclusion is that for the Vikings to draft other offensive linemen with higher draft picks, would have required that they not select other players who they did pick, such as Mackensie Alexander or Laquon Treadwell in 2016. Tray Waynes, Eric Kendricks or Danielle Hunter in 2015. Anthony Barr, Teddy Bridgewater, Scott Crichton or Jerrick McKinnon in 2014.

Now Cricton had injuries and has washed out as a potential rotation guy, still drafting potential edge rushers is a good idea and the Vikings have for the most part done well with finding some good players in the 3rd and 4th round at DE.

The bigger problem is that the Vikings are not showing themselves to be good at identifying what a good offensive lineman is. Recent early picks of TJ Clemmings and Willie Beavers have been poor replacements at tackle. That makes me question if they can identify what makes a good player at these positions. It also makes me question if they can coach an incomplete player into becoming a quality starter if they do have one.

They have been successful in developing centers from later round draft picks and as has been discussed before, draft picks in the 4th round or later have more successful careers from players at offensive line than those rounds do for players of other positions. So as a draft strategy trying to hit on later round offensive linemen picks, is playing the odds.

That said I welcome some higher investment into the tackle position either through free agency, trade or through the draft. I am not sure that a healthy Kalil is a good answer for the asking price, he would be the best option currently on the team and I am not against bringing him back if the money isn't too unreasonable. The Vikings are paying him more than he likely earned by using the 5th year option on him.

 
Vikings Announce 6 Practice Squad Moves

The Vikings announced they have signed offensive lineman Austin Shepherd, defensive end Sterling Bailey (Georgia) and defensive back Cedric Thompson (Minnesota).

The team also announced the release of tight ends Kyle Carter (Penn State) and Brian Leonhardt (Bemidji State) and quarterback Joel Stave (Wisconsin).

Shepherd is rejoining the Vikings after spending all of 2015 on Minnesota’s 53-man roster. The Vikings selected him in the seventh round with the 228th overall pick. He was released during roster reductions before the season.
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I am still not sure why the Vikings were having Shepherd play guard during training camp and preseason or why he didn't make the team or practice squad until now. He was one of the few bright spots besides Berger on last years offensive line.

 
Hov34 said:
WTH is Pete Carroll talking about?  Jake Long?  That was 2 weeks ago.

https://twitter.com/bcondotta/status/791379321692708865
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I have no idea and what Pete Carroll might know about it doesn't mean much. I am not even sure why Carroll would be talking about the Vikings.

There have been lots of rumors about the Vikings possibly trading for a tackle. Most often these rumors involve trading for Joe Thomas of the Browns. There are a lot of teams who might have interest in Joe Thomas and Seattle may be one of those teams. So I suppose it is possible Carroll heard something about the Vikings also being interested in trading for him. If I was Cleveland I would tell Carroll the Vikings offered us X for Long.. can you offer more? Or whatever the best offer they had might be.

Hue Jackson has said they are not trading Thomas, but he is not the GM so it isn't completely his call.

I wouldn't be against the move if there is any truth to this. The offensive line needs to improve and Thomas is a good player. It is starting to get a bit late in the season for these moves to be worthwhile at the same time. It takes time learning the playbook and developing timing, communication and chemistry.

The Vikings tackles are so bad though that I understand people hoping for something to change.

 
If the Vikings were to trade for Joe Thomas it would require freeing up cap space for his contract. 

According to this Thomas has a base salary of $8.3 million and $8 million in 2017 as well as 2018.

He is currently 31 years old. Linemen can play at a high level until they are 34 or sometimes even older than that. He would be 33 years old in 2018 on the last year of his deal.

The Vikings only have something like $700 thousand in cap space available. 

I don't think they can free up space by moving Peterson or Kalil because of the injury guarantees? So to be able to accomidate Thomas contract would require they trade away another player on the active roster to free up cap space.

Vikings current contracts

Kyle Rudolph could clear the cap space. No idea why Cleveland would want to take on his contract though.

Brian Robison could perhaps free up enough space that a couple other moves would make it work, or perhaps Captain Munnerlin?

They could clear $2 million by getting rid of Chad Greenway.

I don't see any way they trade Griffen, Smith, Joseph, and Boone seems unlikely as well.

