***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (6 Viewers)

[eagles2007]

David Regis is a flaw in the system. He married an American woman and could therefore play for us? No.

Stewart looks like the son of a US Army soldier. But he spent the first 19 years of his life in Europe. He shouldn't be allowed to play for us either.

Adu's family moved here when he was 8. I have slightly less of a problem with that.

As for Rossi, he was born and raised in NJ. His mom still lives there if I read the stories right. He's a traitor and I'd egg his mother's house if I was close enough.

As for Regis and Stewart, they both chose to play 'down' by playing for the US. Could either have made their home country's national team as a starter?

 

[Bonzai]

It's so easy to call Rossi a traitor and fail to mention all of the "traitors" that have helped make the USMNT what it is today....guys like David Regis, Earnie Stewart, etc. Even traitors like Freddy Adu and the yet-to-be-capped Stuart Holden.I mean, obviously it'd be pretty sweet if we had him, but it goes both ways.

who of those guys were born somewhere other than here?

All 4 of them...there's more too, I'm sure, but they came to me immediately and I didn't want to do any research on it.If you want to go old-school, neither (one of) the captain(s) of the 1950 World Cup team (Ed McIlvenny) nor the goal-scorer in the legendary 1-0 upset over England (Joe Gaetjens) were born in America.ETA - just after posting this, Tab Ramos came to mindETA2 - Jeff Agoos

The difference is that none of those guys are/were contributors on their other potential teams. I think it's more forgivable if you know a guy isn't going to get playing time in one country and plays in another. But turning your back on the opportunity to be a star in your home country vaults you into terrorist/child molester territory.

 

[Steve Tasker]

David Regis is a flaw in the system. He married an American woman and could therefore play for us? No. Stewart looks like the son of a US Army soldier. But he spent the first 19 years of his life in Europe. He shouldn't be allowed to play for us either.Adu's family moved here when he was 8. I have slightly less of a problem with that. As for Rossi, he was born and raised in NJ. His mom still lives there if I read the stories right. He's a traitor and I'd egg his mother's house if I was close enough.As for Regis and Stewart, they both chose to play 'down' by playing for the US. Could either have made their home country's national team as a starter?

Of course not, and I'm sure that's why they chose to play for the US. If I married a woman from like Grenada and I was offered a chance to play for them....####, I'd play for them too. It'd be a hell of a lot of fun.I'm just trying to make the point that everyone #####es and moans about Giuseppe Rossi but just ignores all of the non-American born players who've played for us over the years. I want Rossi to play for us too...he's a great player, and it sucks to lose him.I don't remember anyone in here making the argument that Neven Subotic should've chosen Serbia or Bosnia over the USA because he was born over there...we all wanted the same thing - we wanted Subotic to play for the USA, regardless of where he was born.And I haven't seen any outrage over Jermaine Jones coming to play for the US, but he wasn't born in America . I know all situations are different, but if you're ok with guys like Freddy Adu, Jermaine Jones, etc. playing for the US because their parents are of American descent (Jones), you gotta take the lumps from players like Rossi and Brede Hangeland leaving the US to play in the countries of their parents.Just trying to paint the other side of the picture...

 

[TLEF316]

the part that's really tough to stomach is that he lived in the US his whole life. Soccer is the only reason he went to Europe. Italy is better than the US, so he plays for Italy. I get it, but its still lame.

I'll never complain about Subotic playing for Serbia. It would be nice to have him, but thats probably where he should be. Jones coming over appears to be based purely on spite for the German coach. His connection to the US is only slightly stronger than Rossi's to Italy (Rossi's father chose to come to the US. Jones' father was stationed in Germany. Not there by choice)

Rossi is an American in every way, other than who he chose to play soccer for.

I dont think the Adu situation is at all similar. Adu's family came to the US to have a better life. They didn't come here so he could be a soccer star.

Again, not attacking the kid or anything. Every situation is different. It just seems like his situation is a case of just wanting to play for the better team

edit: a quick trip to wikipedia shows that Jones spent a good part of his childhood in the US. I don't believe that rossi ever lived in Italy prior to his soccer career taking off.

 

[Steve Tasker]

the part that's really tough to stomach is that he lived in the US his whole life. Soccer is the only reason he went to Europe. Italy is better than the US, so he plays for Italy. I get it, but its still lame.I'll never complain about Subotic playing for Serbia. It would be nice to have him, but thats probably where he should be. Jones coming over appears to be based purely on spite for the German coach. His connection to the US is only slightly stronger than Rossi's to Italy (Rossi's father chose to come to the US. Jones' father was stationed in Germany. Not there by choice) Rossi is an American in every way, other than who he chose to play soccer for. I dont think the Adu situation is at all similar. Adu's family came to the US to have a better life. They didn't come here so he could be a soccer star. Again, not attacking the kid or anything. Every situation is different. It just seems like his situation is a case of just wanting to play for the better team

Well, it IS a situation of him wanting to play for the better team, that's for sure....I think we all agree on that. It's nothing new though

 

[The Z Machine]

Rossi isn't a "traitor". Give me a break, that's ridiculous talk.

