What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (4 Viewers)

prefontaine said:
Zigg said:
prefontaine said:
Here is the "goal" that sent France through
Click to expand...
That would be very tough for any ref to see. Tough luck for Eire.
Click to expand...
Don't agree here. The sideline official should be running to the line to make sure the ball does not cross. There is really no way you can't see this as the ball would have crossed the touchline without the hand ball that occurred several feet from his body. Henry was by himself so there should be little to no interfence unless you think Given standing there blocked his view. Frankly, I think this has to be one of the easiest calls in the box one can make given how often there is poor line of site.
Click to expand...
The absurd part of the entire thing is that both the linesman (who blew the offsides call) and the ref (who blew the handball call) both blew pretty obvious calls in the span of a second. There's really no excuse for either.
 
After the fact, FIFA finally decides to investigate Egypt's poor security for their game against Algeria (not the one yesterday, the one last Saturday)

Linky

Aha, now fifa has mentioned Henry copping to handling the ball in their right up - in a totally "oh by the way" fashion:

The key moment

After 180 hard-fought minutes, the fate of both teams was decided by a moment of drama in extra time when Gallas bundled the ball home to win the match for Les Bleus after being set up by Thierry Henry, who later admitted that he had handled in the build-up.

Yet, depsite the goal, the outcome remained in the balance until the very last second, and when the final whistle was blown the disappointed Irish could hold their heads up high.
Click to expand...
Linky here:Right hereStill no mention of the Irish protest anywhere on the site of course, although FIFA has announced there will be no replay due to Law 5 (which as mentioned above they breezily discarded in 2006 when it suited them).

-QG

 
prefontaine said:
Mjolnirs said:
I don't think his post is arrogant, just a different perspective from a different history.
Click to expand...
You guys are right that the last post isn't. But I was really working off of the 4 before that. But I don't disagree that I may have been a bit harsh. It just gets a little annoying to keep harping on American fans for worrying about the draw. It's simply huge to us and that has to be obvious.
Click to expand...
None of the posts were meant to come across as arrogant. Just stating my feelings toward the whole draw system and I don't see how being American or Dutch has anything to do with it. In other news, the US plays a friendly against us in Holland in March next year. Let's hope it's a preview of things to come in the summer. :wub:
 
Whiplash Inc. said:
prefontaine said:
Mjolnirs said:
I don't think his post is arrogant, just a different perspective from a different history.
Click to expand...
You guys are right that the last post isn't. But I was really working off of the 4 before that. But I don't disagree that I may have been a bit harsh. It just gets a little annoying to keep harping on American fans for worrying about the draw. It's simply huge to us and that has to be obvious.
Click to expand...
None of the posts were meant to come across as arrogant. Just stating my feelings toward the whole draw system and I don't see how being American or Dutch has anything to do with it. In other news, the US plays a friendly against us in Holland in March next year. Let's hope it's a preview of things to come in the summer. :goodposting:
Click to expand...
No worries. The difference is that the Dutch obviously have different goals than the Americans. What we would consider to be an exceedingly successful tournament is one where we make it to the knock out stages. Obviously the Netherlands rightfully has higher goals and that includes winning the tournament. If you think you have a legitimate shot to win the tournament then it is much easier to say the draw doesn't matter. Frankly, I really can't imagine a draw that the Dutch won't be a favorite to advance out of. There is simply too much talent there. For the US, it's a totally different story. The way the pots appear to be drawn, we will be extremely lucky to advance and I think that is a shame because I think we are right on the cusp of being a top 16 side. If we can advance a few cups in a row, we can begin to make a legitimate argument to be a seed, which of course perpetuates itself. In many ways, the US would be better off as a UEFA side because we would not be guaranteed a seed and a UEFA team. Of course, we'd also have to fight for qualificaion. Anyway, the difference is all in the draw.
 
