***Official Pro Wrestling Thread*** (5 Viewers)

[Trey]

i hope they bring back Val Venis for the storyline at least

 

[RBM]

Nakamura makes perfect sense on NXT, and I don't see him moving up to the main roster anytime soon. With the WWE Network now available in Japan, what makes more sense than putting Nakamura on NXT every week.

The line to the main roster starts behind Balor, and then some combo of Zayn, Corbin, Enzo and Big Cass, Apollo Crews and a returning Hideo Itami.

That said, he could be on RAW the Monday after WM.

Nakamura, at 35 years of age, didn't sign to spend a whole lot of time in NXT. He'll be there long enough to get acclimated to the WWE style of things and then he'll go up, a la Owens.

This. If you think he has to get in line behind a bunch of bingo hall warriors, you obviously haven't seen him wrestle.

Wrestling ability ain't that important to Vince.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Nakamura makes perfect sense on NXT, and I don't see him moving up to the main roster anytime soon. With the WWE Network now available in Japan, what makes more sense than putting Nakamura on NXT every week.

The line to the main roster starts behind Balor, and then some combo of Zayn, Corbin, Enzo and Big Cass, Apollo Crews and a returning Hideo Itami.

That said, he could be on RAW the Monday after WM.

Nakamura, at 35 years of age, didn't sign to spend a whole lot of time in NXT. He'll be there long enough to get acclimated to the WWE style of things and then he'll go up, a la Owens.

This. If you think he has to get in line behind a bunch of bingo hall warriors, you obviously haven't seen him wrestle.

Wrestling ability ain't that important to Vince.

but charisma is. Vince has a bunch of fitness models who couldn't get into movies on the roster for the most part.

Nakamura will connect with crowds

 

[Tom Servo]

Nakamura makes perfect sense on NXT, and I don't see him moving up to the main roster anytime soon. With the WWE Network now available in Japan, what makes more sense than putting Nakamura on NXT every week.

The line to the main roster starts behind Balor, and then some combo of Zayn, Corbin, Enzo and Big Cass, Apollo Crews and a returning Hideo Itami.

That said, he could be on RAW the Monday after WM.

Nakamura, at 35 years of age, didn't sign to spend a whole lot of time in NXT. He'll be there long enough to get acclimated to the WWE style of things and then he'll go up, a la Owens.

This. If you think he has to get in line behind a bunch of bingo hall warriors, you obviously haven't seen him wrestle.

Wrestling ability ain't that important to Vince.

But he does love spectacle and show. Nakamura brings that.

 

[Bogart]

I haven't watch much Nakamura, enough to get how great he is, but how would you compare his run in New Japan to Kenta's run? Injuries aside, it seemed like Kenta was going to be in NXT for more than a cup of coffee.

 

[Tom Servo]

Bret Hart states on his FB page that he has prostate cancer and will have surgery this week.

Put cancer in the Sharpshooter, Bret!

 

[Tom Servo]

His statement:

It is with great remorse that I feel compelled to speak truthfully to my friends, family and my millions of fans around the world. In the past few years, I’ve spent more than enough time paying the price for all those years trying to be the best there ever was as a professional wrestler. I executed excellently and my proudest claim was that I never seriously hurt or injured another wrestler in my 23 year career. I’ve paid a price for all that “fake” wrestling. Aside from a devastating career-ending concussion and numerous surgeries when I was younger, in recent years I’ve had two knee replacements, two hernia operations, surgery on my right elbow, and, just a few months ago, I underwent a four-corner fusion of my right wrist that even now makes it most difficult to write or type.

Mark Helprin wrote: “We are all perfect clocks that Divinity has set to ticking when, even before birth, the heart explodes into a lifelong dance.” I’ve had a great lifelong dance and I’m a survivor of many hard battles. I now face my toughest battle. With hesitation and fear, I openly declare myself in my fight against prostate cancer. In the next few days, I will undergo surgery with the hope of defeating this nemesis once and for all.


My fans have always looked upon me as a hero and I’ve always done my best to live up to that in and out of the ring. I beat the odds when I suffered my stroke in 2002, but it is now yet again, that I draw upon the many adults and young children I’ve met throughout my life who courageously fought and usually lost in their battles against this deadly disease. One year ago, I watched a brave young man named Whesley fight brain cancer to the end. If I can find even an ounce of his courage to stand unafraid and face the tough road ahead of me, I will march toward this destiny with his spirit chanting in my ear.


I make a solemn vow to all of those that once believed in me, the dead and the living, that I will wage my fearsome fight against cancer with one shield and one sword carrying my determination and my fury for life, emboldened by all the love that’s kept me going this long already. Love is my weapon and I’ve got much of it around me all the time, for which I’m truly blessed and eternally grateful. My children, grandchildren, and my loving wife Steph have been and will constantly be at my side. I refuse to lose, I will never give in or give up, and I will win this battle or die trying.

Most important of all, I hope I can take the fight to prostate cancer. To be a leader in awareness and to set the example for men everywhere who find themselves in my very same shoes, that prostate cancer can be beaten.

 

[Brady Marino]

I haven't watch much Nakamura, enough to get how great he is, but how would you compare his run in New Japan to Kenta's run? Injuries aside, it seemed like Kenta was going to be in NXT for more than a cup of coffee.

For one, KENTA (it's in all caps over there) was in Pro Wrestling NOAH. But, he also was considered a top, top guy like Shinsuke. There's a few differences between the two. For instance, many have said Shinsuke is slowing down a bit (his back is not in the best of shape and he hurt his shoulder during G1). Shinsuke is also taller than KENTA and does far less top-rope stuff, but both are considered "strong style" wrestlers, with Shinsuke earning the "King of Strong Style" moniker in Japan.

KENTA did have a memorable run in RoH a few years back. Here are a couple examples:

KENTA vs Nigel McGuinness

KENTA vs Low Ki

KENTA, Zayn, and Owens vs the former Kassius Ohno in NXT and the American Wolves

 

[travdogg]

Bret Hart states on his FB page that he has prostate cancer and will have surgery this week.

Put cancer in the Sharpshooter, Bret!

Hope everything goes well for him. Bret Hart was my favorite wrestler as a kid, and in my opinion was the greatest role model wrestling(at least WWE anyway) has ever had. In fact, I was such such a Hart fan, that I was recently helping clean out my parents garage and came across a vocabulary test from the 2nd grade, in which I spelled the word heart wrong, because I saw it so often without the 'E' in it.

 

[Tom Servo]

Sasha Banks took a beatdown. Wut?

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Below rumored Mania match has the potential to be absolutely brutal. But there's no way they put Taker over Stroman is there?

* The Undertaker vs. Braun Stroman


Then again, people thought Taker/Kane going over Wyatts at Survivor Series because it's "25 years of Taker" was a good decision. When people say #### like that, I wonder if they're actually working in the WWE. Such ### backwards thinking. You put over the Wyatts BECAUSE IT'S 25 YEARS OF TAKER!!!!

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

The Sunny porn is out. If you're into that sort of stuff.

Prince Puma/Ricochet reportedly may not be back for Season 3 of Lucha. Not surprisingly, WWE is interested in him.

 

[RBM]

at Stroman having a singles match at mania.

Taker-Giant Gonzalez II

 

[Tom Servo]

Prince Puma/Ricochet reportedly may not be back for Season 3 of Lucha. Not surprisingly, WWE is interested in him.

He'd be an improvement over Sin Botcha

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Ryyyyyyyy......berg. Guess he's finally embraced it. New ring gear this week on Smackdown. Likely nothing, but interesting timing.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BBTjschS36_/?taken-by=thebigguyryback22

 

[JB Breakfast Club]

Below rumored Mania match has the potential to be absolutely brutal. But there's no way they put Taker over Stroman is there?