I'm sure he considers himself more Italian than American, or at the minimum bi-cultural. Other than being upset at him scoring 2 goals against the USMNT, I have nothing against the guy. He's following both the money, and his heart. Can't fault him for that, or do you hate capitalism, you euro-loving socialist queens?

 

[TLEF316]

the part that's really tough to stomach is that he lived in the US his whole life. Soccer is the only reason he went to Europe. Italy is better than the US, so he plays for Italy. I get it, but its still lame.I'll never complain about Subotic playing for Serbia. It would be nice to have him, but thats probably where he should be. Jones coming over appears to be based purely on spite for the German coach. His connection to the US is only slightly stronger than Rossi's to Italy (Rossi's father chose to come to the US. Jones' father was stationed in Germany. Not there by choice) Rossi is an American in every way, other than who he chose to play soccer for. I dont think the Adu situation is at all similar. Adu's family came to the US to have a better life. They didn't come here so he could be a soccer star. Again, not attacking the kid or anything. Every situation is different. It just seems like his situation is a case of just wanting to play for the better team

Well, it IS a situation of him wanting to play for the better team, that's for sure....I think we all agree on that. It's nothing new though

I haven't really seen most of them (today was my first look at Rossi) but i'm curious.... How good would a US team with Subotic, Rossi, Jones and the mexican kid (forget his name) be? Obviously, chemistry plays a part, but it seems to me that all of these guys are big time talents. Would that infusion of talent push the US squarely into the top 10? Top 5?

 

[Steve Tasker]

I haven't really seen most of them (today was my first look at Rossi) but i'm curious.... How good would a US team with Subotic, Rossi, Jones and the mexican kid (forget his name) be? Obviously, chemistry plays a part, but it seems to me that all of these guys are big time talents. Would that infusion of talent push the US squarely into the top 10? Top 5?

IMO, Subotic and Hangeland would start at CB for us, no doubt. We'd be able to move Bocanegra to outside back and help shore up our defense. I think we could greatly use those two.Jones will probably start as it is.

 

[TLEF316]

gotta think that the kid from New Mexico would start at left back, correct?

 

[Steve Tasker]

Edgar Castillo? To be honest, I don't know much about him.

 

[eagles2007]

Steve Tasker

I wasn't trying to pick a fight. I just hate that these people come to the US and take advantage of our situation then leave. I guess it comes from constantly hearing we are the greatest country in the world. It can be frustrating that a kid like Rossi who may turn out to be a superstar in Italy, could have been a megawatt, ultimate difference-maker player in the States.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Steve TaskerI wasn't trying to pick a fight. I just hate that these people come to the US and take advantage of our situation then leave. I guess it comes from constantly hearing we are the greatest country in the world. It can be frustrating that a kid like Rossi who may turn out to be a superstar in Italy, could have been a megawatt, ultimate difference-maker player in the States.

Oh....I wasn't trying to start a fight either.I'm just saying that everyone (not just people here....I had a friend call me repeatedly and text "traitor" to me after he scored those goals today) always acts like he's a huge ##### traitor. While that may be the case, the USMNT has used FIFA's qualifying rules to our advantage in the past, and I think you have to take the good with the bad.I mean, we all agree that he's a tremendous talent and would be the best player on the team, and we all wish he could have played here. You win some, you lose some, IMO.

 

[prefontaine]

Player ratingsDeMerit -- 6 -- Not bad. Not great. Backed off a bit too much at times.Gooch -- 5.5 -- Towering in the air. There are still times when he just seems clumsy. Looked like his feet were mixed up on the second goal. I'm not sure that can be corrected.

Hey scooby, curious given the above average ratings to everyone, was this on a curve? Also, can you explain more why you give DeMerit a 6 and Gooch a 5.5. I definitely thought Gooch > Demerit. Demerit was out of position time and again (playing too high, too low, etc) and played passively by failing to step into the attack several times. I'm not saying he was awful but I only say that given the stage and the opponent. If he was our every game starting center back I'd say we are in trouble.Also, I agree with Z, Clark was not very good before the stupid foul. He lacks patience on the ball and he wasn't shutting down space like I'd like.

 

[LHUCKS]

My thoughts:

Dempsey continues to disappear, guy hasn't done anything for what seems like forever.

Altidore could be a force in 2010...kid is special.

We got hosed on the redcard, the match was over right then...nobody can beat Italy with a man down.

Specter was awesome...probably should replace Gooch if his downward spiral continues.

Gooch continues to look slow, he might need to be yanked against smaller teams.

