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***Official Pro Wrestling Thread*** (6 Viewers)

The Ref said:
Lots of disrespect for The fabulous Moolah in here. She's in the hall for a reason fellas. No Moolah no Divas.
Click to expand...
This.

Mt Rushmore of Divas: Moolah, Sunny, Trish, Nakano*

*- Obligatory Japanese representative. Could also have gone Miss Elizabeth or Lita here.

 
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Brady Marino said:
The Ref said:
Lots of disrespect for The fabulous Moolah in here. She's in the hall for a reason fellas. No Moolah no Divas.
Click to expand...
This.

Mt Rushmore of Divas: Moolah, Sunny, Nakano, Trish.
Click to expand...
The disrespect is deserved, I'd argue long-term that Moolah did FAR more harm than good for women's wrestling. She basically single-handedly ruined women's wrestling for over a decade, and it really has never fully recovered at least not in the WWE because of her. No Moolah, and chances are women's wrestling is better than it is today.

Also, Moolah sorta predates the modern era though. I mean, when people were talking about the men's rushmore, nobody was talking about Sammartino or Buddy Rogers.

If we were talking women's wrestling overall, and not just WWE, I'd absolutely throw Nakano in there, she was awesome.

 
Smack Tripper said:
lot of ugly rumors about Moolah too
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I've heard them as well and I debated even including her, but you do have to wonder what women's wrestling would even be like nowadays without her. Maybe Liz goes there instead.

#### it, I'm convinced. Moolah's rumors are kind of icky, but you also can't deny what Liz added to Savage (and even Hogan) in the late 80s.

NEW Mount Rushmore of Divas: Liz, Sunny, Trish, Nakano.

 
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Brady Marino said:
Smack Tripper said:
lot of ugly rumors about Moolah too
Click to expand...
I've heard them as well and I debated even including her, but you do have to wonder what women's wrestling would even be like nowadays without her. Maybe Liz goes there instead.

#### it, I'm convinced. Moolah's rumors are kind of icky, but you also can't deny what Liz added to Savage (and even Hogan) in the late 80s.

NEW Mount Rushmore of Divas: Liz, Sunny, Trish, Nakano.
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Nope, Nakano gets bumped because I completely forgot someone.

Liz, Sunny, Trish, Sherri.

Yes, Scary Sherri. I hated her growing up, but I can appreciate her now that I'm older. She was a heat seeking missile that no other heel diva has EVER been able to follow. Steph is in the conversation, but she's no Sherri.

 
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Everyone wants New Day to turn heel, but I don't see how it really works. Yes, the goofy gospel choir gimmick doesn't really work for them as faces, but it's not an inherently bad guy trait either. Big E has the physique and wrestling style to be a classic brute heel (think a lesser version of Brock), but Kofi is as close to a pure babyface as anyone on the roster.

I'd rather see Big E turn on Kofi and Xavier and team with someone new (preferably a white guy as the whole black faction brought up too many uncomfortable memories of the race shtick early in the Attitude Era). This would transition to a natural feud with the two teams, give Big E some easy heat and also let Kofi and Xavier quietly drop the gospel shtick.

 
Moolah basically ran womens wrestling in America in the 70's and early 80's, almost doing that Andre the Giant circuit scedule. No promotion that I know of maintained a womens division so they'd bring in a couple of Moolah's girls or one to wrestle Moolah for the title (she created).

Inside of that structure, it is alleged in sending the girls out, Moolah, pimped the girls out and also took a huge cut of their wages while also charging them a healthy room and board.

More here, again, rumors so who knows?

http://forums.onlineworldofwrestling.com/forum/wrestling-promotions/kayfabe/10350-moolah-s-grip-on-american-women-s-wrestling

 
I once met Moolah and Mae Young in the Columbia, SC airport, waiting for the same flight about 15 years ago. They seemed nice and even though the conversation was short, it was pleasant. But I didn't ask her if she still pimped.

 
Apparently WWE showed zero interest in bringing in Kurt Angle:

http://rajah.com/node/46591

“It blew my mind,” he said. “It was as if I was a nobody, that I wasn’t Kurt Angle. From a wrestling standpoint, they just weren’t interested. But TNA not only stepped up, they gave me everything I wanted – the dates, the money, and it’s no secret that I’ve went to rehab in the past, and they gave me time off. You talk about a company that’s loyal to you, and you want to be loyal back. So I didn’t pursue the WWE any further. When it comes down to it, you’ve got to stick with the people who want to take care of you. And [TNA president] Dixie Carter took care of me.