* The Undertaker vs. Braun Stroman


Then again, people thought Taker/Kane going over Wyatts at Survivor Series because it's "25 years of Taker" was a good decision. When people say #### like that, I wonder if they're actually working in the WWE. Such ### backwards thinking. You put over the Wyatts BECAUSE IT'S 25 YEARS OF TAKER!!!!

This rumor stuff is so annoying. How about just letting the stuff get actually booked, and then comment on it?

 

[Smack Tripper]

Below rumored Mania match has the potential to be absolutely brutal. But there's no way they put Taker over Stroman is there?



* The Undertaker vs. Braun Stroman

Then again, people thought Taker/Kane going over Wyatts at Survivor Series because it's "25 years of Taker" was a good decision. When people say #### like that, I wonder if they're actually working in the WWE. Such ### backwards thinking. You put over the Wyatts BECAUSE IT'S 25 YEARS OF TAKER!!!!

This rumor stuff is so annoying. How about just letting the stuff get actually booked, and then comment on it?

Honestly, I think THEY throw the rumors out there to gauge things.

I know this doesn't unilaterally work but if online folks were enthusiastic about it they might run with it.

Biggest issue is THESE PEOPLE CANT WRITE.

WRITE AN ANGLE.

You entire roster gets decimated by injury and they're worried about tmz clicks. SOMEONE should get the rub from john cena missing wrestlemania.

They're in such a weird mix of fiction and nonfiction and 100 percent emphasis the virtue of both In an inverse manner to the most diminished effect it's insane.

You want Stroman to wrestle taker? SAY... Don't even show... Just maybe PRETEND Stroman destroyed cesaro and Orton to further brays cause. Heat the guy up.

Instead he looks like Eugene on a barrell of steroids and he's supposed to be over despite saying or doing anything?

Jim ross made a good point on a recent podcast. He said they never even give you a height and weight on Stroman. There is nothing inspire awe.

 

[Tom Servo]

Below rumored Mania match has the potential to be absolutely brutal. But there's no way they put Taker over Stroman is there?

* The Undertaker vs. Braun Stroman


Then again, people thought Taker/Kane going over Wyatts at Survivor Series because it's "25 years of Taker" was a good decision. When people say #### like that, I wonder if they're actually working in the WWE. Such ### backwards thinking. You put over the Wyatts BECAUSE IT'S 25 YEARS OF TAKER!!!!

This rumor stuff is so annoying. How about just letting the stuff get actually booked, and then comment on it?

Speculation on my part, but I think this is some insecurity at Titan Towers. For as much as they say they loathe the IWC - and the dirt sheets before that - they now have an ability to float trial balloons to see what will fly and what may suck. This may be because they don't have people the caliber/experience of a Jim Ross/Jim Cornette/Kevin Sullivan that know the business and know how to book. Triple H does OK with NXT based on what you guys tell me, but I think on a larger level he may feel out of his depth...plus having Vinnie Mac looking over his shoulder.

Again, just my and worth exactly what you paid for it.

 

[Tom Servo]

First off, I found out Catrina blocked me on twitter.

I watched LU last night and they did a good job of setting up Darewolf PJ Black and the chick that debuts next week. The only thing that was curious was

Spoiler

they ended up jobbing Black out to the Mack.

The Marty the Moth/Sexy Star segment was legitimately creepy to the point of being uncomfortable. Kudos to them for that.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Just watched Lucha (tagged as well it in case others havent still watched):

Spoiler

Another great opening. How refreshing is it not to open a show with an IN RING PROMO. I can't recall the last time a Raw didn't open with the same old same old freaking in ring promo

I value in ring work less than most, but a terrific opener with Mundo/Killshot. Obviously Cage is on something, but guy looks like a star.

Looks like PJ Black/Justin Gabriel now in Lucha. Was surprised they did the promo and then he lost. Can't complain with them going against the obvious debut win.

Love the last segment with Mysterio. Hook to make you want to tune in next week. Love they do these segments at top and bottom of every show.

I really need to watch the last half+ of Season 1 of Lucha sometime.

Damn another wrestler gone too early. Was just watching a shoot interview of him and Raven on Youtube a few weeks back.

Axl Rotten, real name Brian Knighton, was found deceased today at the age of 44 in Baltimore, Maryland. According to PWInsider, he was found by authorities in a motel.

WWE issued the following statement on his passing on Thursday evening:

WWE is saddened to learn of reports that Brian Knighton, best known for competing in ECW as Axl Rotten from 1993 to 1999, has passed away. WWE extends its condolences to Knighton’s family, friends and fans.

Rotten suffered from a spine injury in recent years that forced him out of the ring. He was living in Anchorage Rehab Center in Salisbury, Maryland.

 

[Tom Servo]

Wow...Axl Rotten passed away. oursout40:

 

[Tom Servo]

Craig -

I agree with you on how LU's been opening and closing their shows. You can't automatically flip channels once the credits run. I think the fact that Rodriquez is behind the show makes these so effective. Since he does movies, he has a sense of what will hook an audience and keep them hooked. The other thing I like is that stuff that happens "backstage" or out of the ring is not always known by Stryker and Vampiro, so there's the shock value from them of seeing stuff take place.

Just curious, what do you value as far as a wrestler is concerned? I'm legitimately interested.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Just curious, what do you value as far as a wrestler is concerned? I'm legitimately interested.

The wrestlers themselves: ability to connect with the audience would encompass what I enjoy as a viewer (mic skills, charisma, ability to make the viewer actually believe what they're saying once in a blue moon ...........& in ring ability). You won't see me #### on a workers wrestling ability. I know what they do isn't easy. I'm not watching the show to see 5-star matches to begin with. I treat wrestling as Lucha produces it. A television show that has wrestling. Not a wrestling show that's on TV.

99% of what's wrong in WWE right now is bad material (few storylines/no follow up to anything they do/cold matches with no reason to care) and an over saturated product. Not something I blame the wrestlers for. The creative just sucks. Lucha just did a less than 30 second Mysterio clip that left me wanting more Lucha next week than a 3+ hour Raw did -- did as I'm no longer wasting 3 hours of my life every week on that -- any week in the past 5+ years. That 30 second segment gave me a reason to care about Mysterio more than anything he's done in probably close to a decade (?) ago when he did a program with Eddie Guerrero.

I can't stand when I hear the excuse WWE can't produce good content due to being kid friendly/publicly traded/etc...etc..etc... Was there anything at all on that Lucha show last night a kid couldnt watch? (I don't make a habit to see what a shows rated when it starts) I've been watching a lot of the old Attitude shows......same thing. Most of those shows a kid could watch. Are there segments in which would need omitted/toned down? Of course. The writing was just far better. Viewer was given a reason to care about EVERY character through storylines.

And you?

 

[Tom Servo]

I've always been drawn to the heel characters - they have a tough job which is to make the face look good. They have to carry more than their fair share of the emotional weight; they give the face something to rise up against, a reason to fight, a reason to keep going. If you have a bad heel, your face cannot rise to meet him in a story that works with the audience. That audience that ranges from kids (and some adults ) who think it's real to the smarts like us who are willing to suspend disbelief in order to be entertained. I was in a match at the House of Pain training center where I was a face manager. The heel manager who walked me through the match before hand said, "Relax and let me be the (penis)." When it came time for me to threaten to punch him, I got one of the biggest pops of the night as people bought in that I was actually going to slug noted villain Dylan Dean. My wife was more upset that I yelled that I was going to kick his ###.