Demerit sucked.

Donovan was great, looked fast.

Rossi is a traitor...if your born in a country and you grow up there, that should be your country...end of story.

Bradley actually used DMB correctly...for the first time in a while.

Still searching for answers in the middle and at the backs...

All in all I thought it was the best we've looked in a long, long time. It actually gave me some hope that we're not too far away from putting the pieces together and making a serious run in 2010.

 

[TLEF316]

cant believe that bradley and altidore blew those 2 early chances. Altidore's was especially bad. Someone (i believe it was donovan) hits him in stride inside the box, the goalie is caught in no mans land, he's got nobody in front of him.....and he tries to pass it back to donovan through 2 italians. I could have put that ball in. it was brutal.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Traitor? Seriously??

Seems to me that criticizing/penalizing people for being proud of their heritage is pretty ####### un-American

Can we stop with the jingoistic myopia?

Would it be great if Rossi had chosen to play for the US? Sure...

Were any of you complaining when Freddy Adu was annointed as the next big thing?

I doubt it...

ETA: You know the "Miracle on Grass" in 1950 when we beat England? 3 of our starting 11 weren't born in the US

This is the nature of the sport

 

[B Maverick]

The red card was boarderline. The game was being well played by both sides and it wasnt getting chippy. The foul wasnt flagrant, maybe a bit reckless, but not flagrant. At that point a red was unnecessary and that early in the game changes everything. If you give it a red there, you HAVE to give Italy a red for the elbow to Donovan's head. You already established that with the early red to the US.

Donaovan looked good, i didnt like his choice of passes to Bradley but it worked out and Bradley should have buried it. Altidore too. That right there was our game.

I missed the beginning but reasing thu this i guess Italky didnt start with their top team? Came in after half up a man to bury the US?

Why does it seem like we are always playing men down vs Italy?

 

[Steve Tasker]

Traitor? Seriously??Seems to me that criticizing/penalizing people for being proud of their heritage is pretty ####### un-AmericanCan we stop with the jingoistic myopia?Would it be great if Rossi had chosen to play for the US? Sure...Were any of you complaining when Freddy Adu was annointed as the next big thing?I doubt it...ETA: You know the "Miracle on Grass" in 1950 when we beat England? 3 of our starting 11 weren't born in the USThis is the nature of the sport

Honda, but I'll allow it because you're on my side

 

[Texas Football]

The red card was boarderline. The game was being well played by both sides and it wasnt getting chippy. The foul wasnt flagrant, maybe a bit reckless, but not flagrant. At that point a red was unnecessary and that early in the game changes everything. If you give it a red there, you HAVE to give Italy a red for the elbow to Donovan's head. You already established that with the early red to the US.Donaovan looked good, i didnt like his choice of passes to Bradley but it worked out and Bradley should have buried it. Altidore too. That right there was our game.I missed the beginning but reasing thu this i guess Italky didnt start with their top team? Came in after half up a man to bury the US? Why does it seem like we are always playing men down vs Italy?

The red card was indeed borderline and it completely changed the game of course. It was knee high as well as late is my guess for the straight red. I don't think anyone would have been angry if he was just warned with a yellow. Bradley played very well beside the non-shot and Altidore seemed to be in pretty good position. he also took on 2 defenders early on in the corner which was refreshing to see from the US side.The US out hustled Italy for much of the first half, but that was about the only good I saw. Bradley and Altidore choked on finishes that would have really put Italy down for the count. The Italians are simply head and shoulders above the US when it come to technique and individual skill. Hustle will only get you so far.Pirlo is an absolute genius with distribution and the Italian side seems deeper than in the Euro Championship. They can make a run at Brazil and Spain I think. Slow starts and all they got the result they wanted. Another tournament with a banged up Cannavaro...The traitor comment is ridiculous. Rossi broke no rules and this type of movement happens everywhere. He wants to play and win on the biggest stage. No chance the US is there in the next 10-15 years. even with Subotic and the others. No depth and questionable coaching at the present.I think the US may hustle themselves to a point or 3 in SA next year, but I will be impressed if they get away with 1 in this tourney. Egypt has the potential to destroy the US in the current form. That leaves Brazil....I'm sure I sound like a USMNT hater, but that really isn't the case. I just don't see a team in the near future that can do anything outside of CONCACAF. I wish I did.

 

[Steve Tasker]

You know....without a cracker of a goal from a Brazilian-born midfielder in the Gold Cup final in 2007....we wouldn't even be in the Confederations Cup....

 

[Steve Tasker]

I think the US may hustle themselves to a point or 3 in SA next year, but I will be impressed if they get away with 1 in this tourney. Egypt has the potential to destroy the US in the current form. That leaves Brazil....I'm sure I sound like a USMNT hater, but that really isn't the case. I just don't see a team in the near future that can do anything outside of CONCACAF. I wish I did.