prefontaine said:
Whiplash Inc. said:
prefontaine said:
Mjolnirs said:
I don't think his post is arrogant, just a different perspective from a different history.
Click to expand...
You guys are right that the last post isn't. But I was really working off of the 4 before that. But I don't disagree that I may have been a bit harsh. It just gets a little annoying to keep harping on American fans for worrying about the draw. It's simply huge to us and that has to be obvious.
Click to expand...
None of the posts were meant to come across as arrogant. Just stating my feelings toward the whole draw system and I don't see how being American or Dutch has anything to do with it. In other news, the US plays a friendly against us in Holland in March next year. Let's hope it's a preview of things to come in the summer. :confused:
Click to expand...
No worries. The difference is that the Dutch obviously have different goals than the Americans. What we would consider to be an exceedingly successful tournament is one where we make it to the knock out stages. Obviously the Netherlands rightfully has higher goals and that includes winning the tournament. If you think you have a legitimate shot to win the tournament then it is much easier to say the draw doesn't matter. Frankly, I really can't imagine a draw that the Dutch won't be a favorite to advance out of. There is simply too much talent there. For the US, it's a totally different story. The way the pots appear to be drawn, we will be extremely lucky to advance and I think that is a shame because I think we are right on the cusp of being a top 16 side. If we can advance a few cups in a row, we can begin to make a legitimate argument to be a seed, which of course perpetuates itself. In many ways, the US would be better off as a UEFA side because we would not be guaranteed a seed and a UEFA team. Of course, we'd also have to fight for qualificaion. Anyway, the difference is all in the draw.
Click to expand...
I think the US would indeed benefit a great deal for being in a tougher qualifying conference.As far as Holland is concerned....I'm confident in that we can defeat any of the favorites, but we lack a strong enough defense to go all the way. A bit premature for a prognosis without knowing our group and who we might play after that, but I don't see us getting further than the quarterfinals with this group of players. Hope I'm wrong of course.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
serious question

is what france did cheating? In most situations would the player call his own hand ball? I just am not sure of the unwritten rules of soccer.

 
Bonzai said:
B-Deep said:
serious questionis what france did cheating? In most situations would the player call his own hand ball? I just am not sure of the unwritten rules of soccer.
Click to expand...
No.
Click to expand...
okis it simiar to TO trapping the ball for a TD and it getting called a reception?That's the analogy I came up with, he knows he did not catch the ball, the ref calls a TD, no way does he say..."Sorry, i trapped it"
 
B-Deep said:
Bonzai said:
B-Deep said:
serious questionis what france did cheating? In most situations would the player call his own hand ball? I just am not sure of the unwritten rules of soccer.
Click to expand...
No.
Click to expand...
okis it simiar to TO trapping the ball for a TD and it getting called a reception?That's the analogy I came up with, he knows he did not catch the ball, the ref calls a TD, no way does he say..."Sorry, i trapped it"
Click to expand...
It's similar, but I'd say what Henry did was worse. Still, no one expects him to "turn himself in" after the play.
 
Looks like a new betting scandal is coming up, but this time it could have also affected international competitions. From what I read quiet a few kosovars had been arrested

Football Betting Scandal

Prosecutors Say up to 200 Matches Were Fixed

link

Prosecutors in Germany have revealed the scope of the match-fixing scandal that has shocked European football. Around 200 games are suspected of having been fixed, with more than 30 of those played in Germany.

European football is reeling from news of a fresh match-fixing scandal involving nine countries and up to 200 games.

German prosecutors investigating the manipulation revealed on Friday that 15 people have been arrested in Germany and two in Switzerland. A series of around 50 raids were carried out on Thursday, during which documents, around €1 million in cash and valuables were seized.

At a news conference the prosecutors said that about 200 games were thought to be affected, including three Champions League games and 12 Europa League games. The investigation, carried out with the European football association UEFA, has been ongoing since the beginning of 2009.

The betting scandal involves huge sums of money placed with Asian bookmakers on matches in Europe and players, coaches, referees and officials are included among the suspects. In all around 100 people could be involved in the match-fixing conspiracy.

Fix On in Germany as Well?

Games in at least nine European leagues are being probed, including matches played in Germany, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, Hungary, Slovenia, Switzerland and Turkey.

On Thursday Harald Stenger, spokesman for the German Football Federation (DFB), said: "The UEFA and DFB early warning system for the overseeing of the betting markets had not given any indications of match-fixing in Germany."

However, on Friday the prosecutors said that 32 games in Germany alone are suspected of having been fixed. There are indications that four games in the second league, three from the third league and 18 from regional leagues are tainted, as well as matches in the youth leagues and international competitions.

Thursday's arrests included two Croatian brothers, Ante and Milan Sapina, who were at the center of a previous match-fixing scandal in Germany in 2004. That case saw referee Robert Hoyzer sentenced to two years and five months in prison after he admitted to accepting bribes to manipulate games.
Click to expand...
 