Going along with that, the heels have to have some kind of charisma or ability to get a rise out of the crowd. For me, Ric Flair is the GOAT in this department; he walked it and he literally lived it. You don't have to be the Rock verbally; heck, Chris Jericho and his 3-handled credenza promo in WCW is one of my all-time favorites. Adrian Adonis did a great job of that too, merging his androgynous character with dastardly deeds and Jimmy Hart to get himself over.

If you have a good heel stable, they can insert themselves in multiple storylines and create havoc for anyone at anytime, especially if they're controlling all the promotion's belts, like the Four Horsemen or (more recently) the Bullet Club in NJPW.

Matchups have to be believable. Having Rey Mysterio as world champion was a horrible idea because he's the smallest guy on the roster. In what world would a 150 pound guy win any wrestling match against someone twice his size? Only in the fantasy land of the WWE, that's where. That's why the recent Mil Muertes-Ivanesse match sucked so hard; there was no way she's winning. Pair up guys/gals with different styles, whatever, but don't insult my intelligence with 150 pound people against guys over 3 bills.

 

[JB Breakfast Club]

Gave Smackdown a shot last night...2 hours is such a breath of fresh air compared to the monstrosity of 3+ hour RAW. I might make it my weekly WWE show since it covers the main stories from RAW while presenting tighter content...probably make the switch after Mania. A few notes:

• New announcer guy is really solid. He's got a little bit of a sportscastery voice, but he really stays focused on the action and progresses stories.
• The main stars are working the show now. This episode had two Roman/Ambrose segments, Kalisto/Owens/Ziggler, New Day, and AJ Styles featured.
• Guaranteed kid-friendly. Language is all cleaned up since it's pre-recorded.
• It's still the secondary show, though. No Brock Lesnar live moments.

 

[Bogart]

Caught up on the last few episodes of NXT last night. I couldn't help but notice how dead the crowd was. Not popping at all. And then they mentioned it specifically on Straight Shoot. Got to wonder what the deal was. I know they tape several episodes at one time, and maybe they just had a bad crowd, but as good as the action is on the show, it falls flat in front of a quiet room.

The silence during Balor/Crews was especially disturbing. May be time to look for a new bingo hall.

 

[Keith R]

Gave Smackdown a shot last night...2 hours is such a breath of fresh air compared to the monstrosity of 3+ hour RAW. I might make it my weekly WWE show since it covers the main stories from RAW while presenting tighter content...probably make the switch after Mania. A few notes:

• New announcer guy is really solid. He's got a little bit of a sportscastery voice, but he really stays focused on the action and progresses stories.
• The main stars are working the show now. This episode had two Roman/Ambrose segments, Kalisto/Owens/Ziggler, New Day, and AJ Styles featured.
• Guaranteed kid-friendly. Language is all cleaned up since it's pre-recorded.
• It's still the secondary show, though. No Brock Lesnar live moments.

The new Smackdown announcer is Mauro Ranollo, the lead guy for Showtime's boxing telecasts. I haven't seen too much SmackDown lately but when I have, I really like what he does. His voice alone brings gravitas to the proceedings.

 

[Jeremy]

I think talent means more than people give it credit for. Creative is obviously very important, but it's the stars that make it work or not work. It's like a coach in football. He gets much of the credit and blame, but it's the players he has to work with that are 90% of success or failure.

If you back to the beginning of the Undertaker character, it was cheesy as hell. We were literally supposed to believe he was undead. But Mark Calloway made it the best gimmick in wrestling history. Dusty Rhodes was put in polka dots and he made it work. Steve Austin started his WWE run as the awful Ring Master. The New Day was set to crash and burn, but they turned it around. By contrast, the best wrestling minds on the planet can't make Ryback interesting.

I've always been drawn to the heel characters - they have a tough job which is to make the face look good. They have to carry more than their fair share of the emotional weight; they give the face something to rise up against, a reason to fight, a reason to keep going. If you have a bad heel, your face cannot rise to meet him in a story that works with the audience.

Being a heel these days seems so difficult. Many of today's wrestling fans are drawn to the bad guys. Kevin Owens has created the most hateable character in years, plays that character on social media and in public, and he still gets cheered by many because he was an internet darling before his WWE days. There's literally nothing he could do to make say...20-25%? of the crowd hate him. So I agree...tough job.

 

[Keith R]

I think talent means more than people give it credit for. Creative is obviously very important, but it's the stars that make it work or not work. It's like a coach in football. He gets much of the credit and blame, but it's the players he has to work with that are 90% of success or failure.

If you back to the beginning of the Undertaker character, it was cheesy as hell. We were literally supposed to believe he was undead. But Mark Calloway made it the best gimmick in wrestling history. Dusty Rhodes was put in polka dots and he made it work. Steve Austin started his WWE run as the awful Ring Master. The New Day was set to crash and burn, but they turned it around. By contrast, the best wrestling minds on the planet can't make Ryback interesting.

I've always been drawn to the heel characters - they have a tough job which is to make the face look good. They have to carry more than their fair share of the emotional weight; they give the face something to rise up against, a reason to fight, a reason to keep going. If you have a bad heel, your face cannot rise to meet him in a story that works with the audience.

Being a heel these days seems so difficult. Many of today's wrestling fans are drawn to the bad guys. Kevin Owens has created the most hateable character in years, plays that character on social media and in public, and he still gets cheered by many because he was an internet darling before his WWE days. There's literally nothing he could do to make say...20-25%? of the crowd hate him. So I agree...tough job.

Indie cred = face heat, whether desired or not.

By that rationale, the guy who should be WWE's biggest heel is The Miz. He was at one time and is very hateable, but would no longer be credible at the top of the card. He never really was, even when he was winning the main event at WM.

Of course, another way to get and keep heel heat is to be overpushed (Honky Tonk Man template), so you never know...

 

[Smack Tripper]

I think talent means more than people give it credit for. Creative is obviously very important, but it's the stars that make it work or not work. It's like a coach in football. He gets much of the credit and blame, but it's the players he has to work with that are 90% of success or failure.

If you back to the beginning of the Undertaker character, it was cheesy as hell. We were literally supposed to believe he was undead. But Mark Calloway made it the best gimmick in wrestling history. Dusty Rhodes was put in polka dots and he made it work. Steve Austin started his WWE run as the awful Ring Master. The New Day was set to crash and burn, but they turned it around. By contrast, the best wrestling minds on the planet can't make Ryback interesting.

I've always been drawn to the heel characters - they have a tough job which is to make the face look good. They have to carry more than their fair share of the emotional weight; they give the face something to rise up against, a reason to fight, a reason to keep going. If you have a bad heel, your face cannot rise to meet him in a story that works with the audience.

Being a heel these days seems so difficult. Many of today's wrestling fans are drawn to the bad guys. Kevin Owens has created the most hateable character in years, plays that character on social media and in public, and he still gets cheered by many because he was an internet darling before his WWE days. There's literally nothing he could do to make say...20-25%? of the crowd hate him. So I agree...tough job.

To be fair though, those guys broke through in a time when there was no writing team. Wrestlers did their own, improv, in a sense. In so doing, they had a wealth and breadth of just knowing their characters and the booking enhanced who they were and what they were about.

Even in taker's case, it took him a long time to talk and he needed a mouthpiece and less promo work was more with him. One "rest in peace" got over.

Now, these kids today, you couldn't even throw them to the wolves because have no clue what the hell they're doing and no real development outside of classroom work to experiment.

Its just some twisted self hatred that Vince hires writers who weren't good enough for reality TV or the CW network and lets them have authority and say over his performers.

