***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (1 Viewer)

[Christo]

Watching Germany/Canada Women's World Cup. It's not just the German men - the German women have sublime touch. Absolutely subime. I realize how much bigger/faster/stronger the men are compared to the women, but if you could normalize for that, this German women's team looks more skilled than the US men's team. They just always seem to hit teammates in perfect stride with every...single...pass. They just manage to create space with passing relentlessly.

Finding individual talents like Pele or Kaka or Ronaldihno is a crap shoot, obviously. And the greatest athletes in those countries gravitate towards soccer. But appears from watching Germany, men and women alike, that you can teach touch. How do they do it?

I had a bunch of friends go over and play in Germany, at various levels. Mostly 2nd and 3rd Divisions, but one guy ended up playing for Hamburg.They all said the same thing about Germans (caveat- this was back in the late 80s, early 90s)- every guy could do the basics perfectly, both with the ball and tactically. It was like they were just drilled over and over and over and over (imagine Drago's training, or the movie Ants). But that was practically the extent of what they could do; they were automatons without any real thought or creativity. And the German national team and league definitely stagnated, IMO, during and after those years. Things have obviously changed in the last decade, as there a bunch of talented, creative young players coming out of th Bundesliga- I figure they, like so many other countries (ours included, if I'm hearing right from parents of youth players), have been trying to incorporate more creativity along with the rote exercises of trapping, kicking, running, etc.

I wonder if some of this is related to the influx of immigrants over the last 20-30 years? They didn't have players like Ozil (Turkey), Aogo (Nigeria) & Gomez (Spain) on their national team 10 years ago.

 

[guru_007]

congrats floppo

Influx of immigrants (as well as the easing of stringent restrictions for German national side) has definitely helped both the German mens and women's team immensely.

US was flat out out played by the Mexican team. Mexico has more talent in the attack, they are younger, faster, and it showed. I'm not gonna rip guys like Howard and Dempsey apart for having less than stellar games. But, imo, Mexico is a team on the rise on the national level and the US has kinda flat lined and may even be on the decline. They are an older side and I don't see huge talent in the pipeline tbh. Was a pretty entertaining game, that goal by dos santos was just effing brilliant.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Johnny B... I mentioned already that I thought he looked ok once he caught the pace of the game in the 2nd half. I wonder if playing in Mexico is helping him (and provoking Bradley to insert him) against those players. But that first half was typical Bornstein- no sense at all of where the players are around him as he ball watches and follows the ball physically into the middle, allowing players to constantly find the space behind him. Amateurish, in that regard.

Bornstein's performance was beyond abysmal and laughably bad. 3 of the 4 goals came from his side. And at least 2 of those goals were created almost entirely due to his poor defending. At no point in the match did he look ok and while this is a team loss, he was by far the weakest link. And the wonder goal by Gio was a clinic of bad defense. It was a world class chip but defenders were either standing around and watching or literally running away from him. It was shameful defending.

 

[Pope Benedict XVI Fan]

Watching Germany/Canada Women's World Cup. It's not just the German men - the German women have sublime touch. Absolutely subime. I realize how much bigger/faster/stronger the men are compared to the women, but if you could normalize for that, this German women's team looks more skilled than the US men's team. They just always seem to hit teammates in perfect stride with every...single...pass. They just manage to create space with passing relentlessly.

Finding individual talents like Pele or Kaka or Ronaldihno is a crap shoot, obviously. And the greatest athletes in those countries gravitate towards soccer. But appears from watching Germany, men and women alike, that you can teach touch. How do they do it?

I had a bunch of friends go over and play in Germany, at various levels. Mostly 2nd and 3rd Divisions, but one guy ended up playing for Hamburg.They all said the same thing about Germans (caveat- this was back in the late 80s, early 90s)- every guy could do the basics perfectly, both with the ball and tactically. It was like they were just drilled over and over and over and over (imagine Drago's training, or the movie Ants). But that was practically the extent of what they could do; they were automatons without any real thought or creativity. And the German national team and league definitely stagnated, IMO, during and after those years. Things have obviously changed in the last decade, as there a bunch of talented, creative young players coming out of th Bundesliga- I figure they, like so many other countries (ours included, if I'm hearing right from parents of youth players), have been trying to incorporate more creativity along with the rote exercises of trapping, kicking, running, etc.

I wonder if some of this is related to the influx of immigrants over the last 20-30 years? They didn't have players like Ozil (Turkey), Aogo (Nigeria) & Gomez (Spain) on their national team 10 years ago.

But equally players like Marin, Schweinsteiger, Kroos, Götze and so on.Germany has always produced highly technical, creative players (Netzer, Scholl, Häßler, Littbarski etc.) they just had a down period 2000-2005 or so. It happens, even Brazil have sent some pretty ordinary teams to the World Cup.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

I really would love to follow the game more than World Cup and associated tourneys, but having no team/no rooting interest makes it tough to follow the Euro leagues. I'd give MLS a try if I ever had any idea when and where they were playing, it was on TV, when the season ran, etc. I see highlights of the Pacific NW and rhe crowds are impressive.

If the MLS doesnt speak to you, try picking an English team - you can watch them in the Priemer League (in English) and possibly the Champions League if theyre in this years tournament. Thats what did it for me when I first got into the game. Following the Champions league is the best way to learn about world soccer IMO.

+1. Just pick a team and go with it. If Raider Nation can be a Yankees/Bruins/Lakers fan or whatever, you can be a Spurs or Chelsea fan.

