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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (2 Viewers)

'scoobygang said:
'NewlyRetired said:
Boy, a lot of people really don't like Klinsmann. Here is another article with someone taking shots at himhttp://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/soccer/10/20/hoeness.klinsmann.ap/index.html?sct=sc_t2_a6
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That article is ridiculous. Really don't think computers are bending the cost curve at a club with Bayern's wage budget.
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Yeah that was kind of my point. Its like they use anything they can find to try an discredit him. He must have burned some bridges above and below him.
 
OK, I did not see this coming. Not sure I agree with the speculation on why.

===================

Grant Wahl (@GrantWahl)

10/20/11 6:31 PM

Source: Fifa asked ESPN, Fox, NBC/Telemundo, Univisión for re-bids on U.S. broadcast rights for World Cups '18 and '22.

Grant Wahl (@GrantWahl)

10/20/11 6:37 PM

If Fifa is asking U.S. networks to re-bid on World Cup rights, it's presumably a sign Fifa didn't think the first bids were high enough.

 
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'NewlyRetired said:
OK, I did not see this coming. Not sure I agree with the speculation on why. ===================Grant Wahl (@GrantWahl)10/20/11 6:31 PMSource: Fifa asked ESPN, Fox, NBC/Telemundo, Univisión for re-bids on U.S. broadcast rights for World Cups '18 and '22.Grant Wahl (@GrantWahl)10/20/11 6:37 PMIf Fifa is asking U.S. networks to re-bid on World Cup rights, it's presumably a sign Fifa didn't think the first bids were high enough.
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Greed is usually a logical assumption when considering the motives for anything FIFA does
 
'Eephus said:
'NewlyRetired said:
OK, I did not see this coming. Not sure I agree with the speculation on why. ===================Grant Wahl (@GrantWahl)10/20/11 6:31 PMSource: Fifa asked ESPN, Fox, NBC/Telemundo, Univisión for re-bids on U.S. broadcast rights for World Cups '18 and '22.Grant Wahl (@GrantWahl)10/20/11 6:37 PMIf Fifa is asking U.S. networks to re-bid on World Cup rights, it's presumably a sign Fifa didn't think the first bids were high enough.
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Greed is usually a logical assumption when considering the motives for anything FIFA does
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It probably is greed. It may also be that the bids are so close in range that there is no differentiating them. Will be interesting to see who blinks first.I hate FIFA.
 
'scoobygang said:
'NewlyRetired said:
Boy, a lot of people really don't like Klinsmann. Here is another article with someone taking shots at himhttp://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/soccer/10/20/hoeness.klinsmann.ap/index.html?sct=sc_t2_a6
Click to expand...
That article is ridiculous. Really don't think computers are bending the cost curve at a club with Bayern's wage budget.
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No kidding. I'd guess Robben makes more per week to sit in the trainer's room than Klinsmann spent on computers in his whole tenure.
 
I'm back IN[/size=7]

And yeah, Ted- Union were pretty bad handling the ball. Soooo many cheap turnovers. Some credit to RB for clearly being the team that wanted it more all game with a lot of workrate up and down the field.

 
'El Floppo said:
I'm back IN[/size=7]

And yeah, Ted- Union were pretty bad handling the ball. Soooo many cheap turnovers. Some credit to RB for clearly being the team that wanted it more all game with a lot of workrate up and down the field.
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If NY gets Dallas in the one game wild card, they might have a chance. Dallas has not been playing well at all.
 
'NewlyRetired said:
Boy, a lot of people really don't like Klinsmann. Here is another article with someone taking shots at himhttp://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/soccer/10/20/hoeness.klinsmann.ap/index.html?sct=sc_t2_a6
Click to expand...
Uli likes to hear himself talk. :rolleyes:
 
LA joins Toronto and Seattle in the knock out rounds winning 1-0 in an extremely boring game.

Quarter finals start next March. Chance that LA could draw either Seatlle or Toronto.

If Becks leaves that opens up a huge salary space for another big name player but that likely would not be until next summer.