None of the other players would create much savings. as they all have pretty reasonable contracts.

So it seems unlikely that the Vikings could or would want to make a trade for Thomas happen.

 
There are some savvy Vikes fans in here and so I ask....  Is there anything at all you guys can add on Patterson today?  A lot of us are in a quandary here and can't wait until tomorrow to make the decision, if you know what I mean.  Thanks a lot.

 
Rodrigo Duterte said:
There are some savvy Vikes fans in here and so I ask....  Is there anything at all you guys can add on Patterson today?  A lot of us are in a quandary here and can't wait until tomorrow to make the decision, if you know what I mean.  Thanks a lot.
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Based on the last press conference with Mike Zimmer, he seemed pretty confident that Patterson would be available to play. He did practice on Saturday.

How much Patterson will play would still be in question. He might play but mostly be used on special teams, or he could play special teams and offense.

Patterson has had 40 or more plays on offense the last 3 weeks, however his numbers from the Eagles game came during garbage time when the Eagles were not pressuring as much. Patterson didn't do much for the first 3 quarters of the game and Bradford was looking for other receivers for the most part until that last drive.

:shrug: Patterson is always a big play waiting to happen and he has scored a couple times in the red zone offense recently. I still don't see why Patterson would be a better starting option than likely 100 or so other WR you could be considering.

 
snogger said:
Game Day!!!  After last week I think Zimmer has this team ready to kick some butt.. 30-10 Vikings!! :thumbup:
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I was WAY to confident on Zimmer getting this team back on track.. only half time but dam they look as flat this week on both sides of the ball as last week. :kicksrock:

 
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Teddy got killed in 2015 and now Bradford is getting killed. Difference is Teddy could get away. 

The line is beyond embarrassment as everyone knows. Is there some unwritten rule about claiming OL from other teams' practice squads or do we just not know enough about them to take a chance on adding them to the active roster?

All the Sendejo bashers need to eat a little crow I think. He's been solid this year and his absence is notable. 

 
What we're seeing is part of the reason I wasn't convinced Bridgewater could take the next step this season. Sure, Teddy is better able to run for his life than Bradford, but that is all he would be doing in this critical development season. The situation wouldn't foster scanning route options, using pump fakes to manipulate defender coverage, and other actual progressions of QB development. Assuming he's ever able to return from his injury, Teddy's development may actually benefit from missing this season of certain abuse. You can tell it is affecting Bradford's accuracy, even on downs that he gets ok protection. 

Predictable runs up the gut won't work behind a line that gives ground when it should be creating space, and protection won't allow slow developing WR routes. Unfortunately, those are the only plays we seem to call.

Most disheartening thing for me is that we played a team with 2 reserve guards, and they gashed for 158 rushing yards and allowed 1 sack.

Oh well, maybe a home game is what this team needs to find some stability.  

 
As much as I like Zimmer, this team has no heart just like previous seasons. I think Sendejo is better than given credit for, but his absence doesn't forgive the play of the defense last night. They were pathetic. 

Not much to say about the O line. It is what it is and it seems Norv has no plans to try to help it out. Juts keep trying the same things over and over (offensive genius). At some point, you need to bring in another TE or get a FB that can help block. 

 
Cjw_55106 said:
As much as I like Zimmer, this team has no heart just like previous seasons. I think Sendejo is better than given credit for, but his absence doesn't forgive the play of the defense last night. They were pathetic. 

Not much to say about the O line. It is what it is and it seems Norv has no plans to try to help it out. Juts keep trying the same things over and over (offensive genius). At some point, you need to bring in another TE or get a FB that can help block. 
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Mentioned that in the game thread.. He has a game plan and if it isn't working.. too bad, I'm a genius and it is the players fault it is not working not his play calling .. :wall:  

 
Seemed to me Bradford was ducking from phantom pressure three or four times.  Not to say there was not also real pressure last night, but he was hearing footsteps where there were none.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
Seemed to me Bradford was ducking from phantom pressure three or four times.  Not to say there was not also real pressure last night, but he was hearing footsteps where there were none.
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You would be too if you got hit as many times as he is, and sometimes Sandwiched between Defenders as Both Tackles failed to even slow down the defenders.. At some point you start hearing foot steps and just assume your tackles failed yet again..