 

[Steve Tasker]

I really would love to follow the game more than World Cup and associated tourneys, but having no team/no rooting interest makes it tough to follow the Euro leagues. I'd give MLS a try if I ever had any idea when and where they were playing, it was on TV, when the season ran, etc. I see highlights of the Pacific NW and rhe crowds are impressive.

If the MLS doesnt speak to you, try picking an English team - you can watch them in the Priemer League (in English) and possibly the Champions League if theyre in this years tournament. Thats what did it for me when I first got into the game. Following the Champions league is the best way to learn about world soccer IMO.

+1. Just pick a team and go with it. If Raider Nation can be a Yankees/Bruins/Lakers fan or whatever, you can be a Spurs or Chelsea fan.

How does that guy have time to watch sports? I thought he spent all day....you know...

 

[Moe.]

I really would love to follow the game more than World Cup and associated tourneys, but having no team/no rooting interest makes it tough to follow the Euro leagues. I'd give MLS a try if I ever had any idea when and where they were playing, it was on TV, when the season ran, etc. I see highlights of the Pacific NW and rhe crowds are impressive.

If the MLS doesnt speak to you, try picking an English team - you can watch them in the Priemer League (in English) and possibly the Champions League if theyre in this years tournament. Thats what did it for me when I first got into the game. Following the Champions league is the best way to learn about world soccer IMO.

+1. Just pick a team and go with it. If Raider Nation can be a Yankees/Bruins/Lakers fan or whatever, you can be a Spurs or Chelsea fan.

How does that guy have time to watch sports? I thought he spent all day....you know...

Watching The Sopranos?

 

[GoFishTN]

I really would love to follow the game more than World Cup and associated tourneys, but having no team/no rooting interest makes it tough to follow the Euro leagues. I'd give MLS a try if I ever had any idea when and where they were playing, it was on TV, when the season ran, etc. I see highlights of the Pacific NW and rhe crowds are impressive.

You can join us watching the EPL Saturday and Sunday mornings starting 8/13. Pick any team except for ManU, Chelsea, Man City

I think Christo left out Everton. And possibly Spurs. But I think everybody laughs at Spurs, so there's no reason to even mention them.

 

[El Floppo]

Johnny B... I mentioned already that I thought he looked ok once he caught the pace of the game in the 2nd half. I wonder if playing in Mexico is helping him (and provoking Bradley to insert him) against those players. But that first half was typical Bornstein- no sense at all of where the players are around him as he ball watches and follows the ball physically into the middle, allowing players to constantly find the space behind him. Amateurish, in that regard.

Bornstein's performance was beyond abysmal and laughably bad. 3 of the 4 goals came from his side. And at least 2 of those goals were created almost entirely due to his poor defending. At no point in the match did he look ok and while this is a team loss, he was by far the weakest link. And the wonder goal by Gio was a clinic of bad defense. It was a world class chip but defenders were either standing around and watching or literally running away from him. It was shameful defending.

TOtally disagree with the bolded. I loathe Bornstein, but he played an average/ok game for the final 35 minutes of the 2nd half, as I mentioned originally. He got forward well and had decent final balls into the box. He was at a loss with the ball at feet if not driving down the wing for those crosses, but he wasn't alone there. He also actually defended ok in that stretch, without his typically shambolic positioning and winning more than his share of 1v1s. And he showed his pace, which is *ok*.

Maybe I'm just responding to your hypberole, which is a form of commentary I usually dislike. But discount his typical howlers that gave Mexico those easier scoring chances (chances which they'd been creating all game, btw) and goals in the first half (and was he responsible for the go-ahead goal? I don't really remember it too clearly, happened so bang-bang with what seemed like very little defense from anybody on the US), and I'd rate his overall game as average, or *ok*. Include those, and he was horrible. But I didn't in my original commentary.

The Gio goal was a fantastic diagonal run by him (which the Mexicans were doing all night), and great feed by whoever gave it to him. The US was stuck out a little, IIRC, with the MFs having worked their asses off and giving up space as they tried to push forward for the tie-ing goal. And IIRC, Goodson got caught really flat-footed as Gio ran by him. But Howard needed to come off his line there, IMO, or risk giving Gio both sides of the goal at his disposal. HOwards' scrambling around on the ground was as much as testament to Gio's touch in tight quarters on that play as anything else (although I do admit I expected Howard to get to his feet faster/earlier). Pretty sure there were Mexican runners hitting the box, so not every defender could or was even supposed to close on Gio there and the rest were trying to stop him without risking the PK. He just danced around the guys near him and hit that sublime chip.

I'm too tired to know whether I"m agreeing or disagreeing with you right now about that. I think it's the latter.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

I really would love to follow the game more than World Cup and associated tourneys, but having no team/no rooting interest makes it tough to follow the Euro leagues. I'd give MLS a try if I ever had any idea when and where they were playing, it was on TV, when the season ran, etc. I see highlights of the Pacific NW and rhe crowds are impressive.

If the MLS doesnt speak to you, try picking an English team - you can watch them in the Priemer League (in English) and possibly the Champions League if theyre in this years tournament. Thats what did it for me when I first got into the game. Following the Champions league is the best way to learn about world soccer IMO.

+1. Just pick a team and go with it. If Raider Nation can be a Yankees/Bruins/Lakers fan or whatever, you can be a Spurs or Chelsea fan.

How does that guy have time to watch sports? I thought he spent all day....you know...

In other news: River, wait.

