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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (4 Viewers)

Everton deserved a point but thankfully De Gea came up big. United's defense still very average but looks much better than earlier in the season. McNairs actually done really well - Rojo hasn't outplayed him. RvP has not been impressive - I would consider letting Rooney partner with Falcao some and give Mata more games. One thing for sure is the new players in the side need better fitness. Blind and Falcao faded the last 30 and ADM lost a little. Rafael has played really well - I think Scooby pointed it out but United have no backup for him - Smalling isn't the answer especially when injured. I guess Valencia could slot in but he makes me nervous. Good 3 pts though - have to be happy after the start to the season.
I thought Mata was useless today. Dispossessed easily and wasted opportunities in the box. Outside of his excellent touch on Di Maria's goal, he shouldn't have been out there.
Watching Mata early, then Oscar's masterclass against Arsenal pretty strongly confirmed Mouriho's decision to go with the Brazilian imo. Mata's strength is creativity going forward, but he doesn't like tracking back and lacks the strength and tenacity that is so important in big games in England.

 
I'm going to Hipple the hell out of this thread re: Chelsea / Arsenal.

I thought Mourinho's selection spoke volumes about the fact that he doesn't consider Arsenal title contenders. TSO plays Ramires and Willian in games where he thinks he needs more steel. He starts Schurrle in home games against Burnley or Sunderland when he wants more creativity and isn't too worried about steel in midfield.

Now, it turns out that Oscar, at least, really ramped up the intensity for the game. I didn't think Arsenal played badly, but they didn't create much outside the one-two that Wilshere took a heavy touch on. Chelsea had the three best chances of the game and scored on two of them. I thought Arsenal smartly tried to limit Cesc's time on the ball, but Cesc proved that sometimes he doesn't need much time at all to deliver a backbreaking pass. That was pure class, similar to Hendo's pass against Southampton in the first game of the season.

Man City is maybe a contender with Chelsea. United and Liverpool might be able to grow into contenders, but I just don't see the horses at Arsenal to do it. Chelsea is, IMO, a perfectly constructed team. They have everything you could want for however you want to play. The only, tiny, weakness is that Hazard is not consistent enough to provide brilliant moments as often as a Messi or Ronaldo to bail out a team in bad patches.

 
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I'm going to Hipple the hell out of this thread re: Chelsea / Arsenal.
I'd like to have an alternate universe discussion, where we pretend Chelsea fans delayed the start by setting off flares in the Emirates concourse, Mourinho stormed into Wenger's tactical area and shoved the Arsenal manager in the chest, a Chelsea cast-off was MOTM for Arsenal while Chelsea's most expensive acquisition was a disinterested passenger. Would anyone be discussing those things today if the script was flipped?

 
I'm going to Hipple the hell out of this thread re: Chelsea / Arsenal.
I'd like to have an alternate universe discussion, where we pretend Chelsea fans delayed the start by setting off flares in the Emirates concourse, Mourinho stormed into Wenger's tactical area and shoved the Arsenal manager in the chest, a Chelsea cast-off was MOTM for Arsenal while Chelsea's most expensive acquisition was a disinterested passenger. Would anyone be discussing those things today if the script was flipped?
Bit of a persecution complex eh? Not very Carefree imo.

 
I'm going to Hipple the hell out of this thread re: Chelsea / Arsenal.
I'd like to have an alternate universe discussion, where we pretend Chelsea fans delayed the start by setting off flares in the Emirates concourse, Mourinho stormed into Wenger's tactical area and shoved the Arsenal manager in the chest, a Chelsea cast-off was MOTM for Arsenal while Chelsea's most expensive acquisition was a disinterested passenger. Would anyone be discussing those things today if the script was flipped?
I heard the reports on flares was made up.

I wasn't Arsene's finest hour. I understand the frustration. I don't think there's any argument that Mourinho is not both: 1) a colossal ****; and 2) a better manager than Wenger. That would probably get my goat too.

I'll eat all the crow you guys want on Cesc. I thought he was a great fit for Chelsea, but I also understood why Arsenal passed because I thought he was redundant with Rambo and Wilshere and Ozil. I was dead wrong. Even more than "physicality" from a DM, what Arsenal are missing in CM is a player who can influence the game from deep positions. Cesc has done so brilliantly and neither Rambo nor Wilshere can do it. Neither have the passing range or consistency. The best that Arsenal have in that role is the homeless man's Xabi Alonso, Arteta.

 
Very frustrating result for Swansea this weekend. They dominated play for most of the match, but when they did let their defensive guard down they paid dearly. You can't leave two points on the field at home against a side like Newcastle and expect to finish very high in the table.

Lack of real depth is going to hurt them going forward, and while Monk may yet prove to be a very good manager he's clearly still learning as he goes along. I think he outcoached himself by not sending in his subs earlier. Swansea are not yet good enough to coast through any matches without getting burned.