 
'NewlyRetired said:
Boy, a lot of people really don't like Klinsmann. Here is another article with someone taking shots at himhttp://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/soccer/10/20/hoeness.klinsmann.ap/index.html?sct=sc_t2_a6
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This is just silly.
 
'NewlyRetired said:
'LHUCKS said:
How did Adu look?
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Played the second half. Got plenty of touches but could not unlock defense.
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When he had time and space, he looked dangerous giving some smart, threatening balls forward- he's so good at finding the space for passes, often before the runner does.That said, NY was pressing hard so he didn't have much time and/or space and- as is typical from what Ive seen of his game at the pro level- he pretty much disappeared. He did have a nice stiff challenge on Marquez though, which I loved seeing.
 
Grant Wahl is reporting surprising news from his sources

Fox has won the English language rights and Telemundo won the Spanish language rights for 2018/2022. Have not yet heard any numbers.

This was a worst case scenario for MLS IMO.

 
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'NewlyRetired said:
Grant Wahl is reporting surprising news from his sourcesFox has won the English language rights and Telemundo won the Spanish language rights for 2018/2022. Have not yet heard any numbers. This was a worst case scenario for MLS IMO.
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Further tweets have indicated that Fox may have quadrupled the rights fee that ESPN paid last go around (100 to 400 million)MLS still has not issued a statement. My guess is that they are still in shock. My only hope is that FIFA was serious about the WC provider also supporting the domestic league and that Fox presented something solid regarding MLS that we won't be privy to for a while.If FIFA just went for the money grab then soccer in the US has been screwed twice by them in this year when factoring in the WC 2022 debacle.
 
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'NewlyRetired said:
'NewlyRetired said:
Grant Wahl is reporting surprising news from his sourcesFox has won the English language rights and Telemundo won the Spanish language rights for 2018/2022. Have not yet heard any numbers. This was a worst case scenario for MLS IMO.
Click to expand...
Further tweets have indicated that Fox may have quadrupled the rights fee that ESPN paid last go around (100 to 400 million)MLS still has not issued a statement. My guess is that they are still in shock. My only hope is that FIFA was serious about the WC provider also supporting the domestic league and that Fox presented something solid regarding MLS that we won't be privy to for a while.If FIFA just went for the money grab then soccer in the US has been screwed twice by them in this year when factoring in the WC 2022 debacle.
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I just wanna see Sean Hannity reporting live from Qatar in 2022 :lol: -QG
 
I just don't see where it's FIFA's obligation to use its World Cup rights to leverage more attention for MLS. I'm fine if FIFA thinks that's the smartest move (I'm not sure I agree, but I don't have strong feelings either way). But I certainly don't see it as "screwing" MLS.

 
'scoobygang said:
I just don't see where it's FIFA's obligation to use its World Cup rights to leverage more attention for MLS. I'm fine if FIFA thinks that's the smartest move (I'm not sure I agree, but I don't have strong feelings either way). But I certainly don't see it as "screwing" MLS.
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1) In 2005 Fifa flat out rejected the NBC bid because they ignored the local domestic league. Fifa set a precedent that was very clear at that time and reopened the bidding to which ESPN won when they added an 8 year MLS contract to the deal2). FIFA most certainly is obligated to help FIFA sanctioned leagues when ever they can IMO. They should not be around just to accept bribes and expand their bank accounts.

3) If and only if FIFA chose Fox over the other two just because of money, then yes, they screwed the local domestic league based on their own precedence they set on the last go around.

The hidden factor to all of this is we have no idea what Fox promised to Fifa regarding MLS/US Soccer and may not know for up to 3 years. Hopefully Ives and or Wahl can dig the information out quickly.

 
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'Slapdash said:
'NewlyRetired said:
Fox has won the English language rights and Telemundo won the Spanish language rights for 2018/2022. Have not yet heard any numbers.
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I don't like games on Fox at all. :thumbdown:
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If they spent what was rumored, the way you watch games today on Fox and the way you watch them 7 years from now will be night and day IMO. It will be interesting to see how they evolve now and whether they expand their coverage to MLS and the US Nats in 2014 or just stay with the group they have. If Fox did not include covering US or MLS, SUM might have to start buying time, worst case, on stations come 2015.Under the category of hard to predict what will happen 7 years from now, if FSC has the same low amount of household penetration, it would not surprise me to see very few WC games on FSC.
 
