Doug B
Footballguy
That article was published 13 hours before the beatdown in Green Bay. Maybe too much shouldn’t ride on one game … nevertheless, it’s now a hammerlock that Rizzi will not get the Saints 2025 head coaching job.
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*** OFFICIAL New Orleans Saints Thread *** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
When you are starting a couple of defensive players that Washington cut ... well that's not good.
Statorama
Footballguy
That DET playoff game didn’t make me feel any better
Statorama
Footballguy
Hearing more Glenn-to-NYJ chatter, which given his playing history makes sense. If the Saints want another defensive minded HC, then go with a Ron Rivera type.
I'd like the next HC to be an offensive-minded coach. I think Matt Nagy would be a good fit. The Saints have some weapons, and showed in the first two games that when healthy they can turn it on with anybody. In 2018 Nagy brought a Mitch Trubisky led Bears team into the playoffs, and was a 'Doink' FG try away from a playoff win. Reflecting back on that season, what he was able to get out of Trubisky was impressive (including a six TD game against the Bucs). He was ridden out on a rail because he couldn't turn Trubisky (or later Fields) into Patrick Mahomes.
I'd like to see what a Nagy-Kubiak combo would look like.
I'd like the next HC to be an offensive-minded coach. I think Matt Nagy would be a good fit. The Saints have some weapons, and showed in the first two games that when healthy they can turn it on with anybody. In 2018 Nagy brought a Mitch Trubisky led Bears team into the playoffs, and was a 'Doink' FG try away from a playoff win. Reflecting back on that season, what he was able to get out of Trubisky was impressive (including a six TD game against the Bucs). He was ridden out on a rail because he couldn't turn Trubisky (or later Fields) into Patrick Mahomes.
I'd like to see what a Nagy-Kubiak combo would look like.
If Rizzi does go to the Broncos, it's pretty much Kellen Moore or ? Hopefully that's enough to force Benson's hand to move on from Loomis. Wishful thinking?
Doug B
Footballguy
Yes. Loomis is locked in as part of the team’s succession plan in case something happens to Gayle Benson.
Breaking Down Gayle Benson’s Plan To Keep New Orleans Saints, Pelicans Local
New Orleans Saints and Pelicans owner Gayle Benson, along with team officials, revealed succession plans in detail for the first time on Wednesday, explaining that the teams would be sold with the goal of keeping the teams in New Orleans while proceeds would go directly to local charities.
www.forbes.com
I said something about this in another thread last week but Loomis is the most powerful GM in the league who does not own the team.
But as to the bolded, could she be forced out like Snyder in light of this issue rearing it's head back up? https://apnews.com/article/new-orle...ch-sex-abuse-77f92deb50e6333fa04a9db1897f8171
Right now it seems unlikely it would rise to that level or forcing her out but these things can turn. Opinions can differ, and I understand the difference between protecting your interests and that of the church, but IMO what she is accused of doing is multiple degrees worse then what Paterno was accused of doing(or not doing) and all it took was a few days of media fueled mob turning on him to fire him, disgrace him, tear his statue down and vacate over 100 wins.
I'd say MUCH WORSE than anything Dan Synder or Jerry Richardson did, and they were both forced out.
Doug B
Footballguy
I don't see that the situations are comparable at all. I can see, though, that the Saints' matter is going to be widely misunderstood.
Benson is at a level of remove. Saints PR head Greg Bensel (also in the team succession plan ... for now) is going to end up talking the fall here.
EDIT: This was one of the articles that re-broke the story today. It's long, but contains plenty of detail.
‘Crisis communications’: emails show how NFL’s Saints and NBA’s Pelicans helped New Orleans church spin abuse scandal
Unearthed emails detail how the sports franchises’ owner and PR team counseled archdiocese on how to respond to unfolding clergy-abuse case
Ok, but seems blatantly obvious to why they are.
Doug B
Footballguy
Disagree. Really nowhere to go here.
Doug B
Footballguy
This doesn't mean anything long-term ... but might as well memorialize Roger Goodell's first off-the-cuff take:
rockaction
Footballguy
I don't see that the situations are comparable at all. I can see, though, that the Saints' matter is going to be widely misunderstood.
Benson is at a level of remove. Saints PR head Greg Bensel (also in the team succession plan ... for now) is going to end up talking the fall here.