“But I’m going to be straight with you,” said Angle. “The WWE would have made more money this year if they would have signed me. That’s no secret.”

I just find it stunning they wouldn't even MEET with him while bringing back Sting and RVD types. (I realize Sting is more of a merch thing probably than anything else) The guy would have a lot to offer them as a part time guy (or even trainer down the road). The guy could run circles around any trainer they have down their presently.

I just don't understand how WWE could have 2 guys leading the training operations (past/present) in Bill DeMott and Albert that weren't great workers, couldn't cut promos, and were never over.in their company. I'm sure it's a thankless day-in day-out job paying peanuts, but I'm sure they can do better

 
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Craig_MiamiFL said:
Apparently WWE showed zero interest in bringing in Kurt Angle:

http://rajah.com/node/46591

“It blew my mind,” he said. “It was as if I was a nobody, that I wasn’t Kurt Angle. From a wrestling standpoint, they just weren’t interested. But TNA not only stepped up, they gave me everything I wanted – the dates, the money, and it’s no secret that I’ve went to rehab in the past, and they gave me time off. You talk about a company that’s loyal to you, and you want to be loyal back. So I didn’t pursue the WWE any further. When it comes down to it, you’ve got to stick with the people who want to take care of you. And [TNA president] Dixie Carter took care of me.

“But I’m going to be straight with you,” said Angle. “The WWE would have made more money this year if they would have signed me. That’s no secret.”

I just find it stunning they wouldn't even MEET with him while bringing back Sting and RVD types. (I realize Sting is more of a merch thing probably than anything else) The guy would have a lot to offer them as a part time guy (or even trainer down the road). The guy could run circles around any trainer they have down their presently.

I just don't understand how WWE could have 2 guys leading the training operations (past/present) in Bill DeMott and Albert that weren't great workers, couldn't cut promos, and were never over.in their company. I'm sure it's a thankless day-in day-out job paying peanuts, but I'm sure they can do better
Click to expand...
Bill DeMott has been training wrestlers since WCW's Power Plant. He may not have had a big run in the ring, but he was always someone they put guys against for enhancement. That's the main reason half of Goldberg's matches were against him.

 
travdogg said:
Brady Marino said:
The Ref said:
Lots of disrespect for The fabulous Moolah in here. She's in the hall for a reason fellas. No Moolah no Divas.
Click to expand...
This.

Mt Rushmore of Divas: Moolah, Sunny, Nakano, Trish.
Click to expand...
The disrespect is deserved, I'd argue long-term that Moolah did FAR more harm than good for women's wrestling. She basically single-handedly ruined women's wrestling for over a decade, and it really has never fully recovered at least not in the WWE because of her. No Moolah, and chances are women's wrestling is better than it is today.

Also, Moolah sorta predates the modern era though. I mean, when people were talking about the men's rushmore, nobody was talking about Sammartino or Buddy Rogers.

If we were talking women's wrestling overall, and not just WWE, I'd absolutely throw Nakano in there, she was awesome.
Click to expand...
Please find out about Chigusa Nagayo, Manami Toyota, or a dozen other AJW stars before you chisel in Nakano.

 
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My Divas Rushmore probably took "spank factor" way to much into account. But Moolah still wouldn't be on it. Mae Young would be on it before Moolah. She gave birth to a hand for the WWE. Moolah can't top that.

 
Craig_MiamiFL said:
Apparently WWE showed zero interest in bringing in Kurt Angle:

http://rajah.com/node/46591

“It blew my mind,” he said. “It was as if I was a nobody, that I wasn’t Kurt Angle. From a wrestling standpoint, they just weren’t interested. But TNA not only stepped up, they gave me everything I wanted – the dates, the money, and it’s no secret that I’ve went to rehab in the past, and they gave me time off. You talk about a company that’s loyal to you, and you want to be loyal back. So I didn’t pursue the WWE any further. When it comes down to it, you’ve got to stick with the people who want to take care of you. And [TNA president] Dixie Carter took care of me.

“But I’m going to be straight with you,” said Angle. “The WWE would have made more money this year if they would have signed me. That’s no secret.”

I just find it stunning they wouldn't even MEET with him while bringing back Sting and RVD types. (I realize Sting is more of a merch thing probably than anything else) The guy would have a lot to offer them as a part time guy (or even trainer down the road). The guy could run circles around any trainer they have down their presently.

I just don't understand how WWE could have 2 guys leading the training operations (past/present) in Bill DeMott and Albert that weren't great workers, couldn't cut promos, and were never over.in their company. I'm sure it's a thankless day-in day-out job paying peanuts, but I'm sure they can do better
Click to expand...
I think this has much more to do with Angle's longstanding neck issues. I've heard the WWE just doesn't want to take any chances of him being seriously injured in their ring.