I think you sound like a realist. Before the tournament, I predicted these results to a friend:2-1 loss to Italy2-0 loss to Brazil1-1 draw with EgyptAfter seeing the way Egypt played today, getting that point in Africa is going to be a lot harder than I anticipated. I wouldn't be surprised if we lose that game.

 

[eagles2007]

totally agree with the assessments of egypt

strange things tend to happen in the third game of these tourneys though. if brazil and italy are both 2-0 and us and egypt are both 0-2, one of the 0-2 teams won't show up because they don't know how to play for pride. seems to happen all the time no one thought we would lose to ghana 3 years ago in germany, either.

by the way: what moron assembled the brackets? I'd say the 2-5 teams are in the usa's bracket.

 

[LHUCKS]

Yeah, ESPN.

Christo posted this link which is pretty good.

USA/Italy on Monday for a rematch of the 2006 cup game. It's a shame that the world's 2 best teams have to beat up on each other so early

bump for TV schedule

 

[The Z Machine]

So this morning, 60,000-70,000 fans of Real Betis took to the streets of Sevilla, asking the owner of the club, Manual de Lopera to sell the club and leave. They were recently relegated to the Segunda. Here's an article: http://www.as.com/futbol/articulo/futbol-6...asdaiftb_32/Tes

It's amazing that so many people could come out and protest together for something related to soccer. A "manifesto" was read by a famous singer declaring the peoples' love of Betis and their desire to get out of the Segunda as soon as possible. They blame the owner for squandering the money and having generally poor performance. This is serious business. I think he'll sell this summer. Even former players were seen in the crowd protesting.

My Atleti seem to be going after Filipe Luis, a DL that plays for Deportivo. I don't know too much about him, other than he's Brazilian with an Italian passport. I think he started for Depor last season.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

<random sidetrack>

Anyone know of a place that sells Premier League glassware? I've found pint glasses, shot glasses, etc.; but I'm specifically looking for a couple of Liverpool highball glasses. So far, the interwebz has failed me.

</random sidetrack>

 

[Steve Tasker]

totally agree with the assessments of egypt strange things tend to happen in the third game of these tourneys though. if brazil and italy are both 2-0 and us and egypt are both 0-2, one of the 0-2 teams won't show up because they don't know how to play for pride. seems to happen all the time no one thought we would lose to ghana 3 years ago in germany, either.by the way: what moron assembled the brackets? I'd say the 2-5 teams are in the usa's bracket.

I think Ghana surprised a lot of people (myself included) in 2006. I expected Ivory Coast to be the class of Africa...Going into that final game in 2006 though, the USA still could've qualified for the second round. We needed essentially a win and an Italy win to qualify for the second round....USA just didn't take care of business...

 

[Desert_Power]

Toni sucks balls

He is useless.did you notice how he fell twice in his first action of the game?

 

[CletiusMaximus]

totally agree with the assessments of egypt strange things tend to happen in the third game of these tourneys though. if brazil and italy are both 2-0 and us and egypt are both 0-2, one of the 0-2 teams won't show up because they don't know how to play for pride. seems to happen all the time no one thought we would lose to ghana 3 years ago in germany, either.by the way: what moron assembled the brackets? I'd say the 2-5 teams are in the usa's bracket.

I think Ghana surprised a lot of people (myself included) in 2006. I expected Ivory Coast to be the class of Africa...Going into that final game in 2006 though, the USA still could've qualified for the second round. We needed essentially a win and an Italy win to qualify for the second round....USA just didn't take care of business...

I don't recall much surprise with the result at the time as Ghana was coming off a 2-0 thumping of the Czechs, the team that had drubbed the US 3-0 a week earlier. Ghana had easily the best two players on the field in Essien and Appiah, and the rest of its roster was largely made up of players from top clubs throughout the European leagues.

 

[Steve Tasker]

totally agree with the assessments of egypt strange things tend to happen in the third game of these tourneys though. if brazil and italy are both 2-0 and us and egypt are both 0-2, one of the 0-2 teams won't show up because they don't know how to play for pride. seems to happen all the time no one thought we would lose to ghana 3 years ago in germany, either.by the way: what moron assembled the brackets? I'd say the 2-5 teams are in the usa's bracket.

I think Ghana surprised a lot of people (myself included) in 2006. I expected Ivory Coast to be the class of Africa...Going into that final game in 2006 though, the USA still could've qualified for the second round. We needed essentially a win and an Italy win to qualify for the second round....USA just didn't take care of business...

I don't recall much surprise with the result at the time as Ghana was coming off a 2-0 thumping of the Czechs, the team that had drubbed the US 3-0 a week earlier. Ghana had easily the best two players on the field in Essien and Appiah, and the rest of its roster was largely made up of players from top clubs throughout the European leagues.