EDIT: This was one of the articles that re-broke the story today. It's long, but contains plenty of detail.
‘Crisis communications’: emails show how NFL’s Saints and NBA’s Pelicans helped New Orleans church spin abuse scandal
Unearthed emails detail how the sports franchises’ owner and PR team counseled archdiocese on how to respond to unfolding clergy-abuse casewww.theguardian.com
It’s long is an understatement. I just got through half in about twenty-thirty minutes, and I don’t read slowly.
God. New Orleans is truly a forsaken place. And the Church I was once confirmed in was a cesspool, apparently. God bless the priests I disliked for brimstone sermons. They were angels in retrospect.
Doug B
Footballguy
Done deal -- Kellen Moore is now the New Orleans Saints' head coach.
Statorama
Footballguy
I'm ok with this.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
-I'm not a Saints' homer and I respect Doug and Stat's opinion, want to hear from them too as I voice my thoughts
I'm not a big fan of Hire the Coach and we'll figure out the QB situation as we go along...I'm reserving judgement until I hear or understand what the plan is at QB
Carr is still under contract to my knowledge but the results with him thus far have been pretty mediocre.
It's too far along IMHO to start trying to arm Carr with more weapons, that ship has sailed IMHO
It's time to start thinking about the QB of the future for New Orleans, at this point most coaches, fans and media know about how far Carr will take you at QB
The Saints are a team much like Raiders that I see making.a move for a QB after the 1st round. I realize Spencer Rattler was drafted last season but I see him mostly as a back up and would want another young arm in camp from say the 2nd or 3rd round to compete with him
-There are a couple Veteran arms that are likely to be available but we also have seen some of the limitations with that.
Do you really want to get into a bidding war for Sam Darnold? I can't answer that for the fan base, maybe if I were a Saints' fan it would seem like a great idea.
The first fork in the road IMO is the QB position
Here is what Kellen Moore is NOT gonna do...make your defense better. So if you hire this guy as your head coach and you don't create an explosive offense for him quickly, then why would you hire him to begin with so I have to assume they plan on going offense heavy in the off season
Does that mean better numbers right away as @higgins is asking? I have to wait and see on that but on the surface I'm not expecting huge returns right away
They could come out of the Draft with a WR/RB in the 1st and 2nd, QB in the 3rd, several Tight Ends that could make an immediate impact, ALL teams could use a little tuning and upgrade on the OL so I'll have to dig deeper on what they have right now.
Moore is a big hire and has shown a strong ability as an OC, will that translate to Head Coach? I'm not going to be negative and sell him short but he needs a lot of help to get this offense anywhere near what he leaves behind in Philly, don't expect miracles
Doug B
Footballguy
This is where I'm at -- especially the bolded.
I actually think Carr can support decent fantasy WRs, even in 2025. The big "however" is that Carr positively needs elite pass protection in front of him. The Saints line last year, when healthy, did great in blocking for the run ... but they struggled in pass protection all season. That has to change before anyone's fantasy outlook gets bumped.
Statorama
Footballguy
Completely agree. I have no visions of the Saints playing in the next Superbowl, so Moore has a really long leash with me.
I'm kind of surprised he took this gig, but there's upside on offense if they can stay healthy. With some patches on the OL and a full season out of the skill players, this is a playoff offense.
People can bark at Dennis Allen all they like, but his schemes hid some holes (especially in the defensive backfield) and I think he's really going to be missed. Special Teams were always above average with Rizzi as well.
Moore wasn't my first choice, but it looked like no veteran coach was willing to put up with the Saints management. So we get a hungry young guy who has shown he can run a top flight offense. I'll take it.
DONT EFFING RESIGN CARR (sorry Joe)
Doug B
Footballguy
… and it’s done — Saints currently about $640k under the cap. Details here.
EDIT: Check that — $1.1 million under.
EDIT2: Check that again — $13.2 million under.
EDIT3: $23.6 million under.
Was never in doubt
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Doug B
Footballguy
Welp. Carr has been 14-13 as a starter in New Orleans. Maybe Moore can put Carr and the rest of the offense in better positions to succeed
Statorama
Footballguy
There's certainly a better chance Moore is more of a QB whisperer than Dennis Allen wasWelp. Carr has been 14-13 as a starter in New Orleans. Maybe Moore can put Carr and the rest of the offense in better positions to succeed
Doug B
Footballguy
… and it’s done — Saints currently about $640k under the cap. Details here.