 

[El Floppo]

River Plate relegated! Imagine a team like Manchester United going down... that's basically what this is like. And from my limited understanding of Argentinian relegation- this is even worse. As I understand it, teams aren't relegated for their results over one season... it's something like an aggregate of the previous 3. So River didn't just suck for one year and unluckily go down- they super-sucked it over three. Wow.

Associated PressBUENOS AIRES, Argentina -- Historic soccer team River Plate was relegated to the Argentine second division for the first time in its 110-year existence Sunday, sparking riots between police and fans with dozens injured inside and outside Monumental Stadium.

 

[PIK95]

I really would love to follow the game more than World Cup and associated tourneys, but having no team/no rooting interest makes it tough to follow the Euro leagues. I'd give MLS a try if I ever had any idea when and where they were playing, it was on TV, when the season ran, etc. I see highlights of the Pacific NW and rhe crowds are impressive.

You can join us watching the EPL Saturday and Sunday mornings starting 8/13. Pick any team except for ManU, Chelsea, Man City

I think Christo left out Everton. And possibly Spurs. But I think everybody laughs at Spurs, so there's no reason to even mention them.

My six year old has a Spurs flag over his bed. He also says Luca Modric is one of the best players in the world and they "better not sell Gareth Bale!" I am a Liverpool fan myself but it's cool to see him go his own way on that. We are both Red Sox fans though. I took him to see Spain-USA and we are going to see Man U and Revs in a week or two. He loves it.

 

[PIK95]

congrats floppo Influx of immigrants (as well as the easing of stringent restrictions for German national side) has definitely helped both the German mens and women's team immensely. US was flat out out played by the Mexican team. Mexico has more talent in the attack, they are younger, faster, and it showed. I'm not gonna rip guys like Howard and Dempsey apart for having less than stellar games. But, imo, Mexico is a team on the rise on the national level and the US has kinda flat lined and may even be on the decline. They are an older side and I don't see huge talent in the pipeline tbh. Was a pretty entertaining game, that goal by dos santos was just effing brilliant.

I think Mexico will be a top five favorite by Vegas come next World cup. They are so good.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

River Plate relegated! Imagine a team like Manchester United going down... that's basically what this is like. And from my limited understanding of Argentinian relegation- this is even worse. As I understand it, teams aren't relegated for their results over one season... it's something like an aggregate of the previous 3. So River didn't just suck for one year and unluckily go down- they super-sucked it over three. Wow.

Associated PressBUENOS AIRES, Argentina -- Historic soccer team River Plate was relegated to the Argentine second division for the first time in its 110-year existence Sunday, sparking riots between police and fans with dozens injured inside and outside Monumental Stadium.

This site ranks the top clubs from 1991-2009 and has River at 9th in the world, and #1 outside of Europe.http://www.iffhs.de/?3d4d443d0b803e8b40384c00205fdcdc3bfcdc0aec70aeedbe1a

 

[El Floppo]

River Plate relegated! Imagine a team like Manchester United going down... that's basically what this is like. And from my limited understanding of Argentinian relegation- this is even worse. As I understand it, teams aren't relegated for their results over one season... it's something like an aggregate of the previous 3. So River didn't just suck for one year and unluckily go down- they super-sucked it over three. Wow.

Associated PressBUENOS AIRES, Argentina -- Historic soccer team River Plate was relegated to the Argentine second division for the first time in its 110-year existence Sunday, sparking riots between police and fans with dozens injured inside and outside Monumental Stadium.

This site ranks the top clubs from 1991-2009 and has River at 9th in the world, and #1 outside of Europe.http://www.iffhs.de/?3d4d443d0b803e8b40384c00205fdcdc3bfcdc0aec70aeedbe1a

 

[El Floppo]

congrats floppo Influx of immigrants (as well as the easing of stringent restrictions for German national side) has definitely helped both the German mens and women's team immensely. US was flat out out played by the Mexican team. Mexico has more talent in the attack, they are younger, faster, and it showed. I'm not gonna rip guys like Howard and Dempsey apart for having less than stellar games. But, imo, Mexico is a team on the rise on the national level and the US has kinda flat lined and may even be on the decline. They are an older side and I don't see huge talent in the pipeline tbh. Was a pretty entertaining game, that goal by dos santos was just effing brilliant.

I think Mexico will be a top five favorite by Vegas come next World cup. They are so good.

My knee-jerk reaction is no freaking way. They're good, but with holes, particularly defensively.But then again, this is basically the core group from the u17 world champions... so perhaps their time finally has come? And can they actually win an elimination game in the WC?But yeah- this team is very good. But also matches up very well against this US team- better than they did against Honduras or even Guatemala.

 

[PIK95]

congrats floppo Influx of immigrants (as well as the easing of stringent restrictions for German national side) has definitely helped both the German mens and women's team immensely. US was flat out out played by the Mexican team. Mexico has more talent in the attack, they are younger, faster, and it showed. I'm not gonna rip guys like Howard and Dempsey apart for having less than stellar games. But, imo, Mexico is a team on the rise on the national level and the US has kinda flat lined and may even be on the decline. They are an older side and I don't see huge talent in the pipeline tbh. Was a pretty entertaining game, that goal by dos santos was just effing brilliant.

I think Mexico will be a top five favorite by Vegas come next World cup. They are so good.

My knee-jerk reaction is no freaking way. They're good, but with holes, particularly defensively.But then again, this is basically the core group from the u17 world champions... so perhaps their time finally has come? And can they actually win an elimination game in the WC?But yeah- this team is very good. But also matches up very well against this US team- better than they did against Honduras or even Guatemala.