 
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Very frustrating result for Swansea this weekend. They dominated play for most of the match, but when they did let their defensive guard down they paid dearly. You can't leave two points on the field at home against a side like Newcastle and expect to finish very high in the table.

Lack of real depth is going to hurt them going forward, and while Monk may yet prove to be a very good manager he's clearly still learning as he goes along. I think he outcoached himself by not sending in his subs earlier. Swansea are not yet good enough to coast through any matches without getting burned.
Pardew needs to figure out whatever the hell it is that puts Cisse on his hot streaks. It's probably saved his job twice now.

 
I think the applet is interesting, but ultimately doesn't tell much of the whole story. United's position is interesting because they have the most room to grow. I don't think that's really something for Chelsea to be concerned about, but it's definitely something for Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham and the other teams vying for CL football to worry about.

 
I think the applet is interesting, but ultimately doesn't tell much of the whole story. United's position is interesting because they have the most room to grow. I don't think that's really something for Chelsea to be concerned about, but it's definitely something for Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham and the other teams vying for CL football to worry about.
Until they get that defense straightened out, they'll keep leaking points. They don't have a good enough defensive line to consistently sit back like they did against Everton and absorb pressure (that they willingly invite). At least they're exciting to watch now for footballing reasons as opposed to watching for the trainwreck.

Oh and :fro:

 
I know there is very little separation, but it is awfully interesting that United is sitting in 4th.
Not really, considering their opponents. They've had the easiest start out of the top 6 and are well off the pace for where "they should be" considering who they've had to play- this is where the aplt comes on handy, at least until the new year imo

http://i.imgur.com/bM2XQvw.png
What is this?
It's an alternate way to measure performance vs expect outcome.

Basically the premise is that a title will on average get 90pts, which they achieve by:

winning all home games: 19x3=57

drawing last years top 12 away: 12x1=12

winning against the bottom 7 teams (incl. promoted teams): 7x3=21

Top 4 finish is generally around 71pts.

Teams are assessed how they do against par. A loss at home against any team results in a -3 score, a draw -2, losing on the road could either be a -1 or -3 depending on opponent. You gain advantage by beating the better teams on the road.

 
Looking at that APLT it seems that many teams have leaked points against inferior competition (aside from Chelsea). This is what happens with so few data points though. Better to assess the recent trends and those are looking up for United and down for 'pool, IMO.

 
I think the applet is interesting, but ultimately doesn't tell much of the whole story. United's position is interesting because they have the most room to grow. I don't think that's really something for Chelsea to be concerned about, but it's definitely something for Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham and the other teams vying for CL football to worry about.
Yeah - I think it misses out on ManUtd bringing in guys like di Maria and Rojo, as well as Shaw and Blind, and it ignores the injury issue they had to start the season.

ManUtd are not ready to challenge Chelsea by any stretch, but I am not sure anyone is, outside of ManCity. But, they are definitely in the mix for top-4. And given that they have no mid-week games for a while, they will be rested and prepared every weekend.

 
I know there is very little separation, but it is awfully interesting that United is sitting in 4th.
Not really, considering their opponents. They've had the easiest start out of the top 6 and are well off the pace for where "they should be" considering who they've had to play- this is where the aplt comes on handy, at least until the new year imo

http://i.imgur.com/bM2XQvw.png
What is this?
It's an alternate way to measure performance vs expect outcome.

Basically the premise is that a title will on average get 90pts, which they achieve by:

winning all home games: 19x3=57

drawing last years top 12 away: 12x1=12

winning against the bottom 7 teams (incl. promoted teams): 7x3=21

Top 4 finish is generally around 71pts.

Teams are assessed how they do against par. A loss at home against any team results in a -3 score, a draw -2, losing on the road could either be a -1 or -3 depending on opponent. You gain advantage by beating the better teams on the road.
Makes sense. Isn't 90 points a larger than average 1st place finish though?

 
Looking at that APLT it seems that many teams have leaked points against inferior competition (aside from Chelsea). This is what happens with so few data points though. Better to assess the recent trends and those are looking up for United and down for 'pool, IMO.
Recent trends have fewer data points than the APL.

 
Looking at that APLT it seems that many teams have leaked points against inferior competition (aside from Chelsea). This is what happens with so few data points though. Better to assess the recent trends and those are looking up for United and down for 'pool, IMO.
I don't disagree at all, and it's not the only "truth"... It doesn't take into account strengthening of your own squad, or the fact that "lesser" teams could've improved, or elite teams regressed. It's only meant to give an indication on how easy/tough the opponents have been in the fixtures played and the results in those games.Historically it has given a decent indication of how teams are doing.