 
Some interesting booking in the Trios tournament in Lucha Underground so far.

Tonight, the romantic, dysfunctional team of Son of Havoc, Ivilese and Angelico took on Fenix and the rivals Drago and Aerostar. People tagging in each other hard and unexpectedly, taking spots from each other, etc.

Ivilese has to put up with her ex-BF for another week as they win and earn their shot in the Trios championship match.

:lol:
 
I don't really consider any WWE female prior to Sunny a Diva as she was the first to be referred as one. You can make a case for Elizabeth, but in my mind, she's strictly a Valet/Manager. I also don't consider Moolah or Madusa (FU I won't call her Alundra) Divas. They are women's wrestlers, although I'm sure you can also argue them both - Moolah along with Mae Young during the Attitude Era *shudders* and Madusa during that same period in WCW.

 
SlaX said:
I don't really consider any WWE female prior to Sunny a Diva as she was the first to be referred as one. You can make a case for Elizabeth, but in my mind, she's strictly a Valet/Manager. I also don't consider Moolah or Madusa (FU I won't call her Alundra) Divas. They are women's wrestlers, although I'm sure you can also argue them both - Moolah along with Mae Young during the Attitude Era *shudders* and Madusa during that same period in WCW.
Click to expand...
It would be nice if they would drop the "Diva" name altogether which would give the division a lot more credibility. I know there is 0% chance of this happening, however, for obvious branding issues.

 
OC Zed said:
SlaX said:
I don't really consider any WWE female prior to Sunny a Diva as she was the first to be referred as one. You can make a case for Elizabeth, but in my mind, she's strictly a Valet/Manager. I also don't consider Moolah or Madusa (FU I won't call her Alundra) Divas. They are women's wrestlers, although I'm sure you can also argue them both - Moolah along with Mae Young during the Attitude Era *shudders* and Madusa during that same period in WCW.
Click to expand...
It would be nice if they would drop the "Diva" name altogether which would give the division a lot more credibility. I know there is 0% chance of this happening, however, for obvious branding issues.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Although if they're gonna push the Divas onto us, they may as well bring the Women's Championship back and let them have a championship for those who can wrestle vs the ones that just look pretty.

 
RBM said:
Can't ####in believe there has been this many serious posts about women's wrestling.
Click to expand...
Yeah I just don't think there even is a 'Mount Rushmore' of women's wrestling.

It was pretty good during the Trish-Lita era, but has been piss break (for me anyway) during every other era.

 
Tom Servo said:
Craig_MiamiFL said:
RBM said:
Can't ####in believe there has been this many serious posts about women's wrestling.
Click to expand...
Yeah I just don't think there even is a 'Mount Rushmore' of women's wrestling.It was pretty good during the Trish-Lita era, but has been piss break (for me anyway) during every other era.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's hard to take it seriously when the WWE treats it like a T&A sideshow.
Click to expand...
I'm confused by this. I think it was more of a T&A sideshow during the Trish/Lita days then it is now. I mean, its not like we are having bra and panties matches, or mud wrestling, or lingerie pillow fights in 2015.

Trish/Lita is remembered fondly, but in all honestly, Sasha/Charlotte easily blows that out of the water in match quality.

I really don't know why they can't have NXT quality women's matches on the main roster. It isn't really even a question of who is involved, Paige/Natalya was an amazing match on NXT, that was better than anything either of them have ever done on the main roster.

 
travdogg said:
Tom Servo said:
Craig_MiamiFL said:
RBM said:
Can't ####in believe there has been this many serious posts about women's wrestling.
Click to expand...
Yeah I just don't think there even is a 'Mount Rushmore' of women's wrestling.It was pretty good during the Trish-Lita era, but has been piss break (for me anyway) during every other era.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's hard to take it seriously when the WWE treats it like a T&A sideshow.
Click to expand...
I'm confused by this. I think it was more of a T&A sideshow during the Trish/Lita days then it is now. I mean, its not like we are having bra and panties matches, or mud wrestling, or lingerie pillow fights in 2015.

Trish/Lita is remembered fondly, but in all honestly, Sasha/Charlotte easily blows that out of the water in match quality.

I really don't know why they can't have NXT quality women's matches on the main roster. It isn't really even a question of who is involved, Paige/Natalya was an amazing match on NXT, that was better than anything either of them have ever done on the main roster.
Click to expand...
The problem is that Trish, Lita, etc. could at least wrestle. With the exception of AJ, IMO, the current crop of girls isn't worth the powder to blow them all to hell. It's just terrible wrestling.