That u17 group really opened my eyes.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

congrats floppo Influx of immigrants (as well as the easing of stringent restrictions for German national side) has definitely helped both the German mens and women's team immensely. US was flat out out played by the Mexican team. Mexico has more talent in the attack, they are younger, faster, and it showed. I'm not gonna rip guys like Howard and Dempsey apart for having less than stellar games. But, imo, Mexico is a team on the rise on the national level and the US has kinda flat lined and may even be on the decline. They are an older side and I don't see huge talent in the pipeline tbh. Was a pretty entertaining game, that goal by dos santos was just effing brilliant.

I think Mexico will be a top five favorite by Vegas come next World cup. They are so good.

My knee-jerk reaction is no freaking way. They're good, but with holes, particularly defensively.But then again, this is basically the core group from the u17 world champions... so perhaps their time finally has come? And can they actually win an elimination game in the WC?But yeah- this team is very good. But also matches up very well against this US team- better than they did against Honduras or even Guatemala.

Good enough to take a flyer on at 33-1, right?

 

[bosoxs45]

I really would love to follow the game more than World Cup and associated tourneys, but having no team/no rooting interest makes it tough to follow the Euro leagues. I'd give MLS a try if I ever had any idea when and where they were playing, it was on TV, when the season ran, etc. I see highlights of the Pacific NW and rhe crowds are impressive.

You can join us watching the EPL Saturday and Sunday mornings starting 8/13. Pick any team except for ManU, Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal.

I enjoyed rooting for Reading a while back (07?)during a few a occasional matches. Were they bumped down?

 

[The Gator]

Finished the Germany game...two of the best goals I've seen in a while...tough pull for the US next round

Also, the Ivory Coast / Brasil game was great. 3-3 with Brasil scoring in the 93rd to tie it.

 

[El Floppo]

I really would love to follow the game more than World Cup and associated tourneys, but having no team/no rooting interest makes it tough to follow the Euro leagues. I'd give MLS a try if I ever had any idea when and where they were playing, it was on TV, when the season ran, etc. I see highlights of the Pacific NW and rhe crowds are impressive.

You can join us watching the EPL Saturday and Sunday mornings starting 8/13. Pick any team except for ManU, Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal.

I enjoyed rooting for Reading a while back (07?)during a few a occasional matches. Were they bumped down?

Yes.For a feel-good underdog, how about QPR?Or you can route for teams with Americans on them, which is pretty much what I do (although I'll watch any team): Bolton and Fulham at this point (Everton if watching a GK is enough for you).Spurs a fun, out of the elite but still really good trying to be elite team worth watching with a good crop of young players that hopefully stay.

 

[Native]

 

[Native]

Also, while were on the subject of River Plate, how many of their big stars will be making moves to Europe this summer? Sadly, the team will be pillaged much the same way that the hooliogans looted downtown Buenos Aires.

Current Roster

 

[The Gator]

Also, while were on the subject of River Plate, how many of their big stars will be making moves to Europe this summer? Sadly, the team will be pillaged much the same way that the hooliogans looted downtown Buenos Aires.

Current Roster

Erik Lamela was a beast on FM 11 Liverpool team

 

[Native]

Also, while were on the subject of River Plate, how many of their big stars will be making moves to Europe this summer? Sadly, the team will be pillaged much the same way that the hooliogans looted downtown Buenos Aires.

Current Roster

Erik Lamela was a beast on FM 11 Liverpool team

Hes one of the only guys from River thats been called up to the National Team in the last several months. Still just a kid I believe.

 

[bosoxs45]

I really would love to follow the game more than World Cup and associated tourneys, but having no team/no rooting interest makes it tough to follow the Euro leagues. I'd give MLS a try if I ever had any idea when and where they were playing, it was on TV, when the season ran, etc. I see highlights of the Pacific NW and rhe crowds are impressive.

You can join us watching the EPL Saturday and Sunday mornings starting 8/13. Pick any team except for ManU, Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal.

I enjoyed rooting for Reading a while back (07?)during a few a occasional matches. Were they bumped down?

Yes.For a feel-good underdog, how about QPR?Or you can route for teams with Americans on them, which is pretty much what I do (although I'll watch any team): Bolton and Fulham at this point (Everton if watching a GK is enough for you).Spurs a fun, out of the elite but still really good trying to be elite team worth watching with a good crop of young players that hopefully stay.

Cool,thanks for the information El Floppo+Tasker.

 

[Slapdash]

River Plate relegated! Imagine a team like Manchester United going down... that's basically what this is like. And from my limited understanding of Argentinian relegation- this is even worse. As I understand it, teams aren't relegated for their results over one season... it's something like an aggregate of the previous 3. So River didn't just suck for one year and unluckily go down- they super-sucked it over three. Wow.

Associated PressBUENOS AIRES, Argentina -- Historic soccer team River Plate was relegated to the Argentine second division for the first time in its 110-year existence Sunday, sparking riots between police and fans with dozens injured inside and outside Monumental Stadium.

This site ranks the top clubs from 1991-2009 and has River at 9th in the world, and #1 outside of Europe.http://www.iffhs.de/?3d4d443d0b803e8b40384c00205fdcdc3bfcdc0aec70aeedbe1a

Hard to argue with that list. River Plate going down is shocking, they are going to be hearing about that one from Boca supporters for a while.

 

[Slapdash]

I really would love to follow the game more than World Cup and associated tourneys, but having no team/no rooting interest makes it tough to follow the Euro leagues. I'd give MLS a try if I ever had any idea when and where they were playing, it was on TV, when the season ran, etc. I see highlights of the Pacific NW and rhe crowds are impressive.