I meant surprised the tournament as a whole, not just the US game. Ghana was good, but Ivory Coast had guys like Drogba, the Toure brothers, Eboue, the Kone brothers, Keita, Didier Zokora, Bona Kalou.... I expected them to make some waves. Maybe the Group of Death was their downfall.

 

[El Floppo]

Holy ####. I don't know why I thought Ronaldo was staying at United... if they can get Villa too- christ. Villa, Kaka, Ronaldo? Now we just need a US network to carry La Liga, or at least every Barca v RM game.

Goltv

channel 459 on Time Warner in NYC Floppo.

 

[Desert_Power]

Evidently the Spanish paper AS is a fan of labeling Rossi a traitor.

 

[El Floppo]

It's so easy to call Rossi a traitor and fail to mention all of the "traitors" that have helped make the USMNT what it is today....guys like David Regis, Earnie Stewart, etc. Even traitors like Freddy Adu and the yet-to-be-capped Stuart Holden.I mean, obviously it'd be pretty sweet if we had him, but it goes both ways.

Regis, Stewart, etc were never going to play for their real countries. Adu was brought up in the US, even if he was born in Ghana.Rossi was born and raised in the US... even gave a shout out to his family watching in the states. I honestly wanted somebody to break his leg.Great freaking goal though. ####### traitor.

 

[El Floppo]

Who else thinks that Ricardo Clarke's place in the starting 11 is pretty much done?

:raiseshand:

are you making a funny since he's out for the game against Brasil?thought he's been great the last two games (Honduras and Italy) and combined with Bradley (who had a great game... other than that oof shot) to shut down Pirlo until the sending off. I felt like he played himself into the starting 11 with his effort- even if the foul (after he got fouled but not called) was a stupid one to make, especially against an italian team that's going to make a meal of any late or high contact.

 

[Steve Tasker]

I know we've beaten the Rossi thing to death, but one thing that I thought about last night....I wonder if Rossi was worried about his club game taking a hit if he chose to play for the USA. Let's be honest....no US players have had really great, continued success at the top levels of European football. Ok...a couple of guys (Howard, Reyna, McBride) have had good success in England, but these guys aren't starring (anymore, at least) for United, or Liverpool, or Arsenal. They're not in Spain tearing it up for Madrid or Barca, they're not in Italy playing for Milan or Inter.

Now, I'm not suggesting that Americans (plural) will never make a big impact on the truly big-name world stage. But they haven't yet, and it wouldn't surprise me if it takes a long, long time for that to be the case. Rossi doesn't have the time to wait another 20 years. If he wants a shot to play top-level European football for a team like, say, Villarreal....maybe in his mind he needs to be playing with the best players, against better competition, etc.

I've played on some great premier league teams over the years, teams that played for the state cup and won international tournaments. And during those same summers, I'd play for the local club team, and we'd finish 10th place out of 12 in the area. I can honestly say that I played a hell of a lot better on the premier team....not because I wanted to play better, but because playing with that caliber of player, against quality competition, really does make you a better player. I wonder if Rossi consciously felt that...

1. I can star for the US, and play for a good team overseas (think Everton, Fiorentina - 2nd tier teams in top leagues) and MAYBE have a shot at the real big time

or

2. I can battle for a spot in Italy, against great players, against better teams, on the biggest stage of them all in Europe....

Which one of those two gives the guy a better shot at long-term glory, or long-term payday?

 

[El Floppo]

Frustrating game for the US. That red card changed everything obviously. They seemed to play with some passion, and some of the skills and work was there.

There are some gaping holes though yet to be filled, particularly at the RB and LB positions. Bradley has cemented his place, and it's possible that Altidore has made a strong case to be the starting striker IMO. He's not there yet, but he might be the best that the US has, especially against top competition. Ching is probably the better player for CONCACAF qualifying though.

We really miss Bocanegra and Pablo though IMO. They make far fewer mistakes than their replacements.

Z... you are my FFA brother and all, but you've been pretty off lately with the USMNT. RB- Cherundolo is a lock when he gets healthy, and Spector has shown the last two games he is capable of playing against world class competition. With Hejduk in the mix, RB is about as deep as we've got these days.

LB... not so much. Thought Bornstein was really exposed the last two games. Nervous with the ball and constantly diving in (ala the old Hejduk) unneccessarily.

Agree about Ching v Altidore... Altidore clearly is the more talented and will make the team better- in the future. For now, there's something missing between the MF and him- spacing, timing, chemistry... hard to say by only watching him on TV and not seeing what's happening off the ball. Getting to watch the US play Argentina in person was the coup de grace for me with Eddie Johnson- he had no idea what to do off the ball the whole game. That said- the ball LD played to of: Bradley was created by a great awareness and run by Jozy diagonally through the box clearing the lane of Bradley- I replayed that one a few times and you could see Jozy look the whole thing through as LD ran towards the box. I the kid.