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Brian Sciaretta (@briansciaretta)

10/21/11 1:09 PM

Very exciting news for #USMNT fans. I am hearing rumors that US forward Terrence Boyd could be in the 18 for Borussia Dortmund this weekend

============================================

This is another German American, 20 years old, played for the US U20 team. No wonder Ramos is running a camp in Germany this winter for the U20-23's.

 
Holy smokes, these numbers are huge if correct

==============================

SBJ's John Ourand:

Sources: Telemundo will pay $600M; Fox will pay $450-500M for World Cup rights. (Univision had paid $325M; ESPN $100M last go around)

 
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'NewlyRetired said:
'scoobygang said:
I just don't see where it's FIFA's obligation to use its World Cup rights to leverage more attention for MLS. I'm fine if FIFA thinks that's the smartest move (I'm not sure I agree, but I don't have strong feelings either way). But I certainly don't see it as "screwing" MLS.
Click to expand...
1) In 2005 Fifa flat out rejected the NBC bid because they ignored the local domestic league. Fifa set a precedent that was very clear at that time and reopened the bidding to which ESPN won when they added an 8 year MLS contract to the deal2). FIFA most certainly is obligated to help FIFA sanctioned leagues when ever they can IMO. They should not be around just to accept bribes and expand their bank accounts.

3) If and only if FIFA chose Fox over the other two just because of money, then yes, they screwed the local domestic league based on their own precedence they set on the last go around.

The hidden factor to all of this is we have no idea what Fox promised to Fifa regarding MLS/US Soccer and may not know for up to 3 years. Hopefully Ives and or Wahl can dig the information out quickly.
Click to expand...
1) Businesses can, and do change their minds. "Precedent" doesn't mean anything in business. The parameters of the last deal don't have to be the parameters of the new deal. 2) This is a strawman. FIFA can grow the sport without growing MLS. It's not a decision between growing MLS or accepting bribes. If there's a significant difference in an offer with a promise to carry MLS and an offer without the promise, FIFA has to weigh the extra money (which could be used to help any number of developing leagues or outreach in the third world) against the growth of the league. Fox has also put significant resources into promoting the Champions League, which features many of the players that will be in the World Cup. There are definitely strong opportunities for synergy.

 
'scoobygang said:
'NewlyRetired said:
'scoobygang said:
I just don't see where it's FIFA's obligation to use its World Cup rights to leverage more attention for MLS. I'm fine if FIFA thinks that's the smartest move (I'm not sure I agree, but I don't have strong feelings either way). But I certainly don't see it as "screwing" MLS.
Click to expand...
1) In 2005 Fifa flat out rejected the NBC bid because they ignored the local domestic league. Fifa set a precedent that was very clear at that time and reopened the bidding to which ESPN won when they added an 8 year MLS contract to the deal2). FIFA most certainly is obligated to help FIFA sanctioned leagues when ever they can IMO. They should not be around just to accept bribes and expand their bank accounts.

3) If and only if FIFA chose Fox over the other two just because of money, then yes, they screwed the local domestic league based on their own precedence they set on the last go around.

The hidden factor to all of this is we have no idea what Fox promised to Fifa regarding MLS/US Soccer and may not know for up to 3 years. Hopefully Ives and or Wahl can dig the information out quickly.
Click to expand...
1) Businesses can, and do change their minds. "Precedent" doesn't mean anything in business. The parameters of the last deal don't have to be the parameters of the new deal. 2) This is a strawman. FIFA can grow the sport without growing MLS. It's not a decision between growing MLS or accepting bribes. If there's a significant difference in an offer with a promise to carry MLS and an offer without the promise, FIFA has to weigh the extra money (which could be used to help any number of developing leagues or outreach in the third world) against the growth of the league. Fox has also put significant resources into promoting the Champions League, which features many of the players that will be in the World Cup. There are definitely strong opportunities for synergy.
Click to expand...
Champions League? Like Toronto-Seattle? Good news after all, Andy! :thumbup:
 