I got into club soccer by finding players I enjoyed watching at the World Cup and following their clubs. Eventually I got a feel for the style of play I preferred and stuck with the club whose style I enjoyed watching the most. That would be my suggestion to you as well. My preference is for the Spanish and German leagues over the EPL, and the palyers in those leagues had a much better WC this last cycle.

 

[The Gator]

I really would love to follow the game more than World Cup and associated tourneys, but having no team/no rooting interest makes it tough to follow the Euro leagues. I'd give MLS a try if I ever had any idea when and where they were playing, it was on TV, when the season ran, etc. I see highlights of the Pacific NW and rhe crowds are impressive.

Here's an old article that I found pretty good. It leads to rooting for Tottenham, though. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060719

 

[Steve Tasker]

River Plate>

:BocaFan:

 

[Steve Tasker]

River Plate relegated! Imagine a team like Manchester United going down... that's basically what this is like. And from my limited understanding of Argentinian relegation- this is even worse. As I understand it, teams aren't relegated for their results over one season... it's something like an aggregate of the previous 3. So River didn't just suck for one year and unluckily go down- they super-sucked it over three. Wow.

Associated PressBUENOS AIRES, Argentina -- Historic soccer team River Plate was relegated to the Argentine second division for the first time in its 110-year existence Sunday, sparking riots between police and fans with dozens injured inside and outside Monumental Stadium.

This site ranks the top clubs from 1991-2009 and has River at 9th in the world, and #1 outside of Europe.http://www.iffhs.de/?3d4d443d0b803e8b40384c00205fdcdc3bfcdc0aec70aeedbe1a

Hard to argue with that list. River Plate going down is shocking, they are going to be hearing about that one from Boca supporters for a while.

 

[Ted Lange as your Bartender]

Two good articles on the Nats today on Grantland

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Is it Plate as in "dinner plate", or Plate like PLAH-tay.

 

[Mjolnirs]

I really would love to follow the game more than World Cup and associated tourneys, but having no team/no rooting interest makes it tough to follow the Euro leagues. I'd give MLS a try if I ever had any idea when and where they were playing, it was on TV, when the season ran, etc. I see highlights of the Pacific NW and rhe crowds are impressive.

If the MLS doesnt speak to you, try picking an English team - you can watch them in the Priemer League (in English)

Why is the EPL always the answer? With FSC and Gol you can watch German, Spanish, Italian and other leagues and the announcers speak English.

This site ranks the top clubs from 1991-2009http://www.iffhs.de/?3d4d443d0b803e8b40384c00205fdcdc3bfcdc0aec70aeedbe1a

This link shows 3 English, 3 Italian, 2 Spanish, 1 German and Argentinian teams in the top 10. The top 20 contains teams from 9 different countries; 8 of them not England.

 

[Mello]

congrats floppo Influx of immigrants (as well as the easing of stringent restrictions for German national side) has definitely helped both the German mens and women's team immensely. US was flat out out played by the Mexican team. Mexico has more talent in the attack, they are younger, faster, and it showed. I'm not gonna rip guys like Howard and Dempsey apart for having less than stellar games. But, imo, Mexico is a team on the rise on the national level and the US has kinda flat lined and may even be on the decline. They are an older side and I don't see huge talent in the pipeline tbh. Was a pretty entertaining game, that goal by dos santos was just effing brilliant.

I think Mexico will be a top five favorite by Vegas come next World cup. They are so good.

My knee-jerk reaction is no freaking way. They're good, but with holes, particularly defensively.But then again, this is basically the core group from the u17 world champions... so perhaps their time finally has come? And can they actually win an elimination game in the WC?But yeah- this team is very good. But also matches up very well against this US team- better than they did against Honduras or even Guatemala.

Good enough to take a flyer on at 33-1, right?

I wouldn't bet on anyone for the next WC. Home nations have a huge advantage in the WC and it's in Brazil. They will win it.

 

[Mello]

I really would love to follow the game more than World Cup and associated tourneys, but having no team/no rooting interest makes it tough to follow the Euro leagues. I'd give MLS a try if I ever had any idea when and where they were playing, it was on TV, when the season ran, etc. I see highlights of the Pacific NW and rhe crowds are impressive.

If the MLS doesnt speak to you, try picking an English team - you can watch them in the Priemer League (in English)

Why is the EPL always the answer? With FSC and Gol you can watch German, Spanish, Italian and other leagues and the announcers speak English.

Because most all of the coverage for the EPL and other fans of those teams also speak English. I think it would be tough to gain much of a connection to the teams in other leagues unless you spoke their language even if it's much easier to catch their matches nowadays.

 

[The Gator]

Why is the EPL always the answer? With FSC and Gol you can watch German, Spanish, Italian and other leagues and the announcers speak English.

Because it's WAY more available. For me at least(DishNetwork) Gol is two packages above the one I have, iirc. I get FSC on a relatively cheap package. There are no Spanish or German league games on there. Italian soccer...meh. Also, ESPN plays a lot of EPL games. I don't think people avoid the German league, it's just not out there in abundance like the EPL.

 

[The Gator]

highlights from the Germany U17 game...two great goals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90kSZqVa1K8

 

[Pope Benedict XVI Fan]

Is it Plate as in "dinner plate", or Plate like PLAH-tay.