Since these kids don't seem to be huge fans of wrestling, maybe take the whole roster to "The Revenant". Watched that last night. You talk about selling? Never do you doubt for a minute in this that the guy was injured. And that physicality made it very compelling

 

[SlaX]

I don't know why I was thinking about this today, but I wanted to find a clip of Hulk Hogan choking out Richard Belzer and I'll share it here too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7n_SHrK408

Here is accompanied story for those of you not familiar with the situation:

link

THE NIGHT HULK HOGAN KNOCKED RICHARD BELZER OUT COLD

Back around 1985, the Lifetime Network, which had not yet branded itself as a channel dedicated to angsty women’s dramas, decided to dedicate an hour a week to a prime-time talk show called Hot Properties, featuring as its host a standup comedian named Richard Belzer. Of course it was many years before Belzer would cement his identity as the ubiquitous Detective John Munch, and anyone who’s seen his live act knows that Belzer, whatever his gifts and flaws, was not your typical standup comedian. His New York City edge, his rapid patter, his Reagan impersonation (which he used incessantly), and his affinity for conspiracy theories made him something like a cut-rate George Carlin for the cable TV era.

In effect, Hot Properties was a version of Late Night with David Letterman, except with no audience to speak of. The most interesting thing about it, really, was that it ran at 8pm on Wednesdays—the edge that Belzer brought to the proceedings seemed entirely out of place on the prime-time lineup. I tuned in whenever I could, but the show didn’t last very long. Detailed TV listings from the mid-1980s are hard to come by, but according to the Retrojunk website, the guest on September 18, 1985, was Quentin Crisp—pretty interesting guest! I can’t say for sure, but I think the show may have broadcast live. Anybody know?

There’s virtually no information out there about Hot Properties, but I cherished it (briefly) as an offbeat source of interesting programming. Insofar as the show is remembered at all, it’s for an incident that happened on the telecast of March 27, 1985.

Belzer’s guests that night, there to promote the first-ever Wrestlemania on March 31 of the same year, were Mr. T and Hulk Hogan. After a few minutes Belzer asked Hogan to show him a few wrestling moves; Hogan put Belzer in a kind of awkward headlock and Belzer fell to the floor; he had apparently passed out. The two crazy things about the footage are that just before Hogan tries his move, Belzer actually falls to the floor on purpose, as a joke, the idea being that the merest movement from Hogan would be enough to make a pencil-necked New Yorker like Belzer faint dead away. The other thing that’s weird is that after blacking out for perhaps five seconds, Belzer immediately bounds up and, quite full of energy, offers up a fairly professional bumper to the commercial. On the show a week later, Belzer would explain, quite plausibly, that he was in shock at the time.

Belzer ended up getting nine stitches. Belzer sued Hogan and the World Wrestling Federation (as it was then known), and the parties eventually settled out of court. There were rumors that Belzer received $5 million, but in a 2008 interview on Howard Stern he said that the number was a lot closer to $400,000.

In March 2012, I attended a birthday party for Jerry Lewis at the Friars’ Club in New York. Belzer, who’s close to Lewis, served as the MC. As I was leaving the party I happened to find myself walking next to Belzer—I took a moment to tell him how much I’d liked Hot Properties back in the day—certainly a fan testimonial he doesn’t hear every day. Belzer had hardly been listening but that got his attention; his head whipped around and he said something like “Boy, you remember that, huh?”

 

[Tom Servo]

I think talent means more than people give it credit for. Creative is obviously very important, but it's the stars that make it work or not work. It's like a coach in football. He gets much of the credit and blame, but it's the players he has to work with that are 90% of success or failure.

If you back to the beginning of the Undertaker character, it was cheesy as hell. We were literally supposed to believe he was undead. But Mark Calloway made it the best gimmick in wrestling history. Dusty Rhodes was put in polka dots and he made it work. Steve Austin started his WWE run as the awful Ring Master. The New Day was set to crash and burn, but they turned it around. By contrast, the best wrestling minds on the planet can't make Ryback interesting.

I've always been drawn to the heel characters - they have a tough job which is to make the face look good. They have to carry more than their fair share of the emotional weight; they give the face something to rise up against, a reason to fight, a reason to keep going. If you have a bad heel, your face cannot rise to meet him in a story that works with the audience.

Being a heel these days seems so difficult. Many of today's wrestling fans are drawn to the bad guys. Kevin Owens has created the most hateable character in years, plays that character on social media and in public, and he still gets cheered by many because he was an internet darling before his WWE days. There's literally nothing he could do to make say...20-25%? of the crowd hate him. So I agree...tough job.

To be fair though, those guys broke through in a time when there was no writing team. Wrestlers did their own, improv, in a sense. In so doing, they had a wealth and breadth of just knowing their characters and the booking enhanced who they were and what they were about.

Even in taker's case, it took him a long time to talk and he needed a mouthpiece and less promo work was more with him. One "rest in peace" got over.

Now, these kids today, you couldn't even throw them to the wolves because have no clue what the hell they're doing and no real development outside of classroom work to experiment.

Its just some twisted self hatred that Vince hires writers who weren't good enough for reality TV or the CW network and lets them have authority and say over his performers.

Since these kids don't seem to be huge fans of wrestling, maybe take the whole roster to "The Revenant". Watched that last night. You talk about selling? Never do you doubt for a minute in this that the guy was injured. And that physicality made it very compelling

All you have to do is look at Dusty's "eating beans/dining with kings and queens" promo and you just KNOW that it couldn't have come from a script writer. That came from Dusty himself, based on how he lived and grew up. Even though I was not a fan of Dusty per se, I could respect the gimmick as the old chestnut goes, the best ones are an extension of your personality.

This is also why Ed Ferrera and Vince Russo can go drive into a fire -- hopefully in the same car. They wrote reality TV and have not a lick of wrestling sense or intelligence. Who the bleep writes a segment making fun of Jim Ross' bells palsy? I mean, WTF? That's out of bounds as far as I'm concerned. They weren't funny; heck, they weren't even as edgy as they thought. Give me Cornette/Ross/Dusty/Sullivan doing my TV and I guarantee I will whip your butt in ratings with lesser talent.

 

[SlaX]

I doubt you'll win the ratings battle, but it'll be more entertaining.

 

[Thunderlips]

I think talent means more than people give it credit for. Creative is obviously very important, but it's the stars that make it work or not work. It's like a coach in football. He gets much of the credit and blame, but it's the players he has to work with that are 90% of success or failure.

If you back to the beginning of the Undertaker character, it was cheesy as hell. We were literally supposed to believe he was undead. But Mark Calloway made it the best gimmick in wrestling history. Dusty Rhodes was put in polka dots and he made it work. Steve Austin started his WWE run as the awful Ring Master. The New Day was set to crash and burn, but they turned it around. By contrast, the best wrestling minds on the planet can't make Ryback interesting.

I've always been drawn to the heel characters - they have a tough job which is to make the face look good. They have to carry more than their fair share of the emotional weight; they give the face something to rise up against, a reason to fight, a reason to keep going. If you have a bad heel, your face cannot rise to meet him in a story that works with the audience.

Being a heel these days seems so difficult. Many of today's wrestling fans are drawn to the bad guys. Kevin Owens has created the most hateable character in years, plays that character on social media and in public, and he still gets cheered by many because he was an internet darling before his WWE days. There's literally nothing he could do to make say...20-25%? of the crowd hate him. So I agree...tough job.

Indie cred = face heat, whether desired or not.

By that rationale, the guy who should be WWE's biggest heel is The Miz. He was at one time and is very hateable, but would no longer be credible at the top of the card. He never really was, even when he was winning the main event at WM.

Of course, another way to get and keep heel heat is to be overpushed (Honky Tonk Man template), so you never know...

Why not with The Miz?