'Sebowski said:
'scoobygang said:
'NewlyRetired said:
'scoobygang said:
I just don't see where it's FIFA's obligation to use its World Cup rights to leverage more attention for MLS. I'm fine if FIFA thinks that's the smartest move (I'm not sure I agree, but I don't have strong feelings either way). But I certainly don't see it as "screwing" MLS.
Click to expand...
1) In 2005 Fifa flat out rejected the NBC bid because they ignored the local domestic league. Fifa set a precedent that was very clear at that time and reopened the bidding to which ESPN won when they added an 8 year MLS contract to the deal2). FIFA most certainly is obligated to help FIFA sanctioned leagues when ever they can IMO. They should not be around just to accept bribes and expand their bank accounts.

3) If and only if FIFA chose Fox over the other two just because of money, then yes, they screwed the local domestic league based on their own precedence they set on the last go around.

The hidden factor to all of this is we have no idea what Fox promised to Fifa regarding MLS/US Soccer and may not know for up to 3 years. Hopefully Ives and or Wahl can dig the information out quickly.
Click to expand...
1) Businesses can, and do change their minds. "Precedent" doesn't mean anything in business. The parameters of the last deal don't have to be the parameters of the new deal. 2) This is a strawman. FIFA can grow the sport without growing MLS. It's not a decision between growing MLS or accepting bribes. If there's a significant difference in an offer with a promise to carry MLS and an offer without the promise, FIFA has to weigh the extra money (which could be used to help any number of developing leagues or outreach in the third world) against the growth of the league. Fox has also put significant resources into promoting the Champions League, which features many of the players that will be in the World Cup. There are definitely strong opportunities for synergy.
Click to expand...
Champions League? Like Toronto-Seattle? Good news after all, Andy! :thumbup:
Click to expand...
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
 
'NewlyRetired said:
'Slapdash said:
'NewlyRetired said:
Fox has won the English language rights and Telemundo won the Spanish language rights for 2018/2022. Have not yet heard any numbers.
Click to expand...
I don't like games on Fox at all. :thumbdown:
Click to expand...
If they spent what was rumored, the way you watch games today on Fox and the way you watch them 7 years from now will be night and day IMO. It will be interesting to see how they evolve now and whether they expand their coverage to MLS and the US Nats in 2014 or just stay with the group they have.

If Fox did not include covering US or MLS, SUM might have to start buying time, worst case, on stations come 2015.

Under the category of hard to predict what will happen 7 years from now, if FSC has the same low amount of household penetration, it would not surprise me to see very few WC games on FSC.
Click to expand...
Thinking about this more and assuming the contract numbers are right, Fox must have hopes of getting FSC off of the sports packs and on to a basic tier to get them in a significant amount of more homes.
 
'NewlyRetired said:
Thinking about this more and assuming the contract numbers are right, Fox must have hopes of getting FSC off of the sports packs and on to a basic tier to get them in a significant amount of more homes.
Click to expand...
Or they'll bust open a few free channels that everyone can get on basic cable, like what DTV does for CL games.
 
'The Z Machine said:
'NewlyRetired said:
Thinking about this more and assuming the contract numbers are right, Fox must have hopes of getting FSC off of the sports packs and on to a basic tier to get them in a significant amount of more homes.
Click to expand...
Or they'll bust open a few free channels that everyone can get on basic cable, like what DTV does for CL games.
Click to expand...
No, that won't work I don't think. Fox spent so much money the have to use their own networks and push their shows. They could never get the add rates needed to balance the books on a channel that springs up out of no where. Direct TV can do this because it is basically addless and done as a free service to its subscribers. Thinking about this more, the majority of games will likely be on Fox and FX and the remainder (likely the simultaneous 3rd games of the first round) will be on FSC. I still think Fox will do what ever they can to push FSC off the horrendous tier they are on now. Similarly, we are certainly going to see Telemundo in HD finally on all basic tiers. How Comcast handles Mun2 will be interesting to watch.For the first time in my lifetime, there is a legitimate contender for Univision.
 