 

[Native]

I know we've beaten the Rossi thing to death, but one thing that I thought about last night....I wonder if Rossi was worried about his club game taking a hit if he chose to play for the USA. Let's be honest....no US players have had really great, continued success at the top levels of European football. Ok...a couple of guys (Howard, Reyna, McBride) have had good success in England, but these guys aren't starring (anymore, at least) for United, or Liverpool, or Arsenal. They're not in Spain tearing it up for Madrid or Barca, they're not in Italy playing for Milan or Inter.Now, I'm not suggesting that Americans (plural) will never make a big impact on the truly big-name world stage. But they haven't yet, and it wouldn't surprise me if it takes a long, long time for that to be the case. Rossi doesn't have the time to wait another 20 years. If he wants a shot to play top-level European football for a team like, say, Villarreal....maybe in his mind he needs to be playing with the best players, against better competition, etc.I've played on some great premier league teams over the years, teams that played for the state cup and won international tournaments. And during those same summers, I'd play for the local club team, and we'd finish 10th place out of 12 in the area. I can honestly say that I played a hell of a lot better on the premier team....not because I wanted to play better, but because playing with that caliber of player, against quality competition, really does make you a better player. I wonder if Rossi consciously felt that...1. I can star for the US, and play for a good team overseas (think Everton, Fiorentina - 2nd tier teams in top leagues) and MAYBE have a shot at the real big timeor2. I can battle for a spot in Italy, against great players, against better teams, on the biggest stage of them all in Europe....Which one of those two gives the guy a better shot at long-term glory, or long-term payday?

Agree with you about the club play. Truth is, none of this really surprises me. Football is a game of prestige, more so than any other sport. Players aspire to play for the largest, most successful clubs. As a natural offshoot, if a talented player has the opportunity to play for a World Class National squad (like Italy), he takes it.Anyway, its not like all of his friends growing up in Teaneck, NJ spoke all day about playing for the USMNT. They spoke about playing football at Notre Dame or playing basketball in the Big East.

 

[Bonzai]

I know we've beaten the Rossi thing to death, but one thing that I thought about last night....I wonder if Rossi was worried about his club game taking a hit if he chose to play for the USA. Let's be honest....no US players have had really great, continued success at the top levels of European football. Ok...a couple of guys (Howard, Reyna, McBride) have had good success in England, but these guys aren't starring (anymore, at least) for United, or Liverpool, or Arsenal. They're not in Spain tearing it up for Madrid or Barca, they're not in Italy playing for Milan or Inter.Now, I'm not suggesting that Americans (plural) will never make a big impact on the truly big-name world stage. But they haven't yet, and it wouldn't surprise me if it takes a long, long time for that to be the case. Rossi doesn't have the time to wait another 20 years. If he wants a shot to play top-level European football for a team like, say, Villarreal....maybe in his mind he needs to be playing with the best players, against better competition, etc.I've played on some great premier league teams over the years, teams that played for the state cup and won international tournaments. And during those same summers, I'd play for the local club team, and we'd finish 10th place out of 12 in the area. I can honestly say that I played a hell of a lot better on the premier team....not because I wanted to play better, but because playing with that caliber of player, against quality competition, really does make you a better player. I wonder if Rossi consciously felt that...1. I can star for the US, and play for a good team overseas (think Everton, Fiorentina - 2nd tier teams in top leagues) and MAYBE have a shot at the real big timeor2. I can battle for a spot in Italy, against great players, against better teams, on the biggest stage of them all in Europe....Which one of those two gives the guy a better shot at long-term glory, or long-term payday?

I'd say that turning your back on your country for money or opportunity is pretty much the essence of being a traitor. I hope he gets gonorrhea in both his knees.

 

[eagles2007]

Shame we can't make Ronaldinho an American citizen by Thursday. I must have watched an hour of Brazil's game before realizing he wasn't on the field (or the team I found out today).

 

[Steve Tasker]

Shame we can't make Ronaldinho an American citizen by Thursday. I must have watched an hour of Brazil's game before realizing he wasn't on the field (or the team I found out today).

I wish it were that easy....we could import all the foreigners who aren't on their teams anymore!I forget what the exact rule is - hopefully someone can clarify it for me. A player can be capped in certain sanctioned friendly matches, but once they play in a game with some meaning, they're locked in for life? Is it ALL friendlies?IIRC, Jermaine Jones has a handful of caps with Germany, but they're all in meaningless friendlies, so he can come play for us.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

totally agree with the assessments of egypt strange things tend to happen in the third game of these tourneys though. if brazil and italy are both 2-0 and us and egypt are both 0-2, one of the 0-2 teams won't show up because they don't know how to play for pride. seems to happen all the time no one thought we would lose to ghana 3 years ago in germany, either.by the way: what moron assembled the brackets? I'd say the 2-5 teams are in the usa's bracket.