Dinner plate. When the club was set up in 1901 there were a lot British ex-pats in Buenos Aires and the club founders thought having an English name River Plate, as opposed to Río de la Plata, sounded cooler.

 

[The Z Machine]

OK here's my writeup of the Gold Cup final from a spectator's perspective. This will be long, and will focus on the match experience itself, and not so much the stuff on the pitch.

Originally we bought 10 tickets for the final about 3 months ago with the hopes that we'd get to see Mexico play the US. We sold off 5 tickets for a tidy profit including a single seat for over $200 days before the game, reducing our ticket cost to around $40 for great seats. All of my "soccer crew" which has numerous caps under their belts including a guy who's seen 6 USMNT WC games in person and 6 other WC games. All of them grew up in SoCal, and 4 out of 5 can at least conversate in Spanish (myself included).

We pre-partied at another friend's house to get in the mood and get some fuel for the game. Since there were 90k+ attendees, the parking at the Rose Bowl was bound to be a total cluster####, so we decided to walk into the canyon (arroyo seco) about 2 miles each way. Along the route to the game, there were a LOT of cars honking and yelling at the 5 US fans with scarves, stupid hats, USMNT jersies etc. Right away, we knew we were entering hostile territory, but nothing other than good natured insults were hurled. We started bringing the "HOY NO" and "No se puede Mexico" stuff right back at them. Most took it very well. It was obvious that US fans would be outnumbered AT LEAST 10:1, maybe more.

We arrived at the entrance to the stadium about 2 hours prior to kick off and it was a madhouse. Lots of people already drunk and lots of good natured ribbing. Some of the Mexican fans were talking about how the US was gonna play 4 holding midfielders and still couldn't control the ball. We had to laugh and give them credit for that. There were TONS of Chicharito jersies in the house. Most in the "el tri" green. Lots of mexican (and american) beer was being drunk outside the stadium. The security was only asking the fans not to bring in bottles or cans, and there wasn't much searching of persons going on. One guy next to me (shaved head, tatted up arm, fairly drunk) said, "You know, I love this the USA, this country's been very good to me, very good to me, but this is Mexican football. I just want a good game and I really hope the Mexicans don't do anything stupid. We don't want any violence, just a good game and to see Mexico beat the USA." He gave us props for showing up and sporting the stars and stripes. He also commented that "latin women are ####### hot, just look at this chick." and proceeded to show off his girlfriend who was right next to him, wearing a green el tri jersey, and a USA headband. He said she "was confused"... I told him that I greed and married a latina as well, and he gave me a high five. There were LOTS of youths there, and I'd say the the typical attendee was a male, in his 20s or early 30s who is likely a 2nd generation Mexican-American. Born here, but raised on Mexican football.

Once inside, we got some beers (and tacos, since that's the food that was being sold) and unfurled our giant California flag (with bear kicking the soccer ball). We got lost of responses from that. Lots of people wanting to take pictures in front of it (US and MEX fans alike) and even the official CONCACAF photogs got some snaps. That's when the insults took on a bit more bite with "culero, culero" ringing out every few minutes. We came back with a lot of mild insults and trash talking in Spanish, like "Chicartito uno, Dempsey dos". But in general, most of the people love California almost as much as their national side, so smiles were happy all around. At least that's something that (almost) everyone could agree on. Some MEX fans were even giving the US players some credit and Landon and Howard particularly holds some respect with them. Some of the fans even came from Mexico just to watch the game, so it's wasn't just chicanos. One guy whispered to me (in Spanish) that Mexico was going to lose 2-0 because they never play well against the US. He was correct... for 25 minutes anyway. The VAST majority of fans wished us good luck, although we (the US) was going to lose nonetheless.

We made it to our seats and again busted out the giant flag. Some guys behind us immediately started heckling and one guy just kept repeating "USA, #### YOU!" after which we asked what else he had in his repertoire, but I think that's all he had. After a few minutes of serious heckling, it turned more jovial with good natured ribbing and mild insults in Spanish to test our language skills. The true native speakers in our group mostly kept their mouths shut, as me and my brother could hold our own (and were way funnier). The game kicked off, and the Mexican crowd was REALLY into it at first. Very loud and very supportive. The US fans were simply drowned out in volume. There was no way we could compete. Oh, and the crowd stood the whole game. There's no way anyone would sit during the game.

On both the US goals, the look on the faces around us was simply awesome. They were stunned, staring in disbelief. Not shaking their heads, but more like deer in headlights. It was a shock to their system, to their vision. We were standing on our seats swinging the white US jersies over our heads and pointing to the crest for all the Mexicans around us to see. However, nothing was thrown, not a beer, a battery, or a piss bomb. The fans were actually much more cordial than I thought, certainly better behaved than some NFL or college football fans. No threats of violence, and not really much to put me on guard even when I was screaming at the top of my lungs and taunting them after the US goals.

However, the Mexican fans didn't really get too down as they knew (and we knew) that the goals were coming. You know it's bad when you're clock watching with 65 minutes left to play. Hell, we were in disbelief, as our expectations were pretty low going into the game. When Mexico scored that 2nd goal, we pretty much knew the game was over since the two US goals were pretty soft and Mexico was destroying the US back line.

I missed the 3rd MEX goal as I was in the pisser, which was an experience in itself. The line took 20+ minutes and once inside it smelled like a beer, piss, and weed sauna. Literally 100+ degrees in there, with guys flipping the lights on an off, people blazing in the stalls and everyone yelling. No pushing, but the quarters were tighter than I would have liked when handling my junk.