I got back into wrestling after a 12+ year absence (2001 - 2013) . My friends who continued with it hate the guy.....but I see a guy who's good on the mike, is a decent technical wrestler and who can make the crowd both laugh at him and boo him. You give him a couple of more irritating quirks.....and he'd be gold as a heel.

 

[Keith R]

I think talent means more than people give it credit for. Creative is obviously very important, but it's the stars that make it work or not work. It's like a coach in football. He gets much of the credit and blame, but it's the players he has to work with that are 90% of success or failure.

If you back to the beginning of the Undertaker character, it was cheesy as hell. We were literally supposed to believe he was undead. But Mark Calloway made it the best gimmick in wrestling history. Dusty Rhodes was put in polka dots and he made it work. Steve Austin started his WWE run as the awful Ring Master. The New Day was set to crash and burn, but they turned it around. By contrast, the best wrestling minds on the planet can't make Ryback interesting.

I've always been drawn to the heel characters - they have a tough job which is to make the face look good. They have to carry more than their fair share of the emotional weight; they give the face something to rise up against, a reason to fight, a reason to keep going. If you have a bad heel, your face cannot rise to meet him in a story that works with the audience.

Being a heel these days seems so difficult. Many of today's wrestling fans are drawn to the bad guys. Kevin Owens has created the most hateable character in years, plays that character on social media and in public, and he still gets cheered by many because he was an internet darling before his WWE days. There's literally nothing he could do to make say...20-25%? of the crowd hate him. So I agree...tough job.

Indie cred = face heat, whether desired or not.

By that rationale, the guy who should be WWE's biggest heel is The Miz. He was at one time and is very hateable, but would no longer be credible at the top of the card. He never really was, even when he was winning the main event at WM.

Of course, another way to get and keep heel heat is to be overpushed (Honky Tonk Man template), so you never know...

Why not with The Miz?

I got back into wrestling after a 12+ year absence (2001 - 2013) . My friends who continued with it hate the guy.....but I see a guy who's good on the mike, is a decent technical wrestler and who can make the crowd both laugh at him and boo him. You give him a couple of more irritating quirks.....and he'd be gold as a heel.

I think his cred has taken too much of a hit now, between overexposure and jobbing to lower-card types.

Sadly, I think he was pushed too far too soon. He's gotten better in the ring than he was when he was WWE Champ. If he hadn't been overexposed, he could be a great top-of-the-card heel now and wouldn't have to lean on the Authority to generate heat.

 

[JB Breakfast Club]

Caught up on the last few episodes of NXT last night. I couldn't help but notice how dead the crowd was. Not popping at all. And then they mentioned it specifically on Straight Shoot. Got to wonder what the deal was. I know they tape several episodes at one time, and maybe they just had a bad crowd, but as good as the action is on the show, it falls flat in front of a quiet room.

The silence during Balor/Crews was especially disturbing. May be time to look for a new bingo hall.

I think I'm going with the theory that @MatthewTimmons brought up...Balor is too overpowered, so there isn't really anything for him to overcome anymore. He's dominated since day 1, and now nobody in NXT is in his league.

It is really interesting to watch the IWC continue to complain that Roman Reigns (and Cena before his injury) is being pushed too hard while embracing Finn Balor.

Since last Wrestemania (where Reigns ATE THE PIN in the main event), Roman's PPV history:

Extreme Rules: WIN over Big Show (last man standing)

Payback: LOSS (but not pinned) in the 4 way match with Rollins, Ambrose, and Orton

Elimination Chamber: not booked

Money in the Bank: LOSS in the briefcase match

Battleground: LOSS to Bray Wyatt

SummerSlam: WIN in tag match with Ambrose vs Wyatt/Harper

Night of Champions: LOSS (but not pinned) in six man tag with Ambrose/Jericho vs Wyatt Family

Hell in a Cell: WIN vs Bray Wyatt (HiaC match)

Survivor Series: WIN/LOSS - wins the title tournament and loses belt to Sheamus

TLC: LOSS to Sheamus

2016 Royal Rumble: LOSS to HHH

Finn Balor's Takeover history:

R Evolution: WIN in tag match with Hideo Itami vs Ascension

Rival: WIN finals of #1 contender tournament vs Neville

Unstoppable: WIN #1 contender match vs Tyler Breeze

Brooklyn: WIN NXT Title from Kevin Owens (ladder match - Balor won the belt before this)

Respect: WIN Dusty Rhodes tag team tournament with Samoa Joe

London: WIN vs Samoa Joe

 

[RBM]

I think talent means more than people give it credit for. Creative is obviously very important, but it's the stars that make it work or not work. It's like a coach in football. He gets much of the credit and blame, but it's the players he has to work with that are 90% of success or failure.

If you back to the beginning of the Undertaker character, it was cheesy as hell. We were literally supposed to believe he was undead. But Mark Calloway made it the best gimmick in wrestling history. Dusty Rhodes was put in polka dots and he made it work. Steve Austin started his WWE run as the awful Ring Master. The New Day was set to crash and burn, but they turned it around. By contrast, the best wrestling minds on the planet can't make Ryback interesting.

I've always been drawn to the heel characters - they have a tough job which is to make the face look good. They have to carry more than their fair share of the emotional weight; they give the face something to rise up against, a reason to fight, a reason to keep going. If you have a bad heel, your face cannot rise to meet him in a story that works with the audience.

Being a heel these days seems so difficult. Many of today's wrestling fans are drawn to the bad guys. Kevin Owens has created the most hateable character in years, plays that character on social media and in public, and he still gets cheered by many because he was an internet darling before his WWE days. There's literally nothing he could do to make say...20-25%? of the crowd hate him. So I agree...tough job.

Indie cred = face heat, whether desired or not.By that rationale, the guy who should be WWE's biggest heel is The Miz. He was at one time and is very hateable, but would no longer be credible at the top of the card. He never really was, even when he was winning the main event at WM.

Of course, another way to get and keep heel heat is to be overpushed (Honky Tonk Man template), so you never know...

Why not with The Miz?

I got back into wrestling after a 12+ year absence (2001 - 2013) . My friends who continued with it hate the guy.....but I see a guy who's good on the mike, is a decent technical wrestler and who can make the crowd both laugh at him and boo him. You give him a couple of more irritating quirks.....and he'd be gold as a heel.

Cody Rhodes could be a great top of the card heel. Just have to get the Stardust stench off him.

 

[Brady Marino]

I've always been drawn to the heel characters - they have a tough job which is to make the face look good. They have to carry more than their fair share of the emotional weight; they give the face something to rise up against, a reason to fight, a reason to keep going. If you have a bad heel, your face cannot rise to meet him in a story that works with the audience. That audience that ranges from kids (and some adults ) who think it's real to the smarts like us who are willing to suspend disbelief in order to be entertained. I was in a match at the House of Pain training center where I was a face manager. The heel manager who walked me through the match before hand said, "Relax and let me be the (penis)." When it came time for me to threaten to punch him, I got one of the biggest pops of the night as people bought in that I was actually going to slug noted villain Dylan Dean. My wife was more upset that I yelled that I was going to kick his ###.

Going along with that, the heels have to have some kind of charisma or ability to get a rise out of the crowd. For me, Ric Flair is the GOAT in this department; he walked it and he literally lived it. You don't have to be the Rock verbally; heck, Chris Jericho and his 3-handled credenza promo in WCW is one of my all-time favorites. Adrian Adonis did a great job of that too, merging his androgynous character with dastardly deeds and Jimmy Hart to get himself over.

If you have a good heel stable, they can insert themselves in multiple storylines and create havoc for anyone at anytime, especially if they're controlling all the promotion's belts, like the Four Horsemen or (more recently) the Bullet Club in NJPW.