Bonzai said:
B-Deep said:
Bonzai said:
B-Deep said:
serious questionis what france did cheating? In most situations would the player call his own hand ball? I just am not sure of the unwritten rules of soccer.
Click to expand...
No.
Click to expand...
okis it simiar to TO trapping the ball for a TD and it getting called a reception?That's the analogy I came up with, he knows he did not catch the ball, the ref calls a TD, no way does he say..."Sorry, i trapped it"
Click to expand...
It's similar, but I'd say what Henry did was worse. Still, no one expects him to "turn himself in" after the play.
Click to expand...
Trapping a ball and then pretending it was a catch in football is slightly different, because the player was presumably trying to actually catch the ball and did not intentionally violate the rule (but did feign a catch to intentionally mislead the referee). However, I think a Henry / Maradonna style goal-scoring handball is comparable to many common experiences we have in football, baseball and basketball here in the US.
 
Henry now backing calls to replay the game.

"Naturally I feel embarrassed at the way that we won and feel extremely sorry for the Irish who definitely deserve to be in South Africa," said Henry. "Of course the fairest solution would be to replay the game but it is not in my control.''

 
prefontaine said:
Henry now backing calls to replay the game.

"Naturally I feel embarrassed at the way that we won and feel extremely sorry for the Irish who definitely deserve to be in South Africa," said Henry. "Of course the fairest solution would be to replay the game but it is not in my control.''
Click to expand...
It should be noted he released this AFTER FIFA announced that there would be no replay.If the pressure somehow builds and a replay occurs, I predict the game will start with the score France 1 Ireland 0 (that is basically as if the protested game never happened).

Btw, gotta love FIFA with the December 2nd seed release. When France get their inevitable seed it'll be considered too late to complain about it :D

-QG

 
B-Deep said:
Bonzai said:
B-Deep said:
serious questionis what france did cheating? In most situations would the player call his own hand ball? I just am not sure of the unwritten rules of soccer.
Click to expand...
No.
Click to expand...
okis it simiar to TO trapping the ball for a TD and it getting called a reception?That's the analogy I came up with, he knows he did not catch the ball, the ref calls a TD, no way does he say..."Sorry, i trapped it"
Click to expand...
Exactly. It is just like getting away with any other penalty that should be called. Pushing off of the DB to catch a touchdown pass does not mean the WR cheated, just like controlling the ball with the hand isn't cheating. It is illegal, but illegal doesn't equal cheating.
 
Desert_Power said:
B-Deep said:
Bonzai said:
B-Deep said:
serious question

is what france did cheating? In most situations would the player call his own hand ball? I just am not sure of the unwritten rules of soccer.
Click to expand...
No.
Click to expand...
okis it simiar to TO trapping the ball for a TD and it getting called a reception?

That's the analogy I came up with, he knows he did not catch the ball, the ref calls a TD, no way does he say...

"Sorry, i trapped it"
Click to expand...
Exactly. It is just like getting away with any other penalty that should be called. Pushing off of the DB to catch a touchdown pass does not mean the WR cheated, just like controlling the ball with the hand isn't cheating. It is illegal, but illegal doesn't equal cheating.
Click to expand...
Other than the fact that that's exactly what it means.
 
Christo said:
Desert_Power said:
B-Deep said:
Bonzai said:
B-Deep said:
serious question

is what france did cheating? In most situations would the player call his own hand ball? I just am not sure of the unwritten rules of soccer.
Click to expand...
No.
Click to expand...
okis it simiar to TO trapping the ball for a TD and it getting called a reception?

That's the analogy I came up with, he knows he did not catch the ball, the ref calls a TD, no way does he say...

"Sorry, i trapped it"
Click to expand...
Exactly. It is just like getting away with any other penalty that should be called. Pushing off of the DB to catch a touchdown pass does not mean the WR cheated, just like controlling the ball with the hand isn't cheating. It is illegal, but illegal doesn't equal cheating.
Click to expand...
Other than the fact that that's exactly what it means.
Click to expand...
Maybe to you, I don't refer to players commiting penalties that aren't called as cheaters particularly when they do so without forethought in a reactionary manner.
 