If I want to watch at least decent women's wrestling, I have to go to Lucha Underground...and even then, half the time they're wrestling guys.

 
Tom Servo said:
travdogg said:
Tom Servo said:
Craig_MiamiFL said:
RBM said:
Can't ####in believe there has been this many serious posts about women's wrestling.
Click to expand...
Yeah I just don't think there even is a 'Mount Rushmore' of women's wrestling.It was pretty good during the Trish-Lita era, but has been piss break (for me anyway) during every other era.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's hard to take it seriously when the WWE treats it like a T&A sideshow.
Click to expand...
I'm confused by this. I think it was more of a T&A sideshow during the Trish/Lita days then it is now. I mean, its not like we are having bra and panties matches, or mud wrestling, or lingerie pillow fights in 2015.

Trish/Lita is remembered fondly, but in all honestly, Sasha/Charlotte easily blows that out of the water in match quality.

I really don't know why they can't have NXT quality women's matches on the main roster. It isn't really even a question of who is involved, Paige/Natalya was an amazing match on NXT, that was better than anything either of them have ever done on the main roster.
Click to expand...
The problem is that Trish, Lita, etc. could at least wrestle. With the exception of AJ, IMO, the current crop of girls isn't worth the powder to blow them all to hell. It's just terrible wrestling.

If I want to watch at least decent women's wrestling, I have to go to Lucha Underground...and even then, half the time they're wrestling guys.
Click to expand...
I guess we just completely disagree on that. There are certainly some women(and men to be fair) who are just awful at wrestling, but that has always been the case. Let's not pretend Torrie Wilson or Stacy Kiebler had any wrestling skill whatsoever. Sure, Trish and Lita could go, and personally I thought Victoria and Molly Holly were even better than them(though obviously not as popular) but there was a lot of garbage matches then too.

I believe there are at least 10 women on the roster(counting NXT) who are all capable of having good to great wrestling matches, the problem is booking, not ability.

Sasha Banks, never has a bad match

Paige, had some excellent matches on NXT

Nikki Bella, who was secretly awesome when they split her and Brie up, they should have never reunited them, they both get lazy when together

Natalya, likewise had some excellent matches on NXT

Emma , who they really screwed up when they paired her with Santino)

Charlotte, who could easily end up being historically great

Brie Bella, not as good as Nikki, but also, was excellent when they were apart.

Becky Lynch, great chain wrestler/submission expert, also a suplex machine

Bayley, does an amazing job with body language during matches

Alexa Bliss, does a 450 splash that rivals anyone short of Neville/Rollins.

Any combination of those 10, if given time and not ending in distraction rollups, is going to be at least decent, and possibly great. In fact, Sasha/Paige is probably the #2 match I'd want to see out of anybody in the company right now, trailing only Rollins/Zayn.

 
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Trouble is, Vince is never going to give them the time to develop a quality program. After all, he's gotta give Cena his 30 minutes, all the commercials for the latest movie tie in, blowing the WWE Universe, etc.

Plus, with casual (non-network viewers - most fans) fans, nobody knows who these chicks are. Oh, the smarts do, but not the ordinary fans. To get those casual fans to know and care about these gals will take more work than Vince wants to put into it.

 
travdogg said:
Tom Servo said:
Craig_MiamiFL said:
RBM said:
Can't ####in believe there has been this many serious posts about women's wrestling.
Click to expand...
Yeah I just don't think there even is a 'Mount Rushmore' of women's wrestling.It was pretty good during the Trish-Lita era, but has been piss break (for me anyway) during every other era.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's hard to take it seriously when the WWE treats it like a T&A sideshow.
Click to expand...
I'm confused by this. I think it was more of a T&A sideshow during the Trish/Lita days then it is now. I mean, its not like we are having bra and panties matches, or mud wrestling, or lingerie pillow fights in 2015.

Trish/Lita is remembered fondly, but in all honestly, Sasha/Charlotte easily blows that out of the water in match quality.

I really don't know why they can't have NXT quality women's matches on the main roster. It isn't really even a question of who is involved, Paige/Natalya was an amazing match on NXT, that was better than anything either of them have ever done on the main roster.
Click to expand...
Because the WWE "style" does not favor great technical matches in general. This applies to the men just as much as it does the women.

ETA: I'm not saying this is a good thing... it's a Vince thing.

 
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Tom Servo said:
Trouble is, Vince is never going to give them the time to develop a quality program. After all, he's gotta give Cena his 30 minutes, all the commercials for the latest movie tie in, blowing the WWE Universe, etc.