Matchups have to be believable. Having Rey Mysterio as world champion was a horrible idea because he's the smallest guy on the roster. In what world would a 150 pound guy win any wrestling match against someone twice his size? Only in the fantasy land of the WWE, that's where. That's why the recent Mil Muertes-Ivanesse match sucked so hard; there was no way she's winning. Pair up guys/gals with different styles, whatever, but don't insult my intelligence with 150 pound people against guys over 3 bills.

Very good points all around.I used to think that 5-star matches were the only barometer of success, but I think that is a cliche that is beat to death on the Indies. Try watching a PWG show for instance. I respect what they do because they bust their ### and really have a loyal following, and a lot of that IS their ability to connect with the fans. But I find PWG shows in general to be exhausting because its ridiculous spot after ridiculous spot and I'm worn out before the main event event comes (and not in a good way).

Yes, if you are a good worker, I will probably like you. But if you can tell a story, either in the ring or on the mic, then you have it made. It's a big reason why I still enjoy late 80s/early 90s WWF. It wasn't the best era for workrate, but the stories they told were simply great and captivating. Attitude Era had a bit of that until it got old.

 

[travdogg]

Caught up on the last few episodes of NXT last night. I couldn't help but notice how dead the crowd was. Not popping at all. And then they mentioned it specifically on Straight Shoot. Got to wonder what the deal was. I know they tape several episodes at one time, and maybe they just had a bad crowd, but as good as the action is on the show, it falls flat in front of a quiet room.

The silence during Balor/Crews was especially disturbing. May be time to look for a new bingo hall.

I think I'm going with the theory that @MatthewTimmons brought up...Balor is too overpowered, so there isn't really anything for him to overcome anymore. He's dominated since day 1, and now nobody in NXT is in his league.

It is really interesting to watch the IWC continue to complain that Roman Reigns (and Cena before his injury) is being pushed too hard while embracing Finn Balor.

I think the issue I have with Reigns and Cena and is less about them winning, and more about nothing they do ever mattering. Reigns cut a promo about how the title was his life, he lost it, and he's still the same, smirking at the camera and acting like nothing effects him. Its awful, I dislike him, because he comes across as the least sincere character on the show, which is a huge issue for a face, especially a main event one.

Cena has the same problem, only he's had it for 10+ years. No matter what happens to him, he never changes in any way. The difference is that Cena is a much better wrestler than Reigns, so he gets a little less flack for it. That is why the US open challenge was great, because it featured Cena the wrestler, who is great, and not Cena the character, who is awful. I mean, I may be alone in this, but Cena hasn't had a good feud since what, Punk in 2011? Wyatt, Rusev and Owens all came out of their feuds with Cena a lot worse of then when they went in, because the formula is beat Cena, then lose 2-3 times so the win is irrelevant. If that didn't happen and Cena lost a feud(like he did with Punk) I think he'd be much more well liked by adults.

Balor on the other hand, has been pretty unbeatable, but he hasn't beaten Sami Zayn yet. He also hasn't been "shoved down people's throats" so to speak. I agree that the drama in most of his matches isn't the greatest because of how successful he's been, but that is really the only similarity he has to Reigns or Cena. I think it also helps Balor, that he isn't positioned against an authority figure, that storyline should have been retired years ago. Other than Bryan and Punk, I'm not sure that storyline has helped anyone since Austin. That is 2 guys in what, 15 years?

 

[Bogart]

Bull Dempsey gone from NXT. Not surprised, but kind of a bummer. He was the perfect jobber with a funny gimmick and actually got a reaction out of that dead Full Sail crowd.

Hopefully he has a full dance card at the Indies going forward.

 

[Brady Marino]

Bull Dempsey gone from NXT. Not surprised, but kind of a bummer. He was the perfect jobber with a funny gimmick and actually got a reaction out of that dead Full Sail crowd.

Hopefully he has a full dance card at the Indies going forward.

Sarcasm?

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

I think talent means more than people give it credit for. Creative is obviously very important, but it's the stars that make it work or not work. It's like a coach in football. He gets much of the credit and blame, but it's the players he has to work with that are 90% of success or failure.

If you back to the beginning of the Undertaker character, it was cheesy as hell. We were literally supposed to believe he was undead. But Mark Calloway made it the best gimmick in wrestling history. Dusty Rhodes was put in polka dots and he made it work. Steve Austin started his WWE run as the awful Ring Master. The New Day was set to crash and burn, but they turned it around. By contrast, the best wrestling minds on the planet can't make Ryback interesting.

I've always been drawn to the heel characters - they have a tough job which is to make the face look good. They have to carry more than their fair share of the emotional weight; they give the face something to rise up against, a reason to fight, a reason to keep going. If you have a bad heel, your face cannot rise to meet him in a story that works with the audience.

Being a heel these days seems so difficult. Many of today's wrestling fans are drawn to the bad guys. Kevin Owens has created the most hateable character in years, plays that character on social media and in public, and he still gets cheered by many because he was an internet darling before his WWE days. There's literally nothing he could do to make say...20-25%? of the crowd hate him. So I agree...tough job.

Indie cred = face heat, whether desired or not.By that rationale, the guy who should be WWE's biggest heel is The Miz. He was at one time and is very hateable, but would no longer be credible at the top of the card. He never really was, even when he was winning the main event at WM.

Of course, another way to get and keep heel heat is to be overpushed (Honky Tonk Man template), so you never know...

Why not with The Miz?

I got back into wrestling after a 12+ year absence (2001 - 2013) . My friends who continued with it hate the guy.....but I see a guy who's good on the mike, is a decent technical wrestler and who can make the crowd both laugh at him and boo him. You give him a couple of more irritating quirks.....and he'd be gold as a heel.

Cody Rhodes could be a great top of the card heel. Just have to get the Stardust stench off him.

I was a big fan of his "Dashing" gimmick. I agree there was a point in his career where I thought he'd be a top heel. I think he had another gimmick that wasnt too bad (can't recall off top of my head)

They may have ruined his chances of that beyond repair at this point. Definitely needs to lose the Stardust thing. They've made him a total jobber.

 

[KiddLattimer]

Watching the Smackdown replay on Hulu... the crowd noise they dub in is ridiculous. Ryback getting pop like CM Punk just walked in the door. I guess that's the advantage of pre-recording.

 

[Jeremy]

Bull Dempsey gone from NXT. Not surprised, but kind of a bummer. He was the perfect jobber with a funny gimmick and actually got a reaction out of that dead Full Sail crowd.

Hopefully he has a full dance card at the Indies going forward.

He got a nice reaction in Green Bay when he came to the ring in a cheesehead hat and did some jumping jacks. That said, I doubt anybody bought a ticket to see him wrestle.

 

[Jeremy]

I doubt you'll win the ratings battle, but it'll be more entertaining.

I think this is an important point. I think fans sometimes lose sight of the fact that it's a business. While the IWC may love a guy, it doesn't mean he makes money. While every wrestling purist fawned over Flair and Dusty back in the day in the letters sections of those magazines (the internet of that era), it was Hogan and mostly cartoon characters the masses came to see. My 6 tear old neighbor who's never without his John Cena hat and wrist bands has no idea what a Lucha Underground is, and probably never will.

 

[Tom Servo]

I doubt you'll win the ratings battle, but it'll be more entertaining.

I think this is an important point. I think fans sometimes lose sight of the fact that it's a business. While the IWC may love a guy, it doesn't mean he makes money. While every wrestling purist fawned over Flair and Dusty back in the day in the letters sections of those magazines (the internet of that era), it was Hogan and mostly cartoon characters the masses came to see. My 6 tear old neighbor who's never without his John Cena hat and wrist bands has no idea what a Lucha Underground is, and probably never will.