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'NewlyRetired said:
'The Z Machine said:
'NewlyRetired said:
Thinking about this more and assuming the contract numbers are right, Fox must have hopes of getting FSC off of the sports packs and on to a basic tier to get them in a significant amount of more homes.
Click to expand...
Or they'll bust open a few free channels that everyone can get on basic cable, like what DTV does for CL games.
Click to expand...
No, that won't work I don't think. Fox spent so much money the have to use their own networks and push their shows. They could never get the add rates needed to balance the books on a channel that springs up out of no where. Direct TV can do this because it is basically addless and done as a free service to its subscribers. Thinking about this more, the majority of games will likely be on Fox and FX and the remainder (likely the simultaneous 3rd games of the first round) will be on FSC. I still think Fox will do what ever they can to push FSC off the horrendous tier they are on now. Similarly, we are certainly going to see Telemundo in HD finally on all basic tiers. How Comcast handles Mun2 will be interesting to watch.For the first time in my lifetime, there is a legitimate contender for Univision.
Click to expand...
Fox is also using Fuel TV for some UFC content with their new deal so I bet we some some soccer pop up there as well.
 
IMO Fox getting the WC is bad news not just for MLS but for the general growth of the sport in the US

Say what you will about ESPNs treatment of the sport, but ESPN does a lot to push the sport into the general psyche of the average sports fan (SportsCenter top plays, the occasional blurb on PTI, etc). Positive or negative, it's out there. Will that continue if ESPN no longer has a stake in the sport's biggest event? Hockey took years to recover from leaving ESPN and it wasn't just the lockout. Yes I know they still have various soccer properties, but I don't want soccer to get frozen out again by such a vital outlet.

Fox's treatment of the sport is IMO awful. FSC is one step above public access, and their coverage of the CL final last spring was terrible in its pandering to Joe American Sports Fan (remember the Michael Strahan segment?). ESPN kind of did the same with the 06 world Cup (Dave OBrien anyone?), but they really did a great job this past Cup in presenting the tournament with top notch analysis, commentators etc. Even little things like showing the full anthems treated the Cup with respect. I don't want to lose that either.

Another thought: Chuck Blazer was a big proponent of looking out for MLS the last time the WC rights came up for bid. Blazer is now a lame duck on the FIFA ExCo. So who in Zurich is looking out for the US best interests? Who will be in the future? I'm guessing nobody.

MLS jumped into bed with NBC. I think they gambled and lost. Tough day for the sport in America IMO

 
'Ted Lange as your Bartender said:
IMO Fox getting the WC is bad news not just for MLS but for the general growth of the sport in the USSay what you will about ESPNs treatment of the sport, but ESPN does a lot to push the sport into the general psyche of the average sports fan (SportsCenter top plays, the occasional blurb on PTI, etc). Positive or negative, it's out there. Will that continue if ESPN no longer has a stake in the sport's biggest event? Hockey took years to recover from leaving ESPN and it wasn't just the lockout. Yes I know they still have various soccer properties, but I don't want soccer to get frozen out again by such a vital outlet.Fox's treatment of the sport is IMO awful. FSC is one step above public access, and their coverage of the CL final last spring was terrible in its pandering to Joe American Sports Fan (remember the Michael Strahan segment?). ESPN kind of did the same with the 06 world Cup (Dave OBrien anyone?), but they really did a great job this past Cup in presenting the tournament with top notch analysis, commentators etc. Even little things like showing the full anthems treated the Cup with respect. I don't want to lose that either.Another thought: Chuck Blazer was a big proponent of looking out for MLS the last time the WC rights came up for bid. Blazer is now a lame duck on the FIFA ExCo. So who in Zurich is looking out for the US best interests? Who will be in the future? I'm guessing nobody.MLS jumped into bed with NBC. I think they gambled and lost. Tough day for the sport in America IMO
Click to expand...
Those of us that have been following the sport for decades are reminded of a painful realization every so often.Progress for the sport is always 3 steps forward, 2.5 steps backwards. Nothing is easy.
 