Plus, with casual (non-network viewers - most fans) fans, nobody knows who these chicks are. Oh, the smarts do, but not the ordinary fans. To get those casual fans to know and care about these gals will take more work than Vince wants to put into it.
Click to expand...
FWIW, I fast forward through every DIVA match

 
Tiger Fan said:
Tom Servo said:
Trouble is, Vince is never going to give them the time to develop a quality program. After all, he's gotta give Cena his 30 minutes, all the commercials for the latest movie tie in, blowing the WWE Universe, etc.

Plus, with casual (non-network viewers - most fans) fans, nobody knows who these chicks are. Oh, the smarts do, but not the ordinary fans. To get those casual fans to know and care about these gals will take more work than Vince wants to put into it.
Click to expand...
FWIW, I fast forward through every DIVA match
Click to expand...
Do you watch the NXT women's matches?

 
NXT the other night was the tourney before Mania, at the WM Axcess thing. All 3 matches were such clear examples of why I love NXT. Itami-Neville, Balor-Breeze and Itami-Balor. All 3 were works of art. All 4 guys are such huge talents. I was so impressed with Itami for the first time really. Unfortunately because of their size, they are going to have a hard time breaking the top of the WWE. I do think Balor will be the one to make the main event scene. His charisma is impossible to ignore.

I really wish they gave NXT the two hours Smackdown gets, and it was treated as its own promotion and not just a developmental system. I'd send like 7-8 guys that are talented but being wasted on the main roster there. Like Bo Dallas, Big E, Axel, Swagger. Those types to fill out the card.

 
OC Zed said:
Tiger Fan said:
Tom Servo said:
Trouble is, Vince is never going to give them the time to develop a quality program. After all, he's gotta give Cena his 30 minutes, all the commercials for the latest movie tie in, blowing the WWE Universe, etc.

Plus, with casual (non-network viewers - most fans) fans, nobody knows who these chicks are. Oh, the smarts do, but not the ordinary fans. To get those casual fans to know and care about these gals will take more work than Vince wants to put into it.
Click to expand...
FWIW, I fast forward through every DIVA match
Click to expand...
Do you watch the NXT women's matches?
Click to expand...
Nope, but I don't watch NXT either. Just don't have the time.

I guess I'm a tad bit different in that I'm probably more interested in the storylines, strategy, entertainment and booking behind it all more than the actual wrestling matches themselves. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate a good match here and there, but I can't watch match after match with nothing else.

 
RBM said:
NXT the other night was the tourney before Mania, at the WM Axcess thing. All 3 matches were such clear examples of why I love NXT. Itami-Neville, Balor-Breeze and Itami-Balor. All 3 were works of art. All 4 guys are such huge talents. I was so impressed with Itami for the first time really. Unfortunately because of their size, they are going to have a hard time breaking the top of the WWE. I do think Balor will be the one to make the main event scene. His charisma is impossible to ignore.

I really wish they gave NXT the two hours Smackdown gets, and it was treated as its own promotion and not just a developmental system. I'd send like 7-8 guys that are talented but being wasted on the main roster there. Like Bo Dallas, Big E, Axel, Swagger. Those types to fill out the card.
Click to expand...
I feel like if they put NXT on a national network, Vince would force it to be booked like the main card with WWE style matches. You won't get what you're getting now. But I would like to see them bump NXT to 2 hours on the network.

 
SlaX said:
RBM said:
NXT the other night was the tourney before Mania, at the WM Axcess thing. All 3 matches were such clear examples of why I love NXT. Itami-Neville, Balor-Breeze and Itami-Balor. All 3 were works of art. All 4 guys are such huge talents. I was so impressed with Itami for the first time really. Unfortunately because of their size, they are going to have a hard time breaking the top of the WWE. I do think Balor will be the one to make the main event scene. His charisma is impossible to ignore.

I really wish they gave NXT the two hours Smackdown gets, and it was treated as its own promotion and not just a developmental system. I'd send like 7-8 guys that are talented but being wasted on the main roster there. Like Bo Dallas, Big E, Axel, Swagger. Those types to fill out the card.
Click to expand...
I feel like if they put NXT on a national network, Vince would force it to be booked like the main card with WWE style matches. You won't get what you're getting now. But I would like to see them bump NXT to 2 hours on the network.
Click to expand...
ECW was supposed to return as an online promotion that Shane/Heyman would have run. Instead, Vince got Sci-Fi to take it on and it got bastardized.

For all his success, Vince really does #### a lot of #### up.

 
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