EDIT: Check that — $1.1 million under.
EDIT2: Check that again — $13.2 million under.
EDIT3: $23.6 million under.
Was never in doubt
A few more moves (both reductions and signings) ... Saints are $32.9 million under the cap right now. The team's "salary cap issues!" are famous, but overblown. The Brees void years have been digested, and it's now pretty much business-as-usual cap-wise.
EDIT: DE Chase Young's new 2025 cap hit was not factored in -- $27.3 million under.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
In order to create that cap space, they're already over the cap in 2026. They have ~$70m in voids alone. They can reduce those voids by continuing to kick the can and re-sign them, but > $60m of these guys are...… and it’s done — Saints currently about $640k under the cap. Details here.
EDIT: Check that — $1.1 million under.
EDIT2: Check that again — $13.2 million under.
EDIT3: $23.6 million under.
Was never in doubt
A few more moves (both reductions and signings) ... Saints are $32.9 million under the cap right now. The team's "salary cap issues!" are famous, but overblown. The Brees void years have been digested, and it's now pretty much business-as-usual cap-wise.
EDIT: DE Chase Young's new 2025 cap hit was not factored in -- $27.3 million under.
37 yo Demario Davis
37 yo Cameron Jordan
36 yo Taysom Hill
34 yo Tyrann Mathieu
32 yo Ryan Ramcyzk
They can create more space by converting bases to bonuses with...
31 yo Alvin Kamara
30 yo Carl Granderson
30 yo Juwan Johnson
29 yo Erik McCoy
27 yo Chase Young
27 yo Cesar Ruiz
This is why this team's salary cap issues are not over-blown, this roster is old and not good. They're off a 5-12 season, have pretty much the same team, and are boxed into it at least one more season too.
Doug B
Footballguy
As you note, the team accounts for the 2026 voids (at least in part) by extending other players, not any of those five (Ramczyk will retire after June 1). And not necessarily all of them off that list of six, either.
I've seen this show enough times to not concern myself with the team "already being over the cap!" for the following season. As long as cap money from two years in the future is accessible via void years, the bill never (really) comes due. The only reason the cap constricted the team somewhat in 2021-2023 is that the Saints' were having to absorb Brees' void years at the same time as the one-time-freak-event salary cap drop of 2021 took place.
MAC_32
Footballguy
The cap is still constricting the team. That's why it's deteriorated as much as it has. At least one more year to go too. While other teams are rolling over unused cap to make their future stronger, the can kicking in New Orleans further delays the return to being competitive as they're essentially operating with less capital.
Doug B
Footballguy
I think it's more been poor drafting in recent years, and some bad personnel decisions/player development (e.g. releasing LB Zack Baun because "he couldn't see the field over the starters").
I will say that to execute the Saints' cap strategy the most effectively, the team has to draft well and do so consistently. Also hit on good depth in the UDFA market as was consistently done during the Payton years.
EDIT: Also -- the Saints are not operating with less capital than other teams. This is because some portion of the higher cap two years in the future can always be accessed today. It's not "2026's cap" alone -- it's "2026 cap minus voids plus X% of the 2028 cap." In perpetuity, or at least until there are major changes in the CBA, revenue sharing, etc.
EDIT2: This SR.com post sensibly posits, further, that the Saints are clearing 2025 not for another splash free agent right now, but to carry over some portion of it into 2026:
So that changes the 2026 cap equation to:
"[2026 cap] minus [voids] plus [2025 carryover] plus [X% of the 2028 cap]."
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The bolded is a little untrue. The Saints were extremely banged up last season. Probably as many injures as anyone east of San Fran. The 5-12 is more a reflection of injures than talent. I mean, just for a quick example, they were 5-5 in games with Carr, and 0-7 in games with Rattler/Haener. They were also 2-6 in 1 score games.In order to create that cap space, they're already over the cap in 2026. They have ~$70m in voids alone. They can reduce those voids by continuing to kick the can and re-sign them, but > $60m of these guys are...… and it’s done — Saints currently about $640k under the cap. Details here.
EDIT: Check that — $1.1 million under.
EDIT2: Check that again — $13.2 million under.
EDIT3: $23.6 million under.
Was never in doubt
A few more moves (both reductions and signings) ... Saints are $32.9 million under the cap right now. The team's "salary cap issues!" are famous, but overblown. The Brees void years have been digested, and it's now pretty much business-as-usual cap-wise.