 
I know there is very little separation, but it is awfully interesting that United is sitting in 4th.
Not really, considering their opponents. They've had the easiest start out of the top 6 and are well off the pace for where "they should be" considering who they've had to play- this is where the aplt comes on handy, at least until the new year imohttp://i.imgur.com/bM2XQvw.png
What is this?
It's an alternate way to measure performance vs expect outcome.Basically the premise is that a title will on average get 90pts, which they achieve by:

winning all home games: 19x3=57

drawing last years top 12 away: 12x1=12

winning against the bottom 7 teams (incl. promoted teams): 7x3=21

Top 4 finish is generally around 71pts.

Teams are assessed how they do against par. A loss at home against any team results in a -3 score, a draw -2, losing on the road could either be a -1 or -3 depending on opponent. You gain advantage by beating the better teams on the road.
Makes sense. Isn't 90 points a larger than average 1st place finish though?
Recently yes. Most recent winners come in around the high 80's.

 
I think the applet is interesting, but ultimately doesn't tell much of the whole story. United's position is interesting because they have the most room to grow. I don't think that's really something for Chelsea to be concerned about, but it's definitely something for Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham and the other teams vying for CL football to worry about.
Yeah - I think it misses out on ManUtd bringing in guys like di Maria and Rojo, as well as Shaw and Blind, and it ignores the injury issue they had to start the season.

ManUtd are not ready to challenge Chelsea by any stretch, but I am not sure anyone is, outside of ManCity. But, they are definitely in the mix for top-4. And given that they have no mid-week games for a while, they will be rested and prepared every weekend.
What it does show is that ManUtd has played an "easy" schedule to start the season, and they haven't performed up to par during the first 7 game. It is not predicting the future.

 
The upcoming schedule will tell for sure where United (4th place, 11pts) sits:

10/20 at West Brom (14, 8pts)

10/26 vs Chelsea (1, 19pts)

11/2 at Man City (2, 14pts)

11/8 vs Crystal Palace (15, 8pts)

11/22 at Arsenal (8, 10pts)

11/29 vs Hull City (11, 9pts)

Chelsea looks too good right now for anyone to challenge. Costa is on fire like Suarez was last season. Not sure the United defense can contain him. with Shaw injured we may see a backline of Rafael, McNair, Rojo, Blackett. Thats a lot of youth.

 
Pretty sure Chelsea is going to make 90 and win this going away, sadly. Time to start considering how far they can go in CL.
Its possible their continued success depends quite a bit on Diego Costa's not-so-reliable hamstrings. The fact that he started and played 90 midweek against Sporting shows how little faith Mourniho has in Drogba and Remy. With continued Spain call-ups, that's a pretty fragile situation.

 
The upcoming schedule will tell for sure where United (4th place, 11pts) sits:

10/20 at West Brom (14, 8pts) - PAR3

10/26 vs Chelsea (1, 19pts) - PAR3

11/2 at Man City (2, 14pts) - PAR1

11/8 vs Crystal Palace (15, 8pts) - PAR3

11/22 at Arsenal (8, 10pts) - PAR1

11/29 vs Hull City (11, 9pts) - PAR3

Chelsea looks too good right now for anyone to challenge. Costa is on fire like Suarez was last season. Not sure the United defense can contain him. with Shaw injured we may see a backline of Rafael, McNair, Rojo, Blackett. Thats a lot of youth.
They need 14pts out of 18 possible to maintain par, and win against ManC and/or Arsenal away to improve on their bad start (-10)

 
Looking at that APLT it seems that many teams have leaked points against inferior competition (aside from Chelsea).
APLT tracks the expected results needed to win the league. Since only one team actually does win the league each year, "nearly every team falling below par" is the expected result, not some statistical anomaly.

 
Everton deserved a point but thankfully De Gea came up big. United's defense still very average but looks much better than earlier in the season. McNairs actually done really well - Rojo hasn't outplayed him. RvP has not been impressive - I would consider letting Rooney partner with Falcao some and give Mata more games. One thing for sure is the new players in the side need better fitness. Blind and Falcao faded the last 30 and ADM lost a little. Rafael has played really well - I think Scooby pointed it out but United have no backup for him - Smalling isn't the answer especially when injured. I guess Valencia could slot in but he makes me nervous. Good 3 pts though - have to be happy after the start to the season.
I thought Mata was useless today. Dispossessed easily and wasted opportunities in the box. Outside of his excellent touch on Di Maria's goal, he shouldn't have been out there.
Watching Mata early, then Oscar's masterclass against Arsenal pretty strongly confirmed Mouriho's decision to go with the Brazilian imo. Mata's strength is creativity going forward, but he doesn't like tracking back and lacks the strength and tenacity that is so important in big games in England.
What you're sayimg that Mata is basically a #### Santi Cazorla?