The crowd stayed into the game the whole time, and supported their team with a power that's rarely seen in the US. Red Sox nation, Raider nation, SEC football, and all other US sports aint got nothing on these fans, whose support runs deeper and stronger than anything else I've seen in this country. They should be proud, despite some of the classless things that happen during games. We left right at the final whistle while 90% of the Mexican fans stuck around. That made getting out a breeze, and we could enjoy the 2 mile walk back out of the canyon to our car.

That's when the worst fan of the night showed up, which was predictably, an American, and he wasn't even drunk. He was being paranoid while leaving the stadium and said, "oh man, maybe I pissed off those Mexicans and they're coming after me." yet there wasn't anyone even behind him. I said, "Don't worry, they're happy, they just won. Don't sweat it." to which he responded,

"Yeah, they look almost as happy as when they pick up their food stamps." I should have decked the mother####er right there. Instead I just ignored him.

What a disgrace to US soccer that we have such horrible people that can say such things and think it's OK. What trash. About a million times worse than any of the cholo gangsters supporting el tri.

So, that's the write-up from the fans perspective. I'd recommend a US/MEX game to all of you if you ever get a chance.

 

[The Z Machine]

I'll comment on stuff on the pitch next, but if any of you have particular questions about plays or stuff that went on likely off camera, I'll try to answer them.

 

[The Gator]

Re: Parking

I watched the game with some friends and one guy was young Mexican kid. He was very cool, quiet...Had a Blanco WC jersey on. He said this, "Look, there are 90 thousand people there, most Mexico fans. So you know that there are like 25 cars in the parking lot. We know how to carpool."

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Re: Parking

I watched the game with some friends and one guy was young Mexican kid. Hew as very cool, quiet...Had a Blanco WC jersey on. He said this, "Look, there are 90 thousand people there, most Mexico fans. So you know that there are like 25 cars in the parking lot. We know how to carpool."

 

[TwinTurbo]

Johnny B... I mentioned already that I thought he looked ok once he caught the pace of the game in the 2nd half. I wonder if playing in Mexico is helping him (and provoking Bradley to insert him) against those players. But that first half was typical Bornstein- no sense at all of where the players are around him as he ball watches and follows the ball physically into the middle, allowing players to constantly find the space behind him. Amateurish, in that regard.

Bornstein's performance was beyond abysmal and laughably bad. 3 of the 4 goals came from his side. And at least 2 of those goals were created almost entirely due to his poor defending. At no point in the match did he look ok and while this is a team loss, he was by far the weakest link. And the wonder goal by Gio was a clinic of bad defense. It was a world class chip but defenders were either standing around and watching or literally running away from him. It was shameful defending.

TOtally disagree with the bolded. I loathe Bornstein, but he played an average/ok game for the final 35 minutes of the 2nd half, as I mentioned originally. He got forward well and had decent final balls into the box. He was at a loss with the ball at feet if not driving down the wing for those crosses, but he wasn't alone there. He also actually defended ok in that stretch, without his typically shambolic positioning and winning more than his share of 1v1s. And he showed his pace, which is *ok*.

Maybe I'm just responding to your hypberole, which is a form of commentary I usually dislike. But discount his typical howlers that gave Mexico those easier scoring chances (chances which they'd been creating all game, btw) and goals in the first half (and was he responsible for the go-ahead goal? I don't really remember it too clearly, happened so bang-bang with what seemed like very little defense from anybody on the US), and I'd rate his overall game as average, or *ok*. Include those, and he was horrible. But I didn't in my original commentary.

The Gio goal was a fantastic diagonal run by him (which the Mexicans were doing all night), and great feed by whoever gave it to him. The US was stuck out a little, IIRC, with the MFs having worked their asses off and giving up space as they tried to push forward for the tie-ing goal. And IIRC, Goodson got caught really flat-footed as Gio ran by him. But Howard needed to come off his line there, IMO, or risk giving Gio both sides of the goal at his disposal. HOwards' scrambling around on the ground was as much as testament to Gio's touch in tight quarters on that play as anything else (although I do admit I expected Howard to get to his feet faster/earlier). Pretty sure there were Mexican runners hitting the box, so not every defender could or was even supposed to close on Gio there and the rest were trying to stop him without risking the PK. He just danced around the guys near him and hit that sublime chip.

I'm too tired to know whether I"m agreeing or disagreeing with you right now about that. I think it's the latter.

My comments on Bornstein were not hyperbole. He was that bad. I just don't see how you can rate a defender's game as average or *ok* when his lack of quickness, poor positioning, and ball watching directly led to the other team winning.On the Gio goal, there were six US defenders in the box plus Howard. 4 of those defenders could have closed on Gio but didn't. He was given all the space any goal scorer dreams about. Jermaine Jones and Bornstein are literally standing around and watching. In the case of Jones, he actually runs away from Gio before attempting a late weak stick at the ball. It was pathetic display on defense.

 

[Mjolnirs]

Because most all of the coverage for the EPL and other fans of those teams also speak English. I think it would be tough to gain much of a connection to the teams in other leagues unless you spoke their language even if it's much easier to catch their matches nowadays.

Because it's WAY more available. For me at least(DishNetwork) Gol is two packages above the one I have, iirc. I get FSC on a relatively cheap package. There are no Spanish or German league games on there. Italian soccer...meh. Also, ESPN plays a lot of EPL games. I don't think people avoid the German league, it's just not out there in abundance like the EPL.