They aren't stupid, they want SA in round 2.

 

[Texas Football]

I'd say that turning your back on your country for money or opportunity is pretty much the essence of being a traitor. I hope he gets gonorrhea in both his knees.

I hope he wins Italy multiple Cups over the years to come. Hopefully scoring more than any other player in Italian history. It would be cool to see an Italian-American born in NJ lead them to glory.He would be wasted away at the USMNT playing for Chivas USA or some other 4th tier MLS squad. Different strokes.I also say Toni would be an improvement on any of the US strikers. 5 years ago he would have been loved by the now haters.Out of curiosity I will ask: Is there a single player on the USMNT that would make the Italian squad? Bench or otherwise.

 

[El Floppo]

Traitor? Seriously??Seems to me that criticizing/penalizing people for being proud of their heritage is pretty ####### un-AmericanCan we stop with the jingoistic myopia?Would it be great if Rossi had chosen to play for the US? Sure...Were any of you complaining when Freddy Adu was annointed as the next big thing?I doubt it...ETA: You know the "Miracle on Grass" in 1950 when we beat England? 3 of our starting 11 weren't born in the USThis is the nature of the sport

Jingoistic myopia? really?Nature of the sport aside- this is the first US born and raised player good enough to reverse commute. That makes him different and special and deserving to be called traitor and worse in my book. Not saying I blame him for going to his dad's team (didn't his dad play professionally in Italy?) or wanting to play on the team that gives him his best shot at winning a World Cup... well, alright- I am blaming him for the latter.And re: Freddy- I'm not from Ghana, so no complaints needed.

 

[El Floppo]

I know we've beaten the Rossi thing to death, but one thing that I thought about last night....I wonder if Rossi was worried about his club game taking a hit if he chose to play for the USA. Let's be honest....no US players have had really great, continued success at the top levels of European football. Ok...a couple of guys (Howard, Reyna, McBride) have had good success in England, but these guys aren't starring (anymore, at least) for United, or Liverpool, or Arsenal. They're not in Spain tearing it up for Madrid or Barca, they're not in Italy playing for Milan or Inter.Now, I'm not suggesting that Americans (plural) will never make a big impact on the truly big-name world stage. But they haven't yet, and it wouldn't surprise me if it takes a long, long time for that to be the case. Rossi doesn't have the time to wait another 20 years. If he wants a shot to play top-level European football for a team like, say, Villarreal....maybe in his mind he needs to be playing with the best players, against better competition, etc.I've played on some great premier league teams over the years, teams that played for the state cup and won international tournaments. And during those same summers, I'd play for the local club team, and we'd finish 10th place out of 12 in the area. I can honestly say that I played a hell of a lot better on the premier team....not because I wanted to play better, but because playing with that caliber of player, against quality competition, really does make you a better player. I wonder if Rossi consciously felt that...1. I can star for the US, and play for a good team overseas (think Everton, Fiorentina - 2nd tier teams in top leagues) and MAYBE have a shot at the real big timeor2. I can battle for a spot in Italy, against great players, against better teams, on the biggest stage of them all in Europe....Which one of those two gives the guy a better shot at long-term glory, or long-term payday?

I'd say that turning your back on your country for money or opportunity is pretty much the essence of being a traitor. I hope he gets gonorrhea in both his knees.

 

[El Floppo]

Shame we can't make Ronaldinho an American citizen by Thursday. I must have watched an hour of Brazil's game before realizing he wasn't on the field (or the team I found out today).

I wish it were that easy....we could import all the foreigners who aren't on their teams anymore!I forget what the exact rule is - hopefully someone can clarify it for me. A player can be capped in certain sanctioned friendly matches, but once they play in a game with some meaning, they're locked in for life? Is it ALL friendlies?IIRC, Jermaine Jones has a handful of caps with Germany, but they're all in meaningless friendlies, so he can come play for us.

The rule just changed. Used to be one cap with the senior team meant you were roped in... youth teams were different. Not sure what the new rule is exactly, but clearly opens things up for traitors like Jones (yes- he's a traitor to Germany... and yes, I'll be happy to get him if he's really that good).

 

[El Floppo]

totally agree with the assessments of egypt strange things tend to happen in the third game of these tourneys though. if brazil and italy are both 2-0 and us and egypt are both 0-2, one of the 0-2 teams won't show up because they don't know how to play for pride. seems to happen all the time no one thought we would lose to ghana 3 years ago in germany, either.by the way: what moron assembled the brackets? I'd say the 2-5 teams are in the usa's bracket.

They aren't stupid, they want SA in round 2.