And, you know what? That's OK. That same kid isn't watching NJPW, ROH or even Chakara. That doesn't mean that there can't be different types of promotions for different types of fans. I mean, you wouldn't take a kid to see an art film and an movie connoisseur is not necessarily going to watch Minions of his own accord. Different promotions tap into different facets of the wrestling market.

The indies serve a great need for coming to smaller towns that WWE will never come to, bring you wrestling at an affordable price, and is great for interacting with the local talent. One of the great things about hanging around NWL/House of Pain was getting to know these guys on a personal level. They know that this is their hobby and do it for the love of the game, so to speak. To hear them talk about their jobs, girlfriends, whatnot was just as exciting as the matches themselves. Heck, my buddies and I had wrestlers that were fans of us (as we had as a gimmick a "fan stable" - Phat Boyz 3000).

Point is, I believe there's enough room in the wrestling business for everyone to make money. Vince will make his mountain of cash that he can stage dive into from the top of Titan Towers, and **** Caricofe will make enough money to keep providing cheap entertainment to make the wrestling fans of PA/MD/WV/VA happy.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

I think talent means more than people give it credit for. Creative is obviously very important, but it's the stars that make it work or not work. It's like a coach in football. He gets much of the credit and blame, but it's the players he has to work with that are 90% of success or failure.

If you back to the beginning of the Undertaker character, it was cheesy as hell. We were literally supposed to believe he was undead. But Mark Calloway made it the best gimmick in wrestling history. Dusty Rhodes was put in polka dots and he made it work. Steve Austin started his WWE run as the awful Ring Master. The New Day was set to crash and burn, but they turned it around. By contrast, the best wrestling minds on the planet can't make Ryback interesting.

I've always been drawn to the heel characters - they have a tough job which is to make the face look good. They have to carry more than their fair share of the emotional weight; they give the face something to rise up against, a reason to fight, a reason to keep going. If you have a bad heel, your face cannot rise to meet him in a story that works with the audience.

Being a heel these days seems so difficult. Many of today's wrestling fans are drawn to the bad guys. Kevin Owens has created the most hateable character in years, plays that character on social media and in public, and he still gets cheered by many because he was an internet darling before his WWE days. There's literally nothing he could do to make say...20-25%? of the crowd hate him. So I agree...tough job.

To be fair though, those guys broke through in a time when there was no writing team. Wrestlers did their own, improv, in a sense. In so doing, they had a wealth and breadth of just knowing their characters and the booking enhanced who they were and what they were about.

Even in taker's case, it took him a long time to talk and he needed a mouthpiece and less promo work was more with him. One "rest in peace" got over.

Now, these kids today, you couldn't even throw them to the wolves because have no clue what the hell they're doing and no real development outside of classroom work to experiment.

Its just some twisted self hatred that Vince hires writers who weren't good enough for reality TV or the CW network and lets them have authority and say over his performers.

Since these kids don't seem to be huge fans of wrestling, maybe take the whole roster to "The Revenant". Watched that last night. You talk about selling? Never do you doubt for a minute in this that the guy was injured. And that physicality made it very compelling

This is also why Ed Ferrera and Vince Russo can go drive into a fire -- hopefully in the same car. They wrote reality TV and have not a lick of wrestling sense or intelligence. Who the bleep writes a segment making fun of Jim Ross' bells palsy? I mean, WTF? That's out of bounds as far as I'm concerned. They weren't funny; heck, they weren't even as edgy as they thought. Give me Cornette/Ross/Dusty/Sullivan doing my TV and I guarantee I will whip your butt in ratings with lesser talent.

We differ a lot with Russo/Ferrera. I think at least Russo (and IMO both) belongs in the HOF. W/o that writing (and I don't care how great the performers were), WWE never approaches the heights it did. To me, the writing of the Rock's heel turn up to and at the Survivor Series 1998 was the best in the history of wrestling. And he did write his fair share of bad stuff (JR mockery is one of them). He's owned up to that and has apologized many times to JR.. Russo's podcast is the only wrestling related one I listen to daily/every week anymore. Far and away IMO the best out there. All video podcasts. Does cost $4.95/month (or $3.95 when promotion is ongoing). Well worth it.

Cornettte is STILL stuck 20+ years in the past with his Southern rasslin style of thinking. It didn't sell in the early/mid 90s in Memphis, didn't sell in the WWE in the mid 90s (and WWE ditched him), and doesn't now. Go read his thoughts on Lucha Underground and you'll see what a delusional blowhard he is now. He was a great manager and a meh booker. And to me that's the extent of it. His most enjoyable stuff was probably some of his shoot interviews. He's just become a bitter old man hat hasn't evolved like the rest of the world. He's become nothing more than a 50-something old troll. I used to enjoy his shoot interviews but he's simply become someone that says outrageous bull#### ......for the sake of saying outrageous bull#### to get a reaction. Cornette isn't a writer. Never has or will be. He's a booker. (Scripts the matches) If you want a PURE WRESTLING / 5 star match promotion.....Cornette is your guy.

I've always been and always will be a fan of WRITERS (like Russo/Ferrera and Chris DeJoseph of Lucha) than I will be wrestling personality BOOKERS like a Cornette. All these guys know is wrestling. (I'm not knocking that at all.......they're an asset to a company in the right role). The upside isn't there with simply JUST a booking team....limiting yourself to a straight wrestling promotion.

 

[Tom Servo]

^^ I'll agree with you on a lot of this, but I'll graciously agree to disagree on Russo/Ferrera. Cornette seems like a real bitter man; for someone who knows the rasslin business modus operandi is to screw the next guy, he seems to forget that a lot. Now, I like listening to him when he talks wrestling history, such as when he and SCSA were discussing Sputnik Monroe and his integration of the Memphis coliseum crowd. That video was truly fascinating stuff. I think he thinks more highly of himself that he ought, but that's a normal human flaw.

It would be nice if guys who write for TV now would lean on people who know wrestling (I'm speaking generally, not referring to anyone specifically). What I think sets WWE back is that they throw all these things against the wall because they sound good, but no one is particularly interested in following up, maintaining continuity, etc. I live with Sheamus-Orton part 60 if they wrote it like an honest-to-goodness feud and not like what I deal with when my teenage boys are fighting with each other...essentially a bunch of one-off fights that resolve nothing and settle nothing . Granted, you didn't see Flair-Rhodes wrestling weekly on TV, but they were either trashing each other, interfering in each other's matches, jumping each other, etc.

Having watched LU since the beginning, I now understand your last paragraph. There's great writing that reels you in and keeps you hooked week after week. Story lines aren't rushed; these guys are playing a long game here rather than trying to sell the next PPV. Plus, having Melissa Santos doesn't hurt.

 

[Jeremy]

I doubt you'll win the ratings battle, but it'll be more entertaining.

I think this is an important point. I think fans sometimes lose sight of the fact that it's a business. While the IWC may love a guy, it doesn't mean he makes money. While every wrestling purist fawned over Flair and Dusty back in the day in the letters sections of those magazines (the internet of that era), it was Hogan and mostly cartoon characters the masses came to see. My 6 tear old neighbor who's never without his John Cena hat and wrist bands has no idea what a Lucha Underground is, and probably never will.

And, you know what? That's OK. That same kid isn't watching NJPW, ROH or even Chakara. That doesn't mean that there can't be different types of promotions for different types of fans. I mean, you wouldn't take a kid to see an art film and an movie connoisseur is not necessarily going to watch Minions of his own accord. Different promotions tap into different facets of the wrestling market.