In the end I blame Norv  :angry:

You know your OL SUCKS, yet you continue to leave the tackles on an island.. It doesn't take a "Genius"  to see it is time to keep a TE and/or a FB in on every passing down to help..

 
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So I am looking for something optimistic to say about how the Vikings have been playing the last two weeks.

Losing to the Bears in the way they did is about as bad as it can get I think, so the Vikings may be at rock bottom now and no where to go but up.

That is my best shot at it. They played really poorly. Not just the offense this time either. The defense was pretty bad as well.

 
Upon Further Review... Time to worry after Vikings get dominated again, plus thoughts on Bradford and Diggs

FIVE SNAP COUNT OBSERVATIONS

1. With Andrew Sendejo out with an ankle injury, seventh-round draft pick Jayron Kearse got the start next to Harrison Smith at safety. But after taking a bad angle on the 69-yard run by Bears rookie running back Jordan Howard, he was benched in favor of Anthony Harris. Kearse later got back in on defense, but Harris ended up out-snapping him 48 to 15.

2. Matt Asiata got the start at running back with Jerick McKinnon sidelined and ended up playing 43 of the 61 offensive snaps. Ronnie Hillman played the other 18. The two combined to run for 57 yards on 18 carries.

3. Cordarrelle Patterson, who was cleared through the concussion protocol over the weekend, resumed his role as the No. 3 wide receiver behind Stefon Diggs and Adam Thielen. He played 41 snaps but was targeted only three times, catching all three for 36 yards. Top pick Laquon Treadwell was active but did not play on offense. Charles Johnson got 19 snaps.

4. With the Vikings in 11 personnel for much of the game and tight end Kyle Rudolph playing all but four offensive snaps, we did not see much of tight end Rhett Ellison (nine snaps), fullback Zach Line (five) and rookie tight end David Morgan (two). Tight end MyCole Pruitt did not play.

5. The Bears, on the other hand, used a lot of two-wide sets, which meant that the Vikings’ base defenders had busy nights. Defensive tackles Linval Joseph and Shamar Stephen played 47 and 41 snaps, respectively, and Greenway played 34. Nickelback Captain Munnerlyn played only 27.
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snogger said:
You would be too if you got hit as many times as he is, and sometimes Sandwiched between Defenders as Both Tackles failed to even slow down the defenders.. At some point you start hearing foot steps and just assume your tackles failed yet again..

In the end I blame Norv  :angry:

You know your OL SUCKS, yet you continue to leave the tackles on an island.. It doesn't take a "Genius"  to see it is time to keep a TE and/or a FB in on every passing down to help..
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http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/lbg/5856002145.html

 
teatew said:
snogger said:
You would be too if you got hit as many times as he is, and sometimes Sandwiched between Defenders as Both Tackles failed to even slow down the defenders.. At some point you start hearing foot steps and just assume your tackles failed yet again..

In the end I blame Norv  :angry:

You know your OL SUCKS, yet you continue to leave the tackles on an island.. It doesn't take a "Genius"  to see it is time to keep a TE and/or a FB in on every passing down to help..
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http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/lbg/5856002145.html
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Not sure if I should :cry: because it is true or just :lmao:

 
Did he resign or "resign"? Who would hire a quitter whose playcalling was terrible. Is he retiring or did they force him out?

Either way this can only be a good thing for Vikings offensive players, right?

 
Sooooo..... Diggs and Rudolph owner here.

Any changes expected in the offense? Shurmur was TE coach... so more Rudolph?

Just tea leaves, I guess, but the offense has stunk the last 2 games. The Eagles I get. Pretty shocking bad result vs the Bears, can't ignore what just happened.

Anyone helped here?

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Sooooo..... Diggs and Rudolph owner here.

Any changes expected in the offense? Shurmur was TE coach... so more Rudolph?

Just tea leaves, I guess, but the offense has stunk the last 2 games. The Eagles I get. Pretty shocking bad result vs the Bears, can't ignore what just happened.

Anyone helped here?
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No clue.  How do you fix that dumpster fire?  I'm sure he'll try more of the quick passing game that worked before the bye, but not sure who'll benefit most.  Patterson maybe.

 
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