 
Pretty sure Chelsea is going to make 90 and win this going away, sadly. Time to start considering how far they can go in CL.
Its possible their continued success depends quite a bit on Diego Costa's not-so-reliable hamstrings. The fact that he started and played 90 midweek against Sporting shows how little faith Mourniho has in Drogba and Remy. With continued Spain call-ups, that's a pretty fragile situation.
Drogba is hurt, right?

P.S. I love Remy

 
Pretty sure Chelsea is going to make 90 and win this going away, sadly. Time to start considering how far they can go in CL.
Its possible their continued success depends quite a bit on Diego Costa's not-so-reliable hamstrings. The fact that he started and played 90 midweek against Sporting shows how little faith Mourniho has in Drogba and Remy. With continued Spain call-ups, that's a pretty fragile situation.
:goodposting:

when Costa goes down, THEN we'll see how much of a run-away contender Chelsea is. they're still very, very good though.

 
Pretty sure Chelsea is going to make 90 and win this going away, sadly. Time to start considering how far they can go in CL.
Its possible their continued success depends quite a bit on Diego Costa's not-so-reliable hamstrings. The fact that he started and played 90 midweek against Sporting shows how little faith Mourniho has in Drogba and Remy. With continued Spain call-ups, that's a pretty fragile situation.
I might rather have recent vintage Eto'o than recent vintage Drogba, but otherwise I think Chelsea is no worse off at 9 in reserve. Remy, and even Schurrle are better in that position than what a lot of teams are going to run out there.

 
Pretty sure Chelsea is going to make 90 and win this going away, sadly. Time to start considering how far they can go in CL.
Its possible their continued success depends quite a bit on Diego Costa's not-so-reliable hamstrings. The fact that he started and played 90 midweek against Sporting shows how little faith Mourniho has in Drogba and Remy. With continued Spain call-ups, that's a pretty fragile situation.
I might rather have recent vintage Eto'o than recent vintage Drogba, but otherwise I think Chelsea is no worse off at 9 in reserve. Remy, and even Schurrle are better in that position than what a lot of teams are going to run out there.
It will be interesting to see how Remy fits the team. I've no idea how that is going to work. Maybe we'll see him in the League Cup against Shrewsbury Town, which is possibly what it will take for Mourniho to trust him with a start. Drogba got a start at home against Schalke a couple weeks ago and confirmed that he's strictly in the joker role - 85th minute guy. I agree even Eto'o would be better. If the club finds itself deep in the FA cup with midweek games against top Euro teams this Feb/March, its going to be interesting, potentially boring boring.

 
I'm going to Hipple the hell out of this thread re: Chelsea / Arsenal.

I thought Mourinho's selection spoke volumes about the fact that he doesn't consider Arsenal title contenders. TSO plays Ramires and Willian in games where he thinks he needs more steel. He starts Schurrle in home games against Burnley or Sunderland when he wants more creativity and isn't too worried about steel in midfield.

Now, it turns out that Oscar, at least, really ramped up the intensity for the game. I didn't think Arsenal played badly, but they didn't create much outside the one-two that Wilshere took a heavy touch on. Chelsea had the three best chances of the game and scored on two of them. I thought Arsenal smartly tried to limit Cesc's time on the ball, but Cesc proved that sometimes he doesn't need much time at all to deliver a backbreaking pass. That was pure class, similar to Hendo's pass against Southampton in the first game of the season.

Man City is maybe a contender with Chelsea. United and Liverpool might be able to grow into contenders, but I just don't see the horses at Arsenal to do it. Chelsea is, IMO, a perfectly constructed team. They have everything you could want for however you want to play. The only, tiny, weakness is that Hazard is not consistent enough to provide brilliant moments as often as a Messi or Ronaldo to bail out a team in bad patches.
I can't disagree with any of this.

 
Unpopular though this opinion may be with some of my fellow futbollers; I like the Europa League. When else am I going to get to see how wild a Serbian crowd can be on a Thursday night? I would have loved to see a Spurs win, but I kinda think the Serb supporters were the MOTM today.
Even these guys?
:oldunsure: : that did not make it on to Fox Soccer+ tonight.
UEFA has acted and told Partizan that their next fixture against Besiktas will be played with the 'K' section of their stadium shut. The club have also been fined 40,000 euros
 
Jens Keller fired and Di Matteo in at Schalke. This really broke quite well for Robbie - had a massive salary from Chelsea which I think expired this past summer, lands on his feet at a good club with a strong base and great stadium. Plus, he's an expert at beating Bayern, so should do well in the Bundesliga.
Mjolnirs read this with a single tear running down his cheek.
There's no shame in finishing second to a great champion.

 
Another comparison table: http://i.imgur.com/iwO92CZ.png

This one looks at comparative results/matches to last year, and projects the points total. I thought it was interesting that ManC still looks to retain the title in this one.

 
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