Yeah- best chance for the home to:A- advance to the 2nd roundB- advance to the 2nd round while still getting to play the best team in the world (Spain) without really having to worry about the outcome. Although that 0-0 tie didn't help with B

 

[Ted Lange as your Bartender]

I was upset when Rossi chose to go to Italy over the US too. He really could have been the shot in the arm the sport needs in this country.

But to be fair, yes, he was born here, but from age 13 he has been training in Italy, schooled in the Italian system under Italian coaches in Italian academies. If he then decided, "Hey thanks for all the help Italy, I'm going to go play for the US now," they'd probably have stronger traitor arguments then we have now. As Tasker said, it's like the opposite of Freddy Adu - born in Ghana, but trained in the US. Adu really would have been a traitor if he played for Ghana after being trained in the US all his life.

I can't really begrudge Rossi for choosing Italy. FIFA eligibility rules are what they are, and playing for the Azzuri was his lifelong dream. I thought he'd get buried in their depth chart for years and ultimately regret his decision, but he made it, so good for him. That said, his first goal was an absolute dagger in my heart.

 

[El Floppo]

I was upset when Rossi chose to go to Italy over the US too. He really could have been the shot in the arm the sport needs in this country.But to be fair, yes, he was born here, but from age 13 he has been training in Italy, schooled in the Italian system under Italian coaches in Italian academies. If he then decided, "Hey thanks for all the help Italy, I'm going to go play for the US now," they'd probably have stronger traitor arguments then we have now. As Tasker said, it's like the opposite of Freddy Adu - born in Ghana, but trained in the US. Adu really would have been a traitor if he played for Ghana after being trained in the US all his life.I can't really begrudge Rossi for choosing Italy. FIFA eligibility rules are what they are, and playing for the Azzuri was his lifelong dream. I thought he'd get buried in their depth chart for years and ultimately regret his decision, but he made it, so good for him. That said, his first goal was an absolute dagger in my heart.

To be honest- this is a very and I agree with all of it.I still think he's a ####### traitor and wish somebody on the USMNT had picked up a yellow for giving him the business. That's how it's done in NJ.

 

[Ted Lange as your Bartender]

I was upset when Rossi chose to go to Italy over the US too. He really could have been the shot in the arm the sport needs in this country.But to be fair, yes, he was born here, but from age 13 he has been training in Italy, schooled in the Italian system under Italian coaches in Italian academies. If he then decided, "Hey thanks for all the help Italy, I'm going to go play for the US now," they'd probably have stronger traitor arguments then we have now. As Tasker said, it's like the opposite of Freddy Adu - born in Ghana, but trained in the US. Adu really would have been a traitor if he played for Ghana after being trained in the US all his life.I can't really begrudge Rossi for choosing Italy. FIFA eligibility rules are what they are, and playing for the Azzuri was his lifelong dream. I thought he'd get buried in their depth chart for years and ultimately regret his decision, but he made it, so good for him. That said, his first goal was an absolute dagger in my heart.

To be honest- this is a very and I agree with all of it.I still think he's a ####### traitor and wish somebody on the USMNT had picked up a yellow for giving him the business. That's how it's done in NJ.

They should've called Paulie Walnuts into the squad

 

[Mjolnirs]

US Open Cup 2nd round tonight. Eight matches with the winners each getting an MLS team in the next round.

The Charleston Battery are at Miami F.C. Blues tonight. The winner gets Chivas USA next.

Open Brackets again

 

[The Z Machine]

Yeah, maybe I'm posting w/o thinking everything through. Cherundolo has been hurt so much i forgot about him.

I think the mistake by Clark was egregious enough to warrant not playing in the starting 11 for a while. He did OK prior to that, but didn't add a whole lot on offense, or holding role. I hope that Jones locks up this position in the next year. Bradley is a lock now IMO, regardless of who is coaching. Dempsey leaves me puzzled, and honestly I think I might pull him for the Brazil game. His club success doesn't seem to translate to international success. Maybe he'd be better paired up top with Jozy? He's a good player that deserves a starting role, but his performances in the red white and blue leave a lot to be desired. When was the last time that the US had a right winger that did anything? LD was pretty non-existent too when he was placed along the right sideline. Don't make me long for Cobi Jones here people.

Yes, 'dolo is the best RB we have, but he's been so dinged for so long, and lord knows that he's showing his years. I think that's why Bradley opted for Wynne there 2 games ago... to try and see who would fill 'dolo's role when he's either retired or injured.

Spector looked MUCH better than Wynne, and DeMerit played only OK at CB. I'm not sold that he and Gooch have enough smarts not to get into trouble when playing against a good striker pairing, especially ones that will get into their heads.

Finally, the deepest position the US has is the central/attacking MF. LD, Adu, Bradley, Torres, Dempsey (as a second striker), and Sacha can all play that position to some degree. Too bad many of them have also sucked on the wing.