'Sebowski said:
'NewlyRetired said:
'The Z Machine said:
'NewlyRetired said:
Thinking about this more and assuming the contract numbers are right, Fox must have hopes of getting FSC off of the sports packs and on to a basic tier to get them in a significant amount of more homes.
Click to expand...
Or they'll bust open a few free channels that everyone can get on basic cable, like what DTV does for CL games.
Click to expand...
No, that won't work I don't think. Fox spent so much money the have to use their own networks and push their shows. They could never get the add rates needed to balance the books on a channel that springs up out of no where. Direct TV can do this because it is basically addless and done as a free service to its subscribers. Thinking about this more, the majority of games will likely be on Fox and FX and the remainder (likely the simultaneous 3rd games of the first round) will be on FSC. I still think Fox will do what ever they can to push FSC off the horrendous tier they are on now. Similarly, we are certainly going to see Telemundo in HD finally on all basic tiers. How Comcast handles Mun2 will be interesting to watch.For the first time in my lifetime, there is a legitimate contender for Univision.
Click to expand...
Fox is also using Fuel TV for some UFC content with their new deal so I bet we some some soccer pop up there as well.
Click to expand...
I kind of like the synergy between UFC and soccer. The UFC announcers are always talking about soccer athletes favorably in how they convert to fighters and Dana White has always spoken highly of the sport.MLS could do much worse than find themselves having a UFC show as a lead in to a game sometime after the current deals expire.
 
'NewlyRetired said:
It likely has nothing to do with the bid but Fox and Direct TV are in a battle over money. Direct TV is getting ready to pull FSC, FSC+, FX and Fox Deportes on November 1st due to the fact that Fox is asking for too much money for the stations.http://www.chron.com/news/article/TV-radio-notebook-Fox-DirecTV-intensify-2229118.php
Click to expand...
I would drop Direct TV in a heartbeat if they pulled this.
 
'NewlyRetired said:
It likely has nothing to do with the bid but Fox and Direct TV are in a battle over money. Direct TV is getting ready to pull FSC, FSC+, FX and Fox Deportes on November 1st due to the fact that Fox is asking for too much money for the stations.http://www.chron.com/news/article/TV-radio-notebook-Fox-DirecTV-intensify-2229118.php
Click to expand...
I will blow up DirecTv if this happens. :wall:
 
Fabian Johnson came back from injury today. Played 68 minutes with an assist.

Good chance we see him on roster for the November Euro friendlies.

 
'Ted Lange as your Bartender said:
IMO Fox getting the WC is bad news not just for MLS but for the general growth of the sport in the USSay what you will about ESPNs treatment of the sport, but ESPN does a lot to push the sport into the general psyche of the average sports fan (SportsCenter top plays, the occasional blurb on PTI, etc). Positive or negative, it's out there. Will that continue if ESPN no longer has a stake in the sport's biggest event? Hockey took years to recover from leaving ESPN and it wasn't just the lockout. Yes I know they still have various soccer properties, but I don't want soccer to get frozen out again by such a vital outlet.Fox's treatment of the sport is IMO awful. FSC is one step above public access, and their coverage of the CL final last spring was terrible in its pandering to Joe American Sports Fan (remember the Michael Strahan segment?). ESPN kind of did the same with the 06 world Cup (Dave OBrien anyone?), but they really did a great job this past Cup in presenting the tournament with top notch analysis, commentators etc. Even little things like showing the full anthems treated the Cup with respect. I don't want to lose that either.Another thought: Chuck Blazer was a big proponent of looking out for MLS the last time the WC rights came up for bid. Blazer is now a lame duck on the FIFA ExCo. So who in Zurich is looking out for the US best interests? Who will be in the future? I'm guessing nobody.MLS jumped into bed with NBC. I think they gambled and lost. Tough day for the sport in America IMO
Click to expand...
This was essentially exactly my thoughts on the entire situation. Very well said.
 
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