EDIT: DE Chase Young's new 2025 cap hit was not factored in -- $27.3 million under.
37 yo Demario Davis
37 yo Cameron Jordan
36 yo Taysom Hill
34 yo Tyrann Mathieu
32 yo Ryan Ramcyzk
They can create more space by converting bases to bonuses with...
31 yo Alvin Kamara
30 yo Carl Granderson
30 yo Juwan Johnson
29 yo Erik McCoy
27 yo Chase Young
27 yo Cesar Ruiz
This is why this team's salary cap issues are not over-blown, this roster is old and not good. They're off a 5-12 season, have pretty much the same team, and are boxed into it at least one more season too.
How many teams would survive their starting QB missing 7 games, especially when they were also down their top-2 WRs? They also got 7 games from their starting CBs, and 7 games from their best OL.
I don't disagree that they have some really bad contracts, with some older players, but with better health, and especially a (likely) better HC, I don't see 5 wins as an expectation at all, and I wouldn't be shocked if they made a run at winning the division, with the caveat that its the worst division in the NFL.
MAC_32
Footballguy
They were 25-26 the previous 3 seasons when those guys listed above had an average age starting with a 2, that # ain't a 2 anymore.
Yes they are. They were 23rd in spending last year, 27th in 2023, and 30th in 2022. This is what happens when you create a cap situation like this one - even if you have cash to spend, you aren't able to.
Doug B
Footballguy
I'd like to check this out for years further back in time, as well. The late Brees years. Where did you find spending per year per team? Spotrac or a site like that?
...
In other news, welcome back, Brandin Cooks! Two years, $13 million.
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Statorama
Footballguy
I just came in to post this!
It's a good story, but if I'm being honest MVS could have done the same things cheaper.
higgins
Footballguy
Doesn’t Cooks’ skillset overlap w/ Shaheed’s? Hhhhmmm
Doug B
Footballguy
Shaheed is a little taller -- and for my money, A LOT shiftier and more slippery in space. Cooks' game (to me) is straight-line speed.
At one time, I thought Shaheed could develop into an unconventional -- but successful -- X receiver for the Saints. Still wouldn't be shocked to see it happen. The way it looks now, though ... the Saints have two true Ys/#2s in Olave and Shaheed. Cooks will either be a solid #3, or step in across from Shaheed should Olave suffer another concussion (not talked about much, but Olave is on the bus with Tua regarding head injury risk).
Statorama
Footballguy
Okay Who Dat Nation - what are the feelings about Aaron Rodgers? I think he'd be at least as good as Carr, and if the cash was right he might do a one and done. IIRC he's pretty good in domes.
And for the record, I'm all for a full tank if it's building something for the future. I hate being in that 7ish win hell hole where you're just spinning your wheels.
I think Rodgers at least makes a playoff berth more plausible.
And for the record, I'm all for a full tank if it's building something for the future. I hate being in that 7ish win hell hole where you're just spinning your wheels.
I think Rodgers at least makes a playoff berth more plausible.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Do you think the Saints are in a better position to win than the Jets were? Rodgers is cooked.
EDIT: I could see the Saints getting the #1 pick. Arch Manning to the Saints would be a nice story with the Manning connection.
I think he's better then Carr but even if the Saints wanted him why would he choose them over the Steelers?
Its hard for me to see NO getting the #1 pick, they have a lot of good veteran talent, and a potentially good HC. They were winning the division last year until all of Carr/Shaheed/Olave got hurt. The NFC South is BY FAR the worst division in the NFL. I don't think it makes sense for any team in that division to "tank"
I think Carr is better than Rodgers, but the drop off there is A LOT smaller than the drop off from Rodgers to Rattler. I would argue the Saints are in a better position to win than the Jets were, simply because they aren't in a division with Buffalo, and I would argue the Saints are just a better run franchise than the Jets. I'd also take Kellen Moore over Robert Saleh/ Jeff Ulbrich.
The Saints are old, but have solid skill position talent, a good OL (when healthy, 3 of their 5 starters were gone by week 4) an ok DL, very good LBs, and one of the better Safety combos. They need QB, CB, and some youth on defense, but this is FAR from the least talented team in my opinion. I'd argue before the Carr injury I'd have had them 2nd in the division.