The indies serve a great need for coming to smaller towns that WWE will never come to, bring you wrestling at an affordable price, and is great for interacting with the local talent. One of the great things about hanging around NWL/House of Pain was getting to know these guys on a personal level. They know that this is their hobby and do it for the love of the game, so to speak. To hear them talk about their jobs, girlfriends, whatnot was just as exciting as the matches themselves. Heck, my buddies and I had wrestlers that were fans of us (as we had as a gimmick a "fan stable" - Phat Boyz 3000).

Point is, I believe there's enough room in the wrestling business for everyone to make money. Vince will make his mountain of cash that he can stage dive into from the top of Titan Towers, and **** Caricofe will make enough money to keep providing cheap entertainment to make the wrestling fans of PA/MD/WV/VA happy.

Yeah, I agree with all of that. The thing is, many fans want the WWE to conform to their own preferences, even though the kind of performers they like don't make money. It's the equivalent of wanting your favorite indy band to play in the Super Bowl because they're better musicians than the ones they actually pick. Maybe they are, but they aren't going to keep fans from turning the channel at halftime.

The WWE is struggling to get ratings currently, but all those promotions that cater to the hardcore fan eventually go extinct, or are seemingly always on the brink. Every sport needs to cater to the casual fan first and foremost. The hardcore fans will always be there, despite their empty threats to cancel their subscriptions. Like it or not, the ladies come to see Roman Reigns. The kids come to see John Cena. The smarks come to see Kevin Owens or AJ Styles. The meatheads come to see Ryback. Jerry Lawler comes to see the divas.

I think the WWE is struggling to find a way to be all things to all people, at the same time navigating through a ton of injuries.

 

[Smack Tripper]

I think talent means more than people give it credit for. Creative is obviously very important, but it's the stars that make it work or not work. It's like a coach in football. He gets much of the credit and blame, but it's the players he has to work with that are 90% of success or failure.

If you back to the beginning of the Undertaker character, it was cheesy as hell. We were literally supposed to believe he was undead. But Mark Calloway made it the best gimmick in wrestling history. Dusty Rhodes was put in polka dots and he made it work. Steve Austin started his WWE run as the awful Ring Master. The New Day was set to crash and burn, but they turned it around. By contrast, the best wrestling minds on the planet can't make Ryback interesting.

I've always been drawn to the heel characters - they have a tough job which is to make the face look good. They have to carry more than their fair share of the emotional weight; they give the face something to rise up against, a reason to fight, a reason to keep going. If you have a bad heel, your face cannot rise to meet him in a story that works with the audience.

Being a heel these days seems so difficult. Many of today's wrestling fans are drawn to the bad guys. Kevin Owens has created the most hateable character in years, plays that character on social media and in public, and he still gets cheered by many because he was an internet darling before his WWE days. There's literally nothing he could do to make say...20-25%? of the crowd hate him. So I agree...tough job.

To be fair though, those guys broke through in a time when there was no writing team. Wrestlers did their own, improv, in a sense. In so doing, they had a wealth and breadth of just knowing their characters and the booking enhanced who they were and what they were about.

Even in taker's case, it took him a long time to talk and he needed a mouthpiece and less promo work was more with him. One "rest in peace" got over.

Now, these kids today, you couldn't even throw them to the wolves because have no clue what the hell they're doing and no real development outside of classroom work to experiment.

Its just some twisted self hatred that Vince hires writers who weren't good enough for reality TV or the CW network and lets them have authority and say over his performers.

Since these kids don't seem to be huge fans of wrestling, maybe take the whole roster to "The Revenant". Watched that last night. You talk about selling? Never do you doubt for a minute in this that the guy was injured. And that physicality made it very compelling

This is also why Ed Ferrera and Vince Russo can go drive into a fire -- hopefully in the same car. They wrote reality TV and have not a lick of wrestling sense or intelligence. Who the bleep writes a segment making fun of Jim Ross' bells palsy? I mean, WTF? That's out of bounds as far as I'm concerned. They weren't funny; heck, they weren't even as edgy as they thought. Give me Cornette/Ross/Dusty/Sullivan doing my TV and I guarantee I will whip your butt in ratings with lesser talent.

We differ a lot with Russo/Ferrera. I think at least Russo (and IMO both) belongs in the HOF. W/o that writing (and I don't care how great the performers were), WWE never approaches the heights it did. To me, the writing of the Rock's heel turn up to and at the Survivor Series 1998 was the best in the history of wrestling. And he did write his fair share of bad stuff (JR mockery is one of them). He's owned up to that and has apologized many times to JR.. Russo's podcast is the only wrestling related one I listen to daily/every week anymore. Far and away IMO the best out there. All video podcasts. Does cost $4.95/month (or $3.95 when promotion is ongoing). Well worth it.

Cornettte is STILL stuck 20+ years in the past with his Southern rasslin style of thinking. It didn't sell in the early/mid 90s in Memphis, didn't sell in the WWE in the mid 90s (and WWE ditched him), and doesn't now. Go read his thoughts on Lucha Underground and you'll see what a delusional blowhard he is now. He was a great manager and a meh booker. And to me that's the extent of it. His most enjoyable stuff was probably some of his shoot interviews. He's just become a bitter old man hat hasn't evolved like the rest of the world. He's become nothing more than a 50-something old troll. I used to enjoy his shoot interviews but he's simply become someone that says outrageous bull#### ......for the sake of saying outrageous bull#### to get a reaction. Cornette isn't a writer. Never has or will be. He's a booker. (Scripts the matches) If you want a PURE WRESTLING / 5 star match promotion.....Cornette is your guy.

I've always been and always will be a fan of WRITERS (like Russo/Ferrera and Chris DeJoseph of Lucha) than I will be wrestling personality BOOKERS like a Cornette. All these guys know is wrestling. (I'm not knocking that at all.......they're an asset to a company in the right role). The upside isn't there with simply JUST a booking team....limiting yourself to a straight wrestling promotion.

That was not writing, that was booking. Austin and Foley were central to that, and extenisions of characters they developed and created in ECW. How much we want to credit rock as a writer creation is up for debate, I've heard he had one guy who he developed his promos with, but taking your personalities into an angle (and I agree with you 1000 percent, that is probably my favorite angle of all time too) is different than saying we are taking a guy and going to craft every element.

How did Piper sound at the end, how did Hogan, how does Flair sound? They put words in the mouth of 3 of top 10 talkers of all time and they simply can not compare to what some writer is going to hand them with talk about the WWE universe instead of fans

Wrestling is wrestling because of guys that brought some bombast and personality. Now, its not for everyone, some guys would benefit from writing. If you can work and can't talk you can be supported through talking. But writing should be a secondary suppliment to what the development is, because if you don't train these guys to cut their promos to learn who THEY are themselves, they can never inhabit what they're trying to get over. What is the difference between a heel dolph ziggler and Tyler Breeze. Whats the separation between Jack Swagger and Titus O'Neill besides race?

Now I understand they're trying to address this, but can you ever fathom that we will have a Dusty Rhodes break out today and Connect with People? A Randy Savage? Even Ricky Steamboat's dry promos worked because you felt they were really what the guy was about.

Instead of finding a voice, which I'm sure all of us here have messed around doing out "well let me tell you something brother" in the bathroom mirror, and I'm sure almost all wrestlers have tried (though maybe not), you have words given to you by a guy who's best job he could get was writing for the WWE.

You get a steady stream of 6 and 7 promo guys and you have gotten rid of the 2's and 3's on the mic but you've also cost yourself the 9's and 10's on the stick. And the 9's and 10's are the stars, the icons, the people that actually draw. Its the reason Flair is a constant meme, Dusty Rhodes, Macho and Piper were all trending when they died.