Desert_Power said:
Maybe to you, I don't refer to players commiting penalties that aren't called as cheaters particularly when they do so without forethought in a reactionary manner.
Click to expand...
I'm a big Henry fan but I simply don't buy that this was reactionary. I've played a lot and when I have ever accidentally touched the ball with my hand that clearly affected play my first reaction is to throw my hands up and almost stop play. Certainly it wouldn't be to hit it again towards my foot and then play a pass to another player. Did he deliberate before using his hands? Of course not as there simply wasn't time to consider the consequences of his actions. However, clearly he purposefully used his hands to control the ball and that is simply not reactionary for a footballer. Whether that constitutes cheating is in the eye of the beholder but it is clearly questionable behavior.
 
prefontaine said:
Desert_Power said:
Maybe to you, I don't refer to players commiting penalties that aren't called as cheaters particularly when they do so without forethought in a reactionary manner.
Click to expand...
I'm a big Henry fan but I simply don't buy that this was reactionary. I've played a lot and when I have ever accidentally touched the ball with my hand that clearly affected play my first reaction is to throw my hands up and almost stop play. Certainly it wouldn't be to hit it again towards my foot and then play a pass to another player. Did he deliberate before using his hands? Of course not as there simply wasn't time to consider the consequences of his actions. However, clearly he purposefully used his hands to control the ball and that is simply not reactionary for a footballer. Whether that constitutes cheating is in the eye of the beholder but it is clearly questionable behavior.
Click to expand...
I'll preface this by saying that Henry is one of the main reasons that I became a fan of soccer in the first place.However, he deliberately used his hand to control the ball which directly resulted in his team scoring a goal. There are some semantics being thrown around in here, and while I wouldn't brand him a cheater in general.... he clearly cheated on that play.
 
Desert_Power said:
Maybe to you, I don't refer to players commiting penalties that aren't called as cheaters particularly when they do so without forethought in a reactionary manner.
Click to expand...
Are you saying the distinction you are making is based upon whether the illegal act was called?And I agree with pre, there's no way Henry didn't know what he was doing.

 
I found one good thing about having a six month old that's up for breakfast at 6:30 a.m. There shouldn't be a problem with being awake to watch the Liverpool-Man City game live in the morning.

 
Updated FIFA rankings.

1 Spain

2 Brazil

3 Netherlands

4 Italy

5 Portugal

6 Germany

7 France

8 Argentina

9 England

10 Croatia

11 Cameroon

12 Greece

13 Russia

14 USA

15 Mexico

16 Ivory Coast

17 Chile

18 Switzerland

19 Uruguay

20 Serbia

21 Australia

22 Nigeria

23 Czech Republic

24 Ukraine

25 Israel

 
Whiplash Inc. said:
Updated FIFA rankings.

1 Spain

2 Brazil

3 Netherlands

4 Italy

5 Portugal

6 Germany

7 France

8 Argentina

9 England

10 Croatia

11 Cameroon

12 Greece

13 Russia

14 USA

15 Mexico

16 Ivory Coast

17 Chile

18 Switzerland

19 Uruguay

20 Serbia

21 Australia

22 Nigeria

23 Czech Republic

24 Ukraine

25 Israel
Click to expand...
Croatia and Russia are the only top 20 teams that didn´t qualify :goodposting:
 
From goal.com

Euro 2012 seeding:

With Poland and Ukraine qualifying automatically for the finals as co-hosts, the other 51 of UEFA's 53 member national associations will be allocated to six pots in accordance with their rankings. The qualifying draw will determine the make-up of six groups of six teams and three groups of five.

Euro 2012 qualifying seedings:

Pot One: Spain, Germany, Holland, Italy, England, Croatia, Portugal, France, Russia.

Pot Two: Greece, Czech Republic, Sweden, Switzerland, Serbia, Turkey, Denmark, Slovakia, Romania.

Pot Three: Israel, Bulgaria, Finland, Norway, Republic of Ireland, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Austria, Bosnia-Herzegovina.

Pot Four: Slovenia, Latvia, Hungary, Lithuania, Belarus, Belgium, Wales, FYR Macedonia, Cyprus.

Pot Five: Montenegro, Albania, Estonia, Georgia, Moldova, Iceland, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Liechtenstein.

Pot Six: Azerbaijan, Luxembourg, Malta, Faroe Islands, Andorra, San Marino.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

El Floppo
Official US Women's soccer thread: ***Update- Christen Press retires
70 71 72
Replies
4K
Views
291K
El Floppo
El Floppo
SIDA!
The Official Thread for Official Threads - MASTER LIST
Replies
1
Views
436
mquinnjr
mquinnjr
Ramsay Hunt Experience
***Official Soccer Discussion Thread***
1020 1021 1022
Replies
51K
Views
1M
titusbramble
titusbramble

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 4 (members: 0, guests: 4)
Back
Top