While these have been valid points in the past I just don't think they hold lately. As I mentioned there are stations showing other league games with English announcers. ESPN3 now shows Bundesliga matches with English announcers. I don't know about all clubs, but I know plenty of the larger ones have English versions of their pages and most stores.I can tell you I became a fan of Bayern in the mid 90s and following them and the BL was difficult. Now the DFB website has an English version and Bayern's site has an English version. There's even an English section on the Bayern message board. I've also been a member of an English email group that follows the team for over 10 years.I know Bayern are one of the largest clubs and this isn't available for all clubs, but the language barrier is melting away enough that the EPL isn't the only option for new English speaking American fans.

 

[Christo]

I really would love to follow the game more than World Cup and associated tourneys, but having no team/no rooting interest makes it tough to follow the Euro leagues. I'd give MLS a try if I ever had any idea when and where they were playing, it was on TV, when the season ran, etc. I see highlights of the Pacific NW and rhe crowds are impressive.

You can join us watching the EPL Saturday and Sunday mornings starting 8/13. Pick any team except for ManU, Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal.

I enjoyed rooting for Reading a while back (07?)during a few a occasional matches. Were they bumped down?

Year before last, I think.

 

[Christo]

I really would love to follow the game more than World Cup and associated tourneys, but having no team/no rooting interest makes it tough to follow the Euro leagues. I'd give MLS a try if I ever had any idea when and where they were playing, it was on TV, when the season ran, etc. I see highlights of the Pacific NW and rhe crowds are impressive.

If the MLS doesnt speak to you, try picking an English team - you can watch them in the Priemer League (in English)

Why is the EPL always the answer?

If you have to ask . . .

 

[Ted Lange as your Bartender]

Awesome writeup Z, thanks for sharing.

I've never been to a US-MEX game in person. The closest experience I ever had to it was watching a US-MEX Olympic qualifier match on TV at a Wal-Mart in Acapulco about 7 years ago. Winner qualified for the Olympics.

There were about 20 locals around the screen and I was clearly the only "gringo" who cared or who probably even knew the match was even going on. Mexico crushed the States in that match, and the guys watching would cheer each goal, and then look over to my reaction and just kind of sheepishly shrug at me. Not sure if my being there was a buzzkill or if they respected the fact that I was watching it with them. Interesting experience either way.

 

[jonessed]

Because most all of the coverage for the EPL and other fans of those teams also speak English. I think it would be tough to gain much of a connection to the teams in other leagues unless you spoke their language even if it's much easier to catch their matches nowadays.

Because it's WAY more available. For me at least(DishNetwork) Gol is two packages above the one I have, iirc. I get FSC on a relatively cheap package. There are no Spanish or German league games on there. Italian soccer...meh. Also, ESPN plays a lot of EPL games. I don't think people avoid the German league, it's just not out there in abundance like the EPL.

While these have been valid points in the past I just don't think they hold lately. As I mentioned there are stations showing other league games with English announcers. ESPN3 now shows Bundesliga matches with English announcers. I don't know about all clubs, but I know plenty of the larger ones have English versions of their pages and most stores.I can tell you I became a fan of Bayern in the mid 90s and following them and the BL was difficult. Now the DFB website has an English version and Bayern's site has an English version. There's even an English section on the Bayern message board. I've also been a member of an English email group that follows the team for over 10 years.I know Bayern are one of the largest clubs and this isn't available for all clubs, but the language barrier is melting away enough that the EPL isn't the only option for new English speaking American fans.

With both Fox Soccer and Fox Soccer Plus being directed at mostly EPL games it's definitely easier to follow than any other league. Gol show La Liga and Bundesliga, but you pretty much have to follow Barcelona or Bayern to see many of the games (and even then it's spotty).Whatever league someone chooses to follow the Champion's League games are great and are easy to follow without any of the subscription packages (at least on DirectTV). You won't get all of the games, but you will get a lot of them.

 

[Christo]

Because most all of the coverage for the EPL and other fans of those teams also speak English. I think it would be tough to gain much of a connection to the teams in other leagues unless you spoke their language even if it's much easier to catch their matches nowadays.

Because it's WAY more available. For me at least(DishNetwork) Gol is two packages above the one I have, iirc. I get FSC on a relatively cheap package. There are no Spanish or German league games on there. Italian soccer...meh. Also, ESPN plays a lot of EPL games. I don't think people avoid the German league, it's just not out there in abundance like the EPL.

While these have been valid points in the past I just don't think they hold lately. As I mentioned there are stations showing other league games with English announcers. ESPN3 now shows Bundesliga matches with English announcers. I don't know about all clubs, but I know plenty of the larger ones have English versions of their pages and most stores.I can tell you I became a fan of Bayern in the mid 90s and following them and the BL was difficult. Now the DFB website has an English version and Bayern's site has an English version. There's even an English section on the Bayern message board. I've also been a member of an English email group that follows the team for over 10 years.I know Bayern are one of the largest clubs and this isn't available for all clubs, but the language barrier is melting away enough that the EPL isn't the only option for new English speaking American fans.

With both Fox Soccer and Fox Soccer Plus being directed at mostly EPL games it's definitely easier to follow than any other league. Gol show La Liga and Bundesliga, but you pretty much have to follow Barcelona or Bayern to see many of the games.Whatever league someone chooses to follow the Champion's League games are great and are easy to follow without any of the subscription packages (at least on DirectTV). You won't get all of the games, but you will get a lot of them.

That's the beauty of ESPN2 & FSC's coverage of the EPL. While the Big 4 do get the most exposure, there are so many games televised we get to see every team multiple times each season.